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The Parliament Winter Session commenced on Monday with a sharp exchange as Prime Minister Narendra Modi urged the Opposition to focus on "delivery, not drama."
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00:00Good evening, Prime Minister Narendra Modi's drama nahi delivery statement at the start of the winter session of parliament has set the stage for a very fiery winter session.
00:12The Prime Minister turned the knife into the opposition saying some are unable to accept the defeat in Bihar and are venting out their frustration in parliament.
00:20The opposition hit right back, insisting talking about issues like the special intensive revision of the voter list and suicides by PLOs is not drama.
00:41Sunset session, SIR and showdown.
00:44You allow us to discuss kiasa yaar, it is very important issue.
00:53Prime Minister's pitch, deliver, don't do drama.
01:06Modi says, parliament for policy, not theatrics.
01:10Disruptions derail debate goals.
01:30Opposition says, raising issues is in drama.
01:33Who is derailing the debate?
01:53Who is doing drama?
01:55That is a big focus on India first.
01:57So this cold war between the ruling party and the opposition in the winter session, that's our top focus story on India first.
02:06Also coming up at 8.30 tonight, the red carpet is being rolled out for the Russian President Vladimir Putin's forthcoming visit to India for the 23rd annual summit.
02:16But this time it's special.
02:17India and Russia anyway, share this special and privileged strategic partnership.
02:21Defense cooperation is a very important aspect of this visit.
02:25And this visit, the world is watching.
02:28Russia has a very clear edge, a decisive edge in the war with Ukraine.
02:35The conflict on ground, talks between the United States and Russia, the way Europe and Ukraine are coming together.
02:43Everyone will be watching what happens in Delhi and we'll get you details.
02:47I'm Gaurav Savan, as always, let's get started with the headlines on India first.
02:57Government confirms possible flight sabotage.
03:01Bid center says some flight operating near the vicinity of the Indira Gandhi International Airport in Delhi reported instances of GPS spoofing.
03:17Nanny from hell at a Hyderabad school caught on camera brutally.
03:47Assault of a 4-year-old toddler in preschool.
03:51The attendant beat up the toddler, now arrested.
04:02Legal trouble for Dhorandar.
04:04Delhi High Court orders the Central Board of Film Certification to take into account concerns of Major Mohit Sharma's family before clearing the film.
04:13Major Sharma's family insists the movie mirrors the son's mission without their consent.
04:29So the parliament's winter session got off to a stormy start this morning.
04:33Disruptions dominated both houses of parliament.
04:37Prime Minister Narendra Modi set the tone.
04:40He urged members of parliament to focus on delivery, not drama.
04:44He insisted parliament is for policy, not theatrics.
04:48He warned that shouting slogans and venting their frustration, election after election defeat will not solve anything.
04:55He called for a meaningful debate to address issues of the people.
05:00The opposition hit right back.
05:02Priyanka Gandhi-Wadra insisting raising issues is not drama accused the government of using disruption to block discussion on issues like the special intensive revision of the voter list.
05:12So with tensions very high, the big question remains, will this session of parliament be about debate or more drama?
05:18Parliament witnessed a stormy start to the winter session.
05:33Ahead of the session, Prime Minister Narendra Modi urged MPs to engage in meaningful discussions instead of indulging in drama.
05:41Ahead of the session, Prime Minister Narendra Modi
06:11The Prime Minister's remark, a clear jive on the opposition, triggered a storm.
06:23Within minutes, the Congress fired back, calling the Prime Minister the biggest drama boss.
06:28Though Rahul Gandhi stayed silent, Priyanka Gandhi hit out, saying raising issues isn't drama.
06:34Speaking about issues, raising issues is not drama.
06:46Drama is not allowing discussion.
06:48Drama is not having a democratic discussion about issues that matter to the public.
06:52We've spoken about pollution.
06:54Why are we not raising it?
06:55Why are we not allowed to talk?
06:56Today I've asked for zero on it.
06:57Why are we not allowed to discuss these things?
07:01As expected, when parliament convened, ruckus erupted in both houses.
07:08In the Lok Sabha, opposition MPs raised vote-chory slogans
07:11and demanded a discussion on the special intensive revision of electoral rolls.
07:17This stormed the well of the House.
07:18Opposition MPs accused the government of rushing the SIR exercise, not giving BLOs enough time
07:36and allegedly attempting to suppress voters.
07:39Make sure that everybody who's eligible is included and do not include anybody who's not eligible.
08:03And any kind of deletion you do, do it with adequate notice.
08:07But why do it in an unharried manner?
08:09I think the government must be a little bit more accommodating.
08:11Give us space to raise issues of our concern.
08:13And I'm sure everything will work smoothly out.
08:16Chaos mirrored in the Rajya Sabha.
08:18Leader of opposition, Malika Junkarge, expressed hope that the new chair would act impartially,
08:24even citing Dhanka's exit, calling it unexpected and sudden.
08:28I am constrained to refer to your predecessors completely unexpected and sudden exit from the
08:40office of the chairman Rajya Sabha, which is unprecedented in the annals of parliamentary history.
08:48It is our fond hope, rather we are confident that you will take care of the entire sections
08:56of the House.
08:58His remarks drew a sharp response from Parliament Affairs Minister Kiran Rajuji.
09:03It is no focus on holding a final.
09:13It will back into the discussion and discussion.
09:15From państwo裡面, the time of the parliamentarians, others Barack Tsung K saying,
09:20The day one marked by drama and disruptions, the big question remains, will this winter
09:46sessions see a thaw in government opposition ties, or will it only get hostile?
09:52With Aishwarya Paliwal, in Delhi, Beira Report, India Today.
10:16You know, when I heard this, I laughed because we know who does drama.
10:33The Prime Minister of India is the drama king at the end of the day.
10:37Now, how dare does he say we do drama?
10:40There are very important issues.
10:41One is SIR, as you know.
10:44There is an SIR going all over the country.
10:46We need a discussion on that.
10:49One, more than 40 BLOs have died.
10:52They are removing people, teachers from schools, normal schools not happening and making them
10:58BLOs.
10:58I mean, and then on one side, the Election Commission says that this is done to remove illegal immigrants,
11:05and that is to prove the citizenship of a citizen of India.
11:08But the Supreme Court says that Election Commission has no right for that, to prove the citizenship
11:13of anybody.
11:14So, in Parliament, they need to explain why an SIR has been done all over the country,
11:21why certain states like Assam is not there, why are these BLOs dying, why, wait, let me
11:26finish, why put pressure?
11:27Number two, what is the most important issue right now, Gauru, Savit, what you and me and
11:32all of us who live in Delhi face, is the pollution.
11:35It is killing us more than 600, sometimes more than 700 AQI.
11:41People are crying.
11:42I mean, Kiran Bedi, who was a former part of the Bhatia Jindapati, was begging the Prime
11:47Minister, can you please do?
11:48He does not want to discuss that.
11:50You see, and of course, we have had a terrorist attack recently at Red Fort.
11:54And what is drama is when the attack happened, he was there in India.
11:57He didn't go to meet the people who died or their families.
12:01He went straight to Bhutan and he had, if I'm not, a celebration, a birthday celebration
12:07or something over there.
12:08Then he comes back and goes to the hospital.
12:10That is drama.
12:11We want to know how such security lapses are happening at the centre, heart of Delhi.
12:17Why wouldn't they be able to stop it?
12:19What happened in Kulbaba?
12:20Three pertinent points you've raised.
12:21So, these are the things.
12:23Okay, fair enough.
12:24Sayyid Zafar Islam, KC Venu Gopal accused the Prime Minister of doing drama.
12:28You heard Dr. Shama Mohammed.
12:30This is drama.
12:31Opposition raising people-centric issues.
12:34If, you know, if this is not what they do, from pollution to attack at Red Fort to SIR,
12:41why is the government not engaging, you know, the opposition on issues of public importance,
12:45sir?
12:50Well, Gaurav, you have to understand their intent.
12:55Every time we have demonstrated that we want debate to take place on the floor of the parliament,
13:00we have also ensured that in the business advisory committee that we must agree and there
13:06is a meeting of minds in terms of what needs to be discussed on the floor of the parliament
13:09and how much time needs to be allocated.
13:12Every time they have agreed, but when actually the discussion had to take place, they disrupted
13:17the parliament.
13:18So it is for them to first understand what they are doing, what they are up to, because
13:22the people, as the Honorable Prime Minister rightly said, that in front of camera, you
13:26do drama and you pretend that you want discussion to take place.
13:31But as soon as they see the camera, their mindset changes and they start doing drama.
13:36But the people of India who have chosen them as their member of parliament, as their representative
13:43to the parliament, they expect them to deliver.
13:46And something which is very, very important, because a lot of indications have been given
13:50that how many bills will be introduced, in what area of the bills pertaining to, whether it
13:57is to do with the corporate governance, whether it is to do with health or many more.
14:03And all these important negotiations, once it becomes.
14:06Are the treasury benches open to a discussion on SIR or on pollution?
14:09So, anything under the sun we want to discuss, we are open to discuss, but are they a responsible
14:19opposition?
14:20Do they really want to discuss or they just want to disrupt the parliament?
14:24It is for them to introspect what they are doing for the last few parliament session.
14:30Every time, every session, every opportunity, they have only disrupted the parliament.
14:37And I think, Dr. Shama Mohamad wants to quickly respond before I bring it to Mr. Mandel and
14:42R. Kijera.
14:42Dr. Shama Mohamad, quick intervention.
14:45Ten seconds, ten seconds.
14:46One second, let me come in.
14:47They are misusing the taxpayers' money.
14:51Please allow me to complete.
14:53Okay.
14:53They are actually misusing the taxpayers' money by disrupting the parliament.
14:58I want them to become a more responsible opposition party.
15:02I want their parliamentarian to become more responsible.
15:04Fair enough, sir.
15:04You have your ten seconds, Dr. Mohamad wants to respond.
15:06I just want to tell one thing to Zafar.
15:11Remember, it is not our job, the opposition, to run the parliament.
15:15It is the treasury bench and the government of India.
15:17Now, the prime minister starts off, instead of saying, you know what, we can have a great
15:21discussion this winter session.
15:23We are ready for it.
15:24The prime minister says, opposition shouldn't do drama.
15:26He's already poking the opposition.
15:28Look at the attitude.
15:30This man will never change.
15:32He's not the prime minister of India.
15:34He's still a Bharatiya Jhanta Party Kare Karta.
15:37That's the problem.
15:38You don't start a session by poking the opposition.
15:42Can I just come in, Gaurav?
15:43Gaurav, Gaurav, can I just come in?
15:45The prime minister has nothing in him.
15:47That's the problem.
15:48Since, ma'am, you specifically mentioned the prime minister, the BJP wants to respond.
15:52You are not even aware that what your party is up to.
15:55Go on, Sayyid Zafar Islam.
15:57Go on, sir.
15:57I think the honourable prime minister, before every session begins, parliament session,
16:03he has always invited the opposition parties to have a detailed discussion.
16:08But this congress, this most irresponsible party, even yesterday said that this parliament
16:14will be derailed.
16:15Because their intent, they have demonstrated in front of people that what they are up to.
16:19And criticizing the prime minister is the only job they are left with because they cannot
16:28face the people.
16:29People have discarded them completely.
16:30The party has been rejected completely.
16:33They have never been.
16:33Now, they are now being not blessed by the people.
16:36Every time they criticize the prime minister, they are using unwarranted statements.
16:42If the prime minister's intention was to provoke the opposition, he clearly succeeded
16:47very well.
16:48Now, your take on the prime minister saying there are places for drama, parliament is
16:52to debate and to deliver.
16:55Yeah, well, I mean, it was definitely a provocative statement, you know, and designed, I think,
17:01to provoke the opposition.
17:03And the opposition responded predictably.
17:05You know, but the sad thing is, Gaurav, and we've seen this session after session after
17:10session, this blame game that goes on.
17:13No, you disrupt parliament.
17:15No, you disrupt parliament.
17:16No, you're responsible.
17:17No, you're responsible.
17:19Somewhere, this blame game has to stop.
17:23But the thing is, who's going to stop the blame game?
17:27Because no, there is absolutely a complete breakdown of communication between the treasury
17:34benches and the opposition benches.
17:35I mean, you know, there was a time when they used to, I mean, a long time ago, Gaurav, when
17:40I first started covering parliament, you know, whatever their political rivalries were, they
17:45would meet over a cup of tea, they would have a chat, they would meet in Central Hall, they
17:50would, you know, there was a kind of friendly banter.
17:53And yes, they crossed swords on parliament, on the floor of the parliament.
17:57But the kind of, you know, the kind of contentiousness that I see today was missing at that time.
18:05And I think that, you know, somewhere, the opposition and the Congress and the government must realize that they may be political opponents, but they are not enemies.
18:18You know, this cannot, parliament cannot be a war zone.
18:22Parliament has to be a place for raising issues.
18:26It has to be...
18:26For a healthy debate.
18:27We don't see that happen, you know, more often than not.
18:30That's right, because it's become a war zone.
18:32They are fighting with each other all the time.
18:34Yes.
18:35And, you know, I mean, somewhere, I don't know who's going to stop this vicious cycle.
18:41But, you know, I mean, I don't know, maybe public pressure.
18:44Maybe people need to start demanding more from parliament, from parliament.
18:49You know, the bills are just railroading through.
18:52I have to bring in more.
18:54I have to bring in Professor Monajit Mandel quickly.
18:55Both want to come in.
18:56But I have to bring in Professor Monajit Mandel.
18:58Give me a moment.
18:59Camera pressure.
19:00They want to be seen everywhere disrupting the parliament, protesting the parliament.
19:06This is not the parliament.
19:08I'm not the speaker.
19:09That is what they want.
19:11Permitly.
19:11They don't want.
19:12And also, Gaurav, one very important point, 15 days of parliament.
19:17They don't even want.
19:18Gaurav, Gaurav, that's it, that's it.
19:1915 days.
19:20When we were in parliament, we allowed parliament for many more days.
19:23They just want winter session 15 days because a dictator says, I don't care about parliament.
19:28I can pass the bill wherever I want.
19:30You know, Professor Monajit Mandel has been waiting so patiently.
19:33Gaurav, Gaurav.
19:34Okay, five seconds.
19:35Gaurav, Gaurav, 10 seconds.
19:36Quickly.
19:36Just to revert her.
19:38Okay.
19:38Yes.
19:39Go on, sir.
19:39All I'm saying that these people, these people, these people, no, no, these people have only made statements after statement.
19:50But whenever the opportunity was there, they have never discussed.
19:54And whenever they see camera, so their love is only for camera.
19:58When they see camera, they want to show the people that they are disrupting the parliament, they are protesting, and they are not letting the debate take place.
20:07You are repeating it, right?
20:08You are saying that every time.
20:09Yes, Professor Mandel, sir, thank you for waiting.
20:13Quickly, Professor Mandel, Professor Mandel, Prime Minister insists India has shown democracy can deliver.
20:19He specifically mentioned record voting in elections.
20:23He also spoke of India's rate of growth.
20:25Sir, does that blunt the opposition's charge?
20:29Or do you think that the issue that the opposition is raising, SIR, you know, that's more important than any other issue in your view, sir?
20:37You see, the opposition is raising the issue not because it is SIR, but it has become almost a killing machine.
20:45That's the simple reason.
20:46And if the Prime Minister finds drama in that, talking about the death of 50 plus people, including the officers of the election commission,
20:53if he finds drama on that, I mean, what can be more insensitive than that?
20:59We don't expect that behavior from the Prime Minister also.
21:02Look at the data.
21:03My friend was talking about the role of the opposition.
21:06Look at the data in the last five, six years.
21:09Under 267, rule 267, no, nothing was allowed.
21:14150 parliamentarians were suspended at one go.
21:18The history, this is the first time in the history of Indian democracy.
21:21And look at the only 10% of the bills, they were discussed and they were passed.
21:2690% of the bills were passed without any resistance, without any discussion.
21:30That is the record of this government in the last six, seven years only.
21:34And then this is an issue which is striking a chord with the people of India.
21:38And for God's sake, when you're talking about the death of 50 plus people and the government,
21:42the opposition is raising this issue, it should discuss it.
21:45And in fact, I believe that the parliament should have begun by, by, you know, having this
21:50morning first, at least one minute silence on the death of these people.
21:54And other than that, the Prime Minister is calling it a drama.
21:57What is this?
21:58I mean, it's a debate it because you are responsible for appointing the election commission of India.
22:02You have tweaked the rule of appointment of the election commission of India.
22:05Sayyid Zafir Islam, respond, that's a very serious issue.
22:09BLO's, BLO's losing their lives.
22:12SIR process is resulting on the kind of pressure that BLO's and now their videos are coming out
22:18in public domain, sir.
22:19So, where is, why is the opposition wrong if it says it's an urgent issue, debate it in parliament.
22:26Akhilesh Adhava asks, is BLO death a drama, sir?
22:28No, first of all, anything, anything, anything to do with election commission, they should
22:39approach the election commission.
22:40They are not approaching the election commission, but they are only speaking on the television.
22:45My suggestion, like TMC went to election commission, Mohanajit knows the TMC delegation went to the
22:51election commission, met the election commissioner, chief election commissioner, whatever the grievances
22:56they had, that was adequately addressed.
22:58There was risk, they have been responded.
23:00Likewise, any other political party can approach.
23:02As far as BLO's are concerned, the clarification has already come from the election commission
23:08and I think it is important for us to see instead of making this kind of irrelevant and
23:12bestest and irresponsible statement which is coming from the opposition parties.
23:17Okay, so you're saying it's irrelevant?
23:19Okay, Mohanajit Mandel, come in, sir, quickly, quickly before I bring in Aarti Jain.
23:22Go on, sir.
23:23I want to come in, too, Gaurav.
23:25Please, madam, let's not be a parliament, the floor of the parliament.
23:30Can we have a same debate?
23:31I respect you a lot.
23:32The fact remains that TMC has gone to the office of the election commission and they
23:36had to extend the deadline.
23:39It suggests that everything was done in extraordinary haste.
23:42And that is the simple reason that people were killed.
23:44I mean, you're talking about seven plus core people in one month.
23:49Even I have friends in the BLO's, I mean, who are teaching in the school, their wife,
23:53their husband, they are under tremendous pressure.
23:55Not just in Bengal.
23:56Yes, maximum number of people were killed in Bengal.
23:59But it's happening across the country.
24:01It should have been more sensitive.
24:02We could have taken more time to do it.
24:05And you talk about going to the election commission.
24:06You are creating a very difficult environment for them.
24:09Hang on, please.
24:10You are a parliamentarian.
24:10Not election commission.
24:11It is you.
24:11You are a parliamentarian.
24:12It is your government.
24:12Hang on.
24:13Hang on.
24:13Let me speak.
24:14These people are poor.
24:15One by one.
24:16They are downtrodden people.
24:17All I am trying to tell you is that you must know the truth.
24:20Whenever we raise this issue, you ask them to go to the Supreme Court of India, they
24:24are not even finding two squares meal a day and you are asking them to go to the Supreme
24:28Court of India?
24:28The people of prominent citizens' names are not there.
24:31One of her friends on the media who appears on the television, Shikha Mukherjee's name
24:36has been deleted.
24:37She has been a voter since 1990.
24:39What are you talking about?
24:40This is an exercise which is fraught with tremendous danger and it was done absolutely
24:44underage, maybe under the durest of the government.
24:47No, no.
24:48Gaurav, Gaurav, Gaurav, instead of making this kind of statement, there is always a procedure
24:53to get you.
24:54No, no, I am saying this kind of statement, if somebody makes that this is the process
25:01one has to follow, if someone's name has been deleted accidentally or been missed, it
25:07is for you.
25:07There are opportunities there for you.
25:09Once you see that your name is missing, you must approach the election to Mishra.
25:12The Prime Minister said the opposition needs to change their strategy and include, you
25:17know, he said, I will give you tips which should include you perform.
25:21Let new members of parliament speak.
25:23Don't ignore their rights.
25:24Now, do you see more of what Malikarjun Tharge is saying will happen, you know, 12, in the
25:31monsoon session, 12 bills were passed, some with discussion of under 15 minutes and others
25:35with no discussion at all?
25:37Yeah, I think that's exactly the way this parliament session is going to go too.
25:42And, you know, I would just, just to comment on this SIR business.
25:48Look, I don't think that, you know, I think in a democracy, even one death should worry
25:54us.
25:55You know, and I don't think we should be so officious in saying that we need to follow
25:59proper procedure and so on.
26:01If there is a death, anybody dies.
26:04And that map that you put up just now, Gaurav, was quite revealing.
26:07It's not just in West Bengal.
26:09It is also in states that are ruled by the BJP.
26:13So, you know, clearly something is happening and I think it deserves a discussion.
26:18Now, you know, the opposition should approach a request for a discussion through the proper
26:24channels.
26:25But yes, there should be a discussion on this.
26:28And, you know, I think this map is very, very revealing.
26:31Look at it.
26:32It indeed is.
26:33It indeed is.
26:35But, you know, let me quote to you, Dr. Shama Mohammed.
26:40You know, if 10 to 15 crores go down the drain if parliament does not function.
26:46Remember Dr. Manmohan Singh in 2013 had said when BJP disrupted parliament by not allowing
26:51parliament to function, we make a mockery of our system.
26:54Or former Speaker Balram Jakar of the Congress Party, words to the effect, EC is a constitutional
26:59body.
27:01Their work cannot be discussed in parliament or words to that effect.
27:04How do you come around this issue, ma'am?
27:07Yeah.
27:07So, one, before I come to that, just now Zafar said one thing.
27:1140 BLO deaths are irrelevant.
27:15That's the word he used.
27:16Irrelevant.
27:17Can you imagine how insensitive the Bhartiya Janta Party has become?
27:21Because you can see the videos where they are crying, you know, that's very sad.
27:26And number two, you should listen to, you don't miss, no, no, don't say things which
27:33I have not spoken.
27:34I said, you people are making irrelevant statement, misleading the people.
27:39Election commission is giving the right feedback.
27:42You cannot, you cannot become judge.
27:44You don't know how they have died.
27:46Election commission knows the fact.
27:48And they are making the statement, they are giving the clarification.
27:51Okay, one by one.
27:52You are, you are insensitive and you are trying to mislead the nation.
27:57We will not allow you to do that.
27:59Okay.
27:59We will not allow you to do that.
28:01So, what, what, what, what, what, what, he just said a very important point when she started
28:05speaking.
28:06She said, the Prime Minister of India was provocative.
28:10He is provoking the, the, so, Manmohan Singh never provoked.
28:15Okay.
28:15Let's not forget it.
28:17You know, Atal Bihari, Vaswai never provoked the opposition.
28:18Sayyid Gaffer Islam, you wanted to quickly respond because of the last 30 seconds of this
28:21part of the show.
28:22That's the thing that Vaswai says that it is the duty of the treasury branch to run parliament.
28:25See, I, the, the, the, the, the only job the opposition, the opposition bench have,
28:32opposition parties to mislead the people.
28:34Like I said something else.
28:36What, what she said is, was totally misrepresentation of what I had said.
28:40That is what they are doing in the entire nation and that's why people are discarding
28:44them, rejecting them time and again.
28:46They must understand that by misleading the people, you will not achieve anything.
28:51By, by making a, un, unwarranted statement against the honourable Prime Minister, you will
28:56time and again be discarded by the people.
28:58You have to be more constructive.
28:58Fair enough.
28:58It's for the people of this country to decide, but this is a story we'll be tracking very
29:03closely.
29:03Do keep in mind, in September 2012, late Sushma Swaraj had said, we had to stall the parliament
29:10to expose the government.
29:12It's the government's job to run the parliament, not that of the opposition.
29:17Now, we'll be tracking the story very, very closely.
29:19I have to slip into a quick break here.
29:21I want to thank all my guests on this part of the show.
29:23Russian President Vladimir Putin's just hours away from his two-day visit to India.
29:27All eyes on that strategic power play between New Delhi and Moscow.
29:32The world is watching.
29:33Of course, defence cooperation is top of the agenda.
29:36There are discussions that are in place for the S-500 systems, advanced systems like the
29:42Su-57s and the R-37 missiles.
29:44But you saw the role of the S-400s during Operation Sindhu.
29:48But beyond defence, energy and trade also high on agenda.
29:52Global watchers from Washington, D.C. to Beijing are closely monitoring this high-stakes.
29:58Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Russian President Vladimir Putin's engagement as the two set
30:04to redefine India-Russia strategic partnership.
30:07All eyes are on Russian President Vladimir Putin, India's all-weather friend who is just hours away from his two-day visit to India.
30:37This meeting comes three months after Modi and Putin held bilateral on the sidelines of SCO in China's Tianjin.
30:50Lingering U.S. trade tensions and Russia's war with Ukraine have delayed deals like the Indo-U.S. pact.
30:54But Putin's visit can be a game-changer.
30:56Putin's visit can be a game-changer.
31:01Over two days, the leaders will discuss a wide-ranging
31:31agenda, defence, nuclear energy, oil, technology and trade.
31:39Defence remains a major pillar.
31:41High-end systems like the S-500 air defence platform are expected on the table,
31:47reinforcing Russia's role as India's primary partner in missile defence architecture.
31:53Even as India diversifies its defence suppliers, Russia's S-400 systems proved vital during Operation Sindur,
32:05spectacularly neutralising Pakistan's China and Turkey-made missiles.
32:11Bilateral trade hit a record $68.7 billion in last financial year, with India exporting machinery, textiles, chemicals and more,
32:21while imports from Russia remain dominated by crude oil, fertilisers, metals and machinery.
32:27From missile defence to energy security and billions in trade, Modi's dost Vladimir Putin's India visit is more than ceremonial.
32:37It is strategic.
32:39All eyes in global strategic sphere, especially in Trump's America, is fixated on this trip.
32:46With Shivani Sharma and Sandeep Unithan, Bureau Report, India Today.
32:56And joining me on the strategic significance of President Putin's visit to India,
33:00Ambassador Ajay Malhotra, India's former ambassador to Russia.
33:04John Black is former adviser to President Biden at the National University of Singapore.
33:10Sandeep Unithan is a senior journalist joining me on the show.
33:13Ambassador Malhotra, India and Russia share a close strategic partnership.
33:18But post-Operation Sindur and the meeting in Tianjin,
33:22will there be more global focus on the visit and the outcome?
33:27What do you think would be a key takeaway?
33:29I'm fairly certain there would be a lot of focus on this visit.
33:34President Putin doesn't travel out very often given the war situation with Ukraine.
33:41And any visit and that too to a country of some importance like India, I think, will draw the world's attention.
33:49There's absolutely no doubt about that.
33:51And the outcome of the visit also will have implications and bearing for international relations as a whole
34:00and for our relations with several countries.
34:04Hmm.
34:05John Blank, President Trump was to come to India for the Quad Summit.
34:10That didn't happen.
34:11President Putin is coming.
34:12They're meeting in midst of this additional 25% tariff burden on India.
34:17How would the US be viewing President Putin's visit to India?
34:21Well, they should be viewing it as the direct outcome of Mr. Trump's rather antagonistic attitude towards India.
34:32Slapping India with the world's highest tariffs while at the same time not giving the same level of tariffs to Putin's Russia is just mystifying.
34:44And at least as it might look to an observer, Prime Minister Modi is striking back, is trying to say, we're not going to be bound by the US dictates.
34:58We're going to further diversify our defense relationships.
35:03Defense relationships.
35:05Though, you know, oil imports from Russia are going down, energy imports from the US are increasing, Sandeep.
35:14But a lot of homework being done on the strategic partnership and defense cooperation.
35:20Give us more details.
35:21I believe there are conversations on not just the S-400s, but the S-500s.
35:26Su-57 fighter jets to be made in India, complete transfer of technology, nuclear submarines on lease.
35:35How much of this is just optics?
35:37And how will India take this forward in view of a CAATSA sanctions waiver, which was S-400 specific?
35:44Gaurav, I think what we're looking at is a very historic visit with President Putin visiting India.
35:51It's the 25th anniversary of the special strategic partnership with the Russian Federation.
35:56And extraordinary times, Russia is in the middle of a war, one of its longest wars of the 21st century.
36:03India is in the midst of Operation Sindur, which is an ongoing operation.
36:07And Operation Sindur would not have been the success it had been, Gaurav.
36:11But for those two critical systems, the BrahMos supersonic missile and, of course, the S-400 long-range air defense missile.
36:19Now, what we are being told is that the five S-400 regiments are a done deal.
36:25This was the original plan as well, Gaurav, before.
36:28It was for 10 regiments of the S-400.
36:30It was scaled back to five.
36:32We're getting those five again.
36:34And in addition to that, there's talks of the S-500, which is the next generation of long-range air defense missiles,
36:40which basically can tackle threats at the edge of space, Gaurav.
36:44It can take down satellites.
36:46It can take down hypersonic missiles, stealth aircraft.
36:49This is the kind of technology that India wants.
36:52And, of course, on the 15th of August, we heard it from the Prime Minister,
36:56where he announced that we would have a Sudarshan Chakra shield, a missile defense shield over India very soon.
37:02He's given a timeline of 10 years.
37:04It is capabilities like the S-500 and the S-400 that India very urgently requires, Gaurav, to secure its airspace.
37:12And, of course, there are platforms like the Su-57 fifth-generation fighter aircraft only as an interim buy before we can buy, you know, get our own AMCA aircraft.
37:22AMCA aircraft.
37:23AMCA in place.
37:24Nuclear-powered attack submarines, Gaurav.
37:26It's the only relationship in the world where one country leases nuclear-powered attack submarines from another.
37:31We have a Chakra 3 coming in two years from now.
37:34And there is an offer of two more such submarines should India want to option that lease arrangement.
37:42So, Ambassador Malhotra, will procurement of this military hardware depend on the outcome of the Russia-Ukraine war?
37:49Because there are some reports that suggest Europe is working on a strategy to keep helping Ukraine despite either U.S. reluctance or U.S. pulling back completely.
37:59Well, in my view, Europe has not got much remaining to offer to help the Ukrainians.
38:07So, I wouldn't worry too much about that.
38:10And I think the Russians have ramped up their production capabilities sufficiently to handle the Ukraine war actually with one hand tied behind their backs.
38:20And I do see them coming forward.
38:24We are a partner of long-standing six and a half decades of military cooperation out there.
38:30And they offered us the S-400 a long time ago.
38:35In fact, we were the ones who didn't take it.
38:37And I'm very happy that a responsible government is now looking to the protection of a civilian population.
38:43You can't just go nuclear and then forget about, you know, counter nuclear strikes by somebody else.
38:49And we live in a neighborhood where we have two countries who have nuclear weaponry.
38:55So, yeah, it's good that we're looking at S-400.
38:58I think a few S-400 systems, the Russians have it in hand.
39:02And if the 5 plus 5, as Sandeep has mentioned, is what's out there, it's absolutely appropriate.
39:08And we must look at the S-500 going ahead.
39:10I'm sure we would be the first to be offered it by the Russians.
39:14But the point here is we have to also see that its capabilities are proven.
39:18And I think that sharing of data, as for media reports, is what is going on.
39:23And when that's in place, you would look at getting the S-500.
39:26Because the responsible government must have these things in place, at least for the average citizen in the country.
39:33You can't just leave us exposed by doing nuclear tests and then forgetting about the defensive aspects of what needs to be done.
39:41Absolutely. But, Johnna Blank, will CAATSA sanctions come into play?
39:47Should India go ahead, whether it's a couple of squadrons of Su-57 as an interim?
39:53You know, the Akula-class submarines should be going for additional S-400 and S-500 systems?
39:59Because the waiver was only for the existing 39,000 crore rupee deal that predates CAATSA.
40:06Yes, the sanctions are a real issue.
40:11And I think an even bigger issue is India's overall direction in its defense relationships.
40:18For around 20 years, India has been trying to move and has been moving from Russia-supplied platforms to Western, U.S. and NATO-supplied platforms, because they're better and they're the future.
40:34But there have been two main problems.
40:36First is that U.S. and other Western allies using Western U.S. technology have been very reluctant to co-produce and to transfer technology.
40:47And the second, which is really just an issue in the past year, is that in the second Trump administration, India has felt quite rightly that the U.S. is a highly unreliable supplier.
41:00So, I think there is an appetite to go with Western platforms for the future, but the West and particularly the U.S. is making that exceptionally difficult.
41:12And not for the first time, Mr. Blank, as you would well recall, when India did the 1998 Pokhra nuclear tests, our entire Seeking and Sea Harrier fleet was grounded because U.K. and U.S. would not give spares.
41:25The light combat aircraft suffered because the G404 engines did not come.
41:30And that is why U.S. was always seen as a very unreliable partner.
41:35It took 25 years to overcome that, Sandeep.
41:39And once again, we are back in exactly the same position that the Americans are extremely unreliable.
41:45So, there's another generation in India that's growing up realizing how unreliable the Americans are.
41:50If the West can be trusted, it's only the French, Sandeep, isn't it?
41:54Absolutely, Gaurav.
41:55And if you've seen the moves that the government of India has made over the last couple of weeks and months, it's towards France as being the halfway house between East and West.
42:06And this has always been the case where every time we wanted, you know, cutting edge Western technology, we went to France because the French sold us technology without any strings attached.
42:17They might be a little expensive, but there is no diplomatic leverage that they have sought over arms transfers.
42:24And this is, again, what we are looking at.
42:26We are looking at India going back to France for high technology systems like fighter jet engines.
42:32Safran is the name that's around.
42:37With the light combat aircraft, Gaurav, it was a leap of faith.
42:40We trusted the Americans to supply us the GE 404 and later the 414 engines.
42:46That trust has been completely shattered in 2025.
42:49And as you rightly mentioned, we are back to 1998.
42:53Literally, this is sanctions by some other name, Gaurav.
42:56This so-called supply chain issues, which is literally sabotaging our prized light combat aircraft indigenous program, is nothing but sanctions by another name.
43:06And this is a call that the government of India seems to have made that we will most likely go with France and certainly with Russia as a preferred security partner, Gaurav.
43:18Because that's tried and tested relationship that's held India in good stead in the past, unlike the Americans.
43:24But Ambassador Malhotra, if India were to go in for the additional S-400s and the S-500s and the Russia-Ukraine war is still on, does India risk additional sanctions from the West?
43:39Well, you know, these are unilateral sanctions.
43:43If the Americans put them, we'll have to live with it.
43:46This is really not the behavior we expect of a partner to whom we want good relations with.
43:52We not only look to partnering with the Americans, but with the Russians.
43:56So both of them are our friends.
43:58And if you see Trump reaching out to Putin, the meetings that are taking place, the exchanges that are taking place,
44:05USA and Russia may well move ahead and sort this issue out.
44:09And we can't then be left stranded up here.
44:11And in any case, we have to look to our own domestic manufacturing.
44:15And I agree with Sandeep what he said.
44:18The Safran engine TOT deal that lies ahead is very encouraging.
44:24Because it's not that we want Russian or even French or American.
44:28We want to have our own manufacturing for everything.
44:31And that's why Atmanir Bhar, etc. has to be done.
44:34Because ultimately, you can't be a country which claims to have strategic autonomy
44:39when 70-80% of your requirements of arms and weaponry are imported.
44:44It doesn't matter from where.
44:46So we need to move in this direction.
44:48And yet, we can work with the Americans.
44:51Their procedures are such that congressional approval takes time, etc.
44:56And spares are a problem.
44:59Technology transfer doesn't take place.
45:00So we have to live with that.
45:02But that doesn't mean we are unfriendly towards them.
45:04We are friendly towards them and want to have good relations with them.
45:07Absolutely.
45:08And what Trump did, you know, John Blank was completely uncalled for.
45:14The additional 25% sanctions.
45:16The delay in GE 404 engines.
45:18It would just appear that America is not really reliable as a partner.
45:23But are we to believe that in case the Russia-Ukraine war continues
45:27and India were to go in for additional military hardware from Russia,
45:31there would be more sanctions that would strain India-US relations even further?
45:36Anyways, America is getting closer to Pakistan, which is a cause for grave concern for India.
45:41Yes, you're absolutely right.
45:44Will there be additional sanctions?
45:46We don't know because one of the hallmarks of the Trump administration is utter unpredictability.
45:53There really is not a coherent geostrategic plan here.
46:00How can one find the logic of slapping the world's highest tariffs on India purportedly for purchasing Russian oil
46:09at the same time that Mr. Trump is taking Russia's side in its war against Ukraine?
46:17It's just very difficult to see the logic there.
46:20Setting aside the fact that China buys more Russian oil than India does and it is not hit with this extra 25% tariff.
46:28Oh, absolutely.
46:30So, Sandeep, all eyes also on this meeting.
46:32We're told Steve Witkoff is carrying a message from the US President for President Putin.
46:39The outcome of that, will that have an impact on whatever India and Russia intend to do or India and Russia will bash on regardless?
46:47I think, Gaurav, what we have with the Russians is such a unique relationship that it's not going to be held hostage by other relationships that India has,
46:59very critical ones like the India-US relationships.
47:02And I think that regardless of what happens, the India-Russia relationship is going to proceed.
47:09Trump would, of course, want India to buy a lot of American oil and, of course, American weapons.
47:17But that doesn't seem to be happening, given the kind of trust deficit that now exists, Gaurav.
47:22But for the moment, I think New Delhi Prime Minister Modi is very clear that Russia represents the way ahead
47:31when it comes to solving India's strategic dilemmas, whether it is energy or its national security, Gaurav.
47:38Is there also your appreciation, the last 30 seconds that I have on this part of the show, Ambassador Malhotra,
47:43that India will go ahead whatever we want to buy from Russia, irrespective of how the Russia-Ukraine war pans out in future?
47:50Yes, we should. I mean, we are not subject to things that happen elsewhere.
47:56These are our decisions. We have to act in our national interest.
47:59And that if it demands that we do something to protect our citizens by having these particular systems, we should have them.
48:05Ultimately, our own manufactured systems. But till then, if it means Russian systems, so be it.
48:10And if the Americans had a competing system, we'd be happy to hear about it.
48:14But they don't have anything that can compare with the S-500.
48:17The THARD clearly nowhere close, but I will let that be the last word on this part of the show.
48:26Thank you, Ambassador Malhotra and Sandeep, as always, for joining me here on India First.
48:30Many thanks. We'll be tracking President Putin's visit very closely.
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