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In this edition of 'To The Point', the big talking point is the political confrontation in Lok Sabha following Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi’s references to an unpublished memoir by former Army Chief General MM Naravane.
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00:00This is about when four Chinese tanks were entering Indian territory, they were taking
00:25a ridge in Dhoklam and the army chief writes and I quote from an article that is quoting
00:35his book.
00:36But facts contradict Rahul.
00:40We have not lost out on any territory, we are where we were before this whole thing started.
00:48He says, stop misleading nation.
00:55Chinese intrusion or Chinese whispers.
01:20Did Rahul cross line of actual control in parliament?
01:39Good evening, you're watching To The Point before we begin our debate and there's a piece
01:44of breaking news that's also coming in, here are the headlines.
01:51Former army chief's memoir rocks parliament Rahul Gandhi, Quartz General Narawaneh's unpublished
01:57book to target center BJP accuses Rahul Gandhi for spreading misinformation.
02:09Karnataka's special intensive revision storm intensifies TMC delegation led by Mahmata Banerjee
02:16where black shawl as a sign of protest, Mahmata calls CEC arrogant, warns him of dhankar-like
02:25fate.
02:26EC rejects Mahmata's charges.
02:30Karnataka's hate speech bill has now been stalled.
02:38Karnataka governor reserves contentious hate speech bill says need to assess constitutional
02:44validity of bill that sparked free speech concerns.
02:49Karnataka's medical apathy has been caught on camera, no bed, no stretchers, no staff in
03:00largest North Karnataka government hospital.
03:04Huge outrage as patients fend for themselves.
03:10No India versus Pakistan match in T20 World Cup 2026.
03:20Pakistan chickens out of game against India.
03:23ICC chairs meet to discuss Pakistan's boycott drama.
03:28India to travel to Sri Lanka and practice as per se due.
03:39The biggest Baloch attack ever in Pakistan.
03:42Two women suicide bombers target Pakistani troops.
03:46BLA says about 200 Pakistani soldiers killed in that attack.
03:51Meanwhile, Pakistani officials claim they killed 145 Baloch fighters.
04:09And some piece of breaking news that's coming in now.
04:16Months after the tragic Air India crash in Ahmedabad.
04:20Air India has now said that there is a possibility of a fuel switch defect on Boeing 787.
04:28Air India saying now that pilot flagged possible fuel switch defect.
04:34The question is why wasn't it then addressed.
04:37Air India going on to say that after receiving this initial information we have grounded the said aircraft and are involving the OEM to get the pilot's concerns checked on a priority basis.
04:49The matter has been communicated to the aviation regulator that is the DGCA, the director general of civil aviation.
04:57That is the big piece of breaking news that is coming in.
05:00So, there was a defect that is now being highlighted by Air India itself.
05:07Divesh Singh is joining us live.
05:08So, Divesh, this has been a subject of investigation.
05:11This, many would say, is startling.
05:15But, why weren't precautionary measures and inspections done on this Boeing?
05:22Well, Air India in this statement have said that this was flagged.
05:28This fuel control switch issue was flagged by one of their pilots.
05:32And after that, the aircraft has been grounded for further check.
05:37The aviation regulator, DGCA, has been informed.
05:41And remember, earlier they were, after the tragic air crash that happened,
05:48fuel switch issue of all the Boeing aircrafts were checked as per Air India.
05:54There were no issues flagged then.
05:56But now that the pilot has flagged this issue in this particular flight,
06:00which was going to fly from London to Bengaluru.
06:03This is AI-132.
06:05And a 787-8 Boeing aircraft.
06:10The aircraft has been grounded.
06:13So, this issue has come back again.
06:16And now this aircraft has been grounded.
06:18So, Divesh, correct me.
06:20So, it is essentially a pilot.
06:22In fact, Safety Measures Foundation Captain Amit Singh,
06:27who has written to the airline regulator,
06:29and he has mentioned that there is a fuel issue.
06:33Engine itself got logged in the same way which happened there,
06:37you know, which led to that crash at that airport in Ahmedabad after London flight.
06:44This is certainly raising questions.
06:48But the larger point that has been made here is that the aircraft was originally grounded because of issues that had come up with original equipment manufacturer, which is the OEM.
07:03Well, exactly. This issue, it has again come back to light.
07:08And after, as per Air India, after conducting thorough checks, after supervising all the aircraft,
07:15after clearing all the fuel switch issues in all the Boeing aircraft, all the aircraft being used by the flying company,
07:26this issue, if it has come back again, and it is being planned by a pilot, it has become very serious.
07:32Remember, there was aircraft of this particular make, this particular model, but there were questions raised about the fuel switch in these aircraft then also,
07:44when the Ahmedabad aircraft happened.
07:46And since then, there were checks being carried out, OEM was brought in, and there were checks being done, a team from Boeing had also come in.
07:55Now, if this issue pertains, it's come back again.
08:01So, it raises a very big question regarding the safety of the aircraft, regarding the issues concerning the fuel switch.
08:09Remember, the primary issue planned then in the Air India crash as well, was regarding the fuel switch.
08:16Alright, Devesh, really appreciate your time. Thank you for joining us.
08:19Shifting focus to our top story.
08:21Parliament witnessed an uproar, although it was seen as routine, but there was something more.
08:28This led what the leader of opposition, Rahul Gandhi, in fact, accused the government of hiding facts.
08:35Quoting from a former army chief's memoir, which is still unpublished.
08:41While the Treasury benches hit back, calling it misleading and stressing that national security cannot be politicized.
08:49With claims and counterclaims and historical records now in the spotlight, did Rahul Gandhi cross the LAC in the Lok Sabha?
08:56That's the question that I'm going to pose to the guests who will be joining me shortly.
09:00But first up, here's what happened today.
09:05The tanks were within a few hundred meters of Indian positions on the Kailash range.
09:10No, sir, no, sir. No, sir. No, sir. No, sir. No, sir. He's not yielding.
09:15If anything is wrong, Dada Sinki can reply after his speech, sir. He is quoting the magazine. He is quoting the magazine.
09:30Pandemonium in Parliament. Proceedings were adjourned twice as discussion on motion of thanks to the president's address descended into chaos over remarks by leader of opposition, Rahul Gandhi.
09:42The showdown began after BJP MP Tejasfi Surya questioned the Congress Party's stand on national security and raised questions over its patriotism, triggering sharp protests from the opposition benches.
09:58Citing former Army Chief General M.M. Narwani's memoir, Rahul Gandhi accused the government of hiding facts on the 2020 Ladakh stand of China.
10:10This is about when four Chinese tanks were entering Indian territory. They were taking a ridge in Doklam. And the Army Chief writes, and I quote from an article that is quoting his book.
10:29The tanks were within a few hundred meters of Indian positions on the Kailash range. No, sir. No, sir. No, sir. No, sir. He is not yielding. He is not yielding. Sir, sir.
10:44The charge drew a sharp response from the Treasury benches.
10:49Defense Minister Rajnath Singh accused Rahul Gandhi of misleading the House, stressing that unpublished material cannot be quoted in parliament and that national security cannot be politicized.
10:59Rahul Gandhi hit back, alleging the government was blocking the book's publication. The Lok Sabha erupted as slogan-earning stalled proceedings.
11:22The speaker reprimanded Rahul Gandhi reiterating that only published and verified material is allowed in the House.
11:44In the House, there are false truths of the wrongostat and false truths and false truths.
11:51That is authentic. We are talking about the public who are operating on the people's topic.
11:56I have given this article to let any of the polls and any of the rumors not exist.
12:03No, sir. No connection. No connection.
12:07Outside Parliament, Rahul Gandhi accused the government of being afraid and not allowing him to speak.
12:11him to speak.
12:39On record, former Army Chief General M.M. Narwane has repeatedly said India has not lost
12:45any territory to China.
13:09In another interview, he said India showed the world it can stand up to China.
13:13After this clash occurred and we showed that it is possible to stand up to China who tries
13:22to bully its smallest neighbours.
13:24Once we did that, I think from Canada to Lithuania to Europe to Philippines, everyone actually
13:30got that feeling that yes, if you are fighting for what is correct, if you have a principle
13:36stand, it is possible to take a stand even against China.
13:41As the patriotism debate escalates, BJP leaders pointed to historical records.
13:47Former IB Director BN Malik, in my years with Nehru, the Chinese betrayal, documents then-Prime
13:54Minister Jawaharlal Nehru praising China after India's defeat.
13:58Nehru wrote, and I quote, their training was good and their leadership and tactics were all
14:03good and brilliant, and I unquote.
14:06After the face-off in Parliament on Monday, the government insists national security cannot
14:10be politicised.
14:12Will the leader of opposition stick his guns when Lok Sabha reconvenes remains to be seen.
14:18Bureau Report, India Today.
14:19Joining me on the show tonight, Sanju Varma, National Spokesperson of the BJP.
14:28We have Sajjan Kumar, political analyst.
14:30Avani Bansal is National Spokesperson of the Congress.
14:33Sanjay Jha is political analyst.
14:35Lefton General Sanjay Kulkandi is former chief of the Staff 14 Corps and DG Infantry of the
14:41Indian Army.
14:42Sanju Varma, here is Rahul Gandhi quoting an article which is supposed to be on General
14:51Niravani's unpublished book, and he says that the army was under pressure.
14:56Home Minister Amit Shah has called it irresponsible.
15:01Then the question is, is the BJP saying that the former army chief is wrong?
15:07Or that Parliament has no right to discuss what he wrote?
15:11You know, Maria, a couple of things.
15:14First, Rahul Gandhi was supposed to submit his motion of thanks on the President's address.
15:20What does he choose to do?
15:22He chooses to undermine the credibility of our armed forces by A, quoting from a book which
15:29is yet to be published.
15:30B, the sources are unauthenticated, unverified at this stage because the memoirs are not in
15:39public domain.
15:40And third, you know, there is a technical reason also and a very robust one at that.
15:46Under Rule 349 of the Lok Sabha, of the Parliament, a sitting member of Parliament cannot be quoting
15:55from a book, a magazine, a memoir or a newspaper or a letter.
16:00And not only did Rahul Gandhi quote from an unverified source, but when the Speaker Om Birla asked
16:07him not to do so, he continued to do so.
16:11And don't forget, Maria, under Article 93, 94, 95, 100 and 110 of the Constitution, Om Birla,
16:18by virtue of being the Speaker, is the presiding officer of the Lok Sabha, and Rahul Gandhi,
16:25by virtue of being the LOP, should know better than to undermine the credibility of the presiding
16:30officer when the Parliament is in session.
16:33But I will just end by saying very quickly one thing.
16:36There are various interviews to India today, to ANI, so on and so forth, where Manoj Mukund
16:43Naravani, the man at the epicenter of this entire controversy, has said three things.
16:48A, he said repeatedly, we did not cede an inch of land to the Chinese.
16:54B, he very categorically said, we've looked at the neighbouring bully in the eye, in a reference
17:01to China.
17:02And C, he said that after 1979, what India under Narendra Modi achieved via the disengagement
17:11at Galwan, is perhaps the best example of how Chinese stature diminished and India stature
17:17surged.
17:18Right.
17:19Avani Bansal, why and from where is Rahul Gandhi coming up with some details, and he is quoting
17:26it on the floor of the House, he is the leader of opposition after all, on something which
17:31is unpublished, and he is quoting from an article which is on an unpublished book.
17:39And Ms. Bansal, what's even more concerning here is that on record, and we have played that
17:45soundbite of General Naravani.
17:48He has said something completely different from what Rahul Gandhi is quoting.
17:53And attributing him to speak about.
17:56Thank you for your question.
17:58Well, let's be clear that BJP wants us to be stuck on proceduralism, and in the process
18:04completely deny transparency on the China issue.
18:07Now, let's start with what the Defence Minister said in the Parliament.
18:11Rajna Singh claimed that the book which is being cited is not published.
18:16Many, the BJP spokesperson also said it in the TV debate.
18:19Let me first say that that statement is misleading.
18:22General MM Naravani's book, Four Stars of Destiny, is in fact published by Penguin Random House.
18:28It is a complete manuscript, has a publisher, also has ISBN details.
18:33But it is not available in India today.
18:37Why?
18:38Because it is awaiting clearance from the Ministry of Defence, which is a standard process
18:43for books when they are published by former senior military officials.
18:47It is a published book, not available in India.
18:50Point number two.
18:51Rule 349 of the Rules of Procedure of the Lok Sabha that was cited today, doesn't say
18:56that you cannot cite from a book.
18:58It says that that book has to be tabled.
19:01And the Speaker of the House has the discretion to ask the Speaker to either table the material,
19:07to verify it, authenticate it or even...
19:09No, so what exactly is the Congress saying here?
19:12Yes.
19:13Is the Congress alleging that political interference in military decisions?
19:17Or is the Congress saying that the military decisions are being left to the experts,
19:23that is the Chief of Army Staff?
19:25I am saying that what the BJP is trying to do in the Parliament is shut a discussion on China altogether.
19:34If the Speaker of the House wanted, he could have asked for the reference material to be paraphrased,
19:40for it to be tabled, for it to be authenticated.
19:43But what Rajnath Singh and the Home Minister did was to, in the name of House procedure,
19:49completely shut down any debate on the China issue.
19:54That has been done already.
19:56I mean, China has been debated multiple times in Parliament.
20:02Maria, you made a factual letter on your show.
20:05Okay, so let me bring in Sanju Verma.
20:07Let Sanju Verma respond to Avani Bansal and then I bring in others.
20:11You know, that is why I always say, especially on Maria Shakil's show,
20:15you need to be completely equipped with facts.
20:18I have published two books.
20:20ISBN number is allotted before the book is published.
20:24Banuscript does not mean that the book is necessarily published.
20:27And I am quoting from what MM Naravne said in October 2024 at a literature festival in Kasali, Himachal Pradesh,
20:36when he was asked, when will your book Four Stars of Destiny be published?
20:39And he said, it is currently unavailable.
20:42It is making news nonetheless.
20:44Amazon has a listing.
20:46Can I finish?
20:47Can I finish?
20:48Can I finish?
20:49Can I finish?
20:50Are you saying it is published?
20:52Let her finish.
20:53Are you saying it is published?
20:55Avani, let her speak.
20:56I am coming to you, Avani.
20:57Let's extend that to you.
20:58Yes.
20:59Is it unavailable or unpublished?
21:01Please, please now shut up.
21:03I did not heckle you.
21:04Okay, let's have Sanju Verma only on the screen now, please.
21:08Go ahead.
21:09Yes.
21:10The Congress spokesperson, Avani, or whoever she is, should know that Manoj Bukun Naravne
21:18in October 2024 at a lit fest in Himachal Pradesh has clearly said, despite a pre-ordering
21:25that was done via Amazon, the book was not published.
21:30And the publishers and the Ministry of Defense will take a joint call, particularly the Ministry
21:35of Defense, because under the Army Act of 1954, Section 63 and Rule 21, unless the Ministry
21:44of Defense gives a go-ahead, no former General Brigadier or any Army official can publish
21:51a memoir, an autobiography, or a biography, what have you.
21:56This is basic knowledge under the Army Act of 1954.
21:59Okay, let me bring in General Kulkarni now.
22:02General Kulkarni, you know, the opposition is quoting General Naravane from a memoir which
22:09is unpublished.
22:10I am emphasizing on that, because on record, in interviews, he has said something completely
22:15different.
22:16He has said not an inch of land was given.
22:19Neighborhood bully can be challenged.
22:21He has been very clear that Prime Minister Modi is handling off defense issues and the
22:28challenges are something that the Army and our forces really lord.
22:34Then, how should this entire debate and raking up of this issue be seen?
22:40Thank you, Manu.
22:41Firstly, the book is not published.
22:43I don't think there should be any discussions.
22:45Secondly, the chief himself has been asked a number of times on this subject and he has
22:50very categorically stated that, well, the book has been written.
22:53And there is nothing like that.
22:54So, I don't see any reason why there should be a debate.
22:59The debate should be once we have all read what has been written and in what context it
23:03has been written.
23:04Because there can be a slip of the tongue.
23:06I heard him say Doklam.
23:07Doklam is in eastern command, not normal command at all.
23:10And therefore, there are two different areas.
23:13So, they can be slip of the tongue primarily because no one has read.
23:17And since whatever has been published has been, you know, it's from hearsay.
23:21So, I would suggest we would wait for the book to be released.
23:25And once the book is released, by all means, we can debate.
23:28And since the chief himself on numerous occasions has said what he had to say, I think there should
23:34be no debate on these issues.
23:35Because the Henderson book also 1962, the things have not been declassified.
23:39It might not get declassified at all.
23:41So, why should we unnecessarily get into a debate for, I'm trying to score a point against
23:47somebody.
23:48Nothing like that.
23:49I don't find any reason.
23:51The whole discussion must start once we have read a book.
23:56Since the book is not there in the public domain.
23:58Till the book is not there in the public domain, the book doesn't exist.
24:01That is the point that has been made.
24:03So, Sanjay Jha, how does it help the Congress party politically?
24:10It's not a question of the Congress party benefiting politically.
24:14It's the people of India being enlightened about the way the government is being running
24:19on matters of national security.
24:22Maria, let me tell you, national security is not just the prerogatory of the government
24:26and power.
24:27The opposition members are also elected by the people.
24:30It's our job to fight for the safeguards of India's territorial boundaries.
24:34Now, let's cut to the chase and come to the fundamental point.
24:37Why is the BGP government scared, frightened of letting this book be published?
24:43They are saying in Parliament the book has not been published.
24:46The fundamental question is, why hasn't the book been allowed to be published for over
24:51a year?
24:52What is the defense review taking so long for?
24:55Point number one.
24:56Point number two, very critical here.
24:58This is a general.
24:59He was a chief of the army staff for really three to four years.
25:04Does this fraud nationalistic government not trust the general of this country?
25:11Is the general not allowed to put facts on the table of what really happened?
25:14Point number three, extremely critical.
25:16You see, this government runs on perception of this macho, muscular predilection of Modi's
25:23so-called Vishwagaru image.
25:25Now, that stand shattered.
25:26I'll tell you another example why the BGP is scared.
25:30Go back to the Indonesian defense attashi called, I think, Mr. Colonel Shiv Kumar.
25:36Colonel Shiv Kumar said during Operation Sindhur that it was the very delayed and very,
25:41shall we say, incompetent political leadership of India that allowed Pakistan to drown many
25:48of our jets and actually rather down Indian jets during the war.
25:52Okay.
25:53Sanjeev, I have to go back to Sanjeev.
25:56Because you have made your point.
25:57I'm not done yet.
25:58No, I'm not done yet.
25:5930 seconds.
26:00Okay.
26:0130 seconds quickly.
26:02Yeah.
26:03Yeah.
26:04Two more points.
26:05Very important.
26:06The track record of this government on national security is a disaster.
26:07We all know in Khandahar hijacked, the whole minister had no clue that the aircraft
26:10was being flown out of, out of India.
26:12Last but not the least, we have recent revelations.
26:15Sanjeev, the point here being made of the book not being published.
26:20Why is the government not allowing the book to be published?
26:23Right.
26:24And if the government is confident of its position, why not allow one full discussion
26:29and put the facts on record?
26:31You know, Maria, I want to say one thing very categorically.
26:34You know, the suspended congressee Sanjay Jha waxing eloquent about how Modi government
26:40has failed national security is like me saying I'm Taylor Swift and Maria Shaqiri is Madonna.
26:45That is not happening.
26:46I just want to focus on the move point here.
26:47I'm not saying either.
26:48I just want to focus on the move point here.
26:49I'm not saying either.
26:50Yes, please.
26:51Mr. Jha now hold your horses.
26:52I'm not saying either.
26:53I hold you very patiently.
26:54Maria, can I please speak without being taken?
26:56Yes.
26:57Yes.
26:58Sanjay Jha will ensure that you speak properly.
27:00Please go ahead, ma'am.
27:01Yes.
27:02Yes.
27:04Let's get one thing very, very clear.
27:07Operation Sindur was one of its kind.
27:10I will never get tired of saying this, Maria.
27:12Via the surgical strike, we crossed the LOC.
27:15Via the Balakot strike of 2019, we crossed the international border.
27:19But via Operation Sindur in 2025, we struck at the heart of Rawalpindi.
27:25And if you say, when I say you, I mean the Dharwari ecosystem, if it feels that Operation
27:30Sindur was not a success story, then they go and need to show themselves to a shrink.
27:35But I will tell you one thing.
27:37After 1962 debacle, Nehru handed over 30,000 square kilometers of Aksai Chin on a golden
27:44platter to the Chinese.
27:46Large parts of Tia Pangnak and Chabji Valley were handed over to the Chinese.
27:50And people like Brahma Chalani are on record.
27:53How under Nehru in 1954, we surrendered our extraterrestrial rights in Tibet.
27:58We gave away Cocoa Islands and Kamu Valley to Burma, now called Myanmar, in 1953.
28:04Rejoined her, please.
28:05Okay.
28:06In 1974, last point, in 1974, without taking approval of the parliament, Nehru's daughter,
28:14a lady called the Long-Nosed Indra Dandhi gave away Kaccha Thivu Islands to Sri Lanka,
28:21saying it's a barren piece of land with boulders and rocks.
28:24And today, the Dharwari ecosystem has the audacity to lecture BJP on national security.
28:29Okay.
28:30Let me bring in, Sajjan.
28:31You guys are hypocrites.
28:33Okay.
28:34Sajjan, you know, is this really about national security or is it about the control of the
28:38national security narrative?
28:40See, it's more about the narrative than national security, because let's see the context.
28:47One, whether the book is published or it is still awaiting the defense ministry clearance,
28:54that is secondary to me, because you quote from unpublished PhD, unpublished book.
29:00But here the point is, what is the source of leader of opposition?
29:04It's not the excerpt of the book or a copy of the manuscript that he has gone through.
29:12He is relying on an article written by an author into a magazine, which has a track record.
29:20That magazine has a track record of publishing, you know, the past profile of CRPF Martyrd in
29:28the wake of Puluama.
29:29You know, so such a kind of agenda-driven platform by an author who since 2020 has been consistently
29:37writing against the government.
29:39So if at all leader of opposition had to cite about Galwan issue, he should have relied more
29:46on a bona fide platform and an impartial author, because it's a matter of national security.
29:53So yes, transparency is required here.
29:55Wow.
29:56Both the platform as well as the author have been consistently writing in an agenda-driven
30:03manner.
30:04Wow.
30:05So that is why, that is why for a leader of opposition at all, and if you read the piece,
30:10I have read the piece.
30:11It's a long piece.
30:12It's not even publishing the excerpt of the book.
30:14It just picks one thing that at 8.15 PM, the chief of army staff received a call about
30:21the Galwan thing, and by 10, they got the clearance that Prime Minister is saying that
30:27Now what is this, what is the interpretation of this thing?
30:34No, no, no.
30:35He is making an important point and I, because that's the subject of interpretation also.
30:38That essentially would be seen as the political will to go ahead and you do operations, what
30:49is needed, please go ahead and do it.
30:51And then in the long piece, long piece.
30:54And then otherwise it will be seen as an interference in the military decision.
30:57Otherwise.
30:58And then the piece starts with one excerpt that 8.15 PM got, and it was just, he is
31:03seeing that the situation was quite critical and being made to Home Minister, to the National
31:09Security Advisor, to the Foreign Minister, to the other concerned higher officials.
31:13And then by frequent interchange with defense meets everyone, by 10, 15, the message came
31:19that Prime Minister has given specific clearance that which is what is going to do.
31:23And thereafter, the author goes into background, everything, his interpretation, you know,
31:28this was the context.
31:29So it's an interpretation of an unpublished book, with a one line,
31:34So now I'm going to start wrapping up this discussion.
31:37I'm going to bring in everyone for their final comments.
31:39I'm coming to you everyone, please.
31:41My question to you, Lieutenant General Sanjay Kulkarni, where is the red line here?
31:46Is it legitimate civilian oversight versus politicization of the armed forces?
31:52In decision making, so many things happen.
31:55You don't politicize these things.
31:57I don't think, unless I read what it is, it is very difficult to commit.
32:02And secondly, we must not politicize.
32:04There are so many things that happen.
32:06I may have abused somebody while the decision has been taken, that it is not right or wrong
32:09or whatever.
32:10That's incorrect.
32:11That's absolutely incorrect.
32:13I don't think these kind of things will be discussed, and nobody should politicize.
32:17And first and foremost, national security interests lie.
32:20The government knows it better.
32:22Why isn't it 1962 declassified till date?
32:25So many governments have come and gone.
32:27There must be reason why it hasn't been declassified.
32:29And therefore, it's best left to the government in power at that point of time
32:33to decide what best is to be done.
32:35Okay.
32:36So, Lieutenant General Kulkarni, would you say then that as is being said by Sanjay Jahayir,
32:40in name of transparency, even that book should be published?
32:45No, not at all.
32:46Yeah, I agree.
32:47See, first and foremost, everybody has a right to know, but not everything at all times.
32:52There are times when you shouldn't know anything.
32:55Okay.
32:56Avni.
32:57Avni Bansal.
32:58Avni Bansal.
32:59Let's have Avni Bansal and Sanju Varma now on the screen, please.
33:03Avni Bansal, first to you.
33:04Please go ahead.
33:05We are not talking of a random author.
33:08We are talking about the ex-army chief.
33:12We are not talking about him indicting random people.
33:16We are saying that for two and a half years, for two and a half hours at a crucial juncture,
33:21he kept waiting for a clearance from the topmost and he names Rajnath Singh, Ajit Doval, and
33:28Mr. Modi himself.
33:29So, the tone and tenor that the BJP spokesperson has taken on your debate and the BJP has taken
33:35on the floor of the parliament clearly shows they have something to hide.
33:39Otherwise, just saying that we don't want a discussion on this entirely and shutting
33:45the debate by resorting to rules clearly indicates a lot that they have to hide.
33:51Okay.
33:52Sanju Varma, why is the government not open to a debate on this?
33:56You know, Maria, let's get one thing very clear.
33:58Yes.
33:59Let's get one thing very clear.
34:00Sanju Varma, the BJP is not going to decide, you know, what is good for national security.
34:07That is the decision best left to the Modi government, its top cabinet brass, including
34:12Rajnath Singh, Union Home Minister, Amit Shah.
34:14And I don't need certificates on what to say, how to say, how much to say from Agni Bansal
34:19or her party bosses.
34:20I will just read out three lines from Lieutenant General YK Joshi's book, Who Dares Win a Soldier's
34:27Memoir.
34:28Let's collect the designation for Sanju Varma.
34:32She is the BJP spokesperson.
34:34Please go ahead.
34:35Can I please finish, Maria?
34:36Yes, ma'am.
34:37This is what YK Joshi said.
34:38Is it tabled on the parliament?
34:41Maria, this is not done.
34:42Avni, Avni, Avni, let her finish her point.
34:44Yes.
34:45Yes.
34:46You know, I don't know why she's getting so rattled and keep blabbering.
34:48Can I finish?
34:49Maria, I refuse to debate like this.
34:51Okay, please go ahead.
34:52Either you give me time or don't call us.
34:54Go ahead, ma'am.
34:55This is what YK Joshi has said in his memoir and Rahul Gandhi and Garbari Ecosystem Bhyan
35:02Se Suniye.
35:03He says that the north and south bank of Pangong, so and even further north in the area of Kewla and Anena passes.
35:12We completely took the P&A by surprise, brought them back to the negotiating table and force them to beat a hasty retreat.
35:20That was Operation Snow Leopard, an unmitigated success where we achieved dominant heights in the Kainash range and the R2 complex, which is basically Rezangrush and Rechinla.
35:35So, when YK Joshi has spoken, when Manoj Bukun Naravani says we have taken down the arrogance of the neighbouring bully that is China, who the hell is Rahul Gandhi?
35:46All right.
35:47He is the leader of opposition, Sanju Verma.
35:49Thank you for joining us, Sajjan Kumar, Ravani Bansal, Sanjay Jha and Lieutenant General Sanjay Kulkarni.
35:55Of course, we haven't heard the last in this.
35:58Thanks so much.
35:59There is a big boost to India's defence budget in the aftermath of Operation Sindhu.
36:04The message from the centre is clear that national security remains a top priority.
36:09The overall defence allocation has been raised sharply from 6.81 lakh crore in 2025-2026 to 7.85 lakh crore in 2026-27, which is a 15.27% increase.
36:27And joining me on the show is Rajesh Kumar Singh, the Defence Secretary.
36:31Mr. Singh, really appreciate your time.
36:33The defence budget has grown, but critics say revenue expenditure still eats into capital outlay.
36:40In Budget 2026, how much real money is going to go into modernisation, new platforms, tech and force readiness?
36:49So, I will talk only about the capex part.
36:54We are not talking about the revenue part, the pay and pension at all.
36:59Now, in the overall capital figure for last year was 1,80,000 crores.
37:05This year it is 2,19,000 crores, which is a 21% increase.
37:10Within this, what we call the modernisation budget, which was about 1,48,000 crores last year, is for the current year 1,85,000 crores, which is a jump of 24%.
37:24So, we are talking real numbers here.
37:26We are not talking about whatever is, you know, there is a significant percentage of our 7.85 lakh crores overall budget for defence, which is taken up by the pay and pension and revenue expenditure as well.
37:44But here I am talking only about the capex and incidentally, even in revenue, there is a lot of money which goes into stuff like maintenance, fares, fuel, etc, which are very much part of your operational readiness.
37:57Okay, so the government keeps stressing defence indigenisation.
38:01Can you give us a clear number?
38:03How much of this budget directly boosts domestic defence manufacturing and reduces import dependence?
38:10So, over the last three years, we have set ourselves a normative target that 75% of our modernisation budget, the figure I mentioned just now, 1,85,000 crores, will be spent within the country in Indian rupees.
38:29We have overachieved that. Last year, we did 89% of our capex budget only on domestic sources, that means expenditure in Indian rupees.
38:42That will continue to be the case, which would imply that for the next year, out of 1,85,000 crores, 75%, at least 1,39,000 crores will be spent within the country.
38:54Okay.
38:55And this means that, of course, it will benefit all participants in the defence industry supply chain.
39:03That is not only the big wigs, the 16 PSUs, the large number of licensed, large industrial enterprises, but also a large number of MSME, whose number is about 16,000.
39:16For this money, 1,39,000 crores will be spread over this entire ecosystem, which is fairly large and growing.
39:25So, the modern wars are about drones, AI and cyber. In Budget 2026, how much has actually been earmarked for defence R&D and emerging technologies?
39:36And is it enough to change battlefield outcomes?
39:43I think there is a significant increase of about 15% overall in the R&D budget, although DRDO would be in a better position to mention the exact breakup between the research funding and the capex funding.
39:55But if you are talking about the equipment and the technology upgradation within our modernisation budget, yes, a significant amount of this money is going into areas like drones, into areas like cyber, in areas like secure communications, software-defined radio, counter UAS systems.
40:12And ultimately, also on this futuristic Sudarshan Chakra mission, wherein we are trying to build a really resilient, strong, multi-layered air defence system for critical infrastructure and critical city points and population centres all over the country.
40:30A couple of more questions. Roads, tunnels and forward airfields are as critical as weapons. Does this budget significantly step up spending on border infrastructure?
40:41What is the budget of border infrastructure, especially along the China front?
40:48Maria, this government has given a real impetus to border infrastructure, whether it is airfields, whether it is roads.
40:56And as a result, you will find that what we have set aside for the border roads organisation has been growing significantly every year.
41:05Ever since the BRO as an agency was put under the Ministry of Defence in 2014, we've sort of tried to ensure that they have adequate money.
41:17They buy the most modern type of equipment to ease the sort of drudgery of labour when it comes to working in these tough terrains.
41:26And those results are very clear. I think, year on year, we are building much more than we were earlier.
41:32And if you visit the border areas, you will see that difference yourself.
41:37India is also pitching itself as a defence exporter.
41:41So what concrete export targets are there in this budget and which Indian platforms are ready to compete globally?
41:51Well, the target that our Raksha Mantri has set out before us is to achieve 50,000 crores by 2030.
42:00We've done last year about 23,000 crores.
42:03This year, by the time the final numbers come for the current financial year,
42:08we will expect to reach 20 something, you know, in excess of 25,000 crores, I'm sure.
42:14Ultimately, it is the growth of a diversified, strong defence industrial base comprising both public and private sector,
42:24which will also lead to much larger exports.
42:28But if you're talking about individual platforms, yes, of course, some of our platforms that are battle proven and ready,
42:34a large number of areas like artillery, like the BrahMos missile, like the Donia aircraft, like the ALH advanced light helicopter,
42:44the Pinaka rocket launchers, all of these are systems that are battle tested and very much in demand all over the world.
42:50And I'm sure you'll see exponential growth in exports in the coming years.
42:54My last question to you, sir. With an active LAC, a volatile LOC and rising maritime challenges,
43:00does Budget 2026 truly prepare India for a two-front scenario?
43:10I think it goes a long way in meeting that requirement.
43:13Ultimately, you are now a nearly 4 trillion economy.
43:19Even if you get achieved 2% of the GDP, that is, in our estimate, good enough to meet most of the capability requirements
43:26that the services have projected.
43:29We've actually given them more in terms of a 24% increase in the modernization budget.
43:34They have assured me that even a 10% year-on-year increase sustainably done over the next few years would have been adequate.
43:42But here we want to, in the context of Operation Sindhu, ensure that capability enhancements in certain areas is really speeded up.
43:50So you'll find that with this 24% increase, most of these capability issues will get resolved in the coming years.
43:57And we will have the kind of military power that a 4 trillion dollar economy should have.
44:03That is the intent and the government essentially is putting its money where that intent is and making it count.
44:09All right. Rajesh Singh, really appreciate your time. Thank you for speaking to India today.
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