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The big focus of this episode of 5 Live is the massive showdown over Sanchar Saathi app between the government and the Opposition.
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00:00Sanchal Sati safety tool or surveillance threat
00:15phones to soon get new watchdog
00:24Center insists no snooping just safety
00:34App a digital shield or a forced intrusion
00:52Sanchal Sati showdown top focus on five-life
01:02Hi there I'm Sonal Merotra Kapoor this is five-life our life is pretty much on our phones right
01:21it has all our details it has all our emotions it has all our contacts financial all of that right and
01:30today that very phone has come into a major question a new app by the government promises
01:38the government says we'll keep it safe we'll keep all your data safe but the experts are saying under
01:46whom will the data go will that give them a gateway to sort of come in and snoop on our lives as well
01:55there's a massive debate online then there are the makers of the phones to whom the government has
02:01said it's mandatory for you to put this app inside the phone Apple has come out to say that they will
02:08not listen to them what about the others but while this entire controversy grew now the government has
02:16come out to clarify and say that well you can delete it if you don't like it but then why the default
02:22is in a factory setting I'm sure you have all these questions just like I do and that's what we're
02:27going to decode with some experts some cyber security experts on the program today not politicians we've
02:33heard them a lot but we'll listen in from those who know and understand the software more first up on
02:40the program let's take you to all the headlines at this hour
02:43after all over government Sanchar Saathi app directive the telecom minister now Mr. Sindhya says that app is
02:53optional and can be deleted netizens and oppositions label it Pegasus plus while Apple says it will oppose
03:01the order round two of the Sidharamaya DKS meeting it was in Bengaluru this morning on display were
03:10idli some nati chicken and a show of unity both natas then went on to assert that they are brothers
03:17and are working together I mean showdown over the SIR in parliament government has now agreed to hold a
03:2610-hour debate on electoral reforms next Tuesday
03:30Congress MP Renika Chaudhary now tooks another row after bringing a dog to parliament says
03:40his army is working under government pressure and is forced to praise them
03:44no permission for TKV chief Vijay to hold a roadshow in Puducherry not only for a public meeting on the
03:555th of December following the stampede if you'll remember and the tragedy that took so many lives
04:01in his crew rally
04:03turbulence has hit Air India once again one of the aircraft found to have flown multiple times without
04:14airworthiness certification Air India investigates the incident and has suspended the officials
04:20a big buzz over Imran Khan's health Pakistani media now reports his sister Uzma has been granted
04:30permission to meet him in the Adiyala jail
04:33Ranveer Singh has apologized after outrage over his Kantara mimicry actor says he wanted to just highlight
04:43Richard Reddy's performance his acting never meant to hurt sentiment
04:47Meanwhile relief for Durandar Mekas a censor board has cleared the film for release on the 5th of October
04:57classified it as a work of fiction
04:59and the Tilangana chief minister there Revant Reddy gets ready to welcome
05:07Mr. Messi seen training on pitch ahead of the clash with the urgent team legend
05:13The Sanchar Saathi app has triggered a full-blown showdown
05:24As the government pushes a new rule making the Sanchar Saathi app mandatory on every phone
05:29sold in India regardless of its making regardless of what company etc. it is
05:36Social media has gone into a full meltdown some users are calling it Pegasus 2.0
05:42Opposition leaders have dubbed it as Pegasus plus plus
05:46accusing the center of trying to pry open every corner of our digital lives
05:52That of course is political hyperbole but the directive itself is blunt sweeping and raising perfectly valid questions
06:02So what is the Sanchar Saathi app?
06:05What exactly will it do to your phone and mine?
06:08And why does the government want it pre-installed on every device, every phone that is sold in India?
06:17Let's break it down to you on what the government says
06:20Versus what the experts are telling us
06:22Number one on our list
06:23Now the government says it helps track, block and trace lost or stolen phones using the IMEI numbers
06:31stopping criminals from misusing device
06:33Now what are the experts saying?
06:36They are saying that the IMEI-based tracking, once centralized, could now become a powerful tool for state surveillance
06:44Allowing continuous monitoring of a user's phone
06:47Number two, what is the government saying?
06:50It lets users verify whether a handset is genuine
06:54Helping curb counterfeit and black market phones
06:57But the experts say that the mandate arrived without any public consultation
07:02Raising concerns about constitutionality, consent and the precedent it sets for government control over personal devices
07:11Number three, what does the government say?
07:15That the app shows you all mobile numbers issued in your name, preventing SIM misuse and identity fraud
07:21Quite valid, right?
07:23But the experts are saying what?
07:25They feel that providing this feature requires the app to access sensitive identity-linked data
07:31Creating fears that such information could be exaggerated as well
07:36It could be expanded as well or repurposed in ways users cannot even oversee
07:42Number four on our list
07:45What is the government saying?
07:46It lets citizens report suspicious calls, text messages and WhatsApp fraud
07:51Strengthening telecom cybersecurity
07:53But the expert view here is to do this, the app requests permission on SMS, on call logs, on notification access, on camera, on photos and on device identifiers
08:06Permissions that if misused or expanded could offer intrusive insight into your entire digital life
08:15You can't even imagine how
08:16Number five on our list
08:20What is the government saying?
08:20Government is saying pre-installing ensures maximum coverage
08:24And the app delivers real value only if it sits on every device from day one
08:31Which is why they've made it mandatory
08:33That's their rationale
08:34But again, what is the expert saying?
08:36That the government app forcibly placed on every phone creates a dangerous baseline
08:42Once mandatory, future updates could broaden functionality
08:47Normalizing deeper stake presence on personal devices
08:51What else is the government saying?
08:54Number six on our list
08:55Communications Minister Jyotirudit Sindhya actually clarified today
08:59After all, that backlash you heard is by right in the beginning of the program as well
09:03That's saying that, well, users can uninstall the app
09:05It has no role in snooping or spying
09:08It's up to you
09:08It's your discretion if you want to have the app on your phone or not
09:11But what are the experts saying on this one?
09:14That uninstalling doesn't address the core issue
09:17Should the state be empowered to force install software on every citizen's phone in the first place?
09:24Is that the norm internationally as well?
09:28Number seven, finally then, on our list
09:30What is the government saying?
09:31That the Sanchar Saathi is simply a cyber safety tool
09:35A shield against fraud, theft and telecom misuse
09:40But the experts then say
09:42That the concern isn't that
09:44The tool as it stands today
09:46It's the potential of scope creep tomorrow
09:50A mandated government-built app
09:53With sweeping permissions
09:55Could over time become a gateway
09:56To pervasive monitoring
09:58And that's the crux of the debate
10:01A tool designed for safety
10:05Or a precedent that reshapes digital privacy in India
10:09The country is now wrestling with one fundamental question really
10:14Where should the line be drawn
10:16Between security and surveillance potential?
10:22So those were the big pointers there
10:25What the government is saying
10:26And what about the experts at this point?
10:31Remember, it's not politicians bickering
10:33These are what experts are telling us
10:36Sanchar Saathi mobile app is a citizen-focused tool
10:43That brings security and fraud reporting straight to your smartphone
10:47Empowering users with safety and awareness
10:50Through the app, citizens can block lost or stolen phones
10:54And prevent misuse
10:55They can report frauds and scams via calls, SMS or WhatsApp
10:59Identify international calls masked as domestic
11:03And check if their handset is genuine
11:05The portal ensures transparency
11:07By letting people see how many mobile connections are issued in their name
11:11It also helps users check details of wireline internet providers across India
11:16The app is inclusive and accessible
11:20Available in Hindi and 21 regional languages
11:23On both Android and iOS
11:25Since its launch on 17th January 2025
11:29It has already crossed 50 lakh downloads
11:32From the Sanchar Saathi live dashboard
11:35Over 37.28 lakh stolen or lost devices have been blocked
11:39And more than 22.76 lakh traced successfully
11:43Sanchar Saathi is not just reducing telecom fraud
11:47It is reinforcing digital confidence
11:49And shaping a safer citizen-centric future
11:52For India's mobile users
11:54All right
11:57So that was just a little glimpse of what this app is all about
12:02But let's also tell you
12:03What the political bickering on all of this has been
12:07The entire two days of parliament
12:09This was a topic of discussion
12:11Here's a report
12:12With a wrap up on all the comments
12:14Sanchar Saathi mobile app
12:19Is a citizen-focused tool
12:20That brings security and fraud reporting straight to your smartphone
12:24Get ready
12:26Your smartphone is about to get a new companion
12:28The Sanchar Saathi app
12:30The Indian government has directed all phone makers in India
12:35To pre-install this app on every new device sold
12:38Companies are also urged to push the app to older phones
12:43Through software updates
12:44As per the government's directive
12:48Phone companies must ensure the app is pre-installed
12:51Easily visible and accessible
12:53From the very first moment you turn on your device
12:56The mobile manufacturers must ensure
12:59The app's functionalities are not disabled or restricted
13:02And there's a tight deadline
13:0490 days for installation
13:06With a compliance report due in 120 days
13:08From giants like Apple, Samsung and Vivo
13:11Reuters citing sources in Apple
13:15Said that Apple will not bow to the diktat
13:18And will not pre-load its phones with the app
13:20Apple is said to be planning to convey its concerns
13:23Directly to New Delhi
13:25The government says that this is about
13:29Protecting users from telecom fraud
13:31Duplicate IMEIs and cyber threats
13:34According to the government
13:36The Sanchar Saathi app allows users to block lost or stolen phones
13:40Verify if a device is genuine
13:42And also see all mobile numbers linked to their ID
13:46But there's a catch
13:49The app requires access to camera
13:52Call logs
13:53Phone status
13:55SMS
13:56And notifications
13:58Sparking privacy concerns
14:00Congress and allies slammed the move
14:03Calling it a potential snooping tool
14:05And warning it could compromise citizens' privacy
14:08It's a very fine line between
14:10Fraud is easy to report
14:12And we can see everything that every citizen of India is doing on their phone
14:16So that's not how it should work
14:19There should be an effective system to report fraud
14:22And we've discussed this
14:23At great lengths
14:25On cyber security
14:27And this and that
14:27And definitely there's a need for cyber security
14:30But that doesn't mean that it gives you an excuse to go into every citizen's telephone
14:34Koi bhi law
14:35Jahaan pe apke postal courier
14:37Sab mein taak taak ki jaa sakte
14:38In national security ke aad mein
14:40Waisayhi national security ke aad mein
14:41Journalists
14:42Patrkaroon pe pegasis ke through surveillance kera ya
14:45Opposition leaders pe state-sponsored surveillance kera ya
14:48Ab 140 karo logo pe surveillance kera na chara
14:50Ab aaker clarification isle de rehen
14:52Kyo ki Dejh samaj raha hai
14:53Kis tariqe se hi humare gharo mein ghuzkar
14:56Humare phono mein ghuzkar
14:57Ye janna chaate hai
14:58Ham kis se baat kera hai
14:59Kya baat kera hai
15:00Kaha out raha hai
15:01Kaha bait raha hai
15:02The government clarified that the app can be uninstalled
15:07Communications Minister Jyotiraditya Sindhya assured users
15:11There's no compulsion to keep it
15:13Ek tarah whip ka kichilla raha hai
15:15Kya aap fraud kya se roking
15:17Douseret taraf
15:19Agar sanchar saathi ke app
15:21Humne aap
15:22Aam nagriko dhe diya
15:24Toh kya raha hai pegasis
15:26Jho loog sathya nahi dhekhna chate hai
15:29Un loog ko hum sathya nahi dhekha sakti
15:30Jho loog suvidha istamal karna chate hai
15:33Woh karen
15:34Jho nahi karna chate hai
15:36Or delete karna chate hai
15:37Wohh delete karen
15:38Sanchar saathi cannot reach your personal data
15:42Cannot breach your personal data
15:44Message nahi sun sakti
15:45Call nahi sun sakti
15:46Personal data breach nahi kar sakti hai
15:49Uska ka kaam security provide karne ka hai
15:53Jho users hai unko woh security provide karegi
15:57Fraud ko rokne ka hai
15:59So the question remains
16:02Is Sanchar saathi a smart security buddy
16:05Or a digital watchdog
16:07Bureau report India Today
16:09Alright let's cut across to my colleague Cyrus now
16:16Who is the editor for emerging tech here at India Today
16:19Hi Cyrus
16:20I have a very technical question for you
16:22Apart from all the political bickering that has been going around
16:25Now when the government says that technically
16:28You can uninstall the app
16:30Now what does that mean
16:33Because if whatever we understand about data and tech
16:36It is that you can
16:37Your data is never gone
16:38It's always there
16:41It can always be retrieved
16:42It can always be accessed in some form or the other
16:45So does removing an app mean that all access has gone
16:50Because if I go back to what Pegasus was doing
16:52It was actually activating the phone on its own
16:55Recording on its own
16:57It was like a full time control on the phone
17:00Is it technically possible to do it on apps like these?
17:07Well Sonal first you need to consider what kind of application we are talking about
17:10For example let's first answer the first question about data being on the smartphone
17:15For example you install WhatsApp on your phone
17:18And you uninstall it after a couple of months
17:21The data that you downloaded via WhatsApp
17:24Could be images
17:25Could be audio notes
17:27Could be documents
17:28All of that data remains on your smartphone
17:31It doesn't go anywhere
17:32But WhatsApp has been uninstalled
17:35Right?
17:35Similarly for example
17:37There are certain applications
17:38That store certain credentials
17:40Into keychain encrypted passwords
17:42For example if you install an application
17:45But you decide you didn't like it
17:47And you will uninstall it after a few days
17:48After months you realize
17:51Okay I want that application back on my phone
17:53You install it again
17:54And then you will see
17:54The sign up procedure
17:56Is quite simpler than before
17:58Because some of the credentials
18:00That application needed
18:01Are already stored
18:02However in an encrypted manner
18:05So to say that
18:07The application is snooping
18:09There is only one way
18:10Third party sources
18:11Third party companies or organizations
18:13Will have to do a thorough review
18:15Of the Sanchar app
18:17In order for them to find out
18:18Whether it is actually snooping on your data
18:20Because in terms of permissions
18:21Yes it has access to your SMSs
18:25It has access to your call logs
18:26There would be certain documents
18:28That will need to be uploaded
18:29Via this Sanchar app
18:31And for that
18:32You will need to give it access to the camera
18:34So via the camera
18:36You will get access to the storage
18:37So certain amount of data access
18:39Will be yes available to Sanchar app
18:43However
18:44How on what level
18:46The kind of snooping it will enable
18:48It's something that only
18:49Totally depends on who's operating the app
18:51Also yes
18:52Because we need to understand
18:53What kind of encryption
18:54Is available on the data
18:56That is being
18:57Put through the application
18:59So like I said
19:00A third party entity
19:02Needs to intervene there
19:03And needs to really look at
19:04Whether there is actually
19:05A backdoor
19:06Within the app
19:07And whether it is really secured
19:09So that users
19:10Can put their personal data
19:11Over there
19:12The second question here
19:13Is on how much
19:15Can it really be applied
19:17We understand Apple has already said no
19:20And that was expected right
19:21Apple has said no
19:21To several other countries
19:22Where I think in North Korea
19:24One such app was introduced
19:26Or one such thing was introduced
19:28And they said no
19:29So we were expecting Apple
19:30To sort of say no here as well
19:32Can other companies as well
19:35Like Xiaomi
19:36Samsung
19:36What are you hearing from them
19:38And what is their reaction
19:39To this app
19:39So right now
19:41They haven't come out
19:42And said anything explicitly
19:43Against like installation
19:44Of certain applications
19:45However
19:46OEMs
19:49Mobile companies
19:49Do install certain apps
19:51Before they launch smartphones
19:52But there is a commercial aspect
19:54Involved over there
19:55Because
19:55They do get certain revenue
19:58From certain pre-installed applications
20:00However
20:00If the government approaches
20:02An OEM
20:03To install an application
20:04And do it
20:04I mean it's a directive
20:05That Android
20:06At least smartphones
20:07Can follow
20:08It's not going to be easy
20:09For iOS devices
20:11Specifically Apple devices
20:12Because
20:12They do not entertain
20:14Any sort of third party apps
20:16Within their ecosystem
20:17All of their applications
20:18Are installed
20:19From the software
20:21The OS version side
20:22So
20:22For Android
20:23It's relatively easier
20:25But
20:25Considering the fact
20:27That
20:27Apple has
20:28Come up and said
20:29Okay we are putting up or down
20:30We are not going to do it
20:31There is going to be
20:32A lot of pressure
20:33Among the other OEMs
20:34Also to
20:35Join this ecosystem
20:36And say
20:37Okay
20:37We might not comply
20:39However
20:40If there is a directive
20:41If the government
20:42Is playing hardball
20:43Then
20:43It will be interesting to see
20:45And for Apple
20:46It's very difficult to do it
20:47I don't think
20:48They are going to comply
20:49That easily
20:49Alright
20:50So that gives me
20:51One reason
20:52In our Apple vs Samsung debate
20:54That we will
20:54Sort of have
20:55Another day
20:56But
20:57That's a story
20:58For another time
20:58Thanks so much
20:59Cyrus for joining us
21:00With the very latest
21:01Thank you
21:02All right
21:05So that was our
21:06In-house expert
21:06Let's bring in
21:07Some cyber security
21:08Experts in this
21:09Conversation as well
21:10Joining me next
21:10Is Kanishk Gaur
21:11He is
21:12I technology expert
21:13Founder of
21:14India Future Foundation
21:15Also with us
21:16Is Dr. Pawan Duggal
21:17Advocate in Supreme Court
21:18Cyber crime
21:19Cyber security
21:20Law expert as well
21:21Kanishk to you first
21:23I was looking at
21:24What all access
21:26You have to give
21:27To the Sanchar Sati app
21:28And the list
21:29Is pretty baffling
21:31It says camera
21:32Permission required
21:34For camera
21:35That means
21:35All your pictures
21:36Photographs and videos
21:38It says call logs
21:39Also read all your
21:41Call history
21:42It says telephone
21:43That means
21:44IMEI number
21:45Network information
21:46It says SMSs
21:47Which have been sent
21:48And viewing messages
21:49As well
21:50Storage
21:51Flashlight permission
21:53Run foreground service
21:55Control vibration
21:57Run at
21:58Startup
21:58Auto start
21:59When the device
22:00Boosts
22:01Google play
22:01License check
22:02As well
22:03Full network access
22:05Connect to the network
22:06See wifi
22:06And mobile status
22:08And then another one
22:09Is keep device awake
22:11Now this is a long list
22:13My first question is
22:15Are all these things
22:16Required
22:17For security
22:19And just to ensure
22:21That you know
22:22Where your phone is
22:24Or perhaps
22:24If you lose it
22:26Or if perhaps
22:27There is
22:27You know
22:29Like a data
22:29Malfunction
22:30That happens
22:31Is all of this
22:32Required?
22:36I don't think
22:37So all of it
22:37Is required
22:38Because
22:40Access to your
22:42Phone's
22:42Pictures
22:43Access to
22:45What text messages
22:47Are being sent
22:48Or are being received
22:49I don't think
22:50So all of that
22:51Is required
22:51So this is
22:52Going back to
22:53Similar days
22:54When we had
22:54The COVID app
22:55Where due to
22:58Spread of COVID
22:59They wanted to
23:00Track location
23:01Of people
23:01Look at
23:02What are their
23:03Status on
23:04COVID
23:04So such
23:06Permissions
23:07Evade user
23:08Privacy and
23:09Trust
23:10Mind you
23:10We are trying
23:12To bring out
23:12The data
23:13Protection
23:13And DPDP
23:14Rule
23:14This would allow
23:16Government
23:16To pollate
23:17Data at a
23:18Mass level
23:19And this
23:19Organization
23:20Will then
23:21Again become
23:21A significant
23:22Data fiduciary
23:22The big
23:23Question is
23:24Will government
23:24Keep this
23:26Away from
23:27Compliant to
23:28Data protection
23:28Law by
23:30Making exceptions
23:31For the
23:32Department of
23:33Telecom
23:33Digital
23:33Technical
23:34Intelligence
23:34Unit
23:35Or would
23:36They be
23:36Subjected to
23:37The similar
23:38Data protection
23:38Norms as
23:40Significant data
23:41Fiduciary
23:41Because this is
23:42Large amount
23:43Of metadata
23:44Which will be
23:44Collected
23:45By this
23:46App
23:46And then
23:48Pre-installed
23:49App
23:49Come with
23:50A lot of
23:50Tracking
23:51Which could
23:51Be geolocation
23:52Tracking
23:52Which could
23:53Be used
23:54For surveillance
23:55As well
23:56So this is
23:57Coming out
23:58In a way
23:58That this
23:59Has become
23:59A mass
24:00Surveillance
24:00Tool
24:01Which the
24:02Government
24:02Can use
24:02So how
24:03Do you
24:03Keep it
24:04Independent
24:04Under what
24:06Regulatory
24:06Norms
24:07Would you
24:07Keep it
24:08Working
24:08Independently
24:09So the
24:09Government
24:09Does not
24:10Misuse it
24:11Against the
24:11Citizens
24:11Right
24:12For its
24:13Own interest
24:13Or how
24:15Do you
24:15Compare it
24:15To a
24:16Tool like
24:16Pegasus
24:17Which was
24:17Introduced in
24:18the past
24:19So you
24:20Have to
24:20Draw
24:20Boundaries
24:21Between
24:21Privacy
24:22Data
24:22Protection
24:23Versus
24:23Cyber
24:24Security
24:24That is
24:25Not clearly
24:26Coming out
24:26Right now
24:27Ideally
24:28There should
24:29Have been
24:29A public
24:29Consultation
24:30Before
24:30Government
24:30Making it
24:31De facto
24:31Right
24:34Let me
24:35Bring in
24:35Dr.
24:36Which has
24:36Not happened
24:36Right now
24:37Yeah
24:38Of course
24:38Mr.
24:39Dugal
24:40Now the
24:41Deal
24:41Now the deal
24:41Is that
24:42I have done
24:43So many
24:43Stories
24:43Here as
24:44Well
24:44On how
24:45Digital
24:45Frauds
24:46Are taking
24:46Place
24:47Left
24:47Right
24:47And
24:47Center
24:47The need
24:49For a
24:50Device
24:50Or perhaps
24:51A way
24:52In which
24:53Digital
24:53Frauds
24:54Can be
24:54Stopped
24:55Has never
24:55Been
24:56More
24:56So in
24:58A situation
24:59Like that
25:00My question
25:00To you
25:01Remains the
25:01Same
25:01Are all
25:03These
25:03Pre-installing
25:04The app
25:05Doing all
25:05Of this
25:06Necessary
25:06Is that
25:07The only
25:08Way to
25:09Give us
25:09Some
25:09Digital
25:10Protection
25:10I don't
25:13Think
25:13Pre-installing
25:14Apps
25:14Alone
25:15Is sufficient
25:15For giving
25:15Us
25:16Digital
25:16Protection
25:16We are
25:17All
25:17Our
25:18Own
25:18Digital
25:18Citizens
25:19Our
25:19Own
25:19Safeguards
25:20We'll
25:21Have to
25:21Take
25:21Each
25:21App
25:22On
25:22Its
25:22Own
25:22Terms
25:23Please
25:23Read
25:24The
25:24Terms
25:24And
25:24Conditions
25:25Privacy
25:25Policy
25:26Of each
25:26App
25:27Before
25:27Downloading
25:28It
25:28Please
25:29Look at
25:29The
25:29Permissions
25:29That
25:30You're
25:30Granting
25:30If the
25:31Permissions
25:31Are not
25:32Crucial
25:32Or
25:33Significant
25:33To the
25:34Main
25:34Area
25:34Of
25:34Operation
25:35Of
25:35The
25:35App
25:35Please
25:36Don't
25:36Download
25:37The
25:37App
25:37That's
25:37A
25:37Fundamental
25:38Stuff
25:38In the
25:39Post
25:39COVID-19
25:40Era
25:40We have
25:41To
25:41Realize
25:41The
25:41New
25:42Cyber
25:42World
25:43Order
25:43Has
25:43Come
25:43In
25:44The
25:44Golden
25:44Age
25:45Of
25:45Cyber
25:45Crime
25:45Has
25:46Also
25:46Arrived
25:47And
25:47It's
25:48Our
25:48Duty
25:48To
25:48Understand
25:49That
25:49Cyber
25:50Criminals
25:50Are
25:50Targeting
25:51Us
25:51With
25:51Fear
25:52And
25:52Panic
25:53In
25:53A
25:53Scenario
25:53Like
25:54This
25:54As
25:54States
25:54Are
25:55Becoming
25:55Very
25:55Powerful
25:56They're
25:56Increasingly
25:57Wanting
25:57Access
25:58To
25:58More
25:58And
25:58More
25:58Data
25:59In
25:59A
26:00Scenario
26:00Like
26:00This
26:00You
26:01Have
26:01To
26:01Make
26:01A
26:01Choices
26:01How
26:02Much
26:02Data
26:02You
26:03Want
26:03To
26:03Share
26:03With
26:03The
26:03Government
26:04And
26:04To
26:04What
26:05Extend
26:05So
26:05Please
26:06Reviewing
26:06The
26:06Terms
26:06And
26:07Specifically
26:07The
26:08Permissions
26:09That
26:09You
26:09For
26:10Any
26:10Apps
26:10Becomes
26:11Of
26:11Crucial
26:11Necessity
26:12To
26:12Determine
26:12Whether
26:13You
26:13Want
26:13The
26:13App
26:14Or
26:14Whether
26:14You
26:14Don't
26:14Want
26:15The
26:15App
26:16Ultimately
26:16Please
26:17Remember
26:17The
26:17Brahmastra
26:18Is
26:18In
26:18Your
26:18Hands
26:19The
26:19Brahmastra
26:20Is
26:20To
26:20Download
26:21Either
26:21Not
26:21Download
26:21The
26:22App
26:22Or
26:22Even
26:22If
26:23It's
26:23A
26:23Pre-installed
26:23App
26:24To
26:24Uninstall
26:24The
26:25App
26:25Because
26:25Your
26:25Privacy
26:26Is
26:26More
26:26Important
26:27Than
26:27Anything
26:27Else
26:28But
26:29Is
26:29Uninstalling
26:30The
26:30App
26:30Enough
26:30Which
26:31Is
26:40To
26:40Keep
26:40This
26:41Alleged
26:42Snooping
26:43Away
26:43Is
26:44That
26:44Possible
26:44Well
26:45I
26:45Think
26:46You
26:46Will
26:46Have
26:46To
26:46Wait
26:47And
26:47Watch
26:47To
26:47See
26:47How
26:47Things
26:48Actually
26:48Evolve
26:48Because
26:49The
26:50Sanjar
26:51Assaji
26:51App
26:51Says
26:51I'm
26:52Putting
26:52In
26:52Reasonable
26:52Security
26:53Practices
26:54And
26:54Procedures
26:54Which
26:55According
26:55To
26:56ISO
26:5627001
26:58Is
26:58The
26:59Mandated
26:59Mandate
27:00Under
27:00The
27:00IT
27:00Rules
27:012021
27:01But
27:02More
27:03Clarity
27:03Is
27:03Required
27:04Once
27:04We
27:04Have
27:04More
27:05Clarity
27:05From
27:05The
27:05Government
27:06As
27:06To
27:10Can
27:10Take
27:10A
27:11Well
27:11Informed
27:11Decision
27:12As
27:12To
27:12What
27:12They
27:13Need
27:13To
27:13Do
27:13Vis-a-vis
27:14This
27:14Particular
27:14App
27:14But
27:15Ultimately
27:15If
27:15You're
27:16Going
27:16To
27:16Be
27:16Careful
27:16If
27:40Is
27:40The
27:40Choice
27:40In
27:41Our
27:41Hand
27:41Because
27:42Look
27:42At
27:42Any
27:43Other
27:43App
27:43And
27:43Let
27:43Me
27:43Bring
27:44In
27:44Kanishk
27:44Also
27:45At
27:45This
27:45Point
27:46Is
27:46The
27:46Choice
27:46Really
27:47Ours
27:47Today
27:48Aren't
27:48All
27:49Apps
27:49Doing
27:49Exactly
27:50This
27:50Isn't
27:51Whatsapp
27:52In
27:52Access
27:52With
27:52Everything
27:53That
27:53I
27:53Do
27:53Isn't
27:54Google
27:54Isn't
27:56Every
27:56Little
27:56App
27:57That
27:57I
27:57Install
27:58To
27:58Maybe
27:59Scan
27:59My
28:00Documents
28:00Or
28:00Maybe
28:01Use
28:02A
28:02Printer
28:02Document
28:03Or
28:03Make
28:03Some
28:03Greeting
28:04Cards
28:04Or
28:04Invites
28:05Aren't
28:06All
28:06Apps
28:07Doing
28:07Exactly
28:08This
28:08We've
28:09Done
28:09Episodes
28:10Earlier
28:10As
28:10Well
28:10Kanishk
28:11And
28:11You
28:11Were
28:11Part
28:11Of
28:11That
28:11We
28:12Said
28:12That
28:12Listen
28:13Data
28:13Privacy
28:13Is
28:14A
28:14Myth
28:14We
28:15Live
28:15In
28:15Times
28:16Where
28:16You
28:16Simply
28:17Cannot
28:17Afford
28:17To
28:18Have
28:18Data
28:18Privacy
28:19And
28:19While
28:19Mr.
28:20Duggal
28:20Says
28:20Uninstall
28:21It
28:21Can
28:21We
28:21Imagine
28:22A
28:22Life
28:22Without
28:22Whatsapp
28:23Today
28:23Can
28:24We
28:24Imagine
28:24A
28:24Life
28:25Without
28:25Instagram
28:25Like
28:26I
28:27Don't
28:27Think
28:27That
28:27Is
28:28A
28:28Choice
28:28At
28:28All
28:29Kanishk
28:30See
28:34When
28:34You
28:34Are
28:35Installing
28:35Such
28:35Apps
28:36You
28:36Have
28:36To
28:37Assume
28:37That
28:38You
28:38Are
28:38Using
28:38Your
28:39Metadata
28:39And
28:39They
28:39Are
28:40Using
28:40It
28:41For
28:41Other
28:41Purposes
28:42The
28:43Bigger
28:43Issue
28:44That
28:44We
28:44Faces
28:45You
28:45Don't
28:45Have
28:45A
28:45Data
28:45Protection
28:46Law
28:46Which
28:46Has
28:46Been
28:47Implemented
28:47In
28:47The
28:48Country
28:48So
28:48You
28:49Have
28:49Not
28:49Taken
28:49Informed
28:50Consent
28:50From
28:51The
28:51Users
28:51So
28:52It's
28:52The
28:53Right
28:53Time
28:53That
28:53You
28:54Initiate
28:55The
28:55Swifter
28:56Implementation
28:56Of
28:57The
28:57Data
28:57Protection
28:57Bill
28:58So
28:58Whichever
28:59App
28:59Whether
28:59It
28:59Is
29:00Whatsapp
29:00Whether
29:00It
29:00Is
29:01Telegram
29:04Signal
29:04Or
29:05The
29:05Cyber
29:06Sathi
29:07App
29:08Has
29:09To
29:09Take
29:09Consent
29:10From
29:10Users
29:10And
29:11Inform
29:12The
29:12Users
29:12About
29:13The
29:13Permissions
29:13That
29:13It
29:14Is
29:14Obtaining
29:14And
29:15Also
29:15Have
29:16Reasonable
29:16Safeguards
29:17Built
29:17In
29:17So
29:18We
29:18Don't
29:18Know
29:18Right
29:18Now
29:18The
29:19Sanchar
29:19Sathi
29:19App
29:20What
29:20Is
29:20The
29:21Level
29:21Of
29:21Security
29:21Testing
29:22Been
29:22Done
29:22On
29:22This
29:23App
29:23How
29:23Secure
29:23Is
29:24This
29:24App
29:24Has
29:25Anyone
29:25Published
29:25A
29:25Report
29:26Independent
29:26Assessment
29:27Report
29:27Of
29:27The
29:28Sanchar
29:28Sathi
29:29App
29:29Has
29:30It
29:30Undergone
29:30A
29:30Certain
29:31Paneled
29:31Security
29:32Audit
29:32Has
29:33Government
29:33Own
29:33Agency
29:34Done
29:34A
29:34Security
29:34Audit
29:34Let's
29:35Assume
29:35It
29:51Leak
29:52Leak
29:52Massive
29:52Leak
29:52Has
29:53Happened
29:53I
29:53Don't
29:53Want
29:54To
29:54Propagate
29:54The
29:55Email
29:56ID
29:56Right
29:56Now
29:56Or
29:57The
29:57Website
29:57Right
29:57Now
29:58Where
29:58People
29:58Can
29:58Punch
29:59In
29:59Anybody's
29:59Name
30:00And
30:00You
30:00Get
30:00All
30:00Their
30:01Details
30:01Their
30:01Numbers
30:02All
30:02Of
30:02That
30:02That
30:03Is
30:03Also
30:03Out
30:03Every
30:04Day
30:04There
30:05Is
30:05A
30:05Data
30:05Breach
30:05That
30:06Is
30:06Taking
30:06Place
30:06Which
30:07Is
30:07Why
30:07Mr.
30:07Dugal
30:08I
30:08Am
30:08Trying
30:08To
30:08Understand
30:09Is
30:10The
30:11Fundamental
30:12Question
30:12Is
30:21Never
30:22Ahead
30:22And
30:23Thus
30:23It
30:23Makes
30:23It
30:23Very
30:24Dangerous
30:24I
30:25Think
30:26Governments
30:26By
30:26And
30:26Large
30:27Across
30:27The
30:27World
30:28Are
30:28Pretty
30:28Much
30:29In
30:29The
30:29Catch-Up
30:29Mode
30:29They
30:30Are
30:30Still
30:30Not
30:31Very
30:31Much
30:31Crewed
30:32Up
30:32On
30:32How
30:32To
30:32Deal
30:32With
30:33The
30:33Latest
30:33Trends
30:34Of
30:34Cyber
30:35Frauds
30:35More
30:36So
30:36Cyber
30:36Crime
30:37Is
30:37A
30:37Service
30:37Powered
30:38By
30:38Artificial
30:39Intelligence
30:39But
30:40We
30:40Are
30:40Not
30:40Alone
30:40But
30:41Still
30:41I
30:41Think
30:41Given
30:42The
30:42Humongous
30:43Volume
30:43Of
30:43The
30:44Population
30:44Of
30:44The
30:44Government
30:45Is
30:46Doing
30:46A
30:46Remarkable
30:46Job
30:47It
30:47Just
30:48Is
30:48That
30:48Cyber
30:48Criminals
30:48Are
30:49Far
30:49More
30:49Intelligent
30:49Far
30:50More
30:50Smarter
30:51And
30:51Far
30:51More
30:51Innovative
30:52So
30:52We
30:53Will
30:53Have
30:53To
30:53Constantly
30:54Keep
30:54On
30:54Enhancing
30:54The
30:55Capacity
30:55Building
30:56Capabilities
30:56Of
30:57The
30:57Governments
30:57To
30:58Keep
30:58On
30:58Updating
30:59Them
30:59About
30:59The
30:59Latest
31:00Trends
31:01On
31:01Cyber
31:01Crime
31:01In
31:02Order
31:02To
31:02Empower
31:03The
31:03Governments
31:05To
31:05Fight
31:06Cyber
31:06Crime
31:06As
31:07A
31:07Paradigm
31:07But
31:07That
31:08Part
31:08We
31:08Have
31:09To
31:09Educate
31:10The
31:10Users
31:10We
31:11Have
31:11To
31:11Sensitize
31:11Them
31:12That
31:12While
31:12The
31:13Government
31:13Comes
31:13In
31:13With
31:13Its
31:14Own
31:14Input
31:14While
31:14The
31:15Law
31:15Is
31:15There
31:15You
31:16Ultimately
31:16Have
31:16To
31:17Take
31:17Your
31:17Own
31:17Care
31:17You
31:18Have
31:18To
31:18Have
31:18Your
31:18Own
31:19Suraksha
31:19Kavach
31:20So
31:20That
31:20You
31:20Do
31:21That
31:22With
31:23Government
31:23Apps
31:24I'm
31:24Not
31:25Sure
31:25How
31:25It
31:25Works
31:25But
31:25Let
31:25Me
31:25Ask
31:26You
31:26A
31:26Simple
31:26Plain
31:27Question
31:27And
31:28That
31:28Goes
31:28To
31:29Both
31:29Dr.
31:29Pawan
31:30Dugal
31:30And
31:30Kanish
31:30Kaur
31:30Simple
31:31Question
31:31Do
31:32You
31:32Think
31:32This
31:32Is
31:32The
31:32Solution
31:33For
31:33Cyber
31:34Security
31:34In
31:35India
31:35Yes
31:36Or
31:36No
31:36Mr.
31:36Dugal
31:37First
31:37And
31:37Then
31:37Kanish
31:38Kaur
31:38Any
31:39State
31:40Sponsored
31:40App
31:41Is
31:41Not
31:42The
31:42Solution
31:42For
31:42Cyber
31:43Security
31:43We
31:43Have
31:43To
31:44Inculcate
31:44Cyber
31:44Security
31:45As
31:45A
31:45Culture
31:46Amongst
31:46All
31:47Stakeholders
31:48And
31:48Everybody
31:48Has
31:49To
31:49Contribute
31:49In
31:49Making
31:50The
31:50Ecosystem
31:50More
31:51Secure
31:51The
31:51Government
31:52Alone
31:52Cannot
31:52Do
31:52This
31:53Got
31:54It
31:54Kanishk
31:54Any
31:58Pre-Installed
31:58App
31:59Which
31:59Is
32:00Put
32:00Will
32:00Not
32:01Solve
32:01For
32:01The
32:01Larger
32:02Cyber
32:02Crimes
32:02Cyber
32:03Fraud
32:03Issues
32:03Of
32:03The
32:03Country
32:04If
32:05It
32:05Has
32:05To
32:05Be
32:05Done
32:06Through
32:07Building
32:07A
32:08Security
32:08Culture
32:09By
32:09Building
32:10It
32:10Cyber
32:10Security
32:10Awareness
32:11Security
32:11By
32:12Design
32:12Trust
32:12By
32:13Design
32:13This
32:13App
32:14Is
32:14Not
32:14Bringing
32:14Trust
32:15By
32:15Design
32:15Because
32:15The
32:16User
32:16Consent
32:16Has
32:17Not
32:17Taken
32:20It
32:20Has
32:21Been
32:21Imposed
32:21On
32:22The
32:22Users
32:22Without
32:23Proper
32:23Testing
32:24Of
32:24The
32:24App
32:24So
32:24I
32:25Don't
32:25Think
32:25So
32:25This
32:25Is
32:25Solving
32:26For
32:26The
32:26Issue
32:26Right
32:26Now
32:27Okay
32:28So
32:28Two
32:28Experts
32:28Both
32:29Saying
32:29This
32:29Is
32:29Not
32:30Solving
32:30For
32:30The
32:30Issue
32:30Right
32:31Now
32:31Last
32:31One
32:31Question
32:32That
32:32I
32:32Want
32:32To
32:32Ask
32:32Both
32:33Of
32:33You
32:33As
32:33Well
32:33Dr.
32:34Pawanthukul
32:34How
32:35Are
32:35Other
32:35Countries
32:36Fighting
32:36The
32:37Issue
32:37Cyber
32:38Security
32:38Is
32:50Corporate
32:51Sort
32:52Of
32:52Enterprises
32:53Dealing
32:53With
32:53It
32:54Well
32:55Every
32:55Country
32:56Is
32:56Adopting
32:56Its
32:56Own
32:56Methodology
32:57They
32:57Are
32:57Coming
32:58Up
32:58With
32:58Dedicated
32:58Laws
32:59On
32:59Cyber
32:59Security
33:00They
33:00Are
33:00Also
33:00Coming
33:01Up
33:01With
33:01National
33:01Cyber
33:02Security
33:02Policies
33:03They
33:03Are
33:03Going
33:03In
33:03For
33:04Extensive
33:04Capacity
33:06Building
33:06Programs
33:07And
33:07Ultimately
33:08They
33:08Are
33:08All
33:09Giving
33:10Trying
33:11To
33:11Protect
33:11The
33:11Critical
33:12Information
33:12Infrastructure
33:13So
33:14It
33:14Is
33:14A
33:14Mixed
33:14Bag
33:15Everybody
33:15Has
33:16Got
33:16Their
33:16Own
33:16Approaches
33:20Yes
33:20India
33:21Needs
33:21To
33:21Do
33:21Its
33:22Own
33:22Particular
33:22Strategy
33:23To
33:23Go
33:24Ahead
33:24And
33:24Protect
33:24Cyber
33:24Security
33:25More
33:25So
33:25When
33:26India
33:26Is
33:27Not
33:27Have
33:27Any
33:27Dedicated
33:27Law
33:28On
33:28Cyber
33:28Security
33:29Yet
33:29Dedicated
33:30Law
33:31That
33:31Seems
33:31To
33:31Be
33:31Something
33:32That
33:32Both
33:32Of
33:32You
33:32Have
33:32Been
33:32Highlighting
33:33That
33:33That's
33:33What's
33:34The
33:34Need
33:34Of
33:34The
33:34Hour
33:34That's
33:35What we
33:35Need
33:35To
33:36Get
33:36Into
33:36Not
33:37An
33:37App
33:37Which
33:38Is
33:38So
33:39Called
33:39Going
33:39To
33:40Fix
33:40It
33:40And
33:40Both
33:41Of
33:41You
33:41Are
33:41Saying
33:41It's
33:41Not
33:41Going
33:41To
33:41Fix
33:42It
33:42Then
33:42Kanishk
33:42What
33:43Will
33:43Get
33:44Down
33:44To
33:44What
33:45Is
33:45Required
33:46In
33:46The
33:46Cyber
33:46Security
33:47Law
33:47Right
33:48Now
33:48To
33:49Ensure
33:49That
33:49My
33:50Data
33:50Is
33:50Mine
33:51Not
33:52Google
33:52Not
33:53Instagram
33:53Not
33:54Whatsapp
33:55Not
33:56Even
33:56The
33:56Governments
33:56My
33:57Data
33:57Is
33:57Mine
33:58So
33:59Introduce
34:00The
34:01Personal
34:02Data
34:02Protection
34:02Bill
34:02And
34:03Make
34:04Minimum
34:04Exceptions
34:05To
34:05It
34:05The
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34:06Government
34:07Departments
34:07Which
34:07Have
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34:08Under
34:08Exception
34:09That
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34:10To
34:10Be
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34:13People
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34:14Right
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34:15The
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34:20The
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34:21Rights
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34:21People
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34:22They
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34:24An
34:24App
34:24Don't
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34:25It
34:25Mandatory
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34:27Privacy
34:28As
34:28A
34:28Culture
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34:30India
34:30Has
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34:38Doing
34:38It
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34:40That
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34:43Is
34:43A
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34:43That
34:44The
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34:44Is
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34:45The
34:46Fundamental
34:47Right
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34:47Indian
34:47Citizens
34:48Which
34:48Is
34:48Privacy
34:49Got
34:51It
34:51Kanishka
34:52Or
34:52Dr.
34:52Bhavandugal
34:53Thank
34:53You
34:53So
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34:53Both
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34:54Us
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34:54Your
34:55Perspective
34:55On
34:55This
34:55So
34:56Two
34:56Experts
34:56There
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34:57Verdict
34:57Is
34:57Pretty
34:58Solid
34:58The
35:00Verdict
35:00Is
35:00Simple
35:08The
35:08Phone
35:08Makers
35:09Apple
35:09For
35:09Example
35:09Has
35:10Already
35:10Come
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35:10To
35:10Say
35:11That
35:11They
35:11Will
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35:12Be
35:12Complying
35:13All
35:21Right
35:21Some
35:21Updates
35:21Coming
35:22In
35:22On
35:22The
35:23Winter
35:23Session
35:24Of
35:24Parliament
35:24This
35:25Is
35:25Day
35:25Two
35:25Remember
35:25And
35:26The
35:26Update
35:26At
35:26The
35:26Department
35:26Is
35:27That
35:27Ahead
35:28Of
35:28The
35:28Parliament
35:28Debate
35:29On
35:29Electoral
35:29Reform
35:30The
35:31Home
35:31Minister
35:31Mr.
35:32Amit
35:33Shah
35:33Has
35:33Chared
35:33A
35:33Key
35:34Meeting
35:34On
35:34Strategy
35:35For
35:35That
35:35Debate
35:36The
35:37President
35:37There
35:37For
35:38BJP
35:38President
35:39Nadda
35:39Union
35:40Minister
35:41Rajiju
35:41And
35:42Igwal
35:43Have
35:43Attended
35:44The
35:44Meeting
35:45And
35:45The
35:45Debate
35:45On
35:45Electoral
35:46Reform
35:46Will
35:48Be
35:49On
35:499th
35:49December
35:50Parliament
35:51Will
35:51Also
35:51Discuss
35:52One
35:52Day
35:52Matram
35:53On
35:538th
35:54December
35:56So
35:57A
35:58Full
35:58Strategy
35:59Has
36:00Been
36:01Formulated
36:01There
36:01By
36:02BJP
36:02On
36:03How
36:03This
36:03Debate
36:03Will
36:04Take
36:04Place
36:05They
36:05Are
36:05Discussing
36:06Electoral
36:07Reforms
36:07Fair
36:08Enough
36:08They
36:08Are
36:08Discussing
36:09Also
36:10Vande
36:10Mathram
36:11Fair
36:11Enough
36:12But
36:12Not
36:13The
36:13Issue
36:14Of
36:14Pollution
36:15Just
36:15Yet
36:16Let's
36:17Understand
36:17As
36:18To
36:19Why
36:19This
36:20Is
36:20The
36:20Reaction
36:20Coming
36:20In
36:20From
36:21Parliament
36:21To
36:23S.I.I.R.
36:24Where the SIR is, when the election reform will be held, the SIR will also be able to raise the SIR.
36:32Now, when we all are meeting, I believe that when the government will be held in the parliament,
36:39everyone will keep their own interests, and the government will keep their own interests.
36:47The country and the world will be clear in front of the country
36:52that the government will keep their own interests,
36:58because the election process is so important for people's leadership.
37:05And the truth should be good, everyone should believe.
37:08There should not be two methods.
37:13My colleague Ashwarya joins us for the latest on this story
37:17and much more on all the updates coming in from parliament.
37:20Ashwarya, so about eight hours on electoral reforms, about ten hours there on one day matram.
37:26I'll ask the same question I asked you yesterday as well.
37:29Is air pollution just not a priority for the government?
37:33It's not even been put on record?
37:35Not a mention made yet by the government?
37:37No mention yet, Sorrel.
37:43And this is what we are seeing at the moment happening.
37:46In fact, the opposition, especially Priyanka Gandhi,
37:48yesterday also she spoke about air, about what's happening in the national capital,
37:52also spoke about the fact that this is something that should be discussed on the floor of the parliament.
37:57And not just now, we have seen how in the all-party meeting also,
38:00this is something that most of the opposition parties spoke about.
38:03But the focus now clearly has shifted from air pollution
38:06to now what they want to speak about the SIR,
38:09the changes in the electoral roll that are happening.
38:11Even from the government's point of view, let me tell you,
38:13there was not even an inch of mention with regards to some of the things that should be brought to the table.
38:19The 14 bills that the government wants to bring about, they are not speaking about pollution,
38:23they are not even speaking about the measures that need to be taken.
38:26The Delhi government, however, from what I understand, Sorrel at the moment is looking at it,
38:30but nothing has been put in black and white.
38:32So at the moment, what we are seeing is that the air pollution is consistent,
38:36but unfortunately in the parliament, except some of the leaders coming out and making statements,
38:40I do not think that we will have a discussion on air pollution in days to come in the winter session.
38:45Wow. And this is when opposition also hasn't raised up the matter,
38:50hasn't really gone to town with it either, right?
38:52To be fair, to understand what's happening over there.
38:54But tell us a little bit more about the strategy that government has devised,
38:58who all will be the main speakers on both the debates on one day matram,
39:02like you said, and electoral reforms, because we are expecting counters to happen.
39:06So are we seeing the top brass of BJP step up and take questions here?
39:15Well, definitely, you know, Sonal, let me tell you one of the things that the government was very clear about since day one
39:20is that when the opposition told them that SIR is something that they want to speak about,
39:24the government said, we are not rejecting what you are saying.
39:26Just give us a little bit of a time to figure it out.
39:29How exactly can we have this debate?
39:31So it was a tit for tat that we saw the opposition doing protests that took place right outside the Makar Gdwar.
39:37Today, most of the opposition parties took part in that.
39:40SIR has been a core issue that parties like Samajwadi Party and TMC have often been speaking about.
39:45The vote-shuri campaign, which was done by the Congress party Rahul Gandhi at the forefront there.
39:50So we will have, you know, all those questions that Rahul Gandhi and the other leaders of opposition,
39:55they have been raising, all those will be asked.
39:58The government will respond to that. But yes, the government also had their way because on Monday,
40:05that's the day when they said that first we want to discuss what we have.
40:09So the 10 hours being given on Monday and 10 hours being given on Tuesday,
40:14the opposition believes that there are pertinent questions that they want to ask regarding the SIR.
40:18So that is something that has been given by the government.
40:20The top shots from the opposition as well as the government will be speaking on this.
40:24Prime Minister Sonal, from what I understand, will be speaking at least for an hour on Vande Maatram.
40:29So that is expected on Monday.
40:31All right. Then we leave it there for the moment, Aishwarya. Thank you so much for joining in.
40:39All right. And sticking with Parliament, winter session, like we just told you, is underway.
40:43Today is day two. Day one, let's tell you quickly what happened or what did not happen.
40:48Well, the House was tied up with protests. There were procedural interruptions as well.
40:51The opposition centered its demonstration on SIR.
40:54The result, adjournments, noise, but no structured debate, even on an issue that is as critical as pollution.
41:01For context, all of this, the entire winter session is happening right here in the national capital,
41:07sitting under a hazardous winter smog.
41:10Delhi's air is touching 400, 500 range in several pockets in recent days.
41:14A level at which doctors are consistently flagging serious health risks.
41:18The impact is visible. Reduce visibility.
41:21There is health advisories and the risk in also just life expectancy all throughout.
41:28Doesn't matter your gender. Doesn't matter what you do. Doesn't matter your age as well.
41:31Especially precarious for younger kids and older citizens as well.
41:36The rise in respiratory complaints have also gone up.
41:39And yet, the Indian parliament, national health, air emergency has not found a single mention yet.
41:48On the government side, the agenda reflects perhaps a mismatch in priorities.
41:53Ten hours of the house has been given formally allocated to one day matram. Fair enough.
41:59But not a single hour set aside for public health emergency unfolding right outside.
42:04That is also a priority ride.
42:08Who will talk about that?
42:10The opposition, on the other hand, is holding all party meetings.
42:14There is discussion going on on strategy.
42:16But what is the strategy on pollution?
42:20This gap is very, very hard to overlook because not very far from parliament and not very long ago.
42:27Let's put up those pictures as well.
42:29What was happening?
42:30Citizens, school children, parents, stood at Jantar Mantar asking for something as basic as clean air.
42:40They called in a matter of health and not politics.
42:44And the irony is hard to miss.
42:46The people of Delhi are asking for clean air.
42:49But their representatives still haven't found the time to discuss it.
42:54The demand is pretty simple.
42:57And it is clean air.
43:01And the question is even simpler.
43:03When will parliament take it up?
43:07Meanwhile, let's give you some updates on what the pollution figures are.
43:15This report comes to us from NOIDA.
43:18As NCR battles hazardous air, NOIDA has emerged as an epicenter of this pollution crisis.
43:24You must have seen and wondered why is it that NOIDA and Greater NOIDA are always worse than Delhi
43:29when we are pretty much in the same ecosystem, right?
43:32But behind government assurances lies a disturbing ground reality.
43:37Rampant violations, unchecked fires and rising health risks.
43:42India Today's Ground Reality Check exposes how these violations are worsening the air emergency, specifically in NOIDA.
43:50Take a look.
44:00While the entire national capital region has turned into a toxic gas chamber, NOIDA is battling the worst of the worst
44:07and has turned into NCI's pollution hotspot.
44:10Vehicular emissions, dust and waste burning have been identified as key contributors to this air disaster.
44:17But India Today's reality check in the Gautam-Buddhanagar region paints a more disturbing picture.
44:23A series of environmental violations continue unchecked despite government regulations.
44:29An RTI filed by activist Amit Kumar has revealed that the primary cause of rising air pollution in the district
44:38over 1,300 fire incidents in the last two years.
44:44I have filed an RTI with the fire department Gautam-Buddhanagar to know that how many fire incidents that we have reported
44:51for the burning of garbage and kabad etc.
44:55So the 589 incident has been reported till October 25.
44:59Garbage burning is also causing lots of pollution.
45:03So we just want to know the number that how many are there actually reported
45:07and how many get dose-off and what action they have taken on that.
45:12While the administration claims that pollution control measures are being followed,
45:19the ground reality reveals otherwise.
45:25Noida Extension, a rapidly growing region that should be a model of urban development,
45:30has instead become a haven for blatant violations of anti-pollution norms.
45:35Construction sites are found running without working water sprinklers
45:38and open burning of waste adds to the direct breach of graph norms.
45:43These projects sites are mandated to run these sprinklers.
45:48What these sprinklers do, they eventually settle the dust of the construction sites
45:53and make sure the dust doesn't go outside the ambient of the construction area
45:57to contain the dust pollution.
45:59There is one machine, there is another machine right next to that.
46:02All, I mean, just literally when I reached here, it was shut down.
46:06It is still shut down.
46:07And the person came out, though we are operating on and off,
46:10and I saw it could virtually, it could hardly last for a few seconds,
46:13and after a few seconds it literally collapsed down.
46:17To pile on, mechanical road sweepers were caught dumping street dust into open fields
46:21instead of authorized dumping sites.
46:23Residents say the situation has worsened in the past few weeks,
46:27with no monitoring from authorities.
46:30Burning is there, but not at that scale.
46:35But yeah, it is there.
46:36There are corners where people burn garbage.
46:39But the major is the road quality and dust emerging due to that.
46:45When do you burn the dirt?
46:46When do you burn the dirt?
46:47When do you burn the dirt?
46:48When do you burn the dirt?
46:49When do you burn the dirt?
46:50When do you burn the dirt?
46:51Yes, it is.
46:52It is a smell of dirt in the morning and the smell of dirt.
46:54The smell of dirt is also a problem in the nose.
46:59For thousands of families living in the area,
47:01the continuous exposure to dust and smoke is more than an inconvenience.
47:05It's a health hazard.
47:07Doctors in NOIDA have reported a sharp spike in chronic diseases
47:11and respiratory issues, especially in children and the elderly.
47:18The air pollution is very high.
47:20The air quality index is very pure.
47:23I am seeing lots of patients in my evening OPD,
47:26around eight to ten patients,
47:28they all are suffering from chronic lung disease or acute lung disease.
47:33Most vulnerable patients, they are the old age patients,
47:37the pregnant ladies, the child patients,
47:40the kids who are suffering from this.
47:43And what happens eventually,
47:44the victim are the elderly, the children, the women.
47:47We are the resident of NCR, Gautam, Budnagar,
47:49exponentially growing,
47:50one of the largest township,
47:52highly dense populated area just near the national capital.
47:55But when we see reality on the ground,
47:57totally the majors that have been mandated by the CAQM,
48:02the commission for air quality management to ensure air pollution is checked,
48:06are totally flouted here.
48:07In Twitter, NOIDA West with Nasir,
48:09I am Ashutosh Mishra for India Today.
48:11All right, so that's the ground reality here in NOIDA.
48:17Let me cut across to my colleague Milan now,
48:19joining us for the very latest on what's happening in Delhi and NCR overall.
48:24Milan, the ground report that we just showed tells us blatant violations that are going on.
48:29Forget Grab 3 and Grab 4,
48:31but I think the lesson from Mumbai really is to attack the hotspots, right?
48:35Is there any such strategy in the minds of CPCB,
48:40even the other bodies in Delhi to understand and attack the hotspots?
48:45Blanket bands, nobody really wants, right?
48:47But people want to address the hotspots
48:49because report after report is telling us that it is industrial waste.
48:54Report after report is telling us that it is vehicular pollution.
48:59These two need to be tackled.
49:02Well, Sonal, as regards to vehicular pollution,
49:05definitely the more congestion there is,
49:08the more jams there are,
49:10the more pollution there will be from vehicular emissions.
49:13And that is something that is backed by science.
49:15Even the CSE report says that.
49:17So these are internal sources of pollution.
49:19What we heard latest from the Delhi government is Rekha Gupta,
49:23the chief minister has said that we'll give about 10,000 heaters
49:27to people who burn wood for fire,
49:31because considering it's winter,
49:33and that is also known as an internal source of pollution
49:36within the urban city as well.
49:38So these are some of these measures that are being put forward by the government.
49:41But yet again, as you have mentioned,
49:43no bans, no traps,
49:45just clear long-term strategies are not really being looked at.
49:48There's a winter action plan that the Delhi government is also currently working on.
49:52I would say a little too late,
49:54because they should have actually started working on the winter action plan
49:57right before winter hits.
49:59We are at the precipice of the cold wave at the moment,
50:02and we are just about to enter into a cold wave.
50:04And it's going to be more difficult,
50:07because in the entire month of November,
50:09and we are at the end of it now in December,
50:11we have not seen one single day of respite
50:15where air quality was, you know, in a poor or in a satisfactory level.
50:20And that happens across Delhi NCR.
50:22Even in the report that was shown from NOIDA,
50:24internal sources of pollution, burning of biofuel, burning of garbage,
50:29burning of this biomass as well as traffic pollution
50:34is something that will need to be curbed on war footing.
50:36And for that something like a congestion tax was mooted years ago
50:41when we used to report on this, but nothing is being done right now.
50:44Even in cities where urban cities in central districts of the city,
50:50there is no stoppage on vehicles that enter each and every area.
50:54So more of this will need to be done in the long term.
50:57And meanwhile, also, even when the government is looking at air pollution,
51:01collective effort from the opposition will need to be put forward
51:04to actually bring about a concrete step there.
51:08Last, very quick question.
51:09What happened to cloud seeding?
51:11Has that been put on hold completely?
51:13Or is the government going to revise that plan?
51:15Well, Sonal, currently the cloud seeding has been put on hold completely,
51:19as you said, because of the very reason that there aren't clouds conducive enough
51:23to carry out that kind of experiment that was done in a knee-jerk,
51:26reaction by the Delhi government.
51:29Sure.
51:30All right, Milan.
51:31Thank you so much for keeping an eye out on that story.
51:34While we continuously bring you report after report on air pollution,
51:40a testimony after testimony from people who are leaving the city,
51:44doctors who are saying, leave if you can.
51:46Experts who are, you know, even artists who are now cancelling their concerts.
51:50Palash Sen, one of them, cancelled his concert in the national capital,
51:54saying it's too polluted.
51:55And yet, while the government is together forming policy,
52:00nobody really has bothered about air pollution.
52:03But we'll hope the story changes tomorrow.
52:05We'll keep our focus on it.
52:06For now, bye-bye.
52:07We'll see you again tomorrow.
52:08We'll see you again tomorrow.
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