- 3 months ago
Carbon Reduction or Carbon Capture
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00:00Bonjour, tout le monde. Je vois que vous puissiez tout en maintenant.
00:05Je suis très heureux de voir ce type de crowd.
00:08Je m'appelle Florent Andréon, je suis le chef de climat tech services
00:12sur Capgemini.
00:13Je suis très heureux de présenter ce panel aujourd'hui
00:17sur un très complexe mais un très important topic
00:21sur le balance entre carbon capture,
00:24carbon reduction et carbon removals.
00:27Nous avons un fantastique panel aujourd'hui.
00:30Je suis très heureux d'avoir un grand paneliste
00:34qui je vais vous présenter rapidement.
00:37Je vais commencer par vous, Loubomila.
00:40Vous ĂŞtes le co-founder de Plan A,
00:43une plateforme carbon accounting software
00:46qui aide les entreprises Ă managez leurs Ă©missions,
00:50à monitorer leurs plans pour réduire leurs émissions.
00:54Bienvenue.
00:56Nous avons Luna Schmid,
00:58votre partenaire Ă Google Ventures.
01:02Google Ventures a plus de 10 millions d'assets
01:05under management,
01:06et 400 active portfolios
01:08globalement, en Nord-Amérique et en Europe.
01:11et vous ĂŞtes un early stage investor.
01:15C'est une bonne transition Ă Marta
01:17parce que vous connaissez bien les autres.
01:19Marta, vous ĂŞtes le CEO et le co-founder
01:22de Curate.
01:24Curate est une plateforme de marketing,
01:28si je le dis,
01:28qui est focussé sur accélératement
01:30accélératement à une solution reliable
01:32carbon removal.
01:34Et Julie, Julie Kitscher,
01:36vous ĂŞtes le Chief Sustainability Officer
01:39et Communication Ă Airbus.
01:41Je pense que vous connaissez
01:43l'Airbus
01:44qui est le plus grand nombre de planes
01:47mais vous ĂŞtes aussi
01:48une compagnie tech et innovation.
01:51Et Julie, vous avez le challenge
01:52de décarbonisation et sustainability
01:56Ă Airbus.
01:57Merci beaucoup.
02:00Je voudrais commencer par
02:02d'abord sur la scène.
02:05Il ne doit pas vraiment être questionné,
02:08mais il y a fait, il y a.
02:09Parce que si vous Ă©coutez
02:10l'IPCC,
02:12l'IPCC a fait clair
02:13que décarbonisation
02:15est la plus importante
02:16Ă la changement
02:18et réduire l'émission
02:21de la mise en place
02:23et la meilleure
02:23et la meilleure
02:23effective
02:24Ă faire.
02:26Mais nous aussi
02:28nous entendons beaucoup
02:29de la réduction
02:29de la réduction
02:30de la réduction
02:32de la réduction
02:32de la réduction
02:32de la réduction
02:34de la réduction.
02:36Mais il y a probablement
02:38une erreur
02:38quand nous parlons
02:39de la réduction
02:40de la réduction
02:40parce que je crois
02:42et c'est probablement
02:44quelque chose
02:44que vous vous répondez,
02:45nous avons
02:46confusé l'inventory
02:48et le flow.
02:49l'inventory,
02:50meaning que
02:51la réduction
02:52des flots
02:53de la réduction
02:53de la réduction
02:54des gaz Ă©missions
02:55et l'impact
02:58de la réduction
02:58Ă l'impact
02:59des gaz Ă l'impacte
03:00les systèmes.
03:01Et quand vous parlez
03:03de la réduction
03:03de la réduction
03:04du gaz Ă l'Ă©liminer,
03:04vous parlez de la réduction
03:08de la réduction
03:08de la réduction
03:08et de l'on s'enlève
03:09et de l'enlève de l'éliminer.
03:10L'IPCC
03:11est aussi
03:11des recommandations
03:13sur la durée
03:15du gaz Ă l'Ă©liminer
03:17du gaz Ă l'Ă©liminer,
03:17il doit ĂŞtre
03:17at least a century which is not an easy task so we need to do both we need to
03:24reduce our emission drastically but we also need to work on our emission
03:27because the IPC says that we will need them to deliver our promise but removal
03:33are still a very new industry so there's a bit a lot of work still to
03:40be done to to make this technology available and to reduce those costs so
03:45it's a marathon it's not absolutely not a sprint I'd like to start with you
03:51Lubomila when we prepared the session you had a strong point about the fact
03:57that we are absolutely not at the right pace on reducing emission and the
04:02balance between reduction and removals needs to be considered from a stand
04:08view of speed of reducing emission can you elaborate a bit on your vision
04:12thank you so much so we've been working for the last eight years with planning
04:18with more than 1,500 companies of the likes of BMW KFC Chloe also financial
04:25institutions like Visa Deutsche Bank BMP and the sad reality when you draw the line
04:31is that especially in the industries that are heavily dependent on natural
04:35resources you are looking at extensive overproduction that is costing a lot of
04:42money for the product to come to market to be marketed to result ultimately
04:48leading to a lot of loss of potential revenue that also is leading to
04:52environmental I would say decay so when we were preparing for the discussion I was
05:01elaborating on the fact that offsetting has become quite prominent in the
05:06discussions in the last few years and I'm sure that there's plenty of supporters of
05:10this possible solution but when you look into the statistics you actually need to
05:16understand that the most effective and important way for us to look at stable
05:22economy stable planet from a health perspective that doesn't continuously see
05:26increase in scale and also speed of natural disasters is heavily dependent on reducing the
05:34negative impacts that we have that means also eliminating any obsolete activities from our
05:40economic contributions to any kind of industry that we work on
05:46thank you now over to usually I think that's also music to your ears because when we spoke a bit
05:52before you say that's in your plan that's you are mitigating both you're taking both levels can you
06:01explain to us how a large corporation like Airbus which is at the center of the economy in terms of
06:09moving people and goods how are you balancing reduction and removals in your net zero strategy
06:15absolutely with pleasure so hi everybody really happy to be here with you today and first I'm just going to
06:22jump on what you said we're known as the world's largest aviation or aircraft manufacturer but we're really a tech
06:29company
06:30we build aircraft helicopters satellite systems defense and security systems and actually just to just to try and put it
06:40into context we generate 400 terabytes of data an hour with our aircraft fleet flying today so that's the sensors
06:51that are on the aircraft so we learn an awful lot obviously through that tech and data
06:58when you look at the social and economic contribution and we talk about aviation in particular that it brings I
07:07think it's so important to just stop and remember the value that aviation brings it gets a bad rap sometimes
07:16in terms of CO2 emissions but 88 million jobs worldwide are supported by the aviation industry
07:25the contribution to global GDP 3.5 trillion dollars that's more than 4% of the world's GDP coming from
07:36the aviation sector so we believe that's worth fighting for and so for us tackling the 2 to 3%
07:44of the world's CO2 emissions that come from the sector are an absolute priority for us and so we're working
07:52on all levers essentially beginning
07:55beginning of course with avoidance of course with avoidance and reduction of CO2 we include carbon removals of course but
08:04we don't believe carbon removals are an opportunity to continue to emit we believe it's an incremental element of our
08:14decarbonization journey and so we're looking really first and foremost at that avoidance and reduction and it's really all about
08:23technology
08:23technology it's technology on our aircraft so today's aircraft if you introduce a new aircraft a current aircraft into the
08:32fleet you can reduce CO2 emissions by 25% with the introduction of a new aircraft in the fleet depending
08:41on the aircraft that you replace and of course we're working on incremental technology improvements conventional technology on wings on
08:51engine improvements
08:52so wings for aerodynamics of course on lighter materials to be able to increase and enhance that technological step in
09:02the next decade and we're looking at incremental technology because frankly the ultimate goal is to have an aircraft that
09:12doesn't emit CO2 at the tailpipe and that's where our hydrogen development technologies come in
09:18so it's about technology on the aircraft so it's about technology on the aircraft and a global energy transition so
09:24technology for fuel today we use fossil fuel which emits CO2 into the atmosphere actually our aircraft can fly with
09:36biofuels today so sustainable aviation fuel and that reduces
09:42the CO2 emissions by 80% on a life cycle basis the CO2 emissions by 80% on a life
09:47cycle basis the reality is we don't have sustainable aviation fuels at scale available today so we're working extensively for
09:55that and at the same time direct air carbon capture can be used to create e-fuels or synthetic fuels
10:04if you like and they will bring a 90% reduction of CO2 emissions
10:10so we're working on carbon removals to be able to stimulate that sustainable aviation fuel market as well and obviously
10:20the carbon capture for our own compensation of residual emissions in our own manufacturing footprint starting with obviously nature based
10:29and that means reforestation for example until the technology is available and then using carbon removals at scale
10:37because we've been emitting CO2 because we've been emitting CO2 because we've been emitting CO2 for decades now it's time
10:42to start permanently removing it from the atmosphere so we believe really in technology as the solution
10:49Thank you. Marta, you are at your right focusing really on carbon removals. We understand that carbon reduction is coming
10:59from what all companies can do to reduce their own emissions, switch technology, shift their business model
11:04But when it comes to removal, there's a whole array of technology, it can be a nature based solution, technology
11:11based solution and there's a whole of, there's a lot of buzz and probably confusion
11:16Some are attracting a lot of criticism because they cost a lot and they are not ready yet
11:22Nevertheless, there is the objective to reach a gigaton of removals by 2050 or even before
11:32Can you help us navigate a bit across a different solution and and shed light on what are the most
11:38promising ones?
11:39Of course, I would love to and I think I was just reflecting on the title of our panel which
11:44is carbon reductions or carbon removal and I very much think it should be carbon reductions and carbon removal
11:51Because the definition of net zero as aligned with SBTI the science based target initiative is reduce your emissions by
11:5990% and remove the residual emissions in a durable quality way and the removing emissions in a durable quality
12:06way is where curate my company comes in
12:08Just before I talk about removal, I'd like to very quickly clarify the difference between a carbon removal and a
12:14carbon offset
12:15Which is what I suppose many of the people in this room would know
12:18So offsets have been around for about 25 years and most prominently there would be credits to protect nature
12:26So this would be protecting forests from being chopped down
12:29Very important work
12:31Or it would be avoidance credits. So for instance paying for cook stove projects or moving to solar again important
12:38activity important climate action
12:41Traditionally costing between two dollars and five dollars
12:44The two challenges are if I emit a ton of carbon and I pay somebody else to protect a ton
12:50of carbon from not being emitted
12:52There is still a ton of carbon in the atmosphere
12:54The reason why I quit my job and started curate was because the promise of being able to say I
13:00emitted a ton of carbon and I cannot reduce it
13:03I've done everything I could to reduce
13:04But this is the bit that I can't and now I can actively sequester it
13:08So what goes up comes down is the really exciting thing now you have alluded to
13:13The challenge that carbon removal is indeed often nascent. It's not very available
13:19We need actually 10 gigatons of carbon removal by 2050 and a gigaton by 2030
13:24So it's an unsurmountable task
13:26It's the space race of the 21st industry
13:28Which is fantastic that it's attracting all the talent and attention that it is right now
13:33So again as aligned with the with the best sort of rule setting alongside others the oxford offsetting principles that
13:40just had the revised version
13:42Released a few months ago
13:44We need to be encouraging organizations to for their residual emissions
13:48And by the way in the vast majority of cases companies are going to find it much cheaper and effective
13:53To reduce emissions rather than buy carbon removal
13:56So the argument of don't buy carbon removal because it's a get-out-of-jail-free card
14:00Well, every CFO will tell you this stuff is too expensive
14:03The average cost is about two hundred dollars in a blended portfolio
14:06So of the methods that are available
14:08We have the high biodiversity and social co-benefits nature-based solutions that are less durable often 25 years 50
14:18Under 100 and this would be your afforestation reforestation
14:22Or soil carbon although I have to say there are some amazing technological advancements
14:27That are improving the measurement reporting and verification of these methods
14:30So we can actually certify these credits for longer or we can prove that it's not just
14:35Working with the soils in a particular way to store carbon
14:39But also it's turning organic carbon into inorganic carbon that cannot be reuptaken
14:43So fantastic innovations in this space
14:45And then you have methods like biochar
14:48So building a burning biomass in low oxygen environments to turn
14:51Turn it into this really carbon-rich charcoal
14:54You can do enhanced rock weathering where you spread silicate rock over the fields
14:58And it speeds up a naturally occurring process of weathering the rock
15:03It retains carbon, but also in many places, especially for instance on tests done in Kenya
15:08It can really improve the pH of the soil and maximally
15:13Improve yields on the farms. So there are additional co-benefits
15:16And then there are things like direct air capture that probably all of you have heard about
15:20From suppliers such as Climework's current current capacity 36 000 tons a year
15:26It's nascent. It's exciting, but we need more
15:28Or blue carbon. So storing carbon in the ocean. Now what we do is we build portfolios
15:33And the reason why we do that is we say every single method of carbon removal
15:38Is needed needs more attention more innovation more scale
15:43We know that not a single method of carbon removal we know today will scale to the 10 gigatons we
15:47know
15:48So all of them need to be invested in at a blended price with a maximum durability
15:53And the co-benefits and biodiversity co-benefits that we talked about
15:58So when I hear that I I turn to you Luna because Google Venture you are
16:03Investing in deep tech
16:05And more generally we would expect Google Venture to be investing in AI related solutions etc
16:09But you're also an investor in Curate. Can you explain as an investor how you see this carbon removal market?
16:16Yeah, I think the other panelists have done a really good job of explaining how we see the market
16:22Which is first a corporate needs to quantify how much they're emitting
16:26Then they need to reduce as much as they can and then the next part of the equation is removals
16:31And so we made an investment in a company called scope 3 in New York that works on sort of
16:36the accounting and the reducing side
16:38Creates playbooks for digital media players
16:41And then we made an investor
16:43Investment in curate on the removal side and so I actually you can probably tell from my accent
16:49I come from the us where there's actually a lot of backlash on greenwashing and things like that
16:54And when I moved over to the uk one of the big things that I looked at was where there
16:59was actually opportunity to make
17:01Investments where european companies would win and this was an area where we felt strongly that this would happen
17:06So in the us again, there's a lot of backlash a lot of it has been because of additionality because
17:13of
17:14Double counting of credits a credit can be sold multiple times. There's not a lot of regulation in the space
17:20Permanence, you know a tree can be planted who knows what happens to it. We have no tracking of it
17:25There's a lot of reasons why a lot of the backlash in the us is deserved
17:29But a lot of reasons also and I think we're going to talk about this in a little bit
17:33Why europe and the uk have done a much better job of regulating?
17:37And sort of forcing corporates to take a deeper look
17:40I think airbus has done a great job of looking at it proactively, but not everyone has
17:44And so we think that the market in europe and in the uk is really interesting on the carbon removal
17:50side
17:50And where we play as gv is we spent a lot of time looking at the software and the financial
17:56technology layer
17:57And to marta's point one of the things that got us really excited about curate
18:02And I think marta maybe hasn't done a great job selling herself and her co-founder
18:05But we love the combination of marta's um deep technology experience
18:10She's a multi-time founder with our co-founder gabriel who's one of the leading thinkers in the space
18:15So she has a ngo called rethinking removals
18:18She's a phd in natural sciences, and so I think you need that combination you need the
18:23Tech mentality of building for an industry
18:26But you also need a lot of that legitimacy that someone like a gabriel brings
18:30And so that's what got us really excited to back curate at the earliest stages
18:34So there's a market uh that's a market clearly uh uh which is emerging
18:39Uh if if we look a bit at the at the challenge and the risk we and we've discussed it
18:44a bit
18:44At capgemini we have our own strategy so cbt strategy and there's your plan
18:49And so we are doing everything we can to reduce our emission
18:51But we know it's not enough so we're also looking at compensation
18:56Can you help us to bobila because that's what you're doing for many of our customers
19:00Explain how your company and how you see the balance between
19:07Those or those reduction and your movement what are the steps that the company needs to do to clarify a
19:13bit this balance
19:15I think it's really important to pride ourselves on the technological advancements associated to carbon removal
19:21But being uh realist about all the statistics that are out there and also what's been going on
19:29In the last few months
19:31Even in european cities where natural disasters are now seen on daily basis
19:37I want to maybe kick off responding to this question with three statistics
19:40So um
19:42First of all we were expected to reduce our emissions by seven percent on a yearly basis
19:48By 2030 if we wanted to stay around 1.5 degrees celsius
19:55The only year when we were able to get to that point was covet and that was 2021
20:00After that we've been on a steep journey upwards and ultimately that has resulted in of course increase in emissions
20:08The second statistic that came out yesterday and we were talking even with julie inside
20:12Uh, the room there came out of a research that was assessing what will be the impact on the economy
20:19in the next few years up until
20:212100 we're talking about 50 percent reduction in gdp
20:25Because of climate change
20:27And the final statistic is that we at 55 zero which is non digestible by
20:35Any economy at this point of time when the economic situation is not stable anywhere
20:40And the final statistic is something that we've been tracking with plan a because we have a big scientific team
20:45in-house is that
20:45There's 600 percent increase in climate risk related costs
20:49Which at the moment are paid by governments
20:52insurers banks and every single one of us and also the businesses that we manage
20:58So while I and maybe a final one to be even more dramatic not to go against the work of
21:04carbon removal companies, but
21:06Just to give a reality check of where we're standing
21:09In terms of development at the moment some of the biggest facilities for climate removal for carbon removal are at
21:16the capacity of a few thousand cars
21:18India last year introduced 1 million cars on the road so
21:23Obviously we'll need to be looking at reduction first before anything else
21:28So to respond to the question how does it work actually to be able to reduce emissions?
21:34In a complex setup where you're looking into a lot of raw materials
21:39a lot of investments if your financial institution or dependencies of different stakeholders like suppliers
21:45We've been looking at this cohort of 1500 companies and obviously the first step is extensive data gathering
21:51When data is missing you can also model it. We have a lot of predictive capabilities
21:57For companies like kfc. We're assessing millions of data points a month
22:01And when data is missing for particular geographies, we essentially give them a clue
22:05There's like hundreds of people collaborating on our platform to be able to decarbonize and track all the projects
22:10That are associated to changing materials and change in all the processes
22:16And what this essentially leads into is like a really practical guide of the to-do's that you need to
22:22implement
22:23I'm really proud actually to be able today to announce that planner is launching a new product
22:28And this is happening today. We're launching a marketplace with more than 5 000 solutions for alternatives for materials, processes,
22:36energy
22:37For any company that needs to switch to the sustainable option
22:41No offsets pure focus on really this
22:44Physical side of the problem that we're solving that we know is really heavy lifting for procurement teams esg teams
22:51sustainability teams
22:53To finish off alongside of this maybe just to explain why we even made the choice of financing this today
22:58and building this marketplace
23:01For companies that really want to be able to hit their targets
23:05It is
23:07Incredibly complex to understand how to engage educate and get everyone on the same journey at the same pace
23:14We have been assessing all of these companies and our preferences for companies that are with the most complex challenges
23:21And with this in mind, we truly believe that everyone that is sitting here on this panel
23:27has a part to play, but we need to do this simultaneously
23:32When I listen to you, sorry go ahead Julie
23:35No, no, I was just going to agree
23:36It doesn't work
23:37I don't know
23:40Actually I was handing over to Julie because the the statistics you are giving and gave a little bit
23:49The level to which we need to raise our ambition and action and I would say it's a bit
23:55When I look at what you are doing at Airbus everything everywhere all at once
24:00Because
24:01The more we delay our action on reduction the more we will need removals
24:06So maybe having your view
24:08Julie on as well, how do you
24:11Overcome the operational challenges in delivering such an ambitious plan and doing reduction at the same time, but also looking
24:19after removal
24:20So thanks for the question first congratulations on the new product and I'll talk about that afterwards if I get
24:27the chance
24:29So just to just to answer the question
24:31I think it's really important to understand that there is not one single solution to this decarbonization challenge
24:40We don't want to leave any stone unturned
24:43We truly believe and I said it at the beginning technology is the key
24:48To solving the this global challenge, but it really needs a basket of measures
24:55If you like so we're looking at
24:57Obviously the the technological
25:00Leap we're looking at working with partners. We need to partner
25:05There's not one single company or government that can solve this global challenge
25:10It's going to require unprecedented collaboration
25:13Coordination
25:15And we need to work on scale
25:17So there are four
25:19Direct air carbon capture plants in operation today
25:24Globally that can manage 1 000 tons per annum
25:27We're way away from the jigger tons that we were talking about
25:31So how do we scale?
25:34To scale we need substantial investment
25:36We need substantial technology
25:38And so partnering we believe is really the the best way to do that
25:43And from an operational challenge perspective
25:47It's really about looking at numerous
25:50options and projects, but it's really about the regulatory system
25:56ensuring that there's a clear monitoring
25:59Reporting
26:00Reporting system with respect to permanent carbon removal
26:04Because it may only be six to eight percent of our decarbonization roadmap
26:11as a as a sector that the aviation sector
26:13But it's still a substantial proportion because we won't get to net zero 2050
26:19without those six to eight percent
26:21So we need to work on that too
26:24And I would say we really need to work on
26:29I'm a finance
26:30I'm a finance professional by background
26:34And I I mean the the financial accounting system as we know it today
26:39has been it's evolved over thousands of years starting from bartering
26:46What we need
26:47is the equivalent in terms of carbon accounting that's recognized on a global scale
26:53Because let's face it
26:56When we're talking about co2
26:59We're talking about global co2
27:01We cannot define co2 emissions per country to remove
27:08Yet all of the policy so far and it's great to see how much is evolving
27:13But the policy is really being built on a national level
27:18So we're trying to tackle an issue with no borders
27:22With a world full of borders
27:25And so how do we break that and from an aviation perspective
27:29That's precisely why we use
27:33ICAO which is the industry body
27:35As the reference
27:38And so we're working with ICAO now to try and define clear guidelines for carbon removals
27:44Just as we've worked with them to define clear guidelines on the use of sustainable aviation fuel
27:51The the references with respect to co2 emissions with respect to noise
27:57So it's really about how do we create a collective regulatory policy
28:04For a global industry using all of the levers that we've described
28:08And yes carbon removal is a key one
28:13Martha on carbon removal you told us that one of the main challenges is trust
28:18It's lack of trust on removals
28:20The figures that that you gave show that technology is not yet there
28:24So we need to trust the engineers the innovator that they will be able to scale those technologies to improve
28:31it
28:31We need a lot of money. So the financial institution need to trust those companies that they will be able
28:36to scan
28:37How do we bring more trust on this on this topic?
28:42This is probably the most important question. So thank you. Thank you for asking it
28:46And I suppose the most important thing to say is fortunately, we don't just have to trust on face value
28:51Because the same way that investors or buyers carry out very thorough due diligence on anything that they invest in
28:59or buy
28:59The same way that Lubomila and Plan A
29:01You know looked into all of these decarbonization methods that they'll now have on their marketplace
29:06Every organization like curate will look very very carefully at every carbon removal project and scrutinize it heavily
29:13So as luna mentioned before my co-founder dr. Gabriel walker is one of the preeminent scientists that has been
29:19working on climate change for the last 30 years
29:21And has worked with all of the global rule setters the
29:25SBTI the icvcm the integrity council for the voluntary carbon market with the vcmi the voluntary carbon markets initiative
29:32There is a number of organizations right now
29:34And indeed there is a very important point that julie made around how to work
29:39Internationally in the world with borders. There are international ngos that are looking at regulating and setting
29:45Definitions of what good looks like
29:47So for us we've built our proprietary due diligence process
29:51Which basically builds on years and years on gabriel's work
29:55To review quality of carbon removal projects that we buy from
30:00We're looking at over 170
30:03sub factors across five categories the impact integrity
30:08Delivery risk future potential and beyond carbon qualities of every project we have different theses per method
30:16It takes a very different set of data and skills to review a project that is a soil carbon in
30:22Uganda or direct their capture in the u.s
30:26We're
30:28augmenting the work of our scientists with
30:30Technology we're building on generative ai to be able to ingest more documents and more data
30:36And to be able to not only review the quality of a credit at the point at which we're sourcing
30:40it
30:41But also if it's carbon removal that will be delivered in the future
30:44And this is a really important point to make about 94 of the carbon removal market right now are credits
30:50that will be delivered in the future
30:52It's the carbon
30:53Director capture plants that have not yet been built
30:56It's the new projects of enhanced rock weathering that will deliver carbon over a seven eight year period starting now
31:02So we need to on an ongoing basis monitor whether
31:05The producers are doing the right thing whether it's going well enough how the science is being updated
31:10so we're into we're investing a lot of
31:14Ultimately, you know money into the technology innovation to be able to review it on an ongoing basis
31:19And there are increasingly ways in which we can
31:23Act if things go wrong
31:24This is why we only sell portfolios because we're saying if you buy a ton of carbon from curate
31:29It's going to have a number of different carbon removal projects underneath if it was to happen that one of
31:33these projects under delivers
31:34We can swap it out for a different one and a company can still make a confident claim that they
31:40removed a ton of carbon with a certain durability
31:42And that also allows us to move from using predominantly what's available today
31:47Which is largely nature-based solutions that have that are available in the market to align with sbti and aligned
31:53with oxford upsetting principles
31:54The glide path to predominantly long durability permanent solutions that the market is currently delivering
32:01The last thing I would say is how do we generate trust?
32:04It's actually working with large organizations that carry that trust
32:09So when Microsoft, Google, Airbus, Amazon make massive investments into carbon removal
32:16The world assumes and rightly that these organizations that are publicly listed and scrutinized every each way
32:24Have done their due diligence to invest in the right projects
32:27And we have also been working with what we call marquee clients
32:29We removed carbon from the funeral of Her Majesty the Queen Elizabeth
32:34We did the world's first carbon removed concerts where we added a levy for carbon removal onto the ticket price
32:41To make concert goers in London aware of carbon removal
32:44We've worked with the London Marathon
32:46So we're also doing things to partner with brands that carry the trust
32:50But also to raise awareness of carbon removal as a new category
32:53To stimulate the investment that we need to get the technology and the scale and the availability of source that
32:59we need
32:59That's where I see similarities between what you were explaining
33:03I'm bringing transparency gathering data and routing everything in science
33:08Different timelines
33:09Different timelines
33:11Maybe over to you Luna
33:14You're an investor so you're also looking at the maturity of the technology
33:18How do we make sure that those carbon removal technologies
33:22Which we mentioned already some of them are not yet mature
33:25Are going beyond the lab are going beyond the first of a kind which the scale is not sufficient enough?
33:32Yeah, thanks for the question. I'm also a
33:35Reformed finance professional. So forgive me. I come from investment banking originally
33:41I think it's a really interesting question because I think people are pointing to the wrong characters in the room
33:46to sort of finance
33:48The scaling of those projects. So I'm a venture capitalist
33:51The way we think about making investments is we want to make five to ten x our money
33:55Hopefully more in a five to ten year time horizon typical fun lives are about that ten year time horizon
34:01I think you know growth equity firms are similar sort of three to five times their money in a
34:06In a little bit of a shorter time frame
34:08I think that's all a little bit misaligned with sort of the scaling side of a lot of these projects
34:14So I think venture capital is amazing to get to that first of a kind facility to do the proof
34:20of concept
34:20To get an exciting new technology off the ground. That's exactly what venture capital is for
34:25However, when you talk about scaling when you talk about getting to the facilities that we need
34:31That's if you look at the financial models. It looks less like a venture business
34:35It grows very linearly. It actually looks a lot like infrastructure
34:39And so I think it actually needs to be others who step up to fill that gap
34:43So one I think there needs to be more debt facilities in place
34:46I think the infrastructure funds need to take a deeper look at a lot of these opportunities where it looks
34:51very similar
34:52And actually more attractive than a lot of the traditional things that they are looking at
34:56And I think governments need to step up. So I think again, we've had a lot of conversations about the
35:01U.S. versus Europe
35:02I think one of the amazing things that the U.S. has done is put together three and a half
35:07billion
35:07To put more direct air capture in the U.S. and break soil on it
35:12And those are the types of financing that we need
35:14We need all of that to come together whether it's also philanthropic capital whether it's other sources
35:19And to your point on timelines, I think there's also a
35:24Mismatch in timeframes between when a corporate says I want to commit to buy these removals
35:30But they will not be delivered for a number of years
35:32And so Marta and her team at Curate actually put together a first-of-its-kind
35:37Financing instrument that along with standard chartered
35:41BA and undo to sort of bridge that gap
35:45And start to make it a more bankable space
35:48So we've seen a couple of debt facilities in the space
35:51So they've all been on the carbon capture and storage space. They've all been in the billion dollar range
35:56There's nothing that's been in the millions or hundreds of millions space
36:00And I think there's a big gap there in terms of where people are able to get that capital
36:05And so I think there's a lot of opportunities to think through how the financial institutions can change
36:11And to help support that from many different sources
36:14Thank you for highlighting those challenges
36:17If we talk a bit and we've touched it a bit, but it was also driving those movements
36:22There's a role in regulation, there's a role in business collaboration
36:26You mentioned it Julie
36:28Maybe Lugo Mila can you tell us about the the efforts that we need to do collaboratively to accelerate the
36:34adoption of decarbonisation technology
36:36Because we see it's still a race against the clock
36:40I would sum it up in three points
36:43One is education, second is collaboration, and then the third one is decarbonisation
36:50And I'll explain myself
36:51So on the educational side, we launched last year an educational platform that for free
37:00allows sustainability but not also any kind of industry professional to go on a sustainability journey
37:07learn for a month for free and identify how they can contribute with whatever job they have
37:14We by now have more than 10 000 people that have gone through this and this is not only chief
37:18sustainability officers
37:19but also interns, researchers, people that are professionals in the fashion finance space that just want to know how they
37:27can do their bit
37:28Why did we launch this? Because since 2017 when I launched Plan A
37:34I've learned that if I as a then also reformed as you called it financial professional
37:40needed to learn about all the science, about the statistics
37:43clearly any person who would go on the same journey
37:48would probably benefit if there was a structured approach that they can follow in order to learn how they can
37:54help
37:55So we've now seen by working with all the companies that we work with that this is incredibly instrumental
38:01A sustainability team should not stay isolated from decision-making within a business
38:06In large businesses that we work with we see that sometimes these people are on the board
38:10Sometimes they have a lot of budgets, sometimes they have a lot of decision-making power, but this is not
38:16always the case
38:16And even if this is the case all of the employees need to learn how they
38:21Even by not being a sustainability experts can contribute
38:25On the second bit related to collaboration. It is primarily related to suppliers
38:30We didn't speak extensively about scope 3 emissions, but for those of you that are here
38:35experts or even not so deep into the topic you probably know that
38:40Suppliers are sitting within the third layer of emissions of businesses and for businesses within the automotive space
38:46We're talking about sometimes 60 to 70 percent of emissions
38:50being held within this stakeholder
38:53Suppliers usually are sitting across the world. They have different jurisdiction laws that they need to follow
39:00They have a lot of different obligations related to reporting and normally are on a different sustainability journey
39:07With this in mind like getting them on board and kind of kicking off their sustainability journey is incredibly helpful
39:14For example, BMW which is one of our biggest automotive clients
39:18Alongside others within the same industry is at this point supporting the dealerships as well as also the participants within
39:26their bank
39:26To go on this journey invest in this because they want to make sure that this is actually
39:32Happening simultaneously rather than at different speed on the decarbonization bit
39:37I probably sound like I'm making a pun given this is the topic that we are
39:42Discussing but the truth is I still
39:47Maybe within this group here on stage and the people that are listening
39:50It's widely understood that this is a critical topic, but just the last few weeks. There's been
39:56sbti
39:57Delays related to the biggest corporates in the world in terms of their implementation of decarbonization projects
40:03There's been a significant challenge related to the targets that governments have set
40:08There's also be postponement of legislation related to reporting so
40:13If it is a simple sentence of we need to reduce before we do anything else
40:17That is in my view the way to accelerate which is unfortunately still not
40:23Ultimately the choice that many businesses make to kick off their sustainability journey
40:28But that's a that's a good point you're making and we see that regulation can accelerate or
40:33Or sometimes company will also comply to what's the latest days that they can apply
40:38Your industry is really by nature is working with many suppliers and many
40:44clients airlines and stakeholders and you're also highly regulated because and we want you to be related
40:50We want to go in planes that have no have no issue
40:53So how are you balancing the need of regulation to accelerate but also at the same time?
40:59You have your own speed of decarbonization and removal. How are you working with partnership with that?
41:06Yeah, so I mean you said it, you know, we are putting high-tech products
41:11Into the into the air. We need to be heavily regulated and rightly so safety is the number one priority
41:18And we've really placed sustainability at the core of of our business purpose
41:25And actually doing our business on a foundation of safety and quality is one of our sustainability commitments
41:32So we have sustainability at the highest level of the company. It's on I sit on the executive committee
41:37We have a quarterly committee with the board of directors
41:41Where we really talk about the sustainability vision strategy objectives
41:48So it's concrete our sustainability objectives are embedded in our leadership remuneration as well
41:55So it's really embedded through the company and we're working on our scope one and two journey. Of course, we're
42:01working on our scope three journey
42:03With our with our airline customers with our suppliers
42:07So it's really a collective and collaborative and and what's difficult for a company and and you said it
42:15Is that resources are finite, but we need to do everything and we need to do it now
42:21And I think it's really important for this audience to understand that in aviation life cycle terms
42:28We've made a commitment to net zero 2050
42:32Our aircraft have a lifespan of 20 25 years
42:37So in aviation terms
42:392030 which is the first commitment that we've made 10% sustainable aviation fuel by 2030
42:47That's tomorrow. So it's the decisions we make today that will enable us to meet that target
42:53In 2030 and frankly speaking
42:562050 is the day after tomorrow
43:00So it's really now that we need to act we don't have time to wait
43:04And so we're really working on avoidance
43:07reduction and removal and actually and and i'll invite you all to come and visit the airbus stand
43:14Afterwards, but when it comes to carbon removals
43:18Actually airbus has been working
43:20We've been working since the 90s on carbon removal technology
43:25We used the in fact we provided the air cleaning system for the international space station
43:32Whereby we extracted the CO2 and enabled the crew to to have clean air so CO2 removal
43:42And now we're working on I can only describe it as a as a unit
43:46For agriculture
43:49Whereby we're removing extracting CO2 from the atmosphere
43:55With an air conditioning unit
43:58Is the best way probably to describe it but come and see
44:02So extracting CO2 molecules and using it as a fertilizer for agriculture
44:09To boost agricultural production and stimulate the photosynthesis process
44:14Sure, it's small scale today
44:17So we're talking about 10 tons per annum
44:19We're working on a unit for a hundred tons per annum
44:23And then we'll scale to 1 000 tons per annum
44:26But it shows that as a as an aircraft leading aircraft manufacturer
44:32We're really exploring technology. We're working with startups. We're working with that's our airbus scale innovation
44:39Center that's that's working on this uh, DAC
44:42Unit and technology, but we're we're really extending
44:47Our um ecosystem if you like or our our the the number of partners that we work with
44:54From the more traditional ecosystems. So
44:57Manufacturers suppliers engine menu
45:00Engine manufacturers airlines to include new partners that we would never perhaps have worked with before
45:08We're working of course with research institutes with banks with financing institutions with venture
45:13uh venture capital we're working with uh many different uh industry players
45:18And that's for me the absolute key because unless we work collectively
45:24We won't get there and this is our generation's biggest challenge to tackle
45:31Thank you that's uh fascinating and bringing uh technology from space to capture the
45:36The the carbon on earth. I hope uh you will succeed in skating and uh, maybe to to to finish
45:42uh
45:42Marta you were saying we there's a discussion about we will lack
45:48Supply of removals, which is a bit the point that we are making you're saying in fact. We will probably
45:53miss
45:54Demand is it uh the way you are looking at the market
45:58Yes, so when I when I started working on carbon removal
46:01We had a very strong belief that the biggest challenge was lack of supply
46:05And I think a couple of years in I feel strongly that the biggest opportunity
46:09Is bringing more demand because with more demand comes more investment comes more interest from the banks to finance
46:16Comes more economic activity and more innovation more talent pouring into this space
46:21Which is why I absolutely command what airbus is doing sending a message to the market to its investors to
46:28its clients and customers
46:31Creating fear of missing out for other players in the market who will then be left behind. I think lubomila
46:36makes a really important point
46:37if
46:38Scope 3 if suppliers are responsible for your scope 3 emissions increasingly
46:43Organizations that are on the net zero journey
46:46So are radically reducing and buying carbon removal should be able to say that they can command a net zero
46:51premium because they are not putting their
46:54Emissions on the client on the client that they're that they're selling to so
46:59In terms of supply, I feel very strongly that if we start now
47:03Which is why I would say even if it's small contributions towards carbon removal and absolutely you should start with
47:09decarbonization
47:10In fact, we as a company will not work with any client who is not already on a radical decarbonization
47:16journey
47:16The first paragraph in our contract says we believe we're together collectively working on climate change
47:21You're already doing everything you can on reducing your emissions
47:24And you see that you also need carbon removal, which we're happy to provide
47:28Even if it's small contributions, we think it's incredibly important that large corporates are starting to look at building these
47:35budgets today
47:36Even if starting small and I actually am the one non-financial professional recovering on this panel
47:44But I will tell you that as this is a tech
47:46This is a tech conference and everybody understands the power of the exponential curve
47:50That curves has to happen and start somewhere
47:53And so if we start with small investments today, this is what's going to guarantee
47:59That when companies with 2035, 2040, 2050 net zero targets
48:04That require you to buy carbon removal when you want that carbon removal that it's going to be there
48:10At a price that your organization can carry and with the quality that the world needs
48:15One reaction, Judy. Thank you. I'd just like to build on
48:18Build on something that you said Marta and also Milo Luna
48:22Just just thinking and we were talking about statistics earlier. There was a great statistic yesterday
48:28In the UK where the UK economy grew by one percent in 2023
48:34But the UK's net zero economy grew by nine percent
48:40Which shows that it's attracting capital for investment and I think that's very very positive
48:46And I asked myself
48:48Building on on what you were saying Milo Luna and the billions going into compensating
48:55Climate impact
48:57Coming through the the banks the insurance companies because of the devastation
49:02If we act when we act as large scale with that kind of funding that's being pumped in to
49:09Pay for damages if you like if we were to change the angle of the lens and inject that money
49:17Into the global climate change transition
49:21We would change the face of this equation and I think it's something that we should all be thinking about
49:26And and acting upon
49:29Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much to to all of you
49:32I think we could go on for a long because there's still a much to say
49:36But we are way over time and I'm being looked by the organizer saying we should leave the leave the
49:41stage
49:42So thank you very much for all your your insights
49:44We were very happy to have you on board and such complementary vision and enjoy VivaTech
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