- il y a 9 heures
Is the Future of Automotive in Augmented Reality?
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00:02Sous-titrage Société Radio-Canada
00:30...a utopian rather than a dystopian future.
00:34You have an interface now, but it's transient, it can move, it doesn't need to be locked anymore.
00:40And the car is so intelligent that it highlights for you what you normally cannot see.
00:47This means that you show intelligent UI overlaid to the environment.
00:53And that's what Augmented allows you to have that information without looking down, you know, look up, it's around you.
00:58The price of the future is going to be the smart glasses.
01:01Mobility solutions, the surrounding infrastructure in-car experience.
01:08Fantastic stuff. Welcome everyone. Welcome back to the main stage.
01:13It gives me great pleasure today to introduce Peggy Johnson, the CEO of Magic Leap, and Sid Odedra, who's head
01:19of UI and UX at Audi.
01:22And we're going to have a great session talking about their amazing partnership and their vision for what the future
01:27of awesome mobility will look like.
01:31I guess when I first heard that these two were combining, I have to admit, I was a little bit
01:36confused.
01:36I don't immediately think of driving with something on my face unless it's, you know, sunglasses maybe.
01:42So I'd love to know perhaps, Sid, just how your partnership kind of came about.
01:46What was the genesis of this idea?
01:48Sure. Well, over the last, let's say, couple of years, we've showcased what we call a number of spheres.
01:55These are a future where we're looking where cars become more experienced devices than just mobility vehicles.
02:04And as part of that, we have looked at new technologies, where technology is going to go in the future
02:09with things such as automated driving.
02:13And then we think about the value of what people want to do during that time.
02:18And we're currently in the midst of, let's say, a lot of digital information.
02:23And we don't want people to be overloaded.
02:25You know, we don't want to be overloaded.
02:27And so we've thought throughout the spheres and the grand sphere, which you can see on our stand together with
02:34Magic Leap.
02:35Yeah, go visit everybody.
02:36Yeah, please. Just a little plug there.
02:40You can see there's no physical screen.
02:42You know, we wanted to showcase where technology is there when you need it and gone when you don't.
02:47And so we got to the fourth one.
02:50And it's the active sphere.
02:51We just saw it in the film behind us.
02:55It's the ultimate freedom of the active lifestyle.
02:58And here we wanted to reconnect people with nature.
03:01And we wanted to break the physical barrier down between the users, occupants, and the nature around them.
03:08And but we didn't want to take away the digital experience.
03:11So how else can you do that?
03:13And this is where we thought AR or true AR would be the perfect companion on that journey.
03:21And right at the time, I think, the ML2, Magic Leap's awesome device, should I say, was just out.
03:30And as part of the earlier developers' access, we got a glimpse into what that was.
03:37Right.
03:37And so when we delivered this experience, we said we have to make this experienceable.
03:42We have to show that it's not a future that isn't here yet.
03:47You know, it's here today.
03:48And so we showcased that in the active sphere where you could put an ML2 on and actually experience some
03:55of the things you see in that video.
03:56And it's the idea, Sid, that it's kind of like for an off-road vehicle.
04:01Is it the idea that you're kind of traversing through the forest or something and you're driving at the same
04:06time?
04:07Or is it that you kind of stop to take everything in?
04:10I mean, what's the idea?
04:11Or is it a bit of both?
04:12Yeah, I mean, we talk about the duality of the product.
04:15So, you know, you want to drive normally on-road and then you want to shift to an off-road
04:20mode.
04:20And again, AR gives you that ability to shift the information.
04:24You know, you can have the right information, the right place at the right time, rather than everything all at
04:28once.
04:29Right, yeah.
04:29You don't want any distractions when you're in the car, right?
04:32And so, Peggy, tell me about how the partnership came about from your points of view.
04:36Why Audi?
04:38Well, it's interesting because a lot of times, I think, when people hear about augmented reality, they think it's out
04:44in the future.
04:45The headlines suggest that.
04:48And it's not.
04:49It's here now.
04:49So what really attracted us to Audi, and particularly that they're a leading automotive company, was their embrace of augmented
04:57reality,
04:58understanding that the tech is good right now to use in these sorts of use cases.
05:04And so we were thrilled when Audi reached out.
05:08We got together to work on this project.
05:11I would say the technology right now is best suited for enterprise.
05:17And, you know, these sorts of use cases.
05:22And we're just thrilled to be able to have an innovative partner like Audi to share this experience with.
05:30And what does this say about Magic Leap?
05:32Because, obviously, you know, you've been at this for a while.
05:35So what does this represent in terms of the company's evolution?
05:37We have been at this for a while.
05:40It's been over a decade that the company's been around.
05:43I will tell you, augmented reality is very, very complex.
05:47It's very challenging to make, and the company spent years on the R&D around it.
05:53You're basically tricking your eyes into believing there's digital content there.
05:58And this is not pass-through video.
06:00This is your actual physical world that we're putting digital content in.
06:06And so in the driver experience, we're overlaying digital content right onto the physical car.
06:12And it took time.
06:14The company initially started with a consumer focus, but it was probably too early for that.
06:20The devices had to evolve.
06:21We listened.
06:23We learned from Magic Leap 1.
06:24And Magic Leap 2 now is the right device for the right projects and tools needed right now.
06:31And is that how you're kind of approaching other partnerships, too, is kind of, I guess,
06:37like use case first before being a kind of hammer looking for a nail?
06:41Yeah.
06:41We really are showing the technology and saying, what problem are you trying to solve with this?
06:47It's not just about the tech, the field of view, those sorts of things.
06:51It's really, what can you do with this?
06:53And what's the return on investment for this?
06:56And that's where we're focused.
06:58It's largely around training, collaboration, any sort of 3D visualization of data sets.
07:07And something we call remote assist.
07:09So an expert not in the room can walk you through.
07:13It might be a machine that's gone offline or even a surgeon in the operating room who's seen something new.
07:20An expert from across the country can actually see what they're seeing from any device.
07:25And, Sig, can you talk me through the kind of design process when it came to making the active sphere?
07:31Are you kind of starting from the outside?
07:34Sorry, from the inside looking out, looking at the interior as your main focus rather than looking at the exterior?
07:40Yeah, that's one thing.
07:42I mean, we've been quite open about that.
07:44Traditional card design always started the other way, right?
07:47And everyone looks like an exterior and they're like, wow, this is beautiful, right?
07:50And then they get into the interior and then the digital content.
07:54But we're in an era where, you know, digital is so ingrained in our lives that actually it's super important.
08:00And so now we've kind of done a 180 and we start with the user.
08:05Actually, we understand that we want to be more human-centric and understand what people need and want.
08:11And then from that point, you know, we build it out.
08:15And that was the birth of the idea of the active sphere is, you know, the great outdoors reconnecting with
08:21nature,
08:22especially after we've all just been locked away for, you know, however long.
08:26People want to get out.
08:27They want the freedom.
08:29And this gave us the chance of that.
08:30And actually, that was, you know, again, connecting our story with Magic Leap is we wanted to give people freedom,
08:37right?
08:37And that's the value we see technology giving people freedom.
08:40And what true AR really does is it allows us to be free from physical, fixed to physical architecture.
08:47We can now decouple the interface and place it anywhere.
08:52And that was the one opportunity here.
08:54And actually, what worked well, seeing the capabilities and actually being amazed by how capable it is today already,
09:03allowed us to make adjustments.
09:05That's, I think, one of the first times I've seen where instead of just putting information floating anywhere,
09:12we purposefully designed the physical interior there to give the content a stage.
09:17You know, a map has a stage to go on.
09:20And my controls are in a certain place.
09:22They're not just popping up everywhere.
09:24Right.
09:25Was that hard to get buy-in from the rest of the organization that we're going to do it this
09:28way this time around?
09:31I tell you that the turning point was when we put them into an ML2.
09:37We presented this in and everyone was like, okay, this is wild.
09:42Is it too far?
09:43Are people going to be accepting of this?
09:45And then when we put them in an ML2 and did a short demo early on,
09:48they realized that this is, you know, this isn't a future world that won't exist.
09:53It's here now.
09:54Right.
09:54So it had to be seen to be believed.
09:56Yeah, exactly.
09:57Exactly.
09:57And that is it with this technology, right?
09:59You really have to try it to realize how amazing it is.
10:03Is that the kind of hardest thing about marketing magically?
10:06Is that, you know, it is really an experiential thing.
10:09And you have to, you do have to try it to understand what its capabilities are.
10:14It's best experience that way because I think that is what gets the ideas going
10:19as to how it can be used in your own company.
10:21I will say, you know, we had focused on that set of use cases
10:26and then Sid talked about this re-imagining the driver experience
10:30and what goes on in the console where the things you're not,
10:34that aren't needed at the moment just disappear.
10:36And it's an uncluttered view of what can be, you know, a very complex dashboard.
10:45And it all, the technology just seamlessly goes into the background.
10:50It is a completely new experience that, you know, we hadn't imagined before you showed.
10:58I was surprised to see it myself when I saw it.
11:01But you're right, Laura.
11:02It's really best if you can put it on.
11:05We're demoing here on the floor right next to the Audi.
11:08We're right next to each other if you want to come by and see it.
11:12I mean, that's what I was going to ask next, actually,
11:14just like what did surprise you along the way?
11:16And I guess what have you now taken from that
11:20that you're going to build into, you know, future iterations of this
11:23or perhaps future partnerships that, again, only came out of this partnership?
11:27Well, I think we did have that set of use cases
11:30that we knew were resonating in the market.
11:32But what's interesting, if you build a product with a good SDK,
11:36the software developers kit, and then you hand it over to the developers
11:39who are deep into a certain market or discipline or industry,
11:45that is when the real magic, no pun intended, comes to life.
11:50Because there's many things that we haven't even thought about.
11:53I liken it to the mobile phones.
11:56In the beginning, you know, everybody was thrilled about ringtones.
11:59You could download ringtones and we were done.
12:01And look what we're doing with our mobile phones today.
12:04So I have that same sense of excitement
12:07about what the devs are going to develop going forward.
12:10Which I guess is kind of like Apple's approach with the Vision Pro as well, right?
12:13It's like finding the killer app.
12:17How does the Magic Leap proposition kind of differ from what Apple's doing
12:22and perhaps what Meta's doing?
12:23And, you know, are there places where you could even work together?
12:26Yeah, I would say first and foremost,
12:28it's very validating to have both Meta and now Apple
12:32in the mixed reality AR, VR space
12:37because Magic Leap was in this space for a long time, largely alone.
12:42And so it's nice to have others come in.
12:45It's good for everybody.
12:46There's more developers.
12:47There's more interest.
12:49The ecosystem builds.
12:50So all that's been really wonderful.
12:53I will say there's kind of three different types of tech.
12:57There's virtual reality where you put on the device
13:00and you're fully occluded.
13:02You don't see your physical world.
13:04and largely it's an immobile kind of experience
13:07because you don't want to trip over the coffee table.
13:09And that's great for a lot of use cases,
13:12entertainment and gaming and things like that.
13:15Then you have pass-through video,
13:18which is what Apple's device is, Meta's device,
13:22where there's cameras on the front of the device
13:25that are taking a picture of your physical world
13:28and that's what you're seeing.
13:30And they're placing digital content into that.
13:32Ours is true augmented reality
13:35where you are in your physical world.
13:38You actually see everything around you
13:41and we integrate the digital content into that scene.
13:44It's more complex, but it does open up use cases like surgery.
13:48Surgeons are using this in the operating theater
13:51to draw the digital incision line on the actual patient.
13:56And you need high precision there.
13:58that's more of a mobile environment.
14:01And so you want to be able to have no latency in the video.
14:04So that's roughly the three types in this space.
14:06I mean, that's the value we saw as well, right?
14:08That we, you can't unplug the driver from the real world
14:12when there's critical information.
14:14We want to keep, in the same way as the surgeons trying to save lives,
14:17we want to keep people safe, right?
14:19So you should be able to still see what's going on
14:23and put a layer on top of the world rather than unplug people.
14:26That's why I...
14:27And just to comment on that,
14:28I think one thing we're really excited about
14:30is this type of technology is going to give us back our real world view.
14:35Right now, we're always looking at our phone.
14:37Where's my next meeting?
14:39What's the weather like outside?
14:40You can now be back in your real world
14:42with digital technology intelligently placed there.
14:46It doesn't have to be a scramble of everything you've ever wanted to know.
14:50It just is intelligently placed.
14:51The right date at the right time, as Sid always says.
14:55Yes, I won't have to sneakily look down at my questions.
14:58They'll just be there.
14:59Just there.
15:01I wanted to get a sense of what the user feedback has been like so far.
15:06I mean, clearly this is a concept car at the moment.
15:09And how have you kind of iterated and kind of built off the back of that?
15:14I mean, we've had a range.
15:16People who will just see this either online or in the imagery,
15:21they're not fully understanding or they don't fully believe, right?
15:25Of course, you're going to get people saying,
15:26this is more distracting.
15:27Look how much more information you're giving everyone.
15:31But then to the point, the other end of the scale,
15:33when we've presented this in and then we invite people to try it,
15:36they really see the value.
15:38And actually, it's been incredible, the feedback,
15:40especially, you know, of the technology.
15:43But what are people saying?
15:44Like if there was like a word cloud of like the responses,
15:47like what is it that they find so great about it
15:51other than it just being kind of novel?
15:53I think one of the hero moments we have,
15:55a couple of hero moments where we've kind of
15:57looked at the interaction with that information
16:00because I think that still has to be solved.
16:02You know, the pinch to zoom, the slide to unlock for AR.
16:06That hasn't been solved yet.
16:07And we've really looked at how you interact with this content
16:09because, you know, everyone doesn't want to be walking around
16:12and swatting flies, right?
16:14And other people are looking at how you do that with micro gestures.
16:17But the way we approached it, I think what people really,
16:21we got the buy-in is when you have the physical digital combination.
16:26You know, we have a concierge style, we call it,
16:29where you go and get your information physically
16:32and you take that digital information and relocate it.
16:34So you can then, you see the marrying up of the two worlds.
16:38And we have what we call our media player.
16:42It's up in the headliner.
16:42And actually, what we wanted to do is,
16:45when there's things that are so new, especially in technology,
16:47you have to ground it in something familiar
16:50because then you get people to understand.
16:52It becomes more intuitive.
16:53And so we actually looked at how do you select your song?
16:58And, you know, instead of swiping things in the air,
17:01we kind of looked back historically.
17:03I don't know how many people of the next generation know
17:05about going through your LP collection.
17:07and we have this really nice moment
17:09where you're just flicking through and pulling it out.
17:12And you see everyone really, really getting immersed in that.
17:15And that was the moment, I think, in the comments of,
17:18this is super intuitive because it takes them back to a time
17:20where they were just picking the LP out.
17:23Well, still do in my case.
17:24There you go.
17:25Really cool like that.
17:27How long till we get to kind of from concept to reality?
17:30I mean, are we talking, what are we, five years out,
17:3410 years out, 20, or are we sooner than that?
17:36I mean, you see with the technology or the technologies
17:39when you talk about automotive as well as Magic Leap,
17:41it's a lot of it is here today.
17:44For us in automotive, we have a longer lead time.
17:47You know, technology moves quicker.
17:49Everyone gets a new phone every year, almost.
17:52We're three to five years out of time frame.
17:55Obviously, we have to make, there's a lot of safety layers,
17:58more safety layers because there's a lot of, you know,
18:02dangerous situations when you're driving at certain speeds.
18:06But I think there's two kind of key moments,
18:09like we could deliver this, but there's the regulation
18:12has to kind of catch up because it's so new, right?
18:15This technology.
18:16It is, and one thing about this technology
18:19is it's well beyond a mobile phone.
18:22So we have five cameras looking out at your world,
18:26collecting data.
18:27We have four looking back at your eyes.
18:29We need to know where your eyes are
18:30so we can accurately place the digital content.
18:34There's audio sensors.
18:36There's just, it's brimming with sensors.
18:39So when we talk about things like security and privacy,
18:43we've been centered on the user from the start
18:46that that's their data.
18:48They decide when and where their data
18:51is offloaded from the device.
18:53And we're trying to get ahead of that.
18:56I think other technologies have been unleashed
18:58and then we've gone back and regulated them.
19:01Yeah, but the genie's out of the bottle.
19:02Yeah, the genie's out of the bottle.
19:03And sometimes they get over-regulated,
19:05sometimes under-regulated.
19:06We're trying to work with regulators and say,
19:08this is what these devices can do.
19:10This is the type of data that's captured.
19:12These are the guidelines we think are most appropriate.
19:16But as it pertains to automotive,
19:18I mean, could you push, you know,
19:20the fact that it does track the eyes.
19:21So, you know, was this person looking at the road
19:23when they swerved into that tree?
19:25Were they paying attention?
19:26I mean, what kind of things, I mean, you know,
19:28how are you kind of speaking to regulators about this
19:30to get them up to speed, so to speak?
19:32Yeah, some of our best data we've gotten
19:34is from going back to surgeons in the operating room.
19:37If you're a surgeon and you're operating on a patient,
19:40many times the vitals are displayed on a screen,
19:42not of your choice.
19:44It's stuck on the wall in some immobile fashion.
19:47Now the surgeon can stay in the moment,
19:50working on the patient,
19:51and they can display the vitals
19:53wherever is most comfortable for that surgeon.
19:55And I think of the same in the car.
19:58Again, right data, right place, right time,
20:00so that you're not overwhelmed with data,
20:04but you have the right stuff at the right time.
20:06The other thing that we're doing
20:08is we have the ability to dim the background.
20:11So this is actually a light field.
20:13We're injecting light into your physical world,
20:15which is what the content is.
20:17If you want to see that content in better light,
20:21we can actually dim the background
20:24in a segment or in the entire field of view,
20:27almost going in between VR and AR.
20:29Maybe not as a good use case if you're driving,
20:32but if you're stationary
20:33and you want to look through something,
20:36you can do something like that
20:37that helps you, again, cognitively focus
20:40on just one thing rather than an array of data.
20:45And Sid, when you're speaking to regulators
20:48about this type of new technology inside the vehicle,
20:52are you finding there are particular countries, states,
20:57areas, people that are more progressive
20:59and more forward-thinking about this than others?
21:02I mean, in the automotive context,
21:05there already is a slight difference
21:07between regulation in North America,
21:10Europe, and China.
21:11These are the three main areas.
21:15And certain technologies in certain areas,
21:19let's say North America, for example,
21:22are almost a little bit ahead
21:23because the technology in places like Silicon Valley
21:26have proven...
21:27Self-driving cars.
21:27Yeah, exactly.
21:28Exactly.
21:28That is an example.
21:30They understand the technology more
21:31and they have more exposure
21:32to be able to understand
21:35where the regulation comes in.
21:36And that generally is how it cascades across.
21:39So I think with partners like Magic Leap,
21:43there's got to be that area of conversation
21:46about when and where do we use this technology.
21:49I mean, at the beginning,
21:51it would be very non-safety-critical situations, right?
21:55Yeah.
21:56Until we build up...
21:57Yeah.
21:58Reliance on...
21:59And what we're trying to do is, again,
22:00stay ahead of it.
22:01In the healthcare,
22:02we've gotten certified
22:03to bring the device into the operating room.
22:06There's something called IEC 60601 standard.
22:09It's thermal and electrical
22:10is approved to take that on your head
22:14into the operating room.
22:16And whatever comes up in the automotive industry,
22:19we want to stay ahead of that as well
22:20and make sure that we're complying
22:22with those regulations.
22:24We've checked the box on safety regulations,
22:27on some governmental regulations.
22:29So we're trying to make the device
22:31as open but as compliant as possible
22:35so we can reach as many industries.
22:37Of course.
22:37And now, away from the enterprise,
22:41Apple certainly has just really built the hype cycle
22:44around kind of mixed reality
22:45and the idea of even wearing a headset.
22:48At least it's kind of refueled a conversation
22:50that's happened many times before.
22:53But some of the feedback is kind of, you know,
22:56the use case and, you know,
22:59do people want to put something on their heads?
23:01And I've heard that variations of the word,
23:04nerd goggles, nerd helmets, that kind of thing.
23:08So what I wanted to ask you, Peggy,
23:10is how far are we away from kind of mass adoption?
23:13Clearly, the hardware needs to get smaller
23:16and cheaper for more people to be able
23:18to access technology like yours,
23:20like Apple's, less so MetaQuest.
23:24So, yeah, how far are we away from mass adoption
23:26and also kind of shedding that banner
23:28of kind of being a bit nerdy?
23:30Yeah, and I think we're a little bit away from it.
23:33So we've been evolving the product.
23:36Our latest generation's only 250 grams,
23:40like a set of Bose headsets is about what they are.
23:44But we have a separate battery and compute pack
23:48just as Apple showed at their launch as well
23:51because at the stage of the technology right now,
23:55you wouldn't want to put the heat
23:56and the weight on your head.
23:59It shortens the amount of time
24:00that you can wear it for.
24:01It's hot, it's clunky.
24:02That was sort of the bane of earlier devices.
24:07They just couldn't wear them for long.
24:08They bothered your face or nose.
24:10And so we've kept them separate.
24:12I will tell you, it's going to be very similar
24:14to the mobile phone market
24:16as mobile phones were big and heavy in the beginning
24:19and then came down that curve.
24:21The very same thing will happen.
24:23We'll have more silicon integration.
24:26We'll reduce the components.
24:28The batteries will be better capable
24:30to go into a device that I think
24:33for mass adoption looks like a set of glasses.
24:36That's what's acceptable to people today.
24:39And I think that's where we need to be
24:41in order for it to go widely into the consumer space.
24:44But the technology today
24:46is great for these sorts of use cases.
24:48And with that in mind,
24:50please go and visit the Magic Leap and Audi strands
24:52and try all this technology for yourselves.
24:54If you'd like to give a big round of applause
24:56to Peggy and to Sid.
24:58Thank you.
24:58Thank you, John.
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