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00:00Hal Steinbrenner, owner of the New York Yankees, made some comments yesterday about Yankees
00:05payroll, which has enraged a lot of Yankees fans, as always, when you mention payroll
00:10and Hal Steinbrenner.
00:11And we're here to break it down today with Ryan Garcia from Empire Sports Media and Fireside
00:16Yankees.
00:17Ryan, how are you doing today, sir?
00:19I'm doing well.
00:20It's a short week.
00:21Got a couple of off days coming up.
00:23Can't complain, man.
00:24Yeah, listen, you can't complain.
00:25It's Thanksgiving week.
00:26It's Turkey week.
00:27Listen, our owner here, Hal Steinbrenner, as Yankee fan yourself, me as well, he never
00:34fails to provide content for us, especially when he does actually speak to the media.
00:39And I thought, you know, yesterday's comments were pretty interesting.
00:43I loved seeing fans go back and forth about, you know, the $100 million he pays to the city
00:49of New York every year.
00:50And we're not a profitable business as the New York Yankees, even though they're reportedly
00:54making the most revenue in all of baseball.
00:57But look, no one's going to cry for Hal Steinbrenner and how much money he is or isn't making.
01:03The bottom line is this team has not won a World Series in 15 going on 16 years now.
01:09So I want to get your perspective and what you thought Hal was talking about yesterday
01:15in two things.
01:17Saying that, would it be ideal to lower payroll?
01:20Of course, because we saw the reports that the Yankees want to keep that payroll in the
01:25$300 million range or even less.
01:28And the other thing I wanted to get your thoughts on, if a salary cap, which seems that Hal is
01:34supporting in the future for CBA talks, if that happens, how that would affect the Yankees'
01:40competitive balance.
01:41So I just want to hear your thoughts on those two things.
01:44Yeah.
01:44So the first in regard to the ideal of being able to lower the payroll, look, I get that
01:50anyone would want to win a World Series championship spending as little money as possible.
01:54But I think in the Yankee scenario and Hal even to an extent admitted this, they can't
01:58really afford to lower payroll and remain as good of a team, if not better than they
02:02were last season.
02:03They already have $283 million committed to the payroll.
02:07They're probably going to want to add another outfielder.
02:08They want to add to their pitching staff.
02:10They're going to have to push pretty comfortably over the $300 million mark if they truly want
02:14to build a roster they think is capable of winning a World Series.
02:18And on the second note, with the Yankees and their situation right now, I don't know if
02:22the salary cap is going to hurt them as bad if the salary cap is around $360 or $370 million.
02:28I guess that number is where it hurts their competitive balance.
02:31The other question is, how high is the floor?
02:33I see a lot of discourse of setting the floor around like $140 or $150 million.
02:37But realistically, what is that changing?
02:39Is an extra $30 million going to make the Pirates a good team?
02:43Probably not.
02:43So in regards to the cap, it's got to be a high cap for the Yankees to not lose their
02:47competitive edge.
02:49It's got to be a range where the Dodgers have to spend less, but the Yankees wouldn't
02:52have to spend less as well in that scenario.
02:54Yeah, I completely agree with you.
02:56And I just, I find it funny that the owner of the Yankees is in support of a salary cap.
03:02Like, you're pigeonholing yourself, and you're making it harder for you to build a winner.
03:08You're the New York Yankees.
03:09You have the most revenue.
03:10You're the biggest franchise you can argue in the sporting world, right?
03:14You're an iconic thing.
03:16And to abuse, not abuse that superpower as much as they can, and use those resources feels
03:23funny.
03:23It feels like they're trying to act like a small market ball club where we're heavy on
03:28analytics, we're heavy on our approach of scouting and development, which mind you, I am fine
03:32with, but you're not using your biggest superpower, which is money and how you can take that, take
03:38advantage of that.
03:39So let's go right into the big question of with house comments.
03:43Does this mean that the Yankees could be affected now that Trent Grisham did accept the qualifying
03:48offer at 22 million, the re-signing of Cody Bellinger, does this put them out of the price
03:53range for Cody Bellinger's future?
03:55I think the Yankees will still pretty aggressively pursue Cody Bellinger and will make an offer
04:02that I think will have a good chance of bringing him back.
04:04The way I evaluate Bellinger's market is that his profile is best suited for Yankee Stadium.
04:10So if your teams, and we kind of talk about how teams come about signing players, they
04:14have their internal evaluations.
04:15They determine at what price point that player is worth.
04:18They put together these offers.
04:19The likelihood of a team having an internal valuation that Cody Bellinger will produce a
04:24higher OPS with them than with the Yankees is 0%.
04:27Like there's no chance the Mets, for example, think Bellinger will perform as well with them
04:31as Bellinger would with the Yankees.
04:33So I do expect that the Yankees will have one of the best offers on the table just because
04:38the fit is so good with Bellinger's swing here.
04:40And if he were not a Yankee, he would likely produce less offensive value.
04:44I don't think house comments change where I stand on what they'll do or what I think they'll
04:49do.
04:49It just serves as kind of this, oh, really, did you have to like sometimes when he talks,
04:54it's just, I don't really want to hear it.
04:55As you alluded to at the beginning of the show, most Yankee fans are just average individuals
05:00in the United States.
05:01No one wants to hear about like a billionaire's lack of profit on the most valuable sports
05:06franchise in baseball.
05:08Like no one wants to hear that.
05:09I don't want to hear that.
05:10No one wants to hear that.
05:11So it's optics bad, but I don't think it's something that I'm taking practically as this is
05:15going to affect their roster.
05:16OK, I mean, that's one way to look at it.
05:19And I agree with you.
05:20You're saying it's not going to affect.
05:21But I think for me, I'm taking those comments to heart where it's like how clearly wants
05:26to lower the payroll.
05:26He doesn't want to spend as much and it could affect their their chances of resigning a
05:31Cody Bellinger.
05:32I also think and I wanted to get your thoughts on this.
05:34The Cody Bellinger market, you're saying the Yankees probably have a higher value on him
05:38because of the Yankee Stadium.
05:39But other teams might value the defense that he brings, the versatility that he can play
05:44multiple positions.
05:46And I think the bottom line is I'm getting funny feelings about this Cody Bellinger free
05:52agent market.
05:52It's reminding me a lot of the DJ LeMayhew free agency where the Yankees are bidding against
05:58themselves because DJ wants a ton of money.
06:01And if you have to spread it over more years, the Yankees ended up going with six year deal
06:05when in actuality, they should have done a four year deal and paid him more money up
06:08front with higher AAV.
06:10The Yankees don't want to go high AAV because that's going to affect their their, you know,
06:14quote unquote salary cap, whatever you want to call it.
06:18I don't know, man, like part of me thinks that the Yankees might be better off not playing
06:22in the Bellinger waters because I don't think that contract is going to age well.
06:25When you're talking about potential five or six year deal for a player that's over 30 years
06:30old, he's going to get worse defensively every year.
06:33It's just, it's mother nature.
06:34A player gets worse athletically and defensively as they get older.
06:39So if you're paying him for his elite defense and center and left, you have to think two
06:43or three years into that deal, it's going to get worse.
06:46So I wonder, is it really the juice worth the squeeze?
06:49If you do end up signing Bellinger six years, I am cautiously like maybe you're better off
06:54not signing him to a six year deal.
06:55What are your thoughts on that?
06:57Well, let's look across town at what just happened with Brandon Nimmo, a fan favorite player
07:01who they gave too many years to, to lower that annual average salary.
07:05Brandon Nimmo went from a fast defensive minded center fielder who could hit a lot to someone
07:10who couldn't play center field, then was a mediocre left fielder and left field in city
07:14field is easier than right field in city field.
07:16They had Juan Soto out in right field.
07:18Who's not a very good defensive player.
07:20And then they traded him for a aging old, not in his prime Marcus Simeon, who has three
07:25years left on his deal.
07:26So that should be caution for the Yankees.
07:29You should not give out these seven or eight year contracts to lower the annual average
07:33salary.
07:34And mind you with Nimmo, he put up 5.5 wins above replacement, had a, had a higher OPS than
07:39Bellinger OPS plus, excuse me, when he hit the market and he was a year younger.
07:43So yeah, for the Yankees, I would prefer if they were going to say, Hey, if you want, do you
07:47want $150 million, let's do it over five years, not six years, because you want to pay for
07:52their best years and paying $30 million versus $25 million for first year or second year Cody
07:58Bellinger.
07:58That's worth it.
07:59That's, that's still worth the money.
08:01What won't be worth the money is when you're paying $25 million and Bellinger's DFA'd after
08:05year five.
08:06That's what you don't want.
08:07Right.
08:07I, again, five years still is, is I have question marks about that because that contract again
08:13will not age well at all.
08:14And that's why I'm wondering if the Yankees are better off going after a Kyle Tucker and
08:19investing heavily in that.
08:20I know it's going to cost way more money.
08:22It's going to be longer and years in turn, but he's a better, I would say hitter and also
08:27a, a younger player that you're investing in.
08:30It's just, it's, and the other thing I would ask you is how do they pivot?
08:33If let's say they don't get priced into the Bellinger market and they get priced out of
08:37it, where do they pivot?
08:39Cause I, I, I can imagine after house comments, they're not going after Kyle Tucker.
08:43So how would they pivot with left field?
08:46Trent Christian's in center judges and right.
08:48How do you see them pivoting in left field?
08:49Does Jason Dominguez get the start there?
08:51So first, when it comes to Kyle Tucker, I'm in full agreement.
08:54Kyle Tucker is the kind of hitter that you put next to Aaron judge, and you don't have
08:58to worry about your offense at all next year.
09:00He is a perennial 135 to 145 OPS plus hitter.
09:04He's got a very high walk rate, a low strikeout rate.
09:07He is one of just three hitters to have more walks than strikeouts in the last two years.
09:11That's Louisa rise and Juan Soto as his company there.
09:14He can hit 30 home runs here.
09:16And as you mentioned, you know, when we talk about how Steinbrenner, his reputation, if he
09:20goes out and he signs Kyle Tucker, I think a lot of fans would be promptly shut up by the
09:24comments and say the comments, they didn't affect how he was going to act.
09:27That, that was not an indication of how he was going to act.
09:29He just spoke and he said things I didn't like, but his actions were different.
09:33How is going to be judging his actions.
09:34And he should be judging his actions more than his words.
09:36Um, when it comes to alternative plans, I think you could bring in a right-handed hitting
09:40outfielder, like an Austin Hayes to platoon with Jason Dominguez and full focus on the
09:44pitching staff and improving your run prevention.
09:46That was the path they took last year when they lost Juan Soto.
09:49And it was a path that resulted in them being a pretty good team this past year.
09:52I thought they were an effective roster that just didn't come through in the postseason.
09:55Not like a fundamentally flawed team that, um, showed up and just had all their falls
10:00flaws exposed.
10:01Starting pitching was a strength.
10:02It was not a strength in the ALDS.
10:03So, um, I think that if you want it to go down the really cheap route, starting pitching
10:09bullpen arms, and then bring in again, a right-handed hitting outfielder to play against
10:12lefties, uh, instead of Jason Dominguez.
10:14Yeah.
10:14Look, Bellinger just would just be adding another left-handed bat to the lineup, which is already
10:18a, uh, favorably left-handed lineup as it is.
10:21I think they need a right-handed bat and outfielder would be great.
10:24Uh, and like you said, Hayes is not a bad option.
10:27I wonder if Garcia who just got DFA by the Rangers could be an option.
10:30I know he's not as good as he was, but I also wonder if he's worth a flyer if you want
10:35to go the cheaper option.
10:36Um, the thing for me too is, is the starting rotation.
10:39And I think you bring up a good point here.
10:41And I wanted to ask you about this.
10:43I am not counting on Cole and Rodon for the first two to three months of the season.
10:48I think it's bananas.
10:50Even how mentioned it yesterday.
10:52We're gonna have to get through April.
10:53Like he slipped in.
10:54Like, I really feel strong about our rotation.
10:56Now we have to get through April.
10:57Now, April we know is a month where the Yankees seem to surge.
11:01And then they have the June swoon and the July swoon.
11:03And they just become really average to below average baseball team.
11:07I wonder if they are overestimating what this rotation is going to be.
11:12You're counting on a 35, 36 year old Cara Cole coming back from Tommy John surgery.
11:17You're counting on Carlos Rodon, who's in his thirties to come back from, you know, bone chips
11:22and his elbow surgery, who knows when he's really coming back and being effective.
11:26You're relying on Will Warren while he was the second most innings pitch, I believe, for
11:30an AL for a rookie pitcher.
11:33You're relying on him to come back and get the ball every fifth day.
11:36You're relying on Luis Hill, who was injured a lot of last year and only had that one year
11:40that was really good.
11:41And then you're relying on Max Freed, who has historically battled injuries to stay healthy
11:45throughout the entire year again.
11:47So there's question marks all around this rotation, Brian.
11:50And that's why I think a pitcher like Imei from Japan is worth the investment.
11:55If you can make a trade for an ace like Scooble is worth the investment.
11:59If you can go get a Michael King that can start for you and then go into your bullpen, which
12:05is already depleted, in my opinion, besides the three horses that you got, you can do those
12:10things.
12:11How do you see the Yankees valuing their starting rotation?
12:15And do you see them being aggressive in this market to get more help in the starting
12:19rotation?
12:20So let's talk about Tatsuya Imai in this conversation because he kills two birds with
12:25one stone.
12:26He not only brings in a starter, but he also gets the Yankees back into the Japanese market.
12:31There's a big wave of Japanese players coming over from 2028 to 2029.
12:35It would behoove the Yankees to prove to those pitchers, hey, look at what we did with Imai.
12:39We turned him from a guy who was coming over, projecting as a number three, and he became
12:43a playoff anchor for us, one of our best starting pitchers, so on and so forth.
12:47And in regards to the rotation, I share the same concerns.
12:51Does anyone remember the last notable left-handed Yankee at 33 years old to get bone chips removed
12:56from their throwing elbow?
12:57That was Zach Britton in 2021, and he was never the same after, retired just two years later.
13:01Not saying Rodon's going to go through the exact same thing, but that did happen.
13:05Walker Buehler is in his 20s, and his career, it's in shambles after Tommy Johnson.
13:10I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, Ryan.
13:11People are expecting Rodon and Cole just to come back and be automatic aces again.
13:17It's like, whoa.
13:18This is elbow surgery for these pitchers, and they're in their 30s.
13:23The Yankees would be crazy to count on these guys to be absolute studs as soon as they come back.
13:29It's going to take time for them to build up.
13:30I think Justin Verlander has kind of broken people's minds on what the average old starting pitcher does.
13:37It's kind of like the Tom Brady effect where because Tom Brady did it for so long, everyone's like,
13:40yeah, quarterback primes are just longer now.
13:42It's like, well, no, age is still a thing.
13:44There are some outliers, sure, but for every Justin Verlander, there's a Max Scherzer and Clayton Kershaw
13:50who are not nearly as effective at this stage of their career.
13:54Max Scherzer at age 36, this was his 2021 year.
13:58He was still very effective, goes with the Mets a year later, age 37, age 38.
14:03That's when he starts seeing the fall off.
14:04But there was no Tommy John in that window.
14:06For someone like a Clayton Kershaw, he just called it a career.
14:10He's in his late 30s.
14:11I'm just saying it all to say that Garrett Cole is coming back from major arm surgery,
14:16and Carl Jordan has been an oft-injured pitcher who is coming back from an arm surgery.
14:21So, no, I shouldn't rely on that, and I shouldn't be relying on Clark Schmidt coming back from Tommy John.
14:25As you alluded to, is Luis Hill going to be consistently healthy?
14:28The history would tell us no.
14:30For Will Warren, is there a leap there?
14:32For Cam Schlittler, is there a leap there?
14:33Maybe, sort of.
14:34You're hoping for that, but as you mentioned, just go get an impact starting pitcher.
14:38You can never have too much pitching.
14:39And what is the month that statistically is the most injury-prone when it comes to UCL tears?
14:45March.
14:46So, when we talk about getting through April, you've got to get through March.
14:48You're going to lose one, two, maybe three of these guys before you even roll into the year.
14:52And at that point, you've got Alan Winnens taking the ball.
14:55You've got Carlos Carrasco coming back.
14:57Yeah, I mean, that's just not a rotation.
14:59You're not winning baseball games with that.
15:00So, you need to add a starting pitcher.
15:02I would have my number one on my board of realistic targets.
15:05I don't know if Scoobles is getting traded, and if so, if that would be to the Yankees.
15:08But he's number one on my board.
15:10I like King a lot.
15:11If a trade was there with one of maybe the Minnesota pitchers, that's something that intrigues me as well.
15:16But they need to go get an impact starting pitcher for sure.
15:18Could not agree more.
15:19It's – I think it would be crazy for them to rely on these guys to come back healthy and automatically be elite-level pitching when they make their returns from their injuries.
15:29Finally, the bullpen.
15:32I've asked Joel about this, and he's like, look, no, they love Bednar.
15:35They love Duvall.
15:36They love, you know, what they have there in the back end with Fernando Cruz, who they got last year as well.
15:43I am going to be honest with you, Ryan.
15:45Like, besides Bednar, I think it's a lot of question marks in that bullpen as well.
15:49You lost Devin Williams, who did not have a great year by any means, but still pitched a lot of important innings for you last year.
15:55Luke Weaver pitched a lot of innings for them last year.
15:58I feel like they need to get another elite bullpen arm.
16:03I don't know if it's going to be high-priced.
16:05I wonder if they're going to find something, again, like a Fernando Cruz where they make a trade,
16:09and it's a guy that's like, all right, maybe has elite-level stuff and just hasn't developed into what they hope.
16:14How do you see the Yankees attacking the bullpen through this offseason?
16:17So, I think the route of, like, finding their guy has been the Yankees' route for years now.
16:23And so, I'm going to assume that's the route they take.
16:25And with the Rockies having a new president of baseball operations in Paul D. Podesta,
16:29I think it's a real chance that they go out there and, like, maybe the Rockies trade somebody.
16:34I would look at Victor Vodnik, who is one of the hardest-throwing relievers in the sport.
16:39His average fastball velocity was the sixth-highest right behind Ryan Helsley and Robert Suarez,
16:44who are some of the guys who are going to get paid a significant chunk of money.
16:47Sitting at 98.7 miles per hour.
16:49He had a 3.02 ERA, gets a lot of ground balls, really good changeup, which the Yankees like.
16:55You think of Weaver, Williams, the splitters with Leiter, the splitters with Bednar as well, and Cruz.
17:01So, off-speed pitches are a big thing the Yankees like adding.
17:04Victor Vodnik would be just an awesome addition, just elite-level stuff.
17:08And the Yankees need more velocity.
17:09I think we can look at this bullpen and say,
17:11there are not a lot of guys who could just overpower you with raw stuff.
17:14Now, Vodnik is more of a project guy.
17:16He's not the established top-level closer that someone like a Edwin Diaz is or Robert Suarez is.
17:22But given that they need an outfielder and they need starting pitching help,
17:25is it really the wisest decision to give up $20 million or $18 or $17 million per year for a reliever?
17:31Probably not.
17:32So, I would say Victor Vodnik, like, he's got four years of control.
17:36I know he's going to cost a good bit on the trade market, but I'm willing to make that deal.
17:39And he's pre-arbitration, so it doesn't affect any of your other financial plans.
17:42And it's not like the trade market is where you expect the Yankees to be the most active for position player help.
17:48So, Ryan, I think you bring in a guy who throws at 99 and you take him away from Coors.
17:53He already had a .302 ERA there.
17:55That guy could be a star over here.
17:57I agree with you, man.
17:58Look, the bottom line is, though, the Yankees are going to have to spend.
18:01No matter what Hal Steinbrenner wants to say about the money and the payroll.
18:05You know, yesterday saying, is there a correlation between spending the most money and winning a championship?
18:09I still think it's a weak correlation when he was asked about the Dodgers winning a championship at spending the most money this past season.
18:15In fact, the Dodgers won back-to-back World Series, Hal, and they have the highest payroll in baseball.
18:19So, the sample size is only growing bigger.
18:22And let's not forget, your father had the highest payroll in the 90s, and they won a lot of championships that way.
18:28There is a strong correlation.
18:30Even though he says sample size of data is not very big, but they earned every bit of it in the Dodgers.
18:34There was nothing low about my payroll and the Mets payroll, and look where we ended up.
18:37But, okay, I think it's all about, yeah, go ahead.
18:41That's just stunning to me.
18:42I mean, when it comes to the Dodgers, they're a model organization.
18:45You talked about, like, the Yankees.
18:46They care a lot about analytics and pro scouting.
18:49The Dodgers do, too, but they also spend so much money that they're able to take their elite-level process and roster decision-making and player development
18:56and give it the funds it needs to be just incredible.
19:00Imagine if you took, like, the Tampa Bay Rays and you gave them a $300 million payroll.
19:03That would be a juggernaut of a team.
19:04And in the Yankees' case, look at the two big off-seasons they've had in the last decade or last two decades.
19:1009 is probably the most infamous off-season.
19:12They won a World Series championship.
19:14And I want to point to the off-season leading up to 2024.
19:16The Yankees were considering running a payroll of, like, $330 million because they were going to try and sign Yamamoto after trading for Soto.
19:24If the Yankees had Yamamoto and had that $330 million payroll and the Dodgers did not have Yamamoto,
19:29the 2024 World Series champions would have been the New York Yankees.
19:33So, yeah, paying does result in winning.
19:37Imagine if the Yankees, like, didn't pay Judge or didn't pay Cole and went with Plan B, which would have been Steven Strasburg, bad.
19:43Ryan, Keshe, we didn't want to pay Judge.
19:45Remember this.
19:46Imagine if they went and signed Brandon Nimmo or Plan B.
19:50How would that have gone?
19:51Carlos Correa as their plan.
19:52But, like, these Plan Bs, these B-tier stars, like, it doesn't work.
19:56Plan B, I think, worked last year, though, with Soto, right?
20:00The pivot.
20:01Like, going to Bellinger, going to a defensive approach, and getting Devin Williams.
20:07Like, they went full on, like, we're going to focus on the defense of this team.
20:10I, that's where part of me is wondering, again, if Bellinger, Bellinger is the key for this Yankees offseason.
20:17If they don't sign him as Plan A, what is their Plan B pivot, and how do they make it work?
20:22I think there are still some smart, savvy moves you can make that you've highlighted to address the bullpen, address the defense, address left field,
20:29probably get some more infield depth that could be right-handed, you know, part of your lineup.
20:33And, ultimately, they need to attack this rotation.
20:36I really would love to see them sign, Imai.
20:39I think it would be a great addition for them, and I think it could really strengthen something that people are saying,
20:43oh, it's already a strength.
20:44No, you can make it even stronger, and you can make it more certain going into next season.
20:49Yeah, absolutely.
20:50And, again, when we just talk about what we want this team to look like,
20:53it's not that they need to go out and sign every big name out there.
20:56They just need to make sure they address all their holes, don't have an incomplete roster.
20:59We answered last year without a third baseman.
21:01If you had a third baseman, you probably won the division.
21:03And who knows how that ALDS goes if you're playing the first two games at home.
21:06We know Freed had his struggles against the Blue Jays in Toronto.
21:09I'm not accusing them of cheating or anything of this sort.
21:11I'm just saying maybe it's the mound.
21:12Maybe he's just not comfortable up there.
21:13I don't know.
21:14But you just change a variable.
21:16Who knows what happens?
21:17You can't have an incomplete roster.
21:19You've got to look at your checklist and make sure everything is checked off.
21:22Because, as you mentioned, that plan B would have worked brilliantly if they just had even a cheap infielder,
21:27just somebody who could have played third.
21:28That would have been a 96-97 win team.
21:30Yep.
21:31That is a jugger.
21:32Like, that relative to the league, of course.
21:34That is a juggernaut win.
21:35You don't have to play the Red Sox in the wild card round.
21:37The Blue Jays would have had to play the Red Sox.
21:39And it would have been a 10-0 pitch game one, which is really big for them.
21:43Heel was – I mean, I'm sorry.
21:44He just wasn't a competitive watch at times.
21:46So, yeah.
21:47It's just you have to make sure you have a complete roster going into this year,
21:50which they're capable of doing it if Hal signs the check.
21:52That is correct.
21:53That's the bottom line.
21:54And, as always, Ryan, we appreciate you hopping on here for us at the New York Post
21:58and discussing Yankees baseball, and especially when Hal Steinbrenner decides to talk to the media and the fans.
22:03We'll catch you next time, Ryan, and enjoy your Thanksgiving, sir.
22:08Happy Thanksgiving to all.
22:09Happy Thanksgiving to all.
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