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00:00April 20th, 2010.
00:04From Comedy Central's World News Headquarters in New York,
00:08this is The Daily Show with Jon Stewart.
00:20Hey, welcome to The Daily Show.
00:23I am Jon Stewart. Thank you for joining us.
00:25Oh, you're welcome.
00:27Our guest tonight, we've got a great guest tonight.
00:30A young man named Jon O'Hara, he is author of a fascinating book
00:33about a new political movement in this country
00:34called the Tea Party Movement.
00:37I haven't heard anything about it yet, but I'm very excited.
00:40Looking forward to talking with him about it.
00:43Yesterday, I'm having my usual afternoon.
00:47Down at the orphanage, I was making soup and darning clothes.
00:52Fox News is on in the kids' day room, and...
00:55I see this.
00:59Tonight, Stewart slams Fox again.
01:02I've said it before, and I'll say it again.
01:04Go f*** yourselves.
01:06Now, Bernie Goldberg fires back at the funny man.
01:09Don't miss an explosive O'Reilly tonight.
01:13I was like, oh man, that funny man is screwed.
01:16And then I was like, wait, that's me.
01:18I don't want to be fired back at.
01:23You see, funny story.
01:25Last week, I mentioned Fox was upset about the media
01:29generalizing who the Tea Parties are,
01:31and I agree with them.
01:33And I may have at that point then shown
01:35some of the very same people at Fox
01:37giddily generalizing about liberals and the left.
01:40And I might have, when presented
01:43with this rather bald hypocrisy,
01:45I may have told them to go f*** themselves.
01:49And now they want to respond.
01:57All right, what did Bernie Goldberg have to say about me?
02:01So does Stewart have a point here?
02:02Are we being hypocritical by generalizing about some people?
02:06I'll just speak about me.
02:08He does.
02:09I am pleading guilty,
02:11and that's a sincere plea of guilty.
02:14You're welcome.
02:19I win again.
02:20But let me speak directly to Jon Stewart
02:24for just a few seconds,
02:25and I know he watches.
02:26He's a big fan of the show.
02:37Guilty as charged.
02:39I watch it every night with all my friends.
02:41Continue, Mr. Goldberg.
02:51If you just want to be a funny man
02:52who talks to an audience
02:54that will laugh at anything you say,
02:56that's okay with me.
02:58No problem.
02:59But if clearly you want to be a social commentator,
03:01more than just a comedian,
03:03and if you want to be a good one,
03:05you better find some guts.
03:06Okay, two things.
03:16One,
03:17not all of us have your guts, Bernie.
03:20It takes a tough man
03:22to walk into O'Reilly's lion's den
03:24and criticize liberal elites.
03:31And two,
03:32to say that comedians have to decide
03:34whether they're comedians or social commentators,
03:36comedians do social commentary
03:39through comedy.
03:42That's how it's worked for thousands of years.
03:44I have not moved out of the comedian's box
03:47into the news box.
03:49The news box
03:50is moving towards me.
03:53But I assume
03:54I'm just doing
03:57what idiots like me have done
04:00for thousands of years.
04:02But I assume that you have evidence
04:04that I've betrayed my craft.
04:05When you had Frank Rich on your show,
04:07who generalizes all the time
04:10about conservatives and Republicans
04:12being bigots,
04:14you didn't ask him a single tough question.
04:17You gave him a lap dance.
04:18You practically had your tongue down his throat.
04:20Guilty as charged.
04:29Was that televised?
04:32I don't want to say anything,
04:33but Frank Rich hasn't been on the show
04:34since 2006.
04:37I mean, since I gave Frank Rich that lap dance,
04:39I don't know if you noticed,
04:40but I went back in the champagne room
04:41with Bill Kristol like five times.
04:44And if you watch this show,
04:45as it appears you have,
04:46you must remember me and McCain
04:48f***ing like bunnies.
04:50But I guess that's besides the point.
04:53Here's the point.
04:54You can't criticize me
04:56for not being fair and balanced.
04:58That's your slogan.
05:00Which, by the way,
05:03you never follow.
05:05Which brings us back
05:06to the essence of the whole
05:08go f*** yourselves piece.
05:10Guess what?
05:11You're not nearly as edgy
05:13as you think you are.
05:15You're just a safe Jay Leno
05:17with a much smaller audience,
05:19but you get to say
05:20the F-bomb.
05:26Okay, that's going to leave a mark.
05:29Yeah, okay, that one stung.
05:31I'm not going to lie on that one.
05:32I took that one right in the testicles.
05:34That was...
05:36Look, again, two things.
05:38Whoever said I was edgy?
05:39I never said I was edgy.
05:42I never thought I was edgy.
05:43And number two,
05:44if you think I'm Leno
05:45with the F-bomb,
05:46you know less about comedy
05:48than you do about media
05:49and politics.
05:51This is Leno
05:52with the F-bomb.
05:53Look.
05:54I mean, can you f***ing believe this?
05:56It's a f***ing typo.
05:57Seconds, Judge?
05:58What kind of f***ing ass
05:59makes that kind of mistake?
06:02Goddamn f***ing
06:02second f***ing stick?
06:04You hear me with the f***ing
06:05f***ing stick?
06:06I can't tell myself.
06:09Wow, he's so dirty.
06:13No wonder Primetime
06:17couldn't handle him.
06:18You're just a safe
06:19Jay Leno
06:20with a much smaller audience,
06:22but you get to say
06:24the F-bomb,
06:25which gives your incredibly
06:27unsophisticated audience
06:29the illusion.
06:30You're generalizing.
06:31The illusion
06:32that you're courageous
06:33and that you're a renegade,
06:34but it's only an illusion.
06:35Wait, wait!
06:38I'm not a courageous renegade,
06:40but I've always considered myself
06:42the Lorenzo Lamas
06:43of late night.
06:45And as far as my audience
06:47being unsophisticated...
06:48Balderdash!
06:50Wait, I'm sorry.
06:50Who said that?
06:51It is I,
06:52your biggest fan,
06:53Toppington von Monocle.
06:57Unsophisticated?
06:57How dare he!
06:59If I may quote Catallus,
07:01Pedicabo egovas et irremabo.
07:06I'm...
07:06I'm sorry, Mr. Von Monocle.
07:10I don't speak Latin.
07:12It means
07:12I will sodomize you
07:14and face-f*** you.
07:20There we go.
07:24By the way,
07:25I thought my audience
07:26was elitist.
07:28Are they elitist
07:29or unsophisticated?
07:30Or unsophisticated
07:31in their elitism.
07:33Look,
07:34I'm sorry I told you
07:35to go f*** yourself last week.
07:36And that other time,
07:37like six months ago,
07:38I told you to go f*** yourself.
07:39I know that I criticize you
07:41and Fox News a lot,
07:42but only because
07:43you're truly a terrible,
07:44cynical, disingenuous
07:45news organization.
07:46Oh, wait, no.
07:47You know what?
07:48That's...
07:48No.
07:49That's the wrong approach.
07:51That's the wrong approach.
07:53That's not...
07:53I'm not gonna do this.
07:54I'm not gonna be confrontational.
07:55I want to take a minute
07:56to talk directly
07:58to Bernie Goldberg.
08:03Baby,
08:04I don't want to fight, baby.
08:07And I know
08:07you've been hurt before
08:08by them liberal elites.
08:10They done you wrong,
08:11Bernie.
08:13Don't let that
08:14close your heart, brother.
08:16I don't hate you.
08:18I mean,
08:18you're not Dick Morris.
08:19Yeah, what is wrong
08:20with that guy?
08:21Yeah, seriously.
08:23He's starting to look
08:24like that guy
08:25from Men in Black.
08:26Which one?
08:28You know from the first one,
08:29the guy who came down
08:30and walked around
08:31in other people's skin.
08:34A Shalhoum?
08:35You're talking about...
08:35No.
08:37Oh, oh, oh,
08:37the Vincent D'Onofrio guy.
08:39That's the one.
08:40Yeah, that's right.
08:41Okay.
08:41Okay.
08:41You see,
08:46I've learned people
08:48are complicated, Bernie,
08:49and hard to categorize.
08:50I mean,
08:50I've got some
08:51conservative views.
08:52He's a pro-military
08:53mother f***er
08:54piece to the troops.
08:56I've got some
08:57libertarian views.
08:58Legalize it.
08:59Gay marriage.
09:00Uh-huh.
09:00Pot.
09:01Uh-huh.
09:02Gay pot marriage.
09:03Now you make it up.
09:07And I know
09:07that I can be intolerant.
09:09Lactose and otherwise,
09:10don't let this man
09:11eat any blisses.
09:15And I believe
09:16this country
09:16should provide
09:17some kind of
09:17social safety net
09:18for our most
09:18vulnerable citizens.
09:20Communists.
09:23And I also believe
09:24power should be
09:24passed down
09:25to the firstborn
09:25son of the reigning king.
09:27Monarchists.
09:27And I believe
09:28in ghosts.
09:29Boo!
09:31But I will tell you
09:33this, Bernie Goldberg.
09:34Oh, Bernie Goldberg,
09:36I will tell you
09:37this, Bernie Goldberg.
09:39I will tell you
09:40Bernie.
09:41I'll tell you
09:42Bernie.
09:43I'll tell you
09:44Bernie.
09:45I'll tell you
09:46Bernie.
09:47Oh, yeah,
09:47Bernie Goldberg.
09:48You can criticize
09:50my interviews.
09:52They're done.
09:53Yes, they can be.
09:55Please, go here.
09:57That's the editing.
09:59Not funny.
10:00I try to be funny.
10:02Why don't you
10:02watch the movie?
10:03I don't have time
10:04to watch all the
10:04guest movies.
10:05My point is this.
10:07I'm telling you,
10:08Bernie.
10:09He's got a point now.
10:12He's got a point now.
10:14He's got a point now.
10:16He's got a point now.
10:18Bernie Goldberg,
10:19I don't need to
10:19satisfy your version
10:20of what fair satire
10:23is or should be.
10:24He's got a point now.
10:25I'm not fair.
10:26I'm not balanced.
10:27He's unstable.
10:28That's not what I meant.
10:31He's Coco Loco.
10:34You're criticizing me
10:35for not living up
10:36to your tagline.
10:38Oh, Lord.
10:39And you dismiss
10:40any criticism
10:41as further evidence
10:42of how the rest
10:43of the media
10:43persecute you.
10:44You like to pretend,
10:46Bernie Goldberg
10:46and Fox News,
10:47that the relentless
10:48conservative activism
10:49of Fox News
10:50is the equivalent,
10:52oh, the equivalent
10:53of the disorganized
10:55liberal influence
10:56you find on NBC,
10:57ABC, and CBS.
10:59But Fox News,
11:00you may be able
11:02to detect
11:02a liberal pathogen
11:04in their bloodstream,
11:06however faint.
11:09But Fox News
11:09is such a crazy
11:10overreaction
11:11to that perceived threat.
11:14You're like
11:14an autoimmune disorder.
11:17I'm not saying
11:18the virus doesn't exist
11:19in some small quantity,
11:21but you're producing
11:22way too many antibodies.
11:25Fox News,
11:26you're the lupus
11:28of news.
11:33So,
11:34I guess,
11:38I guess what I'm saying
11:39is this.
11:41Go!
11:43As long as
11:44fair and balanced
11:45is how you sell yourselves.
11:48Guess what I'm saying
11:50is this?
11:51Yourself!
11:53Welcome back to the show!
12:21Welcome back to the show.
12:24I really don't know
12:26how musicians do it,
12:27quite frankly.
12:28Perhaps they don't
12:28perform in wool suits.
12:30My guest tonight
12:31is with the Illinois
12:32Policy Institute.
12:33His new book is called
12:34A New American Tea Party,
12:36The Counter-Revolution
12:37Against Bailouts,
12:38Handouts,
12:38Reckless Spending,
12:39and More Taxes.
12:40Please welcome
12:40to the program
12:41John O'Hara!
12:42Sir!
12:50Thank you for joining us.
12:51Thanks for having me.
12:52A new American Tea Party.
12:55I'm going to ask you
12:56a question.
12:56I want an honest answer
12:57off the bat, sir.
12:59And I expect an honest answer.
13:00Are you, sir,
13:02an elderly racist?
13:07Are you going to overthrow
13:09this very government?
13:10No, John.
13:10And it's, you know,
13:12folks laugh,
13:13and it's a good question
13:15because, as you very well know,
13:17the media has a way
13:19of creating
13:19some interesting narratives.
13:22They enjoy conflict.
13:22I think they enjoy
13:23the sensationalized aspects
13:25of things,
13:25so they'll seize on that.
13:27But when I met you,
13:27I was stunned.
13:28How old are you?
13:29I'm 25.
13:31You know, kids today,
13:33you should be out
13:33smoking pot
13:36in a foreigner T-shirt,
13:38quite frankly.
13:40How did this come to pass
13:42that you wrote this book?
13:45Well, I got involved
13:46back last year,
13:48February of last year,
13:49after that famous
13:51Santelli on-air rant
13:53about, you know,
13:55he got up on
13:56the Chicago border trade
13:57and started talking
13:58about the moral hazard
13:59of bailing out
14:01irresponsible corporations.
14:03And a lot of folks,
14:05and he called for a tea party,
14:06and a lot of folks said,
14:07hey, you know,
14:07what if we really got
14:07one of these together?
14:08And a couple friends
14:09and I got on the phone
14:10and said we were going
14:10to be in D.C.
14:12about a week later.
14:13Now, have you found
14:14that it has been infiltrated
14:16you set this up,
14:17you start working
14:18with your friends,
14:18and now do you find
14:19when you go to a meeting,
14:21there's maybe a heavyset guy,
14:23older gentleman in the back,
14:23who's like,
14:24I'm with the GOP.
14:25Come and talk to me.
14:26Because it feels like
14:28either they're trying
14:29to co-opt it
14:30or it's natural brethren.
14:32I think that in many ways,
14:35you know,
14:35the GOP might be
14:36nine times out of ten
14:37the natural vehicle
14:39for some of these ideas,
14:40but the neat thing is,
14:42and we have this
14:42empirical evidence
14:43from a handful of polls
14:44in the last month,
14:45this movement is made up
14:46of Republicans,
14:47Democrats,
14:47and independents.
14:48They're very,
14:50all independently minded.
14:51There's a lot of anger
14:52towards Republicans
14:53and Democrats.
14:54It's really an incumbent.
14:55See, I probably read
14:56the data a little bit.
14:58It feels like
14:59when they talk about it,
15:00it's mostly
15:01very conservative leaning people.
15:03Depending on which poll,
15:05about 58% or so are Republican,
15:06the rest are independent
15:07and Democrats,
15:08which is a far cry
15:09from, you know,
15:10the media narrative
15:11that it's 99% Democrats
15:12or somehow,
15:1399% Republicans
15:14or somehow GOP run.
15:15And when you say conservative,
15:16conservative economically.
15:17I mean,
15:18the concerns...
15:20Have you found
15:20the social views
15:21to be less conservative?
15:22It's very...
15:23I think it's...
15:24No, in terms of
15:25what really drives the movement.
15:25Did you get into this
15:26to get laid?
15:26Is that it, my brother?
15:28Well, we're gonna...
15:30Here's what we're gonna do.
15:31We're gonna take a break.
15:32We're gonna come back.
15:32And then the rubber meets the road.
15:33We are gonna have a confluence,
15:35a political confluence,
15:36where we will come together
15:37and join...
15:45Welcome back.
15:46We're talking with John O'Hara.
15:48He's written a book
15:49called The New American Tea Party.
15:51Here's where I believe
15:52there may be some confluence.
15:54Now, I've read the book.
15:55Progressives and the left
15:56are generally...
15:57Do not come off favorably
15:59in it.
16:01What if we looked at it?
16:02It seems like the big concern
16:03for the Tea Parties
16:04is the protection of liberty.
16:06Would that be accurate?
16:08I think that's a big part of it
16:10is liberty.
16:12But another big part of it
16:13is really...
16:14Is the role of government.
16:15And I think a lot of people feel
16:17in the Tea Party movement,
16:18and this is actually reflected
16:19in the broader public,
16:20that the government
16:21is taking on too much
16:22and doing too much.
16:22Right.
16:24Here's my point.
16:26I believe in the government...
16:28Do you believe the government
16:29is the sole enemy of liberty,
16:32I guess I would say?
16:32No.
16:33In many ways,
16:34the government can be
16:34the protector of liberty,
16:35but there's a role for it.
16:37Look,
16:38this is another big misconception
16:39about the Tea Party.
16:40It's about anti-government.
16:41People believe that
16:42there's a role for government.
16:44It's just what that role should be.
16:45And I think it's a very healthy debate
16:47that we're having.
16:48This is, I think, my point.
16:51I believe the government
16:52can play a role.
16:54I think we've been given
16:55a false choice
16:56between tyranny
16:58and anarchy.
17:02Do you understand
17:02what I'm saying?
17:03Why not try
17:05competent government intervention
17:08as a...
17:11Just to throw it out there.
17:14To see...
17:14Because everybody's comfortable
17:16with them running the military.
17:17Right.
17:18Let's bring the same urgency
17:20to them running other things.
17:23People have been very satisfied
17:24with Medicare over, you know,
17:2660 years is a long time
17:27to last for a program.
17:28Well, and so...
17:28Well, Social Security's bankrupt.
17:30It's essentially a Ponzi scheme.
17:31But it's...
17:32But it's been...
17:33I mean, for a program
17:33to last 70, 80 years
17:35to the great satisfaction
17:36of its citizens,
17:37there's no question
17:38it needs reform.
17:39Right.
17:39But why throw out the baby?
17:41What would you have government do?
17:43Oh, I would have government
17:45do a lot of things it does.
17:46And in fact,
17:46it's not about...
17:48It's not about...
17:49It's not anti-government.
17:51It's that there's a core role
17:51for government.
17:52For example,
17:52let's take the Obamacare debate.
17:53Okay.
17:54No question,
17:55our health care system
17:56needs reform.
17:57The question is,
17:58is putting more power
17:59to the government...
18:00But even that right there,
18:00isn't Obamacare,
18:01by the very nature
18:02of you using the phrase,
18:04derogatory,
18:06rather than saying,
18:07let's talk about
18:07this new health care reform?
18:09Sure.
18:09Well,
18:09that's how it's popular
18:10to discuss,
18:11though.
18:11Well,
18:12let's talk about...
18:12Let's talk about the health care bill.
18:13But you're upset with the way
18:13they popularly discuss
18:14the Tea Party movement.
18:16Well...
18:16Why don't we use
18:17the same rules?
18:18Well,
18:19it's not...
18:20I don't think that's a slam.
18:21It's a moniker
18:21that it's been given
18:22because it was his...
18:24John.
18:25John.
18:27John.
18:28Let's call it health...
18:29Let's call it the health care bill.
18:29Why don't I call it
18:30the tea bagger book?
18:31I don't think it's a slam.
18:33It's not a slam.
18:35It's just something I say.
18:36Well,
18:37what...
18:38John...
18:39One is an obscure
18:40sexual fetish.
18:41The other one
18:41is a guy's name.
18:42Okay,
18:43don't say obscure.
18:46But look,
18:46there's...
18:47There's no question
18:50there's a role of government.
18:51It's what that role should be.
18:52And going to the health care debate,
18:55a lot of people feel that...
18:56Most people feel
18:57that there's a role
18:58for government to help
18:58the poor and disadvantaged
18:59among us get quality access
19:00to health care.
19:01The question is,
19:02is this bill the way to do it?
19:03And a lot of people
19:03feel that it wasn't.
19:04Okay.
19:05And listen,
19:05that sounds perfectly reasonable.
19:06I think part of the problem
19:07is the language
19:08of the discussion
19:09is that it's tyranny.
19:10What I hear a lot
19:11is it's government tyranny,
19:13and I think it's confusing
19:14tyranny with losing an election.
19:16My point of view
19:17was not...
19:17But I don't mean
19:18that disrespectfully.
19:20My point of view
19:21was not represented
19:22over the last eight years.
19:24Bush went to war in Iraq.
19:25I didn't want that.
19:26I didn't think it was tyranny.
19:27I just thought it was a mistake,
19:29and I was hoping
19:30that in the next election
19:31we could change it.
19:32And of course
19:33you had that fringe element
19:34at anti-Bush rallies
19:37calling him...
19:38Would you say, though,
19:39that the tyranny thing,
19:40the undemocratic nature,
19:41I mean,
19:41it's sprinkled throughout
19:42your book as well.
19:43The idea,
19:44in what particular sense?
19:46That his policies
19:47are undemocratic,
19:48that they go against
19:49the will of the people.
19:50Take the health care bill.
19:51The majority of Americans
19:52were opposed to that,
19:53and I think they had...
19:55Most polls
19:56were opposed
19:57to this particular bill.
19:58The majority of Americans
19:59were opposed
20:00to us staying in Iraq.
20:01Him leaving us there
20:02wasn't undemocratic.
20:03You elect a commander-in-chief
20:05for four years.
20:05Oh, sure, of course.
20:06You elect public officials,
20:08and you give them
20:09responsibility to these things.
20:11But I think in many ways
20:11they've sort of...
20:12Many incumbents
20:13have stepped over.
20:14And look,
20:14Republicans and Democrats
20:15do it alike.
20:16I think people felt,
20:18particularly with this bill,
20:18that it was done in a way...
20:20It was very quick.
20:21It was, you know,
20:21we're not...
20:21We'll find out...
20:22Nancy Pelosi...
20:2314 months?
20:24Well, the final version.
20:26Nancy Pelosi said,
20:28we'll find out
20:29what's in it
20:30after it's passed.
20:31It was the longest
20:32throat shove
20:33in the history of throat shoves.
20:35Well, listen,
20:36but here's the thing.
20:38It's a dialogue
20:39that needs to happen
20:40without all those pejoratives
20:42and without all those things.
20:43And I really do appreciate doing it.
20:44And you seem like
20:44a very genuine cat,
20:45a very nice guy.
20:47And I appreciate you
20:48coming out to do it.
20:49And it is...
20:49Listen,
20:49I think it's an interesting read
20:51and read it,
20:52learn about it for yourselves
20:54and separate it.
20:54But I really appreciate
20:55you coming by.
20:56And I'm sorry
20:56we ran out of time
20:57and that I've been sweating
20:58the entire time
20:59I've been talking to you.
20:59Not a problem.
21:00It's a great dance.
21:00All right.
21:01Well, thank you very much.
21:01It's great to see you.
21:02A new American Tea Party.
21:04It's on the bookshelves now.
21:05John O'Hara.
21:10That's our show
21:11doing it tomorrow,
21:129 at 11.
21:12Here it is,
21:12your moment is done.
21:13How can you get
21:14a volcano in Iceland?
21:15Isn't it too...
21:16When you think of a volcano,
21:18you think of like Hawaii
21:19and long words like that.
21:20You don't think of Iceland.
21:21You think it's too cold
21:22to have a volcano there.
21:24But no!
21:24You think it's too cold?
21:26You think it's too cold?
21:27You think it's too cold?
21:27You think it's too cold?
21:28You think it's too cold?
21:29You think it's too cold?
21:29You think it's too cold?
21:30You think it's too cold?
21:30You think it's too cold?
21:31You think it's too cold?
21:31You think it's too cold?
21:32You think it's too cold?
21:33You think it's too cold?
21:33You think it's too cold?
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