- 1 hour ago
Gail Berman, Jerry Bruckheimer, Jonathan Wang, Kristie Macosko Krieger, Nate Moore, and Viola Davis joined The Hollywood Reporter to talk about their respective projects.
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00:00When I have a collaborator, the two things I look for is ability and bravery.
00:06The bravery of knowing that whatever is on this page, we're not going to water it down.
00:12We're going to keep it absolutely the way it is, and we're going to sell the shit out of this.
00:16I always brand it as like if a movie has umami, it's not sadness, sweetness, fear.
00:22It's this other thing that sticks to your bones, and you leave, and you're just like,
00:26sit, and you think about it forever.
00:28We think we know what we're doing. We really don't.
00:31I don't care who you are.
00:33If you say you just made a hit movie before it hits theaters, you're lying.
00:37Yeah, absolutely.
00:38Because you don't know.
00:58Welcome to the Hollywood Reporter's Producers' Roundtable. I'm Mia Galupo, and let's begin.
01:08The job of the producer is a little bit more nebulous than other jobs on set.
01:12You know, writer, actor, director. It's a little bit more self-explanatory.
01:16But producer is a little bit harder to define.
01:20Describe your jobs as a producer as if you were describing it to a five-year-old.
01:25Oh, Jonathan, you made the biggest face. That means I'm going to start with you.
01:29Well, it's just on my mind because I'm under construction on my house, and so I would say it's like a general contractor.
01:37You're going to hire vendors. You're going to communicate vision.
01:42You're going to make sure you're creative, logistics, all in one.
01:45So beat that, guys.
01:47Yeah.
01:47Nate, what about for you?
01:50Yeah, I mean, I think that's right.
01:51I actually use the contractor comparison a lot because it is about knowing the bigger vision of what you're trying to build without necessarily being an expert at any part of it.
02:00So I'm not going to hammer the nails.
02:01I'm not going to paint the walls, but I know what we're trying to achieve.
02:04And you're trying to get the best out of a group of people, ultimately, you know what I mean, between the director and the writer and the talent and your crew.
02:11And so a lot of it is just interpersonal skills, too, like drawing out their best so that the movie benefits.
02:16Yeah, to build the best house.
02:17I like to think of it as an idea person, as the person that generates a thought that then ultimately becomes something.
02:27And I think that as the leader of the ship in that respect, it's an exciting idea that motivates us to do exactly what you said.
02:39And sometimes that comes from the producer, and sometimes that comes from a piece of material.
02:43Sometimes it comes from an actor.
02:45But it's really taking that and running with it.
02:48Well, I don't know if I can expound on it, but I compare it to an interior designer.
02:54Because they have an overall vision and scope, objective of what they want.
03:00And then they find the curtains.
03:02They consult with the owner in terms of what they want, see if they're on the same.
03:09It's the ultimate collaborator, you know, and you may be the leader, but you're not in charge, you know.
03:17And I also compare it to Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption when he says, I'm the guy that they come to define things.
03:26The producer is Morgan Freeman in Shawshank Redemption.
03:35Jerry, I heard you agreeing with it when it came to something that they all said.
03:40Yeah, I'm going to embellish it a little bit.
03:42I think it's more like he's the builder.
03:44He's the builder, so he hires the architect.
03:47He hires the contractor.
03:49He hires the trades.
03:51And he's the one who builds the home.
03:54He has to go to the bank to get a loan.
03:56It's like you're building a complex.
03:58And you actually have to get the thing built.
04:00That's the hard part.
04:02Yes.
04:02But also, for me, the hardest part is always the architect, the person who's writing the screenplay.
04:11That is the one that's the thing we spent the most time on, at least we do, of anything else.
04:16And it really doesn't end until the movie's in the theater because you're always making alterations.
04:24Even on the dubbing stage, you're changing lines.
04:26You're bringing in writers to get funnier lines or change lines.
04:30It just never stops.
04:31And sometimes you stop it from going to the theater and, wait a second, something's wrong with Reel 3.
04:36We've got a sound problem.
04:38So it doesn't end until the audience sees the movie.
04:42Yeah, until you're sitting there.
04:43I think it's all of what everybody said, but it's creating an alchemy of all of those people and putting them all together and making sure that they all work very well together.
04:54And that you're making sure that everybody is getting along well.
04:57Everything is going the way it should go.
05:00The curtains are coming in on time.
05:02The plans are coming together.
05:03And everything's working out the way it should work out.
05:07And the movie gets in the theater.
05:09Yeah.
05:10I love the answers from Contractor to Morgan Freeman and Shawshank Redemption.
05:14We really hit it all.
05:17No, it's amazing.
05:17All of your movies were such feats in production.
05:22So now that you've all had a little bit of space from them, they've been in the theaters, they've come out.
05:29I'm wondering for each of you, what was the scariest moment for you on these projects and why?
05:36I think most people probably know what the scariest moment was in our project, which was when Warner Brothers picked up the phone and called me and said, Tom Hanks and Rita are both sick with the coronavirus.
05:51And it was a few days before we started shooting and it was a very frightening time for all of us.
06:02Nobody really knew what that meant.
06:04Were they going to be well?
06:06Well, what will happen?
06:09And they said, and you can't tell anybody.
06:12That's like the hardest thing anybody could ever say to me.
06:15But obviously I understood it.
06:17And a few hours later that became something the world found out about.
06:22And it was devastating on a lot of levels.
06:26But mostly the good news was that Tom and Rita were well.
06:31They ultimately got better.
06:32And, you know, it was very scary.
06:36And they were here with the first wave, which was the worst.
06:39And how far into production were you?
06:40We were five days out from starting.
06:43Five days out from starting.
06:45Wow.
06:46But that brought solace to a lot of people when I remember specifically when Tom Hanks got it, the world went, oh, this is real and we have to take it seriously.
06:54And so it was actually, even though it was scary to you, actually, I think, allowed a lot of people to take it seriously and really rise to the occasion.
07:01We shot for 38 days before, you know, we heard landfall of COVID in the U.S. in, I think, Seattle and New York.
07:09And we were, like, at our 35th day.
07:11And then it ramped up so fast that I had to make the decision to be like, oh, we're going to have to shut down this production.
07:19So that was one of the hardest things I've ever had to do.
07:22And so 38 days into the shoot, we shut down.
07:24And then the following Monday, the world shut down.
07:26So that was very scary.
07:28And we didn't know, are we going to be able to actually finish the shoot?
07:32Are we going to be able to get Michelle back in and finish out the, we only needed, like, three more days.
07:36But feeling this unknown, it was just so hard to process all of that.
07:41Well, we did shut down.
07:42Yes.
07:43We shut down for a month.
07:45And, you know, listen, with The Woman King, there was no precedent for anything before we did Woman King.
07:55You have a movie that's predominantly black female-led.
07:59There is no male lead.
08:01We're not in G-strings rolling down poles.
08:03We're in dirt, you know, not looking like sort of the bastion of male desirability.
08:10So here we are in South Africa shooting that it was supposed to be a few months.
08:15And then all of a sudden, more than 200 cast and crew come down with Omicron.
08:21And it was, happened rapidly.
08:23Like one day there would be two people, the next day 25, the next day, and it just started growing and growing until we just shut it down.
08:32And then it became apparent that it probably was not going to happen.
08:36Gina was terrified.
08:37You know, Gina Prince-Bythewood, I was terrified.
08:42And somehow, miraculously, we made it happen.
08:47And we were right into the fight scenes.
08:50You know, some of the major, I mean, listen, we trained for the fight scenes for three months, five hours a day.
08:58And, but miraculously, we made it happen.
09:03Had a little financial issues there.
09:05And then went back to shooting in the jungle after Omicron, you know, and sectioning people off, like hundreds of dancers, hundreds of fighters.
09:18I mean, you know, but.
09:20Like out of the frying pan and into the, into the jungle.
09:23Jerry, what about for you?
09:24What was the scariest part about Maverick?
09:28Well, it's always when it opens for me.
09:30We shot before COVID.
09:32So you spent, well, for us, it was 35 years between first movie and the sequel.
09:39So it's always, you put all this time, this energy into this.
09:43You have no idea if people are going to accept it.
09:46Because the audience walked into that movie with their arms folded like this.
09:51And they said, we love the first one.
09:53Come on, you just can't do any better.
09:55And then slowly, as the jets started taking off and they heard the music, their arms kind of went to their side.
10:02And then they got relaxed and enjoyed it.
10:05But that's always the scariest thing.
10:06You work so hard in these movies.
10:08And then you got to give birth to your baby.
10:13And it's not up to you anymore.
10:15It's up to the audience.
10:17And collectively, they're all geniuses.
10:18We think we know what we're doing.
10:20We really don't.
10:20And I don't care who you are, if you say you just made a hit movie before it hits the theaters, you're lying.
10:28Because you don't know.
10:31I've been on pictures where they tested through the roof.
10:35They were phenomenal, right?
10:37And nobody showed up.
10:39And that just happens.
10:41You just don't know.
10:42You really don't.
10:43You can have all the good intentions.
10:44You can have all the good press.
10:45Or you can have all the bad press.
10:47When we did Pirates, we had terrible press.
10:48How are you going to make a movie about a theme park ride?
10:53And then we go out and the picture is successful.
10:55So you just don't know.
10:57Incredible.
10:58Nate, what about for you?
11:00Yeah, look.
11:00I mean, it's no secret.
11:02Panther was a tough one to get to screen.
11:04But the scariest moment was actually when Tish got injured.
11:07So we were shooting some second unit work, some stunt work in Boston.
11:12And actually, the full crew was still in Atlantis.
11:14So I got a call in the middle of the night from the ambulance.
11:17And that is terrifying because it's not just about the movie at that point.
11:22That was about a person and a person I've known for years.
11:26And as a producer, you feel responsible for everybody in your crew.
11:28So you feel responsible for having her in that position in the first place.
11:33And picking up the pieces and figuring out the schedule was almost the easier part
11:38than figuring out how to get Tish's head right and to get her the help that she needed,
11:42both physically and mentally.
11:43Because that was a huge traumatic thing for her to go through.
11:47And to make her comfortable to come back and perform at the level that she was performing.
11:53You don't know if you're going to come back from that, to be quite honest.
11:55But she did.
11:56I mean, she's such a trooper.
11:57And I think gave a fantastic performance when she was able to get back.
12:01But as a moment, there was nothing scarier than getting that phone call.
12:05And Christy, I've seen you nodding along.
12:07Well, we shot in the middle of COVID, I guess.
12:10So there were vaccines.
12:12But you wake up every morning going, who has COVID today?
12:17And you go to bed every night going, how do we keep people safe from COVID tomorrow?
12:21And you just have to keep going.
12:23You have to keep going at the pace.
12:24And COVID makes life tough.
12:27But Hollywood has really adapted.
12:29I'm amazed.
12:30But it's really inspiring.
12:31Because if you think about, we all figured out how to do it.
12:35And we all did it individually, but collectively.
12:38And I think that we can use that as a model for the future to say, wow, we can solve some problems here in our industry.
12:44And lead, actually, from home base.
12:47As long as you have money, you can solve problems.
12:50Yeah, if you have the money and the desire to solve the problem, that's the thing, you know.
12:59And when it comes to making movies, I always say, everybody just wants to make the movie.
13:05Everybody just wants it to go.
13:06So they'll do anything to make that movie.
13:09There's too much money involved.
13:11So they'll figure it out.
13:12We're problem solvers anyway.
13:14Actors, you're a problem solver.
13:16And Viola, you've talked so much about getting this movie to the screen and all of the notes that you received prior to getting that yes, bringing it around to studios.
13:32What was that time like?
13:34What was the reasoning behind the nose?
13:36And how did you finally get that yes with you and your fellow producers?
13:40Okay, let me take a breath first.
13:46Here's the thing.
13:52When Maria Bello pitched the movie to me, when she gave me an award at the Skirball Center, and instead of giving me the award, she had the treatment for the movie, so she pitched it to the audience.
14:03Wouldn't you like to see Viola Davis and Woman King?
14:06Everybody cheered.
14:07And I was like, that's some bullshit.
14:09Because who's ever seen anything like that before?
14:13I certainly hadn't, I don't think up until that point, had been the lead in a movie.
14:19I was doing a TV show at the time.
14:21So to make a long, long story, very, very, very, very short, the reason why it's hard is because all of the characters are black females.
14:32There are no stars.
14:36There are no white male stars.
14:38There is no big black male star.
14:41There is not a sort of name in front of it that sets a precedent that it's going to make money, that it deserves to get a proper budget.
14:49So that's the first fight.
14:51You know, you're taking it to the studios going, we have an idea of a movie that's set in 1826 with me, Lashana Lynch, Sheila A. Tim, Tussauds and Beidou.
15:00And they're like, who?
15:02You know, so that's the first fight.
15:04And then the fight to get a budget with a movie with all these moving pieces.
15:09You have 700 extras, moving parts, the dancers, the hair, the crew, fighting for actors who haven't really, even though they're terrific, they haven't really done anything.
15:25They don't have the cue.
15:27And then you got to get a director that the studio approves.
15:31What big director is going to direct The Woman King?
15:34You're going to have a lot of great, great, really top white directors who are like, I don't want to touch that because, you know, I don't want to deal with, you know, the controversy of directing a predominantly black film.
15:46So we're not going to touch it.
15:48But we won't say we won't touch it yet.
15:50We'll say we're going to touch it because we don't want to be mean.
15:52And then that takes the longest time to go back to the director and get a definite no.
15:57And then you have to go to the directors who are available, who want to direct it, who can direct it, who are black.
16:03But they don't have the studio approval.
16:06So then you have to fight for that.
16:08And then, you know, everything is a fight.
16:13And I'll tell you the ultimate fight that really, I have to be honest, that goes up my ass.
16:19But I understand everybody has it hard, is you have a film, The Woman King, based on the Agogia tribe.
16:28And it's got to be test screened.
16:30And it's got to mean something to white males, white females, and black males.
16:37It doesn't matter if it's reaching 98% of black females.
16:41So how do you reach white males?
16:45Naniska is not going to have a G-string on, you know, or, you know, become Abilene in the help.
16:51You know, she's still going to be.
16:52So how do you reach the white male audience?
16:55And how do you make people feel like, if I can't reach the white male audience, it doesn't mean that the movie can't have some commercial value.
17:04That was a big thing.
17:08So everything was a fight.
17:10And then, like Jerry said, it's, and I'm so glad you said it, and then the movie comes out and you're like praying it works because of all the obstacles placed in front of it, you know.
17:25There is such a narrative out there that we can't lead a global box office, that we've never done it before, you know.
17:32And when you have that in your head, I'm serious, it's the fear of knowing that the movie, no matter what you put into a movie, it may or may not work.
17:42But on top of that, it's the feeling like, okay, if it doesn't work, there's no other black female that can do a movie after this and lead a global box office.
17:53So it takes on a larger responsibility.
17:56That's what I felt with The Woman King, the fact that it's landed, I'm glad that it's proven me wrong.
18:04I really do.
18:05I'm happy about that.
18:07Yeah.
18:07Yeah, it's like the anxiety on top of our already fear-inducing situation that is just making a movie.
18:13Absolutely.
18:14I mean, you had test screenings where people couldn't pronounce our names.
18:18Who's a Zogi or Nawi or Nanniska, you know, it's...
18:23Yeah.
18:23And so, do you change their names?
18:26Then you're changing the story, but anyway, yeah.
18:30But were you so thrilled, $19 million opening weekend?
18:34You must have been like, hot damn.
18:36Absolutely.
18:37Listen, I'm happy that we got it made.
18:39I'm grateful for Tom Rothman.
18:41I'm grateful for Nicole Brown.
18:43I'm grateful for anyone that gives a yes vote because those gatekeepers are people who, you just don't know the price you have to pay to get into the party.
18:54Yeah.
18:55You know what?
18:56It's interesting.
18:57You talk about all the trials and tribulations.
18:59We all went through that.
19:00All of us.
19:01Every one of us.
19:02But the reason the, what is it, five of us or six of us are here is because of the emotion in our movies.
19:09Yes, absolutely.
19:10That's why we're here.
19:11What a wonderful way to put it, John.
19:12That is the reason because it resonates with audiences in an emotional way.
19:17You know, all the things that, look at, she went through all these things, training.
19:21And we had our actors three months in different types of jets so they could handle the G forces.
19:27They were hammered in the first movie.
19:30Every one of them threw up except for Tom.
19:32We couldn't use any of the footage.
19:33So Tom designed something where they first started in a prop plane and they went to an aerobatic prop.
19:38Then they went to a jet and then they went into the F-18.
19:41And there was only one person that didn't throw up through the entire process.
19:47And that's Monica, our female.
19:49So, and all the rest of them, I mean, they were throwing up in the planes.
19:58They had to wipe their face.
19:59They had to, because the cameras were on.
20:01They were up there for up to two hours.
20:03Cameras were rolling.
20:04So they had to redo their makeup.
20:06They had to figure out where the sun is in the sky.
20:09And it's the actors doing that.
20:10These are the actors.
20:11So the actors were actually directing themselves.
20:13And when they came down, the director and Tom would look at the footage and say, go back up.
20:17And they're soaking wet and they have to change their clothes.
20:20They went through hell, just like you, just like your people.
20:24So we all go through this, but it's the emotion.
20:28It's what you feel about these characters when you walk out of the theater and what you made the audience feel.
20:33And that's why all of us here are here right now.
20:35Yeah.
20:35How do you get a studio on board for something like that?
20:41It definitely begats emotion, but there's a lot that goes into it.
20:45It's getting actors into planes.
20:47It's getting six cameras into a plane.
20:49How do you convince a studio that this is what's necessary to get that emotion?
20:53Well, you have a secret weapon called Tom Cruise.
20:55Yeah.
20:56I don't know if any of you work with him, but he's a force.
21:01Yeah.
21:02Well, he's a force of nature.
21:04I mean, he really is.
21:05Nobody cares more.
21:06Nobody works harder.
21:07And all of us work very hard.
21:08But he's so smart.
21:10He's worked with the best directors in the world through his career, through his 40-some years that he's been making movies.
21:16And he's a sponge.
21:18He absorbs it all and takes it in.
21:21And we were the beneficiaries of all that knowledge.
21:24Speaking of emotion, Christy, with the Fablemans, you're producing a movie, but in a way you're also producing a memory.
21:32It's based on Steven Spielberg's own life.
21:36I wanted to talk about one scene in particular, which is the final one in the movie, and one that he's talked about in his own life quite a bit.
21:44What was it like getting that together, you know, producing a moment that Steven had lived, but he is also directing now?
21:54What is that process like?
21:56And also finding someone to play John Ford?
21:58Yeah.
21:59I mean, it was getting John Ford.
22:00Like, who is going to play John Ford?
22:03And we couldn't figure it out.
22:06And Mark Harris, Tony Kushner's husband, said, how about David Lynch?
22:13And we all went, hmm, that's interesting.
22:16How about David Lynch?
22:17How about David Lynch?
22:19And so Steven called him on the phone, and he said, oh, no, thank you very much.
22:22I'm not interested.
22:23I'm not going to do that.
22:25And Steven said, okay, I'm going to call you back in two weeks, and you're going to let me know.
22:30And he said, well, I said I wasn't going to do it.
22:32And he said, no, I'm going to call you back in two weeks.
22:34And so then he called his friend, Steven called Laura Dern, who's friends with David Lynch, and Laura Dern went to David.
22:41Anyway, two weeks later, Steven picked up the phone.
22:45He said, okay, I'll do it.
22:47And he said, but I want to wear the costume.
22:50I want you to send me the costume.
22:51I'd like to wear it for two weeks before I shoot.
22:54So our costume designer sent his costume, put it on his doorstep.
22:58He put it on.
23:00We never saw him on set until the day he shot.
23:02He showed up in his costume.
23:04It was well worn.
23:06It was well worn.
23:08And then it was just really interesting watching Steven shoot David Lynch playing John Ford with Steven Spielberg, young Steven Spielberg, you know, having a conversation with him.
23:20And Steven, that's a well-known story that Steven has talked about for years and years.
23:24And to actually watch it on camera was something.
23:28Gail, your movie is obviously also about a very well-known public figure.
23:34How do you produce something that is about someone who is so well-known, but make it a story, make it a movie?
23:41Where was step one?
23:43Well, I think part of the problem was that he wasn't so well-known.
23:49Everybody had an image.
23:51Everybody had something to say about it.
23:53Everybody thought he was, you know, somebody from Vegas or somebody who didn't like this group of people or didn't like that group of people.
24:02But nobody knew the story.
24:05And when I went to see Baz about it, the idea wasn't to do Elvis.
24:13Let me be clear.
24:14The idea was Baz doing Elvis.
24:18That was the idea in my head.
24:20That was the idea I went to him with.
24:24And I thought, who could tell this story?
24:27Somebody who could look at the country as an outsider, and he's often done that.
24:32Somebody who knows how to make music a central part of their movies.
24:38And bring along a narrative that was in Baz's head.
24:46I didn't know it at the time, but once I sat with him, the first time I sat with him,
24:52he literally pitched out the movie to me.
24:56The movie that you saw in the theater was the movie he pitched me 10 years ago.
25:02And it was a remarkable story because it was a story about America.
25:10It was a story about this young man and his journey.
25:15And it was also a story told in what Baz would say was an Amadeus-like style with Elvis as Mozart,
25:25if you will, and as the colonel as Salieri.
25:29So there was a good guy and a bad guy.
25:32And that at the heart of the emotion of the story.
25:37So the good guy helps, they're both good guys at a certain point.
25:43They need each other.
25:44They find each other.
25:45And then one guy goes off and his background is a complicated background, the colonel.
25:55And that complication, that unknown factor, who is this guy?
26:03Where did he come from?
26:04What's he doing here?
26:06Why can't he travel?
26:08Why does he have a different name than, why doesn't he have a passport?
26:13And yet he's representing the biggest star in the world at the time.
26:19And so that story was the interesting way in Baz's mind and in my mind to tell this story.
26:27And of course, I got to partner with some of the great, I mean, you all know Baz as a director.
26:36And he's a wonderful, incredible director.
26:38But I got to see Baz as a producing partner, getting everything that needed to get done.
26:45It was wonderful.
26:48And it was incredible to watch.
26:50It sounds like you needed both sides, both Baz's on this movie specifically.
26:55Yes, we really did.
26:56I needed that sort of visionary filmmaker and the practical man about Australia who knew
27:05how to get a job done in Australia.
27:08And it was wonderful to be a part of that and to be his partner in it.
27:15Jonathan, everything, everywhere, all at once.
27:19My main question is just, how?
27:25But there are so many crazy, beautiful, interesting set pieces in this movie and sequences.
27:33And you're doing this all on a very tight budget.
27:36I just want to look at one just as a case study, Raccoon Cooey?
27:41Raccoon Cooey?
27:42Raccoon Cooey.
27:43Raccoon Cooey?
27:44Excuse me, I'm so sorry.
27:45Incorrect pronunciation.
27:46You should be sorry.
27:47I tried to.
27:48I rewatched the movie to try to get it right and still here I am.
27:53No, no, no, no problem.
27:54But for those who are unfamiliar, it's a take on Ratatouille, but with a raccoon who also
28:01happens to be voiced by Randy Newman, I believe.
28:07When you're reading that on the page, as a producer, how does something like that come
28:12to fruition?
28:14Well, I'll start by saying that the Raccoon Cooey character is an homage to my dad.
28:19So my dad's from Taiwan.
28:21And anyone who has Asian parents know that they are famously bad at movie titles.
28:26And so my favorite one of his is he said, let's go see Outside Good People Shooting.
28:34What do you guys think that movie is?
28:36Outside Good People?
28:38Good Will Hunting.
28:39Good Will Hunting.
28:40Wow.
28:41Wow.
28:46You are honorary Taiwanese now.
28:49So it was like an homage to Dan's mom, my dad.
28:54And because they would just butcher these movie titles.
28:56And so we thought it would be so funny, you know, raccoon-y.
28:59And then they loved the premise of the movie is that in the multiverse, everything exists.
29:04So if she thinks of a world where raccoons are puppeting a chef, which is the bizarro
29:10ratatouille, it exists.
29:11So we then can jump there.
29:13But to answer your question, the how, I love that you said if you have money, you can get
29:19things done.
29:20We had $14.3 million to make our movie.
29:23So we had no money.
29:24And so the way we did it was Daniels and I come from the Spike Jones, Michelle Gondry,
29:33and arguably the Jordan Peele kind of background where we had smaller scale.
29:38We could cut our teeth with our crew and learn a shorthand and put in our hours, you know,
29:44our 10,000 hours.
29:45So when, you know, we made Swiss Army Man for $3 million and then we made, when we got
29:51everything everywhere, it felt like a big amount relative to Swiss Army Man.
29:56But we still made everything everywhere like a music video.
29:59So we would often say quantity over quality for the set.
30:06So we would tell the production designer, you're going to go above and beyond, but we
30:09need a lot of them.
30:10We need to fly through thousands and thousands of sets.
30:12And it was kind of a training to let our crew who's so used to like covering their ass.
30:19And my grandpa said, if you, if you use both your hands to cover your ass, you can't get
30:23any work done.
30:24So we were just trying to let everyone be like, okay, calm down.
30:27We're going to sprint for these 38 shoot days and we're going to get all these universes
30:32and set it all up.
30:34And I think the, the biggest praise has to go to Michelle Yeoh, who I, I, I'm still staggered
30:40by how she could internalize the full multiverse, create the space to, you know, hold that emotion
30:47and then just punch us all in the heart with that, the power that she holds while just being so disoriented, you know, and without her tethering us back to the heart of the film that, that, as you said, the emotion of the film, it would have been a jumbled mess.
31:03And so, you know, it's really kudos to Michelle.
31:07Yeah.
31:08Speaking of hearts of films, I know, Nate, you had to go through a particularly difficult situation on Black Panther.
31:15Right.
31:16Yeah.
31:17I mean, you know, you know, you had to go through to Ryan Coogler talked about how they were being in the middle of scripting when you all found out.
31:20Yeah.
31:21About Chadwick's passing.
31:22You are mourning the loss of a talent and a person that you knew and had a relationship with.
31:28You were tasked with professionally, you know, making an entirely different movie.
31:33How do you, how did you navigate that time with yourself and the filmmakers?
31:37Yeah.
31:38Look, it was hard.
31:39We, you were, you know, we were in prep on a movie with T'Challa as the centerpiece and we had our crew on and we were, everything was virtual as mid pandemic.
31:47So we weren't in the same room ever.
31:49And, and Chadwick's passing was a surprise.
31:54And you have all the conversations you'd have when you lose anyone.
31:57Right.
31:58What do we do?
31:59How are we going to get through this?
32:00And we couldn't get through it together.
32:01We couldn't be in the same space and mourn him, which was.
32:05As many people experienced during that time, almost as bad, you know what I mean?
32:12And we had all the conversations you'd expect to have, like, should we even make this movie?
32:16You know, Ryan and I especially had grown really close to Chad over the years.
32:20And it felt weird to consider a movie without him because he was so much a part of that character.
32:26And building that character from the beginning, from Civil War, to be quite honest.
32:30And then we really thought about it and talked to Simone Bozeman, his wife, and, and sort of realized on our own and collectively that it would, Chad would have wanted us to continue.
32:41Right?
32:42Chad, I say this all the time.
32:43Like, he knew more than all of us what Wakanda could mean to people if we got it right the first time.
32:48You know, and that movie wasn't the easiest to make either.
32:50And there were times where Chad would come up to Ryan, who would sort of be in the dumps about any given thing and say, hey man, don't worry about it.
32:55This is our, this is our Star Wars.
32:57You don't understand.
32:58And Ryan would be like, what are you talking about?
33:00But I think Chad knew, you know, Chad was investing so much of his spiritual energy into that film.
33:05And to not have him in this film was terrifying.
33:08And that's why recasting also was never a consideration to be quite honest, because there is no one who would, we would be doing anybody disservice, frankly, to say, hey, stand in those shoes.
33:18You can't stand in those shoes.
33:19Yeah.
33:20That's not going to happen.
33:21So then it became a question of how do you reconceive a movie, but also keep the crew together.
33:26I think it's a credit to the crew who had all for the most part been with us on the first movie that they, they were really tight with each other.
33:32So even when we couldn't give them answers on to what the movie was going to be, because we didn't know we were finding it out, they continued to work on the things they did know.
33:40And the movie was big enough that it gave them plenty to do because we knew we were going to go to Talocan.
33:45We knew we wanted to create this underwater civilization inspired by Mayan myth that had to be designed and had to be created.
33:52And Ruth Carter had to make the costumes and Ludwig had found the sound.
33:55And all that stuff was happening while Ryan and Joe Robert Cole were recracking that movie with Shuri as the, as a protagonist.
34:01And then you have to have the conversations with the cast, right?
34:05Who again, Chadwick is an amazing person as well as performer.
34:09So there were all those relationships that found themselves at sea and, and Lupita felt a certain kind of way and Danaya felt a certain kind of way.
34:16And you had to make sure that everybody felt comfortable with the direction because we can't do it without the people on the screen.
34:22We are idea people, but we're not the people performing those ideas.
34:26Um, and the biggest lift was, was Leticia was, you know, here's a woman who I argue is one of the most talented actresses of her generation, but did not sign up to be the lead of this movie.
34:38Um, uh, didn't particularly want to be the lead of this movie, not because she didn't want to perform, but because that's a big responsibility.
34:44And these are big, big shoes, but she wanted to honor Chadwick with taking on this responsibility.
34:51So then we had to create a space for her and the cast to feel comfortable returning to this world without their North Star, create a space for the crew to continue to work while we figured out what we were going to do, create a space for Ryan, uh, who I still am not sure has had the space himself to mourn.
35:06Cause he also is such a great captain and such a collaborative person that he is invested in everybody's personal lives as well as their professional achievements.
35:16Um, and, and get it on time to get out in theaters.
35:20You know what I mean?
35:21And, and hopefully make a movie that, that as artists, we all could believe in, but also felt like something that audiences would want to embrace.
35:28Yeah.
35:29Because to Jerry's point, it doesn't matter if we love the movie.
35:31If the movie comes out and nobody likes it, we failed.
35:35Um, and you think you like something and you, and you, you know, I, I always think, and you guys I'm sure have a similar experience.
35:40Like when the crew feels really invested, you get a little comfort.
35:43Cause these are all people who watch movies too.
35:45So you go, Oh, well, look, there's a ticket buyer.
35:46There's a ticket buyer.
35:47Your craft service is a ticket buyer.
35:48Everybody's.
35:49Yeah.
35:50They're, they're, they're sort of, they're your beta test, even before a test screening of, of people who are excited.
35:56And that was a great scene.
35:57Or, you know, there's a, an amazing scene in the film where, where Queen Armando played by Angela Bassett fires, uh, Danai Gurira as a Koye.
36:05And I've been around a lot of crews and, and they're somewhat inured to great performances cause they get to see them so often, but it was a standing ovation because in the room you felt the energy and the crew goes, Oh, there's something special about this one.
36:19Um, and to try and, and harness that collective energy on a very, very long shoot is difficult.
36:25Uh, Ryan Coogler is, is such a, again, a fantastic leader of people and people were, had bought into what we wanted to try and achieve, which was to honor the man who we'd lost.
36:35To create a renewed sense of love for the world of Wakanda, to create this new world of Tala Khan with faces that don't always get to be seen on film, uh, for another population of people who needed it and hopefully to create a, uh, something that's entertaining.
36:48Yes.
36:49You are speaking so directly and beautifully about creative partnerships and all of you have had them, you know, whether it's Nate, you with Ryan Coogler, Jonathan, you with the Daniels or Christie.
37:03I know you plucked Spielberg right out of obscurity.
37:07Um, I, I am wondering, yeah.
37:12And Jerry, you with Tom Cruise and Tony Scott, there's just so many around this table.
37:16I am wondering when you find that creative partner, that creative collaborator you want to work with for the rest of your life.
37:24How do you know that?
37:25Is it something like love at first sight and situation or is it a more gradual process?
37:32Well, it's kind of, it's kind of show me.
37:34It's what it is.
37:36You work with people and you collaborate with them.
37:38And it's always about the work.
37:41Hollywood is so full of fantastic salesmen.
37:45And they can sit in a room where they're a writer or producer or director and spin you a tale.
37:50And when they got to put pen to paper, it's a whole different story.
37:54Yeah.
37:55And you find that out quickly.
37:56So when you find somebody who's really gives you something special, you want something special and interesting on that screen because you're competing, we're all competing against each other.
38:08And you want when your commercial come on or your trailer comes on, you have something that say, what, that looks unusual.
38:15I haven't seen that before.
38:16And I think all of you have done that in this room.
38:19And that's why you're here.
38:21It's because you created something that an audience looks at and says, I got to go see that.
38:26There's a reason I want to go see that.
38:27It's special.
38:29They have to leave their houses.
38:30And it's much harder now because there's so many good things on television that you have to compete with them, too.
38:37And then you have COVID sitting out there.
38:40You have all these diseases that people don't want to go to the theater.
38:44And the one thing that Top Gun and all of you have done is said, hey, it's safe to go and enjoy something in the theater.
38:51Well, Jerry, we were very happy that you were before us because it showed us the way that it could happen.
39:00We were so rooting for you from the sidelines because not only were we rooting for the business, you know, let's get people back in the theaters.
39:12But we knew that if adults wouldn't come to see our movie, it wouldn't be successful because we needed a more mature audience.
39:22We were hopeful that we would get a younger audience, too.
39:26But we knew we needed an adult audience.
39:28And would they come to the theater and see this movie as Baz wanted it to be seen on the big screen?
39:34Mm-hmm.
39:35And we were always grateful that you had gone before us and set the wave to say we can, people will come for something they want to see, for something that they are intrigued by.
39:51They will come.
39:52And I think, Viola, you found that, too.
39:55You build something that people are intrigued by.
39:58I mean, you guys, you know that.
40:00But we didn't.
40:02We were very, very unsure and we were hopeful.
40:08But Top Gun said to us, adults will come back to the theater and that's a good thing.
40:15And we found that initially our audience, which was older, hadn't been to the theater for two years.
40:23Mm-hmm.
40:24And that movie kind of drew them out and said, hey, it's safe to come and watch something and enjoy something and feel better.
40:31That's what it's all about.
40:33I was telling Jonathan earlier, Everything Everywhere Once was the first movie my wife and I saw post-pandemic because it was so different.
40:40Yes.
40:41You're right, Jerry.
40:42There's so much on TV that you see that is good, but it was so different.
40:45We were like, wait, we got to see, what is this?
40:47What is this movie?
40:48And that got us out of the house.
40:50Right.
40:51It was, we got to see what this is all about.
40:53And we were so pleasantly surprised and in awe of the film because it's so clever and so emotional.
40:59So it is this kind of big entertainment.
41:01It's so fresh.
41:02It's so fresh.
41:03I mean, it was amazing.
41:04And we'd never seen that before.
41:06It was shocking to see how many people throughout this process have come up and said, you know, I was thinking about getting a divorce.
41:12And we were fighting in the car on our way to the theater.
41:16We watched your movie.
41:17We're not going to get a divorce.
41:19Or someone who said.
41:20Wow.
41:21Yeah.
41:22Mending marriages.
41:23Crazy.
41:24I mean.
41:25That's been changing lives.
41:26Yeah.
41:27It's not even being hyperbolic.
41:28Like the amount of people who came up to us crying after a screening.
41:31It's almost like I'm not equipped to be a therapist, but I'm having to console someone to say, you know, I see you and I'm with you in this.
41:38And we all are experiencing our trauma.
41:40And I think we all left this COVID period with this collective trauma.
41:44And then we get to go see The Woman King.
41:46We get to go see our movie and we get to see all of our films and just have this emotional catharsis.
41:52And you'd see tweets like, that was two years of free therapy.
41:56Thank you so much.
41:57And there's something true about what we do is that it gives us that other world to just escape to, to kind of process our feelings.
42:04And it's very, very special.
42:06You know, it's supposed to be what we do.
42:09That's what I will add to that.
42:11Uta Hagen, the famous acting teacher, said the mark of any great art, whether it be theater, whether it be film, is that when you walk into the theater, you have a human experience.
42:23And no matter what, listen, all of these films right here, like you said, Jerry, they moved people emotionally.
42:31Collectively, they moved people.
42:32But no matter what, if you walk into a studio and say, for instance, you are an wonderful actor who is disabled, but has a really great story.
42:45Or you're a woman of a certain size and age and you're a dark skinned black woman and you have a great story that you think is going to be universal.
42:56Selling that story in the room is really hard, even if the nucleus of that story is one that is what every human being feels.
43:07You're going to have a hard time selling it because of the player.
43:12And so I say that to say that when I have a collaborator, the two things I look for is ability and bravery.
43:22The bravery of knowing that whatever is on this page, we're not going to water it down.
43:28We're not going to hustle.
43:30We're not going to bother.
43:31We're going to keep it absolutely the way it is.
43:34And we're going to sell the shit out of this.
43:36We're going to ride this shit into the ground until we that's my husband.
43:40We are going to ride this into the ground until we get a yes.
43:44Because at the end of the day, it's like the reason why I fell in love with acting is because I fell in love with Arthur Miller.
43:54That was my first.
43:55And then August Wilson, because Arthur Miller said the reason why I write is because I want people to feel less alone.
44:02I did the woman king because of the mother daughter relationship.
44:09The women who were recovering from or healing from sexual assault.
44:15I felt like that part of the story was timeless.
44:18And to have collaborators like my husband, like Dana Stevens, like Gina Prince-Bythewood.
44:24You have to when you when you are creating art, you have to be a warrior because you have to live with fear.
44:31You probably have to lead with pain.
44:33You're going to have the imposter syndrome.
44:34I don't care what anyone says.
44:36The imposter syndrome does not go away.
44:39Just like the little scars on the violinist and the viola players at Juilliard.
44:44You know, they did not go away.
44:45You knew that they were violinists and they played the viola based on the big callous scars they had on their necks.
44:53That did not go away.
44:54That's part of what does not go away.
44:57Creating any sense of art is rejection, imposter syndrome, fear, the fear that it's not going to work.
45:05The fear that, oh, maybe they're right.
45:07You know, in order for it to be commercial, blah, blah, blah.
45:09Maybe we should just cut that character out, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
45:13I look for bravery all the time.
45:17That bravery because I'm one of those people I don't want to go to my grave saying I wasn't brave enough.
45:23And for me, you know, The Woman King was just a really, really bold move only because you're working with a bunch of actors.
45:32You're working with a bunch of actresses who's always been told that they're ugly and they don't matter.
45:42Okay.
45:43And then all of a sudden you have to create a film where the beauty of the film is in the heart of it.
45:50In an industry that is so visual, that is so, you know, you know, committed to white male lead sometimes.
46:00So I need, I need bravery with my collaborators.
46:04You need the buy-in so that way the audience sees it.
46:07So that way the audience has a chance to see what you're seeing.
46:09Absolutely, because truth is bravery.
46:12And a lot of times we don't get truth on that screen.
46:15We don't.
46:16We get watered down truth because if it's too honest sometimes, we're afraid that that person who's drinking that Diet Coke, Sour Patch Kids and Popcorn is going to get up and leave.
46:27It's too much truth for a Saturday night.
46:30Okay.
46:31But when you really go for it, which I think this is the reason why we're all here.
46:35When you really go for it, that is a sweet spark.
46:39Feels like church.
46:40Yeah.
46:41Feels like healing.
46:42Yeah.
46:43Feels like you've been shifted.
46:46All of you have made these movies that have inspired this emotion and it's because of this, this bravery that you all were able to make these, these films.
46:59I am, I am wondering for each of you, what was the movie that made you want to make movies?
47:07You want to go?
47:09I mean, mine's not going to be too serious.
47:11It was The Goonies.
47:12It is The Goonies.
47:17It is The Goonies.
47:20It is a movie that transports you to a different place and you go, oh I want to do that for someone else.
47:26You know, and that's, that can come in a lot of different sizes.
47:30But for me as a kid, I wanted to go to Astoria.
47:32Like I wanted to find a pirate ship.
47:34I wanted to find Sloth.
47:35I wanted to have those friends.
47:36I wanted to have data.
47:37Like to, and, and as an adult, and as I showed that movie to anybody that would listen, like, it's like, how do I recreate that with anything that I'm getting to do?
47:46Serious or not, to be able to transport people in that theater where the lights are down and you can take them anywhere.
47:52That's pretty special, but it, but it was, yeah, it was The Goonies.
47:56And thank God Data's back.
47:57That's right.
48:01Yeah.
48:02I, I, I think for me, Daniels and I joke about this, like I, I always brand it as like, if a movie has umami, it's not, it's not sadness, sweetness, you know, fear.
48:13It's this other thing that sticks to your bones and you leave and you're just like sit and you think about it forever.
48:19Um, and for me it was eternal sunshine and the spot was mine.
48:22And I, and I left there and I really realized, I was like, oh, the things I do, the way that I act, it actively pushes me away from the things I love the most.
48:32And that from a movie, I was like, oh, if I can do that.
48:37Cause at the time I was a musician, I was like, I can't do that as a musician, but if I could do that on the screen, now that's something really powerful.
48:44And then I, I decided to shift my career as a result of, of that experience of just feeling it.
48:50So that deep umami that I got from that movie.
48:54Yeah.
48:55Wow.
48:56I love the umami.
48:57You know, I'm going to take the question and, and veer off into my experience, which is, um, a little bit different than everybody else's.
49:05I think when I was a child, I, um, I spent a lot of time alone and I watched, uh, something in New York.
49:14They had, uh, something called a million dollar movie and it was on every day.
49:19I could tell you that town without pity is a movie that I saw maybe 40 times.
49:24Now, no child at nine years old was watching town without pity.
49:28You gotta trust me on that.
49:29But, uh, for me, my, my start was a constant, constant view of film.
49:39I, I learned everything I know almost from watching a constant supply of movies on television.
49:51It changed everything for me.
49:53Every melodrama that I watched at four o'clock in the afternoon when I got out of school that would come on after Another World, I watched them every single day.
50:04And I saw, I, I saw great acting.
50:07I saw terrible acting.
50:08I saw storytelling that moved me.
50:11And I saw storytelling that was scary because it was like, oh my God, this is film noir and this is this.
50:17And I, I learned all of it from my couch in Belmore, Long Island, New York, and no one, you know, not in film school, not like that.
50:26But I, by the time I get to college, I know more about it than mostly anybody I, I encountered.
50:34Yeah.
50:35It's an education unto itself.
50:36Right.
50:37Well, I, I love all the John Hughes films.
50:39Those were for me, you know, my childhood.
50:41And, and I loved to have John Hughes create great comedy, but great characters that you care about and feel.
50:50And, and these characters are memorable and they're, you know, what we aspire to when we make all of our films are just great characters that you can rely on.
51:00And that, that make you feel something that you wouldn't ordinarily feel.
51:05Yeah.
51:06He had such a way of doing that.
51:08He really did.
51:09He really did.
51:10Yeah.
51:11Viola, I know you mentioned Arthur Miller being your gateway into acting, but what about for, for cinema, for film?
51:17Oh, there's so many.
51:18Yeah.
51:19Well, um, cause I was going to say, you know, autobiography of Ms. Jane Pittman, Jane, changed my life.
51:26Of course a television show.
51:27It's just television.
51:28It was a mini series.
51:29It was, it was when they did mini series like on television.
51:34And, and the reason why is because once again, it was a TV set in a dilapidated apartment that we lived in, that was infested with rats, lived in abject poverty.
51:46It was a TV that didn't work on top of that was a TV that did work with aluminum foil on it.
51:53So you can get the right, you know, uh, so you didn't get all the little, you know, the bars on the television.
52:01And it was there that I saw autobiography of Ms. Jane Pittman.
52:05And the reason I'm speaking as an actor, um, it shifted me.
52:12It just did.
52:13It changed Viola.
52:15It made me go to a place in my imagination where I could be anything.
52:20I didn't know that that existed.
52:22I thought that the world put a stamp on you and that's exactly who you were.
52:26And all of a sudden I saw the magic of transformation with acting.
52:31I saw a woman transformed from 18 to 109.
52:34And there was something about that that made me feel like, isn't it a great profession where you can become a totally different human being.
52:45And be applauded for it and look like me.
52:50I thought it was pretty badass.
52:53Do you know what I'm saying?
52:54And I think it's the magic of what we do as artists.
52:57The magic of what we do as artists is this transformational for not just us who are playing, but for the audience who's watching.
53:07It can heal people.
53:09That's what it did for me watching Miss Tyson.
53:12Yeah.
53:13Yeah.
53:14Me?
53:15I'm the last one.
53:16Yeah.
53:17I think I'm the oldest too here.
53:19Not by much.
53:20Sure.
53:21It's, uh, it was always about character and it was Bridge on the River Kwai.
53:27David Lean is somebody that I just thought he was, he was a master visualist, master storyteller.
53:33All his movies were all character driven.
53:36Dr. Zhivago.
53:39I mean, just beautiful films that he made and Alec Guinness and Bridge on the River Kwai was an amazing performance and really moved you.
53:48And Lawrence of Arabia, another fantastic movie.
53:51What a great, I mean, that's why you went to the theater.
53:55You wanted to see these big character driven dramas on that big screen in worlds that you're not a part of, that we give you a ride in.
54:05When I went to Lawrence of Arabia, I got a program in the movie theater for Lawrence of Arabia.
54:11It was beautiful, large program that I had for many, many years.
54:15It was so beautiful to look at because it was an amazing movie.
54:20It was amazing movie.
54:21It's like a moment and, and a movie.
54:24I'm fairly confident in saying that many future filmmakers will be citing your movies as the reason that they're going into movie making as well.
54:35Thank you so much for coming and sharing all of your experiences.
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