- 3 hours ago
A significant controversy unfolds over the Indian government's directive to pre-install the 'Sanchar Saathi' app on all smartphones, sparking a heated debate over privacy and potential surveillance. Union Telecom Minister Jyotiraditya Scindia has stated the app is optional and can be deleted, countering allegations of snooping from opposition leaders like Shiv Sena (UBT)'s Priyanka Chaturvedi and Congress's Shama Mohamed. This political clash is juxtaposed with grim news from Haryana, where the state of law and order and sports infrastructure is under scrutiny following the murder of national para-athlete Rohit Dhankhar and the death of 16-year-old basketball player Hardik Rathi due to a collapsing pole. Congress MP Deepender Hooda has criticized the BJP government for alleged 'criminal negligence'. The report also covers the renaming of the Prime Minister's Office to 'Seva Teerth' and a 'Nati Chicken' breakfast meeting between Karnataka CM Siddaramaiah and DK Shivakumar.
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00:00Welcome, you're watching To The Point. I am Preeti Chowdhury. We have two cracker of debates lined up for you. First up, allow me to take you through the headlines.
00:14After Macaulay mindset call, Modi government to rename Prime Minister's office to Seva Teeth. Congress calls the renaming a mere distraction.
00:22A mid-showdown over SIR Parliament to debate electoral reforms on December 9th, 10 hours are allotted for debate in Lok Sabha.
00:43Sanchar Sati Rao intensifies. Opposition raises snooping concerns.
00:47Rakes up right to privacy, government clarifies as not mandatory for users to register and they can even delete the app.
00:55It's mandatory. If you don't want to register, if you don't want to register, you don't want to register as an app. So don't register.
01:09DK Shiv Kumar hosts Sidda Ramaya for round two of breakfast meat, idli, naughty chicken on platter.
01:15Both leaders call each other brothers. Sidda Ramaya says DKS will become chief minister when top brass makes him see it.
01:28Pakistan government buckles under pressure after meeting Imran Khan.
01:32Sister Uzma Khan says brother being mentally tortured in Rawalpindi's Adhiyala jail blames General Munir for the mess.
01:45Fair amount of controversy today and it all started with what many thought was slowly slipping in of what the government calls security
02:00through a particular app which can track your phone but the opposition clearly and others are calling it surveillance.
02:06So which one is it and has the government somewhere down the line backtracked on what seemed to be an order of sorts
02:14and now saying it's up to you, delete it if you want.
02:16Here's more.
02:17A sweeping digital directive by the government and then a rethink under pressure.
02:30Every smartphone sold in India must now come pre-installed with a government developed app, Sanchar Sati.
02:37No choice at the point of sale, no opt out at installation.
02:42The aim, the government says, is cyber safety. The impact, nationwide uproar citing breach of privacy.
02:50The results, a possible climb down by the government.
02:54Why many see this as a rethink in the notice,
03:01issued by the telecom ministry point 7b clearly states that the app's functionality is neither disabled,
03:09nor restricted.
03:19We've discussed this at great lengths on cyber security and this and that and definitely there's a need for cyber security,
03:29but that doesn't mean that it gives you an excuse to go into every citizen's telephone. I don't think any citizen would be happy.
03:35India is a democratic country. India has in its constitution,
03:51in its constitution, enshrined that the right to privacy is a citizen.
03:56And if there is a benefit of the citizens, then I will take it seriously.
04:01The Department of Telecommunications had asked all mobile phone manufacturers and importers to ensure the Sanchar Sati app is installed on every new handset sold in the country.
04:13Stating security concerns, the app allows users to block stolen phones, check fake IMEIs, report spam calls and track fraudulent connections.
04:25Civil liberty groups and tech experts smell surveillance, saying a pre-installed government app, active by default, raises serious red flags on data access, tracking and misuse.
04:37Faced with mounting pressure, the government moved quickly to clarify and climb down.
04:42According to the center, cyber frauds, stolen phones and fakes,
05:11are rising sharply, causing massive financial losses.
05:16Sanchar Sati, they say, empowers citizens to protect themselves in real time.
05:23The Sanchar Sati Rao has reopened a larger national debate.
05:27Where does cyber security end and government surveillance begin?
05:31In a digital democracy, safety cannot come at the cost of trust.
05:36Bureau Report, India Today.
05:39All right, I want to quickly bring in Priyanka Chaturvedi.
05:41I want to quickly bring in Priyanka Chaturvedi, Rajya Sabha MP Shiv Sena and with Shiv Sena.
05:48She joins us live right now.
05:50She's been very vocal since the course of the morning.
05:52Ever since there was news that there could be a mandatory app, Sanchar Sati, that could be pre-installed in all smartphones sold in India.
06:02Priyanka Chaturvedi, you have Jyotir Aditya Sindhya who has come out and clarified very clearly,
06:08aapko lagana hai aap lagao, aapko nahi lagana hai aap nahi lagao.
06:11This is for security.
06:12You're damned if you do.
06:13You're damned if you don't.
06:15Is that a question?
06:21I would say even the statement coming from the minister is so arrogant in nature and so arrogant in content and is also full of half-truths.
06:30When you say mandated, when you're asking any mobile manufacturer to preload an app, it becomes mandatory on every phone.
06:38So this is absolutely ridiculous where he's saying that y'all can voluntarily download the app or delete the app.
06:44It isn't the case.
06:45They have mandated every mobile manufacturer, which Apple has pushed back now, that they need to preload this app.
06:53And once that app is preloaded, and let me just go through all the permissions that the app has, because I have a screenshot.
07:01It can read your SMSs.
07:03It can check your phone status.
07:04It can check all your photo media files.
07:06It can check your storage if your phone has USB storage.
07:11It can access camera.
07:13It can have your device ID and call information.
07:16It can control your flashlight.
07:18It has full network access, run at startup, control vibration, prevent device from sleeping, Google Play license check.
07:24So it can check just so much.
07:26That is the access that the app will have.
07:28And it is coming preloaded.
07:30So whatever he's saying is absolutely half-truth, where he says you can delete the app.
07:35No.
07:36When you're preloading it, that's a choice you're taking away from the citizen of this country, whether they want this app on their phones or they don't want this app on their phone.
07:43So that choice is killed, then your right to privacy is under attack.
07:48And this is exactly what this government has been up to, whether it was Pegasus on journalists' phones, whether it was a state-sponsored hacking on our phones.
07:56And now they were trying to test waters by trying to do this with 140 crore Indians and whoever uses a mobile phone.
08:02So clearly they have been called out, and he has been left with a red face.
08:06I would want him to withdraw this because spoken words do not hold any legal value.
08:11It is the written words, and the written words are pretty clear that it is mandated, and they cannot alter, change, or deny access.
08:18That is the plain truth which has to be withdrawn.
08:21But Priyanka Chaturvedi, what Jyothi Raditya Sindhya has gone ahead and said, and I'll just quote you on that, that yes, it's been pre-mandated to pre-install this app on all phones sold in India.
08:34But if you want, you can activate it, because it can provide you with an X amount of security, because there's a fair amount of cyber fraud.
08:42If you don't, then you don't activate it. If you don't want the Sanchar Saathi app, all you have to do is delete that app from your phone.
08:51That is what, it's not mandatory. That is what Jyothi Raditya Sindhya says.
08:56No, no, that, you know, no, no, again, I will just repeat, what is mandatory and what is a choice? Let me tell you.
09:03A choice is when you know that an app like this exists and it can safeguard your phone.
09:08It gives the citizen that choice whether they want to download it on their phone for safety purposes or they don't want to download it.
09:14That is choice. Now, what is mandate? Mandate is when you tell them that this app has to be pre-loaded on your phones
09:20and let the citizen have it on their phones and then they decide whether they want to keep it or delete it.
09:26That means they were left with no choice, but it has come to them as part of buying a handphone.
09:31That is what I am trying to tell you. What he is saying is half truth. What he is hiding are facts.
09:36And that is what I am trying to say here, that the choice should be that of the citizens to set their country.
09:42The point that you make of surveillance, the point that you make of snooping is very much there and it is taken.
09:48But even if it is under pressure that the telecom minister is backtracking and he has come out with an explanation,
09:54he actually does say that you can delete an app from your phone and it can really happen on all pre-loaded apps that you get sometimes on your phone.
10:02You can delete that particular app. It's tech.
10:08Now, again, let me repeat to you, Preeti, all the pre-loaded apps that come, a customer when they are buying a handset,
10:15they are in a contractual agreement. They agree that we know these apps are there and these are not government apps.
10:21This is not any government of any country pre-loading an app. This has never happened.
10:27Russia perhaps has that. Probably North Korea would have it. But no government has this.
10:33But you have the option Priyanka Chaturvedi to delete that app.
10:38Again, again I am asking you ma'am and I repeat to you, why should I be buying a handphone with a pre-loaded app coming from the government of India?
10:50That is my simple question. Allow me as Priyanka Chaturvedi, citizen of this country who has a choice to make as an adult when she is buying a phone,
10:59what app she wants on her phone, what she doesn't. Why should it be coming as a mandate that it should be pre-loaded and Priyanka then has,
11:05Priyanka is at the liberty whether she wants to keep it or delete it. Why? Let it be like any other app.
11:11And if you are so concerned about cyber safety, I am so sorry I have to say this.
11:15Priyanka you have a… AIMS data breach. Aadhaar card data breach.
11:20Then health records data breach. First maintain the security that is needed for our, you know, cyber safety.
11:27Before you come to this, so I think this was rushed through. This was done in a very, you know, cloak and dagger manner.
11:34They were testing waters. And as a member of the standing committee of IT and commerce communication,
11:40this could have also passed through the basic scrutiny of will this damage any kind of constitutional privilege
11:47and rights that people of this country have. So that is also not done.
11:50So the basic stakeholder consultation that should happen at every point has not been done.
11:55And now the pushback you see from telecom companies is pretty clear that neither were they consulted.
12:01Priyanka, I hear you that yes, you know, why have a pre-mandated government-ordered app on each phone?
12:06Let people decide what app they want to download and what they don't.
12:09But, you know, on the other hand, there is a clear sense and fear of rising cyber fraud.
12:14And that is one reason that the telecom minister Jyothi Raditya Sindhya gives at the back of this,
12:19that at one end we are looking at fighting, you know, something which is so sinister,
12:24especially where the tech world is concerned, especially where fighting cyber fraud is concerned,
12:29that we are giving you an option. Delete it if you don't want to.
12:31I am just giving you what the government is saying, Priyanka.
12:34Again, I shall repeat, please check the best practices globally
12:41on how other countries are handling these kind of cyber frauds, cyber threats and cyber security issues.
12:48No country in the world, except for perhaps Russia, which gets you to download some, comes with pre-loaded app.
12:55No country in the world is handling these cyber issues by pre-mandating and pre-loading an app
13:01which is coming from the government of India.
13:03Again, this is not, you know, under the garb of national security, citizen safety, citizen security.
13:10The government has been assaulting on every single constitutional right of India.
13:15If you, even in terms of the postal act that came into, you know, came to become an act.
13:22During that discussion also we said, under the garb of national security, they can check all the posts,
13:27the couriers, every parcel which is delivered to our homes.
13:30Under the garb of national security.
13:32So how much can they interfere into every single aspect of our lives?
13:36Priyanka, my final question before I let you go.
13:38So what you're insinuating?
13:40To know what is your safety, make banks accountable.
13:43Okay. What you're insinuating, Priyanka, is…
13:45No, what I'm insinuating is something which we've seen earlier too.
13:47Whether it was Pegasus…
13:50Okay. Make your point. Make your point.
13:53If I can complete.
13:54One was the Pegasus issue that journalists faced.
13:58Then there was a cyber…
14:00There was a state-sponsored hacking surveillance that I also on my mobile phone had got from Apple.
14:06And now we are seeing this.
14:08So again, this is a government which loves to believe that it needs to keep a check on whatever we are doing.
14:13Now let's go back to the Aadhaar example. Aadhaar was mandated for everything we do.
14:18Every part of our life is covered by Aadhaar.
14:20But when it came to, you know, the SIR activities, Aadhaar is neither your birth certificate.
14:25Aadhaar is neither your identity proof. Aadhaar is neither your address proof.
14:28Aadhaar is nothing.
14:30So what is…
14:31Priyanka, before I let you go…
14:32So what you're basically saying was this was a sinister way of slowly trying to slip in surveillance,
14:38which they've been caught on and therefore they've backtracked.
14:41Is that what you're trying to suggest?
14:43Absolutely. The kind of uproar they saw and they realized that they cannot hide this surveillance mechanism
14:51from the people of this country.
14:53That is why you see a backtracking half-truths being spread and shed.
14:56Where the clarity, it is very clear as daylight that this was a surveillance mechanism preloaded,
15:02mandated to telephone manufacturers and coming on our phones with access to all the data on the phone.
15:08Okay.
15:09So it's as simple as that.
15:10All right, Priyanka, thank you for taking the time out and joining us there.
15:13Priyanka Chaturvedi, she's been very, very vocal against this particular…
15:16Thank you so much.
15:17…app which the government had mandated.
15:18Now I'm saying it's not something that you really need to use.
15:20You don't want to delete it.
15:21We were just trying to give you a security buffer.
15:23Let's cut across to our debate this evening. Joining me is Sanju Verma, National Spokesperson,
15:28Bharatiya Janata Party, Shama Mohammed, National Spokesperson, Congress.
15:31Each of you will get two minutes to put your point forward.
15:34Shama, let's begin with you.
15:36The telecom minister today did come out and make it very clear that all of this is trying to build controversy
15:43where there is absolutely nothing.
15:45You don't want the app. Delete the app.
15:47But at one point, you wanted us to act against cyber fraud.
15:50We are trying to create a mechanism and now you are accusing us of surveillance.
15:54Delete it. Don't use it.
15:55Who's telling you to use it?
15:57Okay, let me start off with the telecom minister.
16:01I want to first ask, why do we need an app like this?
16:04Now you're saying cyber fraud.
16:05Do you think in America it doesn't happen?
16:07In Germany it doesn't happen?
16:09China.
16:10I mean, Germany and China, Germany and America are democracies.
16:15We know that.
16:16And many other European countries, UK, France, and they're all very up in technology.
16:21Why don't they use this?
16:22When I heard this today, I thought that India has given or is giving birth to the
16:28police of East Germany.
16:31So, we are all going to be spied upon.
16:34Now, what did the telecom minister say, Jyotir Aditya Sindhya, that if you want you can delete
16:41it.
16:42All right.
16:43Now, what does the dot say?
16:46Let me read it out to you.
16:48So, they have also called up phone manufacturers, the Indian government and said that you have
17:05to preload this on a new device and you have to see to it the users cannot disable.
17:13So, if Jyotir Aditya Sindhya comes and lies, we cannot do anything.
17:17We need to see what is on paper.
17:20This is the government who, you know, did what we all know is get Pegasus here and was
17:25spying on multiple political leaders, phones, journalists, phones, and it has been proved.
17:29This is the government who went against right to privacy in the Supreme Court.
17:34So, they are the ones who want to follow opposition leaders, journalists, where they
17:40are going, who they are meeting, what are their message.
17:43This is invasion into my privacy and I will not allow it, the Congress party will not
17:48allow it.
17:49We do not want to become East Germany.
17:54We do not want to become all those states before, during the Cold War, where each one
17:59and the families fight on the other.
18:01Sir, my moment your time is up and I will urge you to check your, you know, your internet
18:06connection.
18:07You know, it is a little sketchy.
18:08So, just check it while we cut across to Sanju Verma for her two minutes.
18:11Sanju Verma, your two minutes start now.
18:13I just want, you know, for somebody who is very good and very big on documents.
18:17I go back to what the DOT, the Department of Telecommunication, which came out and, you
18:22know, I can happily read out to you on what it really said, which practically mandated that
18:27you cannot delete this app.
18:29And then, you have the telecom minister today who is saying, who is asking you to keep it,
18:34you do not want to delete it.
18:35So, clearly, there has been a backtrack at the back of the backlash, which is not just
18:40the opposition, which is a lot of people in India who are saying you cannot mandatorily
18:45make us, you know, keep an app so that you can snoop on us.
18:50You know, Priti, a very valid question.
18:52And let me just come straight to the point.
18:55When the, you know, Sanchar Kathi app was initiated in January 2025, the DOT did say that,
19:04you know, this is pre-installed and you cannot delete it.
19:07But, 24 hours back, the man who really matters, Jyoti Raditya Sindhya, the minister of telecom,
19:14and I am sitting here on your show, a widely watched show as the national spokesperson of
19:19BJP, telling you, this app, if you want, you can activate it.
19:24If you want, you can deactivate it.
19:26If you want, you can uninstall it.
19:29Point number one.
19:30Point number two.
19:31Let's be very clear that today we have more than 1.25 billion mobile phone users in India,
19:38one of the biggest numbers globally.
19:40We are one of the biggest mobile phone users globally.
19:43And there is a 15-digit unique IMEI.
19:47But increasingly, we are told that this IMEI number, which is supposedly unique, is being cloned by fraudsters.
19:55So, what does the Sanchar Sathi app seek to do?
19:59It seeks to empower consumers by mitigating the possibility of cloning IMEI and thereby reining in frauds,
20:10be it banking frauds, cybersecurity frauds, so on you.
20:14But I just want to say this, Preeti.
20:16Benefits of the Sanchar Sathi app till now.
20:184.21 mobile phone devices were blocked before they could be misused.
20:232.61 mobile phones that were stolen were successfully traced.
20:2729 million citizens were able to verify the SIM card issued in their name.
20:32And with this app, more than 30 million fake connections were disconnected.
20:37In the month of October alone, more than 5-0, 50,000 phones were recovered due to this Sanchar Sathi app.
20:44So, the Sanchar Sathi app enables to report suspicious calls, spams, malicious links,
20:50allows the blocking of lost or stolen phones.
20:53Ma'am, your time is up.
20:54Sanjeev Verma, the fact is, you know, the deal is you don't really need to detail on the benefits of the app.
20:59Nobody is really questioning the efficacy in terms of guarding security.
21:02Nobody is questioning that.
21:04The question is very clear that why is it mandated?
21:08It needs to be your choice if you want to download it.
21:12If you're going to make it mandatory for me, I'm going to question that you're trying to, you know,
21:16build in surveillance into my phone, which I don't want.
21:18But I just want to bring in Shama Mohammed there.
21:21And Shama Mohammed, let's say there's a backtrack.
21:23Ms. Sanju Verma has admitted, yes, it was supposed to be mandatory.
21:25Now, you have the telecom minister who's come out and said that it is not mandatory.
21:29So, for those people, because away from, you know, snooping, away from surveillance,
21:35away from the whole concept how it's dystopian in nature that it is inbuilt into your phones,
21:40away from all of that, there is a clear and present danger where cyber fraud and cyber crime comes into question.
21:46And an app like this can really help.
21:48And I know people who it has really helped with.
21:51So, if you don't want it, delete it, but allow somebody to keep it.
21:55Ma'am, you're on mute. You're on mute, Shama Mohammed.
22:03No, I'm not on mute.
22:05Now you're okay, ma'am.
22:06Yeah.
22:07Go ahead.
22:08My question is that if you're bringing in something, first and foremost, why to bring in something like this,
22:15saying that it will not be mandatory.
22:20That's what the minister said.
22:23Now, I want to ask, how do I trust the minister?
22:26Has it come out in black and white?
22:28No.
22:29It's him saying it.
22:30Let it come out, one, on a piece of paper saying it's not mandatory.
22:34Number two, how do I trust this government?
22:36It says it's not mandatory.
22:38How do I know that even if I uninstall it, certain things like Pegasus can still creep into you.
22:44So, you have it when you get it.
22:46They say uninstall it, but it could still be there because I don't trust this government.
22:51That is the thing.
22:52We know what happened with Pegasus.
22:54They still haven't told in parliament whether they used it or they did not use it.
22:59You see, they have not denied it.
23:01So, I believe this government likes to snoop on people.
23:05We have seen how vindictive this government is.
23:07Any politician, businessmen who donates to the Congress party are gone after.
23:12Anybody who jumps into the party, into the BJP, ED stops their investigation.
23:18Politicians targeted, journalists targeted.
23:21So, I do not want my privacy to be invaded.
23:24And I am asking you, how does the United States, Canada, Germany, everywhere cyber crime happens.
23:31So, better policing.
23:32There is a cyber crime centre.
23:33Why should we have an app to do it?
23:35Do better policing, punishments, strict punishments.
23:38You know, there should be better ways of giving classes to older people.
23:43So, there are many other ways, Preeti.
23:46But I will not accept something they say which is not mandatory.
23:50I do not want it.
23:51Because I clearly do not trust the government of India.
23:55They lie.
23:56Now, Preeti is saying that, you know what, sorry, Sanju is saying, you know, it can be put, it cannot be put.
24:02We don't believe this government.
24:03How many times have they lied to us?
24:05Okay.
24:06Ma'am, your time is up.
24:07I will come back to you for your final two minutes later.
24:08I want to bring in Sanju Verma.
24:09Sanju Verma, you know, history stands testimony to the distrust that there is.
24:13And I am not just talking on the part of the opposition.
24:15I am talking about, you know, at the back of what happened with Pegasus.
24:19There was a court appointed committee and nothing really.
24:22It has been inconclusive regarding whether or not Pegasus was used or not used.
24:27So, we really do not know what came off that.
24:29So, that is a grey area in any case.
24:31There is a different, you know, fight which is still on, you know, legally where Aadhaar is concerned
24:37and where Digital Personal Data Protection Act comes into question.
24:41So, therefore, when you say that this was mandatory, now it's not mandatory.
24:45I don't believe you, Sanju Verma.
24:47You are trying to snoop on me.
24:49Okay, Preeti.
24:51I just want to say this.
24:52You know, whether Preeti Chaudhary believes me or not, whether Shama Mohammed believes Sanju Verma or not,
24:58that is not important.
24:59What is important is, let us stick to facts.
25:02Pegasus, Pegasus, Pegasus.
25:03I kept hearing on the debate.
25:05The Supreme Court asked Rahul Gandhi to submit his phone.
25:09He refused to do it.
25:10Supreme Court clearly said,
25:11If you are worried about being snooped upon, why don't you submit your phone?
25:16Rahul Gandhi's politics is about shoot and spoole.
25:18I don't trust Rahul Gandhi.
25:20I don't trust, you know, his dim-wittedness.
25:22But I will tell you what, Preeti.
25:24Let's not forget, in 2010, on the floor of the Parliament, his former Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh admitted that under UPA 2, on an average, every single year, 9,000 phones were being snooped upon and 500 email accounts were being snooped upon.
25:45And when pressurized by the opposition, he refused for a JPC but did say that we are doing it because, you know, of national security concerns.
25:54And the entire Congress cabal said, Vajiva.
25:57Who did Congress snooped upon?
25:59And this is not Sanju Verma giving wrong information on your show.
26:02RTI petitioner Prosanjit Mandal.
26:05When he put in an RTI petition, he was informed.
26:08The Congress-led proxy government of Sonia Gandhi slash Manmohan Singh snooped upon Jay Jayalelita, snooped upon Karunanidhi, snooped upon their own leader, Bharat Mukherjee, snooped upon Sitaram Yachuri, snooped upon Mamata Banerjee, and very recently, in 2023, April, Wade Prakash Solanki, a Congress MLA from Rajasthan, said that Ashok Gehlod, the then CM, was snooping upon his own MLA.
26:34And this party is talking about data protection and cyber security?
26:40I mean, there is a limit to hypocrisy.
26:43I will just say this, that every year in the US, 15 billion dollars worth of money is lost due to cybercrime.
26:53Ma'am, your time is up.
26:54I'm going to give both of you one minute each and you say that you're not going to believe me.
26:57Like, I'll actually tell you.
26:58I was actually mulling about installing the app because I've lost too many phones.
27:02But if you're going to say, I'm going to do it for you, then I'm not doing it.
27:05So, it has to be pro-choice.
27:07I know a lot of people who benefit out of the app, but you cannot mandate something like this.
27:12That's it.
27:13But I want to give both of you one minute each.
27:15Your time begins now, Shamaa Mohamad.
27:16One minute, closing arguments.
27:18So, snooping, she talked about snooping without any evidence and she's a liar.
27:22Nothing of this, we never snoop on leaders.
27:24Now, who's one who snooped upon is the Prime Minister of India when he was a Gujarat chief minister on a lady who he wanted to, you know, have her or whatever.
27:33He's put her, she was snooping on her and they came out and told.
27:37We all know about.
27:38So, who's snooping?
27:39The Prime Minister of India.
27:40Because I'm not going to call him names just like Sanju Verma because she's of lower class.
27:44So, I do not get along with Sanju Verma.
27:46Let's do a clear of personal, both of you.
27:48And the other one is RTI.
27:49Please stay clear of personal attacks.
27:51Make your point.
27:52Make your point.
27:5330 seconds.
27:54She was attacking Rahul Gandhi and she was calling him names.
27:56Did you say anything?
27:57That was a personal attack.
27:58I'm just, both of you, you know, it's a request to the both of you.
28:02I did not call her.
28:03I called Rahul.
28:04So, RTI is something which we got.
28:05Alright?
28:06Write to information to find out where corruption is.
28:09Everything.
28:10You have watered it down.
28:11You don't even bother about it.
28:14Where is the Lokpal?
28:16So, who is corrupt?
28:17Is the government of India.
28:18The present BJP government.
28:20And who prevents?
28:21Who wants to snoop on everybody?
28:23Who wants to even snoop on the judges to see the judgement?
28:27Ma'am, time is up.
28:28Time is up.
28:29One minute.
28:30Sanju Verma starts now.
28:33I do not want to make this personal.
28:35Shama Mohammed says Sanju Verma is of lower class.
28:37All I will say is that the Kerala Congress leaders
28:40have called Shama Mohammed a clown.
28:42She is a clown who is not taken seriously.
28:44Okay, Shama Mohammed, I will not call you a mother's bread bigot.
28:48But you are a clown.
28:49Now, shut up.
28:50Now, let me say one thing.
28:51Can we?
28:52Now, let me say one thing very quickly.
28:54You know, listen to this.
28:57Google dialer is there on every Android phone which reads your entire call log 24-7 and cannot be deleted.
29:06Then there is true caller which more than 40 crore Indians have installed which gives complete access to your call log.
29:15People have no problem.
29:16Even in Apple phones.
29:18I have both Android and Apple phones.
29:20Apple, there is something called check for unwanted location trackers which gives entire information about your background to Apple.
29:28People have no problem.
29:30Here the government is working on cyber security.
29:33Idiots like Shama Mohammed.
29:35Manon, time is up.
29:36Time is up.
29:37I'm gonna leave it at that.
29:39Once again, you know, whatever you mandated, it's if I want to download Truecaller.
29:45Then I will download Truecaller.
29:47I will give them access to my phone book because I choose to.
29:50You can't choose to make me give you access to my phone book and that's where it rests.
29:55Once again, I will request both our panelists and whoever our panelists are in the future,
30:01you can use the time to put your party's point forward or attack each other.
30:06You can get into lowbrow attacks like lower class or idiot, but that's your call.
30:12Use it the way you want to.
30:14A 26-year-old life, full of promise, medals and dreams.
30:27Cut short in a burst of violence.
30:29A champion who lifted weights for a living, a para-athlete raised his voice and support
30:42women being harassed and paid with his life.
30:48Rohit Dhankar, a national-level para-power lifter, a multiple-time champion, is dead.
30:55Brutally beaten in Haryana's Rotak district for standing up against harassment at a wedding.
31:01It happened at a family wedding in Rivari Khera village.
31:07Rohit was leaving the venue with his friends when a group of men allegedly drunk misbehaved with women guests.
31:14Rohit objected.
31:16Words were exchanged.
31:17What followed was a savage attack.
31:19What followed was a savage attack.
31:27We had to comment on that.
31:30We had about 20-22 kids.
31:32We had 15-15 kids.
31:34We had to beat them.
31:38Rohit collapsed on the spot.
31:40With multiple fractures and head injuries, he was rushed from one hospital to another.
31:45But injuries were too severe.
31:47Late Saturday night, the young athlete lost the fight for his life.
31:51How old were you?
31:54Two.
31:55A life built on discipline, strength and dignity ended by mob brutality.
32:10Whatever the facts we have, we have to get rid of them.
32:17We will get rid of them.
32:20The murder of Rohit Dhankar is no longer just a crime story.
32:32It is a question of law and order in Haryana.
32:35If a national champion is not safe for standing up for women, what protection does the common citizen have?
32:44When mob rule replaces the rule of law, fear wins and justice becomes fragile.
32:50Bureau Report, India Today.
32:59Joining me is Senior Congress Leader and Lok Sabha Leader of the Congress, Dipinder Hudda.
33:05Dipinder Ji, thank you for taking the time out and joining us.
33:09There have been back-to-back incidents.
33:11Of course, the reason is very different.
33:13In this case, there is a para-athlete who has been murdered because he stood up for women who were being harassed at a wedding.
33:20And then cold-blooded murder there, a clear law and order problem in this particular case, Dipinder Ji.
33:30It's very sad.
33:31It's a heart-wrenching incident.
33:33And just speaking out for the right cause led the murderers to have this raged attack on this particular athlete, who is a national level athlete, five national championships under his belt.
33:51He belonged to my constituency.
33:53And, you know, this also speaks about the kind of lawlessness that has become the norm in Haryana today.
34:00There is, nobody seems to, you know, be taking the law and order situation seriously at all.
34:12If you look at all the figures presented by government, their own government, by union government, Modi government,
34:18according to the National Crime Record Bureau, Haryana tops in most of the crime categories.
34:23Haryana is number third in the country as far as murder rate is concerned.
34:27Haryana is number one in the country as far as crime against women is concerned.
34:32Haryana has seen the highest increase as far as drug-related, drug overdose-related deaths are concerned and drug-related FIRs are concerned.
34:42So, and organized crime itself, I mean, according to the admission of Haryana governments itself, more than 80 organized gangs are operating within the territory of Haryana.
34:55Some are operating from jails and some are operating from even some of the foreign countries.
35:01People are getting extortion calls.
35:03That has become a norm.
35:05And the police, Haryana police itself, you know, what's going on with Haryana police itself is highly questionable.
35:12You saw two senior officers committing suicide recently, ADGP rank and sub-inspector rank police officers in Haryana.
35:19And there is common knowledge that a lot of these gangsters, big gangs which are operating, these extortion calls which are getting made, etc.,
35:27some of these gangsters are mixed up with some of the policemen under the political pattern age.
35:32And a lot of times when these extortion calls get made, the ordinary citizen approaches the police and the police says that,
35:38okay, we'll get the settlement done.
35:41So, it's unfortunate.
35:43A state which was known for a very good law and order situation which led it to become one of the magnet for investments during the previous Congress regime
35:53and now is one of the worst states as far as law and order is concerned.
35:57So, and this particular example is a very, very heart-wrenching case but an example in that regards.
36:04Now, Dipinderji, it is indeed tragic because, you know, this young boy, all of 28 years old,
36:09was standing up for women who were being harassed at a wedding and then he is cornered and killed.
36:14The Haryana police, the Haryana administration, the government, we've sought answers.
36:19They say they have done all that needs to be done because it's a larger issue.
36:23You know, there is a personal enmity angle is what the Haryana police is insinuating.
36:28But the larger context, yes Dipinderji, go ahead.
36:31But the context, one context there is that the murderers did not even think twice before taking the law in their own hand.
36:41That environment, Haryana government, I hold responsible for that environment.
36:47So, that's why we see so many murders, kidnaps, extortion calls, crime against women in Haryana on a daily basis.
36:58And why the situation has gone from bad to worse is because the police has lost credibility.
37:03And, you know, the criminals are not afraid of the law enforcement at all.
37:10And it's the ordinary citizens who are afraid of both the criminals and ineffective police.
37:17And it has to be the other way around. And that's…
37:20Dipinderji, you know, let me expand the ambit of this conversation.
37:23At one end, you have… At one end, Dipinderji, you clearly have, you know, a law and order issue,
37:30which is reflected today in this sad, tragic incident in the death of a 28-year-old young boy.
37:36On the other hand, there have been incidents of negligence and, sadly, you know, the irony is there that both these incidents involve athletes from Haryana,
37:46which is the cradle of sports culture in India, where two young boys today have paid the price of negligence,
37:53one in Jhajar and the other one in Rotak.
37:55Yeah, you're right. I mean, it's a sad… The other two incidents are, again, extremely sad.
38:07And I hold the Haryana BJP government directly responsible for those two deaths.
38:12The government cannot wash away its responsibility on those two cases at all.
38:16It's government's responsibility. Unfortunately, what has happened, you saw what the incident, I'll just explain to you,
38:21the Lakhan Majra incident, where that particular basketball court and that particular basketball stadium has seen multiple players coming from them,
38:31making it to Indian team. In fact, the current basketball team, two are from Lakhan Majra village.
38:35And now, this particular… In spite of all this, for the last 11-12 years, not one rupee was given by Haryana government
38:46in terms of even maintaining these stadiums, including this one. Across Haryana, they have not spent any budget whatsoever
38:55in maintaining the sports infrastructure. Huge sports infrastructure was created during the previous Congress regime.
38:59Everybody knows that. We built 481 sports stadium across Haryana, from village level to district headquarter level.
39:07Now, 11-12 years have passed, let alone trying to build new sports infrastructure, creating new stadiums, etc.
39:14Even these stadiums were not properly given any, you know, looked after properly, etc.
39:21In this particular case, for many, many… for a long period of time, all these basketball players were running from pillar to post.
39:29They even met the chief minister, saying that we needed small little funds just to make sure that our sports stadium gets renovated.
39:38This stadium, I had gotten built in 2008 and 2009. So, it's almost now… almost, you can say, 18 years or so… 18 years back.
39:47So, it needed some maintenance funds. They met chief minister, they met all the ministers, nobody even bothered.
39:52Then, eventually, they came to me three years back. More ironically is that then, after the government did not do anything,
40:00I, from my own MPLAD, gave 18 and a half lakh rupees to… for this particular… this particular quote.
40:08But for three years, after deducting that 18 and a half lakh from MPLAD into the state… Haryana state coffers,
40:17that MPLAD was even not spent by the state authorities.
40:20Now, you can imagine. They are not doing it yet themselves. They are not even letting the local representatives help the people from their own funds.
40:29So, that… and eventually, we lost Hardik Rathi, the player there, who has been selected in Indian national basketball team.
40:38And, again, similarly, another… in another incident, we lost Aman from Bhadugard, who was also a budding… very good budding player, basketball player.
40:46Government is solely responsible. And what government does… today, the sports department of government of Haryana said that it had nothing to do with this particular incident.
40:55So, they are saying that it's not our responsibility. Why? I mean… I'll give you a clear example of why the sports department is also responsible.
41:07In this particular Lachanwajra Stadium, a sports nursery, basketball sports nursery was being run by the sports department.
41:14It was nursery that started during our time. But for 12 years, not one single coach has been recruited in Haryana.
41:20Now, you see, you call Haryana the sports cradle, but for 12 years, no sports recruitments. So, there are no shortage of coaches, because not one sports coach has been recruited.
41:32So, they stopped the nursery there. So, there was no… the government appointed sports coach there, and that's why they are saying that we are washing our hands, and it's not our responsibility.
41:43We demand… people of Haryana and people of Rahatak demand… we stand with the families, we demand justice for Hardik Rathi, and we demand justice for Aman.
41:52Both the families should be given compensation. There is a criminal liability. It's a case of criminal negligence on part of government. Criminal liability lies with the government, and government has to be payable.
42:02So, therefore, we ask for the government to provide permanent jobs to both the families, to provide some financial relief. Government has offered them 5 lakh rupees to these two families.
42:13Can you imagine? We demand that at least 1 crore rupee should be given. He is a national, Indian national basketball player. What are you saying? Because of you, he has lost his life, and you are saying that we give you a check of 5 lakhs.
42:24Dipinderji, my final question. Haryana has been the cradle of sports as such. The death of these two young, budding sports persons, clearly due to negligence, is tragic to say the least.
42:36You are also the MP of Rahatak, from which this one young boy, you know, paid Hardik Rathi, paid with his life because of negligence. Did you as an MP do enough? What was required of you?
42:50Of course. I mean, as an MP, I mean, this was a stadium which I got built in 2008 and 2009. And I am proud of the fact because this particular stadium produced so many national players after that.
43:08Even today, two national basketball in our team, two players are from that particular village. When the government of Haryana said we are not going to give any funds, I gave 18 and a half lakh rupees.
43:18But for three years, I gave them back in 2023, November 2023. But for three years, the government of Haryana refused to spend that money on the stadium.
43:31They took the money away from MP Ladd into their own treasury. But the money was imprisoned in their treasury, government of Haryana treasury. And they refused to spend any single dime on this.
43:42And then, as a responsible MP, while I am seeing this completely dilapidation of all the sports infrastructure in Haryana, I raised this issue multiple times in the parliament.
43:54Last year, I gave a speech. Last year, as far as Kelo India is concerned, which is a scheme by government of India, three and a half thousand crores of that budget that Kelo India has in 28 states.
44:08Haryana got the lowest amount, just 80 crores. And states like Gujarat got 600 crores, 605 crores. So a state which gets you most medals in Kelo India budget from government of Haryana is given the lowest budget.
44:22I raised that in parliament. I've been trying to fight for a right years. I mean, for a right, which is, I mean, it doesn't take anybody to figure out that you have to at least maintain our sports infrastructure.
44:37And when the sports infrastructure is crumbled across the state and we are having these sports related deaths, what are you going to say to our next generation?
44:46Fair point. We're going to leave it at that because major sports facilities today are directly managed.
44:50And I just want to put that on record on the Sports Authority of India, which is SAI, but the state as well has a huge part to play to keep nurturing the cradle of sports.
45:00I appreciate Dipinderji for taking the time and joining us on this subject. We're going to continue to follow this closely. Appreciate your time, sir. Thank you.
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