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Coke and a Conversation Presents “Say their names: A Conversation with Mothers of the Black Lives Matter Movement” featuring Sybrina Fulton, Valerie Bell, and Wanda Cooper-Jones hosted by Rev. Al Sharpton.
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00:00Everyone, as we mobilize against injustice all over this nation and world, we are going to have
00:15an important conversation with three women, mothers, who lost their child in cases that
00:23has galvanized our communities and galvanized the movement. And I'm honored to have this
00:30conversation with them. I've worked with these three cases, some very closely, and I think
00:38it is important we talk to them as mothers, women, because that has been the bedrock of
00:45this movement. We have Sabrina Fulton, who is the mother of Trayvon Martin, who was killed
00:52by a wannabe police officer, a wannabe security guard in 2012. We have with us Ms. Bell, who
01:03is the mother of Sean Bell, and Valerie lost her son to a New York City policeman. And we
01:13have, of course, Wanda Jones, whose son was killed while jogging by three white males in Brunswick,
01:24Georgia. And this was a case that ignited the country about a few days, if not a couple of
01:34days before the George Floyd killings. And our conversation is to give you a sense of the
01:40strength and backbone of the movement, always started with mothers. Never forget that Rosa
01:47Parks, sitting down, was what launched the Civil Rights Movement. These mothers standing up
01:54is what launched this movement today. And let us not get lost in the fact that they seek justice,
02:01not just movement. Let me start by saying that thank you all for being with us and sharing
02:10with the world your feelings as mothers. That's what Essence is about. That is what we are saluting
02:17this weekend of the 50th anniversary. Sabrina, tell us about your relationship with Trayvon as
02:25a mother. We know Trayvon as the person that was a symbol of our mobilizing millions. But
02:33you knew him as your son. And what did this case and his killing mean to you?
02:38Thank you for having me, Rel. But Trayvon was my baby. He is the youngest of two boys. And he
02:50was very affectionate. He was very family oriented. He ate a quite, he ate a lot, but he didn't
02:58gain a lot of weight. He has just started getting into girls who wanted to smell good. He wanted
03:06to look good. He always wanted his hair cut. I used to tell him, you just think so cute. And
03:13he say, I am. And he was, um, you know, he, he didn't, it didn't matter where he saw me at. He
03:20would just come over and give me a hug. It didn't matter if it was at the park. It could have been in
03:24the middle of the street. He didn't care. You know, he's just that compassionate. He was just that
03:29loving, you know, and, um, I do miss him a great deal, but I tell people all the time,
03:36it took my son being shot down in order for me to stand up.
03:41Ms. Bell, you lost Sean on his wedding night. He had gone to a bachelor party with his father
03:48and became a victim of police misconduct that the police were acquitted. But thousands rose up in New
03:57York and around the country. Many of us even went to jail protesting what happened to Sean. But give us
04:03what Sean meant to you and the night that he was going to be married the next day. What that made
04:09you feel like? Well, Sean meant a lot to not only me, but his family. He was the middle one,
04:16the son that my oldest sister would say he had an old soul, but he was the one who looked out for
04:22everyone within his family, within the streets. He was ready to do the right thing, bringing us,
04:29giving us two lovely girls right now, 117 and 114. A lot of mothers weren't able to have that.
04:36And I always said, Sean's death gave me life because I was a woman who just stayed home,
04:41did what I had to do for the family. He was one that loved everybody, just like Trayvon Martin.
04:46He loved everybody. He loved having fun with his friends. And on that night, wow, early in the a.m.
04:53morning was when it happened, the morning of his wedding day. That's a party that a lot of guys
04:59always have, not thinking anything of this would happen, getting a call. It was an accident. I'm
05:04thinking, okay, car accident. But that day, like I said, I'm not the same. I'm a woman with a voice,
05:13continually will have a voice for not only Sean, but other mothers and families that I know
05:18lost loved ones in police brutality. So like I said, for his death, gave me life to have a voice
05:27continually. Wanda Jones, Ahmed was killed. We saw it on videotape, but this was your son. You brought
05:37him in the world. And one of the striking things when I talked to you on our television show,
05:45and when I have seen you through with your lawyers, you seem to have this almost regal bearing
05:52that you have been able to personify the pain that black mothers feel. But inside of that must be
06:02the pain of losing your son less than two months ago. Tell us about Ahmed and tell us about how you've
06:10had to be able to deal with this loss at the same time have become a national symbol of people that want to
06:18stand up for justice for your son.
06:21Okay, thank you for having me. Ahmed, again, was the baby of the family. Ahmed had an older sister, older brother.
06:30Ahmed was my baby. He was the baby of the bunch. Me and Ahmed had a very, very special bond.
06:38And Ahmed was the kid that came up and gave me a kiss on the cheek and the other kids would say,
06:44oh, that's gross. And Ahmed didn't care. Ahmed was the kid that he loved and he didn't care who
06:51knew that he loved. As I lost Ahmed back in February,
07:00I mean, I haven't come to grips that Ahmed is not coming back. I think I'm still in the numb stage that
07:06eventually that he'll show up after I run. And I often have to sit down and prepare myself that
07:12Ahmed is never coming back. Early in the case, back in early March, I wasn't getting any help from the
07:20local authorities, the DAs. And at that point, I knew I had to stand up and fight. Because now that I
07:28look back on it, if I hadn't stood up and fought the way I fought the good fight, the case would have been
07:33a close case. So it's been life changing. I haven't really got a chance to sit down and actually
07:43grieve because I'm having to fight. And I knew, and I know if Ahmad, if the tables were turned and it
07:51was me and Ahmad had to fight, he would fight just as hard as I am.
07:55Thank you. Let me go to the next question. We're virtual, so there may have been some connection
08:03interference, but let's continue this very important conversation. Miss Bell, as you said in that
08:09courtroom, and I was there many days watching as people for the defense, the defense lawyers for the
08:16policemen, would try and mischaracterize your son, saying he was a bad black and two of the cops were good black.
08:26And it had to rip you inside to see that they would go that far. In New York, you can waive a jury, so this
08:33was all in front of a judge. And you're watching them distort your son. Explain how you sat there and had to
08:41bear that. And what gave you the strength to do that? Like I said, to bear it was unbearable. The
08:48strength of the Lord, my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, that's what I carry each and every day.
08:53Like Ms. Aubrey said, she didn't have time to mourn. It has been 14 years for me. I have not mourned
08:58because I keep moving. But being in court for eight weeks was horrific. Just hearing the defense
09:06attorney, Badger, the witnesses who were there to be a help for my, you know, were speaking for Sean,
09:13it was unbelievable. The defense attorney would say something, me not being a lawyer, and I'm saying
09:18to my consultant lawyer, shouldn't they be saying, object, object? It was really crazy. The judge sitting
09:24there, at one time I thought, okay, he's going to be on our side. But April 25th, that day when it was not
09:30guilty, I'd never been the same. Never been the 25th, 2006, I haven't been the same. Just sitting
09:39there, I do not wish that on anyone because it's heart-wrenching. But as a mother, as a family,
09:45standing there for your child, you have to be there. That's the only thing that kept my sanity is just
09:51praying and having the community be behind me. Even though there's so many people out during the time,
09:58but when the cameras are gone, it's just you and your family. But you still have to go on.
10:04Right. You still have to go on.
10:07Wanda, you've had to fight to even get the case out there. Then you've got attorneys,
10:13leave married and others, and some of us were contacted by them. And you went overnight from
10:19just a mother trying to get her to almost a celebrity, something you never asked for.
10:25And you're reluctant now even to try to be a public figure. But you're fighting for your son.
10:33And you're learning and adapting to doing things like interviews and talk. Because deep down inside,
10:40you're fighting for your son. You're not really concerned about if anyone knows who Wanda Jones is,
10:45but you want justice for your son. And that's what motivates you. I chose to be a civil rights leader.
10:51You didn't choose to be the mother of a victim. Explain how sometimes God puts you in positions
10:58that you just have to adjust for the greater good. But this is not something you desired or that you in
11:05any way want to be some public figure. But you have to fight for your child.
11:12Yes. And that's completely true. I went from just being Ahmaud's mom to being a fighter for Ahmaud.
11:22It's different. I was put in this position. I wasn't prepared for it. I didn't take any classes for it.
11:34And so sometimes I think I'm just lost because sometimes I don't know what to do.
11:38But I know what I need to do and what I have to continue to do is fight and let people know
11:43about Ahmaud. And that's what keeps me going. These interviews is something that I've never
11:50done before. Not accustomed to. But at the same time, I know that I must continue because this
11:57is all for Ahmaud.
11:58Sabrina, one of the things that I watched over the years since Trayvon became the impetus
12:07or even the hashtag Black Lives Matter and so many other movements is that you always would say,
12:16Rev, make them operate in a way that they didn't take away the dignity of Trayvon and dignity of the
12:24family. Talk about how you want people to raise the issues of justice for Trayvon or Sean Bell,
12:31for Ahmaud, but don't get in a way that would distort to the public that these were not violent
12:37kids and kids that were doing wrong, that they represented something good. And sometimes the
12:44protesters have to reflect the goodness so that a jury won't get the wrong impression of the victim.
12:50Right. What we have to do is lead by example. And so I don't think anybody hurts more than the
13:00parents of, more than the mother of or the father of. Nobody hurts more than us when it comes to our
13:06children. But you don't see us, you know, burning down buildings and, you know, challenging the police
13:14on the street and, you know, just, you know, throwing rocks and different things like that.
13:19You don't see us doing things because there is a position for everybody. We all have to do our part.
13:26And this is our part. Our part is making sure that our child did not lose their life in vain and that
13:33we are progressively making changes to see a difference in this society. We didn't get this
13:40way overnight. And we know we're not going to get out of this predicament that we're in overnight,
13:46but at least there is some type of movement. And for that, we are hopeful. Every time we see one of
13:53these cases, it breaks our heart. It really does. And you go through and you relive your situation
14:01all over again. And that people don't understand that. We live it all over again. But the strength
14:07that we have as women keeps us going. The strength that we have just knowing that I'm not alone
14:13and that I'm connected to other strong women keeps us going.
14:21Valerie, your religious conviction, you would always tell me, is what kept you strong. Mr. Williams,
14:29who was your pastor, who is now deceased, and others stood with you, your husband, your family,
14:36looking out for your grandchildren. These are personal things that media never covers.
14:43What gives you the internal strength to go on? Because it had to be times you didn't want to
14:50get up and go to that courtroom, but something made you have enabled you with the strength to go
14:57forward. Talk about that a little bit. Well, like I said, what you already said is believing, but also
15:02knowing the life that my son lived, knowing the life that he wanted to be a baseball player, knowing
15:09the life that he wanted to be an electrician. I think of those things. So that's what also helped me
15:14to keep pressing on to let the people know about Sean's life, not about the 50 shots. You can read about it.
15:22I don't, I really don't speak about the 50 shots because everybody knows about the 50 shots.
15:27I'd like to continue to speak about the life he would have lived if he was still living. Because on
15:33the day of the bachelor party, he received the phone call from the Dodgers on that year. In August,
15:42he passed the apprenticeship for local three to be electrician. So I like to focus on his life,
15:47to think of his life, to think of what a good man he would have been. Not saying he was perfect,
15:53no man is perfect. He had his floors like we all have our floors, but just thinking of Sean,
15:58Elijah Bell, of what he would have been if he was still here on earth.
16:04Let me ask you, Wanda, as you now going through the first steps toward a trial
16:12for these that killed your son. I think it was just said that by Sabrina, no one hurts more than
16:23the mother, father, the family, and you having bared the child. Yet you don't seem like you want
16:31revenge, just justice. You don't seem like you are full of hate, but more motivated by the love for your
16:38son. What can you say is the reason you can operate above the revenge hate feeling and just operating
16:47and present such a real strong and regal presence that we get even before you open your mouth is just
16:55a bearing that you have. Where does that come from? I pray a lot. I've always prayed. I have great faith.
17:05I knew when this happened to a mom back in February that God will, he will make it better. I would tell
17:13my siblings, we went weeks without counsel and they would ask me, you know, we don't have anybody to
17:21represent us. And I always tell them that God will provide. He has always provided. And I have never
17:31presented God with a problem, with a thing that he has not worked out. And I knew that he would work
17:38this out for me in the death of Ahmad. I knew he would. And that's what I stood on. And as far as not
17:44displaying hate, I don't have the energy to put into it. You know, I mean, my energy levels is not what it
17:52used to be. And I have to put my energy into what really matters and that's into the fight for justice for
17:58Ahmad. Let me ask you all a last question. Sabrina, 100 years from now, history books
18:07write about Trayvon Martin and how it began the social change of this country. How do you want
18:15Trayvon and you and the family to be remembered in history? I want people to remember that the
18:24ugliness of what happened with Trayvon, that he was unarmed 17 year old. I want people to remember
18:30that the person that shot and killed him was a 28 year old grown man with a loaded gun and hate in his
18:37mind and hate in his heart. I want people to know that America sent a clear message that it's okay to
18:44kill an African-American teenager and nobody's held accountable. I want people to know that through
18:53the Trayvon Martin Foundation, which still would be around, that we are making a difference in this
18:58community. We're making a difference on a global level, on a national level, because we want people
19:04to know the importance of gun violence and how it affects not only the person that shot and killed,
19:10but their entire family, their friends, students, the community, and how the the United States came
19:17together at one particular point and decided this needs to stop. Wow. Valerie, how do you want history
19:24to record Sean Bell and the family? To remember Sean Bell as a young man who was ready to make a step in
19:32and change in changing his life to be a married man to the woman he, you know, bore two children with,
19:39to remember him of the life he lived that I will speak about soon so they can remember him for Sean,
19:47not the 50 shots, to remember the things that we fight for as a mother, as a family, to make change in
19:53history as far as the laws. Just to remember him as a young man who he didn't hate anyone
19:59and not to focus on, even though we think of the police officers that killed him, but I know they
20:06have a conscience. I know that they are thinking of the bad things that they have done. So just to
20:11remember my son and the good things in his life, being 23 years old, doing a lot, living life to the
20:18fullest, having an old soul, helping friends when when it was needed. I want them to remember Sean,
20:25not to remember the 50 shots. And Wanda, how do you hope history will record Ahmaud Arbery and the
20:33family? Ahmaud was just not a jogger. He was my baby. He wasn't just someone who went out for a jog.
20:45When Ahmaud was killed, Ahmaud expected to return back home and he was taken away.
20:51Ahmaud was love. I didn't see the video, but I was told that Ahmaud left his world fighting.
21:01Ahmaud was a fighter. And I asked his mom, I will continue to fight because he would do the same for
21:07myself. Let me say, when I met with Sabrina and Tracy, Trayvon Martin's parents, and we pledged to do a
21:21national march. The morning I got on the plane to head to Florida for that march, I got news
21:26that my mother had passed. And everyone said that they would understand if you went back home
21:34prepare for your mother's funeral. I went anyway. Sabrina, Tracy was surprised that I came to Florida
21:40that day. I came because of my mother. Single mother that scrubs law. I'd have a jacket to wear to church
21:51on Sunday. The strength of black women is why I want to talk to these mothers today. Because if it
21:58wasn't for a single black mother, I would not have been able to survive. We owe it to our black women
22:06to live up and be what they expect us to be. These mothers lost their sons. And for that,
22:14they're standing up to your son, my son, and daughter. And don't ever do anything to desecrate
22:22the strength of strong black women like these three that we talked to this morning. Thank you, and God bless you.
22:30God bless you.
22:38God bless you.
22:40God bless you.
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