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00:00You provided a service cleansing somebody's house
00:04of bad spirits.
00:06Correct.
00:07Honestly, every once in a while, just kind of weird things
00:09happen.
00:10That you couldn't explain.
00:11Yeah, it sounds cuckoo.
00:12I have what's called intuition.
00:14Well, I have intuition, too.
00:16She says I'm witchy.
00:19This is Judy Justice.
00:30Robin Bragg is suing her former client, Andrew Deal,
00:43for unpaid services, lost wages, and fraud.
00:47Court, come to order.
00:48All rise.
00:51Have a seat, please.
00:54Judge, case 4020, Bragg versus Deal.
00:57You're welcome.
00:58Ms. Bragg, the case is broken down to its most simple terms.
01:01It is your belief that you provided a service,
01:05that the defendant contractually ordered from you,
01:08that you were paid by credit card, his credit card.
01:12And subsequently, he had that credit card reversed
01:17because either he was dissatisfied with the service
01:20or he was going to tell me why he had it reversed.
01:23And the bank eventually, after some back and forth,
01:27did take the money out of your account.
01:29Correct.
01:29And that's what you're suing him for.
01:31Yes.
01:32But the service that you provided is a unique service.
01:35As it happens, it's not a service that I haven't heard of.
01:38I don't necessarily understand it all.
01:43Or even if I understood it, I'm a meat and potatoes girl.
01:48And I don't get cleansing somebody's house of bad spirits.
01:54Now, I'm sure that there are people who do believe in that
01:57because I actually have a couple in my family who actually did that once.
02:03But I don't know what particular skill or training one has,
02:08but that's what you do as sort of a side job because you have another job.
02:14Yes.
02:15And what's your other job?
02:16So I'm the owner of a metaphysical and organic shop
02:19that is based in Jacksonville, Florida.
02:21From that shop, you sell tees?
02:24Yes.
02:24How long have you had that shop?
02:26I've had the shop two years, but I've been mobile.
02:30I went from my house to other people's house.
02:32I did in-home visits before now.
02:34But the shop where you met him, correct?
02:37Yes.
02:38Sells teas.
02:39What else?
02:39Teas, tonics, tinctures, other healing, spiritual healing services,
02:44such as like a Reiki where there's crystals placed on your body
02:47and you're able to balance yourself.
02:50You sell them or you perform that service in the shop?
02:53That one is a service that's performed.
02:55In the shop?
02:56Correct.
02:56So you put crystals on your body.
02:58I place seven crystals down the front and center of each individual's body.
03:02And you do that while they're lying on some sort of a...
03:05On a massage table and my hands hover over them.
03:08So that's the Reiki.
03:09What else?
03:10I do ayahuasca.
03:12What is that?
03:12Ayahuasca is a plant.
03:14It is a plant medicine that is used to cure depression
03:17and other mental episodes within individuals.
03:20Okay.
03:20And where do you get this plant medicine?
03:23It comes from different places.
03:24Most of mine...
03:25Where do you get it?
03:26So I buy it from the tribe that's in Amazon.
03:28How do you get it delivered?
03:30I e-mail them.
03:30I e-mail them.
03:31It comes.
03:31It clears customs.
03:32Since it is a shamanic practice, it is deemed a medicinal item.
03:37It's not entirely legal.
03:38It's not illegal.
03:39It's not entirely legal.
03:40There's a loophole for shaman practices that can get it directly from...
03:46How do you know about that?
03:46I know some things.
03:51I know some things.
03:52Okay.
03:52Yes.
03:53Never know.
03:56Something new.
03:57Where did you learn all about this?
03:58So my grandma did some services and it's been within my family, but I also have seven years of
04:04schooling.
04:04I have a master's of science in health and wellness.
04:06From where?
04:07State of Oregon.
04:08The college is American College of Healthcare Sciences.
04:11So your grandmother did this?
04:14Yes.
04:14And your mom?
04:16My mom doesn't do it.
04:16It's my father's mother.
04:19Interesting.
04:19So did you learn from her?
04:21Some things and some things I've learned as I go.
04:24I have what's called intuition.
04:26So I've been able to be guided.
04:28Well, I have intuition too.
04:31She says I'm witchy.
04:33It's really just a combination of common sense.
04:38Sometimes it's a little witchy if you call and you're thinking about the person and the
04:43phone rings.
04:44Well, I have to tell you, Ms. Bragg, sometimes you're really surprised.
04:49I'm surprised by the background that you've just described that suggests to me that
04:55you actually believe that this is a skill set that was passed down to you.
05:00You've had some training with regard to it.
05:02It doesn't sound like you're going hocus pocus, miniocus.
05:06You know, it sounds as if there's some skill behind it.
05:10And, you know, just as with prophylactic medicines, sugar pills, people believe it
05:16and it makes them better.
05:17So sometimes it works and sometimes it's in the mind of the patient.
05:22Anyway, I'm going to come over to you for a second, Mr. Deal.
05:25You started to go to Ms. Bragg's shop.
05:28Yes, ma'am.
05:28And what were you buying there?
05:30First, it was like teas.
05:32Um, then it was like a cough type medicine for when your chest hurts.
05:37Then, like, I got sick, congestions and all that.
05:40So she made me a tea blend.
05:42Um, I tried that.
05:43And then I kept getting different types of drinks,
05:46like juice type drinks.
05:48They taste good.
05:49Tastes good and it was effective.
05:52It was one of those things that you said, I think this makes me feel better.
05:56No, I thought they taste good.
05:57What about the teas when you had a cough?
05:59I tried it, didn't try it again.
06:00Didn't?
06:01No, I still have them in my residence.
06:03Okay.
06:04But you kept going back to her shop.
06:06Yes.
06:07His friend came with a gun in a box and the defendant showed up with visible scratches
06:15and a bloodshot eye.
06:16The client said, you know, I was going to kill him last night.
06:18We were in bed and I saw spirits on him.
06:21Robin Bragg claims her former client, Andrew Deal,
06:35owes for cleansing services after he fraudulently reversed the credit card charges.
06:41And tell me, how did this subject of cleansing your house come up?
06:45Just different stuff going on there.
06:48Yeah, but what made you think that your house should have a cleansing?
06:53She's very convincing.
06:55No, but you seem like a smart guy.
06:58There had to be something in the air in your house.
07:02Did somebody die there?
07:04Actually, yes.
07:06Before I got there, someone had passed.
07:08That's what usually triggers it.
07:10And what is it that suggests to you that some of that spirit still remained?
07:15Come on.
07:16Honestly, every once in a while, just kind of weird things happen.
07:19Like what?
07:20But it wasn't anything.
07:21Like what?
07:21Noises that you wouldn't.
07:23That you couldn't explain.
07:25Right.
07:25Things that you couldn't explain.
07:26You think like there's an owl and then I go outside, look for an owl.
07:29There's no owl.
07:30And it's just, yeah, it sounds cuckoo.
07:32So I would hear stuff sometimes.
07:35I'm like, I don't know what that is.
07:36Okay.
07:37So there was a reason to have this conversation with her about cleansing.
07:42Correct.
07:42Okay, do you remember when that conversation took place?
07:45Uh, early March.
07:46Did she ever come to your house?
07:48No, she never did.
07:49How did she get your credit card?
07:50Oh, because I provided it when I was there at the, uh, her shop.
07:56Okay.
07:56So you had this discussion about coming to the house and cleansing it.
08:00And she did give you a price and you did give her your credit card.
08:04Correct.
08:04And what was the price?
08:05$806.
08:06And did you make an appointment for her?
08:09I did originally.
08:11What date was she supposed to come?
08:12It's like two to four days later.
08:15Okay.
08:15And why didn't she come?
08:17Because I kind of came to my senses and kind of didn't think I needed it.
08:22Didn't make sense.
08:23And then I went back to the T scenario.
08:26I'm like, that stuff didn't work.
08:27So I would have paid for something that when this stuff didn't work.
08:30Okay.
08:31So she was supposed to come to your house.
08:33How many days after he signed the credit card?
08:36Two days.
08:37And it was an invoice.
08:38I have a copy.
08:39May I see it?
08:39I sent an invoice and he hand keys his card in.
08:41He went back to work.
08:42Just a second.
08:44May I see the invoice?
08:46Do you have an invoice from her?
08:48This is the invoice.
08:48I don't, I just have actual transactions from the bank.
08:51And I also have the transaction on my cell phone that shows he had to key his card in.
08:55And I have the time.
08:56No, no.
08:56He was at work.
08:57I have the text message conversation also.
08:59Just a second, just a second.
09:01Just one second.
09:03So he gave you $806?
09:05Correct.
09:06How much did you get back, sir?
09:08Uh, $295.62.
09:10That's not correct.
09:11Initially, that's what I refunded him when he canceled his service.
09:14But the charge back, he charged back $510.63.
09:18He originally tried to get the full amount, even though I had already refunded him his portion.
09:23Okay, just a second.
09:24So he got back in total $295.62?
09:29Is that what you got back, sir?
09:31No, she originally refunded me the $295.62.
09:34That's why I called my credit card company.
09:36Okay.
09:36And then they refunded me the rest.
09:38Only because after I did the cleansing for his guy friend,
09:42he told me that since the guy friend felt better and the house was fixed,
09:45he no longer needed his cleansing.
09:47Hold on a second.
09:48What about this guy friend?
09:49So he's a friend that introduced me to her.
09:51Okay.
09:52That was the one I was telling you originally.
09:53Just a second.
09:54A friend of yours.
09:55Yes, ma'am.
09:56Where does he live?
09:57He lives at his place.
09:59Okay.
09:59He doesn't come to your place?
10:01Yeah, he does every once in a while, yes, ma'am.
10:03So he comes to your place for what?
10:06Just hanging out with friends.
10:07Okay.
10:08Does he ever stay there?
10:09He has before, yes, ma'am.
10:10Does he do currently?
10:12No, ma'am.
10:12Stay there?
10:13And so he was a friend of yours.
10:15How did your friend of yours become involved with her?
10:18He's the one that originally introduced me to her.
10:21Oh, fine.
10:22So he introduced you to her.
10:23Correct.
10:24And what does your $806 have to do with your friend?
10:28Because she's stating that I paid for his service and my service, which I didn't.
10:33I was under the impression I was paying for my service.
10:35I have the text messages.
10:35Shh, shh.
10:36Just a second.
10:37Well, what's removal and protection?
10:40What is that, madam?
10:41That is, the defendant was supposed to get a removal and protection.
10:46And his guy friend was supposed to get a removal and protection.
10:49Oh, that's what I thought.
10:51Because one says two.
10:52Yes.
10:52And one says one home cleaning, which was?
10:56The friend's house.
10:56The friend's house, not yours.
10:58Correct.
10:59Okay.
10:59Is there any reason why you paid for your friend?
11:02No, ma'am.
11:03I was under the impression I was paying for mine.
11:05And then when I canceled mine, may I see it, please?
11:11Okay.
11:16You actually went to his friend's house?
11:18Correct.
11:19Okay.
11:19And that was $275.
11:22For the friend, it was $510.63, because the friend also got a person cleansing.
11:28Well, that has nothing to do with him.
11:31That's what's included in his charge.
11:33The return policy?
11:35Was this put on before or after the return policy?
11:39It's always been there.
11:40Okay.
11:41But this was there because you did, in fact, refund $295.
11:44Correct.
11:45But I let him know I was making an exception.
11:46I also have the policy that's posted within the store.
11:49You never went to his place?
11:51No, I never went to the defendant's house.
11:53Okay.
11:54And you did go to his friend's house?
11:56Yes.
11:57I did a house cleansing, and I did the protection and removal on the friend.
12:00So I did two services at his house.
12:02And tell me why you believe that he had agreed to pay for his friends.
12:07Because I have the text message history that shows that.
12:09He came into the office.
12:11When he presented on March 18th, they came.
12:14His friend came with a gun and a box.
12:16And the defendant showed up with visible scratches and a bloodshot eye.
12:21I thought to treat what I physically saw.
12:23But then the client explained what was going on.
12:26This is how the house cleansing came about.
12:28It's because the client was having a mental episode and was telling me that they were in
12:32bed the night before, and he saw spirits on the defendant.
12:35Who told you that?
12:36He did or was the client?
12:37The client.
12:37This is how the cleansing was initially set up.
12:40They both showed up to the office, and the client had a gun and a box.
12:44And I began to try to talk him out of the situation.
12:46And the client said, you know, I was going to kill him last night.
12:48We were in bed.
12:49And I saw spirits on him.
12:51This is why I went to clean the client's house first.
12:54It was because he was the one who was having the most obvious things going on mentally.
12:59OK.
13:03They both came in the door together.
13:04He had visible scratches and everything.
13:06And I asked him, was he going to go to work looking like that?
13:08How'd you get the scratches on you?
13:10Bickering.
13:11Bickering.
13:11Bickering, fighting, going back and forth.
13:13With whom?
13:14With your friend.
13:15Yes, ma'am.
13:24Robyn Bragg is accusing her former client, Andrew Deal, of refusing to pay for her cleansing
13:33services and fraudulently reversing the credit card charges.
13:37OK, what else?
13:38So I booked the appointment for that.
13:40And I'm asking to do the consult, which it says on the website, none of these services
13:44can be booked without a consult.
13:45I must talk face to face with you, and you must OK it.
13:48So the defendant had to go back to work.
13:50He went to work.
13:51I proceeded to have the consult with the client.
13:53And we set up the appointment for me to come out and cleanse.
13:57So as I'm cleansing the house and I do the protection and everything, when I'm done.
14:00Yeah, but you haven't been paid yet by anybody.
14:02He paid the invoice later on that day.
14:04The text message history shows me showing him a preview of the invoice and asking him.
14:08He paid it after his friend's premises and person were cleansed.
14:13Before.
14:14I had to do a consult.
14:16So during the consult, I sent the defendant the preview of the invoice asking,
14:20is this OK?
14:21Is this what you want?
14:22Yeah.
14:23And he replied, I won't be available.
14:26I'm working.
14:27But he will be ready for you.
14:28Yes.
14:29For his place.
14:30And all I can come to you one this afternoon or so for my thing, then the apartment,
14:36you can do mine.
14:37Or he might be able to take you to my place after you're done with his.
14:41Correct.
14:42So it's clear from that, sir, that this was something that you and your friend together
14:49were doing.
14:49No.
14:50So what she just stated before, I knew nothing of that.
14:52Of what?
14:53What?
14:54The incident or her and him talking about seeing what it goes.
14:59I don't know whether she's...
15:00Right.
15:01I don't know.
15:01Your friend brought you there because evidently there had been an episode.
15:05He had me come there afterwards.
15:07Are you there because there had been an episode?
15:09Is that accurate?
15:10Yes, ma'am.
15:10Okay.
15:11And clearly from this, that episode was the reason that she was going to your friend's house.
15:18Yes, ma'am.
15:18And you were present when the episode happened.
15:23I was present when the episode happened.
15:25When the episode with your friend that brought him to her happened with a gun in a box.
15:33No, ma'am.
15:34I don't know anything about a gun in a box.
15:36This is the first time I'm hearing from that on her saying that.
15:39Were you with your friend when you initially went to see her that day about the cleansing?
15:45Were you with your friend?
15:47I came that afternoon and met them, yes.
15:49You were there with him?
15:50Yes, ma'am.
15:51In the same place?
15:52The three of you were there together?
15:54Yes, ma'am.
15:54Yes, ma'am.
15:55Did he have a box with him?
15:57No, ma'am.
15:58I don't know any of that.
15:59That's what I'm saying.
15:59This is the first time I'm hearing.
16:00I'm just asking you whether he had a box with him.
16:02No, ma'am.
16:03Not that I know of.
16:04The box was inside of a black backpack.
16:06They both came in the door together.
16:08He had visible scratches and everything.
16:09And I asked him, was he going to go to work looking like that?
16:12Like, what happened?
16:13You're going to go present yourself like this at work?
16:15Because he works at a car dealership.
16:16How did you get the scratches on you?
16:19Bickering.
16:20Bickering?
16:21Bickering, fighting, going back and forth.
16:22With whom?
16:24With your friend?
16:24Yeah.
16:25Yes, ma'am.
16:26Was the entire 806 returned to you?
16:28Not initially.
16:29It was later on when she gave the initial for mine.
16:34And then the superior one came back.
16:36Yes, ma'am.
16:37The 510.
16:38All the charges were reversed?
16:39Initially.
16:40So the only...
16:41What happened was...
16:42But then it was ultimately reversed?
16:43Yes.
16:44The entire 806.25?
16:47Yes.
16:48OK.
16:48Unpaid service.
16:49Lost wages.
16:50What lost wages did you have?
16:52My shop is family owned.
16:54I am the only owner.
16:55So when I'm not there, nobody can be there because I'm the master herbalist and I take care of everything.
16:59But you're getting paid for being out.
17:00You're getting your 806.
17:01There's no question in my mind that you've earned it and that he's not being 100% honest with me.
17:07Yes.
17:08So inside of that is also punitive damages and emotional distress because this was a case of fraud.
17:12He initially charged back the whole $810 and he knew he had already been refunded 30 days prior.
17:19He waited a whole month from the date of this service and filed a charge back.
17:23That was fraudulent activity.
17:24No, I deny, Your Honor.
17:25I have the original report that shows the day he did it.
17:29Listen to me.
17:30You're out, 806.
17:32Correct.
17:33That's what you're getting from him because you're entitled to it.
17:36And then what about my emotional distress?
17:39This is my second year in business.
17:41Well, you're in business.
17:42So I guarantee you if you've been in business for two years that you have a clientele,
17:46that you continue to serve your clientele.
17:49There's no indication that he has posted anything defamatory about you.
17:53It's not alleged in your complaint.
17:55Correct.
17:56Because I haven't went looking, but that was enough.
17:58Well, listen.
17:59That damaged my reputation.
18:00My company, my registered company will no longer allow me to get hardware on credit
18:05because of this charge back.
18:06I don't know that.
18:07Do you have proof of that?
18:08I can pull it up.
18:10I've only been in a brick and mortar shop for two years.
18:12So what he did damaged my reputation with the actual company.
18:15They won't give me any more credit because he filed a charge back.
18:18Well, in any event, this is what you're going to do with...
18:22Are you listening to me, Ms. Bragg?
18:23Yes.
18:23This is what you're going to do.
18:24You're going to take a copy of this judgment and send it to this particular credit card company
18:30and say that you've been to small claims court.
18:32You sued him.
18:32The judge found in your favor and returned the $806.25,
18:37establishing that he was wrong for getting his money back.
18:42Do you understand?
18:42Mm-hmm.
18:43Okay.
18:43Judgment for the plaintiff in the amount of $806.25.
18:46We're finished here.
18:47This court is adjourned.
18:52I don't really know what to say.
18:54I feel like she was making up stuff as she went along.
18:56I'm very happy with the judgment.
18:58She saw straight through the defendant's lies.
19:00It just doesn't make sense.
19:01I came kind of to my senses and didn't want to deal with it.
19:03Just moving forward in life, we all need to learn.
19:06When we pay for a service, the person needs to be paid.
19:08And if you're dissatisfied, you need to communicate that.
19:11Honestly, I think the whole thing is just a whole bunch of
19:14made-up stuff people want to do and try to get money off it.
19:17The line gets us nowhere in the long run.
19:21Now, I forgot the name of it, but how did you know about that?
19:25Ayahuasca.
19:26Hocus Pocus, ayahuasca.
19:28I've never personally done it, but there was an athlete that came out not too long ago talking
19:33about his experience with doing it.
19:36And from what I gather, what I understand from it, it's sort of like a psychedelic tea that you drink
19:41that's supposed to, like the plaintiff said, aid in sort of depression and other mental health
19:47issues.
19:48And it can unlock areas of your mind.
19:51I'm not sure you throw up a lot.
19:53It doesn't sound like a great experience, not something I would sign up for personally.
19:57But for him, he said he discovered a lot through the experience and it was very healing.
20:02So I think, you know, coming into this case, I think we both had a little bit of a slant as
20:06to who the plaintiff was going to be.
20:08Some, you know, like you said out there, a hocus pocus sort of snake oil salesman of sorts.
20:14But she was very educated and I was impressed.
20:16Oh yeah, I was impressed with her.
20:18With her credentials of not only schooling, but a familial sort of tradition of providing services.
20:24Yeah, of healing.
20:26And again, I think the defendant was not snookered in any way.
20:29He knew what he was signing up for.
20:31He obviously believed in it enough to pay for it at the time.
20:34He knew what he was getting.
20:35So I think the right thing happened.
20:36I think she got her money back.
20:37He shouldn't have reversed the charge.
20:39I think, can you have buyer's remorse with crystals just as much as you can with anything else?
20:43Absolutely.
20:43Absolutely.
20:44Yeah, you can also get a shot for something and you don't feel well.
20:48But that doesn't mean you reverse the medical charge.
20:50You can't reverse the charge to the doctor.
20:51Yeah, right.
20:51So, you know, he knew what he was getting.
20:53She never misrepresented what she was doing.
20:56You know what you're getting by looking at her and listening to her.
20:58So I think the right thing happened.
20:59I hope so.
21:00Yeah.
21:02Have you been cheated?
21:03Go to judyjustice.tv
21:06You know what I like to eat?
21:07We know maybe there's some things that happens drawer.
21:09You don't know when she does…
21:09You can't take a shot or just待って her.
21:10I can't take a shot.
21:11I think if she wants to help her you're using another class backup room,
21:19they're Unooli, what does not let you know when they'm getting out of here?
21:23Yeah.
21:25Transcription by CastingWords
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