- 3 hours ago
The government has reversed a directive that would have mandated the pre-installation of the 'Sanchar Saathi' app on smartphones.
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00:01Emits storm over Sanchar Sati
00:04Government clients town on compulsion
00:14Not just optional for consumers
00:30No longer mandatory for phone makers
00:40Backlash behind Sanchar Sati U-turn
00:50So what made the government do a rethink on the Sanchar Sati app?
01:07That's our top story for discussion
01:09But first up as usual allow me to take you through the headlines
01:12Amit Sapror sent her big U-turn on Sanchar Sati app
01:19Removes mandatory pre-installation of the app
01:22Asserts that Sanchar Sati app purely meant to help citizens
01:32Owls over Renuka's dog in parliament
01:34Rajya Sabha may send privilege notice to Congress N.P. Renuka Choudhury
01:38She responds to the privilege notice with a dog-like woof
01:45We are preparing for the privilege motion
01:47B.J.P.
01:48What will you say?
01:49Go who?
01:50And what will you say?
01:55Slogan vs. Slogan
01:57In Siddharamaya vs. DKS war
01:59Competing chance by Chief Minister race contenders
02:02DKS arrives in Delhi for a wedding
02:05Siddharamaya meets Kesey Venni Gopal in Mangalua
02:15The rupee falls to record low
02:17Hits Rs.90 against the U.S. dollar for the first time
02:20Amidst weak trade and portfolio flows
02:22Indigo flight delay chaos continues
02:30Several flights delayed and cancelled due to check-in disruptions
02:34Chaotic scenes at Hyderabad airport Indigo says
02:37Working diligently to resolve issues
02:39Travel nightmare in airports
02:43All right, let's get you up to speed with the latest coming in from Madurai
03:00The Madurai Temple showdown peaks after Madras High Court had ordered
03:04For the lamp to be lit in the contentious Madurai Temple site
03:08On the Deepam festival in Tamil Nadu on the 3rd of December
03:12The government has ignored the order
03:14And not lit the lamp leading to massive protests and chaos in Madurai
03:19What was considered a significant yet controversial ruling
03:23Right ahead of the Kartigai Deepam festival
03:25Which was to take place today which is the 3rd of December
03:29Madurai bench of the Madras High Court had ordered
03:32That apart from the customary lighting of the festival lamp
03:36A lamp would also, the Deepam must also be lit at the Deepothun
03:41An ancient stone lamp pillar located on a lower peak
03:46It seems that the government has not gone with the order
03:51Or abided by the order is concerned
03:53And what you see right now at the temple is abject chaos
03:57Madurai chaos at the temple
04:00Protesters attempting to climb the hill stopped by the cops
04:05This in one case viewers can also be viewed as
04:09The state government defying a mandated court order
04:14I want to quickly cut across to my colleague Pramod Madhav
04:17Who is joining us for more
04:18Pramod, will you give us context to what you are witnessing right now
04:23At the Madurai temple and why is it that the state government has refused to comply with court orders
04:30Priti, this is a little bit complicated behind us
04:35You could see these are the pro-Hundi groups who have gathered over here
04:38And this is the foothill of a place called as Tirparangunjam
04:41And today is a very auspicious day for the Kartikei Deepam
04:44The Piram Kartikei
04:45Which means in almost all six important aborts of Lord Murugan
04:49Arubadi video everywhere the Kartikei Deepam must have been lit
04:52However the issue when it comes to this particular place is that
04:55Below above the temple there are two hills on top of one
04:58Kartikei Deepam is being lit regularly
05:00However there is another place which is very very ancient
05:03And that is the place that has turned controversial because on that side
05:06There is actually a Dargah and this particular lamp called as Deepat-Tur
05:11It is only 50 meters away from the Dargah
05:13That is why so long it has been avoided to light the lamp over there
05:17However Justice J.R. Swaminathan who had now come or gave an order
05:21Sated that it should be allowed to go ahead and light the lamp over there
05:24We climbed over the hill, we went over there, we saw the Kartikei Deepam being lit as well
05:29But on the place where the court has ordered it was not lit
05:32That's lit to the chaos over here
05:34You could see pro-hinder groups who have gathered off the spot
05:37Officially 25 people tried to walk up the hill
05:40But they could not climb anymore because the police over there
05:42The situation turned chaotic as they were forcibly removed from there
05:46And they were now protesting at this location
05:48In fact as we speak another kind of instruction has been given by the court
05:52That the petitioner who has sought the lamp to be lit over on that particular Deepat-Tur
05:57Can be accommodated by 10 people along with the protection of CISF over here
06:02And central reserve force and he can go ahead and go to that particular area
06:06We are not sure that could be allowed right now
06:08Because the place is no one is allowed over there after 7pm
06:11Because this place is little dangerous to walk at this moment
06:14So for that now people are protesting over here
06:16And there is huge police force also placed at this court Preeti
06:19What was the reason that was given by the government to not comply with court orders?
06:29So far no particular reason has been given
06:32One petition was filed by the temple authorities
06:35Earlier it was said that it could be the HRNCE or the executive officer or the joint commissioner
06:41But it looks like we do not have any clarity over that particular thing
06:44Because the petitioner is with no one
06:46Earlier what happened is that until 5.30pm there were preparations that was done
06:51To take the lamp, the necessary things to burn, the kind of like fuel and such, the ghee and everything
06:57But what happened is that after 5.40pm only we were told that actually that it was not allowed
07:02And that the lamp was not lit over there
07:04That only led to the chaos because all they were, these puro-hindu groups were standing over here
07:08They were protestors who were waiting to see the lamp lit from the spot
07:11But that did not happen, now it has turned chaotic
07:14Even now, the reason that's being said, like multiple reasons are being given
07:18But only in the court they are going to give kind of a reason why it was not done
07:23However, it looks like the officials will also now face contempt of the court charges Preeti
07:28Alright, contempt of court charges which the government is facing
07:32Right now what is peaking is communal tension in the area
07:36Pramod continue to stay on with me
07:38We are coming right back to Pramod
07:40Let's quickly dip in to how the chaos ensued resulting in violence
07:45When the Deepam wasn't lit at the lower peak as mandated by the courts
07:50Listen in and we are back with Pramod
07:54As the lamp was not lit over the Deepatun
07:56Now the protestors over here, pro-Hindu group, Hindumurini and such
07:59Are coming over to this, at the foothill of Tirupar and Gundram
08:02And as we speak, they are trying to protest, claiming that there is a court order
08:06And still, they are not allowed to go over there and light the Karthike Deepam
08:10As we speak, over there right now, they are trying to break the barricade
08:13And that is also huge kind of issues happening over here
08:16With this Tirupar and Gundram hill
08:18Where on one side, the Karthike Deepam has been lit
08:21But on the other side, now protestors are trying to climb over to the hill once again
08:26And they are trying to enter the other portion
08:28Where you have the Dargah
08:30And from 50 meters away from there, you have the particular Deepatun
08:34And they are trying to enter this vicinity
08:37Police are trying to block them
08:38However, protestors have entered and more are trying to come over here
08:42Police are trying to block them over here
08:44Still, a team has gone up
08:46And they are claiming that they want to light the lamp over there
08:49These are the protestors at this spot
08:51And they are climbing atop this particular hill
08:53This is Sikandar Malay
08:55This is Tirupar and Gundram hill
08:58And there, it earlier turned out to be an issue
09:00Because it was called as Sikandar Malay
09:02Then it had to go to the court
09:03And then it was actually now
09:05It is once again being called as Tirupar and Gundram hill
09:08One of the protestors over here is also injured
09:10However, the rest of the protestors are climbing atop
09:13On the top, there is another one particular police force
09:16Which is trying to block them
09:18This is close to 200 steps
09:20They have to climb to go over the spot over there
09:22Police are trying to stop them however
09:24But they broke the barricade
09:26They also tried to enter through another spot of the temple
09:30And you could see on one side
09:32There is police force that is blocking the people
09:34And on the other side
09:35A group is walking towards the atop of the place
09:38Where this particular passage will break into left and right
09:42Left side, you will go to the normal place
09:44And the right side, it will actually go to the place
09:46Where the dharka
09:48Earlier, the court has ordered to light the lamp over the batun
09:53However, that was not then
09:55Leading to such chaos at Tirupar and Gundram
09:57With Daniel from Odmadam for India today
10:00Alright viewers, I want to give our viewers a bit of context
10:05On what really is taking place
10:07That has resulted in fair amount of violence and chaos right now
10:10In Madurai
10:11I hark back, this is a festival which is over a hundred years old viewers
10:16It takes place the Karthigai Deepan festival
10:20Which is lit near the Uccha Pillayar temple
10:23Which is midway up the hill in Madurai
10:26Now Hindu petitioners have argued that the ancient pillar
10:30On the lower peak of the Uccha Pillayar temple
10:34Called the Deepodhun
10:36Was historically meant for lighting the deep
10:39And that doing so would desert the temples right over the hill
10:42Having said that, near the lower hill there is a dargah
10:46Even the temple administration
10:48The Hindu religious charitable board of the temple administration
10:52Of the Uccha Pillayar temple
10:54And the dargah both have opposed the move
10:57Their concern was that the Deepodhun lies closer to the hilltop mosque
11:03And that lighting the lamp has not been done for over a century
11:07Over a hundred years
11:08And it lies in interest of communities
11:12That not be instigated as that lamp hasn't been lit for over a century now
11:18And that's where the dargah lies
11:21And even the temple administration wanted the Deep to be lit midway up the hill
11:28As it has been done traditionally
11:30But Hindu groups wanted otherwise to be lit near the lower hill
11:34Asserting that this is the right of the temple
11:37Now what has really happened is that Justice Swaminathan
11:42Held the view that the temple land well outside the area is belonging to the dargah
11:47And therefore the temple has every right to light the Deepam
11:51He noted that this was assertion of temple land
11:54Even though the temple authorities have opposed it
11:58Now what has resulted is that the state government has not allowed the Deepam to be lit
12:03Which is contempt of court
12:05And on the other account what you see are Hindu groups filing in
12:09And the chaos and tension which prevails
12:11I want to pull in my colleague Pramod Madhav back into this conversation
12:15To give a larger perspective on what he is witnessing right now
12:19Pramod give us a bit of context
12:21The temple authorities themselves have opposed that the Deepam be lit in the lower hill
12:25Which lies close to the dargah
12:27Yet right now there is a court mandated order
12:30That you know the legal right of the temple as it is the land of the temple
12:34That Deepam needs to be lit
12:36And Hindu groups now filing in protesting
12:40Are things under control?
12:41What are you witnessing?
12:43Well, Deepthi behind me you could see that like the crowd is still over there
12:49And they are still protesting
12:50And the important aspect here is that we are at the foothill where
12:53You could see it's been barricaded and police are also here
12:55Police have surrounded the entire crowd right now
12:57The bigger problem here is that just like you mentioned
12:59There are two hilltops
13:00And one hilltop the Kartike Deepam has already been lit
13:03We also have the visuals
13:04And this Kartike Deepam will go for the next three days
13:07However, the bigger issue is that like the Deepatun
13:10Which is on the bigger hilltop
13:11That is where the protestors who have the hand of the court order in their hand
13:17They want to climb over there and they want to lit the lamp
13:20That that is not being allowed
13:22Earlier what happened is that like until 5.40pm
13:24It looked like that particular Deepatun lamp will be lit
13:27And that's why they were quiet
13:28But as they saw that the people were moving away from that particular Deepatun
13:32Situation turned chaotic and they are still protesting over here
13:35We've been told that another direction has also been issued by the court
13:38Where ten people along with the petitioner can walk atop this particular hill
13:43And they can go and light the lamp
13:45Situation is little grim over here because it's very difficult for this terrain to go up right now
13:49But however, protesters are still standing and the court has also directed that it will be
13:53That the central reserve force should give them protection
13:56We are not sure if it could happen today because it's after 7pm
13:59But if the protesters here are adamant there are high chances that the police will have to comply
14:04But for now we've been told that the temple authorities did not light the lamp
14:08Because as they have gone ahead with their appeal to another bench
14:12Claiming against J.R. Swaminathan's earlier verdict
14:15And that is why they claimed that the lamp was not lit pretty
14:18All right Pramod, thank you for joining us
14:21We are going to continue to come back to you
14:22My colleague Pramod, joining us from Madurai
14:25They are keeping a close eye on all developments where the Uccha Pillayar temple is concerned
14:31Things looking grim, there is a fair amount of chaos
14:34Right now there is an understanding with a new order coming in of the court
14:38That 10 people including the petitioner could walk up, which is tricky terrain, up the hill to light that lamp
14:46What prevails is continental tension
14:48We are going to revisit that story for now
14:50Let's quickly cut across to our top debate on To The Point this evening
14:55Yesterday there was a fair amount of backlash coming in from the opposition
14:59And other citizen groups where there was news that the government has mandated all smart phones to be sold in India
15:08Be installed, pre-installed with an app called Sanchar Saathi app
15:14The government said that this was for the own good of the citizens of the country where cyber fraud is concerned
15:20But on the other account there was a fair amount of push back where citizen groups, the opposition said this was surveillance, this was snooping
15:29Strangely, the government today has backtracked on the order saying that many people have already downloaded the app, they don't need to mandate it
15:41A government order, nationwide backlash and then a sudden rollback
15:48What was meant to be a cyber safety shield triggered a privacy storm instead
15:54The centre has now withdrawn its directive to pre-install the Sanchar Saathi app on every new smartphone sold in India
16:04Just 48 hours ago, the Department of Telecommunications had made public its directive making it mandatory for all smartphone manufacturers to pre-install the government's Sanchar Saathi app on every new device sold in India
16:19The app was to be visible and active from the moment a user switched on a new phone
16:28Sanchar Saathi was projected as a public safety tool to track stolen phones, block fake sims and fight cyber fraud
16:36But making it compulsory triggered alarm bells across the country
16:40Privacy advocates flagged surveillance fears
16:43Opposition parties alleged state overreach
16:47Questions were raised on consent, data access and monitoring
16:53The question is why did they mandate it in the first place?
16:56What was the intention of the government?
16:58Why were they trying to create an Orwellian state?
17:01Did they want to monitor the communication of each and every person in this country who has a mobile phone?
17:10The pushback was not confined to politics alone
17:13Global tech giants Apple and Google reportedly raised red flags
17:17Citing serious concerns over user privacy and system security
17:22With pressure mounting from all sides, political, public and industry
17:29The government finally rolled back the pre-installation mandate
17:34Sanchar Saathi will now remain purely optional
17:37Users can download it by choice and remove it at will
17:42The government maintains that Sanchar Saathi remains a key anti-fraud too
17:47The government's intent that Eremyra has gone through, oh!
17:49Of course, the government now has a choice
17:52All of the government's intent
17:55The government's intent has not as well
17:56The government's intent is that it should operate automatically automatically
17:58If I still need to register it
18:03Once that I cannot register it, then it will not operate
18:04The government's intent is not to operate
18:06So it's a total of right and hak of rights
18:10The government's intent is our people
18:12To support these up to it
18:13from mandatory to voluntary in under 48 hours a policy climb down driven by public backlash
18:29political attack and big tech resistance the dramatic u-turn by the government shows the
18:35tightrope between cyber security and individual privacy in India's digital future better report
18:42India today all right before we cut across to our panelists this evening the questions that we put
18:52forth did the government backtrack because of public outrage and not voluntary uptake as they seem to
18:59suggest that many have already downloaded the app so what's the need the second question we asked the
19:04rollback which we now see a political retreat of sorts disguised as user acceptance of the app
19:10and a question that is still being raised who signed off on the mandate did anyone ever check
19:17its legality or even its constitutionality and lastly will the government release privacy audit of
19:22Sanchar Sati to address which are clear and simple surveillance concerns let's take all these
19:29questions to our guests this evening joining me Rohan Gupta national spokesperson Bharatiya Janata
19:33Adil Singh Bhoparoy national spokesperson congress Kanish Gaur founder Indian India Future Foundation
19:40cyber security expert and NS Napanai senior advocate Supreme Court and founder Cyber Sati I'd like to
19:47begin with all of you get two minutes time to put your point forward Rohan Gupta beginning with you
19:52clearly what happened Rohan Gupta something till yesterday was that we you know it's voluntary you
19:59can delete it it started off with being mandatory then it became voluntary and now there is no need
20:04to even pre-install this app what's this complete U-turn see I don't know why anything which is for
20:12the people of this country becomes anti-opposition this is the really really poor mindset where
20:17opposition parties are questioning each and everything before this I'll hold the time forget the
20:23opposition sir I'm asking you it is I'm coming the U-turn has come from your very no absolutely no
20:28there is no U-turn so I will cover all the points what is this I will cover all the points you the
20:34rollback is this political retreat disguised as no user acceptance is this because you are now backing
20:41off because of public outrage and not because you suddenly seem to suggest so many people I will
20:46download it didn't you not know this I think had you go ahead sir had you had you waited I would
20:51have covered all the points but nonetheless I'll cover all the points no no worries see basically
20:55already 1.5 crore users are already using this app this is basically a cyber security tool like you
21:01are also have a phone there are maybe 50 apps which are pre-installed or already there it doesn't
21:07mean that that app is using your data unless and if you go into that app put your things nothing
21:12happens this is just a facility which is available in your phone mind you 20 crore people have already
21:17used this portal so it is basically for a cyber security tool if my phone is stolen somebody
21:21misuse it I can stop it so basically the point what opposition is trying to make that each and every
21:27facility which is given by a government to stop the cyber fraud if they are questioning that what you
21:32can do but still still government decide that okay if it is voluntary let it be it is not pre-installed
21:37but then it is somewhere you know removing that right from the common man where it was available
21:42on his phone and then you have to go to the app store and download the app but the question again
21:47i'm coming to the basic question pretty there is no bad tracking it is the facility which was given by
21:52government on the phone as a pre-installed facility now people will have to go and download but this is
21:57purely a cyber security tool 20 crore people have already used lacks of phone have been traced which were
22:03stolen lacks of imi misuse have been detected every day around more than 2 000 people are reporting the
22:09spam calls international spam calls so basically this is purely a cyber security tool and opposition
22:15party always as usual without any kind of proof they will just attack the government and at the end of
22:20the day when the truth will come out they will backtrack their words in past also this has happened that
22:25each and every point they have questioned something which is offered by government and when they don't
22:29have any evidence they will just cry power so i think i am against this kind of mindset where
22:33anything which is good for the common people they should take it positively rather than just opposing
22:38it all right your time is up but you know the fact is uh nobody is questioning the efficacy of this
22:44app of being a cyber security tool what everyone is questioning is how it is mandatory allow me to
22:52download something don't decide for me that you are going to put an app and i don't have uh you know the
22:57ability uh or uh that i can't actually delete the app that is what is being in question rohan gupta and
23:03if you say there is no backtrack of course there's a backtrack it started with what the department of
23:08telecommunications first the first uh communication seemed to suggest very clearly that this app could
23:16not be deleted that's what it was and then there was a u-turn where you where it was said you can
23:21delete the app fine you had uh you know companies like apple push back and say that we are not going
23:28to allow it and today what is being uh you know communicated by the government is that we don't
23:33even need to pre-install it so what really happened i'll circle back to you but adal singh boparoy the fact
23:38is much ado about nothing this is a cyber security app uh you know there are fair amount of complaints
23:45where cyber fraud is concerned how do you control that you actually and the government had given an
23:50option to people you try to turn it around and make it a surveillance issue pretty had this program
23:57gone through this would have been the largest surveillance program which human mankind has seen
24:04the largest surveillance program which any country has installed and we are glad that the government
24:11has revoked and retracted on this and this is obviously because of the pressure of the congress
24:16party and the general public outrage about intruding into people's lives point number one point number
24:24two on a fundamental level of privacy why should the government decide which app should be there on
24:30my phone it is my right it is out of my volition i will choose whether i want x app or y app the
24:38government cannot play the orwellian state or be the brick brother and decide number two number three
24:45please see the intention of this government first they pass a directive without consulting relevant
24:53stakeholders the parliament is in session they did not consult any opposition party and they issue a
24:59directive to all telephone manufacturers to pre-install this then once the cat is out of the bag and there is
25:07pressure they are forced to retract so therefore this this government repeatedly plays this game
25:12to intrude into human lives which is absolutely undemocratic and unacceptable number four to take
25:20my friend rohan's point further if their intention is to augment cyber security in this country
25:27then the way forward is to empower cyber police stations give them the equipment to trace make them
25:35more responsive educate them give them scientific training that is what you need you need to
25:41strengthen your cyber police station we all are cognizant of cyber frauds which take place but this app
25:48is a backdoor pretty let me repeat this app was a backdoor to intrude listen eavesdrop and snoop
25:56on 1.5 billion indians all right i want to cut across to kanishkor kanishkor you know the larger
26:02question now also is being raised by many including many cyber experts is that will the government now
26:07release a privacy audit of the sanchar sati app idly it should have done before bringing this app or
26:15mandating something like this we have seen multiple government apps have major cyber security issues
26:21let's look at your digi atra app last week there was a company which had cloned the digi atra app
26:28and before that a startup challenge was launched and the personal identifiable information of millions
26:34of indians was breached from the digi atra app before that we had coven app as well now when government
26:41wants to mandate such apps they should have the right level of assurance they should publish an
26:46independent report stating how this app will not be used for surveillance and it has the right level
26:52of safeguards to ensure privacy which is a fundamental right of every citizen of india is being
26:58implemented on ground mind you the government is trying to bring in a data protection bill
27:02and at the same time if you're trying to put in such apps then i don't know where this country is
27:08heading towards so we need to ensure that rather than just you know politicians coming and talking and
27:14saying you know the app is safe and secure let's show it on ground by bringing in real technical
27:20analysis of such an app stating it's free and secure and you can use government's own machinery
27:26you have independent assessors auditors certain panel auditors produce a report stating this app is
27:33fully secure it will safeguard personal identifiable information and the user data of millions of indians
27:38will not be leaked to third party or will not be misused by the government for surveillance
27:42where is that independent assessment right now none of it exists right and there is no parliamentary
27:48consultation which has been done no public consultation even involving civil society forget
27:53bringing in the tech companies now when everyone is coming out and saying that this is not the way
27:59you operate in a democracy then the government is going back and changing the method saying okay now
28:05you are free to use whether you want to download or not it is not mandatory so i think there has to be
28:12a course connection here all right i want to bring in ennis napina into this conversation because
28:17privacy surveillance uh ma'am seems to be a smoke and mirror game because there is already apprehensions
28:22you're coming at the back of pegasus where we still don't know the court has mandated a committee we
28:27still don't know what the findings of that committee was um you know the first thing i want to come in
28:33on is to say don't look a gift horse in the mouth you know it's a good move that the government has done
28:39now i'm glad that they have recalled this directive uh needless to add that the directive per se itself
28:46was unsustainable but whatever the reason they have recalled it so i want to uh you know add here
28:53on what ought to be done going forward now your concern i'm talking to the government here of course
29:00your concern is that there are a lot of crimes that are being committed and that you must find a
29:06solution to stop the misuse of stolen phones so find a less intrusive option needless to add that
29:15sanchar saati per se as you rightly said ma'am it's not it was never about the app or the service it was
29:22about it being forced on users that was impermissible nobody is questioning that this may be a good service
29:30so let people decide and meanwhile as the other panelists have shared ensure that there is
29:38transparency in the manner in which the app is going to function what are the kind of data that
29:46you're going to collect how are you going to use it how long is it going to be stored or retained
29:52who all are you going to transfer it to my concern arise because there was a very strange move a while
29:59back a few years back where our license details and driving uh the vehicle registration details
30:07under vahan and sati were actually uh sold by the government see these are not details we have the
30:14option to share or not when you're collecting data as a governance process it cannot be shared with public
30:22private power parties on the ground that the government is making some money my data is not
30:27available for sale and okay the data protection act includes the state ma'am your time is up i'm you
30:35know i'm running out of time but i'd like to give one minute each to all our panelists and rohan gupta
30:40the fact is the other question is if one had to only retract you know after a fair amount of pushback
30:46both politically and otherwise did anyone think over the legality of it or rather even the
30:51constitutionality of this app one minute sir i think you are mixing you are mixing two things
30:57retraction is not of the app retraction is of the pre-installation of the app exactly mind you 20
31:02crore users so that's what i'm saying so app is not stopped people are still using it while we are
31:07talking the constitutionality of having it pre-installed that's what i'm questioning
31:11make your point sir if you are also buying a phone there are 50 apps which are pre-installed by the
31:17manufacturer it doesn't mean that those app are snooping on you or they are getting your details
31:21no it's a facility whether you want to use it don't want to use it that's up to you and what kind of
31:26things this app is doing it is reporting of suspected frauds blocked or stolen phone know the mobile
31:32number connections in your name know the genuineness of the mobile set you are buying so what data this
31:37app is taking absolutely no data this is just to help the user this is what i'm saying definitely you
31:43can question the process and all but when you question the government's intention at least you
31:47should have proof rather than just throwing stone in air and that's why government before before they
31:52question unnecessarily the intention of the government the pre-installation is stopped that doesn't
31:56mean that the app is stopped people are still going and yesterday only there are more than eight
32:00like no boots i think you're missing the woods for the trees here nobody's questioning the efficacy
32:05of the app the app in effect is great i was actually thinking because i've lost two phones
32:09i was actually thinking of downloading it but you can't tell me that it's going to be pre-mandated
32:13you're going to you can't tell me that you will in it's going to come pre-installed
32:18it's pro-choice no sir and that is the right to privacy one minute uh uh to the congress spokesperson go
32:23ahead the defining feature of this party in government is intimidation so how do you intimidate
32:32people you intimidate people by carrying on out a massive surveillance program and you start digging
32:39in their personal information so in the guise of a very benign so-called cyber security imei
32:46protective app this was a mass surveillance program i think that's beyond any pale of doubt number one
32:53number two this government has a habit of thrusting its half-baked policies which lack intellect which
33:01lack constitutionality which lack international best practices onto the people and once there is
33:08sustained pressure they withdraw so i think it is in the interest of the government to consult
33:14stakeholders and those individuals who understand systems of course cyber security needs to be
33:21strengthened but it needs to be done in a scientific way all right kanish got to you to pull you in
33:28because you know the intent of the government is clear and the intent was right we do need something
33:35to strengthen cyber security there is cyber fraud in this country there's nothing really wrong with the
33:39app i was actually thinking of installing it but what was wrong in the manner in which it was being
33:43pushed through do you think the government was trying to test waters to see if they can see
33:49the government did not build the right level of privacy and trust if you have to build something
33:55like this and take it at a mass level you need to have reasonable assurance testing and standards
34:01rolled out you need to have a clear standard operating procedures saying that you are going to
34:05introduce this app firstly get in the parliamentarians was the parliamentary standing committee informed
34:12about this decision was it even discussed if they were trying to build this app out and it was this
34:18app existed for so long suddenly what is the need of bringing this out without taking informed consent
34:25from different users uh why were the some of the tech companies on whom it was imposed not even
34:31consulted once why you had to face backlash from companies like apple saying we will not go ahead
34:37and install this app right and that's that's pure embarrassment all of this could have been
34:42avoided if the government would have followed a democratic procedure you you know in some of
34:48the other laws which ministry of electronics has come out there were public consultations sorry
34:52the time's up i you know i've run out of time ennis napinai your final one minute ma'am last submission go ahead
34:57yeah so there was this question raised by uh the government uh person spokesperson about uh you
35:05know uh lack of trust the issue sir here is not about lack of trust it's the government's duty and
35:12responsibility that we are questioning you have the duty to protect us against scams at the same time
35:19you do not have the right to intrude on our privacy whilst uh uh you know complying with your
35:26responsibility so when you say something has to come pre-installed you do not you as a government
35:32do not stand on the same footing as corporate entities when a corporate entity intrudes on our
35:38privacy we have our rights against them when the government intrudes on our privacy it is a
35:43constitutional guarantee violation and therefore you will be answerable then when it comes to judicial
35:50review this is the crux of the issue in terms of why it was recalled i don't think it was a political
35:56diatribe that resulted in it i would like to give the benefit of doubt to the government to say
36:02wisdom all right all right time's up thank you all four of you for joining us like we said earlier you
36:07know nobody is questioning the efficacy of the app of being a security tool a cyber security tool what one
36:13question was uh how it was mandatory and pre-installed and something which i guess the government has
36:19realized and backtracked on well delhi is no stranger to abject poor air quality and uh right now
36:25thankfully it seemingly become an issue where parliament is concerned uh the congress today turned
36:32the spotlight on what it calls government inaction on pollution staging dramatic protests outside the
36:37house what you can see on your television screen uh is uh congress mps wearing masks in protest also
36:45sonia gandhi in an op-ed has termed india's air pollution a slow motion tragedy warning citizens
36:51are being forced to breathe toxic air in midst of all of this inside parliament congress mps also like i
36:57pointed out downed masks and protested outside what they call was an air emergency taking a step further
37:04congress mp imran masood arrived with an oxygen cylinder amplifying the party's charge and the
37:10capital is running out of breath now the congress trying to make a political statement of it at a
37:16point where inside parliament hours have been allotted to discuss one day matram but till now we
37:22haven't seen a constructive debate where pollution in the national capital and other cities in india is
37:29concerned with that was one development today in parliament the other one also consider uh was
37:37also concerning a congress leader and this time it was renuka chowdhury rao over renuka chowdhury's
37:43dog bite intensifies remember uh renuka chowdhury had got her own dogs to parliament uh and she was
37:49questioned on that account and why she had bought her dog she says real dogs are inside today
37:55there is word that the bjp might be moving a privilege motion against her responding to that
38:01question about the privilege motion renuka made a dog sound listen in
38:05all right two developments there i want to bring in rahul gotham rahul gotham i think uh for most of
38:26us in delhi for the first time many uh you know would be backing the opposition on the account of
38:32raising the pollution issue how uh serious is the congress to push forth for a debate on pollution
38:39in the uh parliament number one number two what's going on with renuka chowdhury's uh possible
38:46privilege motion against her and her retorting in a woof rather than a statement well as far as the air
38:53policy distinction i can tell the truth is that it's one of the uh you know one of the main
38:57reasons that as far as congress distinction after sr uh and the tradition bomb blood that happened in
39:03the national capital and uh you know rahe gandhi he can check out a video over in america uh you know
39:10people who are actually getting affected with the rise of the nation uh if you remember we had uh uh
39:17he had posted a video earlier also with environmentalists at the india gate so as far as congress
39:21president uh uh uh and that's why you saw you know uh a member of parliaments like uh uh dipendal
39:28hudda ibran mason and molana uh you know uh mc strong and haryana are coming out with oxygen
39:37marks just to put out uh uh you know a message that the government is just serious in fact rahul
39:42gandhi has said yesterday uh that the dog issue uh renuka thought this dog issue is being popped up
39:48only to uh you know uh just deviate uh uh or just being a distract from the issue of a rising air
39:54pollution as far as henuka shawdinkelson uh you guys mentioned that when she was asked about a
39:59possible premium motion against her for bringing her dog uh in the car at which she safely said
40:05bhaubo and and you know walked away obviously uh it seemed that she's absolutely unfaithed and
40:10undeterred and it seems that uh you know she is okay we'll know we'll know what comes of that but
40:17like i said on a serious note we really do hope that pollution does become an issue that is discussed
40:22on the floor of the house and many many not just in the national capital would agree on that uh with
40:28that uh you know we're going to slip into a break but i want to leave you with an excerpt uh from my
40:32podcast with amrindar singh where he reflected he's in the bjp now where he reflected on the 2027
40:38panjab election admitting that his party the bhartiya janta party would not be able to do it alone
40:43and would need to ally listen in and thank you for watching bjp has been a party that at least
40:51hasn't been able to understand panjab and electorally there is you know been evidence to suggest the
40:57same and panjabbis haven't been able to understand the but i'll tell you why that's it's it's unfair to
41:02say that because or let's say the earlier leaders of the bjp went wrong what they should have done
41:10was you should fight every election that comes you can't run away from a battle you should fight if
41:16let's say the first was 1950 okay bjp should have put up whatever number seats there were
41:22and then as elections come every seat you should fight then you build up your cadres
41:27now what they were doing they were having 10 people or 15 people fighting in alliance with
41:33the akali dal so the akali used to benefit from them but they never benefited from anyone
41:38and today if you are facing this crisis it's because you have never built up your cadres
41:44but for a party where the core ideology is hindutwa how does that cut any electoral ice in uh
41:50well if they want to win to this time see it's it's it's then they will there are two ways of looking at
41:56it either you build up your cadres or you have an alliance and form a government if you want to
42:02form a government then you have to do it with the kalida there's no other way of the bjp forming
42:08up any sort of a being part of any sort of government in punjab or if you want to build up your cadres
42:15then we prepared for two three elections to fight all hundred and what would you advise them this time
42:20around sorry what would you advise them this time around to join i think punjab needs governance good
42:27governance and it needs you why are we late just now because the electricity wasn't all goes off
42:34we are getting eight nine hours nine park outs every year every year how can industry come here who will
42:40come here and work like this i mean there are so many things that punjab can do but we can't do it
42:46because we don't have this government does not serious in its in its soul and you've got to have
42:51a government that can really be serious and go about it and have a good government to govern but
42:56you know for someone who knows so i would say that yes you must have an alliance they don't like it
43:02they won't like it a lot of people don't like it when i say this but i think it's if you want to form
43:07a government if you don't want to form a government then there's nothing then you fight all the seeds
43:11so what you're advocating is is an alliance with the kalis with the kalis the kalis there are also
43:16three kalis that we have to see you have to pick one the strongest of the lot you have to choose well
43:21the ones that when we have come nearer the election you'll know which one is dominating
43:26and then you talk to them and do it
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