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00:00:28Transcribed by ESO, translated by —
00:00:31It's a decades-old mystery.
00:00:33This is a view from the south side of the crime scene.
00:00:37Where Officer Group I is now is the location of the body.
00:00:47All leads had been exhausted.
00:00:49Why can't I solve this case?
00:00:51Why can't I find out who killed this 15-year-old girl?
00:00:55How could the killer just do this and disappear?
00:00:57Karen Stitt was just 15 when she was brutally murdered on her way to a bus stop in Sunnyvale, California
00:01:05in Silicon Valley.
00:01:07Dumped at the base of a cinder block wall behind some bushes.
00:01:11Her hands and her legs bound with her own clothes.
00:01:15Raped, stabbed over 50 times and left to bleed to death by a monster.
00:01:20To cross paths with an evil predator on such a short window of time is like a lightning strike.
00:01:26When someone is murdered, it's like a whole world has been destroyed.
00:01:30It changed all of our lives forever.
00:01:37For every family member and friend who never got answers, there are investigators still haunted by the case they never
00:01:45closed.
00:01:46It was a case that hung over their heads for decades.
00:01:49It was in their neighborhood. It happened on their watch. They wanted it solved.
00:01:53Decades after Karen Stitt's murder, one determined cop, Detective Matt Hutchison, takes her case on.
00:02:01I was reading a newspaper one day and I saw this article about this Sunnyvale cop who had posed as
00:02:08a busboy to gather DNA evidence to solve a cold case.
00:02:12And I thought, this is kind of cool. Sounds like a TV show or something.
00:02:17Matt never gives up and he will use every avenue available to him to solve the crime.
00:02:25He's willing to kind of get down in the muck to do whatever it takes to find these people.
00:02:30He will bust tables and he will collect trash and he will get his fortune told.
00:02:35Matt will do anything to identify these killers.
00:02:43For every story, there's a villain and a hero.
00:02:46And I think Matt is the hero in this story.
00:02:50You're going to work these cases until they're solved or it's going to break you.
00:02:54Matt Hutchison, who goes by Hutch, has made arrests in no less than seven cold cases,
00:03:01leading some to use a different nickname for him, Badass Detective.
00:03:11I was born and raised in the city of Sunnyvale.
00:03:15Grew up like any other kid, playing Little League and all the sports that I could.
00:03:19I asked Matt what he was like as a kid.
00:03:21And he says, I guess you could say I was willful. I was a willful kid.
00:03:26I'm the youngest of three boys, so I had to keep up.
00:03:29I had to get a quick wit to defend myself quite a bit.
00:03:33He went to high school probably five miles from where he does his police work.
00:03:36Then he went to Cal Poly San Luis Obispo, which is a few hours down the road.
00:03:40So he's very much a local guy.
00:03:43You didn't start off wanting to be a comp. What was your original plan?
00:03:47I majored in history and I thought that I was going to be a high school history teacher,
00:03:50maybe coached golf or football. And while I was in college,
00:03:54I realized I probably don't have the patience to be teaching high school kids.
00:03:58My stepfather worked for the city of Sunnyvale as a police officer for 30 plus years.
00:04:03Oh, wow. And he kind of guided me down that path and said,
00:04:05you need to consider public safety and I think it'd be a fit for you. And it was.
00:04:13It's a unique program in all the United States.
00:04:15Every officer there is a fully trained police officer, EMT and firefighter.
00:04:29Basically what that means is that everybody who signs up to be a cop also signs up to be a
00:04:35firefighter and an EMT.
00:04:36A lot of people want to either be cops or firefighters.
00:04:39It definitely takes a special person that wants to do both sides of the house.
00:04:44Which one do you like best? What's the difference?
00:04:47I would say that when you're a firefighter, they wave to you with all five fingers
00:04:50instead of just their favorite middle one when you're on patrol.
00:04:57We worked on graveyard patrol together 8 p.m. to 7 a.m.
00:05:02So true nighttime hours.
00:05:04Uh, Corinne is a lot like me. We're like-minded.
00:05:07We're one and two trying to push each other.
00:05:09If she made an arrest, I needed to go out and make two and vice versa.
00:05:14My goal on graveyard was to be as active as I possibly could.
00:05:17I wanted to get as much experience as quickly as I could because I knew that I wanted to get
00:05:21into investigations.
00:05:23I applied three times before I was selected.
00:05:26Once he finally makes it to investigations, Hutch, now Detective Hutch, finally finds his calling,
00:05:33with a little inspiration from an unexpected source.
00:05:37I was looking around for something to keep me busy and keep my mind engaged,
00:05:42and one of my husband's friends was a captain at DPS, the Department of Public Safety.
00:05:47They put her on a filing duty.
00:05:50And after a certain amount of time and maybe a few months, she went to one of the sergeants and
00:05:55said,
00:05:55basically, this is really boring. Can you give me something a little more interesting to do?
00:05:59He said, yeah, I got something that might interest you.
00:06:05The detective that took me to the cold case room, he asked me to come back to the bureau to
00:06:10organize the closet and the files.
00:06:13Your original goal was to make it all more streamlined and organized, more manageable.
00:06:19Yes. Initially, I was putting them together for the investigator, but I got so drawn in.
00:06:25Were you prepared to see the violent nature in these files?
00:06:29No, not at all.
00:06:31Carol told me that she was just horrified.
00:06:33She told herself, these people can't get away with this, whoever did this.
00:06:37I'm not going to solve it, and I know that, but I'm hoping that I can put the data together
00:06:40to give to a detective that can solve it,
00:06:43or at least make more headway or eliminate more people.
00:06:47For the most part, they were not getting worked, and all of a sudden, here comes Matt.
00:06:52It's like he hadn't found his true mission, and then all of a sudden, he found it.
00:06:58Cold cases are cold for a reason. What made you think that you could solve those?
00:07:04They get under your skin, they bury into your heart, and you want to solve them so badly that you
00:07:09can't just put them down.
00:07:13The very first day that I opened the cold case closet door, there were boxes stacked six feet high, filing
00:07:21cabinets with loose papers and things all over them.
00:07:26It's such a dramatic scene.
00:07:29It was like the attic that you've not gone up into for 30 years.
00:07:35There was one folding chair, so he sat on a little folding chair with the files, and he would have
00:07:39a legal pad on one knee, and he'd be taking notes.
00:07:42So many of these boxes, representing lives, lost.
00:07:47It was just him, total silence back there with the files, back there with the ghosts.
00:07:55When I became a detective, and I told my stepfather I was interested in the cold cases, he said, you
00:08:01have to work Karen Stitt.
00:08:03She's a 15-year-old girl who was abducted, stripped nude, bound, sexually assaulted, and left in an alleyway.
00:08:11Bloods danger here, and on the other side of the wall.
00:08:17Every detective over the years, when they look at that case, that's the case you want to solve.
00:08:21If you're going to work any of them, you want to solve that one.
00:08:27Little does he know, it'll take him another five years, and traveling 2,500 miles,
00:08:34teaming up with library ladies, and a mom on a laptop, going undercover to visit a psychic,
00:08:42to close in on the killer of Karen Stitt.
00:09:00It's a sunny September morning, and a truck driver is making a delivery to a local garden center.
00:09:06He sees something in the bushes.
00:09:09What did he discover?
00:09:11Initially, he thought he was seeing a mannequin, and didn't think twice about it.
00:09:16It wasn't a mannequin.
00:09:17No, it was a young girl.
00:09:22What we're approaching right now is the wall where she's eventually found.
00:09:25All this was completely different in 1982, so this is a driveway that goes down an alley,
00:09:31and this wall extends about 20 to 30 feet down this alley.
00:09:34Her body was found right behind this wall?
00:09:37Yeah, there used to be a large hedge and a bunch of bushes that lined the wall,
00:09:41and she was concealed between the bushes and the wall itself, laying on her side, looking out.
00:09:47You used this alleyway when you were a kid?
00:09:49Yeah, so I would get stuck at this red light here, and I would cut through the alley and find
00:09:54my way back out onto El Camino.
00:09:56I wasn't one for patience and waiting at red lights, so I found a way around.
00:10:00My thoughts of this alley changed dramatically when I realized what happened here.
00:10:05You have to work?
00:10:06Yeah.
00:10:07Finally.
00:10:08In this case, they did a scene walkthrough where they actually videotaped it.
00:10:12How far is this west of the body, Jim?
00:10:16About 40 feet.
00:10:19So I can see exactly what they saw.
00:10:22Blue jeans, belt, more cosmetics, lipstick.
00:10:27There was blood on the wall behind her body, and then up above her, there was more blood on top
00:10:32of the wall.
00:10:33Blood stains are here and on the other side of the wall.
00:10:40The brutality of this crime was over the top.
00:10:43She stabbed over 50 times in the chest and sexually assaulted.
00:10:48She was nude.
00:10:49She had her hands and her legs bound with her own clothes.
00:10:55The leaves near the victim's feet were disturbed, which suggested she had been thrown there.
00:11:02Still alive.
00:11:03It's certainly the most graphic and violent scene that I've seen in my career.
00:11:08The voice that we hear narrating the crime scene video, who is that?
00:11:12That's Bruce Dudley.
00:11:13As the lead crime scene investigator, he was the one directing all the evidence items that were collected.
00:11:19He managed that entire crime scene.
00:11:21He actually told me that this case has given him nightmares for years, because he wanted the case solved so
00:11:26badly.
00:11:27Object here appears to be a makeup pencil.
00:11:30Eyeliner.
00:11:31Personal items of hers were strewn about where she was found.
00:11:35A brown colored compact.
00:11:37They went through the crime scene and took painstaking care to preserve everything they thought might be usable someday down
00:11:46the road.
00:11:46And that will be branch five.
00:11:48They were collecting branches from the bushes that she had been brushed up against.
00:11:53They were taking blood samples, soil samples.
00:11:56They collected every one of her personal items that they could find on scene.
00:11:59There was a wallet that was kind of underneath her body.
00:12:01Inside the wallet was her social security card that listed her name, Karen Stitt.
00:12:07Karen Stitt was a high school girl that lived in Palo Alto, about 20 minutes north of Sunnyvale.
00:12:14As investigators focus on the crime scene in the alleyway, their fellow officers monitor the perimeter to keep the public
00:12:21out.
00:12:22One of those officers on the perimeter got approached by a young man asking questions about, hey, what's going on?
00:12:27What's with all the police activity?
00:12:29The officer eventually asked, well, who are you? What are you doing here?
00:12:33And he said, I'm David Woods, and I was here last night. I was dropping off my girlfriend in this
00:12:37area. Her name's Karen Stitt.
00:12:39We had just moved out there this summer. It was a pretty amazing place to land at.
00:12:45Shortly after is when I met Karen. I was 16 and Karen was 15.
00:12:50I was with Karen when she met David.
00:12:54We were at the mall, and I vaguely remember her meeting a boy with a baseball cap on, and from
00:13:02there she continued seeing him.
00:13:04I think I could call to love at first sight. She just really swept me off my feet, and we
00:13:09were just instantly a couple at that point.
00:13:11It was just pure bliss, really. We'd go out wandering around. One place I remember, it was a Tower of
00:13:19Records. You're flipping through records and albums.
00:13:22We're both into rock music. I had definitely a wide variety of tastes. I know she liked a lot of
00:13:27what I did, too.
00:13:29On the last night of her life, Karen takes the number 22 bus from Palo Alto to Sunnyvale for a
00:13:36date with David.
00:13:38David met her at the bus stop. He played video games at a 7-Eleven.
00:13:42I got really good at this one called Defender.
00:13:46He went to a miniature golf course.
00:13:49Then we walked over to our new house and met with my parents and sister briefly.
00:13:56We went up to my room, and I played some guitar for her. I was big into guitar then.
00:14:02And after a while, we went back out and just hung out at this little elementary school that was close
00:14:08to the house.
00:14:09We lost track of time a little bit and hustled off toward the bus stop.
00:14:15He was worried that he was going to bust curfew.
00:14:17I was kind of on thin ice about that with my parents always coming in a little late.
00:14:22He's got to get her back to the bus stop because he's got to get back home.
00:14:25We got close enough to see the corner where the bus stop was at Wolf and El Camino.
00:14:32And, you know, we kissed goodnight, and she grabbed my ball cap, which was, you know, a prize to her.
00:14:38She knew that that was kind of a part of me, as I'd always have it.
00:14:43And I was like, okay, I'll get it back from you tomorrow.
00:14:52The first sign that something is wrong comes when David gets an early morning call.
00:14:57Family and friends are looking for Karen.
00:15:00She never came home.
00:15:02I got a call wondering if Karen was still at my place, that she didn't come back last night.
00:15:07And, you know, I got dressed and went down, picked up the bus at the same spot.
00:15:14David heads to Palo Alto to retrace her steps, but there's no sign of Karen.
00:15:21His worry growing, he makes the return trip home.
00:15:25When I got off the bus, I started walking down the road, and I see the crime scene taped off.
00:15:31Then I'm a little more concerned, so I approached one of the uniformed officers that was there asking what was
00:15:38going on.
00:15:38And at that point, they pretty much whisked me away.
00:15:42He was the last person to see her alive.
00:15:44And when cops search David at the police station, they find something that only heightens their suspicions.
00:15:52When you're six hours into a homicide investigation, you have to follow that lead.
00:15:57Then they discover that he lied to his mom on the morning after Karen's murder.
00:16:02They're looking at him saying, well, he's not exactly credible.
00:16:18It was right around this area that Karen Stitt, just 15 years old, says goodnight to her boyfriend.
00:16:24He turns and runs in that direction to make curfew.
00:16:27She heads in the opposite direction, around the corner, to catch her bus.
00:16:32But the bus comes and goes, and Karen never gets on.
00:16:44Karen was bright and kind and beautiful.
00:16:50My brother was her father.
00:16:52Karen was the third child.
00:16:54She was the baby of the family.
00:16:55She was.
00:16:56She was born prematurely.
00:16:58She weighed less than six pounds and really wasn't expected to live.
00:17:03But she was strong and she grew into a thriving baby and a happy child.
00:17:10So from the very beginning, she was a fighter.
00:17:15This one's dated 1972 and she's in her brownie outfit.
00:17:20So she would have been five there.
00:17:22And here, I remember this is their house in Pittsburgh, where she was raised, sitting on the couch in their
00:17:27living room.
00:17:31And then this final picture is her with her sister.
00:17:35This is Suzanne in the front, Karen in the middle, and a family friend, Susan.
00:17:43Her mother and father divorced?
00:17:45Yes, they divorced and my brother first moved to Georgia and then took a job in California, living in Palo
00:17:52Alto.
00:17:54And then at 14 years old, Karen's life is hit with tragedy when her mother, Kathy, takes her own life.
00:18:02What impact did that have on Karen?
00:18:04I can only imagine what it's like to lose a parent in any circumstance at such a young age.
00:18:12But she was lucky she had the support of her family and particularly her older sister, Suzanne, who just adored
00:18:19her.
00:18:24After her mother's death, Karen moves to California to live with her father full time.
00:18:30She went out there and was immediately enrolled in school and seemed to be doing great.
00:18:37She went to Palo Alto Senior High School or Pali.
00:18:40She came in halfway through what would have been her freshman year.
00:18:45We just clicked, started hanging out, you know, swapped numbers and just became really tight friends.
00:18:52Karen was definitely a person that once you met her, she was just like no other girl that I had
00:18:58ever met before.
00:18:59We were either always on the phone or together, out doing what 15 year olds do, hanging at the mall,
00:19:05being girls.
00:19:06You know, we weren't afraid to take walks to the store, ride the buses by ourselves.
00:19:12It was just easy living at that time.
00:19:17As the summer ended, she was in love.
00:19:20She was about to start a new school year.
00:19:22Was this a new life for her?
00:19:24I think it was. She was excited about the future and about the possibilities.
00:19:33But Karen's sudden murder stuns her friends and family.
00:19:38One of her shoes is up to the right, underneath the limb there.
00:19:42It was just unthinkable that something like that could happen.
00:19:47The leaves appear to be pushed back during the struggle.
00:19:50She didn't want to believe it, you know, like it couldn't, it couldn't be true.
00:19:54Where the other two subjects are standing is about where the body was located.
00:20:00And you see that there are monsters out there.
00:20:02It changed all of our lives, forever.
00:20:08As they search to identify the monster who killed Karen,
00:20:12police are locked in on the one person they know she was with the night before.
00:20:18David Woods.
00:20:21And at that point, they pretty much whisked me away,
00:20:24took me down to their station for questioning.
00:20:28What did officers find in his pocket?
00:20:31When he came in for questioning, it's common to just do a cursory search of him
00:20:36to make sure he doesn't have any weapons.
00:20:37And when they did that, they found that he was in possession of a pocket knife.
00:20:40Could be the murder weapon.
00:20:41He was the last person with her, and now he's got a weapon on his person.
00:20:46They're certainly concerned that that could be the murder weapon.
00:20:50David, what we need to know from you is the last time you saw Karen, where you were.
00:20:58She came over and visited me last night.
00:21:00About what time?
00:21:02She came over about 28 and 9.
00:21:05The detectives are probing him for information as if he's a suspect.
00:21:09I don't know that he necessarily recognized that he was a suspect in that moment.
00:21:13It still was not occurring to me that something this horrific could have happened.
00:21:18What was she wearing?
00:21:19What was she wearing?
00:21:19She was wearing her blue jeans, blue-white striped shirt, black satin jacket on the head.
00:21:28She had it on at the time, or did you give it to her when you met her?
00:21:32Uh, I gave it to her while ago.
00:21:34You gave it to her when you left where?
00:21:37Uh, okay.
00:21:37I walked her up to the bus stop.
00:21:41Not a long time.
00:21:42I left her with my hat.
00:21:43Detectives are pressing David for details about his hat, because that morning they found it next to Karen's body.
00:21:51Can you describe your hat?
00:21:53It's a blue hat with a patch on the front and it says Raj.
00:21:58It's got two buttons of Rolling Stone's bottom and a juice crease button.
00:22:01Something happened to her.
00:22:03I don't know what we're trying to find out.
00:22:05You walked her up to the bus stop and then left her there?
00:22:09Uh-huh.
00:22:09Did you wait for the bus with her?
00:22:11No, I had to go home.
00:22:14I didn't like doing that.
00:22:16The detectives pushed him quite a bit on why would you leave her out by herself.
00:22:20Was she physically at the bus stop sitting on the bench when you left?
00:22:24No.
00:22:26She was walking toward her from the restaurant.
00:22:29How come you didn't stay there?
00:22:31I had to be home.
00:22:32Do you know any objection?
00:22:34David touched looking in your room at home and looking at the foot that you were wearing at home.
00:22:40If you need this help, support.
00:22:43It's important for us to know.
00:22:55I found out that she had been killed at that point and it just still seemed unreal to me.
00:23:00My world got swept out from under my feet and then I had that horrible regret of not being there
00:23:07to protect her.
00:23:09And, you know, just thinking about what she must have had to endure, you know, it was just so painful.
00:23:21David may be reeling from the shock of Karen's loss, but he and his parents take investigators back to his
00:23:27house and they give them his clothes from the night before.
00:23:31None of his clothes had any biological evidence, no blood, the knife was clean.
00:23:38But what's missing from the crime scene quickly takes investigators in a different direction.
00:23:44There's not enough blood on the ground, on the wall, for that to be where she was stabbed.
00:23:50Could Karen have been attacked and killed somewhere else and then left back at that alley?
00:23:57There was a witness that came forward and described a very distinct vehicle.
00:24:01They described the coloring and described a sticker.
00:24:03Detectives told officers to be out in the neighborhood day and night trying to find this car.
00:24:08They're casting a very wide net because we just really don't have any idea who did this.
00:24:25Every time I look at the crime scene photos,
00:24:30as traumatic as they are, I want to study them and know them like the back of my own hand
00:24:34because I want to be able to explain every single item.
00:24:38The what, the how, the where, the when, the why, I want to know every answer I can.
00:24:46In 1982, investigators are also studying the crime scene closely and have zeroed in on Karen's boyfriend.
00:24:55I don't recall them having any suspicions other than possibly David because he was the last one with her.
00:25:04And that's not all. They discover he had not told everyone the same story about the morning after Karen's murder.
00:25:13Did you receive a phone call this morning?
00:25:15Yeah. What time?
00:25:17Who was it?
00:25:18It was, um, her sister's refund.
00:25:23Did you see why she was living with Karen?
00:25:26She said it was kind of different than the house.
00:25:29But when he hung up the phone that morning, he had told his mom something different.
00:25:34When David finishes that conversation, mom asks him, who was that? And he tells his mom it was Karen.
00:25:40Even though he explains he was just trying to avoid worrying her, it feeds their suspicions.
00:25:47When the police are talking to all these different people and getting four different versions of the events,
00:25:51they're looking at him saying, well, he's not exactly credible.
00:25:54Why would he lie to his mom about who he just talked to?
00:25:56Even as they're taking a hard look at David, cops are also reexamining the crime scene and details that seem
00:26:04to be pointing in an entirely different direction.
00:26:09Where Karen was found, there's not enough blood on the ground, on the wall, for that to be where she
00:26:15was stabbed.
00:26:16There's just no way.
00:26:18I've always believed that whoever abducted her put her into some sort of a vehicle that was big enough that
00:26:23the crime was committed inside the vehicle.
00:26:25The investigators keyed in on that as well.
00:26:28At one point, there was a witness that came forward and described a very distinct vehicle.
00:26:33It was either a truck with a shell over it or a panel van type of vehicle.
00:26:38Detectives told officers, I need you to be out in the neighborhood day and night trying to find this specifically
00:26:44described car.
00:26:45And they actually found a vehicle that matched generally the description and found that guy and interviewed him as well.
00:26:52But this tip goes nowhere, as does every other potential lead they chase.
00:26:58From a reportedly violent military veteran seen in the area that night, to a clerk at the 7-Eleven, where
00:27:05David Wood said he was playing an arcade game.
00:27:08They just had blood on the wall, a boyfriend who made some statements that were inconsistent, and there's really nothing
00:27:14else to work.
00:27:15Did the family suspect anyone?
00:27:17I don't think there was anyone that the family truly suspected.
00:27:22They kept saying, you know, it's only one phone call away.
00:27:25Whoever knows anything at all, just make the call.
00:27:28The longer it went, I knew the harder it was going to be to find somebody.
00:27:36We didn't hear anything for quite a long time, like five years or something.
00:27:40And then somebody would reach out, and then you wouldn't hear anything again for a long time.
00:27:47So I thought it was just like a repeating cycle of, they don't have anything, but they're just asking more
00:27:54questions.
00:27:54But whenever a detective does reopen Karen's file, and many do, one name usually rises to the top.
00:28:03Really, it's not the boyfriend? Are we sure it's not the boyfriend?
00:28:06They felt like they knew what happened, and they had a hard time going beyond just looking at the boyfriend.
00:28:13He was the main suspect initially, and he remained a suspect for years.
00:28:19I'm sure that whatever list of potential suspects was there, I was probably always on there.
00:28:26But, you know, I also knew that, you know, there's no evidence that I would have been able to do
00:28:34something so horrific.
00:28:39In 2000, a new detective is looking at this case and realizes we can use DNA technology on the blood
00:28:45from our crime scene.
00:28:46Where are we here?
00:28:47We are at the Santa Clara County District Attorney's Office Crime Laboratory, where we do DNA analysis.
00:28:57In Karen Stitt's case, you processed some evidence in the year 2000. Why do it now?
00:29:04The crime laboratory went online with the more modern, newer DNA typing.
00:29:09A 15-year-old girl was murdered in 1982.
00:29:13The victim had been tied up with her own jacket, and this jacket had blood smears and stains all over
00:29:21it.
00:29:21If you're stabbing someone, the odds are that the blood is going to lubricate your hand and it's going to
00:29:26slip,
00:29:26and you're going to cut your own hand on that knife plate.
00:29:29So, I was looking for something that stood out.
00:29:33This is my note page from the case.
00:29:36I noted that the stains were all soaked or smeared.
00:29:39One little red dot was thick, shiny, and perfectly round as if someone just dropped it and it dried.
00:29:47Because it stood out, I sampled it for DNA analysis, and it was an unknown male DNA profile.
00:29:55That same profile matched the blood seen on the wall above her.
00:29:58That was the point we thought, this is our killer. That's the person that did this.
00:30:03The first thing we did with that was to compare it to her boyfriend.
00:30:07We do a one-to-one comparison between David Woods and the blood at the scene, and David Woods is
00:30:14eliminated as the source of that blood.
00:30:16After nearly 20 years, with a cloud of suspicion hanging over him, David Woods is finally ruled out as Karen
00:30:25Stitt's killer.
00:30:26It's the DNA that allowed us to rule him out as a suspect.
00:30:31How does this unknown DNA profile change the investigation?
00:30:36Now that's the person that you need to focus on. Figure out who that blood belongs to.
00:30:42We didn't know who it was. It was a profile that was eligible to be uploaded into CODIS, the national
00:30:48database.
00:30:48And we did upload it, but there was no hit.
00:30:53I got to a point where I felt like this probably will never get solved.
00:30:59It almost became a subject that we didn't talk about in the family.
00:31:03But 35 years after Karen's death, Hutch takes this case on with a new determination to solve it.
00:31:11When I first started working it, there had been an article in a local newspaper where her father was quoted.
00:31:16And the sentiment was, I haven't heard from Sunnyvale in quite some time.
00:31:21I don't think they'll ever solve my daughter's case.
00:31:23I called him right away, and I said, Mr. Stitt, I'm taking the case now. I will work it.
00:31:29And that conversation was short, and he basically told me, don't call me back until you do.
00:31:36And as Hutch digs into the case, another unsolved murder in the same town just a few years earlier catches
00:31:43his attention.
00:31:44A young security guard, 18 years old, stabbed to death inside an office building.
00:31:50She was a young girl, still in high school.
00:31:52There's parallels in these cases because they're both stabbed, and it's a complete, what we call a whodunit.
00:31:58So what connection could there be between these two cases?
00:32:13I learned fly fish, and it became a godsend to me.
00:32:19Watching my fly go down the river and setting the hook is the only place where I can completely check
00:32:24out from the rest of the world.
00:32:27It recharges my batteries, in a sense, and gives me the ability to keep going.
00:32:32I wish that we were just catching fish, and there wasn't a need to catch people, but this is my
00:32:38job.
00:32:42Matt was always working on more than one case at a time, because he would hit a dead end, and
00:32:47he would just start working on another one.
00:32:50Matt Hutchison is moving full speed ahead, trying to solve the Karen Stitt case.
00:32:56But he's also competing with a backlog of current cases the department is trying to close.
00:33:03Sometimes all Hutch can do is wait and begin investigating other cold cases.
00:33:11And then there's the murder of Estella Mena. It was a mystery.
00:33:16Absolute mystery.
00:33:19Estella came from a strong family. She didn't go out and socialize a lot.
00:33:23She did some martial arts, went to school, and worked.
00:33:31Long before big tech became a big thing here in Silicon Valley,
00:33:38Western Electric was a leader in the communication business in Sunnyvale.
00:33:43Back in 1979, Estella Mena was a security guard working part-time there while still in high school.
00:33:51She's 18 years old, and she's still in school, but she's taking on such a serious job.
00:33:57I always just looked at it as a sign of her ambition and where she wanted to go in life.
00:34:02On a Saturday afternoon in October, Estella was planning to attend a martial arts competition after work.
00:34:09She never made it.
00:34:14It was a weekend where Western Electric didn't have all their employees going in and out of the business.
00:34:19There was less staff on scene, and one of the engineers who had been working upstairs,
00:34:26he's going to leave the business, and he hears Estella in the corner struggling to live.
00:34:33He finds her on the ground stabbed multiple times.
00:34:37She's not communicating with him about who stabbed her.
00:34:40She never attacked where she worked and murdered and tossed behind a vending machine.
00:34:50The murder is in 1979.
00:34:53Hudge is on the case in 2018.
00:34:59All right, what do we have here?
00:35:01This is the overhead scene diagram from 1979 for the murder of Estella Mena.
00:35:07A common thing that crime scene investigators will do is an overhead view of the scene where a crime happened.
00:35:13They'll draw the vending machines, her desk in place, doors, certain things that don't move.
00:35:19The other category Hudge focuses on are things that do move, items that seem out of place.
00:35:28I look at things like the screwdriver in the middle of the room.
00:35:32How does that get there? Why is that there? Does it make any sense?
00:35:36Same with the comb. Same with the shoe.
00:35:40The photo of Estella's shoe also catches the eye of Carol Smith,
00:35:46that volunteer who's been helping out in the cold case unit.
00:35:51The other detectives that I had worked with suggest that it was probably above her head
00:35:56because the first responders to get to her, they'd thrown it back over her head.
00:36:02Carol, you said looking at the scene, it was your impression that the victim was a fighter.
00:36:08Why did you say that?
00:36:09Because it starts this way and goes all the way to the other side of the lobby.
00:36:14And you can see there's buttons and combs and everything that trail that way.
00:36:18There's blood that trails throughout the lobby.
00:36:20And so, yeah, she fought the whole way.
00:36:22But the young martial arts student is no match for a killer with a knife.
00:36:28She didn't have no kind of weapon on her.
00:36:31She didn't have nothing.
00:36:32And she was a security guard, and most security guards do.
00:36:35They have either a maze to spray in their eyes or some kind of, if not a gun, I mean,
00:36:41a stick or, you know, something for her to protect herself with.
00:36:44And she didn't have nothing like that.
00:36:49Decades later, the family receives an unexpected phone call from Detective Hutch.
00:36:56I did reach out early on, and I said, I'm working this case.
00:36:59I know that there's a family on the other end of that case that's still waiting, and that's painful for
00:37:05them.
00:37:06And if it's painful for them, it's something that I want to try and do everything I can to fix.
00:37:10By the time Hutch comes on board, Western Electric has ceased operations.
00:37:15The original investigators have long since retired, and the killer has a 39-year head start.
00:37:26I've always picked up a cold case knowing that it is my goal to solve it, but that might be
00:37:32difficult and I may not succeed, but I can leave it better than I found it.
00:37:35In the early stages of the investigation, the biggest lead was the smallest piece of evidence, a speck of blood.
00:37:45When the crime scene was processed, the Sunnyvale detectives found a drop of blood on the doorframe, the same door
00:37:55that the killer would have gone through.
00:37:59I knew if we're ever going to solve it, we need to be able to answer who's the source of
00:38:03that blood.
00:38:05You can't prosecute that case unless you know who the blood on the doorframe is.
00:38:09On the day of the crime, Western Electric was in the process of moving to another facility.
00:38:14So the building itself had a lot of people that were in and out of there that weren't necessarily associated
00:38:20to the business.
00:38:21Over time, investigators interview them all.
00:38:25The end result? Nobody knew anything. Nobody saw anything.
00:38:36Much like Karen's case, Estella's case gets under your skin and it sticks with you and they won't let you
00:38:43give up.
00:38:46Matt Hutchison is about to get some assistance from a very unlikely source.
00:38:53I explained to them who my victim is and what the case is and they are on board.
00:38:58How can we help you? What do you need from us to help solve this murder of this young girl?
00:39:02I said, I need a trash truck.
00:39:04One of the best ways to find a killer is to get a sample of their DNA.
00:39:09And the best way to do that is to grab their trash.
00:39:12This is your guy. Matt Hutchison.
00:39:14I didn't do anything wrong.
00:39:16In my line of work, it's very common for people to lie to us.
00:39:19I want to see if I can rattle his cage a little bit.
00:39:21Any reason for your blood to be found inside that lobby?
00:39:31Nobody should have to see the things that were done to those two girls.
00:39:37But I'm fine with it being me if it means I can solve them.
00:39:40And solve them by any means necessary.
00:39:44Because if he sees you out the window, your cover is blowing.
00:39:47I rode the truck as if I was just any other employee.
00:39:49Any reason for your blood to be found inside that lobby where this happened?
00:39:54Juggling two cold cases. But is it the same killer?
00:39:58We just needed to find a name to match that DNA.
00:40:01That's what we look for. You have someone who was killed or stabbed or shot.
00:40:05And that person, they're bloody all over.
00:40:07So we just took our pool of suspects from millions to there's three men in the world that it could
00:40:14be.
00:40:14Crucial work.
00:40:16A very crucial work.
00:40:17And is one of them connected to this psychic.
00:40:20You're not going to make me cry then.
00:40:22If you don't cry, it'll feel like I'm doing my job.
00:40:24This is the one chance we're going to get at it and we can't screw it up.
00:40:28Bingo.
00:40:28We're going now.
00:40:30Because I have to go take care of Karen.
00:40:32I have to go take care of Estella.
00:40:36Oh, man.
00:40:46Detective Matt Hutchison is stuck in the past by choice.
00:40:51I'm fortunate to work cold cases in Sunnyville.
00:40:54Working case files pulled from a closet few others dare to enter.
00:41:01I went in there. I almost turned around and went out and said I give up.
00:41:06Instead, he starts working multiple cases at the same time, including two eerily similar stabbings.
00:41:15Karen Stitt, a 15-year-old, stabbed multiple times while on her way to the bus.
00:41:20Estella Mena, an 18-year-old security guard, attacked on the job at Western Electric.
00:41:27Both murdered, but by whom?
00:41:30There's constant disappointment.
00:41:32Can the man they call Hutch break the cases before the cases break him?
00:41:39Oh, man.
00:41:45In the Estella Mena case, there was an entry-exit door to that lobby that had a small smear of
00:41:51blood on it.
00:41:52They had found one drop of blood, obviously not the victim's blood. It was somebody else's blood that was found
00:41:57a few feet away.
00:41:57They decided this must be the person.
00:42:00We put it through CODIS, got no matches.
00:42:02CODIS is a database that contains DNA profiles of convicted felons and people arrested for felonies in certain states.
00:42:11If you didn't get a match, if you didn't get a hit, basically the approach for law enforcement is, well,
00:42:17there's nothing else we can do.
00:42:19But the game changes with the arrival of forensic genetic genealogy.
00:42:23Now that same genetic profile found on the doorframe can be compared, not to criminal databases, but to millions of
00:42:33profiles submitted to public genealogy websites.
00:42:38We got back some genetic matches that were close relatives that quickly kind of identified one gentleman who lived in
00:42:45Southern California who could be the source.
00:42:47It's the best lead investigators have had since 1979, a subject with a connection to Western Electric.
00:42:57I went into the case file with the name of the subject that lived in Southern California and he jumps
00:43:02off the page.
00:43:03He was an employee at Western Electric. He did a brief interview in 1979, a couple of days after the
00:43:09homicide.
00:43:10He essentially said, hey, I'm an employee of the mailroom. I don't know anything about the homicide.
00:43:15So we devised a plan to try to collect his trash that he's left out at the curb.
00:43:19A partner and I fly down to Southern California where he lives.
00:43:24But the execution of that plan is more complicated.
00:43:27Police surveillance reveals the subject puts out his trash just moments before the garbage truck comes down the street.
00:43:35So taking it in the middle of the night is not an option.
00:43:43You want the element of surprise because if he sees you out the window, right, your cover is blowing.
00:43:48Our cover is blown. Evidence could be gone. He could be prepared for the interview and come up with a
00:43:53story that I can't refute.
00:43:55When I get face to face with him, I want it to be the first time he knows we're investigating
00:43:59him.
00:44:00So you've got to be able to surprise him.
00:44:02Have to.
00:44:02You've got to get creative.
00:44:04I do.
00:44:04We actually contacted the trash company in this case and got them to give us a truck so that we
00:44:09could drive on the truck and collect an entire can.
00:44:12You asked the trash company for a truck. Their reaction?
00:44:17You know, at first they were like, this is not the type of thing that we do.
00:44:20And then I introduce them to my victim and I tell them the story.
00:44:22I tell them who she is and why this is important, why this is the only way, and then they're
00:44:27100% on board.
00:44:29It has to be realistic, right?
00:44:31It has to look like every other trash day that he's ever had.
00:44:35It was important that I look exactly like another trash employee.
00:44:38So I had the vest on, I rode the truck as if I was just any other employee because we
00:44:42didn't want to give the impression anything was changed.
00:44:46They roll out the old beast that's been on the line for probably 15 years and it's got three inches
00:44:52of just sludge.
00:44:53Sludge.
00:44:54Just disgusting.
00:44:55And I tell them, guys, we're going to put samples of DNA into this thing.
00:44:59It has to be pristine.
00:45:00We have to have a way to preserve this evidence.
00:45:03These trucks are designed so that when a can goes in, it smashes all the trash to make room for
00:45:08the next can.
00:45:09We disabled the compactor arm and then we drove to a local hardware store and bought a big tarp and
00:45:15crawled up in there and rigged it up inside the truck so that when the can dumped in, we would
00:45:20catch just our trash and it wouldn't touch anything else and we'd be able to drive away with it.
00:45:24So then you hit the streets.
00:45:26You head to this guy's house and what happens there?
00:45:30The first thing I see is another one of these trucks half a block ahead of us and I'm in
00:45:35full panic thinking this guy's going to take our can.
00:45:38We got on the horn with him and said, you need to just blow by the address.
00:45:41He listened, thankfully, and when he goes by, we pull up and we make a left into this gentleman's court
00:45:47and I see his can.
00:45:49I know the game's on.
00:45:55The trash is successfully deposited into the truck.
00:46:00Hutch is booked on the next flight to get back to Sunnyvale, but he can't let the evidence out of
00:46:07his sight.
00:46:08We've got a lot of cigarette butts, bottles, cans, anything that somebody puts in their mouth can be a source
00:46:13of DNA.
00:46:14And then I try to get through TSA with a suitcase full of trash thinking that they're going to put
00:46:19me on some sort of watch list or something.
00:46:21We were able to get on the plane, fly it back, and then my task is immediately take it to
00:46:25the crime lab because we want it tested right now.
00:46:27Match or no match?
00:46:29It's a match.
00:46:30We know who the source of the blood is inside our crime scene now.
00:46:35The work is on now.
00:46:36We have to prove that he's the one that did it.
00:46:39Hutch returns to Southern California, and this time it's to come face to face with his prime suspect.
00:46:46This is your guy.
00:46:47Matt Hutchison, I'm really sorry to ruin your day.
00:46:50That's the copy of the search warrant.
00:46:52Jesus.
00:46:53When did we have to have a search warrant?
00:46:55I didn't do anything wrong.
00:47:05When I come back to Southern California where the employee of Western Electric lives, I think everyone assumed quite reasonably
00:47:14that the blood on the door frame that the killer went through has to be our killer.
00:47:24When we arrived at his house, we had the local police department with us.
00:47:29We'll do this wherever you're comfortable.
00:47:30We need...
00:47:31Okay.
00:47:31I appreciate it.
00:47:33You want a cup of coffee?
00:47:35I'm okay.
00:47:37I want to see if I can rattle his cage a little bit and make him uncomfortable, and maybe he'll
00:47:41slip up.
00:47:42In my line of work, it's very common for people to lie to you.
00:47:45Did you ever suffer any kind of injuries or have any accidents when you worked at Western Electric?
00:47:48Not that I remember.
00:47:50Maybe he'll say something, or maybe he'll give me some indication that he actually is the perpetrator in this case.
00:47:56This is one of the doors leaving the business.
00:47:59There's a blood smear.
00:48:00I see it right there.
00:48:02Any reason for your blood to be found inside that lobby where this happened?
00:48:07I don't think so.
00:48:10Why would you kill the security guard?
00:48:12There was no money there.
00:48:15He couldn't have been calmer or more cooperative.
00:48:18Have a safe trip back.
00:48:19Appreciate it.
00:48:21I wish I could be more help, but I...
00:48:23When I look at that, I believe that he's credible, but he might just be a good actor,
00:48:28and he might be just saying all the right things.
00:48:30I know I need more evidence than just the blood on the door.
00:48:34Can I put him somewhere closer to the victim, maybe on the victim's body, on her clothing,
00:48:39on some item that I know she touched and interacted with?
00:48:45We need to look at all of the evidence all over again.
00:48:49And as soon as I knew we were going to test other items, I came back to Carol's voice in
00:48:53my head saying,
00:48:54Matt, you have to test the shoe, you have to test the shoe.
00:49:00The two of you talked about that shoe.
00:49:03Yes.
00:49:05Incessantly, apparently.
00:49:07You can ask Matt, but yeah, I bugged him.
00:49:09She made it very clear to me that she wouldn't speak to me again if we didn't test that shoe.
00:49:13The bottom line is that shoe should have been on her foot, and it's not anymore.
00:49:18And that only happens because it falls off during the fight.
00:49:23Although they've seen the crime scene photos numerous times,
00:49:28neither Hutch nor Carol have seen the actual evidence until now.
00:49:35This really humanizes it.
00:49:37You see a height and a weight on a piece of paper.
00:49:41Yeah.
00:49:41Just somebody's statistics, and that resonates in your brain.
00:49:44You see that, and then you hold something that belonged to them, and you see just how tiny she was.
00:49:50Yeah.
00:49:52You can see the different areas that they sampled here, where you see a circle with pen.
00:49:57You can see a slight, faint stain in there.
00:50:00Blood doesn't always come up like a bright red stain that's going to jump off the page at you.
00:50:05From that tiny wedge shoe comes the answer Hutch has been looking for.
00:50:12The blood on that shoe is not just Estella's.
00:50:15There's also someone else's blood that doesn't match that former employee they've been pursuing.
00:50:21So whose blood is it?
00:50:24It's not the same guy that's on the door frame, which now throws a wrench into my case.
00:50:30The unknown DNA is entered into CODIS, and this time, a hit.
00:50:36There's a gentleman named Samuel Silva, who lived in the state of Colorado, who was identified as the source of
00:50:43the blood that was on Estella's shoe and the DNA on her pants.
00:50:48Sam Silva was killed before.
00:50:50Sam Silva's killed before.
00:50:51He was a violent felon.
00:50:52He was arrested for rape.
00:50:55He was arrested for attempted murder.
00:50:58All of this in Colorado.
00:50:59The main question now for the detective, was Samuel Silva ever in California?
00:51:07Hutch gets the answers by digging up Colorado probation reports, where officers once asked Silva if he ever lived outside
00:51:16of that state.
00:51:17And when the probation officer asked him, well, where were you and what were you doing?
00:51:21He said, I was living in Sunnyvale, California with my two brothers in 1978, which would have put him in
00:51:29my city and possibly crossing paths with my victim.
00:51:33Estella Mena was killed in 1979.
00:51:38The street in Sunnyvale where Silva lived was less than two miles from Western Electric.
00:51:45Matt Hutchison keeps digging.
00:51:48He finds a copy of a resume that belonged to Estella Mena.
00:51:52It turns out that before she worked at Western Electric, she worked here at Great America Amusement Park.
00:51:59And guess who else worked here?
00:52:03Sam Silva also previously worked at Great America.
00:52:08We don't know if they knew each other for sure, but maybe that's where he got to know her.
00:52:16And eventually, Carol, you hear the news that there's been a break in a case.
00:52:20Matt called me immediately when he got the news.
00:52:22So this part always makes me teary because that was such a, I mean, that just gets to your heart.
00:52:32And all these years, yeah, to finally hear that we had gotten this one done.
00:52:38That was like, that was a big day.
00:52:42But no matter how hard the detective keeps working the case, there'll be no arrest, no conviction.
00:52:50Samuel Silva had died years earlier.
00:52:57I know I can never put handcuffs on him.
00:52:59I can never tell the family that we got him.
00:53:02You still have a job to do.
00:53:05When I go to the family and I say, Samuel Silva is the person that did it, that's not all
00:53:11I'm going to tell them.
00:53:12I'm going to tell them why I believe that.
00:53:16It is my belief that she was the intended target of him coming to that business and that she either
00:53:22said no to him, I'm not interested or whatever it was that initiated an assault from him and she fought
00:53:29for her life.
00:53:31It was Estella's sister, Marta, seen here in a news report from our station KGO in San Francisco, who would
00:53:39grow up and coin a phrase that would one day make headlines.
00:53:45Marta, apparently a fairly religious person, told me that Matt had flew up and met with her.
00:53:51And she said that when he left, she turned her husband and said, that's one badass detective.
00:53:57There can be no better moment for me as an investigator than to tell them, it's done.
00:54:03We know who he is.
00:54:04He didn't get away with this.
00:54:09Touch is not done.
00:54:11Karen Stitt's killer is still very much alive.
00:54:15And the detective is closing in.
00:54:18I'm going to put handcuffs on the person that murdered Karen Stitt.
00:54:33In the decades long mystery of who killed 15 year old Karen Stitt, Sunnyvale has an answer of sorts.
00:54:42We knew who the killer was, except for his name.
00:54:46We had his DNA profile.
00:54:48We just needed to find a name to match that DNA.
00:54:51So they decide to enlist a lab on the East Coast that specializes in forensic genetic genealogy to try to
00:55:00figure out who their suspect is.
00:55:03When we send the DNA off for genealogy, we're taking that blood that we know belongs to a male, converting
00:55:08it to a genealogical sample to see if we can match to any of his relatives.
00:55:12We can then try to work backwards and figure out who he is.
00:55:17Hotch has a lot of hope, but it's immediately crushed.
00:55:21We get back three very distant relatives, all third cousins.
00:55:26The advice from the lab was move on to a different case.
00:55:29You're not going to solve this one.
00:55:31We're talking about people that are so remote, there's basically no chance that we're going to be able to build
00:55:38a family tree to narrow it down to this particular perpetrator.
00:55:42They said, Matt, do you know your third cousins?
00:55:46And I don't know any of them, so it made sense to me that this is going to be an
00:55:49uphill battle.
00:55:51He was a little bummed, but I know Matt, and I've known Matt for a long time, that that wasn't
00:55:57going to keep him down for too long.
00:56:00It's easy to feel sorry for yourself as a cold case investigator and say, well, you know, these cases are
00:56:06so dang hard.
00:56:07If I don't solve it, nobody's going to get mad at me.
00:56:09I'm just going to put it away.
00:56:10I quickly learned that I couldn't have that kind of attitude with Karen.
00:56:14I took her picture and I put it up on my desk right behind my phone.
00:56:19She's staring at me telling me, don't give up on my case.
00:56:22You can solve it.
00:56:23If three third cousins are as close as he can get, Hutch decides to start there.
00:56:29So I went about the task of, let me build this tree as big as I possibly can get it.
00:56:35From what he can see online, one of those third cousins has already built out an extensive family tree, potentially
00:56:43crucial investigative leads.
00:56:45But first, Hutch has to convince that cousin to help him.
00:56:50He left me a message and I remember laughing and I told my husband, wow, pranking and, you know, identity
00:56:57theft has reached a new level.
00:57:01A couple of days later, I received a text message.
00:57:04He sent me a picture of his business card and his officer badge on a table.
00:57:09He offers to fly to Texas and meet her in person.
00:57:13Still skeptical, she insists that their first contact has to be in a safe place.
00:57:20We met at the small police department where she lived and then told her who Karen was, told her why
00:57:24we needed her help.
00:57:25And she said, that's enough for me. Come back to my house and I'll give you everything I've got.
00:57:31It really struck me. He cared about Karen. He cared about her family. He cared about what happened to her.
00:57:37And so we rolled the family trees out on her kitchen table.
00:57:41All of the profiles of people who were living were basically blacked out.
00:57:45And he asked me if I would be willing to fill in all the blank spots.
00:57:50How many names did you wind up writing down for him?
00:57:54I want to say it was at least a hundred.
00:58:02Once I knew the specifics of the case, I went back into my family tree and started looking for people
00:58:07that I thought could potentially be a suspect.
00:58:11We're building the data, but we have no idea where to go with it at that point.
00:58:16I'm just waiting for something or someone to come along and help me.
00:58:20And that's exactly what happens one day after Hutch gives a talk on cold cases at the Sunnyvale Library.
00:58:29I get approached by three women afterwards and they say, well, we're daughters of the American Revolution.
00:58:34I said, that sounds really neat. What the heck does that mean?
00:58:38And they said, well, we've chased our DNA all the way back to the American Revolution.
00:58:42I said, wow, you guys seem like you're the experts.
00:58:46Have you ever thought about working for a police department?
00:58:48They keep their day jobs, but agree to volunteer on Karen's case, working with Hutch to fill in the blanks
00:58:56across the suspect's family tree.
00:58:59One day, his phone rings.
00:59:02There was one genealogist that kind of took the lead amongst the rest of them.
00:59:06And she called me and said, we have something.
00:59:10And she didn't talk like that in any of the other times I'd ever talked to her.
00:59:14So I start getting excited. I'm like, we have the guy?
00:59:17She goes, no, we don't have the guy, but there's this person.
00:59:20If you go out and you get their DNA, we'll know if we need to go after that person's cousins
00:59:26or if we need to go after that person's uncles.
00:59:30He's local. He's in San Jose, which is 10 minutes down the road.
00:59:35After a simple local trash grab one night, the results confirm Karen Stitt's killer
00:59:41is one of this man's three uncles.
00:59:45So we just took our pool of suspects from millions and you're never going to solve it,
00:59:52according to the genealogy lab, to there's three men in the world that it could be.
00:59:57And I'm bouncing off the walls at this point.
01:00:01My partner, Corinne, and I figure out that one of the uncles is living in North Las Vegas
01:00:05and we know it's trash day. We're going to collect his trash early in the morning
01:00:10and drive it all the way back the very next day.
01:00:18I was pretty excited, a little nervous.
01:00:23I remember it being very, very quiet.
01:00:29And it sounded like the loudest thing, just trying to pull the garbage bag out of the trash can.
01:00:36Nobody came out, but it felt like, you know, this is the loudest thing going on in the block.
01:00:42So we grabbed the trash and we immediately take off.
01:00:46We drove straight through the night back up to Santa Clara County.
01:00:50And then our crime lab comes back and says, oh yeah, this guy? No, he's not the killer.
01:00:54But you know what? One of his brothers is the killer.
01:00:56We've now shrunk the pool of suspects down to two.
01:00:59Determining which of the two brothers murdered Karen Stitt
01:01:03will require Matt and Corinne to go undercover
01:01:09and visit a psychic.
01:01:12She got a fake wedding ring and I wore my real one, of course,
01:01:15and we got our palms red.
01:01:16But we can't give her too much where it looks like we're cops.
01:01:20You got to be careful.
01:01:21For all I know, she's going to catch me.
01:01:31Investigators Matt Hutchison and Corinne Abernathy
01:01:34are steadily narrowing down their suspects in the 40-year-old murder of Karen Stitt.
01:01:41Through just working the leads and not giving up and building these family trees out,
01:01:45we narrowed it down to a group of four brothers.
01:01:48There was a lot of case discussion on which route we would take.
01:01:52And then it becomes a process of elimination.
01:01:54One by one, you got to go out and get their DNA.
01:01:57And that leaves us with two brothers, basically on opposite ends of the country.
01:02:00One was in Maine and one was on the island of Maui in Hawaii.
01:02:03It came down to Gary Ramirez and another brother.
01:02:08Gary lived in Maui.
01:02:10We ultimately ended up in Hawaii.
01:02:15We didn't know too much about the individual in Hawaii.
01:02:19We knew that he lived in Maui, but we didn't know precisely where.
01:02:23We had a good idea, but there was no way to verify if he was actually living in that particular
01:02:29house.
01:02:30Some of the last records on file of where he may possibly reside was this residence.
01:02:37So we had to get a little bit creative and see if there was a way that we could confirm
01:02:41that he was even living there.
01:02:43I did just an open source search on Google of the address and there's a pin on the address that
01:02:48says that there's a local psychic.
01:02:51A psychic.
01:02:51She's the landlord of the house and she does palm readings out of the residence itself.
01:03:02It's not every day that while you're investigating somebody, you have a ticket into their life and a way to
01:03:08get into their life without them knowing that you're there.
01:03:11And so we went as a married couple and my partner got a fake wedding ring and I wore my
01:03:16real one, of course.
01:03:17And we sat on her lanai and got our palms red.
01:03:22How about your name again?
01:03:23Corinne.
01:03:24Corinne.
01:03:24Can you name him?
01:03:25Matt.
01:03:25Matt.
01:03:27Okay.
01:03:29So he's more sensitive.
01:03:31Oh.
01:03:32That sounds all right.
01:03:35He is a very caring, compassionate man.
01:03:38Yeah.
01:03:38Yeah, absolutely.
01:03:40And he likes the truth.
01:03:42I won't cry.
01:03:43Oh no.
01:03:44You're not going to make me cry, are you?
01:03:46I try to make people cry.
01:03:49If you don't cry, I don't feel like I've done my job.
01:03:53In the time that I've worked with him, we know each other very well.
01:03:56So it was very easy to play off him and vice versa.
01:03:59He play off of me.
01:04:01But Matt would definitely try to get a little bit of, you know, information from her.
01:04:08And we created a backstory that we met at Fresno State.
01:04:11It's because our suspect who was living with her grew up in Fresno.
01:04:15We wanted to see if we drop a nugget, if she'll pick it up.
01:04:19That's really smart.
01:04:20I said I had a brother named Gary to try to see if she would take the bait.
01:04:23I've got two brothers.
01:04:24Uh-huh.
01:04:25Two older brothers, Gary and Jeff.
01:04:28They drive me crazy.
01:04:29You've got to be careful not to say too much and become too obvious.
01:04:32It's a balancing act.
01:04:33And she might be a psychic.
01:04:35For all I know, she's going to catch me.
01:04:37And it was a great opportunity for you.
01:04:39If nothing else, we got a look at the layout of the residence so that when we go and eventually
01:04:45make contact there, we're not going in blind.
01:04:48I could hear rustling from a garage that sounded like there was people probably living in there,
01:04:53like it was a converted dwelling.
01:04:54He was kind of lying low or just really under the radar.
01:04:59So that may have just been his normal pattern of life.
01:05:02She never took any of the bait.
01:05:04She just took our money.
01:05:06Forbidden by local laws from making a trash grab in Maui without a search warrant,
01:05:12Hutch and Corinne return to Sunnyvale and they devise a new plan.
01:05:17If they can test the DNA of the brothers' biological child,
01:05:22that could tell them if they found Karen's killer.
01:05:27The gentleman who lived in Maui had a daughter that lived in California.
01:05:30We had another mission to go down to San Diego.
01:05:35So same as Vegas, we devised a plan.
01:05:37We're going to drive all the way down to Southern California,
01:05:39collect the trash and drive it all the way back.
01:05:44I remember walking down the street with a garbage bag and safety lights come on,
01:05:50just porch lights and I felt like stadium lighting as I'm walking down the street with a trash bag.
01:05:55All I remember is I just, I need to get back to the car and now we gotta go.
01:05:59And we were able to go out and get a sample of her DNA as a means of
01:06:03testing against the sample of blood at the crime scene and essentially doing a paternity test.
01:06:08And we brought them back up here for testing.
01:06:10The crime lab report said, this is the daughter of the killer.
01:06:16And that's when we knew.
01:06:18It was Gary Ramirez.
01:06:21Bingo.
01:06:22The next step was to hook him up in Maui.
01:06:24We're going now. We have him now. We're going now.
01:06:28The paperwork we have to notify you of here is a warrant for your arrest.
01:06:41Once we knew that Gary was our guy.
01:06:43We filed a complaint charging him with murder.
01:06:45We're going to go and make an arrest in Hawaii.
01:06:50Did you know he was going to be there?
01:06:52We had a Maui detective call Gary and say,
01:06:55you might be the victim of identity theft. Can you call us back?
01:06:58And when we landed and tried to do a briefing with the local authorities,
01:07:03he called and said, I want to meet with you guys right now.
01:07:06Bingo.
01:07:07Everybody sitting around that briefing table looked at each other and said,
01:07:10we're going now.
01:07:15As we pulled up, I saw Gary Ramirez.
01:07:19Yeah, how you doing, sir?
01:07:20I recognized him from his photos.
01:07:23Yeah, we just have to verify who we're talking to
01:07:24so we can make sure we have the right investigation going.
01:07:26Do you have your ID? Do you have an ID?
01:07:28No, I have a realtor ID.
01:07:29Okay. Is that something that we can see?
01:07:32The paperwork we have to notify you of here,
01:07:34this is a warrant for your arrest.
01:07:36Warrant.
01:07:36So I'm going to have, I'm going to hold onto this.
01:07:38We're going to, we're going to do this right away,
01:07:39right off the bat for you.
01:07:41I'm not going to let you fall down or anything like that.
01:07:43Go ahead and turn that way and just keep your hands on your back for you.
01:07:48I knew 10 seconds from now,
01:07:50I'm going to put handcuffs on the person that murdered Karen Stitt.
01:07:55And they're not just any handcuffs.
01:07:57I took my stepdad's handcuffs from when he was in Oxford
01:07:59in the city of Sunnyvale.
01:08:02Because I wanted some representative of Karen from 1982
01:08:06to be part of that arrest.
01:08:07It meant that much to you?
01:08:10It meant that much to me,
01:08:11but I knew it meant that much to his generation of cops.
01:08:26His reaction?
01:08:27He tried to express surprise,
01:08:29but it didn't come off genuine to me at all.
01:08:32We'll get him to the car and then we'll explain it.
01:08:33We have a warrant for his arrest.
01:08:35I don't know what they did.
01:08:37For somebody to be accused of something so heinous,
01:08:40if they know they didn't do it,
01:08:42I would have expected much stronger denials.
01:08:45You have the wrong person.
01:08:46This is wrong.
01:08:51What did I do?
01:08:55Something's wrong.
01:08:56Hutch and Corinne drive Gary Ramirez
01:08:58to Maui's police department
01:09:00to be processed and questioned.
01:09:03This is kind of the moment,
01:09:05especially for Matt,
01:09:06where you ultimately want to try to get
01:09:07as much information as you can
01:09:09and just get the truth.
01:09:19The way he conducts those interviews,
01:09:23he's so good at getting people to be comfortable.
01:09:26It's a work of art.
01:09:27You're saying it's not you.
01:09:30I want as much explanation
01:09:31for how it's not you as possible
01:09:33so I can go find the guy that it is then.
01:09:35My goal in this is not to put the wrong guy in custody.
01:09:41I was careful not to tell him Karen's name,
01:09:44not to tell him the city of Sunnyvale.
01:09:46I wanted him on the defense.
01:09:48I wanted him to not know what I knew.
01:09:50And you said you used to work in sales, right?
01:09:52Yes.
01:09:53And you said car sales while you were in college?
01:09:56Yeah, I was in college, yeah.
01:09:59The violent nature of Karen's murder
01:10:01led me to believe that he could be responsible
01:10:03for other murders.
01:10:04I want to learn as much as I can about him.
01:10:06So Denver, Colorado, Libya,
01:10:07where'd you do your basic training?
01:10:09Uh, um, Blackman?
01:10:12Where's Blackman?
01:10:13Texas?
01:10:14Texas.
01:10:15Did you even get to get stationed anywhere
01:10:17in California close to home or anything?
01:10:19Uh, no.
01:10:21It's all right.
01:10:22I had fun.
01:10:23We talked to him about the places he had lived,
01:10:25jobs that he had.
01:10:27Jones Cleaners.
01:10:28I worked for them.
01:10:29And Jones Cleaners was out of Fresno?
01:10:31Yeah.
01:10:32Vehicles that he drove.
01:10:33I think I sold Mustang, and then I got the van.
01:10:38I always wanted the van.
01:10:39I wanted to fix it up, you know.
01:10:41But I just never got around to it.
01:10:43I mean, you wouldn't want a van when you're young,
01:10:45and you'd say, go hang out and party stuff inside.
01:10:49Yeah?
01:10:50Yeah.
01:10:51Did you ever have parties inside?
01:10:53Like, I know people would put, like, black light in there.
01:10:55I never had a girl in there.
01:10:57But remember, Hutch always believed it was possible
01:11:00Karen had been murdered in a vehicle
01:11:03and then left in that alley.
01:11:06We spent probably more than two hours with Gary
01:11:09before we ever talked about this case at all.
01:11:12That's strange, right?
01:11:13Very strange to me.
01:11:15And I actually confronted him about that.
01:11:17It's curious to me that you're under arrest for murder
01:11:18and you don't have any questions about that.
01:11:21I don't know.
01:11:22I mean, I don't know.
01:11:23You know what murder is though, right?
01:11:25Yeah.
01:11:26Killing a person?
01:11:27Yeah.
01:11:28Have you ever killed a person, Gary?
01:11:29No.
01:11:30When I told him, you're not even asking me
01:11:32what agency I work for, his response was,
01:11:35I know what agency you're from.
01:11:36You already told me. San Francisco.
01:11:39I didn't tell you that.
01:11:40I don't work in the city of San Francisco.
01:11:43Immediately, it's like a light bulb in my head thinking,
01:11:46what did you do in San Francisco that's causing you
01:11:48to believe that San Francisco police
01:11:50has shown up on your doorstep?
01:11:51Where do you work?
01:11:52I work in the city of San Diego, Gary.
01:11:54Where?
01:11:55Sunnyville.
01:11:56Okay.
01:11:59I don't know who that is.
01:12:01That's a 15-year-old girl, Gary.
01:12:04That's all?
01:12:06Is there ring a bell?
01:12:07Is that the right word?
01:12:08Okay.
01:12:08Is there any reason you can think of
01:12:12that I would have blood evidence,
01:12:15and that blood belongs to you?
01:12:18I don't know how that would happen.
01:12:20I don't know how that would happen.
01:12:22Are you curious how she was killed?
01:12:23That's horrible.
01:12:24How was she killed?
01:12:26You stabbed her 60 times, Gary.
01:12:28Oh, my God, no.
01:12:29I didn't do anything like that.
01:12:32This is awful, you guys.
01:12:34He invokes his right to an attorney.
01:12:36You guys are accusing something I didn't do.
01:12:37I'd like to have a lawyer if it's okay with you guys.
01:12:40And that means I'm done.
01:12:41I can't talk to him anymore.
01:12:43I've got to shut it down and walk out of the room.
01:12:44You got it, Gary.
01:12:46Even without a confession,
01:12:48Hutch is sure he has Karen's killer in custody.
01:12:51But he's waiting for one final confirmation.
01:12:56The DNA all says he did it.
01:12:58But the ultimate answer for prosecution
01:13:00and for me as a detective...
01:13:02Open your mouth.
01:13:03I'm going to swab one on each side.
01:13:05...is when we put that swab inside of his cheek
01:13:07and have that tested directly against the blood.
01:13:09Now we're going one-to-one.
01:13:11Is this the same person?
01:13:16A Sunnyvale Department of Public Safety detective
01:13:19flew it back, brought the sample to the lab.
01:13:26They worked this case 24 hours
01:13:28until they got the result.
01:13:30By about 3 a.m., I had the DNA results.
01:13:34I compared it to the evidence
01:13:36from the bloodstain from the jacket
01:13:38and it was an exact match.
01:13:44I remember being in bed,
01:13:46but something told me,
01:13:47wake up and look at your computer.
01:13:50And I had an email from the crime lab
01:13:52and it said Gary Ramirez is the person
01:13:53that killed Karen Stipp.
01:14:00Just like I had her picture at my desk all these years,
01:14:06I had her picture on my computer
01:14:08and I pulled it up and I said,
01:14:10Karen, we did it.
01:14:22I was just overwashed with emotion.
01:14:27I'm amazed and grateful that this day had finally came.
01:14:31Oh my God, 40 years later.
01:14:34You had never heard of this man prior to this?
01:14:36No, no, not at all.
01:14:37It was shocking to me.
01:14:39When he told me how old he was,
01:14:41I was bitter, to be perfectly honest with you,
01:14:44that this man got to live a full life
01:14:47and in return we lost Karen.
01:14:53When it's time to go to court,
01:14:55the man who loved Karen
01:14:57will finally face the man who killed her.
01:15:01I wanted to be there whenever he was present.
01:15:04I wanted to make eye contact with
01:15:06and straight-faced eye contact.
01:15:07But I want him to say I'm guilty
01:15:09and I want him to explain what he did.
01:15:19The case against Gary Ramirez never went to trial.
01:15:23Instead, the elderly Ramirez pleaded no contest
01:15:27for the murder of Karen Stitt.
01:15:29A maximum sentence for 78-year-old Gary Ramirez
01:15:32for first-degree murder.
01:15:34He was never separately charged
01:15:36for Karen's sexual assault.
01:15:38He entered court with a cane, long gray hair and glasses
01:15:42and sat silently looking forward or down
01:15:45as victims read their statements.
01:15:48Just everything came back about what he did to her
01:15:51and how brutal he was to her
01:15:54and how he threw her away like trash.
01:15:59But I was able to get through it,
01:16:01told him what I thought about him
01:16:03and I hope he heard every word.
01:16:05She was stabbed nearly 60 times.
01:16:07He was just looking straight ahead.
01:16:09So there was no eye contact or no reaction from him
01:16:12when any of us spoke.
01:16:15I would love to talk to Gary Ramirez.
01:16:17Tell me what happened that night.
01:16:21Why he chose Karen, where he chose Karen.
01:16:24Just to be honest and tell the truth
01:16:25instead of, you know, copping out and pleading no contest.
01:16:31Forty years of freedom, lived through the prime of his life,
01:16:35probably acting like nothing happened, you know.
01:16:39He may even still try to deny it in his own head.
01:16:46There's a cost to solving cold cases,
01:16:49a psychological one.
01:16:53They're going to haunt me too.
01:16:54There's just no way around that.
01:16:56They get into your soul
01:16:58and these cases will affect me for the rest of my life.
01:17:02There's also an emotional toll paid.
01:17:05For Matt Hutchison, providing closure for other families
01:17:09sometimes comes at the expense of his own.
01:17:13There's times I have to give my little boys a hug and a kiss goodbye
01:17:17and say, I'm going to be gone for three or four days
01:17:18and you're not going to understand why.
01:17:21But what I always try to do is I would tell my sons,
01:17:24I need you to work the case with me.
01:17:26And they'd say, well, what does that mean, Dad?
01:17:28And it says, I'd say, you take care of Mom
01:17:30because I have to go take care of Karen.
01:17:33I have to go take care of Estella.
01:17:37You...
01:17:41Hutch gets to know each of the families,
01:17:45and the Mena family has treated him with open arms.
01:17:49They're almost like extended family now.
01:17:51Her...
01:17:52They call me Sobrino, which is really cool.
01:17:56Sobrino means nephew.
01:17:58After her case was solved, they held a memorial mass for her
01:18:01and they invited me to be a part of it
01:18:05and then afterwards they had a reception
01:18:06and I got to just sit with her family and hear stories,
01:18:09stories that don't make it into a police report.
01:18:12Matt Hutchison will be the first to say
01:18:15he didn't solve these cases alone.
01:18:19It was all of us. It's not just me.
01:18:21I was able to still test blood and clothing and different things
01:18:24and get DNA on them 40-plus years after the crime
01:18:28because the investigators collected them.
01:18:31They had no idea about DNA technology then,
01:18:34but the evidence they collected
01:18:36is what ultimately led to both of these cases being solved.
01:18:41I think it's really significant and impactful
01:18:45that both in the Karen Stitt case
01:18:48and in the Estella Mena case,
01:18:50key players and key personnel were volunteers.
01:18:55You ever allow yourself to acknowledge that you were so much more
01:19:00than just a volunteer file clerk?
01:19:03That's what I did though.
01:19:05Some people would call you a hero.
01:19:07Um, no.
01:19:11No. I was organizing files, helping Matt.
01:19:16And you'd do it all over again?
01:19:17Absolutely.
01:19:20I'll do whatever I can to get more of these cases worked.
01:19:23If more of them get worked, more of them get solved.
01:19:26And I hope all the Gary Ramirez's of the world
01:19:31and the Samuel Silvas of the world are living in fear
01:19:34for the knock on the door that's coming.
01:19:39A promise and a warning backed up by the numbers.
01:19:42Detective Hutch tells us that he's very close to making an arrest
01:19:45on an eighth cold case now.
01:19:47Of course, we'll stay on that.
01:19:48Absolutely, we will.
01:19:48And while he continues to investigate,
01:19:50Hutch has not connected Gary Ramirez
01:19:53to any additional crimes in California.
01:19:55We reached out to Ramirez for comment, David,
01:19:57but we did not hear back.
01:19:59That's our program for tonight.
01:20:01Thanks so much for watching.
01:20:02I'm Deborah Roberts.
01:20:03And I'm David Muir from all of us here at ABC News in 2020.
01:20:06Good night.
01:20:17I'm David Muir from all of us here.
01:20:18I'm David Muir from there.
01:20:22Thank you so much here.
01:20:23I'll be here.
01:20:24When you take a bill.
01:20:24You're up for now.
01:20:34I'm 25.
01:20:36You
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