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Kosovo’s former president Atifete Jahjaga shares her journey from police leadership to the first female head of state, and why she continues to champion justice for survivors of wartime sexual violence.
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00:00Hello, I'm Cynthia Eung. You are tuned in to our One Year Review.
00:13Joining me on the show today is someone very special from the Republic of Kosovo.
00:19Now, the country is Europe's youngest state, gaining independence in 2008.
00:24And then, three years later, Atifete Yayaga made history as Kosovo's first female president at the tender age of 36 years old.
00:36She led for five years, pushing for reform, for recognition and dignity for war crime survivors.
00:45And this is something very interesting while she leads the country and also the country going through healing from the shadows of the conflict in the past.
00:55So, it is an absolute honor and pleasure to have you on the show today, Atifete.
00:59Thank you so much for doing this.
01:00Thank you, Cynthia. It's such a pleasure to be with you today, to be able to share this interview together.
01:05First of all, welcome back to Kuala Lumpur.
01:08You're here for a visit centered on women and leadership at the WE 2025 Future in Motion Conference.
01:17I imagine you have met many women with multiple responsibilities on their shoulders, running companies, running political organizations, entire households, for instance.
01:29Let's just start with that.
01:30From your conversations with them, what are some of the commonalities that you find women facing here and women back in Kosovo?
01:38Well, Cynthia, it's such a pleasure to have this interview again with you.
01:43And before I go to your question, I just want to express my deepest thanks and gratitude on the behalf of all people of Kosovo
01:56and Kosovo's institutions to Malaysian people and to the institutions of Malaysia that they have always stood with and beside the people of Kosovo
02:12and the sacrifice of our country in every stage that our country has gone through during the civil resistance time, during the war time and during the aftermath of the war,
02:30during the process of rebuilding and reconstruing our country.
02:36I want also to express my deepest thanks and gratitude that Malaysia was one of the first countries that has contributed with their peacekeeping troops
02:47within the United Nations mission in Kosovo for peacekeeping operation.
02:53Malaysia in 2008 was among the very first countries in this part of the world which has recognized the independence of Kosovo by opening your liaison office in Prisina,
03:06which I had an honor and privilege cooperating and collaborating in all of my capacities.
03:13And now going back to your question, Cynthia, and despite the fact that we are living almost in the heart of Europe that you have opening today this interview,
03:26or as far as here in Malaysia, unfortunately women do face with the same obstacles, with the same challenges, with double standards,
03:38and still we are living in the world that one out of three women is the subject of the violence,
03:44being that domestic violence or from their immediate partner physical or psychological violence.
03:53still in the 21st century of women of having sexual violence, of the trafficking, of limited legal protection, of unequal access into the education,
04:08into the market, into the political level underrepresented, we still can count in our fingers the women to be the heads of states and the heads of the governments,
04:21even in the ministerial level, even in the ministerial level, not speaking into the parliament level.
04:27As a matter of fact Kosovo is one of the best examples in the region because we were one of the very first countries which have introduced quota
04:36when we regard of the women representation across the board and a couple of actually almost two decades after the quota representation.
04:46We have today over 40% of the women representation into the parliament of our country.
04:53And then work discrimination, digital inequality, that then is online harassment and all the way down to the challenges of the climate change
05:03for the lack of the women and the access of the clean water, access to the health services and others.
05:11So we go from one extreme to another extreme and all of us as a women being in that part of the world or this part of the world,
05:20we face with the same challenges.
05:23But it makes a difference when you have a woman in the leadership position, the way that they address certain things,
05:34which I always say that we understand the challenges and needs and requirements of our people differently.
05:44We place a much more of the heart and the empathy on our style of leadership that brings up in a different perspective into the process of the decision making.
06:00And the margins of the mistakes are much lesser for the women.
06:04I don't want to sound more offensive for the male colleagues, but we women, and it has been actually shown statistically and the global level,
06:17when you have women into the leadership position, when you have the women into the negotiation table,
06:22these agreements or these decisions are prone to last much longer than for the other statistics that has been shown so far.
06:32You mentioned empathy. It was something that I had wanted to talk to you about because it's not easy to lead with empathy while showing strength,
06:41especially in public office, because empathy is sometimes also mistaken as weakness.
06:47So for you as a leader and the president of a country, what were some of the challenges you had to face that you may feel that may not,
06:58maybe the standards were different for you compared to anyone else?
07:02Cynthia's standards are always different. And that's why I mentioned at the very beginning that they apply different standards for women,
07:14or even expectation by the general public, for women leader than for the man leader.
07:21When you have women into the leadership position, things take a different perspective.
07:42Why say that? Because in general, sometimes applies also to our own gender.
07:49Leaders have a tendency to see things, I refer from the windows of the offices, or from the windows of their armed vehicles,
08:02or planes, or other forms of the privileges under brackets that office offers you, or the position offers you.
08:14I found myself many times, or most of the time, that I tried and I went out of this environment and talked directly to the people,
08:32went to the people, went to the rural area, entered inside the house of the people,
08:38talked to the people directly, talked to the women directly, talked to the youth directly,
08:44talked to the marginalized communities, members of other ethnic communities in the country,
08:50understanding from the country, understanding from the first hand, not from the reports or the statistics which were provided or served into my table.
09:00But I wanted to feel directly, touch it, understand it.
09:05You directly grew up with it. Absolutely.
09:08You grew up in former Yugoslavia during the conflict.
09:12You studied law, became, served in the police force, became a deputy director general before becoming president.
09:19I need to point that out because that is absolutely impressive.
09:22How did that experience shape you?
09:26Going back to what you said, it's really about, when you talk about leading a country, it's about building trust,
09:30and building trust is going to the people.
09:32I belong to a generation, despite the fact that I was elected at my 35 years of age as the president of the country,
09:42and only after 20 days I become 36 years old.
09:48I belong to the generation that we were banned from the rights of education,
09:54from the rights of health services, even from the rights of living as the proper human being from the Milosevic regime in our country.
10:06Twenty-six years ago, Cynthia, we have inherited a country which has been totally destroyed,
10:12as you have mentioned in the very beginning, left behind over 13,000 people killed and massacrated.
10:19Till today's day we have over 1,600 people missing in different massive graves,
10:25from the age of the 70 years old men and women and up to even an unborn child or two years old or just six months old baby.
10:35Same time facing with the denial of our northern neighbor of Serbia,
10:39to share the data, statistics, where the remains of our loved ones are.
10:45Inherited a country which has left behind an estimated number of 20,000 women and men raped during the wartime,
10:53where rape has been used as a tool of war during the wartime in Kosovo.
10:59I belong to the generation that I had to hide myself going from one collocation to another in order to have the education for myself.
11:13I grew up in the system when we've seen the uniform.
11:18We have not seen there an individual or institution which is there to help you, to rescue you, to protect you,
11:26but every time we've seen the uniform we were terrified because we've seen the torturing, we've seen beating, imprisonment and killing.
11:36That's why immediately after the end of the war I want to join to this organization which we once feared of,
11:43to contribute on changing the mindset of our people that we are building an organization that is there to serve you, to protect you, to be in your service.
11:58That an organization that once we feared to be an organization that is there to protect you.
12:05And on top of that to introduce the gender role within the organization which was quite male dominated before 26 years ago.
12:17And so, which has enriched me and given me more opportunity to be out with my community, to understand the needs of my community from the different lenses.
12:32Which was actually an added value when I became the head of state in my process of the decision making.
12:40That I really knew it from the first hand, the needs and requirements.
12:46And that you mentioned the word of the inclusiveness that I refer very often that in my process of the decision making I have extended that table of the decision making
13:00and added more chairs to everyone who has been for far too long left outside of the process of the decision making.
13:09At the same time they have been affected by our process of the decision making for women, for youth, for other ethnic community groups and for the marginalized communities.
13:23I wanted to offer that platform for them to express their needs and demands.
13:29So, my process of the decision making would be easier even though it was my responsibility to take that on.
13:37What I found fascinating about Kosovo is I think two-thirds of the population are under the ages of 35.
13:44Yes.
13:45Under the age of 28 actually.
13:4728.
13:48Okay.
13:49This is a generation that may not have lived through the conflict.
13:53Some did.
13:54But they are living with the outcome, the effects of the conflict on institution, on the economy.
14:01How do you view Kosovo now and what does it need in terms to move forward?
14:06Just to add another layer to that question.
14:08Kosovo of course is part of Europe now and being a small state.
14:11How do you forge an identity while healing from this as a small nation but you have big ambitions?
14:21Well, as you mentioned Kosovo's geographical position is almost in the heart of Europe.
14:31We are an aspiring country with a very clear agenda towards the EU integration, towards the NATO integration or as we refer towards the Atlantic integration.
14:44Predominantly as you mentioned which I always referred so proudly.
14:49I used to belong to that group before but I don't belong to that group anymore.
14:54That is 61% of the population are under the age of the 30 or 28 beautiful young boys and girls of Kosovo, of all ethnic groups living in Kosovo.
15:08I always refer to them as the biggest capital of our country.
15:14That they are shining not only inside Kosovo but at the global level as well.
15:20And Kosovo is the land, the birth land of the Dua Lipa, of Rita Ora, of our Judist golden medals and all the way down to the footballers and basketballers which are known regionally and the global level as well.
15:44And so the opportunities are given to all boys and girls of our country.
15:53And as you mentioned we have suffered a lot but by the constitution of Kosovo we have granted equal rights and obligation to all citizens of our country.
16:07Despite of their ethnic or religious background.
16:12And yes indeed we have suffered a lot and we do know the price of peace and independence and the liberty of our country.
16:23It would be unfair neither in Kosovo case, neither in Bosnia or any country around the world that has gone through a terrible war, ethnic cleansing or the genocide.
16:34To be able to forget our past but we need to forgive in order to move forward.
16:41One of the main preconditions of the forgiveness is the justice.
16:46And justice unfortunately is not in the level we are supposed to be particularly in Kosovo.
16:53So there is still so much room to be improvement when we speak about the justice to be served for the old war crimes that were committed towards the innocent Albanian people of Kosovo.
17:10But despite that fact we are building a generation which we refer as the young Europeans because these are the young people of Kosovo.
17:19One of the very notable parts of your presidency was that your decision to give voice to survivors of sexual war crimes during the Kosovo war.
17:29You mentioned 20,000 women raped. I think about 1,000 men were raped as well during the war.
17:36Many people in your country wanted to keep the subject quiet. It was an open wound but also a taboo.
17:42Why was it so important for you to give voice to these victims?
17:48Cynthia it's very true and every time that I speak about the survivors of sexual violence for no reason I become very emotional because I am a woman myself.
18:04I was in my early twenties during the war time in Kosovo.
18:12I went through the war in Kosovo.
18:16I know deep in our heart what we have gone through during these years.
18:24It could happen to me. It could happen to me. It could happen to my mom. It could happen to every one of us.
18:34To our shame as the people of Kosovo being that for because of our mentality because of our norms in that part of the region.
18:50We kept this topic as a taboo topic while we have taken all of our institutional and social obligation towards all categories that came out of the war for the war martyrs, for veterans and others.
19:11Somehow we kept aside the survivors of sexual violence, pointing the fingers unjustly towards them that it's your fault that this happened.
19:32Instead of pointing the fingers towards the perpetrators of this horrendous crime.
19:39Towards the police, military and paramilitary troops of the Milosevic regime.
19:45Because it was directed by the state of the Milosevic regime that rape to be used as a tool of war.
19:55Again 20,000 estimated number of survivors of the sexual violence innocent women and men of Kosovo of age 70, 60, 50 and up to 5 years old, 7 years old or 11 years old young girls.
20:16Cynthia, I personally met thousands of them throughout Kosovo.
20:26I met a mother that she was raped exactly the same day with her three daughters.
20:33I met a woman that she was six months pregnant.
20:38That she miscarried exactly that day and she could never ever realize her dream of being a mother again.
20:51And that was the reason why I made one of my top priorities, even though that was not my constitutional obligation.
21:00As a woman of that country, it was my moral obligation to not leave even a stone unturned for their voice to be heard.
21:13For the first time in the history of the world, with a presidential decree, was established the National Council for the Survivors of Sexual Violence.
21:23Which was a turning point, not only for the survivors themselves, because you are probably hearing me, I'm not using the term victim.
21:36I'm using the survivor.
21:37Yeah.
21:38Because every person that has gone through this, and they were able to live it through, for me they are survivors.
21:46They are not victims anymore.
21:48Yeah.
21:49The UN woman considers Kosovo one of the best living example.
21:58The way that we led, starting, even though a little bit late, twelve years after the end of the war.
22:09Today we are the best global example.
22:13That presidential decree was established, the National Council for the Survivors of Sexual Violence.
22:18By opening the chapter to change the law, and amend the law on the war values, adding the survivors of sexual violence as the civilian victims of the war.
22:29Protecting their identity throughout the process, because that was one of the preconditions of the survivors, as the main request of the survivors, to protect their identity.
22:38And I feel them, I know that.
22:40To open the chapter for rehabilitation, reintegration, resocialization, access to the free medical services, and access to the justice.
22:49Do you feel...
22:50Cynthia, as we speak today, we can count it in two hands, the number of the cases which were preceded to the court,
23:01for moving forward on addressing this long-term culture of impunity.
23:13Probably you will ask me why.
23:16Because of the lack of the cooperation by Serbia.
23:22Okay.
23:23To cooperate, neither with institutions of Kosovo, or international community,
23:28to hand over the perpetrators of these horrendous crimes.
23:32Because we know all of them, survivors know all of them, who they are.
23:36And they're still living in this society.
23:38They are still living.
23:39They are probably leading, and they are leading the major institutions within Serbia.
23:43Do you think your country can heal and move forward without addressing this dark aspect of your history?
23:50Right.
23:51Right.
23:52That's why I mentioned earlier that one of the preconditions of moving forward, of flipping the page,
24:05is justice to be brought in place.
24:09Yeah.
24:10Cindy, I do know that out of my countless of discussion and talks,
24:16that there's not even a single day within a week, every time that I'm in my country.
24:20My staff is a witness of that.
24:22That there's not one survivor from one part of the country or the other, that they come to my office,
24:28or I have to go and travel, go to their villages and meet with them.
24:32And after hours and talks, and I ask them, what I can do more for you?
24:38Do you know what is the only thing that comes out of their mouth?
24:45There is no money in this world that can pay what we have gone through.
24:52Every time that we turn the light off and we try to go to sleep, this sin comes back to us.
25:01We have no life anymore.
25:04The only thing that brings the peace in our heart and minds is when we see the perpetrators facing with injustice.
25:14And for 26 years, Cynthia, we haven't seen that to the satisfactory level.
25:21And there's not enough international pressure towards Serbia to hand over the perpetrators of these horrendous crimes.
25:33And rape is continued being used as a weapon of war in other parts of the world.
25:36We are witnessing every day. We are seeing in Ukraine. We are seeing in Gaza and other parts of the world.
25:41A promise that I made to them that I will not leave even a stone unturned,
25:48until their voice will be heard from one corner of the world to the other,
25:56which I am doing today, which I have done yesterday at the one-in-one TED Talk with TJ.
26:03When I ask them what we can do more and what they need is just an ear to listen to their needs,
26:20a voice to the voiceless, to speak in their behalf, and people who can act on their behalf.
26:33And I call upon you and other women around the world to be their voice,
26:40to be their needed demand for the justice to bring the perpetrators in the place where they're supposed to be.
26:56We have the survivors of the survivors, even from the First World War, Second World War,
27:07even in this part of the world, that they are still suffering from the consequences of this tool of war.
27:17In my term as the president, I did a survey about the generational trauma related to the sexual violence.
27:27I have to say that statistics shows that is being passed between four to six generations.
27:38That is an alarming message to all of the global leaders, to ask themselves, to ask ourselves,
27:50when is the time to act? Because history will not forgive us.
28:08There's no idea.
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