- 20 minutes ago
A debate examines the controversy surrounding the Indian government's 'Sanchar Saathi' mobile application, which has been mandated for pre-installation on all new smartphones. The government projects the app as a crucial cybersecurity tool designed to help citizens track lost phones and prevent telecom fraud. However, the directive has triggered significant debate, with privacy advocates and opposition parties raising concerns about potential surveillance, data privacy violations, and the constitutional validity of such a mandate.
The programme also highlights a new report from the Centre for Science and Environment (CSE), which identifies vehicular emissions as the primary cause of Delhi’s severe air pollution this winter—shifting the spotlight away from stubble burning. Additionally, the broadcast covers key national crime updates, including the arrest of JKLF's Shafaat Ahmed Shanglu in the 35-year-old Rubaiya Saeed kidnapping case and the mob lynching of para-powerlifter Rohit Dhankhar in Haryana.
The programme also highlights a new report from the Centre for Science and Environment (CSE), which identifies vehicular emissions as the primary cause of Delhi’s severe air pollution this winter—shifting the spotlight away from stubble burning. Additionally, the broadcast covers key national crime updates, including the arrest of JKLF's Shafaat Ahmed Shanglu in the 35-year-old Rubaiya Saeed kidnapping case and the mob lynching of para-powerlifter Rohit Dhankhar in Haryana.
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NewsTranscript
00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today. This is your prime time destination
00:07news, newsmakers, talking points, our big talking point tonight. Sanchar Saathi, the new app of the
00:15government. Is it really going to promote cyber security as it claims or as the opposition argues
00:22it is another snooping tool for the government. Surveillance fear, real or imagined. That's
00:30going to be our top talking point. Also tonight, Sunita Narayan, the country's leading environmentalist
00:35joins us on our continuing focus on the air emergency across the country. But first, as
00:42always, it's time for the nine headlines at nine. Parliament logjam over the SIR likely
00:50to end soon. Centre and opposition reach a deal. We'll now debate electoral reforms and
00:57vande matram in the Lok Sabha and Rajya Sabha next week for 10 hours each.
01:01After opposition raises concerns on over the Sanchar Saathi app, telecom minister Jyotiradyatya
01:14is forced to clarify, says registration not mandatory, app can be deleted. Reports say Apple could oppose
01:23the government order citing right to privacy.
01:31Modi government to rename the new prime minister's complex, office complex to Seva Teer. Congress
01:39calls the renaming another distraction.
01:45DKS Shiv Kumar hosts Siddharamaya for round two of their breakfast dialogue. Both leaders
01:51call each other brother. Siddharamaya says DKS will become chief minister when the top brass makes him that.
01:58One of Air India's aircraft found to have flown multiple times without airworthiness certification. Air India launches a probe, official suspended.
02:15Courtroom embarrassment for the CBI. Man arrested in 1989's Rubaiya Saeed kidnapping case released instantly by the court. Suspect Shafkat denies any link to the case or Yaseen Malik.
02:27Bishnoyi gang members kill their own in Chandigarh. Deadly gang shootout caught on camp. Bishnoyi gang calls slain gang member a traitor.
02:40Pakistan government buckles under pressure and allows Imran Khan's sister to meet the former prime minister in jail.
02:47Sister Uzma claims brother Imran is being mentally tortured and kept in solitary confinement. Blames General Munir for the mess.
02:56Ranveer Singh, the actor apologizes after outrage over his Kantara mimicry. He has only wanted to highlight Vishab Shetty's performance. Never meant to hurt sentiments.
03:09But let's turn to the story that's breaking this evening after a day of confrontation yesterday.
03:25Today, the parliament logjam appears set to end in the winter session.
03:30Sources telling India today that the government and the opposition have now reached a final agreement by which discussion will take place next week in the Lok Sabha on Vande Matram on Monday and then on electoral reforms on Tuesday.
03:44The Rajya Sabha is also expected to debate both issues next week.
03:50Joining me now, Aishwarya Paliwal joins me with the very latest.
03:53Aishwarya, it seems that unlike in the previous session where there was a logjam almost right through,
03:59this time both sides have met each other halfway.
04:03We will have electoral reforms being discussed and we will have Vande Matram which the government wants to discuss.
04:09Right Rajdeep, you know, we have seen how the government since Devan was saying that whatever the opposition has been asking for, it has not been rejected completely.
04:18In fact, the parliamentary affairs minister, Kiran Rijiju, time and again at least over the course of the last 72 hours at different points said that you just need to give us time.
04:26And also, your demand that only SIR should be discussed is something that the government at the moment is not looking at.
04:32And that's the reason why we are seeing the electoral reforms, the larger thing, that's what the government wants a discussion on.
04:3810 hours in Lok Sabha have now been given.
04:40Monday very, very crucial because we understand there is a possibility that the prime minister could be speaking on Monday.
04:45And then we will see how the electoral reform debate will take place on Tuesday.
04:49In the Rajya Sabha, we will have a schedule maybe in the next two days on when the discussion will take place on both these sides.
04:55The opposition was very, very clear. If you do not want to discuss SIR, discuss electoral rolls, the Congress, the TNC, the Samajwadhi Party, all of them are saying that we want to bring forth some of the points on the floor of the parliament.
05:07So, this is an opportunity for the opposition to speak what they wanted to speak with regards to SIR.
05:12Parsi.
05:13Aishwarya Paliwal bringing us that piece of news. I appreciate you joining us now.
05:18Typically, there are other issues which, of course, are troubling parliament and indeed many citizens.
05:24The latest flashpoint between the government and the opposition is over an app, Sanchar Sati.
05:31An app which the government order yesterday said would have to be preloaded on every mobile phone now acquired in India.
05:41The government says this was critical to ensure complete cyber security.
05:45The opposition hit back saying that this app preloaded would lead to snooping and was another example of what they call Pegasus 2.0.
05:57Today, the telecom minister Jyothi Raditya Sindhya clarified that this app can be disabled and deleted by a user and therefore is not mandatory in that sense.
06:11Either way, it has sparked off a fierce debate.
06:14Are apps that the government insists must be used also an opportunity for the government to get personal data and violate the right to privacy?
06:25That's going to be the crucial debate we'll have today.
06:28But first, take a look at the story.
06:32Get ready. Your smartphone is about to get a new companion, the Sanchar Sati app.
06:38The Indian government has directed all phone makers in India to pre-install this app on every new device sold.
06:47Companies are also urged to push the app to older phones through software updates.
06:51As per the government's directive, phone companies must ensure the app is pre-installed, easily visible and accessible from the very first moment you turn on your device.
07:04The mobile manufacturers must ensure the app's functionalities are not disabled or restricted.
07:09And there's a tight deadline. 90 days for installation with a compliance report due in 120 days from giants like Apple, Samsung and Vivo.
07:21Reuters citing sources in Apple said that Apple will not bow to the diktat and will not pre-load its phones with the app.
07:28Apple is said to be planning to convey its concerns directly to New Delhi.
07:32The government says that this is about protecting users from telecom fraud, duplicate IMEIs and cyber threats.
07:42According to the government, the Sanchar Sati app allows users to block lost or stolen phones,
07:48verify if a device is genuine and also see all mobile numbers linked to their ID.
07:53But there's a catch. The app requires access to camera, call logs, phone status, SMS and notifications, sparking privacy concerns.
08:08Congress and allies slammed the move, calling it a potential snooping tool and warning it could compromise citizens' privacy.
08:15It's a very fine line between fraud is easy to report and we can see everything that every citizen of India is doing on their phone.
08:24So that's not how it should work.
08:26There should be an effective system to report fraud and we've discussed this at great lengths on cyber security and this and that.
08:35And definitely there's a need for cyber security, but that doesn't mean that it gives you an excuse to go into every citizen's telephone.
08:41The government clarified that the app can be uninstalled.
08:47Communications Minister Jyotir Aditya Sindhya assured users there's no compulsion to keep it.
08:53There's no mandatory. If you don't want to register, if you don't want to register this app, then don't register.
09:01Don't register. It will remain dormant. If you want to delete it, then delete it.
09:05So the question remains, is Sanchar Saathi a smart security buddy or a digital watchdog?
09:28Bureau Report, India Today.
09:39Okay, joining me now, before that, are the big questions I want to pose.
09:43The Sanchar Saathi diktat of the government.
09:47Is it a violation of privacy or not?
09:50Is this app going to be a cyber shield for, against cyber crimes as the government claims?
10:00Or will it become a snooping tool?
10:03Is this surveillance sphere real or imagined?
10:07Questions that we'll raise about your and my right to privacy.
10:11My first guest is Shashi Shekar Vempati.
10:14He's been former CEO at Prasar Bharti.
10:16He's now co-founder of Deep Tech for Bharat.
10:20Does a lot of work on AI.
10:22Appreciate your joining us, Shashi Shekar.
10:25Tell me, Shashi, at the moment, there are two big questions.
10:29Do you accept or do you believe, as is being suggested,
10:32that this Sanchar Saathi app is essentially going to be used to snoop on people as the opposition claims?
10:39Or do you believe that's an exaggerated fear, a misplaced fear,
10:43that this app will not be used for snooping, but for greater cyber security?
10:48Yeah, I think that's clearly unfounded and exaggerated concerns.
10:56If you look at the massive amount of fraud that's happening, digital fraud,
11:01using mobile phones, WhatsApp profiles to trap people, do so-called digital arrest and so on,
11:11I think the situation called for an intervention.
11:15And I think the government has taken a meaningful step in popularizing this app.
11:19If you look at the Sanchar Saathi website, I think they have made public the statistics so far,
11:25staggering numbers in terms of, you know, the number of phones fraudulently,
11:30the SIM cards that have been blocked, the number of stolen phones that have been found.
11:35So in that sense, I think there is a public interest app.
11:38And I think the government encouraging the phone manufacturers to pre-install it,
11:43I think is a very positive move.
11:45And I think the minister has also made it clear that, you know,
11:48you can take it out if you don't want it.
11:49You know, with due regard, Mr. Vempathi,
11:52when I go through the government order that was put out yesterday,
11:55it made it very clear that every mobile phone manufacturer would have to pre-load this app.
12:01So the concern is the moment you pre-load the app,
12:05could the government have access to your data?
12:08Will it lead to mass surveillance?
12:11Should not the user have the right to install or uninstall an app?
12:16Why should the government decide which app is to be used?
12:21Yeah, I think that's, you know, clearly an overblown concern
12:26because the permissions of the app definitely don't entail any of,
12:30you know, those kinds of surveillance access that, you know, people are imagining it.
12:35The other thing that, you know, many of us don't pay attention to
12:38is every commercial phone that we buy, be it from Apple, Google,
12:42or, you know, any of the whole host of Chinese manufacturers.
12:46They all come with pre-installed phones, apps with all sorts of, you know, pre-installed apps.
12:50And some of those apps can't even be removed.
12:53So in that sense, I think, you know, while we very unwittingly have adopted all of those apps,
13:01I think when the government has taken a progressive step
13:04to create awareness about cybersecurity and cyber fraud,
13:08especially because mobile phones today in India are being used heavily
13:12for payments through UPI, for, you know, Aadhaar verification and so on,
13:18I think it's all the more important to create this awareness.
13:21And if someone doesn't want the app, they can take it off their phones.
13:25But by making it pre-installed, you're lowering the barrier to adoption, right?
13:29Otherwise, most of the time, we're not even aware of what avenues are there
13:33for grievance, redressal, or for, you know, filing cyber complaints and so on.
13:39I think this kind of lowers that barrier,
13:41makes it easily accessible to a lot of people.
13:43So are you saying that it cannot normalize surveillance
13:46in the name of cybersecurity,
13:49that it will not become a government tracker of your smartphones,
13:54it cannot be used to implant files on your device,
13:57and the concern that the government could access personal data on your device,
14:02are you telling me all these concerns are misplaced, exaggerated?
14:05Absolutely, and I think, you know,
14:11as far as any legitimate law enforcement access is concerned,
14:15I think the government, I'm sure, has enough tools to do that,
14:19where, you know, the law permits it.
14:21I don't think this is that avenue for that.
14:23I think this needs to be looked at from the point of view of creating awareness.
14:27Just look at the numbers, right?
14:28I was looking at some very staggering numbers recently shared on just in Bangalore City,
14:33Bangalore City, which is perhaps the most tech-savvy city,
14:37hundreds of crores of rupees lost to digital fraud,
14:40which speaks very poorly of the average cyber awareness,
14:44even within the class of people who are supposed to be tech-savvy,
14:49where you probably have the highest penetration of, you know, digital services, right?
14:54So, it's a serious problem.
14:55I think we should give it the merit, you know, the attention it merits,
15:00rather than, you know, hyping up, you know,
15:02this whole concern around surveillance, which clearly is over.
15:05Well, one final question, Shashi Hekar.
15:09Shouldn't the government have publicized this initiative first
15:11before you put out directives directly to phone manufacturers?
15:17It leads to confusions.
15:19Many of the concerns could have been avoided
15:20if the government was more transparent.
15:22Shashi Hekar, in fact, if you look at the prime minister in his monkey bath,
15:30has created awareness on digital arrest more than once.
15:36So, in that sense, I think clearly there is a need to do more and more of this.
15:41The PM has already done it from his end in monkey bath.
15:44Perhaps the telecom ministry has to, you know, create more awareness,
15:47maybe through mass media, through print and so on.
15:50But as far as, you know, dictate is concerned, I'm not aware of, you know,
15:54a hard dictate was issued.
15:55I understand it's more of an advisory.
15:57But nevertheless, I think nothing in India, you know,
16:01can ever be less of communication.
16:02I think we need to do more of communication,
16:04especially on issues of this nature,
16:06just because of the fact that even the most digital savvy individuals
16:12can very easily fall prey to, you know, these sorts of cyber frauds.
16:17Okay, let me widen this debate at this moment.
16:20Joining me now, Brijay Singh, Principal Secretary Government of Maharashtra,
16:24someone who's been an advocate for cyber security,
16:27Apar Gupta, lawyer and founder, Internet Freedom,
16:30NS Nabi Nai, advocate at the Supreme Court.
16:33I appreciate all three of you joining us.
16:36You've just heard Apar Gupta, what Shashi Yekar Vempathi has to say.
16:42He said the fears are exaggerated.
16:44Now, you've been among those who've raised this issue of privacy.
16:47Can you tell me whether you believe the fact that the minister is also now saying
16:52that the app can be uninstalled?
16:54He's even seemingly suggesting it's not mandatory.
16:58How do you respond to that?
17:00Do you believe this is backtracking or do you believe that
17:02the fears were exaggerated in the first instance?
17:07Thank you so much, Rajdeep, for having me on your show and this debate.
17:10I think all of us will benefit from a higher level of clarity
17:15if the government itself discloses the full text of the direction
17:19which is now being carried by several people on Twitter.
17:23So, unfortunately, even till now,
17:25the Department of Telecommunications has not officially released
17:30the full text of the directions which have been issued
17:33to phone manufacturers under the Cybersecurity Telecom Rules of 2024.
17:39This is dated, as per my information, November 21st, 2025.
17:44So, it's been some days since this direction has been issued.
17:47Now, secondly, I think so, given this lack of transparency,
17:51this secrecy which is there, what we are going by
17:54are off-the-record comments and ministerial statements.
17:58But what will actually have force and will require compliance
18:02will be the text of this direction.
18:04And here it becomes important also to go back to the Reuters report
18:08which is also quoting and has sources from the Department of Telecom.
18:13Its explainer today actually says
18:15that not only will this be rolled out for devices which are manufactured
18:19and I'm quoting Knight now from their article.
18:22An industry source with direct knowledge of the situation
18:25said software updates would eventually roll out to the app
18:28to existing phone users,
18:30meaning it could reach more than 735 million people.
18:34And it also says that
18:36the manufacturers must ensure that users cannot disable
18:40or restrict the app's features.
18:42Now, this is why I think so.
18:44There needs to be transparency.
18:46There needs to be a public disclosure of the full text of this notification.
18:51Secondly, when we come to the actual substance of these fears,
18:55let's take a step back.
18:57This is the government requiring your smartphone
18:59to have an app pre-installed
19:02by the use of a regulatory power.
19:05How it has exercised this regulatory power
19:08is admittedly not there in the public domain.
19:11Now, what is the issue is that
19:13the app may be updated over a period of time.
19:15Its functionality may be changed over a period of time.
19:18We do not know under which law is it clearly doing it.
19:22What are the features of the application?
19:24And it has been a direct communication
19:26between the government and a device manufacturer
19:28or a large Silicon Valley corporation.
19:31This is why people are agitated.
19:33This is why there is a legitimate question
19:35which is being posed.
19:37Is my privacy being compromised
19:38even if the app may not gather my photos,
19:42my videos and my texts today
19:44and scan my smartphone today,
19:46will there be any law preventing
19:48that it cannot do so in future?
19:51Okay, let me bring in Prajesh Singh.
19:53Because Prajesh,
19:54I have what appears to be the text of the order.
19:58Section 7 seems to make it very clear
20:01that this is a directive
20:02which effectively means
20:04that you will have to preload this app.
20:08There is some confusion over
20:10whether you can uninstall it.
20:11The minister says you can uninstall it.
20:13But either way,
20:14the lack of clarity means
20:16that there is a sense
20:17that people have of a fear
20:18or those at least privacy advocates
20:21that it can violate privacy.
20:22Do you believe those are fears
20:24that should have been addressed
20:25more conclusively
20:26before a directive is issued?
20:29Radheep,
20:31you know,
20:31imagine malice is a bad faith argument.
20:34So,
20:34if you imagine malice,
20:35you should give proof for that.
20:38And,
20:38in fact,
20:39one should be thankful to the government
20:40that it is addressing a problem head on.
20:44And for concerns,
20:46let me say that government itself
20:47is also bound by
20:48the Personal Data Protection Act
20:50which requires data minimization
20:52and justification
20:53for what you are collecting data for
20:55and so on and so forth.
20:57Now,
20:57if you look at the app functionalities,
20:59first of all,
21:00it's not compulsory for you to use.
21:02It would come pre-installed
21:03on your phone
21:04and it's going to do various things.
21:07It's going to allow you
21:08to block lost of stolen mobile.
21:10It's going to allow
21:11how many other SIM connections
21:12are there on your name.
21:14It's going to allow you
21:15to verify,
21:16you know,
21:16device authenticity
21:17and it's going to allow you
21:19to report fraud in real time.
21:20Today,
21:21the problem is
21:21that you are not able
21:23to report fraud in real time
21:25and that's why
21:25you have all this digital
21:27arrest to other scams
21:28and there are,
21:29you know,
21:29crores and thousand crores
21:31of rupees are lost
21:32from innocent citizens.
21:34So,
21:35I feel that
21:35it's a welcome step.
21:37It's like an antivirus,
21:39right?
21:39If you don't want to use it,
21:40you can simply delete the app
21:42or not activate it.
21:43If you don't activate it,
21:44it's not going to be activated.
21:46Secondly,
21:47it has very limited functionalities.
21:49In fact,
21:50after I got a call
21:51for this debate,
21:52I checked,
21:52I checked the permissions
21:53of the app.
21:54It's very limited functionalities
21:55and taking very limited information.
21:58Secondly,
21:58in a democracy,
21:59a government functions on trust
22:00and if there is a requirement
22:03for any information,
22:04there is a procedure
22:06mandated by law
22:07where there is proportionality,
22:09necessity
22:10and transparency
22:10and there's a due process of law.
22:12You know that,
22:13with due regard,
22:14sir,
22:14with due regard
22:15on your last point of trust,
22:16you see,
22:17as we've seen in the past,
22:18there is a fear
22:19that government
22:20does play the role
22:21of big brother.
22:22There was snooping
22:22during Pegasus.
22:24The government
22:25may have denied it
22:26but there was enough evidence
22:27and more to suggest
22:28it had happened.
22:29So,
22:29trust has to be
22:30on both sides,
22:31right?
22:32Government has to earn
22:33the trust
22:34of citizens
22:35if there are previous
22:36and across the world.
22:37This is not just
22:37an Indian problem
22:38but it's magnified in India
22:39because there is a lack
22:40of transparency.
22:42That's why I come.
22:42When directives
22:43like this are issued,
22:44there should be
22:45greater clarity,
22:46Brajeshji.
22:47Brajeshji,
22:48you know,
22:49in fact,
22:50I handle the Department
22:51of Information
22:52and Public Relations
22:52and last one month
22:54I have had many visits
22:55from Telecom Department
22:56who has been wanting
22:57to promote Sanchar Sati
22:58and,
22:59you know,
23:00tell people
23:01about its functionality.
23:03So,
23:03I've had people
23:03visiting from
23:04that department
23:05asking this information
23:07to be given
23:07in local language
23:08to people of Maharashtra.
23:10So,
23:10there have been
23:11efforts from the government.
23:12I agree that
23:14there can be
23:14more transparency,
23:15there can be
23:16more information
23:17which can be given
23:18but there have been
23:19very clear efforts
23:19from the Telecom Department
23:21to give information
23:22to people.
23:23You know,
23:24N.S.,
23:24Nappi Nai,
23:26you're an advocate
23:27Supreme Court.
23:28An interesting argument
23:29is made that
23:29when we install
23:31foreign apps,
23:32whether they are Chinese,
23:33whether they are U.S. apps,
23:35there is no outrage
23:36but the moment
23:37an Indian government app
23:39is preloaded
23:40on your mobile phone,
23:43there is a sense
23:43that something
23:44could go dreadfully wrong.
23:46Are we misjudging,
23:47mistrusting
23:48the government
23:49way too much?
23:50Why not?
23:51There are those
23:51who are using
23:52the Sanchar Sathi app
23:53who have said
23:54it's very useful
23:55in terms of detecting
23:56potential cyber fraud
23:58or indeed
23:59recovering your phones.
24:03Rajdeep,
24:03it's very interesting
24:04to listen to
24:05all the hyper-simplistic
24:07arguments
24:08that are being put forth.
24:09First and foremost,
24:11when we are talking
24:12about apps
24:13from corporate entities,
24:15that is clearly
24:16on a different footing
24:17from a government app.
24:19You can move
24:20codes for antitrust,
24:22you can delete
24:23those apps,
24:24you can ask
24:24for remedies
24:27in terms of
24:28corporate surveillance,
24:29etc.
24:30But what we are
24:31talking about here
24:32is not about
24:33statutory rights,
24:34we are talking about
24:35fundamental rights
24:36and that is something
24:38that a government
24:39cannot violate.
24:42Period.
24:43The government
24:44is not on par
24:45with the corporate
24:46entities,
24:47they stand on
24:48a different footing
24:49including with
24:50respect to the
24:51responsibility
24:52to the citizens
24:53of India
24:54and that is that
24:55they will not
24:56violate our
24:56fundamental rights.
24:58Is there a possibility
24:59therefore when a
25:00corporate preloads
25:02an app,
25:03you are saying
25:03the right to privacy
25:04is not violated
25:05but when the government
25:06does so,
25:07it is a fundamental
25:08violation of your
25:08right to privacy?
25:10No,
25:11I'm not misreading it.
25:13What I said is
25:13there may be
25:14corporate surveillance
25:15but we are not really,
25:16you can't equate
25:16corporate surveillance
25:17with government surveillance
25:18and let me complete
25:19what the point
25:20I was trying to make
25:21Rajdeep is this,
25:23don't equate
25:24the sensibility
25:25or the capability
25:27of Sanchar Sati
25:28with forcing it
25:30down our throat.
25:31The question here
25:32is not about
25:33what Sanchar Sati
25:34can or cannot do,
25:36the question is
25:37about whether
25:37it can be
25:38pre-installed
25:39and that too
25:40based on a
25:41mandatory direction
25:42from the government
25:43saying it must be done.
25:45There is no logic
25:47to it,
25:47there is no legal
25:48basis to it
25:49and it cannot be
25:50constitutionally
25:52sustained.
25:52That's the point
25:53I'm making
25:54and I don't think
25:55we should digress
25:56from this criticality
25:57given all the inputs
25:59that I have heard
26:00right now
26:00on your show.
26:01it's really strange
26:03that somebody
26:04would say
26:05oh you have
26:06the right
26:06to uninstall it
26:07but why should
26:09I be forced
26:10to have it installed
26:11in the first instance
26:12and we are all
26:13talking about
26:14a pre-installation
26:15in a new
26:16mobile phone.
26:17Let's also take
26:18the second instance
26:19which is that
26:21you are expected
26:22that a software update
26:24will also push
26:25it onto your phone.
26:26So effectively
26:27what the directive
26:28says is
26:28I must accept
26:30a software update
26:31or run the risk
26:33of breaches
26:33or vulnerabilities
26:34on my phone
26:35and I first
26:37accept the app
26:39and then I'm
26:40entitled to
26:40uninstall it.
26:42Why would I be
26:42forced to do that?
26:44It is my right
26:45of choice
26:45that I'm talking
26:46about and I
26:47as a citizen
26:48have the right
26:49to decide
26:50what I want
26:51on my private
26:52device or not.
26:54I take your point
26:55ma'am.
26:55I think that's
26:56the fundamental
26:56that needs to be
26:58made your point.
26:59Do you believe
27:00Rajesh Singh
27:01that there is
27:01an argument
27:02of an individual's
27:04right to privacy
27:05here is being
27:05violated?
27:06The fundamental
27:07argument is coming
27:08a right to privacy
27:09which has been
27:09acknowledged now
27:10by the Supreme
27:11Court no less
27:12could be violated
27:13potentially could
27:14be violated.
27:15We are looking
27:16at a worst
27:16case scenario.
27:17Yes there are
27:18benefits of the
27:19app obviously
27:20but there are
27:21fears as well.
27:23Rajdeep ji
27:24I feel that
27:25first of all
27:26as I said
27:28imagine malice
27:29is a bad
27:30faith argument.
27:31So you need
27:32to prove
27:32that there is
27:33a possibility
27:34for this.
27:34We cannot
27:35just say
27:35so let us
27:36technically
27:36and see
27:37let's say
27:38you can
27:38sandbox the
27:38app
27:39find out
27:39what data
27:40it is sending
27:41or not.
27:42Apart from
27:42that
27:43this is like
27:44an anti-vaccination
27:46argument.
27:47When there
27:48are dire
27:48situations
27:49you need
27:49to come
27:49up with
27:50solutions
27:51like this.
27:52For example
27:53the mass
27:54vaccination
27:54and same
27:56kind of
27:56arguments
27:56were put
27:57forward.
27:57Today
27:58cyber crime
27:58has become
27:59thrice the
28:00Indian GDP.
28:02It's 10.7
28:03trillion dollars
28:03which is thrice
28:04the Indian
28:04GDP across
28:06the world
28:06and at this
28:07time dire
28:08measures are
28:08needed and I
28:09think this is
28:10a welcome
28:10step.
28:12You know
28:12Apar Gupta
28:13when you look
28:14at the numbers
28:15that the
28:15government is
28:16throwing up
28:16the government
28:16says that
28:17already this
28:18app has had
28:19a huge
28:20difference in
28:21enabling the
28:22government in
28:22its war to
28:23ensure against
28:25cyber crime.
28:27They've thrown
28:27up numbers
28:28saying that
28:28since the
28:30app was
28:31launched in
28:31January 2025
28:32it has
28:33recovered more
28:34than 700,000
28:36lost phones.
28:38More than
28:38over 20
28:40crore people
28:40have used
28:41the portal.
28:42About 1.4
28:43crore people
28:43have downloaded
28:44the app.
28:46How do you
28:47respond to
28:47those who are
28:48saying that
28:48the app so
28:49far has
28:50shown that
28:51has shown
28:54results according
28:55to the
28:55government?
28:58So the
28:59first thing
28:59we should
29:00recognize is
29:01that those
29:01numbers are
29:02not only due
29:04to the app
29:05but also due
29:06to the
29:06website.
29:07Sanchar
29:07Sati exists
29:09primarily as
29:10a website so
29:11it does not
29:12even need to
29:12be installed
29:13on your
29:14smartphone for
29:15you to report
29:15the loss of
29:16a mobile or
29:18to just
29:19avail the
29:20other features
29:22which are
29:22present within
29:23it.
29:23As an app
29:24also if
29:25these numbers
29:25exist then
29:27it points as
29:28to a high
29:29level of
29:29adoption and
29:30confidence amongst
29:31Indians thereby
29:32not requiring
29:33this level of
29:34coercion.
29:35Now the
29:35stated aim
29:36which is of
29:37curbing and
29:37improving telecom
29:38security according
29:39to me is on
29:40its face a
29:41legitimate state
29:42aim.
29:42Nobody is
29:43querilling against.
29:44It's the
29:45coercion which is
29:46being placed on
29:47people and
29:48the installation
29:49of this
29:50application which
29:51is being
29:51mandatorily enforced
29:52on our private
29:53smartphone devices.
29:55No so you're
29:55not accepting what
29:57Jyoti Raditya
29:58Sindhya said.
29:59I quote him
29:59again if you
30:00don't want
30:01Sanchar Sati you
30:02can delete it.
30:03It is optional.
30:04It is our duty to
30:05introduce this app
30:06to everyone.
30:07Keeping it in
30:08their devices or
30:08not is up to
30:09the user.
30:11Mr. Sindhya or
30:12any other public
30:13officials public
30:14statements need to
30:15match the legal
30:16text of an
30:17order which has
30:17not yet been
30:18transparently made
30:19available.
30:20This is not about
30:21trusting the
30:21government.
30:22We can trust the
30:23government once we
30:24have the black
30:26ink which is
30:27directing this
30:28installation to
30:30telecom manufacturers
30:31to be made
30:31public.
30:32Why is this not
30:33being disclosed to
30:34us clearly
30:35Rajdeep?
30:35Even the piece of
30:37paper which is in
30:37front of you and
30:38you read from you
30:39source that on the
30:41basis of somebody
30:42circulating it.
30:43It's not the
30:44government's proactive
30:45disclosure.
30:46So how is Mr.
30:47Sindhya's statement
30:48matching this
30:49direction?
30:51You know, there
30:54is obviously
30:55therefore some
30:55concerns but in
30:57conclusion, NS
30:58Namin, I do
30:59believe therefore
31:00that if this app
31:02is installed, you
31:03are convinced that
31:05the act itself of
31:07preloading the app
31:08by the government
31:08is unconstitutional.
31:10Am I correct?
31:11And a violation of
31:12the right to
31:12privacy.
31:14Irrespective of its
31:15benefits?
31:15Absolutely right.
31:18Absolutely right.
31:19I think the
31:20government should
31:21look at a more
31:22benevolent or an
31:24easier way of
31:25ensuring that there
31:27is awareness about
31:28this facility which
31:29users can avail of
31:30if they believe that
31:32they need it.
31:33Two, install
31:34something without
31:35clarity in terms of
31:37the kind of data
31:39that's being
31:39collected, the kind
31:41of data that I'm
31:42being asked to be
31:43made to compromise
31:44on, considering
31:46that the state is
31:47also part of the
31:48Personal Data
31:49Protection Act and
31:50owes responsibilities
31:52to us and most
31:53importantly the
31:54proportionality of
31:56it.
31:56I fully understand
31:57and I'm conversant
31:59with the volume of
32:01time that is there
32:02and I'm sorry to
32:03say I don't agree
32:05with Rajeshji on
32:07what he talks about
32:08malice and the
32:09owners, etc.
32:10because the issue
32:12again is not about
32:13distrusting the
32:14government.
32:15The issue is about
32:16the very act of
32:17making something
32:18mandatory on a
32:20platform which is
32:21not that of the
32:22government but that
32:23of every individual.
32:24It's their private
32:25property which you're
32:26trying to intrude
32:27upon.
32:28Whatever may be your
32:29good intention is
32:30inappropriate.
32:32Find alternatives
32:33that are not
32:33intrusive and which
32:35are proportionate and
32:36they will be most
32:37welcome.
32:37You are responsible
32:38for protecting us
32:39against scams,
32:40etc.
32:41And we are sure
32:42you'll find better
32:43alternatives but
32:44please do try and
32:45let us not get
32:46carried away and
32:47forget the
32:48difference between
32:49protection and
32:50protectionism.
32:52This is clearly
32:52protection.
32:54That's an
32:54interesting argument
32:55the difference
32:56between protection
32:57and protectionism.
32:58Is the state
32:59playing big brother
33:00once again or are
33:03we unfairly
33:05questioning the
33:06motives of the
33:08state.
33:08Let's leave it
33:08there.
33:09I appreciate my
33:10guests joining us
33:11on a major issue
33:12of public concern
33:13and I want to turn
33:14from there to
33:15another issue of
33:17public concern which
33:18is the capital's
33:19pollution woes and
33:20indeed pollution woes
33:22across the country
33:23this winter that in
33:24several parts show no
33:25signs of easing.
33:27A latest analysis has
33:28shown that the
33:29national capital's
33:30toxic air is actually
33:32of its own making
33:33and cannot be
33:34attributed as it
33:35often is to
33:36stubble burning.
33:37A new analysis by
33:39India's leading
33:40environmental NGO
33:41the Centre for Science
33:42and Environment has
33:43revealed that the
33:44biggest contributions to
33:45Delhi's air pollution
33:46are vehicular emissions
33:48not stubble fires this
33:50year.
33:51The think tank's report
33:52highlights that despite
33:54farm fires being at a
33:55multi-year low the
33:56capital's air still
33:58remains in the very
33:59poor or even severe
34:01category.
34:01the level of fine
34:03pollutants has shown
34:04no improvement since
34:062022 indicating that
34:08pollution control
34:09measures being
34:10implemented by
34:11government agencies
34:12are not effective on
34:15the ground.
34:15Vehicular emissions in
34:17particular are the
34:18ones that are spiking
34:20and this spike is what
34:22is causing what is
34:23being described as a
34:25toxic cocktail.
34:27What does this really
34:28mean?
34:29Are we unfairly targeting
34:31the farmers for
34:32stubble burning is the
34:33real crisis vehicular
34:35emissions when it comes
34:36to pollution?
34:37Sunita Narayan,
34:38Director CSE, which
34:40is authored that
34:41report, joins me.
34:41Sunita, it's been
34:43widely believed even in
34:45the past that vehicular
34:46emissions account for
34:47about 40% of pollution.
34:49Are you saying that
34:49could be an even higher
34:50number and stubble
34:52burning was seen to
34:53account for about 17%?
34:55Is that even less if I
34:56were to put it in
34:57percentage terms?
34:58So Rajdeep, that's not
35:01the percentage.
35:02The fact is stubble
35:03burning was never on
35:04an average 17%.
35:06In this season?
35:08In this season?
35:09Yeah.
35:09In this season, it
35:11tips us over.
35:12And broadly, what we
35:14have understood, there
35:15are certain days of
35:16winter when in the
35:19past, when stubble
35:20burning could have
35:21contributed up to 25% to
35:2330%.
35:24And on an average, as
35:25you said, it could be
35:26up to 17% in this one
35:29month of stubble
35:31burning period.
35:32What we have found
35:33this year, and that
35:35should both worry us,
35:36but also it gives us a
35:38sense of there is one
35:39less thing to worry
35:41about, which is the
35:42farm fire, which we
35:44were not being able to
35:46combat, is that this
35:48year, the pollution
35:50from farm fires, partly
35:52also because, Rajdeep,
35:53as you know, Punjab
35:54has been under flood.
35:56There has been huge
35:58damage to the crop.
36:00And as a result of it,
36:01the farm fire, their
36:03contribution to Delhi,
36:04according to government's
36:06own data, we have only
36:07analysed the data from
36:09the Ministry of Earth
36:12Sciences.
36:13So this is not our data.
36:14Their own data shows
36:16that on an average, it
36:17has been less than 5%.
36:19And only on two days
36:22did it go up to about
36:2515%.
36:26The rest, but the worry
36:28part of it is that
36:30pollution remained very
36:31high.
36:32And you have done shows
36:34on it.
36:34We have suffered it.
36:35We cannot breathe in
36:37Delhi today.
36:38And the entire period,
36:40pollution has remained
36:41high.
36:41Now, this tells us that
36:44winter is bad, weather
36:45turns adverse, we
36:47know, the sources of
36:51pollution remain the
36:52same.
36:53And between vehicles,
36:55between industrial
36:56pollution, between waste
37:00burning, these are local
37:02sources, and we need to
37:04deal with them fast, at an
37:06emergency level, and at
37:08scale.
37:08The problem today is
37:10the lack of scale.
37:12It is not about not
37:13knowing the source.
37:14It is about the scale of
37:16action that is needed.
37:17So let's focus on that,
37:19on one of the critical
37:20areas that your report
37:22points out, vehicular
37:23pollution, which suggests
37:24that, therefore, the air
37:26quality remains bad right
37:28around the year, certainly
37:30higher than acceptable
37:31because of vehicular
37:32pollution, along with
37:34dust.
37:34How do you tackle that
37:36on scale?
37:36So what our report also
37:39shows us, that there is a
37:40direct correlation between
37:42congestion, between
37:44pollution, between
37:46vehicular movement, and
37:48particularly NO2 levels,
37:51nitrogen dioxide levels,
37:52which are also very
37:54elevated.
37:55We also find that carbon
37:56monoxide levels are very
37:58high.
37:59Now, this means that we
38:00need to deal with
38:01vehicular pollution, and
38:03we need to make different
38:04categories of it.
38:05So how do vehicles
38:07pollute?
38:08Vehicles pollute by the
38:09number of, by the
38:10kilometers they travel, and
38:12by the emission standards
38:14that are there.
38:15Now, we, if you look at
38:17private cars, we are adding
38:19500 new cars into Delhi a
38:22day.
38:23Now, this is data for Delhi
38:24registration only.
38:26If you take all of NCR, it
38:28would be much higher.
38:29We're adding 1,500 new
38:32two-wheelers a day.
38:33Now, it's not possible to
38:35say people should get off
38:37their cars, get off their
38:39two-wheelers, when we don't
38:40have adequate public
38:41transport.
38:42So you need to upscale
38:44public transport at a scale
38:46that we have never seen.
38:48But we need clean public
38:49transport.
38:50If you remember, Rajdeep,
38:51you were very much doing
38:53shows at that time when we
38:54moved towards CNG in Delhi.
38:56We moved all buses, all
38:59diesel buses in one year to
39:01compress natural gas.
39:03We moved all auto rickshaws to
39:05compress natural gas.
39:06The scale of it, 100,000
39:08vehicles moved to CNG.
39:10That's the scaling we need.
39:12Now, if you're talking about
39:14public transport, we need to
39:15be able to scale it at that
39:17level.
39:18Today, we are adding a few
39:20electric buses, which is
39:22great.
39:23But ridership in buses is
39:25going down.
39:25Because there is so much
39:27congestion on the road that
39:29buses are stuck in traffic,
39:30they've become unreliable,
39:32they have breakdowns, and as
39:33a result of it, ridership is
39:35down.
39:36So that's one big part of the
39:37agenda.
39:38And every time it gets put off
39:40saying, oh, this is a long-term
39:42agenda, but it's time we
39:43started a real, solid
39:46upgradation of public transport.
39:49But over and above that, we need
39:51two other parts of that agenda.
39:53We need trucks, which are really
39:57old trucks.
39:58We need to make sure that we can
40:00move them to better quality
40:02trucks today.
40:03Because BS6 trucks today are much
40:06lower in terms of emissions.
40:08But you cannot do this one or two.
40:10You need a scheme like CNG when you
40:13replaced all auto rickshaws.
40:15You need to incentivize this
40:16scrappage program.
40:18Then you need your autos, your
40:20taxis, which travel the maximum
40:23kilometers, 200 kilometers a day,
40:26to completely electrify.
40:28But again, you need to do that
40:30super fast.
40:31Not one here, one there.
40:33You need to do it.
40:34And with this, you need to make
40:36sure you have car restraint
40:38measures, which is high parking.
40:40But you can't do that till you
40:42provide people an alternative.
40:44You have to get us to move people
40:48and not vehicles.
40:49It's an agenda that cannot, will not
40:52go away.
40:53And be very clear, Rajdeep, we're all
40:55stuck in traffic.
40:56And now we're not just stuck in traffic.
40:58We're also breathing foul air.
41:00And no amount of air purifiers is
41:03going to make us healthy.
41:05Those are very strong words.
41:07What we need, therefore, is an urgent
41:09and scaled up plan to control
41:12vehicular pollution in particular
41:14at the very earliest.
41:16Does anyone have the political will
41:18to do that is a big question,
41:20or the appetite to do that.
41:22Parliament discusses a range of
41:24other issues.
41:25Why can't they devote 10 hours
41:27to air pollution as well?
41:29If you can discuss Vande Matram
41:31on its 150th anniversary,
41:34why not, for God's sake,
41:36discuss something for today,
41:37which is air pollution,
41:39and find solutions,
41:40and come with a consensus
41:41and a plan of action.
41:43Not just discuss it,
41:44but a plan of action.
41:46Implement it.
41:46And implement that plan.
41:48I take your point.
41:49I take your point.
41:51Implement that plan of action.
41:52Sunita Narayan, for sharing details
41:54of that report,
41:55appreciate you joining me here
41:57in our continuing focus
41:58on the air emergency.
42:00Let's turn to tonight's ground report,
42:02which comes from Jammu and Kashmir.
42:04More than 35 years after the abduction
42:06of then Home Minister Mufti Saeed's
42:09daughter Rubaiya Saeed,
42:11the CBI arrested one of the alleged
42:13absconders, Shafat Ahmed Shanglu.
42:16But a day later, the TADA court
42:17rejected the plea for his judicial remand,
42:20essentially paving way for his release.
42:23Was this a botched-up investigation
42:25then by the CBI?
42:26Take a look at tonight's ground report.
42:38Over 35 years after Rubaiya Saeed's
42:41kidnap, the CBI has announced
42:43the arrest of Shafat Ahmed Shanglu.
42:45In a press release on Monday,
42:51the central agency claimed that it had taken Shanglu
42:54into custody in the case.
42:56The CBI called Shanglu an absconder
42:57and added that there was a reward of 10 lakh rupees
43:00against him.
43:01It claimed that Shanglu had conspired with JKLF founder
43:04Yasin Malik to abduct Rubaiya Saeed,
43:06the daughter of then Home Minister Mufti Muhammad Saeed.
43:10On Tuesday, the CBI produced Shanglu in a court in Jammu
43:15which released him, rejecting that agency's demand for custody.
43:19Shanglu's lawyer claims that the suspect
43:21was already cleared with the investigators
43:22and he was never absconding.
43:24There was a charge sheet in this case.
43:26What is his name?
43:28His name is, but what is his name?
43:31His name was obviously.
43:32His name was in charge sheet.
43:33Obviously, it was his name.
43:34But the I.O. has benefited from it,
43:36that there was no evidence for him
43:38during the investigation of the case.
43:39That is the reason he has been set free.
43:41Coming out of the court room,
43:56Shanglu reiterated that he was not on the run.
43:58I was very much here.
44:18I don't know.
44:20Shanglu was at the passport office in Srinagar
44:31for passport renewal on Monday
44:32when he got a call from the police station in Nishat.
44:35The police handed him over to the CBI team
44:38when he reached there.
44:43It's been no less than an emotional rollercoaster
44:47for the Shanglu family.
44:48The last 24 hours, things have changed quite,
44:51in fact, at a drastic rate.
44:53In fact, I am right now outside one of his shops.
44:57This is a shop that is owned by Shafat Ahmad Shanglu.
45:00Though the shop remains shut,
45:02in fact, has been shut for quite some time now
45:04since he's into a travel business
45:07and frequently travels to Dubai,
45:09if family is to be believed.
45:10He was picked up by the CBI from police station Nishat.
45:14Rubaiya Saeed's daughter of Mufti Saeed was kidnapped in 1989.
45:21The VP Singh government had released five terrorists from jail
45:25to secure Rubaiya's release.
45:27JKLF chief Yasin Malik, who was behind the abduction,
45:30is currently in jail.
45:31The arrest and immediate release of Shafat Ahmad Shanglu
45:35is an embarrassment for the CBI,
45:38which seems to have overlooked the earlier clean shit
45:40given to the Kashmiri businessmen.
45:42With Sunil Ji Bhatt and Meir Fareed,
45:45Bureau Report, India Today.
45:46Let's turn to tonight's Get Real India story.
45:52He stood up for women being harassed,
45:54but ended up paying for it with his life.
45:56A 26-year-old national para-powerlifting champion,
46:01Rohit Dhankar was beaten to death
46:03at a wedding in Haryana's Rotak district
46:05for objecting to misbehavior with women guests.
46:09A promising athlete, a local coach,
46:11and the sole breadwinner of his family,
46:13Rohit's killing has sparked serious questions
46:16on mob violence and law and order in Haryana.
46:20This is the story of courage, brutality,
46:23and a demand for justice.
46:25Take a look.
46:39A 26-year-old life, full of promise,
46:42medals, medals, and dreams.
46:46Cut short in a burst of violence.
46:55A champion who lifted weights for a living,
46:58a para-athlete raised his voice and support
47:01for women being harassed and paid with his life.
47:04Rohit Dhankar, a national-level para-powerlifter,
47:10a multiple-time champion, is dead.
47:14Brutally beaten in Haryana's Rotak district
47:17for standing up against harassment at a wedding.
47:20It happened at a family wedding in Rivari Khera village.
47:27Rohit was leaving the venue with his friends
47:29when a group of men allegedly drunk
47:31misbehaved with women guests.
47:34Rohit objected.
47:35Words were exchanged.
47:37What followed was a savage attack.
47:38Rohit collapsed on the spot.
47:58With multiple fractures and head injuries,
48:00he was rushed from one hospital to another.
48:04But injuries were too severe.
48:06Late Saturday night,
48:07the young athlete lost the fight for his life.
48:23A life built on discipline,
48:25strength, and dignity ended by mob brutality.
48:33The murder of Rohit Dhankar is no longer
48:49just a crime story.
48:51It is a question of law and order in Haryana.
48:54If a national champion is not safe
48:56for standing up for women,
48:57what protection does the common citizen have?
49:03When mob rule replaces the rule of law,
49:06fear wins and justice becomes fragile.
49:12Bureau Report, India Today.
49:14Get Real India stories that you don't see
49:22on primetime across news channels.
49:24I want to leave you though
49:25with our good news today's story of the day
49:29where a powerful message from Madhya Pradesh.
49:32In Ujjain, a mass wedding of 22 couples
49:35took centre stage.
49:37But also taking centre stage
49:39was a VVIP son,
49:41Abhimanyu Yadav,
49:42the younger son of Chief Minister Mohan Yadav.
49:45With spiritual leaders and dignitaries in attendance,
49:48the event stood out as a striking counter
49:51to India's at times rather extravagant
49:53wedding culture.
49:55I leave you with tonight's good news today's story.
49:58You stay well, stay safe.
50:00Good night, Shubratri.
50:01Jai Hind.
50:02Namaskar.
50:03This mass wedding is no ordinary one.
50:14Among the 22 grooms is Dr. Abhimanyu Yadav,
50:17younger son of Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister Mohan Yadav.
50:21Abhimanyu married Dr. Ishita Patel on Sunday
50:24on the banks of Shipra River in Ujjain.
50:26The two took their vows alongside 21 other couples.
50:30Other grooms and brides appreciated
50:57the Chief Minister's gesture.
51:01The mass wedding was attended
51:23by many prominent people,
51:25including spiritual leaders Ramdev and Bageshwarwar.
51:32At a time when millions are spent on wedding bashes,
51:37the Ujjain wedding ceremony sets an example of simplicity.
51:40With Ravish Pal Singh, Bureau Report, India Today.
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