- 2 days ago
It's been 31 years since the death of Kurt Cobain, the lead singer of Nirvana. The official story is that he committed suicide. What if he didn't commit suicide? What if, in fact, he was murdered? Well, that is the heart of a new book out now called To Kurt. I'm sorry. Investigative journalist Chris Todd is really behind this book, and really the writer behind this book and the investigator on this book.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15510941/Kurt-Cobains-suicide-homicide.html
Book "To Kurt, I'm Sorry" by Josef Burns https://t.me/MisteryConspiracy/161
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-15510941/Kurt-Cobains-suicide-homicide.html
Book "To Kurt, I'm Sorry" by Josef Burns https://t.me/MisteryConspiracy/161
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NewsTranscript
00:00:00Nirvana frontman Kurt Cobain didn't die by suicide. He was, in fact, murdered. Those are
00:00:05the claims that we made here on the show months ago when interviewing investigative journalist
00:00:09Chris Todd about his mysterious death. We concluded that, in fact, he was murdered on that night.
00:00:16It was covered up for decades, of course. Well, now the Daily Mail has come forward and confirmed
00:00:22those reports, that it was, in fact, a homicide. So we thought it was important to maybe re-examine
00:00:29that initial interview that we did with Chris Todd, where he laid everything out right there
00:00:34on video. And so now we want to replay that video for you right now. Chris Todd and his
00:00:40investigative work that discovered that, in fact, Kurt Cobain was murdered and it wasn't
00:00:45a suicide. Watch. Well, it's hard to believe it's been 31 years since the death of Kurt
00:00:51Cobain, the lead singer of Nirvana. I remember well. I remember where I was standing in school
00:00:57when we got the news about Kurt Cobain's death and many of us who were fans at the time were
00:01:02devastated. Of course, the official story is that he committed suicide. End of story. Case
00:01:08closed. And we're all sad about it. But what if that is not true at all? What if he didn't
00:01:14commit suicide? What if, in fact, he was murdered? Well, that is the heart of a new book out now
00:01:20called To Kurt, I'm Sorry. Investigative journalist Chris Todd is really behind this book, really the
00:01:28writer behind this book and the investigator on this book. And he joins us now. Chris, great
00:01:33to have you back on the show. Welcome back. Yeah, Clayton, good to see you. Hope you've been
00:01:37doing well. I've been doing well. I have to admit, when you first reached out to me a number of months
00:01:43ago about this project, something you've been working on for many, many years, that I was blown
00:01:49away. Kurt Cobain, of course, he committed suicide. That's the official narrative, right? I mean, that's
00:01:55the official story we've been told. Maybe you could just sort of set the stage there for us. What is the
00:01:59official story that we've been told all of these years later? Yeah, and I live this too. You know, this
00:02:05is my generation, the 90s. This happened in 1994. Kurt's body was found on April 8th, around 8 a.m.
00:02:12on that Friday. And I was fed the suicide angle also, and I believed that for many years. I knew
00:02:20there were a couple of things that were a little strange that had come out right away. Some of the
00:02:25toxicology, some fingerprint results. There was some stuff that looked a little sketchy, but I never
00:02:30looked into it. I mean, literally, probably for 28 years. So the narrative is that Kurt Cobain
00:02:38took a Remington Model 11 20-gauge shotgun and put it inside his mouth and took his own life.
00:02:50So that's the official narrative. End of story. Case closed. And we're all sad about it.
00:02:54There were some interesting things that sort of unfolded, though, in the weeks and days and months
00:02:58after it, as it related to his longtime, longtime, I guess, girl. Were they married?
00:03:06They were married. They were married. Courtney Love. Yeah. And then, of course, David Grohl and
00:03:13all of that. Maybe you can unpack a little bit of that drama that was unfolding in the months
00:03:17afterwards. Sure. And that drama continued for a year to two years and even almost to this day. And I know
00:03:24that sounds weird. There's some people that still are on the Courtney thing and Dave and Chris and
00:03:31the Nirvana and Geffen records and all that stuff. In the very immediate aftermath, there was a private
00:03:38investigator. I don't want to say his name. I'd rather just people know who he is. He had recorded
00:03:43Courtney, worked for Courtney. He did documentaries, radio interviews. He really kind of spearheaded
00:03:49the theory that he didn't think it was a suicide. OK, that's encompassed his whole life, even to this
00:03:57day. So he was really pointing a lot of fingers at Courtney. But in in Joseph's book, we never pointed
00:04:05Courtney. And and in my investigation, I never say her name and never point anything at her. And that's
00:04:14for a few reasons. And that can be discussed possibly another time. But Joseph's book is really about
00:04:19his experience, what he witnessed, his journey on the entire situation.
00:04:27All right. So let's talk about this, Joseph Burns. So if we look at the cover of the book
00:04:31to Kurt, I'm sorry, my 30 year journey of regret, pain and disaster. How did you first learn about
00:04:37Joseph Burns? How did you come to to make his acquaintance? Yeah, I it was an interesting journey.
00:04:43I was brought the story by another pretty well known private investigator by the name of Jason
00:04:49Jensen. I can say his name. He's a great guy, does great work. He's helped me out a lot on other cases.
00:04:56You can see him a lot on Fox and he's in on Court TV News Nation. Great guy. I have a lot of respect
00:05:03for Jason. Jason asked me to look at the Kurt Cobain case and story. Someone had reached out to him,
00:05:11I think through Facebook. And I eventually got to meet these other authors, sleuths, kind of,
00:05:19I won't call them witnesses, let's call them investigators in their own way. And then we finally
00:05:25met Joseph. And there was another gentleman that we met also who has recently passed on. And that guy
00:05:32is described in the book. And everyone kind of knows who that is. So there were a couple witnesses,
00:05:38but I basically honed in on Joseph and some other people honed in on this other gentleman.
00:05:44And at first, I love the story because it was 94. It's right before OJ. It's it's the Tupac Biggie
00:05:52stuff. It's John Bonet. It's Waco. It's there's so much River Phoenix. There's so much in the 90s
00:05:58that is really that are really nostalgic to me. So I immediately said, I'm all in. You know,
00:06:04I'm all in. I will do whatever it takes. If if Kurt was murdered, I will prove it and I will do it.
00:06:11You know what I'm capable of. And he said, absolutely, man, that's why we want you to run,
00:06:15you know. And so I spoke to Seattle PD a couple of times in the beginning, top detectives from the
00:06:21cold case unit. And I also went to the media and I was shut down. And I knew that was going to happen.
00:06:28And I said, look, hey, I told Jason, I said, here we go again. You know, we've been on through this
00:06:32with these other cases. He goes, I know. Just just do you just do what you do. And so we're here.
00:06:38And Joseph's been interviewed by some other sleuths and investigators. I wasn't fully a part of that.
00:06:45And I've I have his real confession now in the book and his official statement. And there's things
00:06:52that he has never said, even to these other people over the last two years. So this book is by Joseph
00:06:58Burns. I just I published. I helped ghost write. But but he is the byline. This is his story.
00:07:05Right. I mean, he's not a writer, so he needed someone to help. Right. I'll put that together.
00:07:09And there's other moving parts. Right. It's not just him. There's nine people at the house
00:07:13that night. Nine minus Kurt. OK, so who is Joseph Burns? Maybe we were getting ahead of ourselves.
00:07:18Sure. But who is this guy? Joseph Burns was a rocker. He's a drummer, singer in Seattle.
00:07:25He was in a band called Aspirin Feast and a band called Laceration. And he was a he was a rocker.
00:07:32He was a punk dude. He was a biker at one time. And he had some felonies. He was involved in the
00:07:37drug game, different types of drugs. And but that's part of the story with Kurt Cobain.
00:07:43You know, this is who was at the house. Most of these people were drug users and dealers.
00:07:48Some of them were called nannies that watched Kurt and Courtney's child, Francis Bean.
00:07:55There's, you know, so basically, Joseph is kind of like a smaller rocker than Kurt.
00:08:01Obviously, Kurt was worldwide. But at the time, and Joseph tells us in the book,
00:08:07Kurt wasn't well known when he met him. And Dylan Carlson, another rocker from a band called Earth
00:08:13and Kurt's good friend said, said to Joseph, my friend wants to meet who really likes your band.
00:08:18That was Kurt Cobain. And that's how he met him. He met him in about 1989. It was about five years
00:08:25before the actual demise of Kurt.
00:08:29So he's a rocker. He's a Seattle rocker, not as well known as Nirvana and Kurt Cobain,
00:08:34but they were in that circle. Oh, yeah. Sort of in that party circle. And was it normal that they
00:08:38would hang out? Yeah, for sure. I mean, we talked about the Jesters of Chaos. We talked about other
00:08:44bands, the punk scene, how grunge kind of if you want to call it grunge, they like to call it
00:08:49different names and how that the heavy metal and the punk kind of became grunge and grunge had that
00:08:56pop feel to it. And that's what Kurt mastered. Right. And Pearl Jam and Soundgarden and Alice in Chains.
00:09:04There was a lot. This was a big, this was a big era. Stone Temple Pilots. So many of them, you know,
00:09:10Queens of the Stone Age, Screaming Trees. And that's going to be an important thing in this story today
00:09:15is one of the lead singer of the Screaming Trees. But they all hung out. They all knew each other.
00:09:21And unfortunately, most of them were addicts, were heroin and cocaine and alcohol abusers.
00:09:30Do they share similar like drug dealers and all that? Yes, absolutely. Yeah. And then in some of
00:09:37the stuff in Joseph's book, and we're allowed to say some of these things, and also some recordings
00:09:42that we have to, you know, the biker mentality was kind of big to the biker gang, the drug dealing
00:09:49protection. A lot of people went down a lot of soldiers fell drug overdoses, murders, even in
00:09:57Seattle and Portland, LA. We know this time in the 90s. This was a crazy time period. So they were
00:10:03all mixed up together. And Joseph and his girlfriend were involved in basically dealing also heroin to
00:10:12Kurt Cobain.
00:10:15So maybe, I guess maybe we should just jump to the time period when he's, when he dies.
00:10:23What was happening maybe in the days and weeks ahead of time? And how does Joseph relate to that
00:10:28before his death?
00:10:30Yeah, so there's a lot of stuff going on. We won't be able to cover it all. And I'll just keep it kind
00:10:35of brief. It's 30 years of moving parts, nine separate people squealing on each other loosely in
00:10:42other books. It's a lot of stuff. Basically, if we just pick it up from having a lot of people there at
00:10:49the house, there was an intervention done with Kurt a few days before. He had tried to cancel
00:10:55Lollapalooza. They wanted to pay him like $9 million. He said, I don't want to do it.
00:11:01Courtney was kind of upset. The band was upset. Geffen Records, Golden Mountain, I think was the
00:11:06name, Gold Mountain, one of them. And so there was this intervention and Kurt had gone down to LA
00:11:11and Courtney went down separately also with the child. And Kurt was to go to rehab. He lasted about a
00:11:18day and a half there and then came back to Seattle without anybody knowing. And that's when this whole
00:11:24journey was triggered. He comes back. Basically, it's late at night on April 1st. And then from April
00:11:312nd to April 5th, this is a window of key days where these people are interacting with Kurt Cobain
00:11:39and eventually he is murdered. Okay. So he leaves drug rehab in Southern California,
00:11:47flies back to Seattle. He's back there on April 2nd. He dies on April 1st. They find his body on April
00:11:548th. Yeah. He lands on April 1st and then he's at the house. It's just one of these magical things.
00:12:00But at 1 a.m. he arrives home. It's actually April 2nd. Okay. Just to keep it because people will pick
00:12:07this stuff apart. So yeah. Now his body is found on April 8th. The coroner and the investigators,
00:12:15the Seattle PD, say he dies on April 5th. Okay. In our book, in Joseph's statements,
00:12:23his confession, Kurt is killed on Easter Sunday at around 2 a.m. That's April 3rd, 2 a.m.
00:12:30April 3rd. So his body is found five days later. Yes.
00:12:38Okay. So April 2nd, he gets in at around one in the morning on April 2nd. What happens after that?
00:12:46So, I mean, I'll give you kind of the brief version and then I can not, if you want me to
00:12:50talk about the murder and the staging of the suicide, ask me that separately. I'd like to just,
00:12:54I don't want to blend them all together if that's okay. Sure. Okay. So let's just talk about him
00:12:59coming back. There's already people in the house. Joseph's there, his girlfriend, a girl named
00:13:04Jen Adamson. And I'm sorry, if people don't know this, whose house is this? Does Kurt Cobain own the
00:13:10house? Kurt's mansion. Okay. On Lake Washington in Seattle. I think the address is 171. Yeah. And so
00:13:22when he comes home at one, he's tired. There's people there, they're shooting up, they're drinking,
00:13:26they're smoking weed. Some of them are playing music. Some of them are doing tattoo work.
00:13:31They're all kind of artists. A lot of these people are very interesting. Some went on to be designers,
00:13:36rock journalists, famous people. A lot of these people are very well known today. And so Kurt comes
00:13:43home and there's people already at his house. They don't really know he's coming. Some do, but some don't.
00:13:48And I initially in my investigation from what Joseph had told me in the very beginning that
00:13:54Kurt was murdered right then within hours when he came home. Okay. Things have changed a little,
00:14:01he's hidden things, other people. And this was part of an investigation. I'm not always going to have
00:14:05every detail correct. So I'll be the first one to admit in my first interviews and first statements
00:14:12and stuff about the case was that he died on April 2nd. Okay. I'm off by a day. All right. So
00:14:19the next day comes the next morning, whatever. Some people say they see Kurt always saying to me in the
00:14:25bed, they're saying he's still alive. We didn't believe them at first through the books. And so
00:14:31some stuff happens. I don't know everything that happens on April 2nd. Um, and then we lead into April,
00:14:37um, the night of April 2nd. Now we're going to lead into the early morning of April 3rd. And this is
00:14:43when everything goes awry and three men show up at the house, just like barnstormers. And, and it,
00:14:52it happens right there. So we're like a 24 hour period. He's home at one in the morning. Does he go to
00:14:59sleep? Is he awake? He's there's people in his house kind of the whole time through a whole 24 hour
00:15:05period. And then into April 3rd, is it early morning hours? Are we talking like two in the
00:15:11morning, three in the morning? We're talking 2 AM when the deed is done and these people stay there.
00:15:16This is going to sound crazy. They stay there for another two days while his body's in the greenhouse.
00:15:22Yes. So these three individuals show up who, so Joseph saw these three people show up.
00:15:30Oh, he knows two of them very well. The other one is a little gray and hazy, but we do name that
00:15:39person in the book. The third, there's two, there's two main killers. Okay. I can name them
00:15:46because they're in the book. It's up to you. If you don't want me to name them, if your lawyers
00:15:50are like, don't let Chris Todd say their names. How about this, Chris? They can read the book if they
00:15:54want to get the names. You've written the names down. It's in the book and you name names,
00:15:58you name names in the book. Yes. And I can say that one of the men, I can say their first names,
00:16:05right? I'll say that Dylan and Mark and Mark is a, we didn't know this for a long time. And this is
00:16:12really one of the hooks in the book. The gotcha moment is this guy, Mark, who people will look up,
00:16:17who will know from the grunge scene. He is a famous person. He died a couple of years ago.
00:16:22Dylan is still alive. And the other third guy has died this year. So one of them is alive,
00:16:30but it's a fascinating story about Mark and Kurt's relationship as very good friends.
00:16:37And all these guys used to cross dress together. They wore the lipstick. They see these famous
00:16:41pictures and there's photos of Kurt with these two men and they're online. They're photographed.
00:16:48They're wearing dresses. This is what they did. It wasn't like as if they were bisexual. It was more
00:16:55of a punk rock thing. And this shows how ahead of their time, these guys really were, this was not
00:17:00really going on in 1994. So. All right. So back to the murder. Why did they kill him? What do we know
00:17:09what unfolded that led them to, to, to kill Kurt Cobain? There's a lot of different reasons. If we look,
00:17:16was there jealousy between Dylan and Mark and their bands, they were smaller time guys, they don't have
00:17:21a lot of money. Kurt's this big famous guy. They've been with him for years. They've seen him like
00:17:27his trajectory, right? We're not going to talk about some elements of motive because I know certain
00:17:35things I can't say about other people. And the book, like we said, it focuses on what Joseph sees.
00:17:43Okay. It's not about what are they thinking? One thing that Joseph does talk about in the book is,
00:17:50and he uses, we use these kinds of little terms, the knuckleheads, the three stooges,
00:17:57the three musketeers kind of saying like, these guys came there and we're up to no good.
00:18:02The moment I saw them come in, Oh, Hey, what's up guys? What's going on? The looks on their face.
00:18:07They were not there to party. They were on some type of weird mission. And that's how Joseph
00:18:13describes that because Joseph had been in the game of felon himself. So he knew as he calls them licks
00:18:21in the, in the book, I've done this before. I know that look. And I was fascinated by that. I said,
00:18:27man, just, I like, just tell me more, man. He's like, I knew right away. They were up to no good.
00:18:33Where's Kurt in the basement. What's going on? And he follows them down to the basement.
00:18:41And is it presumably, Oh, they're up to no good. They're coming to rob the place. They're coming to
00:18:47Joseph. No, Joseph has no idea what, what's, what's going to happen here in about 10 minutes.
00:18:54So he just sees that their faces, they're up to no good. They're on a mission. They're not here
00:18:59to hang out and party and play music. They're here to do something. Where's Kurt Cobain? So he sees
00:19:04them with his own eyes come in and then go down to the basement. Kurt's in the basement with two other
00:19:10women. Yeah. He's playing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, you know, there's a lot of people in the house
00:19:19and as Joseph says in the book, and we put this in the prologue, he's not going to remember what
00:19:24every person is doing every minute, what room they're in. So he's trying to say like, give me
00:19:30some leeway, just take a breath. Okay. Cause a lot of these true crime people, they're like wolves,
00:19:35man. Like, and Oh, he doesn't know where, uh, um, Jessica Hopper was. Oh, why? Well, he doesn't
00:19:42remember every single second of what all these people are doing. This was traumatic experience that he
00:19:48buried for 30 years. Okay. Also not to defend him. I don't know him, but I mean, I've, I've been to
00:19:56parties, college and otherwise where you've been there at two in the morning. Right. And, uh,
00:20:02I don't, you know, God knows, you know, two in the morning, you're going to remember every detail.
00:20:06You don't know where unless he was sitting there meditating and not having any alcohol or anything
00:20:11at all. Oh, no, no, no. He was up for days. This is heroin use drugs. He said literally he didn't
00:20:17sleep the day before at all. So, and the way it happened so fast, the way he tells the story,
00:20:23he tries to protect the girls when it's happening in front of him. He hid this for a long time. He
00:20:28never told anyone this ever. I'm the only person he ever told it to. He told some other things to
00:20:33people over time. Cause they were trying to help them. They tried to do like a GoFundMe page.
00:20:38He was like the borderline homeless at one time. So, but let's just stick to the moment.
00:20:43And they come in. He doesn't really know this third person. He knows the other two. He knows
00:20:49Dylan and Mark a hundred percent. And they race downstairs. He follows as if like, what's going
00:20:56on? And then when they get down there, there's an assault of, of Kurt Cobain and he is hotshotted,
00:21:03um, forcefully.
00:21:07Okay. What does that mean? Sorry. He's, he's down there with two women. He's playing his guitar
00:21:12with these two women. Yeah. He's just hanging out and smoking weed, drinking beers. You know,
00:21:16they're Joe's girlfriend is down there. And another girl that, um, is a faith has a famous
00:21:22brother that I won't say the name the second, but she died. She actually died in 2000 of a,
00:21:27either a hot shot or of an overdose hot shot, meaning hot loads of heroin can either be dirty
00:21:35heroin or excessive amounts. So hot shots, hot loads, they overdose Kurt. They force him. They
00:21:44already have these pre-made syringes already, already done up.
00:21:48So they force him and Joseph witnesses this.
00:21:52Yes.
00:21:54Joseph witnesses these three individuals forcing him to mainly the two, mainly, mainly Mark and Dylan.
00:22:01The other guy we can say is named Danny. Cause everyone's kind of a fan of his story.
00:22:07He passed away this year. He's, he's, he's honing in on Mark and Dylan because the things with Danny
00:22:13he's not, doesn't have a hard con firm. That's him, but he can't rule them out. And there's a lot
00:22:18of weird stuff. Danny said over the years and recently, so we've left him in there and, but it's
00:22:26mainly these two are assaulting Kurt, trying to hit him with something. He's confused about like
00:22:33whether it's being, he's being punched and held down or they're grabbing something. He's, he's
00:22:38literally kind of in shock. Okay. He's in shock of what he is witnessing. Now, Joseph also has a
00:22:46regret. That's why the book says my 30 year journey of regret, pain and disaster. He should have helped.
00:22:53Well, and, and the title is to Kurt. I'm sorry. What is he sorry about that? He didn't stop it.
00:22:58Correct. Because I mean, think about it. This was, he was good friends with Kurt.
00:23:04You know, he loved Kurt and I think Kurt loved Joe and, and it'd be like you witnessing your friend
00:23:11who is a very famous person basically be assaulted. Now, remember at this time,
00:23:17it's not like he's watching a murder there. If they're injecting them, they're not shooting him
00:23:23at this moment. So he doesn't, he just doesn't know what's going on. So he's got the girls. One
00:23:28of them screams. We talk about it in there. He's kind of pushing them back and it's just,
00:23:34it's bad, man. It's bad. I feel for the guy. I deal with a lot of accomplices and witnesses
00:23:39for over 10 years. I know it's hard for them to talk about it. And then Kurt is basically dragged
00:23:46out of there and he witnesses that and he is dragged out of the house and into the separate
00:23:51greenhouse. And he knows that's where they are. Cause he sees them in there when he goes in the
00:23:56driveway, a little out, a couple minutes after he's trying to see what what's going on, but he
00:24:00does not go in the greenhouse. So he has an overdose. They drag them out of there. Is he dead at that
00:24:08point? I believe for me, cause other people say different things and based on the coroner and
00:24:13the whole investigation is a joke. I'm just sorry to say it's a joke. So the corner doesn't say
00:24:21Kurt is deceased and it's a post-mortem wound. It's kind of left in a weird gray area. I do believe
00:24:28based on the autopsy, based on other sources and people that have looked, I do believe Kurt Cobain
00:24:33was dead when he was shot through his mouth.
00:24:39So he was probably still alive before he was shot.
00:24:43Well, I think he's dead.
00:24:45Oh, you think he's dead?
00:24:46I think he's deceased. Yeah.
00:24:48Okay. So
00:24:49he may have had an overdose then, right then and there
00:24:53dies. They drag his body out.
00:24:56Or he dies when he's at, look, remember this gunshot's not going to be
00:24:59hurt for 40 minutes. So he could still be alive when they're dragging them. Right. But when they
00:25:05lay him down in the greenhouse, he could die within 10 minutes. The amount of heroin he had
00:25:10in the system was 1.52 milligrams per liter. Normal addicts with a relatively normal tolerance can die
00:25:19at 0.3. Okay. So he has five times the amount. Kurt weighed about 140 pounds. Okay. And people try to
00:25:29argue like, well, he was such an addict. He had a high tolerance. Dude, there's addicts that die
00:25:33at 0.3, 0.4. He has 1.52. Do the math. Okay. And it's injected. It's not swallowed. They try to do
00:25:43all this misinformation, disinformation. Oh, a guy, you know, he swallowed a thing that would give him
00:25:47two grams. That's swallowing. This is straight into his veins. Okay. So he, I believe is dead.
00:25:55There's not a lot of blood coming out of his ear. There is some blood, but I guess, you know,
00:26:01his head actually doesn't blow out, which I thought it would when I initially came out. I used to say
00:26:07that people tried to rip me apart for it. I guess technically the pellets did not penetrate through
00:26:12his skull. So it's actually inside his head. It's, it's disturbing. It's, it's sad. It's a very sad
00:26:19story. And Joseph has had the courage to do this. So. All right. So let's go back to,
00:26:25they're carrying the body out. Joseph loses track of them at that moment. He's watching them
00:26:29carry Kurt out and he doesn't stop it or interact with them. Correct. And then he, he comes upstairs
00:26:35and he's take me through the next stages. Sure. Yeah. After a few minutes, after the girls are
00:26:41freaking out, right. And he's freaking out. He kind of drifts outside into the driveway. This greenhouse
00:26:48is separated from the house. It's above the garage. So they're almost, they're almost like
00:26:53perpendicular to each other. Okay. They're like, like side by side, adjacent, whatever he finally
00:27:00goes out. I got it. I'm going to smoke a cigarette. They don't know what's going on. The other people
00:27:04in the house, he can't really remember what they're doing. He believes there's only the three guys in the
00:27:09greenhouse. When he goes out to the driveway, he sees some motion. Okay. He can see, he doesn't see
00:27:15clearly. Remember it's two in the morning. He's, he sees movement up there and then he hears a gun
00:27:22blast. Okay. At that point, as he talks about in the book, part of the regret, should I have gone up
00:27:30there? And partly what we talked about with him or I did. And I said, let's say it a certain way,
00:27:36but tell me what you're feeling. Try to go back. He said, do you think I'm going to walk in there and
00:27:42they're going to kill me too? And I said, I get it. Okay. He's like, I'm not trying to get killed.
00:27:49Okay. Obviously something happened. They only have to do is turn the gun on him. He walks in,
00:27:54what's going on. So obviously Joseph had his own history of being in, you know, criminal circles
00:28:01and knew I'm not going to walk in there. And, and I tried to, you know, stick up for him and say,
00:28:07I get it. They're going to understand, man, they're going to feel for you, you know? And then
00:28:12after that, and then after that, a little later, he then sees Dylan and Mark in the house. And it's
00:28:20very strange about, you got to get out of here. You don't want to deal with this. What's going on?
00:28:25Where's Kurt? Oh man. Just, you know, like they're not saying it to him. And then he eventually goes and
00:28:32looks at the body kind of hours later when everything kind of, it's like settling down
00:28:39and he never told anyone this in 30 years, he eventually goes and looks and sees Kurt in the
00:28:45greenhouse deceased. So these two guys, they're kind of saying, well, you don't really want to
00:28:52know. We're not going to tell you it's a don't, you don't need to bother about it. Whereas Kurt,
00:28:56you don't need to bother about it. It's kind of, it's like what? Three in the morning at this point,
00:29:00four in the morning. Oh yeah. Or later, or later, 5am, 6am. They're all there the next day too,
00:29:06because there's a key thing that happens on Monday. That's when Joseph leaves is actually on
00:29:12Monday. All these people stay there and they're still shooting up and they're drinking beers and
00:29:17they're, I don't know. I don't have the answers of why they're all staying there.
00:29:23It's crazy. I mean, they just, it's just like a flop house. It's just like a drug flop house. I mean,
00:29:28I've covered these things in the news where just people, you know, people are in these random
00:29:33houses and they're there for days, you know, they're sleeping on the floor, they're sleeping
00:29:37on mattresses and they're just there. And it was sort of an open revolving door policy to have
00:29:41people just flowing into your house. So, but I think it's very important. Joseph then admits
00:29:4730 years later that on, I guess it was that Sunday morning or I guess it would have been Sunday
00:29:55morning, Easter Sunday. He tries to go and find Kurt at some point, maybe three, four, five in the
00:30:02morning. Right. And he goes up to this greenhouse and he sees the body. Yes. And he, and he, and he
00:30:10didn't tell people this for 30 years and he didn't ever mention Mark's name for 30 years. He never
00:30:16talked about any of this for 30 years. So, um, yeah. And, and, and look, I've asked him many times.
00:30:22People ask me a lot, like, can I talk to Joseph? No. Well, I want to talk well with me and gently,
00:30:30you know, cause they're coming at him. They're all, he's got groupies and they offer him money to come
00:30:35on, man. It's Kurt. This is traumatic. This is a dark story. There's legality issues. Okay. There
00:30:42are criminal elements. Okay. Between a witness and accessory. Okay. There's a very fine line.
00:30:51He's had the courage to do it. That's number one, but yes, he finally admitted. I saw him in there.
00:30:58I didn't see his face. I didn't look in. I didn't go in. He's trying to, and if he went in, maybe,
00:31:03I don't know, but I'm saying he's kind of keeping that buffer of like, I saw his shoes. I knew how he
00:31:09tied his shoes. Okay. And then when you look from the back, you see his shoe facing you, not the sole,
00:31:16the front, because that's the back. You can't enter from the front. There's a balcony. You have to come
00:31:22through the, through the back. There's a French doors. That's what the police bust in. They go through
00:31:28the back door. His feet are away from us towards the front. Okay. So that's what he says. I knew how
00:31:35he tied his shoes and I, you know, look, this could go on for hours. I'm just, obviously there's a lot
00:31:41of things racing through his mind. Right. Yeah. At that moment. Now he officially knows one of his
00:31:48very good friends. One of the top rock stars of his generation just got killed while they're there.
00:31:56That's a problem for all of them. Not just the two plus the one guy, the other six of them. Okay. So,
00:32:06so then he, he takes this, he doesn't say a word about it. Um,
00:32:14and no one else does either. And no one else does either. That's important to know. None of these
00:32:20people have talked none when they find. So then I guess when they find, you talked about the staging
00:32:25of the, the, what you believe to be a murder. What do you mean by that? How, how was it staged?
00:32:32What did the police find on the eighth of April? So now this is five days later. Yeah. I just stick
00:32:39to the key things that to me, I'm not a cop. I'm not a lawyer. We get it. I am an investigator. It's
00:32:46what I do. I've been doing it for over 10 years. I like to think I'm pretty good at what I do.
00:32:50There's a couple of key things that should have set off red flags to the police. They called it a
00:32:56suicide within the same day. That's a problem. They had no fingerprint analysis results from
00:33:03the gun, the pen, you know, the pen was stabbed through a suicide note, supposedly into a potted
00:33:09plant. They don't test any fingerprints on the gun case, the shells, the box of shells,
00:33:16all this stuff. Okay. There's cigarette butts, you know, there's no touch DNA. So can I ask you
00:33:23all these years later in the cold case, are these pieces of evidence still being held in evidence?
00:33:29Do they still have the gun? Do they still have the shell casings? So they could do DNA tests on
00:33:34them all these years later. Absolutely. But they closed the case at 5 PM on, on Friday. And that's
00:33:40where they made the mistake. They had no toxicology report back yet. Okay. None.
00:33:46And they had some weird rule, like the beat cops can say it's a suicide. And if they say it's a
00:33:51suicide, the detectives are off the case. There's some weird, they try to play this game at the
00:33:56Seattle PD. It's just disturbing. There were a lot of detectives there. Detective Cameron was one of
00:34:02the key guys. He died years ago. And even the coroner had died in a paragliding accident,
00:34:07accidentally years, years later. Let me just say some of the key evidence, because people like the
00:34:14details and the forensics somewhat, you have a man with a gun laying on his chest. Okay. The way he
00:34:23falls looks strange. First of all, he's holding this gun and they try to say, Oh, he had a death
00:34:29grip. So when he, he's seated, when he goes back, he's, he tenses up and he holds. That is not true.
00:34:35That does not happen in every death that the body seizes. That's not true. This was perpetuated for
00:34:42a long time. Go watch other murders. Watch the bodies. Don't all seize up when they get killed.
00:34:48Okay. So he's holding this thing. The way he's holding, it's weird. The way his body is sitting
00:34:54is strange. The gun is turned upside down. The shell that should come out of the ejection chambers on the
00:35:01wrong side, on the wrong side. So if he had held it the way he did and he popped it, that gun has an
00:35:10automatic recoil ejection. The shell should have shot out to the correct side. It's on the wrong side.
00:35:18That's one of the biggest pieces of evidence that this is staged. Okay. Right. Because, well,
00:35:24I'm just picturing it in my head. If he, if someone is holding his head and pulls the trigger,
00:35:29the shell goes out one side, if he's doing it in the reverse and doing it to himself,
00:35:34yeah, it would go out the opposite direction. And if you're high drunk and on drugs at four in the
00:35:41morning, maybe that's a, maybe that's something you don't think about. And I also believe to me,
00:35:46this is my theory. I believe they, they put it against their shoulder. Cause now there's some
00:35:53evidence that this type of gun, if it's not shouldered or has something to bounce off the
00:35:59back of the stock, it will not eject the shell. A guy's been proving that he's been holding the
00:36:05barrel and just shooting it. And the shell stays in, you have to rack it. Okay. So what he's trying
00:36:10to show is if Kurt's sitting up and there's nothing, and he's like holding it is the floor. Wouldn't it slide
00:36:18on the floor out of his hands and he falls back like this instead of him still holding it like
00:36:23that? So the point is the shell is supposed to eject, but they're questioning, did it even eject
00:36:30at all? But what I'm saying is when they lay him down, they just shoulder it and they sit on them and
00:36:37they shoot them. Then they stage. And obviously they're wiping this thing down. Cause there's no
00:36:42fingerprints found on the gun, not even Kurt's. So they obviously, whether they're wearing gloves,
00:36:48whether they're wiping it down, look, DNA is not a huge deal in 94. They're not thinking about too
00:36:53much of that fingerprints. They should be in the pens wiped down. So they obviously are staging this
00:36:59in more ways than one. They put the, the barks root beer there. They put the little cigar box with
00:37:06the needles, with the caps on them. Okay. There's a spoon with some black tar heroin in there. They
00:37:12leave that there. They're staging this. And also I'll say this, how many cases you ever seen where
00:37:18the suicide victim has the receipt to the gun in his pocket and the receipt to the shells in a bag
00:37:27by his foot? Okay. You don't see that. Okay. When people commit suicide, they don't say, yeah,
00:37:34here's the receipt. Now I want to show you here's that's in my pocket. And then look by my feet.
00:37:38There's a receipt to the shells. It's a setup. It's staged. And all this stuff needed to be
00:37:43red flagged by the Seattle PD, not right away, but come on, man. This guy is like a hero to half
00:37:52of Seattle. And you're just going to write it. Yeah. Suicide. They're doing interviews.
00:37:57Courtney's reading the letter pretty fast after that MTV. He did this. He did this. They're all
00:38:03crying in the park. Come on, man. Yeah. You violated this guy's civil rights. You dragged
00:38:09this guy's name through the mud for 30 years. You called him the poster boy for suicide. There
00:38:15were copycat suicides. It's disgraceful. I'm sorry to get fired up about it, but it's, it's,
00:38:23it's unacceptable. And I'm not saying they're going to reopen the case. I'm not saying you should
00:38:27reopen the case. It's a story. Okay. And it's for Kurt. Okay. That's what it talks about. That's
00:38:34why it's too Kurt. I'm sorry. The suicide note is interesting too. I remember when they released
00:38:42that and it said something like, I'll be happier. I love you. I love you. Yeah. You're better off
00:38:50without me. Well, I'm telling you right now, we believe Kurt did not write those last four
00:38:54lines. They're not in the same font. I mean, they're not in the same handwriting and they've
00:38:59had multiple handwriting experts look at it. There's some press out there that Jason Jensen
00:39:03was able to get out. You can go look them up. Jason has his own take and what he's doing too.
00:39:09And he, he had a report done and they believe that that those last four lines are not Kurt writing that
00:39:16they're not the same sizing. The spacing is different. It is off. The letters are not the same exactly.
00:39:23And Kurt's letter is not suicidal. He's talking about, um, faking it. I, you know, I just want
00:39:28you guys to all know. Yeah. Cause he's trying to break up Nirvana. He wanted to do his own solo
00:39:33thing. Joseph talks about that. He wanted Joseph to play with them. Let's do something with your
00:39:38band too, man. Nirvana, the whole thing, he punched Chris Novoselic in the face days when they tried to
00:39:45take Kurt to rehab before Chris drove him to the airport and, and Kurt punched him in the face.
00:39:50That's his basis of Nirvana. There was a lot of problems. They canceled Lollapalooza.
00:39:56Everybody was mad. He lost money. Okay. The European tour, they, they looks like they gave him
00:40:03a head and all and tried to kill him in Rome. He was OD'd and he woke up and said some weird
00:40:09things to people. And the doctor said he didn't think he was suicidal. Look it up.
00:40:13We're hypno Rome weeks before. Wow. And so were these individuals that are referenced in the book
00:40:23that Joseph names, have they ever been investigated at all? None, zero. And two of them are now dead.
00:40:32At least three of them are deceased. Yes. One, one killer, one accomplice, one witness. Yes. Three of these
00:40:42nine are deceased. There's six left. What do we think the motive was in, if they were coming there
00:40:51with a mission, what do you think the motive was? Well, that's why I have to be careful because if I,
00:40:56if I try to say like, were these men told to do it and were they offered free drugs for the rest of
00:41:04their life, I have to be careful how I say that to me. And in my investigations on a lot of cases,
00:41:12I don't care so much about motive. A lot of people, you know, this recent stuff in the news with the
00:41:18shootings, what's the motive? What's the motive? I don't care. I don't care what their motive is.
00:41:23They did something not only bad, it's really the worst thing you can do in life on this planet
00:41:30is take another person's soul. Okay. It's literally the worst thing you can do. You could have a bunch
00:41:37of different excuses. I really don't care. So whether they're jealous of Kurt, whether someone
00:41:41told them to do it, whether they were abetted, aided and abetted. Okay. I'm not going to talk about
00:41:48that too much. And in the book, we only address that for a very brief moment. We're only focusing
00:41:54on what happened there with the people that are there. So where do we, where do you go from here
00:42:01with this? Do the, uh, any indication that police will open, reopen an investigation with all of this
00:42:07evidence? I mean, do you want my personal opinion, my professional opinion on this? Sure.
00:42:12The case is over. This case is closed. This is a story. And this is for Kurt. This is his swan song.
00:42:20This is his goodbye. This is, this is him talking through Joseph. If these other witnesses want to
00:42:26come forward, they can too. They, I'm sure they have their own version of the story. One of them
00:42:31sort of wants to talk. We've had conversations with them. They still, they're a little hesitant.
00:42:36That's up to them. The book is out there. It's only like seven days old. This is it. Okay. Whatever
00:42:43the other people want to say, that's for them. But I believe this case is, is closed. Do I have some
00:42:502% hope? Sure. They opened key FD, right? They did the Tupac thing in Vegas. The Vegas PD had courage
00:42:57to do it, get some press. I offered that to Seattle PD and they laughed at me. I'm sorry. I'm not going
00:43:04to help you like that. It's just unacceptable. And, and they've had a paradigm in their head
00:43:09with this. I think they didn't like Kurt Cobain, to be honest. I really do. I don't think they liked
00:43:14him. He had dark lyrics. He was a heroin user, drug user, artist. They hated grunge. They hated
00:43:21heavy metal, the punk rockers. They thought some of them were white supremacists. It's hard to say
00:43:27that word. There was a lot of stuff. They, they, they, they saw it. Hey, there's a guy gun there. Oh,
00:43:33there's a note. What do we got? Oh, there's a note. Look, look at this. That looks good
00:43:37to me. How about you guys? Yeah. Pretty straightforward.
00:43:42Yeah. I mean, the note is interesting to me on a whole other level. So it's like they
00:43:46basically took, they co-opted a note that he was writing and added to it to make it seem
00:43:52like a suicide note at the bottom.
00:43:54Kurt was always writing. He had all these weird little letters. He wrote letters to Courtney.
00:43:59He, he, he, this was on the back of an IHOP menu. This guy was an artist through and
00:44:04through. This guy was a genius. If you really listen to his songs, he was a genius. Okay.
00:44:11Imagine what he could have done. He was 27 years old. This guy worked really hard to get
00:44:17where he was. They were not known. They went through like three drummers. They had different
00:44:22band names. So we're to believe Kurt Cobain and he has a child, a one and a half year old
00:44:28and he's going to take his own life. Yeah. Things were bad. Maybe Nirvana was going to break
00:44:34up. Maybe he's going to do something on his own. Yeah. John Lennon did stuff on his own
00:44:38too. Okay. So we were deprived of this man's genius. Okay. And I wasn't even a big Nirvana
00:44:46fan. Okay. I won't say who I was because they'll freak out. My, my point is I'm here to work for
00:44:53Kurt as an investigator, as a journalist, as an, as a writer to help this guy tell his story. So for
00:45:00me moving forward, there's a lot of moving parts. There's a lot of people online to me. I feel I've
00:45:06done all I can. And so has Joseph from there. That's organic. And that is up to, up to the,
00:45:15to destiny in a way. Well, it's remarkable story. I've never heard. I'm sure most of our
00:45:22audience has never heard it either. Um, a lot of questions remain and we can't go through all of
00:45:26them, but I would encourage people to read the book, get Joseph's firsthand perspective on what
00:45:30he saw those nights and those days, those early morning hours and what happened to his friend,
00:45:36Kurt Cobain. Um, Chris, thank you so much. It's a remarkable story. Thank you for sharing it with me.
00:45:41Yeah. Thank you for letting, um, us have a platform like this with your, uh, subscribers
00:45:46and audience. I really want to thank you. And Joseph thanks you too. I did give a heads up
00:45:51that I would be talking with you and he wanted to say, thank you so much for, for allowing this.
00:45:57Bill Bain's body was found today. He had apparently shot himself in the head
00:46:01with a, uh, with a shotgun and, uh, his body was found by an electrician who was doing work on the
00:46:07house. The guy came in, uh, found the body, called the police. And, uh, obviously it, it, uh, the details
00:46:14have been coming out, uh, since then. They think he could have been dead up to two days. His wife,
00:46:19Courtney, uh, love, as you know, um, out of town, uh, recording an album, they think in Los Angeles.
00:46:26So we don't really have much from her yet, but, uh, you know, details are still kind of sketchy
00:46:30because the whole thing is such a shock to everybody. He was 28 years old, had a little
00:46:34baby named Francis Bean about a year ago. Right. It's, uh, it's a big, big shock. And, um,
00:46:40it's, it's sort of hard to come to grips with for a lot of people.
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