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00:00April 18th, 2013, on Comedy Central's World News Headquarters in New York, this is The
00:09Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
00:19Hello, thank you, you're very kind, welcome to The Daily Show.
00:24My name is Jon Stewart, we've got a fine program, my guest, Mark Mazzetti, author of a new book
00:28on the CIA called The Way of the Knife, stunning expose of our nation's top spy chefs, I don't
00:35know what it's about.
00:36As you know, this country has recently suffered horrific incidents from Boston's terrible tragedy,
00:42this explosion that just happened in West Texas, it just, your hearts go out.
00:46And of course, the continuing scourge of gun violence, but along with the terrible stories
00:52are some uplifting stories of so many heroes that have emerged from these tragedies, so
00:56we can take solace that those people are out there and that our nation's leaders are also
01:02on the case.
01:03On Wednesday, the Senate blocked the most far-reaching gun control legislation in two decades.
01:09I'm sorry, did I say on the case?
01:10I meant killing my soul.
01:13Senators voted down an assault weapons ban.
01:15And against an amendment to ban high-capacity magazines.
01:19The amendment which would have dealt with trafficking and strong purchases.
01:23The U.S. Senate has voted down the compromise deal on expanded background checks.
01:28The vote was 54 for the extended background checks, 46 against.
01:37As to that last one, expanding background checks to cover gun show and internet sales.
01:43Only the United States Senate could take something that has 86% support of all Americans.
01:49And an eight-vote majority in the Senate itself as a no.
01:55That's a no.
01:57Did these c*** punters...
02:01I think that's trademarked by Delta Gamma.
02:06Really?
02:07You've already read the internet?
02:09I've got to tell you, the internet moves fast.
02:14Did these guys pass anything of substance?
02:17This amendment will ensure that gun owners across the nation do not have their private gun owner information publicly released.
02:25The yeas are 67.
02:27The nays are 30.
02:28The amendment is agreed to.
02:30Wait, what?
02:30We can't publish where gun owners live.
02:32What am I going to do with my new magazine?
02:35Guns and addresses.
02:37Look, agree or disagree with that provision?
02:42It turns out the only amendment we've been able to constrict in the post-Newtown world is the first.
02:50I find it so incredibly ironic that its proponents think these weapons are a problem in the hands of law
03:00-abiding citizens,
03:02but apparently see no problem with the same weapons being glorified in Hollywood movies and video games,
03:12where the game is interactive, violent, and you are literally shooting at people.
03:18One, in video games, you are not literally shooting at people.
03:24What you're shooting at is a series of zeros and ones that are organized into a two-dimensional representation of
03:28a three-dimensional...
03:32I guess I'm not considering the real-world consequences of checking to see if someone buying a gun on the
03:38internet is a convicted felon
03:40who moderates a Charlie Manson message board.
03:42Hey, guys, come on, let's not get off topic.
03:45You know, you want to talk about live with Kelly and Michael, that's a different board.
03:49Do you got to keep the conversation here Manson-related?
03:53In my opinion, adopting mandatory federal government background checks for purely private transactions between law-abiding citizens
04:02puts us inexorably on the path to a push for a federal register.
04:11But my colleague hasn't detected any move of that as of yet.
04:13It is not currently proposed, but if the bill that is being considered were adopted, it would put us on
04:22that path.
04:27What about the path we are actually on now?
04:31I believe it's at the corner of Carnage Road and Bang Bang Boulevard.
04:36You're saying we can't turn off because the exit ramp might merge into a government registry off-ramp
04:42that could, if you go far enough down and on, I don't know, Stalin Avenue or Hitler Way,
04:49or worse, the LIE, which really, really is bad.
04:57But nothing embodied yesterday's cynical exercise in disingenuous debate more than this next line of argument.
05:05I believe we should not restrict transactions between law-abiding citizens,
05:11especially when we will not prevent such transactions between criminals.
05:16We ought to recognize that we can't legislate away the evil that's about us.
05:22People who steal guns do not submit to background checks.
05:26Right!
05:27But people who steal guns do not submit to our rules about stealing.
05:36But we still have them.
05:42Here's what's so crazy about this.
05:43The people in our country who've spent millions of dollars to get elected to a legislative body
05:54known as the Senate are making the argument
05:58there's really no point in making laws
06:02because criminals are just going to end up breaking them.
06:06Hey, man, let me ask you a question to all the people in the Senate.
06:13Do your doors have locks on them?
06:17Because my guess is most criminals don't go,
06:20Oh, hey, everybody.
06:24The law.
06:28There you go.
06:31And, you know, if these senators were consistent
06:34in their fundamental assertion
06:36that evil cannot be legislated against,
06:40I would disagree with them,
06:42but I don't think I would have the same disdain for them.
06:45Because it turns out there are situations
06:48where the exact same people
06:51are much more willing
06:52to infringe upon constitutional freedoms
06:55through the power of legislation.
06:57We need new techniques
06:59in the wake of 9-11
07:01in order to protect us.
07:03It's very important
07:04that we continue
07:05to give our law enforcement community
07:07every tool they need
07:08to protect Americans.
07:10The authority given to the FBI
07:11is a necessary change in our laws
07:14to combat the war on terror.
07:16The capabilities
07:17it needed
07:18to detect
07:19and deter terrorism
07:20inside our borders.
07:22Important tools
07:23used to investigate
07:24and prevent terrorist attacks.
07:27The president has a responsibility
07:29to use every legal means
07:30available to him
07:31to get intelligence
07:33that he can use
07:34to protect American lives.
07:35That's how we can't legislate even.
07:37I thought that was the whole point,
07:39but I guess terror is different.
07:41I guess it makes sense
07:41because terrorism
07:42has been a much greater threat
07:43to American safety
07:44over all these years.
07:46In the last 30 years,
07:47there have been
07:4730,000 to 40,000 gun deaths
07:50in the United States per year,
07:51more than 900,000 people.
07:53In the last 40 years,
07:55since 1970,
07:55there have been about
07:563,400 terror-related deaths.
07:58A million gun fatalities
08:00in the 33 years since 1980
08:02versus 3,400 terror fatalities
08:05since 1970.
08:0643 years.
08:07Holy s**t.
08:08Well, thank God for Chris Hayes
08:09because I'm not good at math.
08:10I'm so stupid.
08:11I still think 54 votes
08:13is more than 46.
08:14I'm a f*****ing idiot.
08:15But I'm pretty sure
08:17that a million
08:18is more than 3,400.
08:20And yet,
08:20to battle the evil of terror,
08:23we started two wars,
08:24tortured people,
08:24reorganized almost the entire
08:26federal government,
08:27disallowed the air trafficking
08:28of shampoo and conditioner,
08:32and okayed the robot sky-killing
08:34of American citizens
08:35if warranted by someone.
08:39Because one American life
08:41lost to terror is one too many.
08:43Which I agree with.
08:45But it seems to me
08:45we'll move heaven and earth
08:46to do whatever it takes
08:47to prevent weapons
08:48from falling into the hands
08:49of foreigners
08:49who might kill our citizens.
08:51Because apparently we think
08:53killing our citizens
08:54is our job.
09:03welcome back for more on the gun debate.
09:06We're bringing the first part
09:07of the three-part series
09:08with John Oliver.
09:10Yesterday,
09:10Americans watched in shock
09:12as even watered down
09:14gun legislation
09:15died on the floor
09:16of the Senate.
09:16But that is exactly
09:18where it belongs,
09:19according to gun lobbyists
09:20like Philip Van Cleve
09:22of the Virginia
09:22Citizens Defense League.
09:24The Second Amendment
09:25is sacrosanct.
09:27You hold up this sign
09:28whenever I make a suggestion
09:30that you think
09:30is infringing upon
09:32your Second Amendment rights,
09:33okay?
09:33Okay.
09:34Assault weapons ban.
09:36Boom.
09:37There it is.
09:38Increased background checks.
09:40Really?
09:41Yes.
09:41Just for background checks?
09:43We don't do background checks
09:44for the First Amendment.
09:46Okay, so let's just try this one.
09:47Okay.
09:47Nice and easy.
09:48Sure.
09:49A mandatory one-hour waiting period
09:52if you buy a gun.
09:55Why?
09:55Why a mandatory?
09:56Are you f***ing kidding me?
09:58Unless I could see a reason.
10:00No.
10:00I can't think of anything
10:02that I support.
10:03Because at the end of the day,
10:04none of it works.
10:05Exactly.
10:06Gun control does not work.
10:09What if,
10:10hypothetically speaking,
10:12what if gun control could work?
10:14Which obviously it can't.
10:15So we know that it won't.
10:17So that's not a problem.
10:18But what if it could
10:19due to that time that it did?
10:21Okay.
10:21When was that?
10:23Australia.
10:24Yes, Australia.
10:26In 1996,
10:27a conservative prime minister,
10:29John Howard,
10:30instituted sweeping gun control laws
10:32following a mass shooting
10:33that shocked the nation.
10:34So should we be learning
10:36from this effective example?
10:38Of course not.
10:39I guess if we're going to go to Planet X
10:41and say it's not the United States,
10:43it's some other planet,
10:44different people,
10:45different everything.
10:46I don't know.
10:46Yeah.
10:48But in the real world
10:50with human beings,
10:51it's not going to work
10:51and gun control isn't going to work.
10:53Unfortunately,
10:54not only is Australia
10:55actually in the real world,
10:57even their animals
10:58can holster weapons.
10:59So who was right
11:01about gun control?
11:02There was only one way
11:03to find out.
11:04Confront the man responsible.
11:07Mr. Prime Minister,
11:08let's begin
11:08in the formal Australian way.
11:10G'day.
11:11How do you do?
11:14Obviously,
11:14gun control doesn't work.
11:16It can't work.
11:17It will never work.
11:18So how was your scheme
11:19a failure?
11:21Well,
11:22my scheme
11:22was not a failure.
11:23We had a massacre
11:24at a place called
11:25Port Arthur
11:2517 years ago
11:26and there have been
11:27none since.
11:29Zero gun massacres?
11:31Hold on.
11:32Did gun control
11:33actually work?
11:34It stopped one thing.
11:36That could also be
11:37a statistical anomaly.
11:38Yeah.
11:38It was just
11:39their mass shootings
11:41disappeared.
11:41But there were so few of them.
11:43Whoop-dee-doo.
11:44Whoop-dee-doo?
11:45Yeah.
11:46Whoop-dee-doo.
11:47Yes.
11:48Mass shootings were rare
11:49anyhow.
11:50Exactly.
11:51They probably barely
11:52had a massacre
11:53before 1996.
11:55There were about 13
11:56in the previous 18 years.
11:58In the 18 years
11:59before
11:59Port Arthur
12:00there were 13
12:01mass shootings.
12:03Yes.
12:03Almost one a year.
12:04Yes.
12:05I was unaware
12:05they had that many.
12:07Mass being what?
12:08More than two people
12:08at a time?
12:09More than four.
12:10More than four.
12:11Okay.
12:11Whoop-dee-doo.
12:12But perhaps
12:13there were other
12:14non-whoop-dee-doo
12:15side effects.
12:16The homicide rate
12:19involving the use
12:20of guns
12:20has declined
12:21significantly
12:22by factors
12:23of up to
12:2450 and 60 percent.
12:25And the incidence
12:26of youth suicides
12:27involving guns
12:28has declined
12:29dramatically.
12:31Whoop-dee-doo.
12:33Help me out here,
12:34Philip.
12:35Homicides with guns
12:36went down.
12:36Suicide with guns
12:37also went down.
12:39Zero mass shootings.
12:40What did happen
12:41to Australia
12:42still has murders,
12:43rapes and robberies
12:44last I checked.
12:45Unless you can get rid
12:46of 100 percent
12:47of crime,
12:48it's not worth
12:49doing at all.
12:50Well, put it this way.
12:51It's illegal
12:51to have crack cocaine
12:52anywhere in the United States.
12:54Do you think
12:54if somebody really wants it,
12:55they can get their hands
12:56on crack cocaine
12:57in America?
12:58So unless we can
12:59completely get rid
13:00of drugs,
13:01there's no point
13:01in having drug laws
13:02at all.
13:08Let me think about that
13:09for a minute.
13:12Well, I guess effectively
13:15it doesn't work.
13:17You can't argue
13:18with Philip.
13:19Even his logic
13:20is bulletproof.
13:21Well, let me put it
13:22to you this way.
13:23There are more drownings
13:24in backyards
13:25where they have pools.
13:27If they don't have a pool,
13:28there are no drownings
13:29in backyards.
13:29OK, so the U.S.
13:32has a very high
13:32number of guns.
13:33Therefore,
13:34there is going to be
13:35more chances
13:37for somebody
13:38to be killed
13:38with a gun.
13:39Right.
13:41Right.
13:42Right.
13:45That's my point.
13:47Philip might think
13:49that living in a society
13:50with dramatically
13:51reduced gun violence
13:52is a whoop-dee-doo
13:53and people in Australia
13:54couldn't agree
13:55with him more.
13:56Whoop-dee-doo!
13:57What be doing, mate?
13:58Whoop-dee-doo!
14:00Whoop-dee-doo!
14:01But whatever that means...
14:03Whoop-dee-doo!
14:08Tom,
14:08we'll be right back.
14:17We'll be right back
14:17to my guest tonight
14:18at a Pulitzer Prize
14:19winning correspondent
14:19for The New York Times.
14:20His new book is called
14:21The Way of the Knife,
14:22The CIA,
14:23A Secret Army,
14:24and A War at the Ends
14:25of the Earth.
14:25Please welcome
14:26to the program
14:26Mark Mazzetti.
14:27Tom.
14:35So, nice to see you.
14:37This is The Way of the Knife.
14:39It's the CIA
14:41and the secret army,
14:43which I'm guessing
14:44is really not so secret anymore.
14:47Not so much.
14:48How did you get access
14:50to this information?
14:55It was hard.
14:57There were a lot of people
14:58who don't want to talk
15:00and there were sources
15:02that I had spent
15:03a lot of time
15:04working with
15:05over the years
15:06who agreed to talk
15:07for the book.
15:08Did you use enhanced
15:10interrogation techniques?
15:11I didn't need to.
15:12So they gave up
15:13information
15:14just through questioning?
15:16Yes.
15:16Interesting.
15:17Yes.
15:17It worked.
15:20You have a very
15:21interesting story
15:21at the very beginning
15:22of the book
15:22about somebody
15:25who got in some trouble
15:28overseas
15:30and was referred to
15:31by the United States
15:32government
15:32as a diplomat.
15:33That's right.
15:35Turns out
15:35he's not a diplomat.
15:36No.
15:36He wasn't.
15:37He worked for the CIA.
15:39He was a contractor
15:40working for the CIA
15:42and in January 2011
15:44he shot two people
15:45in Lahore, Pakistan
15:47on the street
15:47who he thought
15:48were trying to rob him.
15:49And what happened
15:51after that?
15:51You know the only thing
15:52that stopped
15:53a bad guy
15:54in Lahore, Pakistan
15:55is a good guy
15:56in Lahore, Pakistan.
15:57I don't know if you knew that.
15:58Gun control.
15:59There you go.
16:01He ends up in jail
16:03and what happens
16:05after that
16:05is this weeks
16:06of deliberations
16:07between
16:08inside the Obama administration
16:10about well
16:10whether to own up
16:11to the fact
16:11that he worked
16:12for the CIA
16:12or to continue
16:13calling him a diplomat
16:14and stonewall
16:16the Pakistani government.
16:17In the end
16:19they did say
16:20that he was
16:22working for the CIA
16:22there was a secret deal
16:24that was brokered
16:24and they got him
16:25out of the country
16:26in a hurry
16:27after about
16:28two million dollars
16:28were paid
16:29to the victims
16:30the families of the victims.
16:31Oh that's interesting.
16:32So it was a little bit
16:33of money that went
16:34through there.
16:35How did the CIA
16:38gain this sort of
16:41individualized authority
16:42that even the
16:43Department of Defense
16:43doesn't have
16:44and how did we create
16:45these sort of
16:45two separate systems
16:48for this kind of
16:49overseas
16:50terror fighting?
16:52Well it's
16:52one of the things
16:53they sort of
16:54talk about in the book
16:54is how basically
16:55the CIA started
16:56to look a whole lot
16:57like the military
16:57and the military
16:58is looking a lot
16:59like the CIA.
17:00Basically after 9-11
17:01President Bush
17:02gave the CIA
17:03lethal authority
17:04and basically
17:05wide authority
17:05to go capture
17:06kill people
17:07all around the globe
17:08and this
17:09sets them off
17:11on the beginning
17:12of some of these
17:12secret wars
17:13and it starts out
17:15with a lot of
17:16detentions
17:17and interrogations
17:17and starting
17:19around 2004-2005
17:21it's a whole lot
17:22more drone strikes
17:23targeted killings.
17:24Because they
17:26found out about
17:27the interrogations
17:28and said
17:29we shouldn't
17:30do that.
17:31Well there was
17:31a lot of internal
17:32debate inside the
17:33Bush administration
17:34there was an
17:35internal CIA report
17:36that chronicled
17:37some of the abuses
17:38in the CIA prisons
17:39and obviously
17:41a lot of
17:42congressional
17:42scrutiny of the
17:43program
17:44and so as
17:45that happened
17:45there was
17:47a new strategy
17:48started to evolve
17:49where both
17:49Republicans and
17:50Democrats had
17:51been cheering
17:52some of the
17:53targeted killing
17:53in the drone
17:54strike so it
17:55was something
17:56that was more
17:56politically palatable
17:58in a way.
17:59And it was secret
18:00yet somehow
18:01in the gift shop
18:02of the CIA
18:03this is a secret
18:05program
18:05what were they
18:06selling?
18:07They were selling
18:08golf shirts
18:08with predators
18:10on them.
18:10Predator drones?
18:12Yeah,
18:12predator drones.
18:13Even though that
18:13was a secret
18:14program that
18:15no one was
18:15supposed to know
18:16about.
18:16Well it's a
18:16secret gift shop.
18:19They don't just
18:20let anyone in
18:21but they still
18:21yeah.
18:22I did not realize
18:23that the gift shop
18:24itself was secret.
18:25But where did
18:26you get this daddy?
18:27I cannot tell you.
18:32Have these all
18:33developed with
18:35any oversight
18:36and is there
18:37any conversation
18:38between the
18:38DOD and CIA?
18:41Do you write
18:42that they have
18:42separate kill
18:43lists?
18:44Well so if you
18:45look at Yemen
18:45right now
18:46you have
18:47both the
18:48Pentagon and
18:49the CIA
18:49are running
18:50parallel drone
18:51wars with
18:52separate kill
18:53lists and
18:54under different
18:55authorities.
18:56So for the
18:58and this also
18:59they answer to
19:00different parts
19:00of Congress
19:01who you know
19:03are trying to
19:03do the oversight.
19:04So as an
19:05outsider,
19:05as a reporter
19:06trying to figure
19:06out what is the
19:07difference,
19:07why are there
19:08these parallel
19:09programs is
19:10quite difficult.
19:11And I imagine
19:12there's redundant,
19:12is it like
19:13Glen Gary,
19:13Glen Ross where
19:14they're like,
19:15all right,
19:15you got to
19:16kill more
19:16Pia.
19:17The guy who
19:17comes in second
19:18gets steak
19:18knives,
19:19third,
19:19you're fired.
19:20You know,
19:21are they competing
19:22with each other?
19:23Is there,
19:24it's,
19:25it's,
19:26there's an
19:27acknowledgement
19:27right now I
19:28think in the
19:28administration that
19:29this system
19:30is way too
19:32haphazard.
19:33And that what
19:34has evolved over
19:35the last 11 plus
19:37years has evolved
19:37on the fly.
19:38And they're
19:39trying to work
19:40out some sort
19:40of sort of
19:41rules to sort
19:43of determine
19:44for the future.
19:45And as
19:46President Obama
19:46said on this
19:47show,
19:48you know,
19:48we need rules
19:49to restrain
19:49me and
19:51restrain future
19:51presidents from
19:53being sort of
19:53seduced by
19:54secret war.
19:55Yeah,
19:56that was a
19:56surprising thing
19:57when you said
19:57that.
19:57Stick around
19:58for a little
19:58bit.
19:58We'll talk
19:58about what
19:59happens to
19:59these CIA
20:00programs and
20:01where they go
20:01from here.
20:02The Way of the
20:03Knife,
20:03it's on the
20:03bookshelves right
20:04now.
20:04Mark Mazzetti,
20:05everybody.
20:12That's our show.
20:13Join us next week
20:13at 11.
20:14Here it is.
20:14Your moment is
20:15then.
20:15One of the
20:16things we need
20:17are parents,
20:18parents,
20:19to be more
20:20careful and more
20:21repetitive at
20:22telling their kids
20:23that it is not
20:24right to kill
20:25people.
20:26Richard Engel,
20:27chief foreign
20:28correspondent for
20:28NBC News.
20:29A new Colbert
20:30next.
20:31Ooh,
20:32I'm watching
20:32The Daily Show.
20:33Well,
20:34guess what?
20:34I'm super into
20:35politics, too.
20:36Roe versus Wade,
20:37y'all.
20:38Inside Amy Schumer.
20:39The new series
20:40starts April 30th.
20:41Check it.
20:41Have your breasts
20:42gotten larger?
20:43Yes.
20:44I'm gonna have you
20:45out of here in
20:45no time.
20:46You want me to
20:46press my b-hole
20:47against the window?
20:48You can only
20:48push a ginger so
20:49far before that
20:50ginger's gonna
20:50snap.
20:51Gingers have
20:51stones.
20:52Redemption continues
20:53with new Tosh
20:54Tuesday at 10.
20:55Ginger snap.
20:57On the season
20:58finale of the
20:58Jesselnick Offensive,
20:59I've got Reggie
21:00Watts and Kumail
21:01Nanjiani,
21:01so there goes
21:02your racism theory,
21:03plus Jim Norton
21:04and I bully it up
21:05for a special
21:05sacred cow.
21:06The Jesselnick Offensive
21:07is back with an
21:08all-new episode
21:09Tuesday at 10.30
21:10on Comedy Central.
21:12The mic,
21:13the spotlight,
21:13the works.
21:14Welcome to the
21:15octagon.
21:15Two babies enter,
21:16one baby leaves.
21:18April is stand-up
21:18month on Comedy Central
21:20with hot new specials,
21:21huge events,
21:22and whole new ways
21:22to experience stand-up.
21:24It's gonna be
21:25the best time
21:26ever.
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