- 13 minutes ago
The big talking point of this episode of News Today is Nikhil Gupta who pleaded to charges of murder-for-hire, conspiracy to commit murder-for-hire, and conspiracy to commit money laundering, in connection with his efforts to murder Khalistani separatist Gurpatwant Singh Pannun in New York.
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00:01Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your primetime destination news,
00:06newsmakers, talking points, Monday night and we have a big story at the top of the news.
00:11The Pannoon plot. Why did Nikhil Gupta, the Indian so-called businessman, plead guilty?
00:18Was this a Dhurandar-like plot that went wrong or a rogue undertaking, the real-life Dhurandar?
00:26A risk that was worth taking or not?
00:30Indo-Park cricket, an unequal rivalry? Is it the end of that hype around it?
00:36We'll tell you more on that too. But first, as always, it's time for the nine headlines at nine tonight.
00:44India-U.S. trade deal likely to be signed next month.
00:48India's chief negotiator to visit the United States next week, where he will work towards finalizing the legal agreement.
00:59Prime Minister Modi unwares the AI summit in Delhi.
01:02World leaders, top tech giants to attend the summit in the next four days.
01:06French President Macron amongst the world leaders who will be there.
01:13Almost a month after a techie's death, another life lost due to apathy in Noida.
01:19Three-year-old boy drowns in a pit during a temple feast.
01:22Villagers accuse Greater Noida Authority of negligence.
01:27Congress' problems mount ahead of Assembly election.
01:31Veteran Neta Manishankaraya targets leadership in Kerala.
01:34DMK seeks action against TN Congress MP Manikam Tagore.
01:38Senior Assam leader keeps the party hanging after submitting resignation.
01:47Supreme Court dismisses a plea against Assam chief minister over a controversial video that showed him shooting at Bangladeshi Muslims.
01:58Says court being turned into a political arena directs petitioners to approach the high court.
02:06CBSC clarifies on two exam policies.
02:09Says class 10 students must appear in the first board examination.
02:12Students who miss at least three subjects will be placed in the essential repeat category.
02:20Enforcement directorate slaps Rs. 184 crore FEMA penalty on NewsClick.
02:24Its founder, Prabir Purkayas, action related to a probe into suspected violations linked to foreign funds received by the portal.
02:33The portal says it's a witch hunt.
02:37Israel Prime Minister Netanyahu announces Prime Minister Modi's visit to Israel next week.
02:42But no official announcement from MEA yet.
02:44Probable dates could be February 24th and 25th.
02:50Former Pakistan players slammed their cricketers after the defeat vs. India.
02:55Shahid Afridi suggests to drop Babar Azam, Shahid Shah Afridi and Shadab Khan pave the way for juniors.
03:13The big story that we are breaking right at the very top.
03:15The India-U.S. trade deal is now likely to be signed next month.
03:21India's chief trade negotiator set to visit Washington next week.
03:25Legal agreement for the trade deal to be finalized soon.
03:28India-U.S. trade deal's broad framework has already been finalized and made public.
03:33India-U.S. expected now to ensure that the deal is in place by the middle of March.
03:41That's what we are being told.
03:43Karishma Asudhani from Business Today joins us with more.
03:46Karishma, is there a timeline?
03:48We've kept hearing about the likelihood of deals being finalized.
03:53Is March now going to be the month where we expect a final agreement?
04:00Rajdeep, the word that is coming in from Commerce Ministry is the term efforts and intent.
04:06That is what trade ministry officials have told us that this is not about deadlines which they've been reiterating for
04:15long.
04:15But the idea and focus is to keep March 2026 as their focus, as their effort in order to at
04:25least close and sign the first tranche of the deal.
04:28Now, well, this month did bring in a lot of happy news with the joint statement coming in.
04:34And finally, consensus being seen between both the countries after a really long deadlock.
04:40And now what is really left is the legal scrutiny of this joint statement, which will be done by Indian
04:47officials, chief negotiator from India,
04:50Darpanjain, who will be visiting Washington likely early next week in order to work on this and ensure that things
04:58are in place.
05:00Let's not forget, we are still on the 25% tariff percentage and we are hoping that this week we
05:08should come to 18.
05:10Okay, Karishpa Asudhani joining us with that news point.
05:13Thanks very much for informing us.
05:16Okay, let's move on there.
05:18The fact is, while there is progress on Indo-U.S. trade talks, there is still a shadow over Indo
05:24-U.S. ties.
05:25The latest, after an Indian national, Nikhil Gupta, pleaded guilty in the U.S. court to charges for plotting the
05:32assassination of a Sikh separatist leader who lives in New York.
05:37The U.S. Department of Justice now claims that Nikhil Gupta was hired by an Indian government official named Vikash
05:44Yadav.
05:45The government of India has so far kept a cryptic silence over it.
05:50But there is a larger question.
05:51Did the government of India sanction a hit on a Khalistani separatist living in America who is an American citizen?
06:00Or was this a rogue operation?
06:03What's the truth?
06:05That's what we are going to try and find out tonight.
06:07Is this Dhurandar operation gone wrong?
06:11Or is it a rogue operation?
06:14Take a look at our top story.
06:19Three days after the U.S. Department of Justice revealed that the Indian booked for the conspiracy to kill a
06:26Sikh separatist has pleaded guilty, the government of India is maintaining silence.
06:33The Department of Justice in a statement said, Nikhil Gupta pleaded guilty to all three counts, murder for hire, conspiracy
06:42to commit murder for hire, and conspiracy to commit money laundering.
06:48The charges attract a maximum of 40 years in prison, but the judge will determine the term, which means the
06:56actual sentence could be much lower.
07:00U.S. District Judge Victor Marrero is set to give the sentencing in May this year.
07:06Gupta was accused of hiring a hitman to assassinate Sikh separatist Gurpatwan Singh Panun, who lives in New York.
07:17According to the DOJ, in or about 2023, Gupta worked together with others in India and elsewhere, including Vikas Yadav,
07:27who was an Indian government employee.
07:30The indictment says Yadav was employed by the government of India's cabinet secretariat, which houses the research and analysis wing.
07:37In or about May 2023, Yadav recruited Gupta to carry out the assassination in the U.S.
07:45At Yadav's direction, Gupta contacted a criminal associate, who was in fact a confidential source working with the DEA.
07:55The source introduced Gupta to a purported hitman, who was in fact a DEA undercover officer.
08:02Yadav allegedly agreed to pay $100,000 to murder Panun.
08:07On or about June 9, 2023, Yadav and Gupta allegedly arranged for an associate to deliver $15,000 in cash
08:18to the undercover officer as advance payment.
08:22In or about June 2023, Yadav provided Gupta with information about the target, which Gupta passed on to the undercover
08:31officer.
08:31According to the Department of Justice, Gupta specifically instructed the undercover officer not to commit the murder around the time
08:40of the Indian Prime Minister's official visit to the U.S.,
08:43which was scheduled to begin on June 20, 2023.
08:48On or about June 18, 2023, masked gunmen murdered another Sikh separatist, Hardeep Singh Nidjar, outside a Gurdwara in British
08:59Columbia, Canada.
09:01The Department of Justice claims that on June 19, 2023, Gupta told the undercover officer that Nidjar was also the
09:10target.
09:10And we have so many targets.
09:13Gupta added that there was now no need to wait on killing Panun.
09:18On June 30, 2023, Gupta was arrested in the Czech Republic.
09:22He was later extradited to the United States.
09:28After Gupta pleaded guilty, U.S. Attorney Jay Clayton said,
09:33Our message to all nefarious foreign actors should be clear.
09:37Steer clear of the United States and our people.
09:42It is, however, not clear why Nikhil Gupta pleaded guilty instead of fighting the charges.
09:49Bureau Report, India Today.
09:55Lots of questions that we will raise one by one.
09:58But my first guest tonight is A.S. Dullat, former special director of RAW, someone who headed RAW for years.
10:08Also, the former RAW chief, as I said.
10:11Joining me now is Mr. Dullat.
10:13Appreciate your joining us, sir.
10:15How do you see this Nikhil Gupta case playing out?
10:18The U.S. Department of Justice press release clearly says,
10:22Nikhil Gupta worked at the BS of an Indian government employee to arrange the murder of a Sikh separatist leader.
10:30Do you see this as an embarrassment for the government and the RNAW?
10:38No, I don't know exactly what is happening.
10:41But, I mean, if this fellow has confessed and turned an approver, then it could mean anything, you know.
10:51He may have been a plant all along.
10:53Are you saying, as the Indian government sources are now claiming this was a rogue operation,
10:59can we just go with that?
11:00Or do you believe, given the voluminous documents now available with the U.S. authorities,
11:05this was a covert operation launched by possibly RAW that went horribly wrong?
11:15Well, if it's gone wrong, then, yeah, it has gone horribly wrong.
11:20But I would go along with the government version here that I feel and I felt earlier also that this
11:28fellow could have been a plant, you know.
11:29So, the ease in which he is confessing and has become an approver means that he could have been a
11:38plant all along and fooled us.
11:41But whose plant could he have been?
11:43Why would Nikhil Gupta be a plant of anyone other than the government?
11:49Obviously, an American plant.
11:52Sir, you're saying that, you know, he could be a U.S. plant.
11:56But at the end of the day, I want to repeat what the Department of Justice United States statement is
12:02saying based on the FBI investigation.
12:05The fact is, an individual has pleaded guilty to plotting the assassination of a U.S. citizen, Gurpatwan Singh Pannoon,
12:13a Khalistani separatist.
12:15Could such an operation, Prima FAC, have taken place without someone in the Indian government authorizing it?
12:22Could an individual like Nikhil Gupta simply hire someone and do it on his own?
12:30Yeah, but there's another question here which arises.
12:34How did, in the first instance, how did, there was no assassination attempt or anything.
12:41How, in the first instance, did the Americans know that there was a threat to Gurpat, Patwan Singh or whatever
12:49his name is?
12:50How did they know?
12:51It could have been the same fellow, Nikhil Gupta, who was telling them what they wanted to know.
12:58Sir, the fact is, sir, the report suggests, some reports suggest that there is a new muscular Indian strategy in
13:05such operation.
13:06That we will take out people who are involved in activities against India, whether they are based in U.S.
13:13or Canada.
13:14If we see them, identify them as separatist or terrorist group, do you believe that these kind of attempts, extraterritorial,
13:21can be justified?
13:23Or are we on a slippery slope if that is going to be the approach of the government of India?
13:32No, no, I would never justify that.
13:35And I don't believe we have done these things, you know.
13:39I've all along said this, I don't believe, we've never done it.
13:43I've been in the business myself, and we've never done these things.
13:46And I don't believe we are doing this now also.
13:50And if this was some kind of an operation, then it was a terrible operation.
13:56That's all I can say.
13:58But, sir, across the world, Israel's Mossad, U.S.A.'s CIA are known to conduct such covert operations.
14:05Only in most cases, they don't get caught.
14:07But are you saying that there is a red line that India must draw,
14:11that these are not operations that Indian government should get involved or sanction at any level?
14:15Am I correct?
14:19Absolutely, absolutely.
14:20We have never got involved, and I don't think we are involved.
14:25Sir, you are categorically saying time and again that we are not involved.
14:29But I will ask you again, why should America cook up such a case?
14:32We have a strong relationship with the Americans.
14:35Why would they cook up such a case that only ends up embarrassing the Indian government?
14:39That has seen an Indian national now facing a potentially very long period behind bars.
14:44Even if you do an operation, you don't get caught.
14:47That's the rule of the spy world.
14:52But he has done it himself, hasn't he?
14:55He has confessed himself.
14:57He says that he was involved.
14:59That's why I suspect he could have been a plant all along, you know.
15:04He could have been a U.S. agent all along or a CIA agent all along.
15:09Whereas we thought that he was working for us if he was in touch with somebody.
15:16But if he was so innocent, Mr. Dullaj, should he not have fought the charges instead of pleading guilty in
15:21the U.S. court?
15:22When he pleads guilty, obviously, to offset some of the punishment he will get.
15:28The fact is, I repeat, all of this is based on documentation, investigation that the U.S. authorities have carried
15:35out.
15:35How can we dismiss it casually?
15:40Well, you're saying the same thing in a different way from what I'm saying.
15:46That where, how, and why has he confessed so easily?
15:50You know, and why at this point of time?
15:53I mean, this story is not...
15:56It happened just today or yesterday.
15:59It's three years old or whatever.
16:02So, how did it take so long?
16:04And what is...
16:06Why the timing at this point of time, you know?
16:09And you...
16:10Yeah.
16:12But, sir, he has also named an individual called Vikas Yadav.
16:17They say that he was an Indian government employee allegedly working in the cabinet secretariat.
16:22He's the one who hired Nikhil Gupta, who then hired a killer to bump off Pannu.
16:26There is an Indian angle which leads right up to the doorstep of the government, sir.
16:34I don't know whether it leads to the doorstep of our government, but who is this fellow Yadav?
16:41Has he been identified?
16:43Do we know who he is?
16:46Except that there used to be mention of somebody called CC1.
16:51Sir, Yadav is specifically mentioned in the U.S. documentation.
16:56The fact that the Indian government says he's no longer in service.
17:01The fact is, it could either be a rogue operation conducted without any authorization at any level is what you
17:07seem to suggest.
17:08But is that really possible?
17:09Can rogue operations of this nature take place without someone in the Indian government at the higher levels knowing about
17:16this?
17:19No, I don't believe that.
17:20But I don't say, at the same time, as I say, we've never been involved in these kind of operations,
17:27you know.
17:28Trying to bump off somebody in a third country and that also in the United States.
17:32Why would we do it?
17:34As you say, we have a good relationship with the Americans.
17:37Why would we do it?
17:38And Pannu, in any case, was not bumped off.
17:43There was no attack on him.
17:45So how did anybody come to know that he was under threat?
17:49Sir, but let me substantiate what I just said.
17:52The fact is, two years ago, Canada raised a red flag about another Khalistani leader, Niger, who was killed in
17:592023.
18:00They pointed fingers at India and destroyed Indo-Canadian relationships.
18:04They alleged Indian government had hired the Lawrence Vishnoyi gang to carry out this killing.
18:09So there seems to be a pattern.
18:15Yeah, I remember that Niger case and it was unfortunate, however it happened or whatever.
18:22But I had said at that point also that we don't do these things.
18:26We don't get involved in these things, you know.
18:29Sir, you say we don't, you're saying we don't do these things.
18:32Now that could have been when you were in charge at RAW, things may have changed.
18:35There are those who believe that within the present Modi government,
18:38there are those who feel there is a need for a more muscular policy in dealing with terrorists and separatists,
18:43even if it means possibly these hired assassinations.
18:49So if things have changed so dramatically, then you have to ask people who are in the business now, you
18:56know.
18:57But I still don't believe that our organization could be involved in this kind of nonsense.
19:04It makes no sense.
19:06It achieves nothing.
19:08Tell me, by bumping off Niger or Pannu, what do we gain?
19:12There has to be a gain somewhere, no?
19:14You know, we had so many opportunities to, for instance, to give you an example,
19:20to bump off Gilani in Kashmir, who was much more of a nuisance.
19:25But we didn't do it.
19:27We didn't touch a Kashmiri.
19:29No Kashmiri was targeted or killed by us.
19:32Whereas Pakistan kept killing Kashmiris.
19:36Whoever fell out with them was bumped off.
19:41Did you, let me ask you honestly, did you ever plan to do a similar operation on Dawud Ibrahim,
19:46one of India's most wanted, based in Pakistan and Dubai?
19:49Honest answer, was that ever planned?
19:56No, no, no, no, no way, no.
19:58How would you do it?
20:00And, okay, now you've got it.
20:02Now you talk about a muscular policy.
20:04Then why have we not got the Dawud?
20:06Tell me.
20:07Or why have we not attempted getting a Dawud?
20:11Is it that we have more capability in America and Canada than in Pakistan?
20:17It makes no sense at all.
20:19Sir, I'm asking you that, have we chosen to do...
20:23You know, if Israel was confronted with a Dawud-like problem,
20:27they would have probably gone ahead and at least attempted to take him out.
20:29Are you saying that in India, a red line is clearly drawn by the political executive?
20:38Of course, there is a red line.
20:40And, of course, these are political decisions, ultimately.
20:44You know, you or I or nobody else can do it on their own.
20:48If the top brass doesn't want it, it won't be done.
20:51And if they want it, then why has Dawud not been targeted on this line?
20:57What you're suggesting, then, is that we have greater capability in the United States and in Canada
21:03than in Pakistan?
21:05And that is, again, difficult to believe.
21:08So, may I just ask you in conclusion, why...
21:11You would say we don't need real-life Dhurandars.
21:14Am I correct?
21:15That real-life Dhurandars only exist on cinema, not in real life,
21:19where you go into Pakistan, for example, and take out someone?
21:26You're right.
21:27You're right.
21:27This is cinema.
21:30Okay.
21:31On that note, I appreciate you joining us, Mr. Dullat,
21:34because you've set the stage for my big talking point.
21:37Why did Nikhil Gupta then plead guilty in a U.S. court?
21:40Is this a secret operation that went wrong and India cannot in any way acknowledge it?
21:45Was this a mission run by a rogue officer?
21:49Is this a real-life Dhurandar case, a risk?
21:52Or is it worth it?
21:53Can the government of India distance itself from such a plot
21:56when the U.S. claims they have confirmed evidence of it?
22:00Joining me now, Dr. Tara Kartha is former Director, National Security Council and Secretariat.
22:05Casey Singh, former Indian diplomat.
22:07And Glenn Carl is former Officer and CIS Directorate of Operations, author, The Interrogator.
22:12I appreciate all of you joining us.
22:14Tara Kartha, your first reactions to the Nikhil Gupta case
22:17and the fact that he's made this confession and the U.S. statement
22:20which says that he did it on the bidding of an Indian government official.
22:27My first reaction was that right at the beginning was that this was another David Hedley.
22:33He's a DA agent.
22:35You've got tons of these DA guys, you know,
22:37their moles roaming around doing their secret operations for them.
22:41And this is documented in the U.S. National Security Archives
22:45where DEA agents were involved in, you know, you know those cases,
22:50in the Contra scandal in Afghanistan.
22:52That was my immediate reaction.
22:54But I want to say something here.
22:56This character, Gurpath Singh Panun,
22:59he was fully operative when we knew about this guy, right?
23:04He was a joke.
23:06If anybody had told me, listen, we need to assassinate this guy,
23:10I would have fallen off my chair laughing.
23:12He was simply not worth it.
23:15That is my view as...
23:17There are hundreds of others and I'm not going to name them.
23:20So then why...
23:21So are you saying this entire story has been cooked up by the U.S. at the highest level?
23:26No, no, no, no, no.
23:26I'm not saying that at all.
23:29If you trace it, which I have done,
23:31date by date, date by date,
23:33there was the killing of Niger.
23:34I mean, look at that document which you're quoting.
23:36This guy tells them, tells this undercover agent,
23:41that, you know, don't kill Niger just now because Prime Minister is coming.
23:46Two days before PM visits, Niger is killed.
23:49Then he tells him, now you go ahead.
23:52I mean, how ridiculous is that?
23:56Niger is fine.
23:57As of, in fact, three days ago,
24:00one couple from Canada has fled Canada
24:03because of extortion threats
24:05by the Vishnu and one more Bimbia gang.
24:08There are two, three gangs.
24:10Not two, three.
24:10There's lots more.
24:12That's just three days ago.
24:13So that gang warfare has been going on for decades.
24:18That is intertwined with narcotics.
24:21Okay, so that whole thing is operating there.
24:24And that, for some reason,
24:26now this is what I want to know.
24:28Who actually killed him two days
24:31before the Prime Minister was to arrive in the US,
24:33somebody bumps off Niger.
24:37Okay, so I want to know more about that.
24:40And then this guy says,
24:41okay, let's go bump off Panu now.
24:43Panu is not worth killing.
24:46Let me take what you're saying to Glenn Carl.
24:50He's a former officer in CIS Directorate.
24:52As you are seeing there's skepticism in India
24:54over this US Department of Justice investigation.
24:58There are reports suggesting that this was an operation
25:01carried out by Nikhil Gupta,
25:02hired an assassin at the behest of a government officer,
25:08Mr. Yadav.
25:09Could this be, could he have been a plant,
25:12as is being suggested?
25:15No, it's extremely unlikely that that be the case.
25:18The evidence is multiple, from multiple sources.
25:23The Department of Justice doesn't take any instructions
25:26from the CIA or the DEA or the NSA,
25:31which seems to have intercepted some communications.
25:38And the critical question is the motive.
25:40What motive would there be for the United States
25:43or part of the United States to do this?
25:46None of that adds up at all.
25:48The pattern of events and responses
25:52by the various governments and players is classic, however.
25:56If a government gets caught in an intelligence operation
25:59that has gone wrong,
26:02then, of course, it will say,
26:03oh my goodness, Glenn Carl, he wasn't following orders.
26:07He seems to have lost his head.
26:08He was a rogue.
26:09He had his own partisan personal objectives
26:12he was trying to pursue under the umbrella
26:14of the United States,
26:15when in fact, no, no, no,
26:16we would never have anything to do with this.
26:17Oh, so sorry.
26:18And that's exactly what the Indian government has said,
26:21which is the standard thing that one does
26:23when one gets caught in an intelligence operation.
26:28You change the subject, deny,
26:30and then remain silent.
26:32That's what happened.
26:34And the United States, in this instance,
26:36has simply done some police and intelligence work,
26:40the two overlapping in this case.
26:42And if the man were,
26:45why would he have pled guilty?
26:47I do not know the twists and turns
26:50of the trial and the process,
26:52but most likely,
26:54he was offered or presented
26:56with alternative futures,
27:00which is if you plead guilty,
27:01your sentence will be probably much shorter.
27:04You might be pardoned
27:05or released for good behavior.
27:08And if not,
27:09you'll be stuck in prison
27:10for much, much longer.
27:12Let me bring in KC Singh.
27:14KC Singh,
27:15either way,
27:16this is an embarrassment.
27:17Now, you could argue
27:18this was an intelligence operation
27:19that went wrong,
27:20so the government has no option
27:21but to say
27:22that Nikhil Gupta is a rogue,
27:24you distance yourself from him.
27:26Or,
27:28the fact is
27:29that this is now
27:30part of our policy
27:31that we are looking,
27:32whether it's the Nijjar case
27:34or the Panun case,
27:35we are possibly
27:36entering a very,
27:38very dangerous terrain
27:39which,
27:39when it goes wrong,
27:40it becomes embarrassing.
27:45Well,
27:45let's look at it.
27:46It first began with Canada.
27:48Our relationship
27:49went completely downhill.
27:52Of course,
27:52Prime Minister Trudeau
27:53was at fault
27:54because he jumped the gun.
27:55and levelled
27:57an allocation
27:59when he didn't have
27:59documentation
28:00at that stage.
28:02In retrospect,
28:03it appears
28:03the Americans
28:04had passed on
28:05the information.
28:05I think they were monitoring
28:07what Gupta was doing
28:09and as yet,
28:10because they had not
28:11grabbed him,
28:12they were not willing
28:13to give all the information.
28:14They're keeping Canadians
28:15from sharing any details.
28:17So,
28:17the Indian thing was
28:18the Canadians
28:18are levelling charges
28:19without any information.
28:22Now,
28:22since then,
28:23a relationship with Canada.
28:25Now,
28:25why would two governments,
28:26one after the other,
28:28come after India
28:30on this particular subject?
28:32I'm not saying
28:33the government of India
28:33is involved,
28:34but certainly,
28:35it requires
28:36some examination,
28:38some investigation
28:40at an end.
28:41There were some
28:42reports in the media
28:43that one officer
28:44has retired
28:47and he's no longer
28:48with a particular agency.
28:50Whatever it is,
28:51is if somebody
28:52went rogue,
28:53because after all,
28:54the Americans
28:54have phone numbers,
28:56their agents
28:57claim to have
28:57spoken to the Indian
28:59person handling
29:00Gupta,
29:01etc.
29:02Let's share
29:03the information.
29:04They should share
29:04the information,
29:05find out whose phone
29:06was being used,
29:07from wherever
29:08these calls made.
29:09We've heard nothing
29:10from the Indian side.
29:12Why are the Americans
29:13going seemingly
29:14out of their way
29:15to make this a case
29:17wherein they want
29:18to directly
29:18implicate India?
29:21Look,
29:22as you just now heard,
29:23it's the Department
29:24of Justice
29:24and Americans
29:25would like a lever
29:26to keep you pressed
29:27and if there is
29:28a confession
29:29by Gupta,
29:30they may have
29:31more information
29:32and that information
29:34can be used
29:35slyly in your
29:36bilateral relations.
29:37That is a problem
29:38in a case like this.
29:40If it goes
29:42higher up the chain,
29:44then it becomes
29:44a pressure point.
29:45That's why it's
29:46important for India
29:47to conduct
29:48an investigation
29:49and make the
29:52outcome public
29:53and say,
29:54this is the person,
29:55these were the phone calls
29:56and this is the person
29:57who's involved
29:58and you'll have to try him.
29:59Otherwise,
29:59tomorrow the Americans
30:00may ask for his extradition.
30:03That complicates
30:04things further.
30:05But if you're
30:06trying a person,
30:07you can say,
30:07we are trying him
30:07for a crime here.
30:08So there's no question
30:09of extraditing him.
30:10We haven't done that.
30:11We don't even know
30:12if there's such a person.
30:13So if the Americans
30:14are lying
30:15and the agencies
30:16have no information,
30:17then we should say so.
30:19But if they are saying
30:20that a particular phone
30:21person was making
30:22phone calls,
30:23it was after all
30:24going from some number.
30:26After all,
30:26$15,000
30:27have been passed,
30:29etc.
30:29So who made
30:30that money available?
30:32Gupta would be
30:33answering that.
30:34Can I just bring in?
30:36Yeah.
30:37I've heard you.
30:38Can I just bring in
30:38Tara Kanta at this point?
30:40Tara Kanta,
30:40you see the details
30:41of this case
30:42is what should worry
30:43India, surely.
30:43I mean,
30:45as is being said,
30:47you can never acknowledge
30:47a secret operation
30:48that's gone wrong
30:49given the stakes involved.
30:51But it almost seems
30:52as if India has decided
30:53that, you know,
30:54we don't want to touch
30:55Nikhil Gupta
30:55even as Nikhil Gupta
30:57seems to be
30:59perhaps only exposing
31:00more and more details.
31:03No, I think I was
31:04slightly misunderstood.
31:06I didn't say that
31:07the US was trying
31:08to get us into a hole.
31:09I mean, maybe they are,
31:10but that's not
31:11what I said.
31:12But I'm just saying
31:13that, see,
31:14we cooperated with them
31:16on this so-called
31:17this Yadav case.
31:19There was,
31:19unlike Canada,
31:21which didn't present us
31:22with any evidence
31:23and just kept
31:24ranting in public,
31:25the US did quietly
31:26give us some details
31:28and there was a lot
31:29of cooperation going on.
31:31That guy, I think,
31:32was subsequently arrested
31:33for an extortion case
31:34again involving the...
31:37Yeah, so that he could
31:37not be extradited.
31:38You see, that's the question.
31:39The US wants him extradited.
31:41We are not...
31:41We put out another case
31:43so that we can avoid extradition.
31:44See, the thing is,
31:46okay, that is...
31:47Yeah, maybe that's true.
31:48But an assistant commandant
31:51in a CRPF
31:52attached to Raw,
31:54who was at the time
31:56involved in a case
31:57for his promotion
31:58in CAAT,
31:59he carries out
32:00an assassination.
32:01I mean, it is so
32:03unbelievable
32:04that it's like a...
32:06I mean,
32:08what shall I say?
32:09I can't think
32:10how it possibly
32:11could happen.
32:12That's why I'm saying
32:13there is something
32:14we are missing out.
32:16What is that?
32:17Okay, you're saying
32:17there's something
32:18that's missing.
32:19Let me take that
32:20to my guest
32:21from the United States,
32:22Glenn Carl.
32:24Glenn,
32:25does this happen often?
32:26Could this...
32:27You know,
32:28what is it
32:28that we are missing
32:29in all of this?
32:31It seems rather bad
32:32that an assistant
32:32commandant of CRPF
32:33is hiring someone
32:34who's supposedly
32:35a businessman.
32:36He pays off
32:39someone in the United States
32:40to carry on
32:41this operation
32:41of Pannoon,
32:42who's not necessarily
32:44someone who's
32:45India's most wanted.
32:46Why would...
32:47Why do you think
32:47this would happen?
32:48What are we missing?
32:51Well,
32:52that's a good question.
32:53First,
32:54I think Ambassador Singh
32:55raised a point
32:56that I think is
32:56worth expanding on
32:58a little bit
32:58that bears on
32:59your question
33:00just this second,
33:01which is that
33:03there's a good
33:04possibility
33:05that the...
33:07Mr. Gupta
33:08is serving
33:09as a circuit breaker
33:10at this point
33:11by pleading guilty
33:12that in the
33:15negotiations
33:15or discussions
33:16between the prosecutors
33:17and Gupta
33:18and his defense attorneys
33:19and then indirectly
33:20with the Indian government,
33:22of course,
33:23it could well
33:24have been said
33:25that,
33:25well,
33:26listen,
33:26we have,
33:27as quite clearly
33:28seems to be the case,
33:30the intercepts
33:30of telephone calls
33:31and telephone numbers
33:32and names of people
33:34and we can fit them
33:35into the structures
33:36of the R.A.W.'s
33:37operations
33:38or the governments
33:39and so on
33:40and we don't really
33:41want to have
33:42all of this
33:43blow up
33:43and get worse
33:44and worse
33:44and worse
33:45and so
33:46it would be a wise thing
33:47for Mr. Gupta
33:49to plead guilty
33:50and put an end to this
33:52and that fits
33:53with the standard pattern
33:54of the Indian government's
33:55response,
33:56which is,
33:56oh my goodness,
33:57you know,
33:57this is a rogue
33:57and let's turn our eyes
33:58to something else
33:59because it just
34:00couldn't possibly happen.
34:01End of story.
34:02That's the first part.
34:03The second part,
34:04what is we missing?
34:05And that's another
34:06good question.
34:09Assassinations
34:10are really sexy
34:11in the movies
34:12and so on,
34:13but they
34:15have so many
34:16fraught possibilities
34:18and unintended consequences
34:20that usually
34:22come to pass
34:23in some way
34:23beyond the control
34:24of the perpetrating
34:25government
34:26that they
34:27are really
34:28unwise things
34:29to do
34:30and it's taken,
34:31no one will believe
34:32what I say now,
34:33but it's taken
34:34as an article
34:34of faith
34:35that the CIA
34:35runs around the world
34:37assassinating people,
34:38but that is not true.
34:39It is true
34:40in 1942
34:41that the U.S.
34:43provided a weapon
34:43that assassinated
34:44a French official
34:46during World War II
34:47and that we tried
34:48to assassinate
34:49Castro,
34:51miserably,
34:51failing.
34:53The targeted killings
34:54are clearly
34:55lethal operations
34:56but are not the same
34:57as hiring a hitman
34:59to kill someone
35:00and there is
35:01a clear assessment
35:02made that the costs
35:04so dramatically
35:05outweigh the benefits
35:07that it becomes
35:10just what you say,
35:11a question of
35:12why in the world
35:13would someone do this?
35:15Now it does seem,
35:15however,
35:16and this I don't know
35:17for a fact,
35:18but it does seem
35:18that the RAW
35:20or the Indian government
35:20in recent years,
35:22very recently,
35:23in the last several years,
35:24in the last part
35:26of Modi's time
35:27in office,
35:28has become more
35:29aggressive
35:30in this kind of
35:33operation
35:33against dissidents
35:35and separatists
35:36and so on.
35:36So that does seem
35:38to be the case.
35:39Okay,
35:40you know,
35:40that's a thought
35:41you are leaving us with.
35:44I appreciate my guests
35:46joining us.
35:46Clearly,
35:47this is a case
35:48which leaves
35:48plenty of questions
35:50unanswered
35:51and we hope
35:52that we will get
35:55some clarity.
35:56Remember,
35:57this is not a real-life
35:59Dhurandar case
36:00because this is
36:02actually a case
36:03that has possibly
36:04blown up
36:05in the face
36:05of the Indian government.
36:07I appreciate
36:08my guests,
36:08though,
36:09joining me
36:09on my talking point.
36:11I want to turn
36:12from there
36:12to our ground
36:13report today
36:14which is from
36:14Telangana
36:15where a tribal
36:16festival turned
36:17ugly when a Muslim
36:18vendor was
36:19publicly humiliated.
36:21Sheikh Shaiska Wali
36:22selling Khova buns
36:24was confronted
36:25on camera
36:25by a group
36:26of YouTubers
36:27who forced him
36:28to eat his own
36:29products,
36:30claiming that
36:31this was an example
36:32of food jihad.
36:34The incident
36:35has sparked
36:35widespread outrage
36:36online and even
36:38forced the Andhra
36:39government to step in.
36:40Take a look.
36:50At one of India's
36:52largest tribal festivals,
36:53a moment of celebration
36:55turned into controversy.
37:04A Muslim food vendor
37:07was publicly harassed
37:08on camera,
37:09accused of food jihad
37:10in the middle
37:11of Medarma Jataru
37:12in Moolugu, Telangana.
37:21YouTuber harassed
37:22Sheikh Sheikh Shaisa Wali
37:24demanding he show
37:25his Aadhakar.
37:31He forced him
37:32to eat Khova buns
37:33he was selling.
37:34Wali had come
37:35from Kurnool
37:36in Andhra Pradesh
37:37to take part
37:37in festival.
37:40Manshar,
37:41Jihad Khan,
37:44Aadhakar Tan,
37:46a woman
37:47who wanted
37:47to eat
37:47a man
37:47who was
37:48a woman
37:48who looked
37:48and looked
37:50and looked
37:59the
38:00Moolugu
38:08The incident triggered social media outrage.
38:12Andhra Pradesh Deputy Chief Minister Nara Lokesh said he was sorry for Vali's troubles
38:18and promised to meet him.
38:20AIMIM Chief Asad Uddin Oyesi condemned the incident.
38:46What should have been a festival of faith and devotion instead exposed the dark side
38:51of communal profiling, reminding us that even amidst millions of devotees, intolerance
38:57can strike at smallest stall.
39:00Bureau Report, India Today.
39:05Extremely unfortunate and completely unacceptable.
39:09Okay, let's turn to our other talking point tonight.
39:12As Pakistan crumbled in a rather one-sided contest against India, Pakistani fans are erupting
39:18in raw anger.
39:19The TV Todo moment has returned.
39:21Furious fans venting out their frustration on the team.
39:25Memes flooded the internet and social media.
39:27And even former cricketers want massive changes in the Pakistani team.
39:32Is the great rivalry between India and Pakistan now simply a no contest?
39:36We'll look at that but first take a look at this report.
39:39I don't have a slogan, I'm sorry.
39:42I'm very tired.
39:43We are saying that we are going to do this.
39:46We are going to do this.
39:48We are going to do this.
39:48You are going to do this.
39:50You are going to do this.
39:54We are saying that this is the strike rate.
39:56My heart is getting out of this,
39:57that the strike rate is getting out of one person.
40:00You are getting four numbers from open.
40:09Pakistan is in complete meltdown after the crushing loss to India.
40:31On the field, Team India delivered total dominance.
40:37A clinical one-sided masterclass that sealed a 61-run victory.
40:42India's biggest ever win over Pakistan in T20 cricket in terms of runs.
40:49The result powers India into the Super 8s,
40:52as they extend their record against them in T20 World Cups to 8-1.
40:59The defeat also exposed Pakistan's pre-match boycott drama,
41:03ending instead in a night of embarrassment.
41:07With PCB chief Mohsin Nakavi leaving the stadium early,
41:11as Pakistan slipped to 78 for 6 while chasing 176.
41:17There were plans that Mr Mohsin Nakavi had made of
41:20probably inviting the Sri Lankan president over to his,
41:24you know, VIP box and then taking him to the dressing room of the Pakistan team.
41:29So those were the grand plans that Mr Mohsin Nakavi had.
41:32But eventually, he left the stadium even before the final rights were written.
41:42Back home, the Green Army's collapse triggered fury and disbelief.
41:49Former Pakistan skippers led the backlash.
41:52Shahid Afridi and Shoaib Malik questioning strike rates,
41:55team balance and senior players' failure to perform.
41:58If I want to take a decision here,
42:00then I'll leave Shaheen, Babar, and Shadaab.
42:05I'll leave the new girls,
42:07I'll give the new chance,
42:08and I'll give the new players
42:10against them,
42:12I'll give them confidence,
42:14and I'll leave them alone.
42:15If we go back a little,
42:17what do we call Babar Azam?
42:18It's a problem of strike rate.
42:20It's like the strike rate.
42:22It's a problem of strike rate.
42:26It's a problem of strike rate.
42:27It's a problem of strike rate.
42:28It's a problem of strike rate.
42:29It's a problem of strike rate.
42:29It's a problem of strike rate.
42:31As anger and embarrassment deepen,
42:34Pakistan's boycott bluster dies in complete shambles.
42:38With Nikhilna's Sports Bureau, India Today.
42:44Okay, let's get views from both sides of the border.
42:46Shishi Ratangdi, former Mumbai captain, joins me.
42:49And Javed Khureshi, former Pakistani under-19 captain,
42:53is with me.
42:54Thanks both very much.
42:55Javed, let me come to you first.
42:58Good evening.
42:59Lost to India often leads to overreactions.
43:02But it seems that Pakistan now simply can't handle
43:05the pressure of playing against India.
43:07It seems that,
43:08is it a question of not handling pressure
43:10or just not being good enough anymore?
43:13I think it's a bit of both.
43:15We certainly struggle when it comes to handling the pressure,
43:18which is unlike the previous teams.
43:20And I think we've started to get a talent problem.
43:24You know, we just don't have the players anymore.
43:26When you look at the Indian team, man-to-man,
43:29they're a first-rate unit.
43:31Pakistan is, you know, is disappointing, right?
43:36So I think it's a bit of both.
43:38I think we've got to get back to invest in our cricket
43:41and get our system right and start to throw players.
43:46You know, if you look at the Pakistan team,
43:48it's the same old players just being recycled.
43:50Whereas you look at the Indian team,
43:52they're producing two, three fresh faces every six months.
43:56And when that happens...
43:58It's a talent deficit come unable to handle the pressure.
44:02Shishir Atangdi on the other side, therefore,
44:05should we be hyping it up even as this great rivalry?
44:08It seems that India at the moment is in another league.
44:10That's very different to what it used to be all those years ago
44:13when it was a very closely fought rivalry.
44:15Pretty often, Pakistan would win.
44:17Do you believe now that India is simply at playing at another level
44:20compared to Pakistan?
44:22And we...
44:23Pakistan needs to come to terms with the fact
44:25that they're just not good enough.
44:29Well, if you won eight games in the ICC tournament
44:34and, you know, lost only one,
44:36there's every reason to believe that you're far ahead
44:39in terms of your skills as a cricket team.
44:43And, I mean, it's high time.
44:46Everybody, you know, just shuts off the noise
44:48and focuses on cricket,
44:52which India played much better than Pakistan.
44:55And, you know, there could be various reasons,
44:57but I think, at the moment,
44:59they suffer from a huge inferiority complex
45:01because of the continual embarrassment
45:04that they face after losing a game.
45:07You know, losing a game is one thing,
45:08but then the backlash of it with former players,
45:12with the media...
45:14I mean, it's expected that they lose.
45:16They're not a great side.
45:17Let's accept that first.
45:18After that, you'll have former players
45:21really getting after them
45:22and they suffer from an inferiority complex.
45:25And when you are suffering from an inferiority complex
45:27on a field of play,
45:29it's very hard for you to come out of it
45:31because you know that you're not in the moment.
45:34You're thinking about what will happen after the moment
45:36because, inevitably, you lose a game
45:39and then you're worried about what the backlash
45:41is all going to be.
45:42I mean, Mr. Nakui walking off halfway through the game
45:45is just indicative of the fact
45:47that when your team is losing,
45:49you need backers.
45:51You don't need people to walk away from you.
45:53And this is where I think the problem is.
45:55You know, let's get the frozen diplomacy,
45:58you know, the media rights,
45:59the money coming in from the game.
46:01All this will go eventually.
46:03The media rights and the money,
46:04once the process from a high-ticket,
46:07big-ticket game goes off,
46:09you're not going to draw that kind of money.
46:10You know, today we are talking about it.
46:12We are hyping up a game of cricket
46:14because there's a huge amount of money coming in
46:17from advertising and broadcasting.
46:18But that's going to eventually die.
46:21You know, Javed, therefore,
46:23would Pakistan want the hype to be dialed down?
46:26Is that actually in the best interest of Pakistan?
46:29That Pakistan needs to start coming to...
46:31India seems to now treat the game against Pakistan
46:34as just another game,
46:35where, because of their superiority,
46:38Pakistan seems to be feeling the heat and the pressure
46:41far more because of what happens off the field.
46:45No, Pakistan always gets a tough...
46:49Pakistan always faces a tough time when it loses.
46:52But, you know, the way that we are losing
46:54is now really unacceptable.
46:56Yesterday's game, Pakistan barely turned up.
46:58And that's what people here don't appreciate.
47:01And I think that, you know,
47:02Pakistan's got to get back to basics.
47:06It's something wrong with this cricket structure.
47:08It's not producing the players it used to produce anymore.
47:10And somebody needs to put a plan against it.
47:13And instead of focusing on all the other things,
47:15we should really be focusing on getting our cricket right,
47:18getting our basics right.
47:19If you can't take the pressure,
47:22then find people who can.
47:23And, you know, you've got to be tough with some of these players.
47:25I'm not quite sure what Shaheen Afridi was doing in this team.
47:29You know, Babur is, you know, probably still playing,
47:31but more on reputation.
47:33And, you know, Pakistan's tactics yesterday also,
47:35I'm not quite sure what they were doing.
47:37You know, they had a bad day.
47:39The captain had a bad day too.
47:40That didn't help.
47:42Okay, I'm going to leave it there.
47:43You know, we can go on endlessly about,
47:46you know, what ails Pakistan cricket about 20-25 years ago.
47:50We'd asked the same question about India,
47:51and that's the cycle of the game.
47:53But I appreciate both my guests joining me from across the border.
47:56Maybe we'll have a longer discussion in the course of this tournament.
47:59I want to leave you though with a good news today story.
48:01A baby, barely 10 months of age,
48:04has become Kerala's youngest organ donor,
48:06giving life to five people,
48:08even as the baby was laid to rest with state honors.
48:11The family that decided to allow the hospital authorities
48:14to harvest these organs is being lauded for the noble act.
48:18Baby Arlene's case spotlights the need for more awareness
48:20around the shortage of organs in India,
48:23and the need to come forward to help patients in dire need.
48:26I leave you with tonight's good news story.
48:29Good night. Shubratri. Jaihin. Namaskar.
48:43Ten-month-old baby Arlene laid to rest with full state honors.
48:49A mark of respect to an act that deserves just so much appreciation.
48:54The ten-month-old baby,
48:56Alene Sharon Abraham,
48:59was declared brain dead on the 13th of February
49:02after meeting with a road accident.
49:05In an act of magnanimity,
49:07her family, who escaped with injuries in the same accident,
49:11agreed to donate the infant's organs.
49:16The baby's organs has given life to five,
49:19liver to a six-month-old baby in Tiruvantapuram.
49:21Sharon also donated two kidneys,
49:24a heart valve as well as her eyeballs.
49:28Kerala Health Minister Veena George also attended the last riots.
49:33The youngest organ donor in the state.
49:36So in the, from the deepness of their grief and their sorrow.
49:40So it is, it is quite, quite, I don't know how to describe that.
49:46So it's such an act, which shows love and care for humanity,
49:52which is a model for many others.
49:56Others thanked the grieving parents and lauded them for this brave act.
50:01With this gesture, baby Alene has become the youngest organ donor in Kerala.
50:06In India, as per the government data,
50:093,000 people died in the last five years waiting for organs.
50:12Right now, the list is a very long one of patients waiting for organs.
50:17About 82,000 patients across India are waiting for some sort of the organ or the other.
50:22There's a huge demand for kidneys, for example, with 60,000 plus patients waiting.
50:2618,000 plus patients are waiting for liver.
50:29In India, the donor rate is also poor at one per million population.
50:35Doctors are relying heavily on live donations.
50:39Patients, in fact, who are getting these organs from their family members.
50:43But the essential part of this is to stress on cadaver donations,
50:48which is donations from the deceased.
50:51The removal of the body organs by the specialist should be available at all district levels
50:59and at least the medical colleges of the country.
51:03This department should be developed.
51:05Because we are lacking that infrastructure also.
51:08That is again a problem.
51:12Baby Alene's humanitarian gesture sends a powerful message
51:17of helping those while in dire need.
51:22With Bureau Inputs, Sneha Mordani in New Delhi for India Today Television.
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