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A massive political war erupted in Lok Sabha as Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi sought to quote an unpublished "memoir" of former Army chief M M Naravane on the 2020 India-China conflict in the Lok Sabha on Monday.
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00:00Good evening, the Congress and the BJP cross swords in Parliament over post-Galwan standoff between India and China on the Kailash Hills in Eastern Ladakh in 2020.
00:12Leader of Opposition Rahul Gandhi quoted an unpublished memoir of then Army Chief General Manoj Mukul Narwane claiming that the government, he claimed, Rahul Gandhi claims that the government was scared.
00:23Both Defence Minister Rajnath Singh and Home Minister Amit Shah hit right back. They've accused Rahul Gandhi, one, of not following parliamentary norms, two, they sought evidence to back his claims.
00:34But was the government scared or did India actually stare the dragon down with quid pro quo operations on Kailash Hills? That's our top focus story.
00:46Massive sunset showdown on China Raga.
00:49Rahul Gandhi's sites, Chal Narwane's memoir sparks a huge controversy.
00:58What Mr. Narawane said, no.
01:01It's a matter of national security. Chinese troops, forces were right in front of our forces.
01:09Defence Minister Rajnath Singh slams what he calls is a bid to mislead.
01:14The Home Minister condemns what he calls a violation of Parliament's rules.
01:39Rahul Gandhi doubles down on his China charge.
01:43Congress alleges the government is hiding facts.
01:56BJP puts out Jal Narwane's quote of staring the dragon down.
02:07Parliament, PLA posturing and politics is our top focus on India first.
02:24Rahul Gandhi claims his assessment was based on the thinking or perception of General M.M. Narwane, then Chief of Army Staff, and he's quoting an unpublished memoir, Four Stars of Destiny.
02:38The question also is, why is the book unpublished?
02:42We explore.
02:43And is there merit in Rahul Gandhi claiming that the government was scared when facts actually indicate that the government actually or the armed forces, they stood up to Chinese salami slicing of Indian territory.
02:54Salami slicing of Indian territory that's been on for decades at the line of actual control.
02:59The government or the army, if I may, the armed forces actually pushed back, including this quid pro-co operations going and sitting on top of the Kailash Hills, where the Chinese were on the defensive.
03:11I was reporting from Ladakh, I've interviewed General Joshi, then army commander, we'll get you what he also said, disengagement happened, but also keep in mind, de-escalation is yet to happen, de-induction has still not happened.
03:26Debates like this, discussions like this, does that give the adversary an edge, a thing, you know, the adversary gets to know what is the thinking in the government or in the armed forces, or if there are lacuna in it, higher direction of war.
03:41We'll debate all of that.
03:42I'm Gaurav Savant, as always, let's get started with the headlines on India First.
03:51Bengal SIR storm intensifies, TMC delegation led by Mamata Banerjee wears black shoals during a meeting with the CEC.
03:58Chief Minister accuses the poll body of deleting voters at the behest of the BJP.
04:04EC sources reject Mamata Banerjee's charge.
04:11So, no India versus Pakistan match in T20 World Cup 2026.
04:17Pakistan chickens out of that game against India.
04:21ICC chair meets to discuss Pakistan's boycott drama, India to travel to Sri Lanka and practice as per schedule.
04:28Centre defence activist Sonam Vangchuk's detention in the Supreme Court says his speeches sought to incite youth in Ladakh and push the region towards unrest like in Nepal, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka.
04:47Months after the Ahmedabad crash, possible fuel switch defect detected in Air India, London to Bengaluru Boeing aircraft.
05:03AAIB preliminary report showed that Air India 171 plane crash after fuel switch moved to cutoff.
05:11Biggest Baloch attack in Balochistan.
05:20Two women suicide bombers target Pakistan Army.
05:23BLSAs close to 200 Pakistani soldiers killed in the attack.
05:27Pakistani officials claim they've killed 145 Baloch fighters.
05:31So, leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi cited an article in a magazine reportedly quoting an unpublished memoir of former Army Chief General Manoj Mukund Narwane to claim that Narendra Modi government was scared of the Chinese.
05:52This is Rahul Gandhi's interpretation during the post-Galwan standoff.
05:56He claims this was the perception of then Army Chief General Narwane that the army was let down by political leadership of the country.
06:04The BJP says that's clearly not true considering Prime Minister Narendra Modi had given the armed forces a virtual card blanche on how to respond to the Chinese at the LAC.
06:13And look at the facts on ground.
06:15Not only did India stand up to China, but India stared the dragon down with that quid pro quo operation.
06:21So, if the Chinese were coming in in one direction, India went and occupied the Kailash Ranges and they were directly dominating the Moldo garrison.
06:28We'll get you more details on that about the operations on the Kailash Hills and the disengagement that subsequently took place.
06:35But was General Narwane implying that there was a weakness in his perception in the higher direction of war?
06:43That's that big political face-off.
06:47Sir, he's not yielding.
06:49No, sir. No, sir. No, sir.
06:51No, no, sir. No, no. He is not yielding. He is not yielding.
06:55He is trying to quote a magazine report.
07:03He is not yielding.
07:09He is not yielding. cya name is yielding. So, that's that big news is yielding.
07:13He takes place to prove me.
07:14Yes, sir, which is good news is the way of bringing people to the US?
07:15What's your opinion?
07:17Yes, sir.
07:17What about your opinion?
07:18I do know.
07:19I'm not yielding.
07:19The government turned into a battleground.
07:49Repeated disruptions, loud sloganeering and a political face-off between top ministers
08:08in the Modi government and leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi over a yet-to-be-published book
08:14by former chief of the army staff, General Manoj Mukund Narwane.
08:23Rahul Gandhi stood up with a magazine article citing quotes allegedly from General Narwane's
08:31book on Chinese incursions.
08:33But before he could proceed, the treasury benches objected.
08:38It's a matter of national security.
08:46Chinese troops' forces were right in front of our forces.
08:54Chinese forces, our forces had taken Kailash Ridge, sir, in Eastern Ladakh.
09:01Rahul Gandhi insists that claims of Chinese incursions are authentic, insisting that these are from
09:24General Narwane's account.
09:26This is not me.
09:30This is the army chief.
09:33This is what the army chief has written in a book.
09:37The book is not being allowed to be published.
09:40It is languishing.
09:42This is the army chief's perspective, his view.
09:44Why are they so scared of the army chief's perspective?
09:47The speaker cited parliamentary rules and asked the leader of opposition in Lok Sabhatu to follow them,
09:54not cite sources that hadn't been authenticated.
09:57But Rahul Gandhi continued to repeat his point, despite multiple rulings by the chair.
10:24The congressman said,
10:54hit back saying BJP does not want uncomfortable facts discussed.
11:24He is trying to quote a magazine report.
11:34Lok Sabha was adjourned for the day but the Congress continued with its attack on the government
11:42outside Parliament. Will there be more fireworks on Jal Narwaneh's book on Tuesday?
11:49With Mosmee Singh and Piyush Mishra, Bureau Report, India Today.
12:19You've written three books including on operational matters from Pulwama to Balakot recounting
12:25when you were Kashmir Corps commander.
12:27How were you able to publish your book and Jal Narwaneh who wrote about something about
12:332020 India-China standoff.
12:35His book remains unpublished sir.
12:37Good evening, Gaurav and good evening to all of us.
12:43To answer your question specifically, first I will give up the procedure of getting a operational
12:49clearance from the army headquarters.
12:51If any serving or retired officer wants to publish a book which contains operational matters.
12:57My first book contains complete domain of the Kashmir issue starting from 1989 right up to Pulwama,
13:11Balakot airstrikes and abrogation of Article 370.
13:15After having written the book, I submitted the script to the army headquarters for their approval.
13:20Now there are three types, three options which are there when a book's manuscript is submitted
13:27to the army headquarters for approval.
13:29One is the people there, like when I was at EGDIA, I was myself, you know, approving the
13:34scripts or manuscripts of various authors who were writing on the three services combined
13:40of oppressions.
13:42So the three options when a manuscript comes up for approval, one is people go through the
13:47manuscript, they find nothing wrong with it, and they say, okay, approved, and there is
13:52nothing which is against the military reputation or which is unverified or which is giving out
13:57confidential operational details.
14:00So they approve the manuscript as it is.
14:02Second is, they interact with the author and they tell him, we have objections on this,
14:08this, this, and this aspect, line by line, paragraph by paragraph.
14:12And the author either explains his point of view, or he agrees to delete that line, which
14:19is not, you know, compatible with both the parties.
14:22Most of the times, author gives their explanation and say, okay, I'll amplify this line.
14:27So there it gets resolved.
14:28And third is, if there are some serious problems with the book, that means you are giving out
14:33some operational details, which may jeopardize the national security or operational plans,
14:40then the clearance is withheld.
14:42Unless the author agrees to delete those chapters or paragraphs or lines.
14:47So what happened with General Narwaneh's book, sir?
14:51Why has General Narwaneh's book not seen the light of day?
14:55The goal of work I told you, my first book was on Kashmir.
14:58My second book was on the military leadership ethos.
15:00My third book was on operational sandhur, within three months of the operation having concluded.
15:06And my book was, you know, we interacted with the army headquarters 30-40 times, and few
15:10lines were deleted, few lines were added.
15:13And finally, I got clearance for writing on operational sandhur within three months of
15:16the operation.
15:17So there is no problem in getting a clearance if you are not violating any norms.
15:23Now coming to your specific question about why General Narwaneh's book?
15:27Now see, General Narwaneh was a former chief, he wrote as a former chief, and the book was
15:32to be published in 2024.
15:34The pre-orders were only on various online sites.
15:38As per my information, I may be wrong, as per my information, I think General Narwaneh's
15:44book's manuscript did not go up for clearance from the army headquarters or the ministry of
15:50Reference.
15:51Now, this is a point which only General Narwaneh can verify or the publisher can verify.
15:56But if the book has not been approved by the military authorities, and it contains operational
16:03details which can jeopardize the national security or the operational plans, then I'm afraid such
16:10a manuscript, I don't think it can be allowed to be published.
16:13But the details can only be verified from General Narwaneh over the publisher.
16:19Okay.
16:20Now that book remains unpublished, when certain aspects have been brought out in public domain
16:26and pre-launch copies, including some circulated in the media, I'm told by the publishers,
16:33if it gives out that impression that, you know, the general reached out to the government
16:38at X number of hours, X situation was developing, and then 15 minutes later, 30 minutes later,
16:4445 minutes later, one hour later, and the tanks were virtually eyeball to eyeball, does
16:50that, you know, indicate poor higher direction for war in your appreciation, considering you
16:57were there during, one, Pulwama, two, when Balakot airstrikes took place, and when Article
17:02370 happened, while that was more an internal security situation, and here it is vis-a-vis China,
17:07does that indicate poor higher direction, that a general has to take a call, and he's feeling
17:12lonely at the top?
17:15Guru, when Pulwama, Balakot strikes, and Article 370 abrogation happened, I was the commander
17:21in Kashmir, the actions on ground, the battle drills at the sub-tactical level, and the
17:27battle procedures at the, you know, tactical level, they are the prerogative of the commanders
17:32on ground.
17:34The higher direction of war, or the political leadership's direction of war, or the clearances
17:38are given, when you have to initiate a war, when you have to start a war from zero, then
17:44the politicians or the government will say, okay, you can start the war, this is the time,
17:49it's acceptable to us, or you can launch airstrikes, or you can launch surgical strikes, or whatever.
17:55Now, for that initiation of war, the political higher direction is a must, as per our democratic
18:03norms, but once the war has been joined, take example of oppression, once we have gone in
18:10and hit those nine targets, nine terror targets, clearance to hit those nine terror targets on
18:15the 7th of May, early morning, would come from the political higher direction.
18:21But after that, when Pakistan responds, Pakistan sends in the missiles and drones, nobody is
18:26going to go back to political hierarchy to say, sir, drone are you, missile are you, you
18:30are you, you are you, you are you, you are you, you are you, you are you, you are you.
18:32Those are the military commanders on ground who will take the decision, and those decisions
18:38are taken by the commanding officers and the brigade commanders, not even at the, you know,
18:42army chief or army commander's level.
18:43Army commander, army chief would say, this is our, you know, operational orders, these are
18:48operational instructions.
18:50Then once the battle is joined, there afterwards, for everything, you don't go back to the highest
18:54authorities to take clearances.
18:57That's what the commanders on ground are supposed to do, no, coming to a specific question.
19:00So, whether the barrel of the tank, if the Chinese tanks are advancing, and we are already
19:05on top of the Kailash Hills on QPQ operations, we've already occupied higher ground, so then
19:10if the tanks are advancing, and if, as is being said, that General YK Joshi then said, I want
19:15to open up with medium RT, to open up medium RT or 155mm how it does, then political clearance
19:21is required?
19:22Whatever, would you talk to General YK Joshi, General YK Joshi has also written a book.
19:31In that book, on page 225, his book, the title is, Who Dares Wins.
19:38In that book, at page 225, he very clearly gives out the incident which the Naravani has
19:43also referred to.
19:45And as per General YK Joshi, what he has written in the book, he says after Galwaan in June 2020,
19:53we had started preparing for a quid pro quo.
19:57That means the extension of the Galwaan incident in June 2020, the preparation was already on
20:04for a QPQ option or an operation, which happened on the 9th of 29th and 30th of August at Kalash
20:11range in Richarna area.
20:13Now, if that operation was a pre-planned operation, and it had already been planned, as per General
20:18YK Joshi's book, Who Dares Wins.
20:21That means it was an extension of the conflict, which was already going on.
20:26So, there is no requirement of a political clearance once the battle is already on.
20:32And as you refer to what the article says, the tank ka barrel niche kar lena hai, upra
20:37kar lena sa.
20:38Those are battle drills.
20:40Battle drills are at sub-tactical level.
20:42The tank commander who is driving that tank, he knows the enemy target is in front of him.
20:48Once the target has been clearly given to him by his squadron commander or his regimental
20:53commander, then what position his barrel should be, at what position his aiming should be,
21:00that is the prerogative of the tank commander.
21:02For that, the clearances are not taken from the highest level.
21:06That is how the battles are fought on the ground.
21:09General Dhillan, for joining me here on India today, many thanks and those are images that
21:13we are showing to you when the Indian and the Chinese tanks were virtually eyeball to
21:17eyeball and the Chinese then withdrew from that standoff situation.
21:23So, how did India tame the dragon?
21:25Let me now give our viewers some details of what happened in 2020.
21:30Let's take it date by date.
21:31General Dhillan, many thanks for joining me.
21:33On the 29th of August 2020, there was an intelligence input.
21:37So, the intelligence inputs were there that PLA troops were seen moving up the Chushul bowl.
21:43When you look at that location and we are showing it to you on the map, 29th of August, there
21:47was intelligence input that the Chinese have started moving.
21:49On the night of 29th and 30th, the moment you saw that the Chinese were already moving up,
21:56so there was a race.
21:57The Chinese were racing for the heights and the PLA had reached a helmet top and black top.
22:02On the 30th of August, India was very clear.
22:05General YK Joshi, in an interview to India today, and we'll play out that interview, he
22:09told us that they were very clear that they had to beat the Chinese with the QPQ operations
22:14and immediately, so they knew there would be a stalemate in case China occupies the top
22:19first.
22:20On the 30th of August, 29th, 30th of August, he reached out to Army Chief General Manoj Mukund
22:25Narwane.
22:26He got clearance.
22:27General Narwane said, go ahead, do the QPQ on the Kailash range.
22:31That was green light, green lit.
22:32And on the 30th of August, India just went right on top.
22:37Troops that were available with the brigade and these were those very hardy, not just Ladakh
22:44scouts, but you know, those Tibetan boys, they quickly went and occupied the Mukpari,
22:50Rizangla, Richinla, where they were dominating the Chinese Moldo garrison.
22:54And this was where the Chinese were taken aback that the Indian Army had already moved
22:59in and they were dominating China's main garrison in that area in Moldo, the 30th August night.
23:06This was when PLA, in an attempt to browbeat India, they started moving their armor up.
23:12This is when tension started rising and there was a confrontation of a risk.
23:15But what did India do?
23:17India had our tanks in that situation.
23:19So the tanks were virtually eyeball to eyeball and parked there.
23:23They were there.
23:24A one accidental discharge could have sparked off a war.
23:28So on 31st, there was this tank faceoff barely 50 meters apart.
23:32On the 31st of August, India's second surprise, the troops outflanked the Chinese.
23:38And this was at finger four.
23:40This was one of the friction points.
23:42So on the north bank of Pengong, so because the Indians had already seen that the Chinese
23:46were trying to move forward on the south bank, they went on top of finger four and the PLA
23:52was checkmated, outmaneuvered.
23:55And India was on top of Kailash range and on finger four.
23:59Now that is where the Chinese attitude changed completely.
24:03They were initially in all the military talks that were happening.
24:07They were refusing to disengage.
24:10But once India occupied higher ground, remember, this is a lesson China only respects strength.
24:16You show strength, the Chinese will back off.
24:18And we'll play out what General Narwane told India today.
24:21He told my colleague Manjit Negi that whether it's a bully in your class or whether it is, you know, the northern adversary,
24:30you stare the dragon down, he will move back.
24:34That's exactly what happened.
24:35Listen in to Manjit Singh Negi in conversation with General Narwane.
24:44foreign
25:14I think not only of the PLA itself, but I feel it diminished the stature of China as a country
25:30in the global eyes. Because after this clash occurred and we showed that it is possible
25:37to stand up to China who tries to bully its smallest neighbors. Once we did that, I think
25:45from Canada to Lithuania to Europe to Philippines, everyone actually, you know, got that feeling
25:52that yes, if you're fighting for what is correct, if you have a principle stand, it is possible
25:56to take a stand even against China. And India as a country, we showed, India as a country
26:03showed to the world that it is possible to take on that neighborhood bully. As is the
26:07case everywhere, whether it is a school bully or a neighborhood bully, you have to stand
26:10up to him sometime or the other. We showed it can be done.
26:15Now, you're hearing, General Narwaneh yourself. In fact, in 2020, I traveled to Dolatbeg Oldi.
26:19Dolatbeg Oldi, as those images show you, it's the world's highest advanced landing ground.
26:24Because in 2020, at the height of Galwan's standoff, there were these rumors being spread
26:28that India had been cut off at Galwan or India was facing trouble. I reported from ground
26:34zero. Subsequently, in 2021, I interviewed then Army Commander General YK Joshi once the
26:40disengagement process had started. After that very tense standoff, now General Joshi as Army
26:46Commander Northern Command gave me details about, you know, that Rizangla, Richanla, QPQ operations
26:52that India mounted or both on the South Bank and the North Bank where India occupied, dominated,
26:58heights, and ultimately, the Chinese pulled back. Listen in.
27:04If we were to talk about what's happening on the South Bank of Peng Ong, so, we are told
27:09it's a brilliant operation and give us some details about how you planned that operation
27:14on the night of 29th and 30th of August to occupy the Kailash Rangers. Are we giving in
27:21too much by getting him, by us vacating the Kailash Rangers and he's only going beyond finger
27:27it? Again, you know, this was the turning point of the entire Snow Leopard, the entire
27:36events that are happening in Eastern Ladakh. Prior to 29th and 30th of August, you know,
27:41five core commander-level flag meetings had been held and we were going nowhere. So, I
27:46got directions from my chief that we need to, you know, create some leverage so that then
27:51we can exert pressure on the PLA and then, you know, get the negotiations into a favorable
27:57position. And once these operations were, you know, conducted, we were able to totally
28:01surprise the PLA on the Razangra-Chinla complex, on the South Bank and even on the North Bank,
28:07you know, where we occupied areas which are dominating the entire PLA deployment on the
28:11area of finger 4 and in the area behind finger 4 as well, right up to finger 8.
28:16Let me bring in our political guests on this debate. I have Radhika Khera representing the
28:21Bharatiya Janata Party. I have Dr. Ajay Kumar, a former police officer, someone who's worn
28:26the uniform, Congress Party spokesperson joining me on the broadcast. In a moment from now,
28:30we'll also be going to General Sharma, former co-commander, but that's subsequently not in
28:35the political debate. But Radhika Khera, Rahul Gandhi's leader of opposition, madam. How is
28:41he wrong when he asks what rule can stop him from asking a very critical national security?
28:46Why not let him raise the question and answer whatever question he may have?
28:51Good evening to everyone. Let's cut through the noise in theatrics and place facts on the
28:56table, Gaurav. What we witnessed in Parliament today was not a debate on national security.
29:00It was a political stunt built on hearsay, half-truths and deliberate misrepresentation.
29:06First of all, this was a budget session. Rahul Gandhi, who claims that India is a dead economy,
29:11why did he run away from a discussion on the same so-called dead economy and the budget?
29:14That should have been the point of concern today. But following a script, which comes from God
29:19knows where, his toolkit, Rahul Gandhi stood up claiming that national security concerns.
29:24And what did he rely on? No official briefings, no parliamentary records,
29:29no statements of the army or the government. When the army, navy, air force chiefs speak,
29:33when they spoke about Operation Sindur, the same Rahul Gandhi and his party disregarded their words
29:38as lies and believed President Trump. They believed Pakistan. And they, as you all,
29:43everybody knows that Rahul Gandhi is the poster boy of Pakistan. So instead, he chose to quote a magazine
29:48article.
29:48That's a grave charge to level on the leader of opposition, ma'am.
29:53Gaurav, you cover national security and you're an expert at it. And you've seen all his statements
29:59have made headlines in Pakistan. All Pakistan news channels say,
30:03look, Rahul Gandhi is what he's doing. Of course, he's the poster boy because he refuses to believe
30:06our own army, navy, air force chiefs. Did he believe that we have the amount of planes
30:11that we've downed in Pakistan? No. But he believes Trump and questions us
30:14that how many planes are our country? When has Rahul Gandhi believed any of our air force,
30:18navy or army chiefs?
30:19Okay. But let me for the moment stay on the current issue that he's raising.
30:22And now I can't quote because I believe breaking news that's just coming in. Part of Rahul Gandhi's,
30:28what he said in parliament has been now expunged. Dr. Ajay Kumar, you know, whatever Rahul Gandhi
30:35said inside now, we can't repeat since it's expunged. But outside, he came out and he reiterated
30:39that the government is scared of China. And he quoted from what he calls is an unpublished book
30:45of General Narwane. Sir, the BJP says Nehru surrendered thousands of acres of land. BJP quotes from
30:50BN Malik's book. How will India fight China, sir? How will India fight China if this is
30:57the way Congress and the BJP take on each other? The only person celebrating today perhaps
31:02would be Xi Jinping and the Chinese. How divided India is?
31:07So a couple of things. First of all, I want to correct Radhika ji. It was not on budget
31:10discussion. It was on the president's address. And since he was referring to what unsavory
31:16comment Tejasvi Surya made, we wanted to show that how the government of India has let down
31:22the armed forces. Now, Gaurav, I just wanted to ask a question. The same General Narwane,
31:29a very respected army officer, has not said that he didn't write that. Okay? He didn't
31:36write that. Now, what he's written, and you're an expert, you're a seasoned journalist, and I
31:41hope Radhika also understands from a country's perspective. And I would like to advise Radhika ji,
31:45please stop labeling opposition leaders poster boy. If I say Prime Minister is an Epstein's
31:50poster boy, does it look good? I don't want to use these statements, please. I mean,
31:54I had to say such a low-level comment because you make these comments, and I really again
31:58request you. No Indian, no member of parliament is always things for India's interest. You and
32:03I may have a different role, but this kind of, he's a Pakistani. We don't call the Prime
32:06Minister a Pakistani poster boy. We don't call Rajnath Singh the Chinese agent because he didn't
32:11listen to Narwane, to General Narwane, or everybody switched off their phones, or Ajit
32:15Dobal. And also, I say that, why do we speak this unsavory language? The debate is General
32:21Narwane's unpublished book. Now, General Narwane has not said that. Now, what is it in the book?
32:26If you remember, when Vajpayeeji's Kargil thing, the Cabinet Committee for Security continuously
32:32met, even in Balakot. The famous cloud radar thing Prime Minister said during that time,
32:37but if you remember, even during Operation Sindhu, you guys covered the Cabinet Committee
32:41on Security's meeting continuously, continuously. Why? For every event, there was a continuous
32:49coverage. But when the Chinese were moving with tanks, and the chief of the Indian army
32:56calls the foreign minister, the defense minister, the NSA, because it's an act of war. I was hearing
33:05a general before that. If the army had fired on the Chinese tanks, it would have been a start
33:10of a war, technically. So, he had to take the permission from the government of India. There
33:15was no debate on that. The decision which came from the Prime Minister, which should have come
33:19earlier, is, you should have come from the Cabinet Committee of Security. The decision which
33:25said, you should understand, you should do it. That the government of India, the process,
33:31the nation should say, and it's not a question of Congress or BJP. And I'm really pained by
33:35this discussion. And Radhika Ji, you are much younger to me, like my... So, I just want to say
33:39that, please, let's stop this. The important part is, General Narwane has not said he didn't
33:45write that. And if he did write that, Gaurav, won't you feel that it is a serious issue, that
33:51the chief of army staff doesn't, and the Chinese are going up the time, because if you are fired
33:55at the Chinese, and the Chinese tanks are destroyed, fine. Is it a start of a war? Is it the escalation?
34:01Is the nation ready to do it? Those are political decisions which the army chief was seeking.
34:06It was not tactical. Radhika Khera, respond. Radhika Khera, respond. You know, Rahul Gandhi's
34:11statements quoting General Narwane's unpublished memoyals. You know, the Congress says that indicates
34:16a weakness in the higher direction of war, in the directive that should have come from
34:22the political leadership to the army at a time when the Chinese tanks were apparently,
34:26in those memoyals, apparently as quoted by Rahul Gandhi or, you know, in public domain,
34:32seem to indicate that the Chinese tanks were advancing. I have a different version of that
34:36story from General YK Joshi, a completely different version when I interviewed him, and
34:41we've played that out on India today. But, respond, madam.
34:44First of all, let me remind Ajay, sir, that A, yes, this session was formerly the, what happened
34:50today was a motion of thanks to the president's address, but it is still a part of the budget
34:54session of the parliament. So, budget session has two phases. Let me, again, the Congress
34:58is misleading the people. First phase, president's address and motion of thanks. And second phase,
35:03you have the budget presentation and discussion. So, motion of thanks is within the budget session.
35:06So, I was factually correct. Secondly, sir. Now, if you, Rahul Gandhi, who is the leader
35:11of opposition, of the world's largest democracy, he cannot, and he belongs to the Congress party.
35:17And yes, I say it again. And I say it with utmost, I'm saying this with the utmost responsibility,
35:21I'm saying this in Hindi and in English. That yes, Rahul Gandhi is the poster boy of Pakistan.
35:27My only request to both my guests is then it's name calling on either side. He will say something
35:32about the prime minister. You will say something about the leader of the opposition.
35:34No, you cannot. The prime minister... The only person who benefits out of this
35:38is either Xi Jinping or Asim Munir. Why would we do that? Why can't India present a united face
35:43facing these expansionists? I'm sorry, we cannot present a united face when the leader of opposition
35:48decides to quote a magazine article of an unpublished book. What is the guarantee that that was written
35:53in the book that he's citing? Was it there on record? What is the guarantee that what Caravan says
35:58is correct? How can you mislead the nation? He has misled the floor. The nation
36:02on the floor of parliament unlimited times. He cannot go on misleading the country.
36:13Why does not he talk about the papers that he signed with China, which was from the country?
36:17What was written in that document that he was signing away with China? You cannot continue
36:21misleading the nation. And yes, Jinping, all for that matter, Pakistan are having a good time
36:28because they know that the leader of opposition is going to take that side. He does not believe
36:31Mr. Prime Minister. The Prime Minister has never gone and said that we have to give it to you. When did
36:37the Bharatya Janta Party refuse to believe the chief of army, the chief of navy and the chief of air force? I would like to...
36:42Mr. Ajay Kumar, you want to respond? Dr. Ajay Kumar wants to respond to you because Dr. Kumar,
36:47you've served in the government. You've worn the uniform. You know, even if we were to...
36:52Gaurav, his own MP laughed at him today. The speaker had to intervene and said, how can you laugh at your own member of
36:57parliament when he said, I'm trying to talk about natural security? That's how serious the Congress
37:00party takes Rahul Gaurav himself.
37:02You know, but my question to Dr. Ajay Kumar is, so the chief reached out, if that is to be believed, if that is really true, he reached out to the government.
37:11There was some, according to him, a delay in response. But does the government give a, you know,
37:18knee-jerk response to such a grave, you know, situation? Aren't inputs taken from multiple people?
37:24I've been speaking to my sources in the government, and they say that for an informed decision, inputs are taken from multiple elements,
37:32not just one person. And did, ultimately, did India buckle under pressure?
37:37There was eyeball-to-eyeball confrontation with China. It was China that disengaged first, sir, in that QPQ, and those images were released.
37:44Yes, sir. So, first question. Calmly. Radhika ji, the BJP and RSS had a meeting with the communists, with the Chinese recently.
37:53What is this pseudo-Hinduism, pseudo-nationalism of the Bhatia Janata Party?
37:58The total, you will find out every way to oppress the 90% of the population of the people in this country, which includes ST, SC, OBC, and minority.
38:09But leave that aside. You had a meeting with the Chinese, and you are the, I would say, no name-calling.
38:15But the way these guys are proceeding, they should be the poster boys for the Chinese.
38:18They banned all the apps when the Chinese attacked. Now they're doing the biggest trade deal with China.
38:24So, let's not get into the zeeping. I think Mr. Modi should be the poster boy, the BJP should be the poster boy for every anti-Dibatia Janata Party.
38:33Should stop lying. They had a meeting with the Communist Party, with the Communist Party recently.
38:38What did you not say about Raul Gandhi when he met, when the Chinese ambassador met him?
38:42You had an official meeting with the Chinese, and then you have the courage to say this kind of statement, the second part.
38:48But, you know, the facts on the ground, of course, complete your point, sir.
38:53Yes, sir.
38:53Answering your question. The chief in his article, the chief has not said I have not written it.
38:59So, Radhika ji, please ask the chief to publicly say he has not written it, and we will face the consequence of it.
39:06The chief has not said he has not written that. First point.
39:09The second point.
39:09Under what capacity was this time for Raul Gandhi?
39:12Radhika ji, I didn't interrupt.
39:13Radhika ji, Radhika ji.
39:14Radhika ji, Radhika ji, please sell out.
39:16One sec.
39:16One sec.
39:17One sec.
39:17One sec.
39:17One sec.
39:17One sec.
39:19One sec.
39:20Only Dr. Ajay Kumar, because last 30 seconds, I have to bring in General Rakesh Sharma also into this conversation for a non-political perspective on the situation.
39:28You know, Dr. Kumar.
39:29So, in the, if you look, it's the most shameful abdication of leadership.
39:35The general kept asking, the chief of Indian army, because it would have been declaring war on China.
39:41Why didn't you call the cabinet committee for security?
39:44And why do you keep dindor of petoing?
39:46With bala coat, you'll go on TV and say, we have done this, we have called a meeting.
39:50Okay.
39:51But when it comes to China...
39:52Sir, give me a moment.
39:52I want to quickly bring in General Rakesh Sharma.
39:55Sir, you've commanded the Ladakh Corps.
39:57Your impression of this current controversy, was the government, in your view, you know,
40:02unwilling to give clear instructions to Deedain Army chief.
40:06Only General Rakesh Sharma, for a moment, please.
40:10Thank you, Gaurav, for inviting me.
40:13Firstly, I would say that this is a very painful and a distressing debate that's happening.
40:17Not now, through the day.
40:20The fact of the matter is that there is nothing.
40:24The troops in contact then are all serving today.
40:27They actually know what happened.
40:29The formation commanders know what happened.
40:31And they would be listening on.
40:33There are troops in contact today also, sitting across the same borders.
40:37And we are now discussing issues which are, you know,
40:41pretty painful across to many people who did something.
40:44Second is that there is also a question of a whole lot of conjecturing.
40:49The book is not out.
40:51The book is not in the open domain.
40:53And we do not know what exactly is written in the book.
40:55The book may get redacted by the time it comes out.
40:58It's a separate issue altogether.
41:00But the fact is, what is the truth?
41:02The truth exactly is not even come out because there are operational reports
41:07which have been buried into in that manner, which will not be out.
41:11So does this debate actually weaken India's position
41:14when internal processes and impressions come out in public domain?
41:18Does that give China an advantage into our thinking or our perceptions?
41:23Look, I'll take a step back on your question.
41:28You have a valid question that you asked.
41:29The point is that the Quid Pro Co was planned over a period of time.
41:35The troops trained for it.
41:36They went over a hundred kilometer frontier.
41:39It is not this R22 Rezangla, Rezangla.
41:42It is from Anila Kula, which is well on top of...
41:44So this was a very major operation, about two-division operation.
41:48Not four tanks and not 14 tanks.
41:51Large operation was carried out.
41:53We must salute the people who did it at that height.
41:55First part.
41:56Absolutely.
41:57Second.
41:58You know, when we started debating from 15th of June onwards,
42:02and we have all been debating,
42:04there was a thought process of rules of engagement.
42:08So what are the rules of engagement?
42:09Why didn't we fire at Galwan, et cetera, et cetera?
42:12Here also is part of this operation being carried out.
42:15Certain rules of engagement must have been disseminated.
42:18Firstly, the operation would have been discussed in the CSG level.
42:22As the CSG China Study Group,
42:23they would have approved this operation.
42:25Certain kind of contingencies would have been worked out in the CSG.
42:29Certain rules of engagement would have been disseminated across.
42:32The Scotland commander, who was ordered to go on 29th night,
42:36with 14 tanks to these two passes,
42:38would have asked a logical question.
42:40What is my opinion?
42:41What do I go there?
42:42I'll just wait.
42:43So his orders would have been clear.
42:44Otherwise, the Scotland commander is not worth his beans.
42:47And he would have done it.
42:48Maybe he fired a shot.
42:50Maybe he gave a warning shot.
42:53Or an illuminating round.
42:54Ills were fired.
42:56Illuminating rounds were fired.
42:57General, I've run out of time on this part of the show.
42:59I want to thank you.
43:00The ICC gave Pakistan the long rope.
43:04Pakistan hasn't responded to the ICC.
43:06Is the message very clear from ICC to Pakistan?
43:10You cannot pick and choose matches in a global tournament.
43:13If Pakistan does go ahead with selective participation and boycott,
43:19could Pakistan face serious sanctions?
43:21From loss of hosting rights to isolation,
43:25perhaps even a hit on its $34 million?
43:27And will ICC revenue share?
43:31Nikhil Nas and Vikrant Gupta get you more in this report.
43:36India versus Pakistan.
43:47Cricket's biggest rivalry.
43:49But now, the fate of the match,
43:51scheduled for February 15 in Sri Lanka,
43:54hangs in the balance.
43:56Pakistan has refused to play against India
43:58in the T20 World Cup.
44:00In an unprecedented move,
44:04the Pakistani government confirmed its participation
44:07in the T20 World Cup 2026,
44:10but announced that it will boycott its group stage match
44:13against arch-rivals India.
44:16On the other hand,
44:17Team India is all set for the match.
44:20India Today inside Scoop reveals
44:22that Team India will go ahead
44:24with the pre-match press conference
44:25and continue practice exactly as scheduled.
44:30The squad will travel to Sri Lanka on time
44:32and follow every step laid down
44:34by the tournament guidelines.
44:37However,
44:38the BCCI is awaiting the final decision
44:40of the ICC.
44:42The ball is now
44:58in International Cricket Council's court.
45:01The ICC is expected to call a board meeting
45:03to discuss Pakistan's threat.
45:05Meanwhile,
45:07ICC is also considering action against Pakistan.
45:12If the boycott row escalates,
45:14ICC can tighten Pakistan's bilateral calendars,
45:18limiting future cricketing engagements.
45:21ICC can also make it harder
45:23for foreign players
45:24to receive clearances
45:26to participate in the Pakistan Super League.
45:29Pakistan may even lose hosting rights
45:31for future ICC tournaments.
45:35Once again,
45:36this controversy
45:37has given opposition
45:38fresh ammunition
45:39to corner the government
45:40over sporting ties
45:42with Pakistan.
45:43The PCP has done
45:45the face of the BCCI.
45:47The country was hoping
45:48that the BCCI
45:49had a stance
45:50and the BCCI
45:51showed that
45:52the penalty,
45:52venalty,
45:53sporting commitments
45:54are all one way
45:54and the country's power.
45:56Tell me,
45:57why are you not giving the answer
45:58to Pakistan?
45:59Pakistan is
46:00a message
46:01and you don't have to answer
46:02to your answer.
46:03There is no more
46:04an India park match
46:17is the biggest money spinner in cricket
46:20with TV advertisement revenue of Rs. 150 to Rs. 180 crores,
46:25digital advertisement revenue of Rs. 100 to Rs. 150 crores
46:29and up to Rs. 50 crore TV and digital viewership.
46:33Bureau Report, India Today.
46:38So what's the thinking in the ICC?
46:41Joining me with the latest is my colleague Nikhil Naz.
46:45Nikhil, what are you picking up?
46:47Both at the ICC end and Pakistan end.
46:51You know, does it appear that Pakistan
46:53is actually cutting its nose to spite its face?
46:58Well, Gaurav, I couldn't have thought of a better phrase
47:01to actually say what's happening right now
47:04than the one that you've just quoted.
47:06Because no matter which way you look at this entire fiasco,
47:10there's nothing that's going in Pakistan's favour.
47:13I think the only thing where they're hedging their bets on
47:16is that they might get some geopolitical benefit
47:20because they're extending a hand of friendship towards Bangladesh.
47:23I know on that front, and you're an expert on that,
47:26I think they've put all their eggs in the same basket,
47:28hoping that it will be the Mohammed Yunus government
47:30that will come to power in Bangladesh.
47:32So I think that's where they're going with this,
47:35because oftentimes I'm hearing a lot of people talk about this entire decision
47:39that has been taken by Pakistan as one, taken by the Pakistani government,
47:43and maybe the Pakistan cricket board may not be on the same page.
47:46I'd like to remind them the Pakistani government
47:49and Pakistan cricket board is, you know, de facto the same person,
47:53because the head of the Pakistan cricket board
47:55is also the interior minister of the country.
47:57So definitely they're on the same page taking this call.
48:00And then if you look at it, as I said, from any point,
48:02let's take a look at it from a cricketing perspective.
48:05What benefit is Pakistan going to get?
48:07None at all.
48:08What are the harms that Pakistan will have to deal with?
48:11Well, I can list a lot.
48:12Firstly, they're definitely looking at sanctions from the ICC,
48:16because they've not only taken the might of Board of Control for Cricket in India,
48:21the strongest board,
48:22but they've actually taken the rest of the cricketing world head on.
48:25Because what they are complaining at the moment
48:28and the reason they are not playing the India encounter
48:30is because of a third party, which is now Bangladesh,
48:33where they say that, listen, you have been unfair to Bangladesh
48:36by not allowing them to get that hybrid model
48:39that Pakistan and India avail the benefit of.
48:42So this is what they are coming up with.
48:45But they forget that this call wasn't taken by India alone.
48:48This call was taken by the rest of the cricketing world.
48:5114-2 was the voting that happened.
48:53And so Cricket Australia was part of that decision.
48:56England was part of that decision.
48:57West Indies, New Zealand, everyone was part of that decision.
49:01What does that do?
49:02That actually now isolates Pakistan.
49:05Not only will ICC now relook going forward
49:08Pakistan's participation in ICC tournament,
49:11not only would ICC put heavy financial penalties on Pakistan,
49:16because them not playing the India game,
49:18for which they've signed on the dotted line,
49:20will affect ICC's revenue.
49:21So someone will have to pay, I'd seem it could be Pakistan.
49:24And then even bilateral relations, PSL,
49:27all these other properties are going to be affected
49:29because they can't be participating in bilateral cricket and PSL on their own.
49:34Someone will have to pay.
49:34The rest of the cricketing world.
49:35So on all front, to think of another phrase,
49:39maybe what?
49:40They've dug their own graves,
49:42shot themselves in the foot,
49:44anyone that you like.
49:45Okay, so they've shot themselves in the foot,
49:48the Pakistani cricket board and their interior minister.
49:51But can Pakistan, since you mentioned PSL,
49:53can Pakistan sustain, you know,
49:56its PSL or its cricket minus ICC and BCCI?
50:01What happens if others board are also,
50:04you know, they decide to avoid Pakistan?
50:09The short answer is no.
50:11I'm just going to quickly rattle off some numbers.
50:14600 million is the yearly revenue of the ICC.
50:17India get a lion's share,
50:19so they should,
50:19because they get 80% of that revenue on the table.
50:22They get about 260 million from that 600, right?
50:26Pakistan, on the other hand,
50:27get about 50, 55,
50:29about 30, 35 million from the ICCKT.
50:32Now, many might say,
50:34India 260, Pakistan only 35.
50:37So Pakistan has done well to hurt India,
50:39because India is losing out on about 260 million.
50:43Well, now you have to read the fine print.
50:45India may be losing out on that 260,
50:48not entirely that amount.
50:49India, Pakistan will be 40%.
50:50But even if you look at that entire revenue,
50:53India's total revenue per year is 2.5 billion.
50:57260 odd million is about 10% of that.
51:00So where are you hitting India?
51:0210% of the revenue.
51:03Pakistan, on the other hand,
51:0535 million that they get from the ICCKT,
51:07that's 70% of their yearly revenue,
51:10of which they get about 55 million.
51:12So that the devil lies in the detail.
51:15A 10% loss for India
51:17versus a 70% loss
51:19for Pakistan cricket board
51:21should it continue to push ahead?
51:23Or can Pakistan still backtrack?
51:26We'll be tracking that story very closely,
51:28because Pakistan does whatever it may want to do,
51:31and it'll find an excuse to justify it.
51:34Should it back out?
51:35Then, of course,
51:36India has a golden opportunity
51:37to ensure that Pakistan
51:39is no longer a part of the cricket playing world,
51:42should other boards also be on board,
51:44and we'll be tracking that story very closely.
51:45That is all I have for you
51:46on India First this evening.
51:48Many thanks for watching.
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