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Acclaimed documentarian Deeyah Khan travels across the United States to explore the dehumanising effects of war and its long-term social impact on America and beyond.
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00:00:00so what was the very first time very first time I killed someone it was um just turned 18 I was
00:00:11in Iraq on a 50 cow machine gun and this guy was the back of his trunk of his car was filled with
00:00:17uh explosives so I laid down on it and put about nine bullets nine to twelve rounds into the hood
00:00:25of his car and then he kind of ran into that when he opened up the car door he spilled out there
00:00:31wasn't a person there was just a puddle of like like jello and I had a dream that night that he
00:00:39was my ceiling fan so his head was the where the light bulb would be and his arms and legs were the
00:00:45blades of the fan and I watched him spin faster and faster until the velocity increased and then
00:00:51he tore apart and covered me in my room with like blood and guts and stuff and then I woke up
00:00:58for two decades America's men and women fought what's known as the war on terror
00:01:12it's godlike honestly it becomes godlike it's it's even if you say you don't get that way you do
00:01:20I didn't pause and think and I didn't question anything for a while
00:01:26but I lost me I lost humanity I lost empathy and compassion
00:01:34the average human being isn't wired to be able to commit that much violence over and over and over
00:01:46again without messing you up not being able to address hostility directed against me with instant
00:01:56violence is that's something I will struggle with for the rest of my life the veteran issue is now a
00:02:05major social problem in America alcoholism drug dependency homelessness and suicides are rife
00:02:16he was completely broken in every way and he didn't want to be here nearly 25 years after those
00:02:26walls began veterans are coming forward to tell the truth of what they did I want to kill myself because I
00:02:34took part and I did things in Iraq that I can't justify and to face the people they once victimized and
00:02:46brutalized I turned into a sadist you know I became sadistic and gleeful at the thought of the torture of
00:02:54others we're keeping people from going to hospitals stopping ambulances with pregnant women about to
00:03:02deliver killing families at traffic control points the killing for for fun the gratification the
00:03:11satisfaction the the joy that came from hurting and humiliating us where did that come from or was it
00:03:17just the job was necessary within the confines of our mission that innocent people get killed
00:03:26we were extremely violent with those people for no reason whatsoever other than our own feeling of
00:03:38superiority and power my name is Nicholas Irving served in the 75th Ranger Regiment 3rd Ranger Battalion and I was a
00:03:55special operations sniper like the closest person I've ever shot with the sniper rifle was like 20 feet away
00:04:03then my furthest was half a mile I liked it further away I did because this is going to sound weird but at the
00:04:16time it was just the way I guess the body dropped it intrigued me a little bit yeah
00:04:23Nick was credited with 33 kills in a four-month period he tells me he came to see the enemy as merely targets
00:04:41I was taught we all are that they don't really they're not people they're like animals and they don't think the way that we
00:04:48think and because they didn't have the same traditions and values as Americans that they don't really they
00:04:54don't matter because once you see a human or understand that it's an actual human being on the
00:04:59other side of that bullet I think there's a little hesitation to be honest
00:05:05the lead-up to the kill was like a big rush the kill was even more satisfying but
00:05:18a minute after that I had put go on this like downward spiral spiral of emotion like sadness a
00:05:26little bit remorseful regret I've come close to crying in front of one of my guys and now it's only
00:05:32because I could hear his mom crying I had shot her son he was running he had a vest on a explosive vest
00:05:42like I shot him when he was running away and it went in the back of his shoulder and popped out
00:05:49his chest and I knew for a fact she knew what happened when she heard the shot though because
00:05:54as soon as she heard the shot she cried soon thereafter that this weird scream scream oh yeah
00:06:02blood-curdling it was almost like she got shot scream yeah never forget it I won't forget that scream and I
00:06:10won't forget what he looked like his eyes and his chest that's where I think it started to maybe I
00:06:21made a connection between a human life and it's not just a target anymore I made that connection of
00:06:29wow these people have families too and they're not like we've been taught they don't have like emotion or
00:06:36they don't really care or they're not people they're just targets you know bad people but
00:06:43hearing a mom cry was totally different because that's what my mom would probably sound like yeah
00:06:48Nick left the military in 2010 unable to leave his experiences behind he says he fell into alcoholism and
00:07:01depression it tears families apart it tears people apart because you're not the same when you come
00:07:11back you affect everybody who loves you since the 9-11 attacks America has trained over 4 million men
00:07:22and women to serve in the military target up to one in five have now been diagnosed with PTSD
00:07:31and I was like 23 Tom Satterley was a highly decorated special forces soldier who fought in Iraq and Afghanistan
00:07:43Silver Star
00:07:43he's kept some of his letters home I have lived and seen more places and people of all types
00:07:52and I've seen life and I've seen death
00:07:56that was a different me
00:08:01in the wake of the invasion of Iraq in 2003 soldiers like Tom was sent on kill or capture missions to detain suspected insurgents or former regime members
00:08:19it often involved raiding homes bursting in on families in search of suspects
00:08:29I've had to deal with children after either arresting or detaining or you know
00:08:37their dad or killing their dad and dealing with the children
00:08:41or a mother
00:08:49in a kitchen whose house you just came into
00:08:53whose son ran up the stairs with a gun and aimed it at the people at the front door
00:08:58because you were coming in the side door at the same time
00:09:01protecting their home
00:09:03of course I can't let you
00:09:06or I didn't but a friend of me
00:09:08and mine in front of me couldn't let them shoot someone in the front door
00:09:12so they shot this kid who dropped the gun and ran upstairs and shut his bedroom door
00:09:16and I immediately followed upstairs
00:09:20with the medic
00:09:23opened the door and he's dead already
00:09:24there's you know he's dead already
00:09:25I said do what you can
00:09:27I'll keep mom downstairs
00:09:30so we do our business clear the house nothing
00:09:32there's nothing there
00:09:36moms ask me but you know where's my boy boy boy boy boy you know
00:09:40it's fine it's fine you know all right we're gonna leave
00:09:42and we left and then I could hear her screaming
00:09:49as we walk away
00:09:53it devastates you you know
00:09:56then it eats you up for years after that
00:09:58after missions they would drink
00:10:02heavily
00:10:03when we get back we'll just get drunk and talk about it it's okay
00:10:07you know and a lot of it was lies
00:10:09you know about how you felt about it
00:10:12like what
00:10:13just acting like it didn't bother you
00:10:15you have to demonize the enemy
00:10:18and demoralize them to able to take a life
00:10:20but if I demonize you you know the skinnies
00:10:24the sammies whatever you call them we've named people to to demonize them
00:10:29and humiliate them so it's not as hard to take a life or to hate them
00:10:37like so many veterans
00:10:39Tom says he experienced suicidal feelings
00:10:42how long have you been suicidal
00:10:4910 years
00:10:5312
00:10:55do you still think about it
00:11:02yeah
00:11:04not like I did
00:11:13I've spent two years traveling America talking to veterans
00:11:23their memories of traumatic events may have blurred or fragmented
00:11:29some have suffered addictions or brain injuries
00:11:35with the passage of time
00:11:40and the chaos of war
00:11:41it can sometimes be hard to verify their stories
00:11:45but most of them told me the same thing
00:11:50they thought they were going out to catch terrorists
00:11:54and win the hearts and minds of the local population
00:11:57they soon found themselves in a staggeringly violent conflict
00:12:04fought against elusive enemies
00:12:06in packed cities full of civilians and children
00:12:10Camilo Mejia went to Iraq as a staff sergeant in 2003
00:12:22hoping to help a country rebuild
00:12:24a turning point was the day he and his fellow soldiers
00:12:29policed an anti-american protest in the city of Ramadi
00:12:33you could tell when they were going to throw a grenade
00:12:37because the crowd would go quiet
00:12:39proudly anticipating where the grenade would go
00:12:43and so in one of those instances we saw this young man
00:12:46emerge from the crowd you know with a grenade in his hand
00:12:51and then he drew his arm back to throw it
00:12:53and then we shot him
00:12:54and you know
00:12:56for me it was like a before and after
00:12:59that moment
00:13:00because I felt like this
00:13:02emptiness
00:13:06we took something we could never give back
00:13:14and it was like it was taken from me
00:13:20it was a part of me that
00:13:23died
00:13:26that day
00:13:29with that young man
00:13:31Camilo refused to return to Iraq
00:13:39for his next tour in 2004
00:13:41on moral grounds
00:13:42saying he had witnessed civilians being killed
00:13:45he was sentenced to a year in prison for desertion
00:13:49after he was released
00:13:52he became a protester against the war
00:13:54working with fellow veterans
00:13:56a lot of people commit suicide
00:13:58and I think that's why a lot of people
00:14:00find it incredibly difficult to
00:14:04to come home and be a part of society again
00:14:07because we continue to try to
00:14:09find that person that we were
00:14:11or somehow conciliate that person that we were
00:14:14with the person we became
00:14:15there have been an estimated 30,000 suicides
00:14:22of post 9-11 US veterans
00:14:24four times
00:14:26more than the number killed
00:14:28on the battlefield
00:14:28a study released in 2022
00:14:33said millions of veterans struggle
00:14:35with substance use disorder
00:14:37and mental illness
00:14:38army officer Garrett Cathcart
00:14:45served in both Iraq and Afghanistan
00:14:48in the early days of the war
00:14:52before they had a card deck for the most wanted
00:14:56so that's how they tell you how to find the bad guys
00:14:59ace of spades, Saddam
00:15:01shrapnel that I got blown up by in Iraq
00:15:03that somehow made it through all the years
00:15:07bayonet from the Iraqi army
00:15:11for soldiers like Garrett
00:15:17the fall of Kabul in 2021
00:15:20and the failures of the war in Iraq
00:15:23have made coming to terms with their memories
00:15:25even harder
00:15:26young Afghan girls had hope for a generation
00:15:3420 years
00:15:35but now what?
00:15:37it's been taken away
00:15:38Iraq is now an Iranian proxy state
00:15:41Afghanistan is controlled by the Taliban
00:15:43so was it worth it?
00:15:51Garrett served during a period of intense fighting in Iraq in 2006 and 2007
00:15:57just the violence and being steeped in it was
00:16:02if you're not careful
00:16:04you can lose a part of yourself to that
00:16:06right?
00:16:07and it's hard to come back
00:16:08did you?
00:16:13we lost 20 of my
00:16:1422 of my classmates
00:16:15in the class 2004
00:16:16one of my best friends
00:16:19he was killed
00:16:20so
00:16:20I hope I didn't lose a piece of myself
00:16:24it certainly changed me
00:16:25he informed me
00:16:27yeah
00:16:28whew
00:16:30soldiers like Garrett
00:16:36will regularly ask to take instant decisions
00:16:38in the chaos of the moment
00:16:40with civilians all around them
00:16:43the hard times are
00:16:47when a car is rushing a checkpoint
00:16:49is it a bad guy
00:16:50or is it someone trying to take their wife to the hospital
00:16:52you've got 30 seconds to decide
00:16:5410 seconds to decide
00:16:55right?
00:16:55and so
00:16:55we're putting young soldiers in positions
00:16:58to make decisions that they'll live with the rest of our lives
00:17:01when we shoot mortars
00:17:03and as a commander later in Afghanistan
00:17:05when I'm releasing coordinates from my aircraft
00:17:06J-DAM
00:17:072,000 pound bombs
00:17:08and you're hitting things
00:17:09there's bad people who have questions
00:17:11shooting you from those buildings
00:17:12but what you think about later
00:17:13who else is in those buildings?
00:17:16thank god no civilian casualties
00:17:17but
00:17:17I've had friends that have
00:17:19and they live with that
00:17:20right?
00:17:21Garrett also took part in home raids
00:17:29on the human side
00:17:32even if the guy is legit al-qaeda
00:17:35bomb maker
00:17:36his two-year-old
00:17:37three-year-old kid
00:17:38doesn't know that
00:17:39they have kids and wives
00:17:42who are screaming and crying
00:17:43you're stacking on a door
00:17:43and preaching with
00:17:44a shotgun or explosives
00:17:46what do you do?
00:17:48maybe he's a bad guy
00:17:48maybe he's not
00:17:49I don't know
00:17:49I get told he's a bad guy
00:17:51and you gotta go get him
00:17:52part of war frankly
00:17:55and seeing kids that are hurt
00:17:56that's hard right?
00:17:58sorry
00:17:58that stays with you
00:18:01yeah
00:18:04I think when you hurt other people
00:18:06and you do it professionally
00:18:08for a long time
00:18:09it hurts right?
00:18:11Garrett now runs a charity
00:18:17which helps veterans
00:18:19connect with local communities
00:18:20but like many soldiers
00:18:23he struggles
00:18:24with the complex moral implications
00:18:27of the wars he fought
00:18:28what's that?
00:18:31do you think you're good?
00:18:34you're like a philosophy
00:18:35I don't know
00:18:38I hope I am
00:18:39I try to be
00:18:40many people made decisions
00:18:42myself included
00:18:42where people were hurt and killed
00:18:43was that good?
00:18:44was that bad?
00:18:46can I find redemption
00:18:47from those experiences?
00:18:48I mean these are the questions
00:18:49I ask myself
00:18:51and as do others
00:18:52I mean that is
00:18:53I think the central core question
00:18:55am I good?
00:18:57I want to be
00:18:58yeah
00:18:58am I?
00:18:59I don't know
00:19:00I don't know
00:19:02oof
00:19:05many veterans I spoke to
00:19:17say war turned them
00:19:18into a completely
00:19:19different person
00:19:20one
00:19:22they didn't recognize
00:19:24in 2006
00:19:29Matthew Ho was sent
00:19:31to Iraq's Al-Ambar province
00:19:33as a marine company commander
00:19:35at the height
00:19:35of a brutal fight
00:19:37against Al-Qaeda
00:19:37every day
00:19:41something was happening
00:19:43there was
00:19:44IED attacks
00:19:45RPG attacks
00:19:46complex ambushes
00:19:48you're going out
00:19:50and you're hunting people
00:19:51and other people
00:19:52are hunting you
00:19:53and that was enough
00:19:54for me though
00:19:54to regress
00:19:56into the most primal
00:19:58aspects of who I was
00:19:59and in order
00:20:00for your survival
00:20:01you have to kill
00:20:02you have to punish
00:20:03you have to seek vengeance
00:20:04everything that
00:20:05conditioned you
00:20:06led you to be
00:20:07the person you are
00:20:08is gone
00:20:09you and you're
00:20:10the one who destroyed it
00:20:11all this narrative
00:20:13about who you are
00:20:14it's been debased
00:20:16it's been defiled
00:20:17by your actions
00:20:18a particular moment
00:20:22that haunts Matthew
00:20:23was a marine
00:20:24regimental meeting
00:20:25he took part in
00:20:26in 2006
00:20:28about a new policy
00:20:29for dealing
00:20:30with the dead
00:20:31I was the
00:20:34combat engineer
00:20:35officer for my regiment
00:20:36and so beneath
00:20:38regiments are battalions
00:20:39the battalion
00:20:40up in
00:20:42it's called the Triad
00:20:44which includes Haditha
00:20:45said
00:20:46our marines
00:20:48want us
00:20:49to
00:20:49not let the families
00:20:51take the bodies
00:20:52of the insurgents
00:20:54of the resistance
00:20:55off the street
00:20:55we want
00:20:56the dogs to eat them
00:20:58and the battalion
00:20:59wouldn't make that decision
00:21:00and so I came up
00:21:01to the regiment
00:21:02and as part of
00:21:04the regimental staff
00:21:05we voted on it
00:21:06and I raised my hand
00:21:08and I said
00:21:08yes let the dogs
00:21:09eat those kids
00:21:10that's all those guys were
00:21:11they were just kids
00:21:12just like our kids were
00:21:13they were fighting us
00:21:14because we were occupying
00:21:15yeah so I raised my hand
00:21:17to say
00:21:18yes we should
00:21:19keep the mothers
00:21:21from taking their sons
00:21:22off the street
00:21:22and let those dogs
00:21:24eat those boys
00:21:25in front of their moms
00:21:25come here
00:21:27Matthew doesn't know
00:21:30if the new policy
00:21:31was ever carried out
00:21:32by the marines
00:21:33but he's haunted
00:21:34by his response
00:21:35at the time
00:21:36at the time
00:21:39I felt it was
00:21:40entirely appropriate
00:21:41entirely justified
00:21:42I had my great
00:21:43misgivings about the war
00:21:45I didn't believe in
00:21:45and I thought
00:21:46it was futile
00:21:46I thought counterinsurgency
00:21:48was nonsense
00:21:49but
00:21:50this is who I was
00:21:51at that moment
00:21:51I wanted vengeance
00:21:53I wanted us to
00:21:55to
00:21:56lay the hammer down
00:21:58as you say
00:22:00but that's
00:22:01that's who you are
00:22:02that's what it makes you
00:22:04I've not forgiven myself
00:22:06for that
00:22:07for various things
00:22:09I did and took part
00:22:11and
00:22:11participated in
00:22:13saw done
00:22:14and that's how
00:22:15I think the difference
00:22:16for combat veterans is
00:22:17with
00:22:18so many other people
00:22:19in our society
00:22:20is that we were
00:22:21perpetrators
00:22:22and perpetrators
00:22:23yeah maybe you shot
00:22:24someone dead in the street
00:22:25maybe that was it
00:22:27or maybe you didn't
00:22:28do something
00:22:28we hear about PTSD a lot
00:22:31which certainly affects
00:22:32veterans
00:22:32but when you start talking
00:22:33about the moral injury
00:22:34and the psychological
00:22:35the emotional
00:22:36the spiritual consequences
00:22:37of war
00:22:38you have to get into
00:22:39what's called
00:22:39perpetrator induced
00:22:41traumatic stress
00:22:42which is
00:22:43you're the perpetrator
00:22:44you did something
00:22:46this idea
00:22:47addressing
00:22:47being perpetrators
00:22:49is very
00:22:49politically
00:22:50difficult
00:22:51the reason why
00:22:53our veterans
00:22:54are putting guns
00:22:54in their mouth
00:22:55and blowing the back
00:22:55of their heads off
00:22:56is because they did
00:22:57see anything in Iraq
00:22:58and Afghanistan
00:22:59that they are ashamed
00:23:00of
00:23:00their regret
00:23:02that they feel guilty
00:23:03for
00:23:03Congress isn't going
00:23:06to allow that
00:23:07American media
00:23:08certainly isn't going
00:23:09to talk about that
00:23:10I'm traveling across America
00:23:31speaking to veterans
00:23:33haunted by their past
00:23:35recent years
00:23:39have seen the rise
00:23:40of organizations
00:23:41run by veterans
00:23:42themselves
00:23:42to try to help
00:23:43each other
00:23:44organizations
00:23:46such as A Hero
00:23:47based on a farm
00:23:48in Alabama
00:23:49at A Hero
00:24:02veterans can hunt
00:24:04and practice shooting
00:24:05or just hang out
00:24:07it's run by Lee
00:24:11a former marine senior officer
00:24:13who's had his own fight
00:24:15against PTSD
00:24:16and suicidal thoughts
00:24:17along with his wife
00:24:19Tamar
00:24:19he's turned part
00:24:22of the farmland
00:24:23into a memorial
00:24:24to fallen comrades
00:24:26all of the property
00:24:28is dedicated
00:24:29to a veteran
00:24:30and a lot of the family members
00:24:32get to pick that spot
00:24:33to where
00:24:34their loved one
00:24:35can never be forgotten
00:24:37and so this whole place
00:24:39is hollow ground for us
00:24:40and we've been able
00:24:41to dedicate this place
00:24:42to a lot of heroes
00:24:42Lee opens up his farm
00:24:47to any veteran
00:24:48who wants to socialize
00:24:50relax
00:24:50and talk about
00:24:52the difficulties
00:24:52they've experienced
00:24:54after leaving the military
00:24:55like anger keeps us safe
00:24:59so like all the negative emotions
00:25:01we feel as guys
00:25:02our depression
00:25:03our sadness
00:25:04our anxiety
00:25:05our grief
00:25:06like just be mad
00:25:07just be mad at it
00:25:08right
00:25:09when was it that you
00:25:10got involved with Lee
00:25:12it was about
00:25:13four years ago now
00:25:14yeah
00:25:14about four years ago
00:25:15I was sitting in the closet
00:25:17with a gun
00:25:19and I was just
00:25:20contemplating
00:25:21suicide
00:25:23you know
00:25:23there's a lot of
00:25:25a lot of bad thoughts
00:25:26if I just pull this trigger
00:25:30I think it's gonna go away
00:25:31I don't know
00:25:34and reached out to Lee
00:25:37and this place
00:25:38saved my life
00:25:39man
00:25:39plain and simple
00:25:40some veterans
00:25:49yearn for the simplicity
00:25:51of their military days
00:25:52Ed is a former
00:25:56marine lieutenant colonel
00:25:57who fought in Afghanistan
00:25:59and Iraq
00:26:00really I loved being in battle
00:26:05I soaked it up
00:26:08I loved it so much
00:26:09that coming back
00:26:10to the real world
00:26:12where you could not solve
00:26:13your problems with violence
00:26:15was difficult for me
00:26:17did you find violence easy
00:26:19is that what you're trying to say
00:26:20I did
00:26:21yeah
00:26:21I absolutely did
00:26:22going and fighting
00:26:29against your enemies
00:26:30is
00:26:32a fundamental
00:26:34primordial
00:26:37atavistic
00:26:39part of what being a man is
00:26:44what you're doing
00:26:46when you break through
00:26:47the inhibitions against
00:26:49violence that our society
00:26:51imposes
00:26:51is not tearing away
00:26:53a natural part of yourself
00:26:55it's tearing away barriers
00:26:57that have been
00:26:57artificially imposed
00:26:59by the society
00:27:01that you've grown up in
00:27:02and once you've done that
00:27:05the violence itself
00:27:07is a deeply natural thing to do
00:27:11Chris served in Afghanistan
00:27:16in 2008
00:27:18he says that becoming
00:27:23immersed in the culture
00:27:24of the American military
00:27:25had a huge effect
00:27:27on his character
00:27:28especially
00:27:29the way he saw
00:27:31potential enemies
00:27:32when I first joined the army
00:27:34they were preparing us
00:27:36for the enemy
00:27:38we were going to face
00:27:39so
00:27:40when we got into the military
00:27:41the desensitization
00:27:43of like
00:27:44racism
00:27:45hate
00:27:45extremism
00:27:45happened
00:27:46immediately
00:27:47camel jockeys
00:27:49hodges
00:27:50I've heard
00:27:52drill sergeants
00:27:53and sergeant majors
00:27:54call them
00:27:55sand niggers
00:27:55like when you hear that
00:27:57it's supposed to do
00:27:58something to you
00:27:59because
00:27:59it did to me
00:28:00but then you just hear it
00:28:02you hear it
00:28:03you start to use that jargon
00:28:04it starts
00:28:05you start to
00:28:05unconsciously
00:28:06start to talk
00:28:07like the people
00:28:07you're around
00:28:08you know
00:28:09hodges might look like
00:28:10he's a good thing
00:28:11but trust me
00:28:12them camel jockeys
00:28:13bad boys man
00:28:14like they'll have
00:28:15a kid with a bomb
00:28:16strapped to them
00:28:17that was our language
00:28:18right
00:28:19we talked like that
00:28:20constantly
00:28:21and that's the way I was
00:28:22I was
00:28:22I was fucking evil
00:28:24mounting losses
00:28:27including the death
00:28:29of his best friend
00:28:30took a psychological
00:28:31toll on him
00:28:32it makes you angry
00:28:37it affected me
00:28:39you come home
00:28:41and you're so fucked up
00:28:42you need somebody to blame
00:28:43you gotta have somebody
00:28:46to blame
00:28:47because it just doesn't
00:28:48make sense
00:28:48if you don't have
00:28:49somebody to blame
00:28:49Chris says
00:28:55he left the army
00:28:56with a hatred
00:28:57for Muslims
00:28:58after spiraling
00:29:01into drink and drugs
00:29:02he was radicalized
00:29:04by white supremacists
00:29:05in 2015
00:29:09the BBC aired
00:29:11this documentary
00:29:12filmed with the KKK
00:29:13and it featured Chris
00:29:15who had become a member
00:29:16his revealing interview
00:29:18shows how he had embraced
00:29:20their extreme beliefs
00:29:21you're a white supremacist
00:29:23yeah absolutely
00:29:25I believe so
00:29:26yeah
00:29:26I believe we're God
00:29:27chosen people
00:29:27since this interview
00:29:31was filmed
00:29:31Chris says
00:29:33he's changed his views
00:29:34drastically
00:29:35you show me a kid
00:29:37that's pissed off
00:29:38and I'll make you
00:29:38an extremist
00:29:39out of him
00:29:40right
00:29:41I just need to know
00:29:42what he's pissed off about
00:29:44keep in mind
00:29:45that my rationale
00:29:46behind this
00:29:47was severely altered
00:29:48thinking
00:29:49because of chemical
00:29:49dependency
00:29:50anger
00:29:52trauma
00:29:52mental health
00:29:54but those three years
00:29:56like I did a lot
00:29:57a lot of bad things
00:29:59like what
00:29:59I don't want to talk
00:30:00about that
00:30:01and statute of limitations
00:30:02is seven years
00:30:03um
00:30:04what can you say
00:30:05I can just say
00:30:07that I wasn't a good person
00:30:08I wasn't a nice person
00:30:10concerns about extreme beliefs
00:30:16among veterans
00:30:17increased in 2021
00:30:19after the January 6th
00:30:20attacks on the Capitol building
00:30:22nearly one in five
00:30:25of those accused of crimes
00:30:26turned out to have served
00:30:28in the military
00:30:28according to one recent report
00:30:33a background in the U.S. military
00:30:35is now considered
00:30:36the single strongest predictor
00:30:38for committing a mass
00:30:39casualty terrorist atrocity
00:30:41Chris eventually
00:30:50renounced the KKK
00:30:51and now campaigns
00:30:53against extremism
00:30:54giving up my addiction
00:30:57to hatred and resentment
00:30:57was not any less challenging
00:30:59I wanted to blame others
00:31:00I wanted to remain
00:31:01an angry victim
00:31:02rather than take responsibility
00:31:03for my own actions
00:31:04I'm still trying to figure out
00:31:08who I am
00:31:08I like the person
00:31:10that I'm trying to become
00:31:11I like the idea
00:31:14of who I could be
00:31:16my purpose is just
00:31:18to prevent the next me
00:31:20before it gets to this point
00:31:22America today
00:31:38is bearing the burden
00:31:40of caring for its veterans
00:31:41the U.S. government
00:31:44spends nearly
00:31:45150 billion dollars a year
00:31:47on disability payments
00:31:49the Trump administration
00:31:52is reported to be planning
00:31:53to cut tens of thousands
00:31:55of jobs
00:31:56at the government department
00:31:57which helps look after veterans
00:31:59so there may be difficulties ahead
00:32:01veterans are more likely
00:32:08to get divorced
00:32:09and male veterans
00:32:11with PTSD
00:32:12are two to three times
00:32:14more likely
00:32:15to be abusive
00:32:15toward their partner
00:32:16I've been invited
00:32:24to another organization
00:32:26Homefront
00:32:27run by veterans
00:32:28for veterans
00:32:29200 former special forces operatives
00:32:33are here with their partners
00:32:35as they often bear
00:32:36the worst brunt
00:32:37the organizer of Homefront
00:32:43is former special forces soldier
00:32:46Tom Satterley
00:32:47and his wife Jen
00:32:49when I started working
00:32:53with Tom
00:32:53I said
00:32:54I think you might have
00:32:55this thing called PTSD
00:32:56I looked it up
00:32:57I googled it
00:32:582013 people didn't talk about it
00:33:01it wasn't discussed
00:33:02and he sure as heck
00:33:04was not going to admit it
00:33:05and so I started asking the guys
00:33:07what's lacking for you
00:33:09where do you need help
00:33:09where do you need support
00:33:10and 9 out of 10
00:33:13said the same thing to me
00:33:15which was
00:33:15I don't know how to be
00:33:17a better husband
00:33:18I don't know how to be
00:33:19a better father
00:33:20Tom and Jen have decided
00:33:28to talk openly
00:33:29about the devastating
00:33:30psychological aftermath
00:33:32of serving in the military
00:33:33in wartime
00:33:34so you felt unsafe with him
00:33:40many times
00:33:41I know Tom is one of the most highly trained people in the world
00:33:47and so there's this
00:33:49moment of realization
00:33:52this man can kill me
00:33:54in a moment of rage
00:33:55and he won't mean it
00:33:57this might be a blind rage moment
00:34:00where his training takes over
00:34:02and I'm not here anymore
00:34:03he would grab me
00:34:04he would shake me
00:34:05he would get into my face
00:34:07there's times where he's nearly headbutted me
00:34:10like just very dominant control
00:34:12and the next day he'll have no memory of it
00:34:15I encourage wives all the time
00:34:17that come forward
00:34:18and say
00:34:18hey I'm in this really dangerous situation
00:34:20it happens more than people know
00:34:24it happens more than the community
00:34:25will ever talk about
00:34:26you know people talk about
00:34:28the mental side of things
00:34:30spiritually he was completely broken
00:34:32completely broken
00:34:33believed that he was going to hell
00:34:35were you ever physically violent towards Jen?
00:34:42yeah
00:34:43I was
00:34:44I have been
00:34:48and uh
00:34:49you know
00:34:54if it wasn't for her understanding
00:34:55I would have killed myself
00:34:57for it
00:34:57if it wasn't for her understanding
00:34:58we wouldn't be together
00:34:59and her understanding of
00:35:03why I'm doing it
00:35:04not that it's okay
00:35:05we've been taught
00:35:08awarded and rewarded
00:35:09for being aggressive and violent
00:35:11our whole lives
00:35:11here's a medal for doing what you did
00:35:14you know
00:35:14so I'm just
00:35:15wandering around my whole life
00:35:17thinking that
00:35:18aggressive and violence
00:35:20dominate on top
00:35:21get a hold of the situation
00:35:22and then figure it out
00:35:23then we all calm down
00:35:24but first I have to be dominant
00:35:26and then the shame cycle starts
00:35:30of how much you hate yourself again
00:35:31I've been trained to
00:35:34fix or remove problems
00:35:36what's this problem
00:35:40what's the problem
00:35:41behavior
00:35:45improper behavior
00:35:51you're what
00:35:53you're what's wrong
00:35:55you know
00:35:58Jen says
00:36:05Jen says helping his fellow veterans
00:36:06has now changed Tom for the better
00:36:09he's now serving a greater purpose
00:36:12and a greater purpose
00:36:13than he even had in the military
00:36:15and it's completely changed his life
00:36:17it's completely brought him back to life
00:36:19it hasn't been easy
00:36:25it's been really tough
00:36:26but he's a fighter
00:36:28and he shows up every day fighting
00:36:31the wars on terror were a disaster
00:36:50for local populations
00:36:51it's been estimated
00:36:55that up to a quarter of a million civilians
00:36:57were killed in Iraq and Afghanistan
00:36:59hundreds of thousands more died indirectly
00:37:07due to the destruction of the economy
00:37:09the environment and health services
00:37:12over 10 million became refugees
00:37:16or were internally displaced
00:37:18most veterans I've spoken to
00:37:23say they'd never met an Afghan
00:37:25or Iraqi person since they served
00:37:27so I decide to arrange a meeting
00:37:32Matthew Ho fought with the marines
00:37:38in Al-Ambar province in Iraq
00:37:40Camilo Mejia fought in Iraq's Sunni triangle
00:37:46Seth and Curtis served in the same infantry company
00:37:50in one of the worst affected areas of the country
00:37:53Tal Afar
00:37:54both became vehicle commanders
00:37:59in charge of powerful striker
00:38:01armoured fighting vehicles
00:38:02like these
00:38:04they've all agreed to meet some Iraqi civilians
00:38:08whose lives were affected by the war
00:38:10Noor was 13 when the Americans invaded Baghdad in 2003
00:38:17one day neighbors came to her family's home
00:38:21they knocked on our door
00:38:24and they told my father that his cousin
00:38:27was found shot
00:38:29and he was shot by a sniper
00:38:34and he had just celebrated the birthday of his son
00:38:44one year old
00:38:49and as they laid his body in the front yard
00:38:52I remember my father was trying to pick up pieces of his brain
00:38:58to put it back in his head
00:39:00and then later on
00:39:04they brought the car
00:39:05where he was killed in
00:39:07to my house
00:39:09and it was a bag
00:39:13that had chips and candy
00:39:15for his little son
00:39:17that he bought him
00:39:22that he bought him
00:39:22he was trying to
00:39:30get his
00:39:31family to safety
00:39:33so why?
00:39:38my secretary
00:39:39my clinic
00:39:40his wife
00:39:42went out
00:39:44to bring some water
00:39:45and she ended up
00:39:48with a sniper shot
00:39:49in her head
00:39:50just because she was
00:39:51going out
00:39:52to bring water
00:39:53that's one example
00:40:02sorry
00:40:03American convoys
00:40:12traveling through hostile cities
00:40:14were subject to continual ambushes
00:40:16by insurgents
00:40:17these battles could be lethal
00:40:20for the surrounding population
00:40:22there was a period
00:40:25that I
00:40:25wasn't
00:40:26I
00:40:26I literally could not
00:40:28step out of the door
00:40:29out of fear of a
00:40:30of a car bomb
00:40:31or
00:40:33an IED
00:40:34or a suicide bomber
00:40:35and then
00:40:36the US army
00:40:38responding to that
00:40:39with raining down
00:40:40with bullets
00:40:41killing basically
00:40:42everyone in sight
00:40:43where there were the
00:40:45they called strikers
00:40:47the massive cars
00:40:48they ran over
00:40:49a civilian car
00:40:50and they were wrong side
00:40:52they came in wrong side
00:40:53and they were speeding
00:40:54and they did not stop
00:40:54and this happened
00:40:55in front of me
00:40:56I don't believe anyone
00:40:59survived in that car
00:41:00it started to become
00:41:05dangerous to be around
00:41:07the convoy
00:41:08because it could be
00:41:09targeted any minutes
00:41:10and they start shooting
00:41:11one day as we were
00:41:13leaving school
00:41:13I said goodbye
00:41:15to my best friend
00:41:16and she started walking
00:41:18towards the main street
00:41:19and I heard an explosion
00:41:21that's when the convoy
00:41:23was targeted
00:41:24by our school
00:41:25and the next thing
00:41:28I see is
00:41:29my friend fell
00:41:30to the ground
00:41:31she was hit
00:41:34by one of those
00:41:36stray bullets
00:41:37and next day
00:41:43I heard that she died
00:41:45as she was being
00:41:45transported to the hospital
00:41:47when they started shooting
00:41:50did they realize that
00:41:51some people
00:41:54their lives just changed
00:41:55forever that day
00:41:56some parents
00:41:58are going to sleep
00:41:59without their kids
00:42:00that night
00:42:00that's why I'm here today
00:42:06I just want to hear
00:42:07the other side
00:42:07of the story
00:42:09well
00:42:15thank you for sharing
00:42:19with us
00:42:20I think we're all
00:42:23infantry here
00:42:24we were the ones
00:42:28doing those things
00:42:28that you're talking about
00:42:29from traffic control points
00:42:33to
00:42:34convoy shooting
00:42:36at civilian vehicles
00:42:37to
00:42:38snipers
00:42:41killing people
00:42:41we were keeping people
00:42:44from going to hospitals
00:42:45stopping ambulances
00:42:48with pregnant women
00:42:50about to deliver
00:42:51killing families
00:42:54at traffic control points
00:42:55shooting up vehicles
00:42:58from caravans
00:42:59we did all of that
00:43:00all of that
00:43:01we were the ones
00:43:02who were called
00:43:03to do things like that
00:43:04and we were the ones
00:43:05who were called
00:43:05to
00:43:06support
00:43:07units
00:43:09that were doing
00:43:09things like that
00:43:10so when you were
00:43:15telling your stories
00:43:16you were
00:43:17in a way
00:43:18telling our stories
00:43:19too
00:43:20from the other side
00:43:22for us
00:43:24I guess
00:43:25there wasn't really
00:43:29a whole lot of
00:43:30morality
00:43:31or
00:43:32philosophical questioning
00:43:34involved in the act
00:43:34of killing
00:43:35we were so overwhelmed
00:43:38by
00:43:38the intensity
00:43:42of
00:43:43of being there
00:43:44every cigarette
00:43:47could be the last cigarette
00:43:48every
00:43:49drink of water
00:43:50could be the last drink
00:43:50of water
00:43:51every conversation
00:43:52could be the last
00:43:53conversation
00:43:53and so we didn't really
00:43:55spend a lot of time
00:43:57questioning
00:43:57what happened
00:43:58and whether this was
00:43:59a
00:44:00moral
00:44:01or a justified kill
00:44:03and then it occurred
00:44:06to me
00:44:07that the people
00:44:07who were killing
00:44:08were in a bad place
00:44:10and that their families
00:44:11were in a bad place
00:44:12and so I started
00:44:14praying for them
00:44:14and I started
00:44:15praying for
00:44:16the people
00:44:18who were fighting
00:44:19and their families
00:44:21and then I started
00:44:22praying for
00:44:23the end of war
00:44:25in
00:44:29in
00:44:30in
00:44:30Talifar
00:44:31we were
00:44:31outnumbered
00:44:32considerably
00:44:33when we were
00:44:34on the streets
00:44:34we demanded
00:44:35that people
00:44:36got out of the way
00:44:37and I would
00:44:38first fire a warning
00:44:40shot
00:44:40and then I would
00:44:41shoot a tire
00:44:42shoot the engine
00:44:43block
00:44:44and then
00:44:44shoot the driver
00:44:46sometimes I didn't
00:44:47always have time
00:44:48to
00:44:49go to that
00:44:50to go through
00:44:51those steps
00:44:52but we really
00:44:54didn't have
00:44:54enforced rules
00:44:56of engagement
00:44:57no one took
00:44:59any of that
00:45:00really seriously
00:45:01when I first
00:45:05got to Iraq
00:45:05I remember
00:45:07the early
00:45:07searches
00:45:08would
00:45:10would be
00:45:11gentle
00:45:11knock on the door
00:45:12and you know
00:45:13are you guys
00:45:14hiding any weapons
00:45:15in here
00:45:16you know
00:45:16and full of care
00:45:19and then
00:45:19some things
00:45:20happened
00:45:21I remember
00:45:21we were driving
00:45:22down the street
00:45:22in a striker
00:45:23by a house
00:45:23and a grenade
00:45:24drops into the
00:45:25into the striker
00:45:25from an open hatch
00:45:26well whoever threw
00:45:28it had forgot
00:45:28to pull the pin
00:45:29you know
00:45:30lucky for us
00:45:31not so lucky
00:45:32for the people
00:45:33that occupied
00:45:34the house
00:45:35because I was
00:45:35so furious
00:45:36that I went
00:45:38inside
00:45:38and I
00:45:39I found
00:45:40the oldest
00:45:41member of the house
00:45:42and I kept
00:45:42asking him
00:45:43who threw
00:45:43the grenade
00:45:44and when he
00:45:45didn't answer
00:45:45I'd hit the grenade
00:45:46into the face
00:45:47of one of his
00:45:47family members
00:45:48and when
00:45:49he didn't answer
00:45:50again
00:45:50I just moved
00:45:51along
00:45:51until he
00:45:52finally answered
00:45:53we never
00:45:54ended up
00:45:54catching the
00:45:54person who
00:45:55did it
00:45:55but that
00:45:56that I think
00:45:57was the start
00:45:58of when things
00:45:59started to get
00:45:59really violent
00:46:00for me
00:46:00when my
00:46:01capacity for
00:46:02sadism
00:46:03really started
00:46:04to present
00:46:05itself
00:46:05searches after
00:46:07that were
00:46:08that were
00:46:08I'm shooting
00:46:09a door
00:46:09down
00:46:10or we're
00:46:11driving a
00:46:11striker
00:46:12through the
00:46:12door
00:46:12I'm allowed
00:46:13to search
00:46:14right
00:46:14so I'm
00:46:15going to
00:46:15take a
00:46:15knife
00:46:16and I'm
00:46:16going to
00:46:16cut open
00:46:17your grain
00:46:17just to
00:46:18spill it
00:46:19all over
00:46:19the floor
00:46:20because I
00:46:21could
00:46:21because I'm
00:46:22searching for
00:46:23weapons
00:46:23right
00:46:23but really
00:46:24I was
00:46:24terrorizing
00:46:24that's
00:46:26kind of
00:46:26what the
00:46:27neighborhood
00:46:30of violence
00:46:31brought
00:46:32to my
00:46:33consciousness
00:46:34that I had
00:46:35to be
00:46:35violent
00:46:35towards anyone
00:46:36lest they
00:46:37do it to
00:46:37me
00:46:37I remember
00:46:41we got a
00:46:41report of
00:46:42a guy
00:46:42moving
00:46:43RPGs
00:46:44and that
00:46:44was a
00:46:45death
00:46:45sentence
00:46:45if you
00:46:45saw
00:46:46anyone
00:46:46with an
00:46:46RPG
00:46:47they
00:46:48could
00:46:48be
00:46:48part
00:46:49of
00:46:49the
00:46:49rules
00:46:49of
00:46:49engagement
00:46:50they
00:46:50could
00:46:50be
00:46:50shot
00:46:51and
00:46:51killed
00:46:51right
00:46:51away
00:46:51and I
00:46:52see
00:46:52a
00:46:53guy
00:46:53loading
00:46:53some
00:46:53tube
00:46:54shaped
00:46:55things
00:46:56into a
00:46:56trunk
00:46:56and I
00:46:56shot
00:46:57him
00:46:57from
00:46:58450
00:46:58yards
00:46:59away
00:46:59I
00:46:59heard
00:46:59him
00:47:00scream
00:47:00I
00:47:00saw
00:47:01the
00:47:01bullet
00:47:01impact
00:47:02him
00:47:02at
00:47:03range
00:47:03and I
00:47:04screamed
00:47:05for joy
00:47:06because I
00:47:07was finally
00:47:08a part
00:47:08of the
00:47:08club
00:47:09you're not
00:47:11a man
00:47:11until you've
00:47:12shot
00:47:12somebody
00:47:13and I
00:47:14think that
00:47:15more than
00:47:16anything else
00:47:16haunts me
00:47:17to the most
00:47:18to this day
00:47:19that that
00:47:19was my
00:47:20reaction
00:47:20to ending
00:47:21someone's
00:47:22life
00:47:22there's
00:47:24not a
00:47:25day
00:47:25that
00:47:25goes
00:47:25by
00:47:25that
00:47:26I
00:47:26don't
00:47:26think
00:47:26about
00:47:26that
00:47:27man
00:47:27I
00:47:27shot
00:47:27that
00:47:28maybe
00:47:29he
00:47:29was
00:47:29just
00:47:29loading
00:47:30tubes
00:47:30of
00:47:30blueprints
00:47:32like I'm in
00:47:32construction now
00:47:33we get blueprints
00:47:34it could have been
00:47:34that
00:47:35you know
00:47:35that's who I am
00:47:38that's who I had
00:47:39become
00:47:39that's the person
00:47:41that I am
00:47:41that you're
00:47:42sitting across
00:47:43from
00:47:43that I
00:47:44had a
00:47:45psychotic
00:47:45break
00:47:46but I was still
00:47:47allowed to remain
00:47:48in command of troops
00:47:49you know
00:47:50of a whole vehicle
00:47:51a 14 ton vehicle
00:47:52I could tell
00:47:53where to go
00:47:54and what to do
00:47:55and what to shoot at
00:47:56and they let me
00:47:59get away with that
00:48:00Matthew tells them
00:48:04about his experiences
00:48:05in Al-Anbar province
00:48:07Al-Anbar at that point
00:48:09was you know
00:48:11very violent
00:48:11direct combat
00:48:13did a lot of harm
00:48:15for the Iraqi
00:48:15to Iraqi civilians
00:48:19we committed
00:48:20war crimes
00:48:21he explains
00:48:23how his
00:48:23regimental combat
00:48:24team
00:48:25set a policy
00:48:26on how to deal
00:48:27with insurgent bodies
00:48:28it was essentially
00:48:30and I know I'm
00:48:31sitting here with
00:48:31mothers so
00:48:32the young men
00:48:34we killed
00:48:35we would guard
00:48:36their bodies
00:48:37and let the dogs
00:48:38eat them
00:48:38and not let their
00:48:38mothers take them
00:48:39and it's clear violation
00:48:46clear war crime
00:48:48this brutality
00:48:50this barbarism
00:48:51I'm saying we engage
00:48:53in it
00:48:53and I'm going to
00:48:53have my marines do it
00:48:54that's who we have
00:48:56become
00:48:56and it was all
00:48:59under the guise
00:49:00of course
00:49:01of helping Iraqis
00:49:03they put me
00:49:07and two other guys
00:49:08in charge
00:49:09of some detainees
00:49:10that had been
00:49:11charged with
00:49:12I don't know what
00:49:13I invented things
00:49:15for them to be charged with
00:49:16and I brutalized them
00:49:17I would stick shotguns
00:49:19in their face
00:49:19to scare them
00:49:20I would starve them
00:49:21I would put zip ties
00:49:23on their hands
00:49:23so hard that their hands
00:49:24turned purple
00:49:25before I cut them off
00:49:27they were only being
00:49:30held for questioning
00:49:31and nothing more than that
00:49:33and also just nothing
00:49:34more than being Iraqi
00:49:36you know
00:49:37really
00:49:37nothing more than that
00:49:40you were in jail
00:49:42and you got terrorized
00:49:43by me
00:49:43I turned into a sadist
00:49:49you know
00:49:51I became sadistic
00:49:52and gleeful
00:49:53at the thought
00:49:54of the torture
00:49:54of others
00:49:55and then sometime
00:49:57very shortly after that
00:49:59one of the prisoners
00:49:59in there
00:50:00I think it was
00:50:00a younger kid
00:50:01was having screaming
00:50:04nightmares
00:50:05and someone asked him
00:50:06like why are you
00:50:07having nightmares about
00:50:08it was about me
00:50:09you know
00:50:10he was having nightmares
00:50:11about me
00:50:12so I was arrested
00:50:13I was charged
00:50:15with detaining abuse
00:50:15I was court-martialed
00:50:16and I was sent
00:50:17to a United States prison
00:50:19in Kuwait
00:50:19for a month
00:50:20and unceremoniously
00:50:22and unceremoniously
00:50:23shipped home
00:50:24and crawled into a bottle
00:50:26for 15 years
00:50:27thank all the gods
00:50:31that ever were
00:50:31that I was removed
00:50:33from my position
00:50:34before I could do
00:50:35even more damage
00:50:36and then do even more damage
00:50:37somewhere else
00:50:38I understand
00:50:40when you're in combat
00:50:41and you're in that moment
00:50:42it's either my life
00:50:44or the life
00:50:44of anyone shooting
00:50:45regardless of who
00:50:46that person is
00:50:46you're going to grab
00:50:47the weapon and shoot
00:50:48that's basic human instinct
00:50:49and that's something
00:50:50we all share
00:50:50but the killing
00:50:52for fun
00:50:54the gratification
00:50:55the satisfaction
00:50:57when did the dehumanization
00:50:59of Iraqis start
00:51:00the joy that came
00:51:02from hurting
00:51:05and humiliating us
00:51:06where did that come from
00:51:07or was it just the job
00:51:08they don't make cocaine
00:51:11that is as good
00:51:12as a gunfight
00:51:14it is the most euphoric
00:51:15experience you'll ever have
00:51:17really
00:51:18and I know that sounds sick
00:51:19but it's true
00:51:21so at least on the ground level
00:51:22that's what perpetuates it
00:51:25and then it's the culture
00:51:27of the military
00:51:28it's about killing
00:51:30you haven't done anything
00:51:31until you killed somebody
00:51:32yeah the stupidity of it
00:51:36the
00:51:36the
00:51:37the ignorance
00:51:38of the Americans
00:51:39but then there is also
00:51:40the supremacy of the empire
00:51:42the entitlement
00:51:43the arrogance
00:51:44yeah
00:51:45and that's how it builds
00:51:46and it builds
00:51:46and it builds
00:51:47and it builds
00:51:47this is the first time
00:51:51Curtis has spoken publicly
00:51:53about his actions
00:51:54about four years ago
00:51:57about four years ago now
00:51:57I've joined Alcoholics Anonymous
00:51:59I gave up the drinking
00:52:00and
00:52:01and only then
00:52:02did I really start thinking
00:52:04about the impact
00:52:04of some of these things
00:52:05I have completely destroyed
00:52:08lives
00:52:09in your country
00:52:11and there's
00:52:12no amount of apologizing
00:52:13I can do
00:52:14that'll make that better
00:52:15but I offer you
00:52:16my apology anyway
00:52:17and I am truly sorry
00:52:18there's no
00:52:21no fixing what we broke
00:52:24so all that's left
00:52:30is to do whatever we can
00:52:31to create awareness
00:52:32to atone for
00:52:35the damage
00:52:36that we cannot undo
00:52:38thank you for sharing
00:52:43and really just
00:52:44deciding to come
00:52:46to speak
00:52:46I think that answer
00:52:47is my why
00:52:48why
00:52:50these are our stories
00:52:52that has to be told
00:52:53in order for us
00:52:54to learn
00:52:54those lessons
00:52:55to share awareness
00:52:57I would like to thank you
00:53:00very much for
00:53:00saying those words
00:53:02we need to look forward
00:53:03just don't look backward
00:53:04please
00:53:05don't try to
00:53:06pull back those hard memories
00:53:08always look forward
00:53:09how we can work together
00:53:10on getting things better
00:53:12thank you
00:53:13Seth left the military
00:53:20in 2005
00:53:21and protested
00:53:22against the war
00:53:23Matthew Ho
00:53:27went on to join
00:53:29the American Foreign Office
00:53:30but in 2009
00:53:32he became the first
00:53:33known US official
00:53:34to resign in protest
00:53:36at the conduct
00:53:37of the war
00:53:38in Afghanistan
00:53:38I'd helped arrange
00:53:44this meeting
00:53:45because I wanted
00:53:46to see if some kind
00:53:47of future resolution
00:53:48might be possible
00:53:49but the conversation
00:53:52had brought up
00:53:53one of the most
00:53:54controversial questions
00:53:56of the war on terror
00:53:57how many civilians
00:54:00were killed
00:54:01or injured
00:54:02by American
00:54:02and coalition forces
00:54:04the Pentagon
00:54:07has never released
00:54:08official figures
00:54:09but there have been
00:54:10unofficial estimates
00:54:11such as a report
00:54:13by an independent
00:54:13organization
00:54:14called the Iraq
00:54:16Body Count Project
00:54:17it claimed
00:54:21over 17,000
00:54:22civilian deaths
00:54:23were caused
00:54:24by the US-led
00:54:25coalition
00:54:25from 2003
00:54:27to 2017
00:54:29continuing interviews
00:54:33with veterans
00:54:33like Curtis
00:54:34and Seth
00:54:35suggested that
00:54:36many civilian casualties
00:54:37went unrecorded
00:54:39in the field
00:54:40and the figures
00:54:41could be even higher
00:54:42Seth says
00:54:45heavily outnumbered
00:54:46and driving
00:54:47through packed
00:54:48residential areas
00:54:49they would respond
00:54:50to any attack
00:54:51with extreme violence
00:54:53we will never know
00:54:59how many innocent people
00:55:00we harmed
00:55:01or you know
00:55:02vital things
00:55:03that we destroyed
00:55:04in the course
00:55:05of doing that
00:55:05or you know
00:55:06just people we killed
00:55:07our response
00:55:08to any kind of shooting
00:55:10was amazingly violent
00:55:11and had we not done that
00:55:13I have no question
00:55:14that we would have been
00:55:15absolutely overrun
00:55:17a shot can come
00:55:18from anywhere
00:55:19and you have to
00:55:21respond to that
00:55:21if you don't have
00:55:22a solid target
00:55:23you have to
00:55:25you have to just
00:55:26blanket the area
00:55:27with fire
00:55:27and inevitably
00:55:28people are hurt there
00:55:30again it goes back
00:55:31to if you don't
00:55:32return fire
00:55:33you just invite
00:55:34more fire
00:55:35a lot of the
00:55:36horrifically brutal
00:55:37things that we did
00:55:38there was
00:55:38there was a logic
00:55:39to it
00:55:40so it was
00:55:42necessary within
00:55:43the confines
00:55:44of what we were
00:55:45of our mission
00:55:47that innocent people
00:55:48get killed
00:55:49that's the ugly
00:55:50calculus of it all
00:55:51is that
00:55:52that it works
00:55:54brutality works
00:55:55it's really effective
00:55:56means of control
00:55:58on one occasion
00:56:02in the city of
00:56:03Mosul
00:56:03Seth says
00:56:04an Iraqi car
00:56:06got too close
00:56:07to the convoy
00:56:07he was in
00:56:08he darted out
00:56:11into the road
00:56:11my driver avoided
00:56:13him
00:56:13I shot him
00:56:14directly in the head
00:56:15and we continued
00:56:17on
00:56:17I didn't even
00:56:18mention it
00:56:18and that was that
00:56:21I'll never know
00:56:22for sure
00:56:23if he was just
00:56:24an idiot
00:56:25or if he had
00:56:27or if it had been
00:56:28a vehicle borne
00:56:29IED
00:56:29and each time
00:56:30you kill someone
00:56:31you make
00:56:32more insurgents
00:56:33one of the nicknames
00:56:34we had for our striker
00:56:35was the terrorist creator
00:56:36because what you're doing
00:56:39the kind of violence
00:56:39that you're
00:56:40that you're
00:56:41you're imposing
00:56:42on these people
00:56:43if they weren't
00:56:44terrorists before
00:56:44if they were on the fence
00:56:46now they certainly
00:56:47think Americans
00:56:48are the bad guys
00:56:48whereas
00:56:49you know
00:56:50maybe in the first month
00:56:51I was there
00:56:51I was the guy
00:56:52that was
00:56:52you know
00:56:53shaking hands
00:56:54and giving people
00:56:55hugs in the street
00:56:56but after a while
00:56:57my mission
00:56:58was to find terrorists
00:56:59you know
00:57:00so if I was creating
00:57:01them myself
00:57:01then it just meant
00:57:02more for me to find
00:57:03Seth tells of an incident
00:57:09where a teenager
00:57:10was shot in error
00:57:11by a comrade
00:57:12who had thought
00:57:13the boy had a gun
00:57:15we realized
00:57:18we had killed
00:57:18someone who was
00:57:19and we were in the wrong
00:57:21and my advice
00:57:23was that we plant
00:57:24a weapon on him
00:57:25because there was
00:57:26no good that was
00:57:26going to come out of it
00:57:28they said
00:57:29well you know
00:57:29the best thing
00:57:30is just
00:57:30we can't bring him
00:57:32back to life
00:57:32throw that pistol
00:57:33on him
00:57:33and you know
00:57:35we'll move on
00:57:37from here
00:57:38I was responsible
00:57:40for that
00:57:40that was absolutely
00:57:41my idea
00:57:42and why would you
00:57:43plant a weapon
00:57:44on Iraqis
00:57:45later?
00:57:46well because we
00:57:46in the course
00:57:47of doing that job
00:57:49inevitably innocent
00:57:51people were killed
00:57:51we retained
00:57:52that same pistol
00:57:53and that pistol
00:57:54was planted
00:57:55on numerous bodies
00:57:56throughout our
00:57:56time there
00:57:58I'm meeting
00:58:04one more veteran
00:58:05who says he wants
00:58:06to speak openly
00:58:07about violence
00:58:08towards civilians
00:58:09in Iraq
00:58:10Jason Washburn
00:58:13is a former marine
00:58:14shortly after the invasion
00:58:18in 2003
00:58:19during their fight
00:58:20from the Kuwait border
00:58:21to Baghdad
00:58:22he tells me
00:58:23he was on guard duty
00:58:24with a heavily armed unit
00:58:26when a local woman
00:58:28carrying bags
00:58:29started walking
00:58:30towards them
00:58:31we got word
00:58:33passed down
00:58:34that
00:58:35suicide bombers
00:58:36might be coming
00:58:37at us
00:58:38anybody that approached
00:58:39and didn't stop
00:58:41approaching
00:58:41was fair game
00:58:43to be shot
00:58:45and she wouldn't
00:58:47stop coming
00:58:48so she was walking
00:58:50towards you?
00:58:50yeah
00:58:51with bags
00:58:54with bags
00:58:55and we kept
00:58:56like yelling
00:58:56for her to stop
00:58:57to turn back
00:58:59any rifle
00:59:00could have done
00:59:01the job
00:59:01but they decided
00:59:03to use their
00:59:03automatic grenade launcher
00:59:05what was left
00:59:09of her?
00:59:12the term we use
00:59:13is pink mist
00:59:14um
00:59:16chunks
00:59:19pieces
00:59:20body parts
00:59:21um
00:59:24the soldiers
00:59:27then realized
00:59:28the woman
00:59:29had been coming
00:59:29to give them
00:59:30some food
00:59:31some things
00:59:34went rolling away
00:59:36like there was
00:59:37like fruit
00:59:37and stuff
00:59:38in there
00:59:38and I do
00:59:43remember
00:59:43some folks
00:59:45complaining
00:59:45about that
00:59:46response
00:59:47at the time
00:59:47like
00:59:48man we could
00:59:48have used
00:59:49that food
00:59:49I could have
00:59:50gone for
00:59:51a piece
00:59:51of fruit
00:59:51right now
00:59:52also in
00:59:572003
00:59:58he says
00:59:59a fight
01:00:00broke out
01:00:00between his
01:00:01platoon
01:00:01and a group
01:00:02of locals
01:00:03over rationing
01:00:04at a petrol
01:00:04at a petrol station
01:00:05we absolutely
01:00:09beat the shit
01:00:10out of them
01:00:10beat them bloody
01:00:12left them
01:00:12laying there
01:00:13in the street
01:00:13like hitting them
01:00:14with our rifles
01:00:15hitting them
01:00:17with rocks
01:00:17it didn't matter
01:00:18like we were
01:00:20we just went
01:00:21in like
01:00:21I don't know
01:00:22temporary insanity
01:00:23something
01:00:25it was that
01:00:26extreme
01:00:27it was that
01:00:27extreme
01:00:28I just remember
01:00:29people laying
01:00:31on the ground
01:00:32in blood
01:00:32like the beatings
01:00:34happened
01:00:35and then shortly
01:00:36thereafter we loaded
01:00:37up in our vehicles
01:00:38and left
01:00:38were they all
01:00:41alive
01:00:41I have no idea
01:00:43I have no way
01:00:44of knowing that
01:00:44as far as I know
01:00:48nobody went back
01:00:48and checked on them
01:00:49and nobody was like
01:00:51tabulating
01:00:52who died
01:00:55and who lived
01:00:55it wasn't like
01:00:58when one of ours
01:01:00died
01:01:00where they are
01:01:01very carefully
01:01:02calculated
01:01:03and the numbers
01:01:03are very specific
01:01:05they were serious
01:01:08beatings
01:01:08and I don't know
01:01:10any hospitals
01:01:11that were close
01:01:12to where we were
01:01:12like many of the
01:01:17veterans I'd spoken to
01:01:18Jason says
01:01:19the strain
01:01:20of continual warfare
01:01:22changed him
01:01:23for the worse
01:01:24by his third
01:01:26deployment
01:01:26in Haditha
01:01:28in 2005
01:01:29he was a squad leader
01:01:31and he says
01:01:32he was often tasked
01:01:33with conducting
01:01:34house searches
01:01:35on families
01:01:36we were extremely
01:01:39violent with those
01:01:40people
01:01:40for no reason
01:01:42whatsoever
01:01:43other than
01:01:44our own
01:01:46feeling of
01:01:46superiority
01:01:47and power
01:01:48and the vague
01:01:50hope that we
01:01:51would find
01:01:51something bad
01:01:52we never did
01:01:56we never found
01:01:57shit in any
01:01:58of those homes
01:01:59nothing real
01:02:00I would take
01:02:01my squad
01:02:02through homes
01:02:03trash
01:02:04their homes
01:02:05you know
01:02:06throw them around
01:02:07drag them
01:02:08into different
01:02:09you know
01:02:10into a different
01:02:10room
01:02:11and like
01:02:11put them all
01:02:11huddled together
01:02:12on their knees
01:02:13scared
01:02:14crying
01:02:15men
01:02:16we would beat
01:02:17physically
01:02:18with my fists
01:02:18elbows
01:02:19weapon
01:02:21and children
01:02:24children were pretty
01:02:28easy to control
01:02:31usually they cried
01:02:32screamed
01:02:33we would scream
01:02:34back at them
01:02:35tell them to shut up
01:02:36and all the
01:02:37searches were
01:02:37random
01:02:38completely
01:02:39like whatever
01:02:42home we felt
01:02:42like going in
01:02:43how many of
01:02:44these raids
01:02:45do you think
01:02:45you did
01:02:46roughly
01:02:47I couldn't
01:02:48even begin
01:02:48to count
01:02:49that many
01:02:51that many
01:02:52it was daily
01:02:54and we would
01:02:54do dozens
01:02:55by the day
01:02:56and they were
01:02:57all violent
01:02:58and they were
01:02:58all violent
01:02:59did you order
01:03:02your men
01:03:03to be that
01:03:04violent as well
01:03:05yes
01:03:06like I became
01:03:08a monster
01:03:09I terrorized
01:03:10those people
01:03:10and there was
01:03:12no rhyme
01:03:12or reason
01:03:13to it
01:03:13like I was
01:03:15angry
01:03:16like I joined
01:03:18the Marine Corps
01:03:19believing in
01:03:20America
01:03:21and you know
01:03:22standing up
01:03:22against tyranny
01:03:23is what I wanted
01:03:25to do
01:03:25what I believed
01:03:26in
01:03:27and then
01:03:28realizing
01:03:30I was
01:03:31the villain
01:03:34in that story
01:03:35has been
01:03:40difficult to
01:03:41deal with
01:03:42and come
01:03:43to grips
01:03:43with
01:03:44I've spoken
01:03:55to other soldiers
01:03:56who served
01:03:57alongside
01:03:58Jason
01:03:58Seth and Curtis
01:03:59and they all
01:04:01confirm their
01:04:02accounts of
01:04:02these events
01:04:03we wrote to
01:04:09the Department
01:04:10of Defense
01:04:10and the military
01:04:11outlining the
01:04:12allegations
01:04:13contained in
01:04:14this film
01:04:14but they did
01:04:15not respond
01:04:16the Department
01:04:19of Defense
01:04:19has previously
01:04:20said that
01:04:21America has
01:04:22a long
01:04:23and deep
01:04:23tradition of
01:04:24respect for
01:04:25the rule of
01:04:25law
01:04:25protection of
01:04:27civilians is
01:04:28vital to the
01:04:29success of our
01:04:30military operations
01:04:31when our own
01:04:33people do wrong
01:04:34we lawfully
01:04:35punish those
01:04:36individuals
01:04:36as rare as
01:04:38they are
01:04:38who tarnish
01:04:39the reputation
01:04:40of our great
01:04:41US military
01:04:42in 2023
01:04:44the Department
01:04:45launched a
01:04:46suicide prevention
01:04:47campaign for
01:04:48its soldiers
01:04:48new recruits
01:04:50to the military
01:04:51are given
01:04:52culture awareness
01:04:53training about
01:04:54other cultures
01:04:54and languages
01:04:55a fundamentally
01:05:02divided America
01:05:04still has to
01:05:05come to terms
01:05:06with its recent
01:05:07violent past
01:05:09many of these
01:05:12soldiers have
01:05:13decided to talk
01:05:14to me
01:05:14to try to
01:05:15raise awareness
01:05:16of what happened
01:05:17to explain its
01:05:19impact on
01:05:19veterans today
01:05:20and to avoid
01:05:23future horrors
01:05:24shows a lot of
01:05:25heart right there
01:05:26in so doing
01:05:31they have had
01:05:32to face
01:05:33themselves
01:05:33yeah I think
01:05:36about it
01:05:36almost every
01:05:37night
01:05:37we destroyed
01:05:40an entire
01:05:41society
01:05:41you know
01:05:42an entire
01:05:43civilization
01:05:44was just
01:05:44thrown into
01:05:46chaos and
01:05:47disarray
01:05:47because of
01:05:47our actions
01:05:48and sometimes
01:05:49things I
01:05:49hadn't thought
01:05:50about in years
01:05:51will pop up
01:05:52in my head
01:05:52over the last
01:05:5520 years
01:05:56I've spent
01:05:58probably months
01:06:00or maybe
01:06:01years in total
01:06:02just consumed
01:06:04with these
01:06:05thoughts of
01:06:05my past
01:06:06and I'll
01:06:07have to
01:06:07accept
01:06:08you know
01:06:11the horror
01:06:12of the reality
01:06:13that I've
01:06:13created for
01:06:14people
01:06:14why say
01:06:17out loud
01:06:18publicly
01:06:18the things
01:06:19that you've
01:06:19done
01:06:19maybe I
01:06:22owe it
01:06:23to
01:06:24I owe it
01:06:35to the
01:06:35people whose
01:06:36lives I
01:06:36destroyed
01:06:37and
01:06:41if it's
01:06:43someone who's
01:06:44willing to
01:06:44take it
01:06:44seriously
01:06:45then I'm
01:06:53open to
01:06:53speaking about
01:06:54it
01:06:55what are you
01:07:01thinking
01:07:01um
01:07:05if there's a
01:07:08hell
01:07:08yeah I don't
01:07:12know
01:07:12and I don't
01:07:13know if I
01:07:13deserve it
01:07:14um
01:07:14yeah I don't
01:07:16know
01:07:16I don't know
01:07:17if it's
01:07:17I don't know
01:07:18if it's for
01:07:18me
01:07:18but if it
01:07:20is I
01:07:20understand
01:07:21until then
01:07:25I'll still
01:07:26work on
01:07:26forgiveness
01:07:27and I'll
01:07:29try to make
01:07:29up for
01:07:30for how
01:07:31I've
01:07:31behaved
01:07:31and if
01:07:43you've been
01:07:43affected by
01:07:44the issues
01:07:44raised in
01:07:45this program
01:07:45you can
01:07:46visit
01:07:46itv.com
01:07:47slash
01:07:47advice
01:07:48for
01:07:49support
01:07:49and
01:07:49information
01:08:01and
01:08:03I don't
01:08:06I don't
01:08:06know
01:08:07I don't
01:08:08know
01:08:09I don't
01:08:10know
01:08:11I don't
01:08:12know
01:08:13I don't
01:08:14know
01:08:15I don't
01:08:16know
01:08:17I don't
01:08:18know
01:08:19I don't
01:08:20know
01:08:21I don't
01:08:22know
01:08:23I don't
01:08:24know
01:08:25I don't
01:08:26know
01:08:27I don't
01:08:28know
01:08:29I don't
01:08:30know
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