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00:00Previously on Sister Wives One-on-One,
00:05let's take a look at this clip.
00:07I got in this place where I was like,
00:09backdoor deal almost with Janelle.
00:11Hey, we'll just sell it out from under these other two.
00:13How are they?
00:15That is so wrong.
00:17I'm so mad.
00:20Why is Janelle calling this a power play by you?
00:24Because she got caught backstabbing Mary, I guess.
00:28I don't know.
00:29There was no backdoor deal.
00:31There wasn't.
00:32I wanted to apologize for how we broke up,
00:36for how it all went down.
00:39I want to apologize for being angry about it.
00:42Where in the hell is Robin at?
00:44This is weird.
00:45Your ex-husband across the table from you saying,
00:48I did love you.
00:49Shouldn't it have been couples?
00:50Why wasn't Robin there?
00:53So why didn't you go?
00:56Because this isn't about me.
00:58Okay.
00:59I can appreciate that David was offended,
01:01but if I feel like telling Christine I love her,
01:05or that I loved her,
01:07that's not breaking bro code to me.
01:09That was part of his testimony,
01:11and sort of his enlightenment.
01:13That's not my problem.
01:14That he wanted to be able to release the people in his life so they can go on and live their lives.
01:20Oh, so you're his property then, huh?
01:21Yeah.
01:22Is that the way you put it?
01:23Is that the property?
01:24This is Sister Wives One-on-One.
01:31Is that a release?
01:33That doesn't make any sense at all.
01:35When Christine says she was done and she left, that point she was gone.
01:39There was no releasing from him on that part.
01:42That means that he has control of her.
01:45That's a power play.
01:46That's a power game.
01:48Mental game.
01:49You don't do that to a human being.
01:51Would Robin being there made it better?
01:53Made this whole conversation a little bit more comfortable,
01:56especially the whole, I did love you part?
01:58I don't think you should have said it at all.
02:00Okay.
02:01Even if Robin was present.
02:02No, no, no.
02:03All he needed to do was say, I apologize for my actions.
02:06And then let's let it go.
02:07Let it go with that.
02:08He could just say apologize for my actions and then leave it there.
02:12If Robin was there, I think the whole thing would have been like,
02:15okay, maybe we can go ahead and make some things work and things like that.
02:19With him not bringing her, I thought it was disrespectful to her
02:23for him to say that without her there.
02:25Okay, so there's no trip in the Moab in the future.
02:28Oh, God.
02:29No, there's no trip in Moab.
02:30He wouldn't go with me.
02:31We are not going to do that.
02:32I think Christine was maybe a little offended.
02:35She was offended about the apology.
02:38Oh.
02:39Yeah.
02:40She was offended about the apology?
02:41Well, I think she was like, you know, this is my husband.
02:44She felt like it was inappropriate.
02:46You know, I don't need you to say that you love me in front of my husband.
02:49Oh, okay.
02:50Yeah, so I don't know where else he would have said it except for trying to be responsible.
02:54That's why he wanted David there.
02:56Like, this is appropriate enough because he's here.
02:59I'm not saying this while her husband's not there.
03:01Got it.
03:02And that was a big deal for him to say because it was so wrong of him to say and really not a truth.
03:09Do you think he can ever be friends?
03:11Um, I don't know the answer to that.
03:17That doesn't mean that we can't be friends.
03:21It means we should be friendly until trust is re... until trust is resurrected because it's dead.
03:32Mm-hmm.
03:33All right.
03:34So Janelle had the honor of being the first wife that you gave the olive branch to to receive your apology.
03:41Yeah.
03:42To be fair, I wanted to go to Janelle first because I thought she'd be the kindest.
03:47If I had to pick somebody who was going to do this first with...
03:50But I had made everything right with Coyote Pass with her.
03:53I'd made everything right with her on all of our property agreements.
03:56So I figured that it'd be the safest going that direction.
04:00She was calm.
04:01She was clear.
04:02And the conversation, it felt... it felt good.
04:05But let's take a look at it and we'll explain where your head was when you were talking and giving the apology.
04:12I think the meanest thing that I did was I said I didn't love you.
04:19That wasn't true.
04:21That was a lie from the perspective of pain.
04:24I knew.
04:25I knew it.
04:26I knew that you loved me.
04:27I did.
04:28Like, I know that we had a great relationship.
04:32Because I knew... I knew how it was for all those years.
04:35Do you know what I mean?
04:37When you and I got married, I remember this affection that we shared.
04:44I wish I would have seen the need for you and I to protect our special place.
04:53If I would have understood that, I think it would have been a lot safer for you.
04:59I feel like I put you in harm's way.
05:03And then it didn't step up to protect you.
05:08Wow.
05:10Because I frequently would think about you and I and become very, very aware of how unsafe plural marriage was for you.
05:24And for that.
05:25And the fact that I didn't protect...
05:28We didn't know.
05:29We didn't have no idea.
05:30But there was no book or anyone advising us.
05:34No, there wasn't.
05:35But it was like...
05:37And I don't even want to blame plural marriage as difficult as that situation is.
05:41No, it was just that we didn't know how to protect our relationship.
05:44I feel like we've needed an olive branch, the entire family.
05:47And Janelle, you get the high owner.
05:50What?
05:51And being the person I felt the safest with to start offering that olive branch.
05:56I think Janelle is like processing because there was a lot thrown out there.
05:59But what really stuck out to me was the fact that you're apologizing for the early years.
06:04Where both of you were unsafe and you're getting emotional thinking about it right now.
06:08I remember the experience when we first got married.
06:12There was just a desire she had to be a safe place for me.
06:20And we didn't protect it well enough.
06:25We lost the plot.
06:27How?
06:28There's a perceived loss of resource, I guess, when you enter into plural marriage.
06:33Get that second wife.
06:34Neither of them feel like they're getting enough.
06:36They start competing to get more.
06:39There's a lot of times I felt like it cost me my own happiness because I couldn't ever keep them happy.
06:44It was like I was empathetic enough to go, well, she's not happy and she's not happy.
06:49And it was just a mixture of just a major struggle.
06:55Your overall reaction?
06:56Yeah, I mean, it was very sweet.
06:59I thought it was very sweet.
07:00And there was definitely, you know, old time connection, I think, between us.
07:03Some of that old nostalgia.
07:05But what was the most healing, I think, for me was to hear him apologize about the early years.
07:11Because we really did struggle on how to live plural marriage.
07:16How did you end up coming into the family?
07:18Was it Mary that brought you into the family?
07:21No, actually, they both sort of pursued me.
07:25Oh, they both courted you.
07:26I guess.
07:27I, like, I had started to, I had really started to, like, embrace the faith, like, fundamentalist approach to the faith.
07:37So I was already there.
07:38I was already kind of leaning into that.
07:40And Cody and Mary were my friends.
07:44There was always, like, a little bit of a sparkle, I guess.
07:49Mm-hmm.
07:50You know?
07:51And you have to realize, when we get, when you get married and you're not, and you're already married, you know, if someone's already married and you're considering marrying them, there's not a lot of dating.
08:03There's not a lot of getting to know each other.
08:05It's more like a very spiritual thing.
08:07There's a lot of prayer involved, a lot of spiritual kind of whisperings or inklings, inspiration, that that's where you belong.
08:16What were the early years like for the three of you?
08:18Because they, he's alluding to certain things, so I'm just curious.
08:21The early years were a challenge, you know?
08:24We're all very young.
08:25Yeah.
08:26We had history even in the early years, you know what I mean?
08:31History meaning the connection to each other?
08:33Yeah.
08:34Let me do the math.
08:35So you and Janelle were friends.
08:37Janelle and I were sisters-in-law.
08:39She was married to my brother.
08:40You were sister-in-law.
08:41Okay.
08:42So Janelle and you were sisters-in-law.
08:43Mm-hmm.
08:44And then you married Cody.
08:45Mm-hmm.
08:46And then Janelle came into the family through you?
08:50Um, I wouldn't say through me, but that's how she and Cody knew each other because she was my sister-in-law.
08:57Okay.
08:59She was always really close with my parents after she and my brother split, which was after Cody and I got married.
09:08Um, and she just kind of was present, you know?
09:12So we, we stayed in each other's lives.
09:15So how did you become sister wives then?
09:18Well, they decided that it was a good connection and she was interested in plural marriage and we all talked about it.
09:30He and I talked about it.
09:31They talked about it.
09:32That's just how it works.
09:33And you prayed and that's how it was.
09:35Yeah.
09:36Yeah.
09:37So when we were all first married, we all lived together in a very small trailer.
09:42And personality conflicts between Mary and I, what they were, it was pretty volatile.
09:50It could have been.
09:51It was pretty volatile.
09:52But what were you guys fighting about if it was volatile?
09:54Like...
09:55No, like it was just nitpicky.
09:56Like I, I didn't clean the dishes right or I, um...
10:02You brought up the dishes last time I asked this question.
10:05Yeah.
10:06So the dishes were a big thing.
10:07Yeah, it was a thing.
10:08It was a thing.
10:09Like I remember, you know, just little things.
10:10Like little, when you're just being nitpicky with someone, just finding all those things.
10:13Right?
10:14I can remember one time, um, the argument was about that I didn't put the drain catcher
10:23thingy in.
10:24So too much food or too much stuff was going down the drain when we washed dishes.
10:28Well, I just started putting a lot more food down the drain.
10:31I'm like, I'll show you.
10:34But it was just like sort of childish, but I think it was just a symptom.
10:40It was an expression of the conflict, I think, that you're going through as you sort out
10:45who you are, who your identity is, and being strong and understanding that you have worth
10:49and you are equal.
10:51Well, Janelle mentioned that there was a lot of moments that was very tense.
10:55Yeah.
10:56What were you guys fighting about?
10:57I don't, I don't know.
10:58That was like 30 something years ago.
11:00I know, I know that she likes to bring up the way that the towels were, were folded
11:05or something like that, you know?
11:06Dishes.
11:07She brought up dishes.
11:08Dishes.
11:09How the dishes were washed.
11:10Oh, she always liked to do the dishes in the morning, like after they sat all night.
11:16And I'm like, let's just wake up in the morning and have a clean kitchen.
11:20Let's get them done at night, you know?
11:21And so there was feelings about stupid things like dishes.
11:26You know what I mean?
11:27So my point in saying all that is it's dumb stuff that we thought was important and you
11:34look back and it's like, it's really not.
11:36But it caused challenges.
11:38I tried to tell them, don't talk to me about your problems with each other.
11:43You've got to work those out yourself because I felt like one's pitting me against the other.
11:48And so I finally said, you guys have got to start working out these problems.
11:53And they didn't.
11:55They worked out very poorly.
11:57They, and I probably should have been back in there refereeing, but I'm a terrible referee.
12:03So did you feel like you were unable to protect Janelle from Mary?
12:08Or vice versa.
12:10You know what I'm saying?
12:11It's like, it wasn't a matter of protecting Janelle from Mary or protecting Mary from Janelle.
12:17It was a matter that whatever it was, there was a dissatisfaction in the experience.
12:25But you also mentioned in the apology that, you know, you put Janelle in harm's way.
12:29What did you mean by that?
12:30There's a difficulty and a struggle that I couldn't protect her from and that my efforts in loving her or reassuring her maybe weren't strong enough, focused enough.
12:51I know she didn't feel safe.
12:53Maybe Mary didn't either, but Mary fought different.
13:00And so she seemed like she was perfectly fine.
13:04Looking back, I, I don't know what I could have done, but I'm sorry that I didn't do it.
13:12I, I, I'm just...
13:18How did Mary fight that was different than Janelle?
13:20Yeah, she just willing to scrap, willing to scrap.
13:25When you say scrap, what does that mean?
13:26She's just willing to get right in your face and, and, and do the yelling and the, and the escalation and the fighting.
13:34It's just like, and in front of anybody.
13:37Does plural marriage not allow space for that emotional intimacy?
13:41I don't know, I don't know how it could.
13:53Yeah.
13:54And I don't like to throw lifestyles under the bus.
13:57You know, this is, some people I'm sure find great satisfaction in their plural marriages, but I think most people don't.
14:03So as far as emotional intimacy means that when you're with someone, you're really with them.
14:11And you love them for that person.
14:12It's not like there's always someone else in back.
14:15Cause go on a trip with Cody.
14:17Well, I know that he has wives at home and I know that he has relationships with those wives at home.
14:22And that was always on his mind.
14:24You know, even though he's trying to compartmentalize, I know that it, how can it be possible?
14:30How can it?
14:31Do you think the other wives would agree with you that Cody is capable of emotional intimacy?
14:36I don't know if I care if they would agree with that anymore.
14:42Not to be rude, but I just can't worry about that anymore.
14:45I know that he is, and I know that he did in the past.
14:48In the past, I saw it and I, I, yeah, I witnessed it.
14:54So in the early years, did you not have enough emotional resources in the tank to love two women at the same time?
15:03No, I had enough resources in the tank to love two women at the same time, but they've got to accept the love.
15:08They've got to, it's like, if you're super high maintenance, it's going to become a problem probably.
15:13Who was high maintenance?
15:14Well, Janelle wasn't.
15:15Coming up.
15:18When you asked me to go back in the past and think about it, my head starts to spin.
15:24Like there was nothing I could do.
15:26Cody and Janelle failed to recognize that possibly some of the issues that I had in polygamy could have stemmed from the fact that, oh, they wanted to get married on my birthday.
15:41They're like, it doesn't matter, we'll just celebrate it a different day.
15:44Like, excuse me, it does matter.
15:47Who was high maintenance?
15:53Well, Janelle wasn't.
15:55So Mary was high maintenance.
15:56Yeah, and then, and then in that, um, and if I was to sit and go back and analyze, I, I loved Janelle.
16:05Um, but Mary was more emotionally open.
16:16I don't understand that.
16:17Can you explain that, please?
16:18Oh, gosh.
16:19Um.
16:20You loved Janelle, but Mary was more emotionally open.
16:24Mary was, um.
16:27But in the same breath, you said that Mary was high maintenance.
16:31She was, eh.
16:32And when you asked me to go back in the past and think about it, my head starts to spin.
16:39Like there was nothing I could do.
16:42And there's nothing I could say, do, or behave like to make that experience.
16:49Pleasant and easy perpetually.
16:56And I'm not talking about the difficulties in a regular marriage.
17:00This is way beyond that.
17:02And if I hadn't have been like ridiculously optimistic, I don't know if we would have survived.
17:09I had a lot of emotions based on the way that, for instance, Janelle came into the family.
17:16And the way that, you know, like just different situations like that.
17:21Explain that, that one about Janelle coming into the family.
17:23Oh, well people don't.
17:27I'm not just going to say people, I'm going to say Cody.
17:29Cody and Janelle failed to recognize that possibly some of the issues that I had in polygamy could have stemmed from the fact that,
17:40oh, they wanted to get married on my birthday.
17:45They had planned to get married on my birthday.
17:47It wasn't until his mom got involved and was like, no, don't do that.
17:51Yeah, they were, they're like, it doesn't matter.
17:53We'll just celebrate it a different day.
17:55Like, excuse me, it does matter.
17:58You know, so let's, let's start the, the marriage relationship, the family relationship with that.
18:03And they forget that, oh, there might have been some emotions involved with the fact that she used to be married to my brother.
18:12I always wondered that.
18:14So tell me what kind of emotions were involved with that.
18:17There's a lot of emotion.
18:19There's a lot of emotion.
18:20She has said, she has said that when she met Cody, she had these feelings of, oh my goodness, I, I knew him.
18:33It's like I met this person that I just, you know, it's like he was part of me.
18:37I don't remember exactly her words.
18:39I don't want to put words into her mouth.
18:42I had one of those moments before I even started to consider being in their family and I didn't even know what to do with it.
18:48I was at Mary's house cause I was, I knew Mary's family and we were, they were having a bunch of people over for something I don't remember.
18:58And Cody walked in the room and it was the first time I'd seen him.
19:01And there was this moment of like, oh, there you are.
19:04Kind of like you remember somebody that you haven't seen for a long time.
19:08It was very distinct, but I, I, I wasn't, I wasn't even hanging out with them really as friends.
19:14And I just put it away cause I'm like, I don't know what that means.
19:16And then all of a sudden you're being asked to be a part of this plural marriage.
19:20Did Cody know that you saw him at Mary's house and that you had this feeling?
19:25I think I told him later and actually I asked to be in their family.
19:28They never asked me.
19:29Oh, I knew them as a couple and I just felt inspired to say, look, I think I belong in your family.
19:36And so we went and spoke to the church leadership and we all fasted and prayed together.
19:43And we felt like it was the right thing.
19:46Like it was just this very intense thing.
19:49And I, and I remember her saying that when she saw him, she wanted her sons to have his build.
19:59Cody's got a nice build, right?
20:01And she wanted that.
20:02And I'm just like, you don't think that those things might be a little bit troublesome to the wife that you used to be the sister-in-law of?
20:13You know what I mean?
20:14So my point in saying that is not to throw him or her under the bus.
20:19It's just to say, these are facts.
20:22I had emotions and I was the one who was in trouble for having these emotions.
20:29Now, I was probably in trouble more for how I reacted because you know what?
20:34Sometimes I would cry and sometimes I would like, come on, Cody, I need some more attention.
20:39Okay, so you're not even married to Cody and you're having these feelings already.
20:44Why didn't you say no to Janelle coming into the family?
20:48No, no, no. I didn't have these feelings until she was coming into the family.
20:52Okay.
20:53Because I didn't know that she had those thoughts until she was coming into the family and even later after she was in the family.
21:00But you knew that she had already been married to your brother and you had those intense feelings about that.
21:05Yeah. That aspect of it, I mean, when you think about it, that's weird. That's awkward. That's uncomfortable.
21:13Yeah.
21:14It was very uncomfortable.
21:15But you never said anything like, hey, Cody, that's awkward. She used to be married to my brother.
21:19I did.
21:20Now you want to marry her and bring her into this polygamous family.
21:24Yeah, I did. We talked about it. But, like, I was not supposed to have those thoughts or feelings or emotions about it.
21:33Like, I was the one who was in the wrong for having those.
21:36Why?
21:37We're supposed to door to the end and we're supposed to live this way because this is what's gonna, you know, we're gonna gain salvation from it, whatever.
21:45Right? There's this ideal that everyone has to be a perfect wife, a perfect sister wife, a perfect, and then you add on to all this perfection that you want to hit.
21:53And, yeah, no, you feel insecure about things. You feel jealous about things. All of it.
21:58The whole thing suffering to the end, endure to the end, all of that, it's just sad.
22:03It's just sad that it's this religious expectation that makes you this better person, and it's just hard.
22:11Um, let's talk a little bit about this next clip that we want to get to.
22:16And it was really a candid conversation.
22:18You have a lot of discussions, which is interesting to see over this past year.
22:22Yeah.
22:23You have discussions on even polygamy.
22:24And the next clip that I want to really talk about is your differing views on polygamy.
22:28Let's take a look at this clip, and then we'll talk after.
22:31Cool.
22:32My thing was, look, if I'm having a bad time with Cody in a bad situation,
22:38I don't see him being physically affectionate with other wives in front of me, like a slap in the face.
22:43All it does is create a lot of hate, a lot of jealousy, a lot of control.
22:48I've definitely seen that.
22:49I've talked to friends that their biggest thing is, you know what I love about polygamy?
22:53Is they compete for my love.
22:56Mind games start playing in your head, and you start thinking,
22:58well, what's that person doing that I'm not doing? Can I do better?
23:01And the guy has an ego.
23:03Oh, they love the fighting. They love the competition between the women.
23:07I didn't feel like I was being controlled by Cody.
23:10They teach you that it makes you better.
23:12Oh, no, the famous quote is, endure to the end.
23:15Endure to the end, if you can imagine.
23:17That's sad.
23:18I don't know, it's an interesting idea in the church culture that we came from,
23:23that suffering was going to make you better.
23:26I didn't handle myself the best all the time.
23:30I remember being very jealous.
23:32I thought I was living polygamy wrong.
23:34I thought I was a human being wrong.
23:36I thought I was a woman wrong, a wife wrong.
23:39I couldn't even have a baby, for heaven's sakes.
23:42It was hard.
23:43So, Christine, do you agree with David's perception of polygamy?
23:48I think, overall, it's just hard.
23:51I just can't look at it like that, because I have a family that still lives it.
23:55But then it comes down to it, and he's right.
23:58He's right.
23:59I see more sadness in polygamy than anything else.
24:03I look at so many polygamous families, and they don't look happy.
24:06It's just sad.
24:07It's like, what is the secret sauce here that convinces women to be okay with their husband
24:15having this other relationship with this other woman, but it makes you better.
24:19So, it's okay.
24:20What is the secret that they tell them?
24:22What is it, you know?
24:23So, it was part of my culture.
24:25So, do you feel like you were indoctrinated into the culture?
24:27Probably.
24:28I would say it would be indoctrinated.
24:30Yeah, I would say so.
24:31I'm looking on the other side from my experience since I was, you know, two, three years old
24:37into it, that if this is supposed to be a so righteous thing, why is it so miserable?
24:44So, how is it so right?
24:48When I saw David, it just made my stomach just turn, because I think it's wrong to paint
24:53everybody with the brush of your one experience.
24:55And I'm not denying that his sister had this experience.
24:59And I think lots of things happen in monogamy.
25:01I think lots of things happen in all kinds of relationships that can be really screwed up.
25:05Janelle took issue with your description of, you know, polygamy.
25:10And she said it was a very broad brush stroke of what it actually is.
25:15And what you experienced isn't necessarily what other people experienced.
25:20My question to her is, where did you guys go in your family?
25:24Where did it end up now?
25:25They're not together anymore.
25:27And I'm not trying to do that because it can happen in monogamous.
25:30I was going to say monogamous couples also divorced.
25:32I've experienced it in a lot of different religions.
25:35But when I was talking, I was talking about my own experience.
25:39Why she took it personally, I have no idea.
25:42Because I wasn't referring to your guys' church at all.
25:45I was talking about my relationship from what I've been since I was a kid down in Mexico.
25:52I think David thinks he knows a lot about plural marriage.
25:55I think he was a kid when his sister was struggling through it and he wanted to protect his sister.
25:59I think he might have noble thoughts about it, but I don't think he knows that much about it.
26:02He associated with a bunch of construction workers that were polygamists or something.
26:07And, you know, I've met some polygamist construction workers that I thought were pigs.
26:13So his reflection has nothing to do with our family.
26:16I hated it when my wives weren't getting along.
26:18When he talks about polygamists wanting their wives to be jealous and stuff like that.
26:22But you did mention that Janelle and Mary used to compete for attention.
26:31Coming up...
26:32Do you think most polygamists have to have a big ego?
26:35I think that it would be better if you didn't.
26:39I think that having a big ego is what causes problems.
26:43Do you think Cody has a big ego?
26:45Yeah.
26:46Are you okay with his big ego?
26:48It's fine. It's not my problem anymore.
26:52You did mention that Janelle and Mary used to compete for attention.
27:01I wasn't promoting that.
27:03Do you understand what I'm saying?
27:05He's talking about men who are promoting that.
27:08I think that's sick and wrong.
27:10This is my point, is David was looking into polygamy.
27:14I was in it.
27:16He doesn't know anything about it other than from his outside experience.
27:21Which means that he doesn't know Jack.
27:24But David doesn't know that he doesn't know Jack .
27:27Because David thinks he knows Jack .
27:29Now, I've lived plural marriage long enough to know that I don't know Jack .
27:33But David still thinks he knows Jack .
27:35But he doesn't know Jack .
27:37I think he means well.
27:39And you know what, when you're having a candid conversation like that, you're just talking off the handle.
27:45He had an experience and it made him angry about polygamy.
27:50I've been around a lot longer than he's been in it.
27:53I have.
27:54I've witnessed and seen the heartaches of many women down in Mexico.
27:59Being around with my mom and listening to these women all talk.
28:03Listening to the guys talk down there.
28:05It's not like it's a fresh thing since I met Christine.
28:08All of a sudden, I know polygamy.
28:09I know polygamy.
28:10Now, I've been around it my whole life.
28:11I can tell you stories after stories about what happens down there.
28:16And for him to say, that's fine.
28:19But I do know a lot about it.
28:21I have never lived it.
28:22I don't have to understand about how hard it is to have a baby to have one.
28:27You can see it.
28:29Do you believe that Cody has a big ego?
28:31All guys have eagles.
28:32It depends on how big or wherever it's at.
28:35But he does have an ego.
28:36Mm-hmm.
28:37In the polygamous sector, it is an ego there.
28:39I've had friends that were that way.
28:41They loved it.
28:42One guy said, one of my friends said one time when I was younger,
28:45you've got to get in polygamy.
28:47It is so much fun.
28:48The competing is awesome.
28:50Do you agree with David's take on this?
28:53I, David's, um...
28:57David's sister was in a different group.
29:02And so that might have been the experience that he had,
29:07but that's not what I ever, ever heard about and saw in my church.
29:12Mm-hmm.
29:13Do you think most polygamists have to have a big ego?
29:16I think that it would be better if you didn't.
29:19I think that having a big ego is what causes the problems.
29:23Does Cody have the big ego?
29:25Cody definitely has a big ego.
29:26He always has.
29:27But, like, I enjoy him.
29:29He's fun, right?
29:30He's fun to hang out with.
29:32He's charismatic.
29:34He's a little bit too cocky.
29:37I don't like cocky.
29:39And that kind of goes along with ego.
29:41So there's times that he does have that.
29:45Mm.
29:46Do you think Cody has a big ego?
29:48Yeah.
29:49Are you okay with his big ego?
29:51It's fine.
29:52It doesn't...
29:53It's not my problem anymore.
29:54Yeah.
29:55But I think he has an ego, and I think that's okay.
29:57Do you think all men have to have a big ego in order to be a polygamist?
30:01I think you have to feel pretty confident in who you are.
30:04I don't think it...
30:05An ego can be misconstrued.
30:07Like, I think a healthy ego is a good thing.
30:10To feel confident in who you are and being able to lead.
30:13Yeah.
30:14I think that's great.
30:15Okay.
30:16But an ego, like he's talking about machismo or whatever, like, where it's like, I'm the
30:20man.
30:21Yeah.
30:22Like, that's not...
30:23That wouldn't be good.
30:24Did you feel that Cody wanted you guys competing for his love?
30:28No.
30:29I never felt like that.
30:30I never felt like I had to compete.
30:32So, do you agree with David about the women having to have to compete with each other for
30:37a man's affection in polygamy?
30:39I have seen that happen, and I don't agree that it has to happen.
30:46I've seen it happen with us.
30:49I've seen it happen in other families.
30:52I've seen it in our family where Cody is willing and able to show love to all of us.
31:00So, I don't agree that it's something that you could just put a blanket statement on.
31:07Have you ever had that feeling?
31:09That feeling that you had to compete for affection?
31:15Coming up...
31:16No.
31:17I'm just here to apologize.
31:18No, I'm gonna tell you this, Cody.
31:19I'm gonna tell you.
31:20You're not gonna shut me down anymore.
31:22Okay?
31:23So, I'm gonna finish what I'm saying.
31:25Were you surprised that you demanded what you demanded from him?
31:31No, because I'm done being walked all over by him.
31:36Mm-hmm.
31:37And I don't think that he knows what to do with that.
31:47Have you ever had that feeling?
31:49That feeling that you had to compete for affection?
31:53You know, I've never felt like that I had to compete, but I did look at myself and be like, okay, what do I need to change to be accepted and change to be loved and change to be welcomed in?
32:08Did you feel like you really did everything wrong?
32:10There were definitely times in my life that I didn't feel like anything that I could do was right.
32:17I mean, I said it.
32:19Like, I couldn't even have a baby.
32:20Something was wrong with me.
32:22You know?
32:23I mean, I finally did, but then I couldn't have any more.
32:26And I don't think that any of them thought I was wrong necessarily for having feelings and emotions, but I don't know how empathetic they were with it.
32:36Right.
32:37You know, watching them all have babies when I couldn't.
32:41Right.
32:42You know what I mean?
32:43Right.
32:44It's just one thing to watch my sisters or friends or whatever have babies when I want them.
32:50Right.
32:51It's a whole other level to watch my husband have them with other people.
32:55The fact that Mary was feeling that she just had one kid that she felt less than.
33:00That was a...
33:01Had she ever shared that with everybody?
33:02Yeah.
33:03Like, can you help me process this?
33:04Can we...
33:05Oh, yeah.
33:06And like, there were special circumstances.
33:09Like, each of us would go and tell Mary when we were pregnant before we would tell anyone else.
33:14Mm-hmm.
33:15To help her be able to have the time to process that in time.
33:17You know, just to let her feel supported in that and say, you know, I know this is hard for you and I am pregnant and I love you.
33:27And that's why I offered to do surrogacy for her.
33:31Because I was trying to support that part of her pain and her story.
33:37I could go back and I can say they didn't honor me or they didn't...
33:42They had too much contention with each other.
33:46I could sit and blame everything on them.
33:48Yeah.
33:49And what it was is I was just over my head in leadership that I couldn't manage.
33:54And with that, I want to talk about Mary's apology.
33:57Okay.
33:58Okay.
33:59You sit down with Mary and you offer an apology for years of hurt.
34:04And what we're gonna see in the clip is that Mary pushes back.
34:09Ooh.
34:10And she pushes back really hard.
34:11And it was a tough conversation.
34:13I want you to take a look at the clip and then we'll talk about it.
34:16Okay.
34:17I apologize, Mary, for my part in everything that happened.
34:26Everything.
34:30I apologize.
34:32I want you more than anything to just be able to move on.
34:35I have.
34:37The way your friends talk about me, that doesn't seem like it.
34:40But I wanted you to be able to do that.
34:42Okay.
34:43You can stop right there.
34:44Listen, this isn't a time for us to fight.
34:46Well, then don't bring up my friends and what they say.
34:49Because guess what?
34:50I'm gonna tell you this, Cody.
34:55No, I'm gonna tell you this.
34:56Don't, because it'll just ruin.
34:57No.
34:58I'm just here to apologize, Mary.
34:59Not to argue with you.
35:00No, I'm gonna tell you this, Cody.
35:01I'm gonna tell you.
35:02You're not gonna shut me down anymore.
35:03Okay, so I'm gonna finish what I'm saying.
35:06And when I'm not treated well, the people closest to me will defend me.
35:12And that's what my friends do.
35:15Cody, I would love to have a conversation instead of just sit here and listen to you apologize.
35:21You and I can't talk because we will trigger each other.
35:24Frankly, I kind of lost myself.
35:27Guess what?
35:29I get that.
35:30Back in Vegas, all that time, that was very dark for me.
35:35I apologize that your dark time, I wasn't there.
35:41The dark time was because you weren't there.
35:45You don't need this from me, but I tell you I forgive you for that.
35:50This, I want you to feel like this is about you, but it's really about me and God.
35:57I can tell it's about you.
35:58I don't want it to burden you.
36:00Oh, it's not.
36:01No, no.
36:02It's not.
36:03Don't worry.
36:04I sincerely just don't want any of it troubling you.
36:10What's your reaction?
36:11I mean, I kind of chuckled a few times watching it, but I'm like, damn, girl.
36:16Kind of a little bit of a change.
36:19Were you surprised that you demanded what you demanded from him?
36:25No, because I'm done being walked all over by him emotionally.
36:36Mm-hmm.
36:37I'm not going to do that anymore.
36:38Mm-hmm.
36:39And I don't think that he knows what to do with that.
36:43Were you surprised that he even wanted to apologize to you?
36:46Yeah, I think I kind of was.
36:48Yeah.
36:49He has been so set in his ways and his stance and his opinion in what he says and how he treats
36:58me for so long that I just, it shocked me.
37:04It surprised me.
37:05And I still wonder how sincere it really was.
37:10Do you think he was being sincere in his apology to her?
37:13I do.
37:14I mean, at least my experience was it felt very sincere.
37:19But there were times it felt like he was losing his patience with her.
37:23Because they were going back to that dynamic where they were just like irritating each other,
37:28I think.
37:30Like she can be very sharp with her words and she was very sharp.
37:34And I'm not saying she wasn't justified.
37:36She definitely had justification to say all those things.
37:40So what do you think about that conversation?
37:42Sounds like marrying Cody.
37:44What does that mean?
37:45It was just what their relationship was always like.
37:47You know, those old-fashioned firecrackers.
37:50They just kind of always set each other off.
37:53They just, I don't know.
37:56What are your thoughts on that?
37:57Oh, my God.
37:59Yeah, no.
38:00That conversation was just for himself.
38:02I, all of that.
38:03Mary was great.
38:04That was awesome.
38:06That was great.
38:07I love it.
38:08She just put him in his place and she's like, this isn't for me.
38:11This is all for you.
38:12And it's like it's between him and God.
38:14And the more he talked, the more I'm like, you need to stop.
38:17You need to stop.
38:18The more you're talking, the no, no, no, no.
38:21Once he started talking about her friends, the conversation really was over.
38:24Would you ever talk to Cody like the way Mary did?
38:31Coming up.
38:32How was this experience for you?
38:34She's very angry.
38:35I'm going to, like, this apology may not be easy in any way.
38:39No.
38:40Just because she still wants to talk about her hurt and what I did wrong.
38:54Would you ever talk to Cody like the way Mary did?
38:57Uh, no, probably not.
39:02No.
39:03Why?
39:04Because I don't, I just don't take him seriously enough.
39:08And I'm like, look, I know you're here for yourself.
39:10I know you need to apologize for yourself.
39:12But me telling him that isn't going to make a difference.
39:14He's just going to patronize me.
39:16He's not going to, then there's no sincerity in the conversation whatsoever.
39:19He would just patronize me.
39:20What, what there triggered you when he started talking about Jenny?
39:25You don't get to talk about my people like that.
39:29You don't get to talk about my people that way.
39:31Mm-hmm.
39:32Don't push me back into a corner because I will fight.
39:35Do you think Cody understands why this is such a sore subject for you?
39:39Oh, mm, I don't think he gets it.
39:43And I don't think that he thinks I have the right to feel like that.
39:46For whatever reason, I don't know why.
39:49Because she's just a friend.
39:52Like, he would do the same thing and does do the same thing for Robin, right?
39:58Like, she is his person.
40:01That's what you do for your people.
40:04You know what I mean?
40:05But does he have a right to say anything about her friends?
40:08Well, I think if they have an opinion that they're giving about him,
40:11he might have a right to say something.
40:13Yeah.
40:14Cody's not married to Mary anymore.
40:16If he was married to Mary and treated her with respect,
40:20then he gets to have an opinion about her friends, maybe.
40:23But he's not married to her.
40:25He didn't treat her with respect.
40:26He didn't treat her with kindness, love, nothing.
40:28So he doesn't have a right to voice his opinion about Mary's friends to her.
40:33He can tell Robin about his feelings about Mary's friends because he has respect for her.
40:38But no, he can't.
40:39He can't.
40:40He can't lay claim on that part of her life.
40:42No.
40:43He can't lay claim on any part of Mary's life.
40:45No.
40:46How was this experience for you?
40:49She's very angry.
40:51Like, this apology may not be easy in any way.
40:55No.
40:56Just because she still wants to talk about her hurt and what I did wrong.
41:03I mean, I'd rather have a real sincere honesty, like real sincere pushback and get through the process rather than have her go back to her friends and go,
41:17yeah, he was just an asshole.
41:19You know, he was faking his apology or something like that.
41:22Well, she used the word insincere.
41:23Yeah, yeah.
41:24She said she was feeling insincere, that she didn't even know what this was about.
41:27Well, it was because of that.
41:28You know.
41:29She might have felt the insincerity because it was so awkward.
41:32Why was it so awkward?
41:34Well, we just spent the last six months only communicating through lawyers.
41:38But the last time we were sitting here, you called her your favorite ex-wife.
41:43You moved her out, you know, things looked great, and now...
41:46Well, I moved her and she's like, we're going to be nice to each other now, right?
41:50I'm like, yeah.
41:51And what happened?
41:53Well, one of us thought the other drew first blood and went for the jugular.
42:00I mean, we were under the illusion of betrayal.
42:06Yeah.
42:07What I should have been in this place, when I felt like she had done something that offended me,
42:11I should have just let it go.
42:13And I need to apologize.
42:14What did you do to offend you?
42:15And I need to apologize.
42:16What did you do to offend you?
42:20Next time on Sister Wives One on One.
42:24There's times where conversations have been had or he'll text or he'll call or something happens.
42:30And so the true Cody then shines through.
42:33And there's times where he said and done things that were really not okay.
42:37Did Jen influence have some sort of influence over Mary's actions to leave the family?
42:46Possibly.
42:47Yes.
42:48She said to me one time, well, I told Mary that she should, you know, just take all the money and leave.
42:53And I, at that point, I sort of ended that professional relationship with her because I felt uncomfortable.
42:58She's very sarcastic.
42:59She probably did say it, but I would say in a sarcastic way if she did.
43:03To me, it feels like that this is a story that has just recently been fabricated for whatever reason.
43:10Do you understand why maybe Mary could have a right to distrust you?
43:16No.
43:18No.
43:19I absolutely do not.
43:20But this is why they feel that they can't be friends or trust Robin.
43:25If your wife's having an affair and your other wife tells you, that's my business, no matter what.
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