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"If it helps one other woman get the courage to come forward, then these projects are extremely beneficial even if I can't participate," Carlson said.
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00:00Hi, I'm Gretchen Carlson, and I'm in studio with The Hollywood Reporter.
00:07Gretchen, thank you so much for coming in. This is so exciting to have you here.
00:10We have a lot of ground to cover. There's a lot going on with you these days.
00:14You have a new special on Lifetime about the college admissions scandal.
00:18So, you know, there's so many big headlines out there in the world,
00:22and I know that your documentary series goes behind the headlines.
00:26Why did you choose the college admissions scandal?
00:27Because it's one of the biggest stories that's happening in America right now over the last several months.
00:32I think this documentary is one of the first to really go beyond the headlines and tell people the real story.
00:37And it's a fascinating topic, and we're going to be able to expose so much for viewers.
00:42It's going to help parents out there who are about to go through this process.
00:45But it's also going to make people angry, I think, about how the system has allegedly been rigged.
00:51And it's really about the haves and the have-nots.
00:53And I think that, you know, for a long time people have been suspect of the admissions process.
00:59And we're really going to break it down for them and tell them probably what they were suspecting all along.
01:04One of the exclusive interviews that we have in the documentary is actually a mom who filed a $500 billion lawsuit
01:10against all the defendants in the admissions scandal.
01:13Her claim is that she's filing on behalf of all of the students across America and the world
01:17who maybe didn't get into college because these slots were being given away illegally.
01:22And she says she's not doing it for her own personal gain of money,
01:26but for all of these kids that we may never know why they didn't get into college.
01:31I mean, the interesting thing is that colleges don't have to tell you when they deny you what the reason is, right?
01:36So was it because they were giving away these slots illegally,
01:39or is it just simply because they have too many applicants?
01:41So there's a lot of unknown in there, but I think that hearing from this mom exclusively,
01:47she trusted me to tell her story for the first time, and I'm really proud of that.
01:51We also talked to a really amazing swimmer who had an encounter with Rick Singer,
01:56who was the mastermind of this admissions scandal.
01:59And quite honestly, his parents were working three, four jobs,
02:02and they couldn't afford to sign up for the tutoring.
02:04And we interviewed them for the first time exclusively, and they, you know, it's like a double-edged sword.
02:09They didn't have the money to do the tutoring, so they're grateful now because of the scandal that they didn't get involved.
02:15But at the same time, their son was never recruited to be a swimmer in college,
02:19so they have many question marks in the back of their minds about, well, why not?
02:23Is it because we didn't go with Rick Singer?
02:25And by the way, you should be proud of the entire special.
02:29I watched it, and it was, for somebody like me, I paid attention to so many of the headlines
02:34and obviously the celebrity of it all.
02:36But going deeper in this special really brought to light so many things that I had missed,
02:41just paying attention to sort of like the sensational aspect of it all.
02:45I mean, you really take a closer look at who Rick Singer is, which I found really informative.
02:50Tell me what was most surprising to you about this man.
02:53Well, how, you know, we actually focused on somebody saying positive things about him.
02:57That's true, yeah.
02:58Because it was very balanced, and it was important to us to show how people can turn on a dime.
03:04And I think a lot of these parents fall into the same category.
03:07Listen, as a parent of two teenage children myself, we would do anything for our children.
03:12I think that's the prevailing thought process out there.
03:15But like Rick Singer and like these parents, there's a fine line between doing anything for your children
03:21and crossing over that line and doing something legal.
03:24And when that happens, there are consequences.
03:26And we're seeing that play out right now.
03:28I mean, look at these sentencings that are coming down for the people who agreed from very early on
03:32to plead guilty and be contrite and apologize.
03:36They're still going to jail.
03:37And so there are consequences in our nation when you break the law.
03:42And I think we also showcase how Rick Singer sort of followed that same path of being a good person,
03:48a basketball coach at a school, and then what switched in him to suddenly go to the dark side?
03:54Something.
03:56And then, you know, we could argue money.
03:58That would probably be the prevailing thought process because he allegedly earned $25 million in the process.
04:04Talk to me about what you think should happen to universities and college admission process in the wake of this.
04:10Two important points.
04:11We talked to a college admissions counselor who used to be head of admissions at a major university.
04:16Now she's on the other side counseling parents.
04:18And she says that there's no way that these institutions did not know that this was going on.
04:23That's the first thing.
04:25So are we going to be hearing about more indictments down the road?
04:28I would speculate yes.
04:30Number two, there are just a lot of loopholes that need to be closed that were just made it rife for this to be able to happen.
04:37And the biggest one that we uncovered was the idea that when you're recruited for a sport where they're not actually giving you a financial scholarship, you don't have to play that sport when you get to college.
04:48And I think that that is an unknown to a lot of Americans out there.
04:52They would assume that if you're recruited for sailing or for squash or for crew that you're actually going to play that sport when you get there.
04:59Well, that's not the case.
05:01So that to me is this huge loophole that you can drive a huge truck through.
05:06And one of the main things that Rick Singer attached himself to to make this scandal work.
05:11One of the great things about having you here today is it's, you know, it's always great to talk to somebody about a big new project or about an interesting special or film or something.
05:20But the fact that you're sitting here today talking about something is that you're doing and working on is such a great example for women who have spoken out about sexual harassment or sexual misconduct in the workplace that you can still have a career.
05:34I know that that's been something that you've been so passionate about.
05:37And you're a rare case because that's not the case for so many women.
05:41So talk to me about how it feels to still be working in the face of what you've gone through or in the wake of what you've gone through and what other women should take from seeing you continue to work.
05:54Well, thank you so much for asking that question because that's really what this whole movement is all about.
05:59You know, when I jumped off the cliff by myself three years ago, I didn't know that there would be any safety net below.
06:04But really it was the fact that there were all these other women who had a shared experience with me that I didn't know about who started reaching out to me.
06:10And really buoyed my spirits.
06:13So then it was very important to me.
06:15I realized from them that most of them never went back to work after they came forward.
06:19And that to me was outrageous.
06:22And so I was determined that I was going to go back to what's been my passion for the last 25 years, which is television news.
06:29And I have then become a beacon of hope for all of these other women that if Gretchen Carlson could do this kind of, you know, major case.
06:39And go back to work in her chosen profession.
06:42Then these women at home are saying to themselves, maybe I can too.
06:46And listen, over the last three years, I have gained great perspective.
06:50I have emerged from my lawsuit stronger and more empathetic to the stories that I've heard and the stories that I want to continue to cover.
06:59And there are tons of opportunities for me out there in television right now with the changing landscape every day of what TV actually is.
07:08And I'm just grateful that I'm going to probably take advantage of those opportunities and continue my career.
07:13What do you want to do for the next chapter or the next phase of your career?
07:17Because you have been also sort of a master of reinvention throughout your entire career, starting as a violin prodigy and then becoming Miss America and then, you know, becoming one of the faces of television news.
07:31Exactly. And it wasn't like I was thinking to myself throughout that process that one day it's going to say on my resume, one of the major poster children for sexual harassment in the workplace.
07:40But, you know, if there's been one constant in my life, it's that I have a fire in my belly to work.
07:47And whether that's philanthropically, which I have done over the last three years and frankly for my entire life, whether that's speaking up for women, which I've done my whole life and continue to do, whether that's changing laws on the hill, which I've been fighting for for the last three years, or whether it's me myself going back to work, that fire in my belly never leaves me.
08:08So, yes, I have a passion to sit behind the anchor desk again, whether it's cable news or at a network or to do a talk show or to bring the country together as we approach a very important election in 2020 as a unifying force.
08:23You know, I have a tremendous amount still to offer in my career that I've worked so hard to attain.
08:29And what news are you watching? Because I read something that you're not watching Fox News.
08:33Are you shocked?
08:34I mean, I'm not shocked. No.
08:35Yeah.
08:35But there is a lot of news out there. So what are you watching on a daily basis?
08:39You know, it's been really rewarding for me to be able to watch a lot of everything.
08:43Yeah.
08:44You know, where I finally had a little bit of time to sit back and watch all of my colleagues and I'm really proud of all of them.
08:49I mean, you as well. You know, we all work really hard every day and I never really had a chance to sit back and really honor that.
08:56And so, for example, I'm rooting for Nora O'Donnell, who's, you know, back as a woman doing the CBS Evening News.
09:03I'm rooting for Jake Tapper, who participated in my book Be Fierce as a feminist dad and man.
09:10And I've really just gained so much more perspective from being able to see a lot of everything.
09:16What I recommend to people in this hyper-partisan time that we live in, unfortunately, is that you watch something at least one hour a week that you don't agree with.
09:25Wow.
09:26Because then maybe there's a way to bring us together and find solutions in our country instead of just staying in our lanes and never looking outside of it and watching only what we want to hear.
09:39Mm-hmm. That's such good advice and something that I'm going to now do.
09:44Okay, good. Report back to me on what you think.
09:47I will. And I want to go back to something you said, though, too, because you have been up on the hill fighting because it didn't matter how long I prepared or how many questions I wrote down.
09:56There's so much you still can't talk about, about your own personal journey.
09:59And you're fighting so that that's not the case for women and they have their day in court and they're not stuck in these forced arbitrations.
10:06So talk to me about what that path has been like for you.
10:08Yeah, thank you for the question.
10:10So when I usually talk about arbitration, I get, like, this glazed-over look from people in the audience because, unfortunately, we don't really know what that means.
10:18So, simplistically, it means taking the muzzle off of women, taking the handcuffs off to give them a voice if they happen to face harassment in the workplace.
10:27Simply put, tons of companies now make you sign employment contracts that have these arbitration clauses that mean if you do have a dispute, you have to go to arbitration and not an open court.
10:37And the problem with arbitration is that it's a secret chamber.
10:40So it's a way where companies have been able to shield harassment cases from becoming public, quite honestly, over the last 20 years.
10:47They just shove them all to arbitration and the woman goes there, maybe gets a small little settlement, never works again.
10:55And the worst part about it is that the perpetrator gets to stay on the job because nobody knows about it.
11:01And so that promulgates this harassing to continue in that environment.
11:06Wouldn't it be great if my bill would pass and women would be able to stand up and speak up and be able to tell their stories?
11:14And quite honestly, it would probably stop the perpetrators from doing the harassment if they knew the woman had a voice.
11:21So I believe that passing this into law is the final part of the tipping point in our society to really eradicate this problem from the workplace.
11:30It's really important.
11:31And I'm going to share with you that it's really moving quickly now on the Hill.
11:37And I'm very optimistic that something good is going to come about this before the end of the year.
11:41Wow, that's good.
11:43And then because it's also so important to you because your story is being told.
11:48So many people have caught Naomi Watts' interpretation of your story in the loudest voice on Showtime.
11:54And then, you know, here comes another Oscar winner and Nicole Kidman doing the same thing.
11:59I know you've met Naomi, but have you met Nicole or had any conversations?
12:03You're not allowed to, right?
12:04No.
12:04No?
12:05You know, it's really strange and frustrating because of my NDA, the nondisclosure.
12:09I can't participate in any of these projects.
12:12And sometimes people don't understand that or know that.
12:15But again, it's why I'm working so hard on the Hill to change that.
12:18I had a chance to meet Naomi after she was done filming The Loudest Voice when I was at the premiere.
12:25And what I was really touched by was her Instagram post after that where, you know,
12:29she really said that playing me as a character was one of the highlights of her career
12:34and that she was just, you know, shouting from the mountaintops my bravery.
12:40And I'll never forget that because how surreal is it to have Naomi and Nicole playing little Gretchen Carlson from Anoka, Minnesota, right?
12:47It's just, it's very surreal.
12:50And I'm very honored because I think it just continues the dialogue of this issue, which is essential to fixing it.
12:56And if it helps one other woman to get the fact that courage is contagious and watch these projects and get the courage to come forward,
13:06then these projects are extremely beneficial, even if I can't participate in it.
13:10Wow. Yeah, that's well said.
13:12And it's inescapable, too.
13:14I mean, it's one thing to see the headlines like we're seeing today with Matt Lauer, the latest headlines from Ronan Farrow's book.
13:22But then to forget that there's a woman behind those stories or there's multiple women behind these stories.
13:27So, but I did want to ask you about today's headlines.
13:30It just is another set of allegations that he's facing, and it brings the glare back to, like, the news business and the media business
13:39and what's really going on behind the scenes.
13:42How pervasive do you think it is, and what's your take on this latest wave with Matt Lauer?
13:47Well, first of all, there's a lot of emotions for me every time that you see a big story like this break
13:51because it brings it back to me and the courage that it took to jump off the cliff.
13:56Before, we were in what I like to call this cultural revolution where it's safer for women to come forward
14:02because we're actually being believed.
14:04You know, so there's a ton of emotions for me, and the first thought I have is not necessarily about Matt Lauer, but about the victim.
14:13And I just want to let her know that she's not alone and that there are thousands of women all across the country
14:18who are here and men to lift her up and support her and make her feel like she's not alone
14:23because I know how difficult it was for her to decide to put a name and face on this.
14:27And then also, I'd just like to remind people that sexual harassment is not only happening in Hollywood
14:35and with famous TV news people.
14:38This is an epidemic that's happening to tons of people across our country in every profession,
14:44teachers, lawyers, members of our military.
14:46I had an airline mechanic reach out to me, Wall Street bankers, doctors, police officers, fire chiefs.
14:54It's everywhere, and that's really why I've continued to do all the work that I'm doing.
15:01It's not for me anymore.
15:03It's for all of these other women who never had a voice, and it's also for my children
15:09and for other people's children because we need to get this message to the young people
15:14to help stop the process.
15:16And I'm really hopeful when I go speak across college campuses that I see as many young men
15:21in the audiences wanting to come and hear me speak as I do women, and that gives me great hope.
15:26Wow.
15:27We're running out of time, but I did want to ask you, too, you've also been spreading the message
15:30through your books.
15:32It feels like there's a trilogy here.
15:34I don't know.
15:34There's two already.
15:36There's two already.
15:37Are you planning a third, or is that of interest to you?
15:40You know, writing books are—actually, writing books is the easy part.
15:44Promoting the books is the hard part.
15:48The industry has just changed so dramatically over the last couple of years.
15:51But yes, I probably will be writing another book, but not tomorrow.
15:56Not tomorrow.
15:56You've got to get back on TV first.
15:58Yes, and pass my bill.
16:00And pass your bill, as you are this weekend.
16:02So check out Gretchen Carlson's new special on Lifetime, October 12th, about the college admission
16:07scandal.
16:07Thank you so much for tuning in, and we'll see you next time.
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