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The big talking point of this episode of To The Point is the political fallout from a shirtless protest by Youth Congress members at the India AI Summit, which led to multiple arrests.
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00:02Banyan stir, backfires on Congress.
00:07Allies and insiders slam Congress publicly.
00:23But Congress refuses to back down.
00:30Pradhan Mantri is liya darte hain, kyunki inke shabd koosh mein loktantra naam ka shabd nahi.
00:36Is India Block losing faith in the Sutradhar?
00:45Good evening, you're watching To The Point.
00:48I'm Preeti Chaudhary.
00:49Lots going on at the back of the protests and the AI summit by Congress workers, all of them still
00:55in jail.
00:56There's a different conversation and a debate whether the charges against them are too harsh.
01:01But when politics comes into play, alliance members of the India Alliance now gunning for the Congress.
01:09What does it mean?
01:10We'll find out.
01:12Let's take a look at the headlines.
01:17The Maiden Cabinet meeting will take place at Sevatirth tomorrow at 11am.
01:22Prime Minister inaugurated the Sevatirth building on February 13th.
01:27Sevatirth replaces the old PMO at South Block.
01:36Tamil Nadu chief electoral officer releases final electoral list post-SIR exercise.
01:42Around 70 lakh voter names deleted.
01:44Tamil Nadu now left with 5.67 crore voters.
01:51TVK chief Vijay roars from well or launches scathing attack on Chief Minister Stalin.
01:57He questions Chief Minister as to why he blamed Vijay for Karoor's stampede.
02:06High drama in Lucknow University over Namaz while one student group insists on Namaz rival student groups, Gheral the Proctor.
02:15Cops struggle to contain activists.
02:25Elusive cartel leader known as El Mencho and one of the world's most wanted drug traffickers dies after sustaining injuries
02:32in a military operation in Mexico.
02:35Chaos panic grips Mexico with burning vehicles and blocked roads.
02:49All right, our talk focus.
02:51What many thought was an unsavory protest.
02:53Why did the Congress have to come in and protest inside the exhibition area of the AI summit?
02:59Many thought it was disrespectful to our international guests as well as indigenous, you know, innovators who've come in hoping
03:07to get business.
03:09But there's a political fallout of that as well.
03:11Legal one, of course, because the members of the Youth Congress are still in jail.
03:16Some would suggest in charges way harsher than what they had attempted to do.
03:20But the politics of it all, viewers, on the other hand, understandable that the BJP is gunning for the Congress.
03:26But India Alliance members, the Samajwadi Party, the TMC, the DMK, the Uddhav Sena, all knives out for the Congress,
03:35especially when it comes to the AI summit protest.
03:52A global stage.
03:57A shirtless protest.
04:06And now,
04:07a full-blown political storm.
04:19What began as a dramatic show of dissent has snowballed into a bruising battle within the opposition with the Congress
04:26at the very centre of it.
04:30The BJP has ceased the movement.
04:42Prime Minister Narendra Modi attacked the Congress, saying it has always been naked.
04:46The Congress has been naked.
05:19But the sharpest barbs aren't just coming from the BJP.
05:23Senior Congress leader and former union minister Margaret Alwa called for decorum on international platforms,
05:30clarifying that her remarks were personal and not a dilution of her commitment to the party's ideology.
05:38I think at international events, there has to be dignity, there has to be discipline and there has to be
05:47a sense of responsibility.
05:49Voices from the TMC have said national honor cannot be sacrificed at the altar of politics.
05:59Earlier Samajwadi Party and the RJD too also raised similar concerns.
06:14But the Congress is refusing to retreat.
06:18Leaders argue the Prime Minister is scared of protest and intolerant of dissent.
06:48Meanwhile, the BJP says, this episode has exposed cracks within the India block.
06:53Claiming even allies are now questioning Congress conduct and leadership.
07:22So the larger political question now looms.
07:25Are allies looking for a change?
07:27Is there discomfort over leadership?
07:32Does Congress need to loosen its grip on the sutradhar role within the alliance?
07:37Or is it simply an attempt to cut the party down to size while it appears resurgent?
07:44Even within Congress, murmurs of introspection are growing louder.
07:50Besides Rahul Dhandi, try to stay on this side.
07:55Any other party, the small party, Stalin's home, or any other party, will have a lot of time to run.
08:05On the ground, the heat is rising.
08:10Delhi police have arrested seven in connection with the shirtless Youth Congress protest.
08:16Protesters face serious charges under the BNS, including criminal conspiracy and promoting enmity.
08:23Congress alleges illegal detention and political vendetta.
08:30The banyan stir was designed to embarrass the government.
08:34But has it instead cornered the Congress?
08:37At a time when the opposition is trying to project unity, this controversy has triggered questions of optics, leadership and
08:45discipline.
08:49The protest may be over.
08:52The political fallout is not.
08:55With Mawasami Singh and Aishwarya Paliwal, Bureau Report, India Today.
09:04On the legal ramifications also being faced by members of the Youth Congress,
09:08seven of them in jail facing very harsh charges where the BNS is concerned.
09:14Let's cut across to our guests right now.
09:16All of them will get two minutes to put their points forward.
09:18Joining me this evening, Anish Gawande, Spokesperson, NCP, Sharad Pawar Faction,
09:23Sanju Verma, National Spokesperson, Bharatiya Janata Party,
09:26Avani Bansal, National Spokesperson, Congress, Ghansham Tiwari, National Spokesperson, Samajwadi Party.
09:31Mr. Ghansham Tiwari, might we begin with you this evening?
09:35Usually we've seen you vociferously stand by your ally, the Congress, especially when it's facing off with the BJP.
09:42But today, it seems that your leader has chosen to stand with the BJP in criticizing the Congress in this
09:48protest.
09:50Good evening, Priti, to you, the viewers and the co-panelists.
09:54I think in no extraordinary words one should state in plain speak that this protest is not in good taste.
10:04And there cannot be a defense who overtook the decision to protest like this at the AI summit.
10:10The decision was wrong, both from a point of view of the party itself and the point of view of
10:15the national movement of AI summit,
10:17when people from across the world were there.
10:20Now, if you look at the political backdrop of this decision and how BJP is latching on to that backdrop,
10:25these are times when Hardeep Puri has to do a lot of explanation.
10:30The Prime Minister has to say what is his relationship with Hardeep Puri given the revelations in Epstein file.
10:36Every week we see new revelations with respect to the Adani corruption scandal spanning out.
10:42Every week the amount of evidence against Anil Ambani and the song and dance comment with respect to the Prime
10:49Minister's visit in Israel in 2017
10:50becomes bigger in the international arena and the Prime Minister is in Israel.
10:56So, from those perspectives, one has to look at this as the weakest moment of the leadership of Prime Minister
11:03in terms of his credibility internationally and in terms of his credibility within the country
11:08to the extent that he is even unable to speak in the parliament, that the speaker has to laughably come
11:14up with…
11:14Can I hold your clock? I'm just going to hold your clock, sir.
11:17You know, I'm going to ask our producers to hold the clock and I'm going to ask you a rebuttal.
11:22I rarely do it to interrupt.
11:23So, are you saying that the Congress, by the virtue of this protest,
11:28has distracted away from what are the pertinent questions that should have been asked by the government?
11:34So, in effect, the Congress is ineffective in being the leader of opposition.
11:40Well, if you look at the government itself, Prime Minister, afraid of parliament.
11:44The speaker is in the dock for his own… the speaker elected by BJP is in the dock, Mr. Om
11:50Birla.
11:51His government stands compromised on corruption and national integrity with respect to Anil…
11:58with respect to the book, as well as with respect to national security issues
12:03and with respect to the foreign partnership state deals with respect to US.
12:07So, in many ways, this was an opportunity to put the government on the mat and be the voice of
12:13the people.
12:13By this protest, the Congress party gave an opportunity for BJP to escape this…
12:20Okay.
12:21I don't think they can escape, but it has gotten…
12:24All right. Do we have Anish Gawande with us? We do.
12:26You know, I just want to go to the allies before we come to the two principal warring factions,
12:30which is the principal opposition Congress and the BJP.
12:33So, Anish Gawande, you just heard out Gansham Tiwari, who usually always has his allies back
12:39and today very clearly standing in the corner of the BJP.
12:43Where does your party stand? Was this protest justified?
12:47Do you think should have been avoided?
12:51Preeti, to start off with, thank you for having me on your show.
12:54And let me begin with a frank admission.
12:56When this protest took place, I, like many others, including Manoj Jhaji, who has written beautifully about this today,
13:04were slightly disturbed.
13:06The first reaction was that this was not the forum for protest,
13:09this was not where this protest should have taken place.
13:11In hindsight, however, I think it has become painfully obvious
13:15that the actions taken against the protestors were not only disproportionate,
13:20but have brought more shame to the country than the actual act of the protest itself.
13:24Just a few days ago, you saw indigenous protestors protest against King Charles in Australia.
13:30They were asked to leave the venue.
13:32This is the prerogative of the government.
13:34They've organized the India AI summit.
13:36They've thought that this protest is not valid.
13:38They can request the protestors to leave.
13:40But in a democracy, to lead them to five-day police custody,
13:45while people like Vijay Shah, who called Colonel Sofia Qureshi the sister of terrorists,
13:51are still lying as ministers in the MP government, is laughable.
13:56What kind of disproportionate action is this?
13:58And what kind of action are you taking that requires five-day police custody of peaceful protestors in a democracy?
14:05I think in many ways the problem today is that the protest itself has been blown out of proportion.
14:12I think the democratic right to protest is one that every single Indian enjoys.
14:17And the Delhi police, which could have taken action much sooner,
14:20but clearly allowed these protestors to stage their action because they knew that it would give them a way,
14:26and the government a way, to avoid the embarrassment that had been caused by the Galgothia scandal,
14:31by the complete mismanagement of that summit, and by the failure in many ways of the Indian government.
14:36Let me hold your clock. Allow me, Anish. Can I hold your clock? Last 15 seconds, and I'm going to
14:40hold it.
14:41You know, and the reason I'm holding your clock is because I'm going to ask you that question that I
14:44asked Ghansham Tiwari.
14:46Do you think the protest, as an ally, you might have a personal opinion which says that I wasn't happy
14:50in the beginning
14:51because I thought, you know, it could have been avoided or done in a better fashion.
14:55Now, does your party feel that the protest was justified and there was nothing wrong in it? What's your party's
15:01stand?
15:02The party stands firmly with the Indian Youth Congress.
15:06We condemn the detention of all Youth Congress appointees and functionaries, especially of the IYC president.
15:13All right. Okay. So there are two divergent points of view that are coming in from two allies of the
15:19Congress party.
15:20I'd like to also put out the TMC has decided to stay away from this conversation,
15:24but they're very clear that they're not quite happy with what really went down.
15:27But put that in perspective, they have an election to fight against the Congress in just the next month and
15:31a half,
15:32where the state of West Bengal is concerned.
15:34But what explains the DMK coming out and stating the same?
15:37That, hmm, unavoidable. The Uddhav Sena saying should not have happened.
15:41And they've even gone a step further, suggesting that it's problematic the leadership of the party.
15:48Maybe we need a new leader in the form of a Mamata Banerjee.
15:51So read that all in context while I bring in the Congress spokesperson right now, and then we'll go across
15:55to Sanju Verma.
15:56But cutting across to the Congress spokesperson, you have, ma'am, at one end, your own party members.
16:04You've had a Manish Shankaraya, you can call him disgruntled.
16:07On the other hand, you had a Margaret Alwa, who was your projection as a president, vice president candidate.
16:13And even she has come out and said very clearly that, listen, it should not have happened.
16:18Of course, she's gone out and we'll put that tweet out where she said that, you know, my party, internal
16:24democracy,
16:25suggests that I can actually express my dissent, unlike the Bharatiya Janata Party.
16:29Let's put that tweet out by Margaret Alwa after her statement.
16:34But your allies think you're in the wrong. Your own party members think you're in the wrong.
16:39Why so belligerent and trying to brazen it out? Admit it was in bad taste.
16:46Preeti, thank you so much for your question.
16:48As you've just heard from the panelists, one may have their own opinions about the form of the protest.
16:54But absolutely everybody in the opposition is in unison as far as the substance of the protest is concerned.
17:01Let's be also very clear that to dissent in our democracy, there is no permission required of anybody.
17:09Our constitution protects even a single person holding a placard, whether you like it or not, as long as it
17:15is done peacefully.
17:16And why go far? Look at the Commonwealth Games.
17:19We know that the BJP protested even when the whole of the world descended to Delhi for the Commonwealth Games.
17:24Even when the Howdy Modi event was happening at the Madison Square, there were protests.
17:29So what is one thing in common across international events is that peaceful protests have found a space.
17:35The real question is that by stifling dissent, what the BJP is trying to do is to change the very
17:41nature of democracy into a management opera.
17:44If the government has nothing to fear, why fear young people raising slogans so much?
17:51In fact, my theory is that every time something like this happens, peaceful protests, BJP, through the police and through
17:58the institutions captured,
18:00tries to make this about further stifling the voices of opposition in the country.
18:05Now we'll try and figure out where is the final...
18:07Can I hold, Avni Bansar, I'd like to hold your, you know, I think today's a day to hold everybody's
18:10timer.
18:10But I'm going to come back and ask you this question again, which I had asked the Congress spokesperson on
18:16Friday itself.
18:17While you say that peaceful protests should be allowed, 100 percent, peaceful protests are a part of democracy, should be
18:23allowed.
18:23But when you enter an exhibition area, are you not somewhere down the line also disrespecting, disrupting, you know, the
18:31process of it all?
18:32There are indigenous innovators coming in with a lot of hope to attract business, leave alone, maybe embarrass international guests.
18:40Nobody's telling you not to protest, but it's just the way it was done. Make your point.
18:47Rahul Gandhi ji has been constantly pointing out that all avenues of democratic protest are being shunned down.
18:53When the opposition is not allowed to speak in the parliament, when the media, as we are seeing, is in
18:58a state where freedom of voice is being stifled down.
19:01If young people found an avenue, well, you can judge the form as much as you like, but the questions
19:06that they're asking, the way they're being treated,
19:08I think that raises way more fundamental questions that should ideally be addressed, in my opinion, on this TV debate.
19:15All right, fair point. You had seven more seconds, but we're going to leave it at that.
19:18I want to bring in Sanju Verma into this conversation. Sanju Verma, you know, you've heard it not just from
19:23the allies,
19:24you've heard it from members of the Congress as well. Some of them personally have come out and said, in
19:28bad taste.
19:30But leave it to bad taste, because A, it's a protest, protests are allowed, it's done in a bad way.
19:36Many think it's disrespected. Our own innovators, international guests, you can judge that.
19:43But, Sanju Verma, today, and we put up the charges that have been framed against these five protestors.
19:50Don't you think the kind of charges framed against a protest like these and these protestors who continue to be
19:56in jail are a lot harsher than what really has gone down?
20:00Let's put up the list of charges. The list of charges, let's put those up. Go ahead, Sanju Verma.
20:05You know, Preeti, with no offence to you, you have been in the news, you've been all over social media
20:11over the weekend.
20:12I will not get into the argument about whether there should be a designated protest or not.
20:16Madam, let me hold your timer on this. You said I've been in the news, allow me.
20:20Allow me, no. I will let you complete. Like I said, today is a day to hold timers.
20:26Ma'am, ithana toh? Come on. Let me ask you one question.
20:30Let me, Sanju Verma, allow me to ask you one question. You began with something, allow me to ask you.
20:35And you have enough ample time to answer. You're saying I've been all over the news over the weekend.
20:40Madam, you were on the show, no? Yes.
20:42You were on the same show on Friday with me.
20:44Preeti, correct.
20:45Which was a question posed to you. So you know exactly what went down.
20:48You know exactly what was clipped. Now let's go.
20:52Preeti, come on. You know I love coming on your shows. We've had some very, you know, heated arguments.
20:59But like politicians should have a thick skin. You know, you are an up and rising journo.
21:03You should also have a thick skin, Preeti. You can't be telling everybody who questions you,
21:07or you are a troll, that's a troll. You know, rhinoceros skin is not a little, so keep a little.
21:14But I will just come to the moot point. Because this is a widely watched show. This is not about
21:19Preeti Chaudhary or Sanju Verma.
21:20Hindi mein kahawat hai. Zindidi mein ek usool zarur rakho. Yaaro se gaddaari nahi aur gaddaaron ke saath yaari nahi.
21:30Congress me toh desh ke saath gaddaari nahi and look at the audacity of the darbari ecosystem led by Rahul
21:38Gandhi and his vanquished family retainers.
21:41They are saying, so what? This was a peaceful protest? Sorry. You chose the wrong venue. You chose the wrong
21:49time.
21:50And when I say you, I mean the Congress protestors, so-called 40-year-old pot-bellied protestors who call
21:56themselves youngsters.
21:57But that's besides the point. The limited point is this, that Sam Altman, Sundar Pichai, Kristalina Georgieva, the MD of
22:06IMF,
22:06UN Secretary General Antonio Guetris, they all said, AI is accessible, AI is ethical, AI has been democratized, AI is
22:16authentic.
22:17And who has made this possible? Narendra Modi. And what else did Emmanuel Macron say?
22:23What Prime Minister Modi has done in the last 11 years, no country has been able to do for a
22:28population of 1.45 billion.
22:31And what does the opposition say? They talk about Galgothia, they will talk about why Uday Banu Chib has been
22:37arrested, why not?
22:39I said, give them the harshest punishment. And I think Preeti, I was given lesser time, because before I could
22:44even speak, I was told it's 50 seconds.
22:47No, ma'am, you've been given, you know, one thing everyone says, they've been given lesser time, I'll come back
22:51to you for your two minutes again.
22:52All of you have been given exactly the equal time. You say one should have a thicker skin of a
22:56rhinoceros, that's for politicians, ma'am.
22:59Politicians need to have a thicker skin, where journalists are concerned, they need to call out propaganda when they see
23:03it.
23:04And that's exactly what I did when my clip was cut, stitched together, clipped, and tried to be passed off
23:11as something it wasn't.
23:12So it's my duty to do what I did, and I did so. Maybe others don't on other channels, but
23:16here we do.
23:17Let's get back to this conversation. We start with two minutes again. I will bring in Ghansham Tiwari.
23:22Ghansham Tiwari, do you agree somewhere down the line with the voices coming in from your own alliance?
23:28And when I say you, I'm talking about your party line, that maybe there needs to be a change of
23:32guard.
23:33You've heard it coming in, echoing, especially from the Uddhav Sena, repeatedly, first it happened in an editorial.
23:40And now openly, they are saying that maybe, you know, it's time for a Mamata Bananji to take over for
23:44a shorter while, maybe should do a better job.
23:48Well, clearly, I think the question is directed towards, the narrative of this question is directed towards the wrong end.
23:55There has to be a change of guard in a government where the top ministers have lost their credibility or
24:02have become pigmented.
24:03Let's look at the current cabinet of the Prime Minister.
24:06Prime Minister, missing from the parliament, advised by Lok Sabha speaker against women MP attacking him in a party that
24:13has 93 members with criminal charges in the current Lok Sabha.
24:16A Prime Minister surrounded by 93 members with criminal charges is afraid of few women MPs.
24:21Rajnath Singh, exposed by the autobiography that is yet to be released of Major General Nirwani.
24:29Amit Shah, exposed in the Delhi blast case.
24:32Nirmala Sitarawan, exposed with the way budget played out.
24:35S. Jai Shankar, exposed in the way the Indian foreign policy has fallen flat between Russia to United States.
24:41Mr. Ashwani Vaishnav, exposed in the way Galgothia University played out.
24:46Mr. Piyush Goel, completely exposed in the ransom-like Indo-US trade deal that is playing out.
24:51And Hardeep Singh Puri, the granddaddy of this expose, has to answer a lot.
24:57And the Prime Minister has to answer a lot.
24:59He is the petroleum and natural gas minister.
25:01Do you think that AI movement in any country can happen without the access of enormous amount of energy?
25:07So, if our petroleum and natural gas minister has been exposed with, you know, tens to sixties of emails of
25:13conversations,
25:14that he has not come out clean, it has to be answered.
25:17So, government that from top to bottom.
25:19Okay.
25:20Can I hold your, you know, I am also, I am going to hold your timer.
25:23And I apologize to our back-end support staff because you are constantly having to hold the timer in our
25:28PCR.
25:29But let me ask you this question again, sir.
25:31You are saying the change of guard needs to happen from the government.
25:33I will just ask you one very direct question.
25:35Are you happy as a political party and ally of the Congress,
25:38very happy with the leader of opposition, Rahul Gandhi and the party being the principal party
25:44which is the fulcrum of your alliance?
25:46Go, sir.
25:47I will return that question to the viewers.
25:49You look at the way the parliament session proceeded.
25:51You look at the speeches made by India Alliance leaders from Akhilesh Yadavji to Rahul Gandhiji.
25:57And you look at the way, almost schoolboy-like way, the entire cabinet stood in the way when leader of
26:02opposition was speaking
26:03and Om Birla, the speaker of the house, rather discreetly did not allow that conversation to happen.
26:09I think the voters of our country have to look at the way opposition leaders have held India Alliance and
26:16their…
26:17Okay.
26:17Sir, time is up.
26:18Time is up.
26:19I want to bring in Anish Gawande into this conversation again.
26:22Anish Gawande, what is the reason that you see, you know, the split has always been there.
26:28Sometimes the fault lines are very visible and this is a time that one can see it,
26:32especially in the alliance which has been stitched very uneasily where the India bloc is concerned.
26:38Why is it many members of your own alliances coming out and being very openly critical of the Congress party
26:46today?
26:46Some of them might be fighting elections in their state, but it's not just restricted to those few, like the
26:51TMC.
26:54You know, Priti, the splits are not in the India Alliance's narrative, but rather in the BJP's accusations which seem
27:00to be getting more bizarre day by day.
27:03Initially, the accusations against these protesters were that they were anti-national and bringing shame to India.
27:07Today, it seems like the accusation is that they're pot-bellied and middle-aged and therefore we should have somebody
27:13with washboard abs opening up their shirts so that they can become a better spectacle for national television.
27:18So, you know, at the end of the day, let's remember that the BJP keeps spinning new narratives every single
27:24day to discredit any form of opposition in this country.
27:27They've not allowed protests anywhere.
27:29You try and get permission for a protest in New Delhi and it's impossible.
27:33They will shove you off to Jantar Mantar after decrying the uniform application of 144 when they were in the
27:39opposition, right?
27:40So this is why the opposition is continuously united across party lines on the treatment of protesters, which is what
27:46you must bear in mind.
27:47As to whether or not the opposition agrees on whether the youth wing of a particular party as a part
27:54of the India Alliance takes place or participates in a kind of protest, that's a difference of opinion that exists
27:59in every alliance.
28:01And finally, to your question of whether anybody is unhappy with the leader of the India Alliance, let me clarify.
28:07There is no leader of the India Alliance.
28:09The India Alliance does not have a post of India Alliance president or India Alliance chief.
28:14So every constitutive party of the India Alliance is treated with respect and every constitutive party of the India Alliance
28:20has the right to participate in electoral politics to its own gain.
28:25For example, we participate, fight against the Congress in Kerala.
28:27We come together with the Congress in Maharashtra, right?
28:30The leader of opposition is a constitutional post.
28:33It's one that Rahul Gandhiji has assumed as the leader of his party and it's one that he's performed incredibly
28:38well at.
28:39And we've supported him in Parliament and will continue to do so.
28:43Well, alright, okay, that's 12 seconds short.
28:45But the fact is, as a leader of opposition, it's a post that you have all accepted Rahul Gandhi to
28:51occupy.
28:52And it's not that he's done it by the virtue of just acceptance.
28:54The party has earned it in the number of seats it's won.
28:57Exactly.
28:57You know, if you juxtapose it with the number of seats you guys have won.
29:00But there is a difference there.
29:02Okay.
29:03So, I want to, you know, I'm going to just skip the Congress spokesperson.
29:06I'm coming right back to you ma'am, but allow me to bring in Sanju Verma first because he's very
29:09eager, you know, to come in on that.
29:11So, Sanju Verma, on one account you've been said that you've made ageist jokes on the youth Congress workers and
29:18also body shamed them.
29:20Well, the second, that's on a lighter note, but second, the sheer fact that there is no place to protest.
29:26In the Parliament, the allegation of the Congress is you shut them down.
29:29Where you talk about Jantar Mantar, like you said, over the course of the last two days, lots were said
29:34on social media.
29:35By the way, Jantar Mantar, you have to actually seek permission to protest.
29:39And there can only be a set number of people who can protest.
29:42So, there is really no avenue to protest.
29:44And the tenet of protest, Sanju Verma, you and I both know, is to occupy public spaces.
29:52You know, Preeti, now, no offence to you, you said the job of a journalist is to question propaganda.
29:59And I know I don't need to give you certificates, but you also need to question Congress propaganda, not just
30:05BJP propaganda.
30:06But I will come to the mood point, Preeti.
30:08Anish Gawande, here, you know, misquoted my statement, not that I care.
30:13Because his faction, the Sharath Pabar NCP, lost its national party status three years back.
30:19And let me remind Anish Gawande, a young woman in her twenties called Ketaki Chitale, famous Marathi actress.
30:26A young student, again in his twenties, called Nikhil Bhamre.
30:30You know why they were arrested? Summarily, without an FIR, when Uddhav Thakraya's dispensation was in power in Maharashtra?
30:38Simply because they shared a poem on Facebook criticizing Sharath Pabar.
30:43So, Anish Gawande should simply keep quiet and not make a fool of himself by peddling trash on national TV.
30:49First go and question Sharath Pabar, why youngsters in their twenties were arrested.
30:53Now, let me come to the moot point, Preeti.
30:56Rahul Gandhi and the Darmari ecosystem says, including Ghanshyam Tiwari,
31:01Prime Minister is compromised. I will tell you who is compromised.
31:05Rahul Gandhi, when Chandrayaan 2 refused to come to fruition, you were clapping.
31:11But when Chandrayaan 3 became a massive success, you did not applaud its role.
31:16Subhanshu Shukla became the first Indian astronaut to land at the International Space Station.
31:22But Rahul Gandhi, you did not applaud his achievement.
31:26When India overtook UK to become the world's fifth largest economy, Rahul Gandhi, you are compromised.
31:33You are compromised. You did not applaud India.
31:34When India overtook Japan to become the world's fourth largest economy, Rahul Gandhi, you did not applaud India.
31:41India, you are compromised. The AI summit was not BJP summit. It was India's moment. India's shining moment.
31:49And Rahul Gandhi, you chose to undermine India's shining moment by sending your boons because you are compromised.
31:55That's the hard truth, Priti.
31:58Okay. All right. But, Sanju Verma, like you said, I need to call out not just BJP propaganda, Congress propaganda,
32:06I agree.
32:07Every party runs a propaganda. It needs to be called out.
32:10And we endeavour to do so right here and which we did also on Friday where we said maybe it
32:15wasn't such a good idea to walk into a summit which was international in nature, which had international guests and
32:23which also had a lot of indigenous innovators hoping to get business and make it big.
32:29Right. But, on the other hand, we must also call out why such harsh charges being posed against at least
32:36prima facie what looks as an ill-timed, embarrassing protest.
32:41But I want to bring in the Congress spokesperson in all of this.
32:45Is there a sense, Abni Bansal, today that maybe it was a decision, a lot of political decisions are taken,
32:52some of them don't quite do well and in hindsight are regretful.
32:57Why is the Congress belligerent on sticking by a protest which clearly a lot of people don't quite agree with,
33:03which includes your own alliance members and your own party members?
33:07Except it was a mistake, should have happened, maybe in a different venue, and move on from there.
33:14Thank you, Priti. First, let me just make my point clear to the BJP spokesperson.
33:19Chillane se, dhamkaane se, daraane se, Congress darnewali nahi hai. Point number one.
33:27Point number two, what were my brothers who were protesting at Bharat Mantapam saying PM is compromised.
33:35Today on your TV debate, I want to say PM is compromised.
33:38My brother Hari, when he was being arrested by the police, made a statement that was played out by the
33:43ANI that Hardeep Singh Puri must go.
33:45And today on your TV debate, I want to reiterate, Hardeep Singh Puri must go.
33:49Today, it is the IYC protesters. Yesterday, it was the farmers. Tomorrow, there will be more people.
33:55But what this protest has shown is the real face of the BJP. You've slapped charges to ensure that any
34:03critical voice is thwarted.
34:05The Pradhan Mantri uses words like nangapa. Is that the language of the Prime Minister?
34:11With respect, I want to say, I can't even bring myself to use those words on a TV debate.
34:17And being the Prime Minister, he's using those words. And third, when you've arrested or detained IYC Indian Youth Congress
34:24President Mr Uday Banu Chip,
34:25what is the message that you're trying to show?
34:28If you raise your voice, we will make a decision in front of your society.
34:31Make it. You will make one thing. Tomorrow, there will be millions of people.
34:35But Congress will stand for the constitutional liberty of freedom of speech and expression.
34:41People, as long as it is peaceful. And this was a peaceful protest.
34:45BJP's spokesperson didn't give you a response.
34:47When the Commonwealth was there, it was the world and India's pride.
34:51The BJP's people didn't protest there.
34:54So, in that moment, Congress's government didn't have BJP's people.
34:57Do you like it or don't like it?
35:00But in a prajatantra, the opposition will try to raise their voice on such platforms,
35:07where the media will cover it.
35:09You don't like its nature or taste.
35:10You don't like it or don't like it.
35:11But when you raise your voice, why do you have your voice on it?
35:14That's my question.
35:14All right. Okay. So, that's all the time that we have for.
35:16I need to quickly step into a break.
35:18I appreciate all four of you for taking the time out and joining us,
35:20putting your party's point forward.
35:23We're going to leave it at that.
35:24And we leave it for our viewers' better judgment to decide which side of the divide they stand on.
35:28I want to put the focus now in Malayanagar, the heart of the national capital,
35:32which saw the most blatant and the most horrific of racial abuse,
35:37where it came down to a 20 and a 21-year-old young woman from Arunachal Pradesh.
35:42Both these women.
35:43What started off as a small dispute over dust, which while these two young girls,
35:51who were living as tenants, had called somebody to fix an air conditioner,
35:55and the engineer came and was trying to fix the air conditioner.
36:00There was some dust which fell on their neighbors.
36:02What resulted in was a horrific racial attack on these two young women,
36:06who are in the national capital to study for UPSC exams.
36:11Right from why don't you sell momos, you run a massage parlor, go back to your state.
36:17Slurs like this were used on both these two young women,
36:21who since then are in a state of shock.
36:32Do it!
36:33Are you having XXXX?
36:33Stop talking!
36:36Stopaime me!
36:37Stop!
36:38Stop calling me!
36:40Stop calling!
36:40You're the people who are doing massage parlor on the street call on us?
36:44You are sick!
36:45Office parlor!
36:46This is a joke!
36:47You're not still ай·pe gospel?
36:49elected слуш hai b 했습니다!
36:52Wait, you are a Isaiar-
36:54Who are an Isaiar-
36:57You are an Isaiar-
36:58You are an Isaiar-
36:59!
36:59Why are yfanaths that do ran?!
37:02What are you talking about in my image?
37:04They're all looking at me.
37:06Go, go, go, go, go!
37:39I'm joined right now by advocate Lee Noshi.
37:44She's representing these two girls.
37:46There is an FIR.
37:47It's a bailable offence.
37:49So the couple have not been arrested.
37:52And appreciate you joining us, ma'am,
37:55and taking their case pro bono.
37:57The kind of abuse
37:58that was racially targeting
38:01these two young girls.
38:02Young women is stunning.
38:04But you yourself know
38:06it's not an isolated incident.
38:08Many of these young girls from the Northeast
38:10continue to face this kind of harassment.
38:15Piti, if I may a little divert from this
38:18and I'll tell you.
38:19Like, I was also part of
38:20in the Nido Tania things take place, right?
38:23This is not isolation, we all know.
38:26This is also not the first time happening.
38:28Nido Tania is 12 years old.
38:31During that time, we could see that
38:34if you go and remember,
38:35maybe your news have also covered.
38:37There are a lot of news come up on,
38:38you know, racially abusive languages,
38:43racial remark passed,
38:45somebody's life had gone out of their way.
38:47I myself was, you know,
38:49attacked in the courtroom by lawyers
38:52where I went and fight for four years
38:54in the court, but nothing happened.
38:56So what I'm saying is,
38:57this is not isolation.
38:58It has been there always.
39:00Yes, because we are humanly, like also,
39:03it's, I see ourselves,
39:04we're too racially, like divided in many ways.
39:08And I don't know what would be the reason
39:10that most of the Indian,
39:12I'm no less Indian than,
39:14we are no less Indian than anybody,
39:16see us as people who don't belong to this country.
39:21This is the only way and the demeaning way
39:24they have used to abuse these girls.
39:27I do not understand, like,
39:31I don't know much about the accused,
39:33but I come to know they are educated people,
39:36you know, who earned some degree,
39:39who went to school.
39:41They still have to use these words,
39:43which they have used.
39:44I don't know even saying on my own words.
39:47So, what is parlor massage thing?
39:51You know, how, where is this coming from?
39:53Is not that other part of the world
39:55has parlor massage,
39:57and is it not that they are going to it?
39:59And is it that only people working from certain area,
40:03you know, into this?
40:04And even if into this, what is the problem?
40:06There are so many people.
40:08Different part of the world do different businesses, right?
40:11Rest of the Marwari and Gujarati
40:13do the best of the businesses.
40:15Baniyas are doing their own.
40:16We don't call them Kiranawalas.
40:22Ms. Nushi, you know, would you stay on with me,
40:24and would you please take this apology
40:25from most people who are watching this coverage today,
40:28and please extend it to those two young girls,
40:3020 and 21-year-old, and say we are with them,
40:33and we are deeply, deeply sorry
40:34for what they had to go through
40:36with some people who have given a bad name to our country
40:40and continue to do so by insulting their own countrymen.
40:44Would you please do so?
40:45And do stay on with me.
40:47I'm joined by Suhas Chakma,
40:48Director, Rights and Risk Analysis Group.
40:51I also have with me Dr. Alana Golmay,
40:54General Secretary,
40:55North East Support Centre and Helpline.
40:58Dr. Golmay, this is not the first.
41:01It's something which is recurrent,
41:03where you have, you know, our country,
41:07men, women coming in from the North East,
41:09constantly harassed, racially abused,
41:11and it's become a part of society.
41:14You have people doing it on a daily basis
41:16and getting away with it.
41:20Priti, this, yes, you are so right in pointing out that this is not the first incident.
41:26This has been happening from day one.
41:29I have been saying that there is a stereotyping of the North East women,
41:33that if you are a North East woman,
41:36women, and then you give a smile,
41:39because we are hospitable people,
41:40and the smile is not taken in the right way.
41:43So, even if you are an IS officer,
41:45you are a top-notch officer,
41:47you know, how they look at us is completely from a different angle.
41:51This is how they look at us.
41:52They Google at us.
41:54That is the reason why even the first word is that,
41:57even if that person is working in a dignified institutions or reputed professions,
42:03you know, they will just look at us as if we are working in here,
42:06massage parlor, beauty parlor, this sector, that sector.
42:09So, this is actually just what they are stereotyping us.
42:12That is the reason why, first thing, this is massage parlor.
42:16What's got to do with massage parlor?
42:19And then this, you see, if I may take you back to the COVID-19.
42:23Now, the FIR Lodge is word intended to insult a woman's modesty.
42:27This is section under 79 BNS they have registered.
42:30The same thing happened earlier, it was 509.
42:32The 509 of IPC, when the woman from the Northeast was spat on,
42:38and she was called Corona.
42:40So, that time, all the paan, gutka, whatever went into her.
42:44So, during that time, most of the same IPC was invoked.
42:46What action has been taken?
42:48Till today the case is going on.
42:50And I am representing that woman right now.
42:53What has been done?
42:54So, they are taking it very lightly.
42:56Now, Angel Subma's case, for example.
42:58They are saying that now there is no racial angle.
43:00And I am sure here also they will definitely say that there is no racial angle.
43:03Why it is so difficult for our country, for the concerned authorities to admit that something is wrong in this
43:11country.
43:12That there is racially motivated crimes.
43:15See, if we are advocating for this because I love my country.
43:19If we do not want to promote unity, if we are not for nation building, whoever it may be, we
43:24will not be talking about it.
43:26You're right.
43:26If I am advocating, if I am doing something, it is for the country.
43:30It is for the good of the nation.
43:31If we stop talking, that means we don't care anything anymore, whatever is happening in this country.
43:36You know, I want to just bring in Suhaj Shakma into this conversation as well.
43:41And you're right, ma'am.
43:41You know, I just want to also put out there that these two young girls had come to the national
43:45capitals to study for UPSC.
43:46Even if they were working in massage parlors, what is the big deal? How dare anyone stereotype?
43:52Suhaj Shakma, how can we strengthen then the law to now fiercely protect, like girls like this, who today are
43:59in trauma?
44:00Both these girls have decided to go back.
44:04It's for the government of India to take a decision that they need to recognize the existence of various types
44:11of people in this country.
44:12And of course, there are racial discrimination.
44:14And those who come from the Northeast India because of their Tibetan Mongoloid features, they face this kind of acts
44:22of violence and racial discrimination.
44:24We have to bear in mind that, you know, even if you talk about caste system, caste was originally based
44:31on Barna, and Barna was about color.
44:33So, you know, I mean, it's ingrained in our societies, in our civilization values, or not necessarily civilization values in
44:43the right sense.
44:44But if the government doesn't recognize that, you know, people are being discriminated based on their physical features because of
44:51their ethnic origin, then you cannot move ahead.
44:54And I think the biggest problem which you are facing is that this country, despite, you know, fighting racial discrimination
45:01all over the world, whether it's against apartheid regime in South Africa or anywhere else, you know, India has been
45:09at the forefront of fighting against racial discrimination.
45:12But when it comes to racial discrimination inside the country, the government is reluctant even to recognize that there are
45:20this kind of discrimination.
45:22So unless you bring a specific separate law to deal with racial discrimination, this kind of incidents will constantly take
45:30place, will be outraged.
45:32Then again, we are back to a square one. Now, if we look at, as I always say, the government
45:37of the district, look at the Dowry Prevention Act.
45:40You know, once the Dowry Prevention Act was brought in, it at least led to some reduction in the dowry
45:45debts.
45:46Otherwise, when I came to Delhi, everything in the newspapers was full of, you know, dowry incidents.
45:51Today, people know that they can go back to the police and you have to bring some stringent provisions like,
45:56you know, making it non-bailable and et cetera.
45:58And if the law is enacted, I think it's very easy to deal with. I mean, it's a question of
46:02political will.
46:04Right. Political will. I appreciate, you know, I'm terribly short of time.
46:06We also had a chunk of a short interview with Mr. Conrad Sangma, who is the Chief Minister of Meghalaya,
46:12who's once again stood up for these young girls.
46:15But it is abysmal. It's sad. And we are so, so sorry to these two young girls. Both of them
46:20have decided to go back.
46:22I really hope they decide not to and stay back. It's a story that we'll be tracking closely.
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