- 1 week ago
Connect with Deadline online!
https://www.facebook.com/deadline/
https://twitter.com/DEADLINE
https://www.instagram.com/deadline/
https://www.youtube.com/Deadline
https://www.facebook.com/deadline/
https://twitter.com/DEADLINE
https://www.instagram.com/deadline/
https://www.youtube.com/Deadline
Category
😹
FunTranscript
00:00Hello, I'm Zach, one of the reporters here at Deadline, and today I'm discussing The Heart is a Muscle, South Africa's entry for the Best International Oscar.
00:08The film follows Ryan, a young father whose son goes missing during a birthday gathering.
00:13Ryan's violent reaction to the scare sets off a chain of events and unearths secrets from the past.
00:19A journey of self-discovery and forgiveness begins.
00:21To discuss the film, I'm joined by writer-director Imran Hamdoulay and actors Keenan Arison and Melissa DeVries.
00:28Before we start, here's a clip from the movie.
00:30The Heart is a production of the film.
00:59And?
01:02Right, right, right.
01:04Come.
01:05Come.
01:08Come back.
01:09Cover, cover.
01:29Come back.
01:59So Imran, this is your first feature as a writer-director, and I wondered if you could speak a little bit about sort of how you developed the idea, but also the process of building the production.
02:26For example, like finding, you know, collaborators, producers, just that sort of whole process.
02:32The film itself came to me when I was at a friend's barbecue, you know, like we're all really tight friends, and a similar incident happened where my friend's son went missing.
02:44And, you know, immediately, we're all really close friends, we've known each other for like almost 25 years, and immediately everyone like spun into action, you know.
02:53One went that way, the other went that way, and our cars, like, you know, Jason Bourne, all like running around.
02:58And in my friend, I'd never seen, you know, he's kind of like the glue in our circle, and, you know, he's just kind of like this steady guy.
03:07But I'd never seen fear in his eyes like that, you know, his kid was found very quickly, you know, he's just like, naughty, he was kind of like hiding somewhere.
03:16But then when his kid was found, I'd never seen anger in him like that, you know.
03:23And, you know, he didn't, he didn't harm his kid, you know, the way that kind of transpires in the film.
03:29But that was the spark, that was kind of the, what got, you know, just the story ignited in my mind, and I kind of built it out from there.
03:39And beyond that, my executive producer, Adam Tull, who this film could not have been made without him, and he came to me and he said, look, do you have anything you'd like to shoot quickly on a small budget?
03:52And I pitched the one-liner to him, and he said, cool, I love it, can, like, would you be able to write this script?
03:58And I said, okay, are you willing to pay me to write this script?
04:01And he was like, okay, cool.
04:03But he said, but I want it in two months.
04:05You know, that kind of like lit the fire and gave him the first draft.
04:09He said, cool, look, it's good, let's move forward.
04:12And then I think we shot our second draft, which is crazy.
04:15You know, I wouldn't recommend anyone do that, you know.
04:18But it was kind of cool, you know, he really pushed me.
04:21He was like, come on, man, you want to make a film?
04:23Because I was kind of like, you know, let's find funding here.
04:26Let's get another, you know, few thousand here.
04:29And he said, no, I'll give you this money if you can shoot this in the next six months.
04:35And that's how it happened.
04:38I think, you know, the spirit of the crew and the cast was really, you know, what carried us and what carried the film.
04:44And I think I was, like, certainly blessed as a director to be working with, like, just great people around me.
04:50Melissa and Keenan, you guys are really experienced actors, you know, and a dude comes up to you pitching a film that you're going to shoot.
04:57Like that's going to be done within six months really quickly like this.
05:00Like, what's your first reaction?
05:02How does he kind of convince you to get on board with something like this?
05:07So we had auditions for this film.
05:09And it's my first time meeting Imran.
05:11And in the audition already, I could see that he knew what he wanted.
05:14Because I initially auditioned for a different character.
05:16And then eventually he made the call.
05:18I got the job and we had a meeting.
05:20It's my first time actually where a director called me for a meeting and actually sat me down to speak about the vision.
05:26And he really was so prepared, had it packaged well up until the music that he listened to when he wrote for Leila, you know.
05:33So that really helped me and made me aware of how serious he is about this, what his vision is, and gave me a good idea.
05:41I felt really supported even before we started shooting the film.
05:45And yeah, and now we're here.
05:48Yeah, it was one of those moments where I'm like, a producer approached me with this idea.
05:54I didn't hear from them for like months.
05:57And I thought, okay, that's it.
05:59I'm definitely not considered for this project.
06:02And then Imran called me, we had a chat, you know.
06:06And like, it was more about getting to know each other and figuring out what our backgrounds are and where we come from only to find out.
06:14We come from very similar backgrounds, similar areas.
06:17And a lot of similarity came out in that first meeting.
06:20Listen, I would go to war with Imran.
06:23I think from that day, I think I knew that it was a project that I wanted to be involved in.
06:28Not just because of him, but also the story that he's written and come up with.
06:33And, you know, there were lots of moments and points in the story that were relevant to me, just personally.
06:41I guess the determining factor from that meeting was the fact that we support the same football club.
06:48So there you go.
06:52He doesn't know that that's only that he's in a costume.
06:56Thank God.
06:58Yeah, no one knows that.
07:00This is a scoop.
07:01Yeah, I didn't speak for sure.
07:06We now play for the same football.
07:07Yeah.
07:08We play fights together.
07:09Yeah.
07:10Look at that.
07:14I guess it's also art imitating life, you know, what's from the clip that we saw to what we do just personally with when we hang out, you know, secret from filming or being in the world.
07:26Well, Imran, you mentioned that you're talking about the neighborhood, your neighborhood and where the story came from.
07:33And I know that Cape Flats is like the way that the neighborhood is sort of used in the film to visually explore, I think, ideas that are very specific to South Africa, I think is really interesting.
07:47I wonder if you could talk a little bit about the significance of this neighborhood and why it was a useful sort of ground for a story like this.
07:54Yeah, you know, I'd love to just give a very short kind of like context to the Cape Flats.
07:59The Cape Flats is the area that people of color were forcibly moved to during apartheid.
08:06And what happened was they were moved out of kind of affluent, wealthy areas that were well situated close to the mountain or close to the sea and moved, pushed far out in the outskirts of the city with, you know, not as much service delivery, you know, kind of limited access to different, you know, parts of Cape Town.
08:25So, you know, there's that deep historical context that is rooted and grounded in the film.
08:32And beyond that, you know, we're all actually from that area.
08:36And I think for a long time I've seen the area depicted in film in ways made by outsiders in ways that glorified the gangster element, gangsterism in the area, the violence in the area.
08:51And that single story, you know, always bugged me and I felt compelled to write a film and write a narrative that can re-represent that area and its people.
09:02You know, it's an area that holds so much historical violence.
09:07There's still so much spatial apartheid.
09:10There's so much, like, beauty and coolness.
09:13And the people, you know, it's different diverse cultures.
09:16The people are just, like, loud and vibrant.
09:19And there's, you know, amazing music that comes from that area.
09:24Jazz, hip-hop, that defines South Africa in many ways.
09:28And the sounds come from that area.
09:30So, you know, while there is a deeply troubled history, there's also, like, incredible beauty that comes from that.
09:38There's defiance that comes from that.
09:40And that's, for me, as a sound-up activist, I find that something that I'm deeply attracted to.
09:46The one thing that really struck me about the film is how the camera is used.
09:50And I think maybe this is a sort of a term that won't do it justice, but it's quite fluid, the way that the camera moves.
09:58And it stays really close to the characters.
10:01And a lot of it feels, like, handheld.
10:03And I wondered if you could talk a bit about how you built that visual language, but also with the actors.
10:09Because I wonder if the actors could talk a little bit about working with Imran in this way.
10:14Because it is kind of a dance, in a way.
10:16Like, it feels like you might have had to choreograph, like, even, like, you know, walking down the street.
10:20Like, some things had to have been quite intentional, because they don't look like something that could have just been, you know, happened upon.
10:28You know, from the beginning, I always kind of knew that the film was grounded in performance.
10:32You know, we had six, we had a lead, one, you know, lead ground in the film, five supporting actors, two kids.
10:41And I always, my approach is always to center the performances and center the actors.
10:47And how is it that the camera can allow the performances to live and to breathe and, you know, give these amazing performers the space to, you know, show the camera and the audience what it is that I felt and what I saw in them.
11:05So I think, you know, over and above, kind of like the stylistic elements, that was always the approach to, you know, how, what that visual language would look like.
11:15And, you know, it's an interesting thing, you know, for me, the spirit of the set is really important, you know, like, how is it that we talk to each other?
11:22How is it that we carry ourselves?
11:24And there's a spirituality that happens, I think, when you point a camera at an actor, and there's just like a lived liveness that comes out of them.
11:36You know, I don't want to get geeky, but like on a quantum level, that's photons entering a lens.
11:41And that lens then is that that image is in process.
11:45So in a weird way, like there's emotion that's sent through photons into a lens.
11:51And for me, what the lens needs to do is be truthful.
11:54And it's got to be, it's got to have clarity to allow all of that magic to come through.
11:59Just to add to that, I think, Mike, this is by far my favorite style of shooting.
12:04Because I think it allows the audience to not only sort of get into the world of the character, but also the world itself.
12:13We're so used to sort of this technical, we shoot, we cut, that is the world that we're shooting, right?
12:20Whether we're shooting in a dining room, whether we're shooting outside.
12:23But what Imran and our DOP managed to get so, and this is the choreography that you talk of,
12:28is this dance of these characters live in a world that exists outside of just a scene.
12:35You know, so what was brilliant is that we could live in the world.
12:38The house that we shot in, the streets, the parks, all of it, it was alive.
12:44Every moment was alive.
12:47So it wasn't just about action cut, you know, that moment's done.
12:51It's moments that breathe into the next moment, into the next scene.
12:55And obviously, in post-production, that is chopped up.
12:59But for an actor, it's just so amazing to be able to spread and expand this emotional landscape,
13:09not just from one scene to the next, or into this present moment.
13:13But throughout this film, you feel the world.
13:17And this is why the Cape Flats and the world that we shoot in is so alive,
13:20and so it's a character on its own.
13:22So by far, it was my favorite style of shooting.
13:25And I love it.
13:26I mean, I love just to put a camera on me.
13:28Here we go.
13:29Yeah.
13:30I never felt that, for me, I even forgot that the camera was there.
13:35Because I could feel that, I think Imran was working around our performances.
13:39It never felt, I even, you forget that there's a cut.
13:42Because it feels like you're like Keenan is saying, you're in that world the whole time.
13:46And the space that was created was, I felt so safe because of the relationship that Imran created with us,
13:51that you could feel the collaboration with everyone on set.
13:55So it never felt like I was on set.
13:58It felt like I stayed in that house, like I've been there.
14:01And it felt so safe.
14:03It was easy for us to go into whatever emotions was necessary,
14:06because you felt like that was home, and you never, you forgot about the technical stuff.
14:10You forgot that there's a camera, because that's how it felt.
14:12It felt like a family just creating some magic.
14:15I didn't rehearse at all with them.
14:18You know, what we instead did was, and that was just like being that time to rehearse, you know, during prep.
14:25And we spent a lot of time talking about the characters, talking about the actors.
14:31And, you know, for me, it was more important that they understood the tonal quality of the film
14:36and the frequency that the film lives at.
14:38And once they understood that on set, you know, I just needed the camera to like to get out of their way.
14:44You know, I needed the camera and the lens to just stand back a little bit and let them inhibit that space.
14:50Mel, I don't know if you remember, it was a moment on set quite early on.
14:55I felt like, you know, you were accommodating everyone on set.
15:00Yes.
15:01You were accommodating the crew and the lighting guys.
15:04And I kind of, I said, look, you know, I was just like, man, I was like, Mel, the camera is here for you.
15:10You're not here for the camera, you know.
15:12And I think once we had that conversation, yeah.
15:15Yeah.
15:16Yeah.
15:17Yeah.
15:18I was like, let them wait.
15:19You take your time.
15:20And I could feel that, you know, that just made you like, you're like, okay, cool, man.
15:24Like you, you are here for me.
15:27And it was like a nice moment because I could feel you just like settled.
15:31Yeah.
15:32Yeah.
15:33I mean, if I can add my last two cents.
15:36That was the beauty of exactly what Imran said is that the camera would record.
15:43And once you felt the moment, you felt the moment, regardless of whether it came in instantly or a minute later.
15:50But you were allowed to breathe through the character, breathe through the moment and take your moment.
15:56We are so used to as actors jumping on our cues, getting it out, getting the line out.
16:02And I think it's such a pleasure.
16:06It's such a pleasure for any actor to be able to breathe through moments and have the camera capture those moments.
16:13Yeah.
16:14I remember Imran also saying, don't rush it.
16:15Yeah.
16:16Don't rush it.
16:17Take your time.
16:18Don't rush it.
16:19And that was the highlight.
16:20Yeah.
16:21You never get that on all sets where you don't get to rush.
16:23You don't have to finish.
16:24Like Keenan just said, you can take your time to find the moment, find those scenes, and you can see it when you watch the film.
16:30And we are grateful for the experience.
16:32Last question, because we're just about out of time.
16:35You mentioned that this shows the flats in a kind of a new light.
16:39What has the reaction been like back home in South Africa?
16:42What are people saying about the film?
16:43What are they talking about it?
16:44One of the most rewarding screenings we had was a community screening in the area we shot.
16:49And you had like, you know, aunties watching the film crying and saying, you know, I'm going to get my husband to watch this.
16:56I'm going to get my son to watch this, you know, because obviously the film, you know, I was interested in framing intergenerational kind of memories and what our fathers passed on to us and not just look at it through the lens of trauma.
17:10But, you know, can we look at, in addition to that, look at it through the lens of healing?
17:15And I think within the Cape Flats, you know, we've been conditioned to look at our fathers and our sons in a specific kind of way.
17:25And I think it was just so humbling, you know, when I heard feedback from everyone.
17:30And internationally, it's been very cool.
17:32You know, we've had people come up to us and say, oh man, like I've never seen the Cape Flats like that before.
17:37And I love that, you know.
17:39I mean, for me particularly is the fact that the film doesn't take the course you think it's going to take.
17:45It starts off and everybody has this preconceived idea of what they think would happen to the character or where he's going to next.
17:52But what the film does so beautifully, it's like it just flips on you.
17:58And suddenly you find yourself in this moment of sort of reflective, immersive moments throughout.
18:06That's just, it's almost meditative if you want, you know, which is what I really liked.
18:14And I think that's what the audience has picked up on.
18:16Awesome.
18:17Well, that's all we have time for.
18:18Thanks so much for joining me.
18:20Cool.
18:21Thanks for having us.
18:22Thanks.
18:23Thanks.
18:24Thanks.
Be the first to comment