- 1 week ago
Proverbs 30 is one of the most unique chapters in the book of Proverbs, filled with humility, mystery, and repeated numerical sayings—especially the recurring pattern of "three things… even four." In this discussion, the Common Sense Bible Study crew walk carefully through Agur’s observations, exploring why Scripture uses these sets of four and what they reveal about God’s order, human limitation, and the way wisdom is embedded in creation itself.
We examine the four things that are never satisfied, four things that are too wonderful to understand, four small things that display great wisdom, and four things that move with stately grace. Along the way, we consider how these observations confront human pride, expose misplaced confidence, and call us back to reverence for the Creator rather than trust in our own understanding.
This conversation is less about abstract poetry and more about learning how to see the world the way Scripture trains us to see it: with humility, discernment, and a recognition that true wisdom begins with knowing our place before God.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Follow me on X: https://jaycarper.com/twitter
Follow me on Facebook: https://jaycarper.com/fbat
We examine the four things that are never satisfied, four things that are too wonderful to understand, four small things that display great wisdom, and four things that move with stately grace. Along the way, we consider how these observations confront human pride, expose misplaced confidence, and call us back to reverence for the Creator rather than trust in our own understanding.
This conversation is less about abstract poetry and more about learning how to see the world the way Scripture trains us to see it: with humility, discernment, and a recognition that true wisdom begins with knowing our place before God.
From Jay Carper at Common Sense Bible Study (https://CommonSenseBibleStudy.com) and American Torah (https://www.AmericanTorah.com).
This content is free, but I accept contributions via Paypal at https://jaycarper.com/paypal.
Follow me on X: https://jaycarper.com/twitter
Follow me on Facebook: https://jaycarper.com/fbat
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00:00all right proverbs 30 and i put the subtitle of these four things
00:00:09now if you've read the chapter the reason why will be obvious
00:00:12there are actually six sets of four things in this chapter one of them isn't labeled but it's
00:00:20just a series of four things the other ones start out with something like there are three things
00:00:25that are like this four that are like that and it's just kind of a peculiar way of starting a
00:00:31series of statements of things that are like i don't know i don't know why that it's worded that
00:00:37way but it and if it's meant to separate three of them and have an extra one that's adding something
00:00:44i don't think it is i think it's just these are four things and for whatever reason some poetic
00:00:50device they started with there are three things oh no wait four things uh kind of like a monty python
00:00:56skit this chapter has a very different character from the rest of proverbs you know the way that
00:01:02things are worded the way that that qualities are grouped together in these sets of four
00:01:07some of these things written by a different person too jay yeah i think it is you know some people say
00:01:15that agur is solomon or yake is solomon no this doesn't sound like solomon to me at all
00:01:21and i looked at the meaning of these names and agur means gathered or gatherer solomon was a gatherer
00:01:31of knowledge you know wealth wisdom animal knowledge all kinds of stuff uh he was a naturalist and a
00:01:37scientist of a sort in his day but king hezekiah was also a gatherer and in fact the previous five
00:01:44chapters uh were gathered by hezekiah so i wonder if this might be written by king hezekiah
00:01:51yake means blameless who is the son of blameless well hezekiah's king wasn't blameless solomon's i
00:02:02mean hezekiah's father wasn't blameless solomon's father is called blameless in scripture mostly because
00:02:09of the state of the state of his heart and you know his his repentance not because he wasn't he never
00:02:14did anything wrong but in a way hezekiah is also a son of david because he is in that line of david
00:02:21the rest of this verse you know king james reads
00:02:25uh the words of agur son of yake even the prophecy the man spake unto itiel even unto itiel and who
00:02:33call so the king james and some other translations are trans are assuming that some of these phrases
00:02:40are actually names and not you know phrases that have other meaning frequently names have those other
00:02:49meanings too so both readings could be correct he could be talking about specific people maybe his
00:02:55own sons i believe if i remember right manasseh was hezekiah's son wasn't he and manasseh was one
00:03:02of israel's worst kings uh at least at the beginning of his reign you mean he was joseph's son
00:03:09manasseh was joseph's son no the other there's a different manasseh oh okay yeah one of the patriarchs
00:03:17manasseh that was joseph's son i get but king manasseh was hezekiah's son okay and you know
00:03:24hezekiah was more or less a righteous king he made a lot of stupid mistakes especially political blunders
00:03:29but he was mostly righteous he tried to do the right thing manasseh on the other hand was 12 years old
00:03:37when he became king threw out all of his father's rules set up all the high places again put idols in
00:03:44the temple and then later towards the end of his life he repented and completely reversed course
00:03:50but if hezekiah was writing this at the end of his life and he sees he's got this 10 or 11 year old boy
00:03:58who doesn't listen to anything has completely rejected all of his moral teaching
00:04:02maybe it's not surprising that he's nicknamed his son itiel i'm weary oh god i'm tired of this kid
00:04:12and so he says the man declares i am weary oh god i'm weary oh god and worn out that's a whole lot of
00:04:19speculation it doesn't say that this is hezekiah son of david and itiel is actually manasseh doesn't
00:04:27say any of that it just since hezekiah was a gatherer of solomon's proverbs just like solomon was
00:04:34and this doesn't read like solomon it seems possible but i haven't found anybody any commentators or
00:04:42anybody who say that anybody knows definitively who wrote this chapter it's just here any other
00:04:50thoughts on this introduction i think the introduction outlines i don't know anything and let me
00:05:00give you some profound things to ponder which seem to be more relevant than what i've concentrated on
00:05:10um i have not learned wisdom well he's presenting these phrases as in my opinion elements of wisdom to
00:05:21just consider and i know nothing like schiltz it's more or less saying it's your character lord is
00:05:32reflected in these items that i'm going to ponder yeah and i think this this thing here you know
00:05:39surely i'm too stupid to be a man i've not i have no understanding i've not learned wisdom this sounds a
00:05:44lot like solomon in ecclesiastes he made a lot of mistakes in his life and that's one of the ways that
00:05:48i think he really learned wisdom was through lots of mistakes and so you know self-denigration saying
00:05:54look at all this stupid stuff i've done you'd think i would have learned something and obviously he has
00:05:58learned something and whoever this is is writing a chapter of proverbs so he does have some wisdom
00:06:05he's just engaging in a little hyperbole saying you know saying he's worthless but on the other hand
00:06:12this could also apply to hezekiah you know hezekiah is the one who you know he made an alliance with
00:06:17king ahab i think it was hezekiah and went to war against moab and made a disaster of things
00:06:25and then he he i think it was uh king of assyria or babylon i don't remember which
00:06:33invaded is or judah and he gave them all the gold and silver of the temple and then he recovered and
00:06:41got a lot more gold and silver and the king of babylon sent an envoy and said hey uh i heard you
00:06:47were sick and i hope you're all better and just wanted to make sure that everything's okay and
00:06:52hezekiah took him on a tour of all the new gold and silver that they had and so along comes the king
00:06:58of babylon and says hey give me all your gold and silver and uh i think one of the whatever prophet
00:07:04was the prophet at the time i don't remember he you know he goes to the king and he says what did
00:07:09you do why did you show this i mean what kind of idiot are you so all this stuff could could apply
00:07:16to hezekiah too all right well oh in chapter or uh verse two there there's an interesting thing here
00:07:24in the hebrew also in the esv it says i'm too stupid to be a man i have not the understanding of a
00:07:30man but he uses two different words there in hebrew the first word is ish or just you know a general
00:07:37human being and the second one is adam and i suspect that he's doing this to say you know i don't even
00:07:46measure up i'm i'm not smart not smart enough like other people like i don't i don't match what a person
00:07:52should be that's the first one and the second one saying i have not the understanding of adam
00:07:57is more like saying being made in the image of god i should know better than this but you know here
00:08:06i am not living up to that image that's what i think he's trying to say yeah verse three when he
00:08:13talks about i am weary oh god and worn out how many times have you been at just the end of yourself
00:08:21and you have to look to a greater being just to assure yourself of that there is a meaning that
00:08:32there is a purpose i think it's beautiful it i can certainly relate uh in terms of it's just so
00:08:43self-deprecating and and it reflects a position that he's at where he's he's now able to learn
00:08:51yeah he actually i think uh a few verses down uh you know he says that god is is so awesome he can do
00:09:03all this stuff and everything he says is true and then in verse six in uh verse seven seven through
00:09:13nine he says two things i ask of you deny them not to me before i die the first one is don't make me
00:09:19a liar and the second one is give me only what i need and i think that this is talking about god's
00:09:27promises uh he's talking about i have i'm trying to trust in god trying to believe what he says
00:09:36so don't wait too long before fulfilling your promises because then i'm going to start doubting
00:09:43don't make me a liar in front of everybody else you have to come and defend your name it's the same
00:09:50kind of appeal that moses made to god when god said uh you know stand aside moses i'm going to
00:09:55wipe all these people out and start over with you and moses responds by saying well what will all the
00:10:00nations think if you do that and you know if you treat your own people like this why should anybody
00:10:05trust in you and i think that that agur is saying the same kind of thing here yeah i mean give me neither
00:10:13poverty nor riches let me be just average because average is not gonna pull on me to sin one way or
00:10:21the other it's a very interesting take most people will want the riches yeah but his concern is more
00:10:29or less let me be not sinning against you lord and i can best be in that position by being average
00:10:37yeah you get too much and you start to trust in yourself instead of god and then if you have too
00:10:43little you start getting bitter and angry and maybe you do stupid things to try to fill those gaps
00:10:51instead of trusting in god and i think that's another point in favor hezekiah being the author of
00:10:57that you know yeah solomon uh you know he in ecclesiastes he kind of decried his wealth
00:11:03you know he said that you know it got him into so much trouble but i don't think he ever really
00:11:08complained about having a ton of money uh it's not what he asked for but you know he didn't seem to
00:11:15be upset by having it he put it to well good and bad use but i think i think this is another thing that
00:11:22that points towards hezekiah being the author of this chapter because hezekiah really screwed up with
00:11:28money and if he you know he got he had money and then he lost it then he got more money and then he
00:11:35lost it again and each time it was because he was relying on himself instead of on god and saying
00:11:42you know look how great i've done and let me show all the other kings how great i've done and then
00:11:47they just come and take it away from god puts you back in your place through those other kings
00:11:52let's go back up to uh verse four this is a famous one who has ascended to heaven and come down who
00:12:00has gathered the wind in his fists was wrapped up the waters in a garment established all the ends of
00:12:04the earth what is his name and what is his son's name surely you know it really it reminds me of
00:12:11job 38 i think got it written down here somewhere yeah job 38 and isaiah 40 where you know job is
00:12:20complaining and saying god why are you why are you doing all this stuff to me and god responds like
00:12:24where were you when i created the heavens and the earth how do you know you know what my plan is my
00:12:30my perspective is broader than yours i know more than you and this feels very similar to that he's
00:12:38underscoring just how powerful god is so far beyond anything we can comprehend
00:12:44what is the reference to son what do you think well i think that there's a prophetic point to this
00:12:51proverb also okay that he's not just saying on the one hand you know if you ask a rabbi what this means
00:12:58he's saying what do you really know about god you know god doesn't have a son but how do you know
00:13:04that and you know it's just another way of saying you don't know anything about god even if you think
00:13:11you do but i think that really this whole verse points to yeshua who has ascended to heaven and come
00:13:19down yeshua came down and he ascended to heaven and he's going to come back down again
00:13:23who has gathered the wind in his fists and wrapped up the waters in a garment makes me think of yeshua
00:13:29calming the storm he commanded the wind and the waves to to be still and they were but he also
00:13:37created everything paul says that through him everything that was created was created well paul
00:13:43and john both say that in different words and you know wrapped up the waters in a garment this could be a
00:13:49picturesque way of talking about the firmament or the clouds in the in the sky or could be talking
00:13:55about the earth itself as a garment and how the waters are wrapped up in the garment of the earth
00:13:59who has established all the ends of the earth well everything that was created was created through
00:14:04yeshua but this could also be translated who has established the boundaries of the lands
00:14:09so yeshua as king of kings also dictates which king has authority over which province and so he sets
00:14:21the boundaries of all the nations and god did that after the flood with the table of nations and
00:14:26genesis he kind of split everything up and even later when israel was coming out of egypt god was
00:14:34telling them don't go over here because that's those people's land and you can take this one because
00:14:39i've taken it away and given it to you god is the one who establishes all this and then when it says
00:14:45what is his name and what is his son's name well we know the labels that we give to god so we can say
00:14:52that yod he vav he is god's name but his name is so much more than that his name is wrapped up in all
00:14:58of his covenants and promises and his commandments and you know it's all of who he is and how can we
00:15:05possibly wrap our minds around all of that god is way too big for us but what is his son's name
00:15:12well we know what his son's name is it's salvation yeshua but they are one in the same you know the
00:15:19the father and the son are one if you've seen me you've seen the father you know as yeshua said that
00:15:24although you know as yeshua as the one through whom the world was created
00:15:30it gets a little confusing about you know who established the ends of the earth the father or
00:15:36the son they act in unison so one carries out the orders of the other so really both i'm pretty sure
00:15:44that that's all included in that and i don't know if agar intended for that to be the meaning
00:15:49but i think that god intended that to be there well it comes right after the i am i am nothing
00:15:56and it's pointing to god is you you you got quite a lot going on there you know i was looking in verse
00:16:06three where it says uh i have no knowledge of the holy one i think it literally just says i have no
00:16:12knowledge of the holy but it uses a singular noun so holy one is a good translation it just literally
00:16:18doesn't say it oh no it does it is plural katashima da what does that mean to know yeah this word right
00:16:27here is katashim and that is the plural for holy so it literally says holy ones i wonder what's why
00:16:35it's always translated the holy or the holy one interesting but that does naturally go into verse
00:16:42four what is his name and what is his son's name and who is the you surely you know yeah i don't know
00:16:51whoever he's talking to trying to see if there are any commentaries on that i didn't really think about
00:16:56that one i do not know some of these commentaries are so long takes forever to find anything all right
00:17:04verse five and six i think are also good they say a lot about it informs some new testament terminology
00:17:13every word of god proves true he is a shield to those who take refuge in him and i think this is
00:17:19really the essence of what it means to believe in god or to believe in his name so when the new
00:17:25when the new testament talks about you know if you believe in god you will be saved or if you call
00:17:30on the name of the lord you'll be saved i think this is what it's talking about
00:17:34it means that you believe his word is true if you believe in his name then you believe his
00:17:40covenants his promises you believe his instructions are for your good i think that's really the essence
00:17:46of it in verse six do not add to his words lest he rebuke you and you be found a liar this is the
00:17:54essence of what it means to take god's name in vain i guess i mean that's not really so much a new
00:17:59testament concept of course but people get very confused about this commandment you know you shall
00:18:06not take the name of the lord your god in vain they think you know using god or jesus or something
00:18:14like that as a an expletive is taking his name in vain and it's certainly misusing it i'm not going to
00:18:22say that it's not a violation of that command but that's really the smallest kind of violation what
00:18:27it's really talking about is uh misrepresenting him saying that like this guy on that i was telling
00:18:35you about on the billboard earlier putting all these prophecies out there saying god told me this
00:18:41i can't really say whether or not god told him that or not because i don't think i don't think this
00:18:48was on the recording earlier but for those who are listening later there's a guy out there on the
00:18:54internet and i'm not going to give the website address he has published hundreds and hundreds of
00:18:58pages of prophecies that god has given him saying thus saith the lord but most of them are so vague
00:19:06you know some of them reiterate commands that are in scripture do this don't do that you you people are
00:19:13really screwing up in this way and there's nothing necessarily wrong with that but one of the ways that
00:19:18we are to judge a prophet is by the predictions that he makes in his prophecies you know that's
00:19:25that's not the sole purpose of prophecy it's not even the main purpose but eventually a prophet has
00:19:31to say something about what is going to happen you know god's going to make a promise or he's going to
00:19:37pronounce a curse and if it doesn't come to pass then you don't have to listen to that prophet anymore
00:19:42but as far as i can tell this guy has never made any statements like that it's all just
00:19:47here's what god says this commandment means or you people in america are doing this and that's the
00:19:55wrong thing you need to straighten up and do this other thing which you know may or may not be correct
00:19:59the problem is representing this as this was a divine this is a word given directly from god to me
00:20:06for you if that's not true then that is taking god's name in vain that is misrepresenting god by
00:20:13putting words in his mouth and likewise taking words away like when god says keep the sabbath day
00:20:21and this is you know for the sake of my name keep the sabbath day and then people say well jesus is our
00:20:29sabbath now so we don't have to keep the sabbath and god says that's all done away with except he didn't
00:20:34say that that is nowhere in scripture so that too is taking god's name in vain by taking things away
00:20:42from what god has said um you know those are two ideas that i think a lot of modern christians get
00:20:48confused about you know the idea like what does it mean to believe in god and what does it mean to
00:20:53take his name in vain in these two verses i think explain those very well i kind of went off on a
00:20:59soliloquy there but if anybody else has anything to add to that please do
00:21:04or if not we can move on okay we kind of talked about eight and nine already uh let's move down to
00:21:13verse 10 do not slander a servant to his master lest he curse you and you be held guilty what do you
00:21:19think this is talking about guilty of what and what kind of curse is it talking about i think this is
00:21:26presuming there to be a righteous and good relationship between the server or the servant and the master
00:21:33and if you are backstabbing the servant unto the master or if you're saying something that's
00:21:42slanderous about the servant and the master has an understanding of his servant i think his ire is
00:21:50going to be uh more towards you than to his servant do you think the lest he curse you is referring to the
00:21:57master yes okay yeah that's a i think that's a valid way to read that i hadn't thought of it i was
00:22:04thinking that it was the servant cursing him but yeah it might be more it might make more sense if
00:22:10that's the master but you have to have that proper relationship between the servant the master
00:22:15so when eliezer goes out to find a a bride for isaac was eliezer prize yeah i got it right um i think if
00:22:30you if somebody were to have gone to abraham and basically undercut eliezer abraham's response would
00:22:42have been along these lines you know no i know my servant he's going to do what my asking was
00:22:47why are you coming against my servant yeah and you know ideally a good master is working to improve
00:22:55his servant and you know he's teaching him he's preparing him to be on his own at least if this is
00:23:01a hebrew and coming into that relationship and trying to poison it i think that is a serious thing
00:23:08and bringing that kind of into uh kind of spiritualizing it a little bit this could also
00:23:16be someone who is misrepresenting god who is you know going to like a false teacher someone who is
00:23:25going to a congregation and saying you're not supposed to do this and you're supposed to do that
00:23:32when it's actually the opposite of what scripture says and you can kind of see this in the pharisees
00:23:37in when yeshua had these uh confrontations with the pharisees and sadducees and and the apostles
00:23:45talk about it also in acts 15 when they talk about the burden that was too heavy for our ancestors to
00:23:49bear that was definitely not god's law because god said the opposite he said it was not too hard for you
00:23:55but these are the all the rules and rituals and things that they had added on top of god's law
00:24:02and you know the pharisees were essentially telling everybody you are worthless you are no good
00:24:09and you can never live up to god's law unless you do everything perfect
00:24:13but this is it's you know whether this is slander against god or against the servant one of the
00:24:21whichever it's still putting a stumbling block in front of people so that it's disrupting their
00:24:26relationship with god it's making them feel like they can never really approach god without the help of
00:24:32these other people and what happened is the master god cursed them and he removed them from their
00:24:40authority and replaced them with a different set of jewish leaders okay i'll get i will get this is
00:24:48going to be a little touchy okay okay the if i understand correctly and i certainly will
00:24:56claim ignorance because i'm not well studied in this but the muslim tradition is that yeshua is the prophet
00:25:07or a prophet not necessarily the son of god which is in my estimation counter to what the bible is saying
00:25:17so if that is presented and causes someone to stumble i would think god would have more of an issue
00:25:31with that presentation than with the person that's stumbling in other words you are demeaning my servant
00:25:42yeshua although their presentation is not necessarily demeaning but still you are not acknowledging him
00:25:51as my son and therefore any curse would would go towards that type of teaching rather than the person that
00:26:04stumbled does that make sense yeah i think i don't remember the specific proverbs we've seen several
00:26:09proverbs already where it talks about how if a leader a ruler is leading the people astray then the
00:26:16ruler is responsible for that you know everybody's responsible for their own sin but the ruler is held
00:26:21doubly responsible right and there's also the um the prophecy and you know once again i don't remember
00:26:29which prophet it was or where it was but saying that uh you know if you don't warn your brother
00:26:34you are guilty of his blood so if you don't warn him that he's doing something wrong and of course
00:26:39that would carry over to if you tell him something wrong then you are guilty of his blood all right so
00:26:47verse 11 there are those who curse their fathers and do not bless their oh well actually verse verse 11
00:26:53through uh 14 is the first set of four i don't think it it doesn't really qualify as a plot train because
00:27:01that's a a literary structure whereas this is i don't know what do you what do you call a set of
00:27:08four not really a quadruplet but anyways it's a set of four i'll just stick with that so all of these
00:27:16go together i think king james yeah says there's a generation there's a generation that curses their
00:27:23father and does not bless their mother a generation and i'm pretty sure that excuse me that is the literal
00:27:30word excuse me it's not saying oh it's door a period age generation habitation but i don't think
00:27:45it's literally talking about like a all the people who live at a single span of time you know like we
00:27:52talk about the silent generation boomers gen x etc i don't think that's what it's talking about i think
00:27:59it means that there is a kind of person which is how the esv renders it there are those who
00:28:05it's not a literal translation but i think that carries the meaning across
00:28:09so i was warning about these four kinds of people and those who curse their fathers and don't bless
00:28:16their mothers those who are clean in their own eyes and are not washed of their filth there are those
00:28:23who are proud you know lofty in their own eyes and put up their nose at everybody and those whose
00:28:29teeth are swords and fangs are knives to devour the poor from off the earth and once again this is about
00:28:35people who are proud who think they're better than other people at least that that seems to be the
00:28:39common denominator between these four to me what do you think it's a juxtaposition against how he
00:28:46started out he starts out surely i'm a stupid i'm too stupid to be a man i have no understanding
00:28:52of a man i have not learned wisdom i have no knowledge of the holy one and then it's presenting
00:29:00these characteristics of people that are sort of full of themselves they're not humble he's he's humble
00:29:08and he's saying these characteristics are not humble not desirable and um don't emulate them
00:29:17yeah that's interesting as you were reading that i also realized that there that's another set of four
00:29:24i'm more brutish than any man i have not the understanding of a man i have not learned wisdom
00:29:30i don't have knowledge of the holy one yeah so there's another four that goes
00:29:35whether it's intended to be to go you know to correspond to these four you're right that it is
00:29:43a juxtaposition on the one he's being very humble in his approach and now he's describing people who
00:29:49are very proud so what about that first one in verse 11 there are those who curse their fathers
00:29:54and do not bless their mothers what is how is that showing pride it's a commandment you are not
00:30:02fulfilling or you're not following one of the ten commandments yeah not honoring your father and
00:30:08your mother and i think it shows a um a tendency to believe that you know better than your parents
00:30:15you know if you're cursing your father and not blessing your mother it means that you've rejected
00:30:21the things that they taught you and you know when when we're young we almost all think that we know
00:30:27better than our parents at least about something and it takes you know time and suffering to fix that
00:30:34but this is not the normal kind of teenage rebellion this is a this is a pathological pride
00:30:43and it's what is behind the political philosophy of progressivism and you know there are some ways in
00:30:52which we should be progressive in that we should be progressing towards more close alignment with
00:30:58yeshua living more like he lived but that's not really what progressive means at least not in this
00:31:03century in uh in the 19th century essentially progressive did mean well for most people it meant
00:31:12you know being more understanding more kind or open to your neighbors that kind of thing
00:31:18although i mean marxism was on the rise at the time so i'm sure they picked up some of that from
00:31:25there but throughout the 20th century and then today what progressivism actually means is throwing
00:31:32out the past because we know better all of our ancestors were totally evil because they did this
00:31:39one thing that we can identify where we're better than they were which means we must be better in every
00:31:45way than they were so we curse our fathers and we don't bless our mothers and here we are jay it
00:31:53almost goes hand in hand with the garden you know when when adam e were kicked out they had certain
00:32:01attitudes which manifested because of they're not listening and and and not following what the father
00:32:11father you say father and mother if you want to use elohim but um you know it's you act like this
00:32:19there are consequences and it's somewhat along those lines in my my eyes at least yeah yeah they the
00:32:29certain sorry the serpent certainly convinced them that they knew better than god or that they were
00:32:35capable of knowing better and so you know if you ignore what god said then you're going to be
00:32:41smarter than god that never worked out adam's response to god about the woman that you gave me
00:32:46do this yeah he's more like saying i'm cleaning i'm cleaning my eyes it's your fault god
00:32:54yeah that's that's a good observation he was still insisting that he knew better than god
00:33:00he was the uh towards a little bit later on it mentions the adulteress who
00:33:05you know wipes her mouth and says i've done nothing wrong that was adam
00:33:09yeah right literally in that case okay um let's go down to the leech the leech has two daughters
00:33:21give and give three things are never satisfied four never say enough yeah each one of these
00:33:28sets of four seems to be introduced in a slightly different way you know the the first set was just
00:33:34like saying here i am here's my qualities or lack of qualities then the second one is you know here
00:33:42are these other people and their qualities and then we get to the leech where it says the leech has two
00:33:48daughters but there are three things never satisfied and four that never say enough so now he's counting
00:33:54so the four things sheol a parched land oh a barren womb i missed that one and a fire
00:34:02some of these are pretty obvious it's easier i think to point out how they're different i mean
00:34:09obviously they're all the same in that they all desire something that they can't have or that they
00:34:14don't have you know sheol the grave it's not a physical place as far as we know and physical
00:34:22people don't go there but spirits go there and there have been billions of people who lived and
00:34:28died and they're all going to sheol and i doubt that sheol could ever be full no matter how i mean
00:34:36if the human race lasted for another million years and trillions upon trillions of people lived and died
00:34:42they could all fit in sheol comfortably is probably not the right word but sheol would still not be full
00:34:49the barren womb is a little bit different in that it wants to be full it wants to have a baby but
00:34:57can't okay hold on there all right a quiver is full when there's a certain number of offspring right
00:35:06i think it's six seven like that at least that's the uh illusion that's made today's society
00:35:13it makes it almost a barrenness allows for promiscuity our society is promoting promiscuity
00:35:28so our society has a propensity to advocate for the barren womb which is very interesting because you
00:35:37see the the state of our society today i think that the initial go forth and and take dominion
00:35:47i think that was a one of god's initial marching orders that has been twisted and corrupted
00:35:54so that we are not necessarily taking communion a dominion but we are looking for good time we are
00:36:02looking to satisfy our lusts and desires and equating that with with what god wants because what god wants
00:36:13is to be happy right so i'm just observing that statement and juxtaposing it on our current culture
00:36:20yeah yeah it is twisted how the world wants to tell you that your womb should be barren like having
00:36:28kids is wrong like why are you so selfish is to keep populating the earth when we really just need to
00:36:34all die off but it's not our nature and you know people who uh you know there's some people who are
00:36:41barren just because you know god has closed their womb or they've got some health issue something um
00:36:48what you're describing are people who you know deliberately sterilize themselves
00:36:54um or you know take birth control or do whatever because they just don't want to have children
00:36:59they end up paying for that at some point you know whether because their health consequences for
00:37:05not bearing children when you're young or emotional consequences of not having that part of your
00:37:12of your purpose being fulfilled and you know we make up for it in various ways by you know trying to
00:37:19you know a woman who hasn't born children may try to find other children metaphorically speaking you
00:37:27know maybe she adopts or maybe she goes into a profession yeah i don't mean to be singling anybody
00:37:36out that's not my point but you go into a profession where you're caring for people going to nursing or
00:37:42some other health care profession or you become a teacher you know these kinds of things that help you
00:37:47fill this this void of wanting to nurture and if you don't do it you know if you go into business
00:37:55and you're a uh you know you're a lawyer or something like that where or a ceo of some big company you
00:38:04never have children because you're busy running your business you're either going to start running your
00:38:09business looking for ways to nurture either the people or the business treat like a child
00:38:14or you're going to suffer psychological consequences of just
00:38:18cutting that part of your life out when it's central to who you are supposed to be
00:38:25my armchair psychology
00:38:28very good i'm really just imagining the way the things should be based on how i know that god created
00:38:35people i'm obviously not qualified to be psychoanalyzing the world
00:38:39so you're going back to verse two then right yes surely i'm more brutish than any man
00:38:46or woman although i've known some women who are pretty brutish that's another way in which our world
00:38:53today is trying to make every womb barren and turning women into men and men into women
00:38:58it starts off the leech has two daughters a leech is something that suckles off of another to gain
00:39:06sustenance so it's a parasitic relationship so it's saying the parasite has two daughters which is give
00:39:16give which is kind of odd because a leech is taking so what do you make of that well i think the
00:39:25the the two daughters are this is probably some kind of idiom that is saying that the leech has
00:39:34two uh two defining characteristics or two two driving motivations but they're really the same
00:39:43give me and give me okay so i think the me part there is implied okay and yeah i'm sure that in the
00:39:53original in the original culture people would have read this in this something or other has two daughters
00:40:00was probably a common saying that would have fit in lots of contexts and to us it just sounds a little weird
00:40:07a parched land that's never satisfied with water that makes sense obviously a parched land can be
00:40:14satisfied with water and if you give it too much then you're going to have flooding and erosion and all kinds of
00:40:18problems but that's not really the point the point is that you know a land that hasn't had rain a long
00:40:24time it'll soak up lots of water fire is a little different than these and that fire goes out and gets
00:40:30stuff as long as there is fuel and oxygen available fire will continue to spread and take over everything
00:40:38it can whereas these other things are waiting for something to be given to it i don't know if that's
00:40:45significant or not but that just seemed like one difference i mean overall it's saying there are
00:40:50things that are insatiable and these insatiable illusions have to do with ungodliness if you will
00:40:59unrighteous so unrighteousness has an insatiable element to it yeah it always wants more it's greedy
00:41:07and i think it ties into verse 17 the eye that mocks a father and scorns to obey a mother will be
00:41:14picked out by the ravens of the valley and eaten by the vultures this is more talking about the
00:41:18consequences if you engage in this sort of behavior if you allow your your urges to rule your life
00:41:25if you make decisions based on how what you feel that you want instead of exercising restraint and
00:41:34discipline and planning for the future then you're going to come to a bad end you're going to be a
00:41:40disgrace to your parents and you're going to in a world you know like ancient wherever you know all
00:41:49all the ancient lands back then were pretty much the same and that you know if you didn't plan ahead
00:41:54if you didn't live a more or less upright life you're likely to die from starvation or invaders or
00:42:00something i think that's what verse 17 is talking about so how would you define reverence
00:42:06obviously saying if you don't revere you came from your parents there's a consequence to that
00:42:14so how should you revere them by listening to their teachings putting it into practice
00:42:21you know obviously there are parents are humans and not always right but going back to the pride we were
00:42:30talking about earlier if you are proud and think that you know better then you're clearly not
00:42:36honoring your parents you have to be willing to honor the the years of experience that they have
00:42:42ahead of you and say you know from my perspective this looks to be true but my parents have been around
00:42:48longer they've seen more stuff and they say this other thing is true so i should probably just go with
00:42:53that okay let's see we were on 17 three things are too wonderful for me or i do not understand
00:43:04the way of an eagle in the sky the way of a serpent on a rock way of a ship on the high seas and the way
00:43:09of a man with a virgin just like the previous four there are three that are very similar and one that
00:43:16is similar but also different and then why would that's what the three and four are about yeah why
00:43:23wouldn't he have understanding of a man with a virgin i'm assuming he had that experience
00:43:27he had children i mean whether it's all i mean if it's solomon he had lots of experience
00:43:33even he did have some children well what about the first three what do they have in common
00:43:39movement i don't know yeah well there's some peculiar things about their movement
00:43:45if you don't know anything about aerodynamics you don't know about lift and drag and all that
00:43:52kind of stuff and you see a bird flying especially an eagle who's just gliding through the air
00:43:57how does he do that there's no obvious means of propulsion or you know he's the bird is heavier
00:44:05than air so how does he float up there and i think you know the same with a serpent on a rock
00:44:10he's got no legs he has no visible means of propulsion and yet somehow he can still move up
00:44:16move across smooth rocks or up a smooth wall even it's it would be very mysterious
00:44:21in a ship on the high seas if you don't understand currents in you know how hydrodynamics how water can
00:44:29move something around this ship is just like how does it stay afloat it's heavier than the water
00:44:35how does it move from one place to another with no visible means i mean if you pull in the oars and
00:44:41you pull down the sails that ship is still going to move i mean unless you're in some doldrums
00:44:46but in most places it's still going to go somewhere so i think those are there's something about them
00:44:52that you can see something is happening but you don't understand it you don't know how it's happening
00:44:57unless you spend a lot of time watching and studying and doing some experimentation probably
00:45:05there are three different um firmaments that that these the not items because the ship's an item but
00:45:15the eagle and the serpent are animals but they're they are basically moving through these firmaments
00:45:24or on these firmaments so i mean that's kind of interesting yeah these are are like the the four
00:45:32elements i hadn't thought about that but that's i'm sure that you're right about that that it that's
00:45:37intended too there's air earth water and fire and then there's sex yeah that's the fire i didn't think
00:45:48yeah well another way that that these first three are alike is that you can't tell that something has
00:45:58happened like if a bird flies past and you don't see it and you walk outside you'd never know it
00:46:04didn't doesn't leave a path behind it same thing with a serpent on a rock once it's gone there's no
00:46:11evidence that it was ever there and with a ship i mean the wake will last for a little while but then
00:46:16the wake disappears and if you appear on the scene an hour or two after the ship is gone there's no
00:46:22evidence that it was ever there so we've got these three things in common you know at least with the
00:46:28first three we have there's no obvious means for what's happening second there's no way to tell that
00:46:37it ever happened if you didn't see it happen and the third is that all four of these match the four
00:46:44elements so in what way does a way does a man with a virgin meet those other two criteria all right
00:46:52we're going to assume that he impregnates her so if that's the case you have a clean sleep a clean sheet
00:47:03there's intercourse and that clean sheet is now transformed or that clean sheet it's not the right
00:47:12way of saying it but that firmament is transformed you know it's it's made a there's been a passage
00:47:22if you will like the other three are passages they are we're passing through something well
00:47:27there's maybe this has more to do with the child passing through this is just the creation portion i don't
00:47:36know well well that could be in that the actual creation of a child is a total mystery i mean it
00:47:44certainly was to those people at the time that this was written nobody had any idea how this worked
00:47:50that people do this thing and then there's baby what happens in between we don't really know it just
00:47:56happens it's also it also could be talking about the art of seduction if you want to call it that
00:48:04to somebody you know to a man who doesn't understand it it's magic like how does a man
00:48:12talk to this woman and next thing you know they're going to bed together and a man who doesn't know
00:48:21how to do that who doesn't uh have that way with women it's you know it's like somebody looking up at
00:48:29a bird flying around and saying how in the world does that bird fly how can i do that and he can't
00:48:33of course because it's not a bird but in this case it's just a mysterious thing it works and unless you
00:48:41spend a lot of time observing and trying to learn how it works like studying exact all the the minute
00:48:47details of what is happening you'll never know well i think you just hit on something and i think that
00:48:54the the uh the baby element is there as well because the next passage goes to adultery
00:48:59and adultery so they actually ties in very well with the the man and a virgin you know this is the
00:49:08way the adulteress she eats and wipes her mouth and said i've done nothing wrong you know that's the
00:49:12counter the counterfeit of the man with a virgin you're assuming that to have been an honorable
00:49:17situation the man and the virgin i i have no reason to think not yeah it's hard to say but
00:49:23you know after the fact you know when if a man has seduced a virgin and then he leaves
00:49:29how would anybody know i mean without a medical examination you're you know it's something that
00:49:37happened in the past he's not there now there's no there's no trail no path that he's left
00:49:41unless she's pregnant yeah unless she's pregnant or unless she truly was a virgin you know you're
00:49:47talking about what the torah calls the the evidence of virginity um but those things can be covered up
00:49:54at least for a while yeah so there are a couple of different ways that that could fit in you know
00:49:59which one i don't which one the agur actually meant i'm not really sure but uh i think you're right
00:50:07that verse 20 really does tie into this and it's supposed to because the adulteress is doing the same
00:50:12thing she's doing something and leaving no trace at least she believes that she is you know she's
00:50:19she's committing this sin covering her tracks and then saying i didn't do anything what do you mean
00:50:26there was no ship here no bird flew by here but if you pay attention if you look for the signs if you
00:50:32know what to look for the evidence is there just like with the eagle and the snake in the in the ship
00:50:38you can find those things you can find the evidence of their passage if you get there at
00:50:44the right time and you know what to look for it's just very difficult and then of course if she is
00:50:50pregnant it all comes to light eventually all right so anything else to say about those four
00:50:55okay well let's move on to uh verse 21 under three things the earth trembles under four it cannot bear
00:51:05up a slave who becomes a king a fool when he's filled with food uh esv says an unloved woman
00:51:12but the word apparently literally means a hated woman a hated woman when she gets a husband
00:51:20and a maidservant when she displaces her mistress and you know some of these translations are kind of
00:51:27confusing like verse 23 the esv says an unloved woman but the literal word is
00:51:35was it odious yeah the literal word is sane oh cena cena something like that i don't know how to
00:51:44pronounce that exactly um but it literally means to be hated or hateful so the king james is closer
00:51:52there with odious but then the esv says a maidservant when she displaces her mistress
00:51:58and the king james says that is heir to her mistress but the word for heir is someone who
00:52:05is a usurper someone who dispossesses so the king james seems to be better on the first half of the
00:52:12verse and the esv seems to be better on the second half and i don't know why translators decide on the
00:52:19exact words that they do and i suppose the brown driver briggs dictionary might not be
00:52:25the best or most up to date it is a little over 100 years old i think so who knows oh is 23 the proper
00:52:34context an unloved woman or whatever the the phrase is when she gets a husband i'm presuming that's not
00:52:42her husband well i think it is you know king james says when she is married
00:52:48when she is married that's what it says yeah the the actual word is a ball which means master husband
00:52:58or lord but i think the literal i mean a hyper literal reading is strange like young's literal
00:53:06says for a hated one when she rules like he young is assuming that she is the one who is lording
00:53:13but i think in context because looking at what these things have in common you know a slave
00:53:22suddenly transformed to be a king like going from one extreme to the other a fool is filled with food
00:53:28a fool should normally be half starving because nobody should be feeding him if he's not willing to do his
00:53:35own work and if he's a fool that means he's always messing up what's that these are unnatural things
00:53:41the earth trembles so so something is yeah they've gone from one end to the other end where they
00:53:48shouldn't be right so an unloved woman when she gets a husband why is that a miss because she's a
00:53:55hated woman she's an unlovable woman like who married this woman so is the illness being married
00:54:02is it on her or the husband uh i think that with all of these that's ambiguous it's not really
00:54:10saying that anybody is at fault it's saying that something has changed from one extreme to another
00:54:15extreme and this is going to this is disrupting the natural order of things so it's saying husbands
00:54:22love your wife that's a good way of looking at it well that's certainly something i mean that's
00:54:29that's something you can derive from it but it's saying that this is a hated woman who gets a
00:54:34husband so she is going from being unloved or hated to being loved she's gone from one extreme to the
00:54:41other okay and whether it's a good or bad thing depends on the specific circumstances if you think
00:54:48about if this woman is just altogether unpleasant and her parents arrange a marriage for her and now
00:54:54she's gotten married she's got a husband is this a good thing not for him not for him
00:55:01but it depends on how she responds to it if she responds by being grateful and by trying to be
00:55:08the person he needs maybe they'll they're both going to improve from this she becomes lovable
00:55:14says three things that the earth trembles so it's saying yeah this is a bad thing yeah these are things
00:55:21that it's causing massive disruption it's you know if you think about what causes an earthquake
00:55:27it's a sudden movement of the earth like the earth was here and it's jerked and now it's over here
00:55:33and that's the same thing that's happening in all all four of these something was over here now it's
00:55:40suddenly over here without any transition there was no character progression like a fool should not be
00:55:46rewarded and a slave should not be auto promoted directly to king and you know the maidservant
00:55:54they're not become the wife so they're not ready they're not prepared to fill this role yeah they
00:56:00haven't earned it they didn't get there the right way maybe i mean that's that part is a little
00:56:06ambiguous so an unloved woman should not have a husband that's i mean that's the yeah or or an
00:56:13unlovable unlovable woman is not worthy of it she may have a husband but not worthy of a husband
00:56:19i think that might be right yeah she needs to learn how to be a how to love and how to be loved
00:56:24and you know you can learn that in marriage but you know if you're just a rotten vicious human being
00:56:31and then you go get married that's not going to be a good relationship yeah and you can say the same
00:56:37about all of these you know a slave who becomes a king you know i can imagine a fairy tale story
00:56:41where you have the slave becomes the king and he remembers how bad things were for himself so he
00:56:47treats other people the way he wanted to be treated when he was a slave but in the real world that's
00:56:52usually not the way it works out it's usually if somebody gets promoted way beyond their capability
00:56:58or their station they don't handle it well like somebody who wins the lottery you know dirt poor
00:57:04to being a multi-millionaire well they're going to be bankrupt pretty soon because they're going to
00:57:09abuse everything that they just gain and a slave who becomes a king is going to drive his kingdom
00:57:15into the ground he's going to be a slave again shortly so one of the iconic movies of the 20th century
00:57:24is pretty woman right that's a horrible message i'm sorry but that's just society misplacing
00:57:36how things should go yeah rags to riches should take many years going suddenly unrighteousness to oh
00:57:48i'm now being showered upon the yeah yeah yeah i was just using rags to riches as a metaphor for that
00:57:55whole class of yeah transitions right yeah and the maidservant i mean obviously that immediately brings
00:58:03to mind hagar and sarah yeah about them and she is trying to displace her mistress you know she can't
00:58:11do that in abraham's eyes it's never going to work but she's causing so much disruption in the home
00:58:15that they have to get rid of her and well i think that's a proper application because you do have the
00:58:24situation where you have somebody that you you have men that want their mistress to be or maidservant to
00:58:32to replace the wife you know and that's even in that situation it's fraught with danger you know
00:58:40it's not the ideal yep yeah it's certainly it's unkind to uh to the wife that's for sure
00:58:48all right so four things on earth are small but they are exceedingly wise
00:58:55ants little ants provide food provide their food in the summer presumably for the winter
00:59:03rock badgers or conies or whatever word they're also small but they make their homes in the cliffs
00:59:10locusts locusts have no king yet they all march together and the lizard you can take it in your
00:59:17hands yet it lives in king's palaces this one seems a little more straightforward i think
00:59:23except for the lizard one so ants prepare for the winter by working all summer long you know ants don't
00:59:33think about it they just do it this is how god programmed them to be and people are different
00:59:40in that you know we have to decide to do the right thing we have to be we have to choose to
00:59:48discipline ourselves whereas ants have no choice they you know they they work together and do what
00:59:55they do because of who they are or what they are whereas we do the wrong thing because of who and what
01:00:01we are and so our job is to overcome that and you know we do that with help from with help from god you
01:00:10know the holy spirit in our lives working in our hearts to transform our minds but we also do that
01:00:15through god's law you know torah is all about overcoming the the natural evil inclination to do what's
01:00:22wrong transforming it into doing what's right and it takes takes time and practice and discipline
01:00:30to make that happen we don't become ants or rock badgers or locusts overnight what do you think he's
01:00:37trying to say with the rock badgers what is the benefit of making their homes in the cliffs
01:00:41what are we supposed to learn from that or how do we apply it i'm presuming there's some sort of safety
01:00:49there i don't know i'm trying to plan it plan our uh our environment so that you know we don't we're
01:00:57not subject to not just uh like dangers from predators but you know making sure we're not building our
01:01:05house on sand like we've got a good foundation we've got solid walls protection from the elements
01:01:11and from invaders it would also apply financially you know making sure that you're not taking undue
01:01:20risks or putting all your resources out there where they're likely to be wiped out the one that really
01:01:27puzzles me here is the lizard some translations say a spider i don't like that one so i'm going with
01:01:33a lizard it's a geico reference yeah you can pick up a lizard in your hands but it lives in king's
01:01:40palaces so it's little and it lives in a big house i don't know what we're supposed to learn from that
01:01:46i yeah i've i've been thinking about it and i really don't have any good ideas
01:01:51well it's prestigious i guess but on all these others the thing that the creature does
01:01:58is something we should aspire to you know we should aspire to being disciplined and planning
01:02:03ahead for the future we should aspire to building security into the things that we build you know
01:02:11we should aspire to cooperation working together with our neighbors we don't without having to be
01:02:15made to do it should we aspire to be to live in big houses or ornate houses i don't think that
01:02:24that's what it's saying but i don't know what it is okay to be on point to what you just said
01:02:31there is a reference in the new testament to yeshua building or to a a place being prepared for us in
01:02:41heaven and it certainly implies that there is going to be something magnificent for us
01:02:47that we can look forward to so you know aspiring to big well that's suggestive of something big that
01:02:58we are and can look to i don't know what to do with it i'm just trying to take it take the concept and
01:03:04extrapolate it yeah or we're supposed to look at consider our place in the in our community or our nation
01:03:15and you know think of the king's palace you know a big house like we're we're not it's not our house
01:03:23we you know we don't run the place we're just tiny little things in this great big house
01:03:28so maybe it's about not being proud yeah we're blessed yeah we didn't build it god provided this
01:03:36right we live in america we're blessed thank you that type of thing yeah not thinking it was us who
01:03:43created it but it says wise i don't get that though because there's nothing that lizard did
01:03:48that's wise unless he wisely picked the king's palace i don't know yeah i don't know yeah some
01:03:58of these are pretty straightforward i mean i'll dance that's easy but it seems like uh yeah i don't
01:04:04know what to do with the lizard really you want to move on to the next set of four sure okay three
01:04:11things are stately in their tread four are stately in their stride the lion mightiest among beasts that
01:04:17doesn't turn back the strutting rooster the he goat and a king whose army is with him these are all
01:04:23the alphas they are all protectors and jealous of their territory a couple of things that all these
01:04:32haven't done i mean they are all in charge you know the the alpha lion is in charge of his pack
01:04:37he is primarily responsible for defending it he doesn't necessarily provide for it because the
01:04:44lionesses actually do most of the hunting but when there's danger he's at the front he fights off his
01:04:51rivals uh you know the same thing with the rooster the he goat and the king their primary responsibility
01:04:57is to defend their their harem or their people or you know whatever it is they're defending
01:05:03to defend it against predators and rivals but that also means that they can have a short life
01:05:10expectancy they're putting themselves in danger so the king is at the head of the army they have some
01:05:16sort of attribute that they can fall back on each one of those do you know there's strength there's
01:05:22um the rooster has its claws he go horns the king his army yes they'll have something that they can
01:05:30basically wield yeah they all have have some basis for their strength and their willingness to be out
01:05:36in front right and i think that goes to the next couple of verses if you have been foolish
01:05:43exalting yourself or if you have been devising evil put your hand on your mouth for pressing milk
01:05:48produces curds pressing the nose produces blood and pressing anger produces strife i think that's a
01:05:54counterpoint to these four things yeah so the alpha lion he puts himself in danger for the sake of his
01:06:03pride not like his personal pride but you know the pride of lions he does that because he is the alpha
01:06:09lion that's his place the the rooster he fights off you know birds and raccoons and whatever else
01:06:16and he may get killed for it but that's his role he's got the tools to make it happen
01:06:21the king he leads the people because he has the skills and the training and the character to do it
01:06:29at least ideally if you put yourself ahead of into those positions when you're not called to it and
01:06:35you don't have the tools to do it you're going to get hurt you're going to get hurt you're not going
01:06:39to accomplish the job i think these last two verses are warning that if you are not the alpha don't try to
01:06:46be it and if god puts you in a role like if he makes you a pastor or a teacher or a prophet or
01:06:52you know whatever it is if he makes you a general or he gives you the qualities necessary for that role
01:06:58then maybe you should be in that role and you don't really have any excuse for not doing it
01:07:04but if he hasn't given you those skills and there's no clear sign that god wants you in that position
01:07:09assuming that position you're putting yourself forward being adopting a mantle of pride
01:07:16is going to cause you and everybody else pain does that make sense yeah there's also the element of
01:07:26earning it too it's one of those has to fight well the king maybe not but sometimes they did
01:07:35you have to basically go through a process to to to acquire that status yeah yeah most kings
01:07:42throughout their life they had to earn it in some way i mean it wasn't automatically the firstborn son
01:07:48who became king sometimes it was most of the kings of israel they passed over their firstborn son in
01:07:55favor of a more qualified son i know uh the pharaohs you know once he was made pharaoh he had to pass some
01:08:02physical tests you know he had to you know do some combat show some archery skills do some
01:08:07feats of strength and you know then his position was secure but if he was still alive in 30 years
01:08:13he had to do it all over again he had to prove that he was still physically fit enough to lead the army
01:08:19we should do that we should make our presidents undergo some physical trials to make sure that they're fit
01:08:27yeah yeah or at least some mental trials or something yep something to prove that they
01:08:36really belong there well you know what they actually in a sense do but it's the popularity contest it's
01:08:42the electoral college so that's the trial they have to put through but you know yeah it's all marketing
01:08:48i know it's there was an intent that obviously is not what we realize today yeah it was pretty
01:08:56the closest we have to that are like the public debates or the televised debates so if you're in
01:09:02the debate and you you perform well head-to-head against your your rivals that's at least some kind
01:09:09of trial well you're supposed to sway but that's not what happens if you're
01:09:18opening it up so when i'm here i was going to come over here you have to stop
01:09:24going through on this day and before we sólo get no way after this parent
01:09:28posting with me oh thank you if you're giving me a involvement then i'd love you
01:09:32yeah
01:09:34the right
01:09:39yeah
01:09:42yeah
01:09:44yeah
01:09:45yeah
Be the first to comment