00:00Well, for more on this story, we're joined by Yossi Mekkelberg, who's an associate fellow with Chatham House's Middle East
00:06and North Africa program.
00:07Thank you very much for being with us on France 24.
00:10We heard then an opening speech from Donald Trump.
00:13It was mostly dedicated to praising those that were present, heads of state that he called friends.
00:19Is this then an attempt to broaden the U.S. sphere of influence, even if Trump did say that he
00:26would try to make a way for the United Nations to remain viable?
00:32Good afternoon. Thank you for having me.
00:35It was a typical Trump speech, which is very difficult to separate between the wheat and the chaff.
00:42But I try to do my best.
00:45There was a lot of self-congratulations and about how great is everything.
00:50But beyond, I think, announcing a $7 billion of aid to Gaza, but this is a drop in the ocean
01:02because we know, according to the UN report, that it will take at least $70 billion to reconstruct Gaza.
01:10But it might be a good start.
01:13I think it's important that, for instance, on the same stage, you have the foreign minister of Israel together with
01:19the leaders of Qatar and Turkey.
01:23But, you know, beyond, again, self-praise, you also hear about very direct threat towards Iran.
01:34So this is something that's a developing story where the negotiations are going.
01:40Is it going to end actually in an agreement or in airstrikes?
01:46And, you know, the direct threat to Hamas, that either it's demobilized and demilitarized or there will be consequences.
01:56You're right in saying we didn't hear any specifics, really, about the kinds of tasks of this Board of Peace
02:02in terms of Gaza.
02:04Is that worrying to you or do you expect the picture to become clearer in time?
02:11I think it's generally administration that is more interested in photo opportunity than in content, definitely when it comes to
02:18the president.
02:20So the question is always what happened behind the scenes.
02:24I think also there was a very dangerous line there.
02:27I wonder if it's kind of been basically improvised or part of the speech about the relations between this Board
02:35of Peace and the United Nations.
02:37Who is in charge of war?
02:38You know, the Board of Peace in principle is any other international arrangement like the G7 or the G20.
02:47It has no international legal basis, unlike the United Nations.
02:53But if what I think, at least what it sounded like, it's actually the Board of Peace will be more
02:59supervising the United Nations.
03:01I think they should share the alarm bells, ring the alarm bells in quite a few capitals.
03:07And I think in this sense, there is no surprise that most European countries are actually not represented.
03:13They don't like the idea of undermining the United Nations.
03:17But also if you see that some of the participants or some of the members of the Board of Peace,
03:23even if they are not here, like Putin, I think bringing them on the Board of Peace while, you know,
03:29committing war crimes, it's very problematic.
03:33But before we could even get to reconstruction in Gaza, presumably, you know, several things need to happen before that.
03:41Hamas needs to disarm Israeli troops to withdraw, more aid needs to enter Gaza.
03:47We're just going to take a listen, if you can bear with us, to some people in the Strip.
03:52They're telling us what they want to see and what they need there.
03:58We hope for the reconstruction of Rafa City and its infrastructure.
04:01Our hospitals, our schools and electricity infrastructure are destroyed.
04:05So we hope for reconstruction in a very quick way.
04:10What are the young people supposed to do?
04:12People like me, we're old.
04:14But how can the young people live in tents like these?
04:16They want to get married and live.
04:18We need reconstruction.
04:19We need to rebuild.
04:23I am 49 years old.
04:24I don't know if I will get to see the reconstruction or if my children will get to see it.
04:30Well, when we listen to that, Yossi Mecklenburg, clearly the needs in Gaza remain enormous.
04:36What is the most urgent in your view?
04:39First of all, to stop the killing.
04:41Though there is a ceasefire going back to October, you know, roughly 600 Palestinians, you know, have been killed since
04:49then.
04:49So it's not the complete end of the fighting there and the airstrike by Israel and other military operations.
05:00So first and foremost, the killing should stop.
05:03Then, you know, to build the international stabilization force, in other words, to have a peacekeeping that separates between Hamas
05:13and Israel.
05:16Yes, the need of the disarming of Hamas, but part of a bigger political move, step towards rebuilding the Palestinian
05:24political polity and the withdrawal of Israel.
05:28Eventually, the withdrawal of Israel from Gaza, Israel still occupies more than 50 percent of Gaza.
05:36Of course, what we see, actually, the pictures now, this is a month's task to rebuild Gaza.
05:45And we already wasted, or the international community wasted six months of doing, improving the situation.
05:53It's not as bad as it used to be, but still falls short of what is needed in terms of
05:59almost every aspect of humanitarian aid and start to rebuild Gaza.
06:06And so do you believe that the Board of Peace or Donald Trump himself can effectively pressure Israeli Prime Minister
06:14Benjamin Netanyahu to get these steps done or to at least put in the Israelis' steps, knowing that the Prime
06:24Minister is now in an election year?
06:26He presumably wants to keep the Israeli far right on his side as well.
06:31I think the honesty is on the American administration, but also the rest of the international community.
06:37But, you know, one of the things that worries me most is that President Trump really believes that the war
06:43is over.
06:44He really believes that he solves already eight wars, and the war is not over.
06:48The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is far from over.
06:52And what you see, this picture from Gaza, you know, this is just the beginning.
06:57It's not the war is not over.
06:59It's a very fragile ceasefire.
07:02And unless, actually, the American administration, the people that work with Trump, the Board of Peace, beyond all these kind
07:10of fancy ceremonies, are actually going to roll their sleeves and ensuring that this ceasefire is sustainable,
07:18that there is a peace cooperation, that the occupation of Gaza comes to an end, that Hamas is not a
07:28threat, not to its own people, not to Israel, rebuilding the Palestinian political system.
07:36I think we will probably, my fear is we'll stay in the same situation.
07:41There will see some drip of humanitarian aid.
07:45Slowly, there will be some of Gaza.
07:47But what it needs is really a concerted effort by the international community and to do it with a sense
07:53of urgency.
07:55Well, let's talk about the National Committee for the Administration of Gaza.
07:58That's that technocratic body that's tasked with overseeing rehabilitation and transitional governance of the Strip.
08:06For now, its members, who are Palestinians from Gaza, are in Cairo.
08:10They lack the tools to get anything done.
08:12Tell us more about the state of play for this body.
08:15And what do we know about their funding, what their tasks are expected to achieve?
08:22I think the key of what you just asked is the fact that they're in Cairo.
08:26You know, the government should be in Gaza, but they are not allowed to be in Gaza.
08:31We actually don't know what their executive powers to run the place.
08:39It's impossible, actually, to run Gaza, while the situation, from a security point of view, is still very dangerous.
08:50And what is the relation between what's supposed to be a government of technocrats and the Board of Peace and
08:58all these kind of mechanisms that were announced, but you don't know what they are going to do?
09:04So, if a government doesn't have authority, doesn't have administration, doesn't have a budget, how it's going to run anything?
09:14So, all what we know is announcing all sorts of mechanisms, administration, but without the needed executive power to make
09:25a difference on the ground, watch the situation on the ground, doesn't create a safe space for this kind of
09:31work to be done.
09:33Well, there's also supposed to be the International Stabilisation Force, which you've mentioned earlier.
09:38We've heard pledges from various players for soldiers for that force.
09:43But again, we don't really have more clarity on when they'll be deployed and how this will work, do we?
09:49And first and foremost, what would be the mandate of this force?
09:54If it's a peacekeeping operation, there is no peace right now to keep.
09:58So, you just put, who knows, thousands of soldiers from countries that don't know the terrain there in the middle
10:06of a very dangerous place.
10:08Or if it's a mandate, you know, kind of chapter seven of the charter, if it's a peace enforcing operation,
10:18is there anyone out there that is actually ready, any country put its soldiers in our way in trying to,
10:26for instance, disarm Hamas, be between, stuck between the Israeli security forces and Hamas and other organizations there?
10:36In order for this, the situation, you know, the political situation needs to change to ensuring that it's a stable,
10:43it's a stable ceasefire with a political horizon.
10:48And then, of course, then the importance of such a force to ensure that there is, you know, a verified
10:55process, but also when needs can enforce the ceasefire.
11:01Yossi Meckleberg from Chatham House's Middle East and North Africa program, it's been very good to have your analysis on
11:06this.
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