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Dragons' Den (2006) Season 20 Episode 9
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00:00Dragon's Den. Whoa. Oh, man.
00:03And this time, you take the deal.
00:06All right. Don't mess with our new dragon.
00:08Just hold on a second, okay?
00:10I raised four children as a single mom without a job and built a business.
00:17Do not stand in front of me and tell me that it's too hard.
00:21I started a business with $30,000.
00:24Where'd you get that from?
00:25My whole savings and...
00:27Your entire life savings.
00:28Entire life savings.
00:30There's a name when your mouth and your hands are up on the wheel.
00:37I'm a child.
00:41I'm a child.
00:46I'm a child.
00:47I'm a child.
00:52First up, let's see if these jiu-jitsu sweethearts can tap out the dragon's heat with their frosty treat.
00:58Hello, dragons.
00:59Hello.
01:00Hello.
01:00Hello.
01:00Hi.
01:00My name is Fernando.
01:01That's my wife and business partner, Raquel.
01:03Hello.
01:04We are from London, Ontario, and today we are asking for $150,000 in exchange for 15% of our business, Hyper Açaí.
01:13Originally, we are from Brazil, and as Brazilians, we have two passions, jiu-jitsu and açaí.
01:19Oh, okay.
01:21When I was training to become a Brazilian jiu-jitsu fighter, that's when I was introduced to the açaí.
01:27It was the perfect after-workout snack.
01:30But when we moved from Brazil to Canada, açaí here in Canada was being watered down, blended
01:37with other fruits, and nothing like what we grew up with.
01:40So, just as in jiu-jitsu, we earned the position.
01:44We decided to take a açaí from Brazil to Canada, take the market to the mat.
01:50And someone's in trouble.
01:52Uh-oh.
01:53Oh!
01:53You gotcha.
01:54Oh!
01:55And when the competitor is into submission.
01:57Whoa.
01:58That was quick.
01:59Wow.
02:00Well done.
02:01I mean, I was a national champion with Shotokan for many years.
02:02Do I need to get on the mat and show anybody anything?
02:04Yes, you do.
02:05Let's do it.
02:06All right.
02:07Here.
02:08Show me this.
02:09Here.
02:10Guys, all right.
02:11All right.
02:12These are tight pants.
02:13Here we go.
02:14You're wearing purple just like açaí, so...
02:17Oh, yeah.
02:18You're from behind.
02:19Yeah.
02:20Your forefinger go.
02:21My forearm squat.
02:22Whoa.
02:23Oh, man.
02:24Oh!
02:25And next time, you take the deal.
02:27All right.
02:28Nice.
02:29Whoa.
02:30Joe messes our new dragon.
02:32Well done.
02:33Yeah, nice.
02:34Good job.
02:35Look at you.
02:36What dope did you do, Drew?
02:37I know, right?
02:38That was really cool.
02:39I'm mad at many talents.
02:40We derailed you a little bit here, but let's...
02:42I want to focus on what's underneath the...
02:43We?
02:44No.
02:45We did nothing.
02:46What?
02:47Hi, para açaí.
02:48Oh.
02:49It's real, authentic açaí sorbet.
02:52That it's gluten-free, vegan, full of antioxidants, and it's delicious.
02:58Would love for you, dragons, to have yours.
03:01Absolutely.
03:02Okay.
03:03It's frozen.
03:04That's how we have açaí in Brazil.
03:06We keep the Brazilian tradition to have like a sorbet.
03:09Oh, wow.
03:10Yeah.
03:11Oh, wow.
03:12That is delicious.
03:13Because you're right.
03:14Usually it's a more watered-down taste.
03:15Yes.
03:16The difference between us and our competitors is because we have the highest amount in açaí
03:18in the sorbet.
03:19Yes.
03:20That's our number one ingredient.
03:21But if you compare to most of our competitors, they go below 20%.
03:25Yeah.
03:26I like the taste of it.
03:27I mean, I can see adding this to a smoothie as well, not just eating it like this.
03:30I like the texture.
03:31I think I find it a little too sweet.
03:34Yeah.
03:35Well, how much of it, how much of the sugar is natural sugars?
03:38And how much of it is added sugar?
03:40Is it added?
03:41Most of them, it's natural sugar.
03:4313 grams is the added.
03:4413 grams is added?
03:45Yes.
03:46Okay.
03:47That's quite a bet.
03:49Well, how much does this sell for?
03:50Yeah.
03:51Right now, we sell for $3.75 for the-
03:54Wholesale?
03:55For wholesale.
03:56And $5.99 for the B2C.
03:58It's suggested retail.
03:59Do you get pushback on the price, like $6 for this tiny little cow?
04:02I don't think it's that much.
04:03200 mils?
04:04Yeah.
04:05Like, açaí only grows in Brazil.
04:07So for-
04:08Well, I get that it's an expensive ingredient.
04:10Yeah.
04:11But I'm asking the customer.
04:12Yeah.
04:13Like, there's a lot of pressure on people right now on their grocery bill, their household,
04:17you know, expenses.
04:18I completely agree.
04:19Dude, an açaí bowl is like 15 to 20 bucks now.
04:22Yeah, they're ridiculous.
04:23I actually think this price point is very competitive.
04:25Where would I go buy this?
04:26We are in 60 locations right now.
04:28And we achieved this number in less than one year.
04:31And so you're in the frozen section in there?
04:33We are in the frozen section, yes.
04:34That's a very hard space to get into.
04:37It is.
04:38Maintain your sales.
04:39To stay in there, too.
04:40Yeah.
04:41Just the logistics of making sure this never unfreezes for the price point you're doing
04:46it is really difficult.
04:48But the frozen section is the largest growth section in grocery today.
04:54It's a great category if you do it right.
04:57Because the big kids are very, very competitive in terms of buying shelf space.
05:02The last 10 months, what were your revenues?
05:05200,000.
05:06We are only in southern Ontario.
05:09So Fernando does the distribution by himself right now from Windsor to Kingston.
05:15Fernando, you drive these around yourself?
05:17You're the distributor?
05:18Yeah.
05:19When we started, we didn't have the event.
05:20I put a freezer in my truck with a generator and I drive around Canada.
05:24Good for you.
05:25Most of our clients are fitness centers.
05:28We have this freezer program where we lend the freezer to jujitsu places, for example.
05:34And they are able to provide a pre-post-workout snack to their clients.
05:39Why didn't you put protein in it?
05:41Oh, that's also another one that we are developing right now.
05:44We have that with protein.
05:45We're going to have one with creatine.
05:47But the thing that doesn't make any sense to me is that added sugar.
05:50Because the whole point of somebody, especially in a fitness facility, whether it is a martial arts studio or a gym,
05:55the point is to have something that tastes good that is actually healthy and not just a bunch of added sugar.
06:00Well, I just developed the zero sugar that we will be launched.
06:04But for now, that was our first product because we want people to understand what is the real taste of the acai.
06:11Right.
06:12Fernando, frozen, ethnic, high protein, high fiber, and superfoods.
06:22This could be a home run for you.
06:24You need to reformulate.
06:26And for those reasons, I'm going to be out.
06:29Fernando, I'm going to go next and just, I'm going to say, what Arlene is saying there is absolute gold.
06:35I think it's, you go back and you retool.
06:37You're too early for an investor.
06:39I'm out.
06:40But I wish you success.
06:42I just can't get past the fact that your go-to was added sugar.
06:46And that's the opposite of what you should be doing with a healthy product.
06:49So for those reasons, I'm out.
06:51All right.
06:52I believe that you guys can bring a lot in.
06:56And if you guys come in early, that would be like...
06:59But Kyle, we don't want to build businesses from scratch.
07:01You've got to do the hard work.
07:03The dream is free, but the hustle is sold separately.
07:06What we do is come and put fire on it.
07:09I'm out.
07:11I'm not going to sit here and say you guys are not doing the work.
07:14You guys are doing the work.
07:16The fact is you're not ready for an investor yet.
07:19I'm going to be out.
07:20Thank you, Wes.
07:21Frozen is the hardest aisle.
07:23Yeah.
07:24You need to reformulate.
07:25And until then, I'm going to be out.
07:27Yeah.
07:28For sure, we're going to take this very seriously.
07:30I'm going to make some calls right now to reformulate it there.
07:34I can feel that energy.
07:36The thing in my mind that's good for you is you already got the fight in you
07:38because you wouldn't be in jiu-jitsu if you didn't.
07:40Yeah.
07:41Guys, did you hear that?
07:42He was just like, I'm going to go call them right now.
07:44Right now.
07:45That is a good entrepreneur.
07:46He's going to come back in the den.
07:48I hope he does come back in the den.
07:49I hope he does too.
07:50Yeah.
07:51They're onto something.
07:53You are asking people and telling people that it is going to change your physical body.
07:59Do you know the liability and risk in that?
08:01There is some liability and risk.
08:02Absolutely.
08:03There's some.
08:04There's a lot.
08:05There's some.
08:06There's some.
08:07There's a lot.
08:08Absolutely.
08:09There's a lot.
08:10Next up, this entrepreneur is ready to share a product she's been holding close to her
08:24chest.
08:25Hello, dragons. My name is Jillian, and I'm originally from Hamilton, Ontario. And today
08:32I'm looking for $75,000 in exchange for 25% of my company, Booby Grow. You see, many years ago,
08:40I went through a massive weight loss transformation, lost over 40 pounds, and with it,
08:44my breasts went completely. With four years of herbal medicine education in California and years
08:49working as a holistic nutritionist, I wanted to do something about this. That's when I created
08:54Booby Grow. So Booby Grow is an all-natural program designed to help the look, feel, and shape of the
09:02overall breasts. And I'm so, so grateful to have four of just some of the beautiful women who have
09:07had the chance to benefit from this program. After breastfeeding my son, I felt sad that I had lost
09:14my pre-baby body, especially my breasts. And so after taking Booby Grow for a few months,
09:20the results were transformational. After the first month, I noticed significant fullness changes
09:27around the bottom and sides of my breasts. And then at around the four-month mark,
09:31I noticed significant changes in my cleavage, which was amazing.
09:36I now invite you to have a look at the products beside you.
09:39Oh, so it's a pill supplement.
09:43It is.
09:45These are natural things.
09:46Fennel.
09:47Thistle.
09:48I studied kinesiology for four years and that's the study of the body. And so at first I'm thinking,
09:53I'm like, what are you pitching? Because you can't spot focus your fat reduction or anything
09:59like that. So what exactly is it in here that it's adjusting?
10:02It is phytoestrogenic in nature, meaning that it's helping to adjust estrogen levels,
10:07as well as the fats in this blend are really balancing to the overall hormonal system.
10:11Are there side effects in this?
10:13Yeah. So as far as side effects go, we've had a couple of women where they had instances where
10:18they were sweating. One woman had like a breakout on her chin.
10:21Jillian, that's kind of anecdotal though. Tell me about the science.
10:25There is some different background research into some of the different herbs around increasing the
10:28overall weight and density. What I would like to do with the funding is to be able to help support
10:33our own clinical research studies specifically into my product.
10:35So you haven't done any yourself. What you have done is created a mix based on publicly available
10:41research.
10:42Correct.
10:42And is this Health Canada proof?
10:44That's what I want to get it to.
10:46So you're not.
10:49I know that there are steps to the process.
10:51You are asking people and telling people that it is going to change your physical body.
10:57Do you know the liability and risk in that?
10:59There is some liability and risk.
11:00Not some. There's a lot.
11:03You need to figure out a way to get some of that clinical trial and get that designation
11:07before you would even step foot into this arena.
11:09Because anytime I see somebody claiming something, but you literally have no research,
11:13even though there's public research on individual ingredients, that to me is still sort of big
11:18red flags. So I'm out on this.
11:22With the right funding, I would be able to get that clinical research to show, hey, this blend is
11:26But don't you think you should have done all of that before you brought this to market?
11:30Because it's a mix of garbage.
11:32The biggest problem is that when it comes to being able to get to market and get to that
11:36level that I would love to be able to be there, Manjeet, I really would, is there's a huge
11:40amount of funding that's needed. And that's truly why I'm in front of all of you today.
11:43I am all for do what's going to make you feel good in life.
11:46But I am not for anyone making claims that are health benefit related, that do not have proof
11:54behind them.
11:55I think we can say that, guys, but I think there's a lot of supplement companies.
12:00Like you can go to a Chinese medicine doctor and they're giving you 16 types of herbs.
12:04It's not that different. It's not that different.
12:07I'm saying that a lot of entrepreneurs get started and there is a lot of selling of supplements
12:12that are combined to do different things before people can get to the stage where they're
12:16doing research.
12:17We haven't even talked about sales yet.
12:19We can get into that.
12:20But Drew respectfully said, I don't even want to know sales numbers.
12:24I'm out.
12:24It doesn't make a difference to me at this point.
12:26Is it selling? Do you have a market here?
12:27Absolutely. We've done $13,000 in sales this year, $43,000 in sales the last year, and in
12:33the last four years, $108,000, you probably have pretty low liability risks because you
12:39have pretty small sales right now.
12:41How much do you think is going to take for you to become like a legitimate supplement with
12:46research, with research, I believe that it's probably going to take close to $125,000 of
12:52which I'm happy to bring forward the money as well.
12:54Don't you think that your first step would have been to do all of that hard work up front
12:59before you launched a product with what money?
13:02Beg, borrow, and steal.
13:05Entrepreneurs got to figure out a way.
13:06That's such a beautiful thing to say, but the challenge is when you have worked for yourself
13:10as an entrepreneur from day one.
13:12Which we all have.
13:13The access to money is very limited.
13:16It's not as easy as getting a loan for $100,000.
13:18If I could do that, I would have already done that.
13:20I wouldn't even be in front of you.
13:21Jillian, just hold on a second, okay?
13:25I raised four children as a single mom without a job and built a business.
13:31Do not stand in front of me and tell me that it's too hard to raise money because it's
13:36hard.
13:38That is absolutely you telling me that you're not an entrepreneur who can figure it out.
13:43I'm out.
13:46Jillian, I like reading fairy tales, not investing in them.
13:49I'm out.
13:49Health Canada needs to approve this in order for you to take it to market and in order
13:57for you to have confidence that people can put it in their bodies without the massive
14:01lawsuit.
14:02So for that reason, I'm going to be out.
14:05Without any research and without going through the proper Health Canada channels, I'm out.
14:10I absolutely agree with all of you that Health Canada is the destination, and I'm excited
14:18because I know whether it's one of you or it's someone else that I'm going to be able
14:22to figure this out and bring that to market in a really big way.
14:24You've got lots of fight.
14:26I do.
14:26You have to think about how you scale, how you test the market, and how you do that safely.
14:32And balancing those three things is never easy, and so you're just on that journey,
14:35but it's too early for an investor now, so I'm out.
14:42I don't understand pitching something when you have a safety angle.
14:45Let me just mix ten things together and see if it works.
14:49What the heck?
14:51When you look at the testimonials and hear the women's feedback, you can tell, like,
14:54this is the real deal.
14:55I know that I can defend these claims.
14:58Coming up, they're so tiny.
15:00I am so confused.
15:01Now, I'm a high school dropout.
15:02You 3D-printed soil?
15:04Correct.
15:04Wow.
15:24Entering the den, a scientist from Toronto,
15:27hoping the dragons think his soil alternative is groundbreaking.
15:31Hi.
15:31Hi, I'm Adnan, and I'm not here to bring another indoor food.
15:34I'm a good farming company to you.
15:35Excellent.
15:36Well done.
15:36I'd like you to come join our journey today.
15:39I'm here to bring a new innovative disruptive product in exchange for $200,000 for 10% of
15:45our company, Lairada.
15:46This is rock wool, wall insulation that is the global standard for grow media, soil, within
15:52indoor farming and hydroponics.
15:54It's made using mine rock and energy-intensive processes, making it almost as polluting as
15:59cement, one of the most carbon-intensive materials to make.
16:03We, in exchange, have created Smart Soil, a 3D-printed grow media that instead of rock is using biopolymers
16:10and is fully reusable, meaning that we have cut carbon emissions by up to 65 times than our
16:17incumbents.
16:18Wow.
16:18We've proven this tech.
16:20We have three urban farms in Toronto that we have created and have been servicing large
16:25clients such as U of T and Michelin star restaurants using our Smart Soil technology.
16:29Wow.
16:30And today, dragons, we're here today to bring this from farms into people's homes.
16:35Sorry.
16:36My bad.
16:37And...
16:37Everybody, run!
16:38Oh, sorry.
16:39No, I won't explode on you.
16:41But, uh, I'd like you to open up your boxes.
16:44Okay.
16:44Great.
16:46They're so tiny.
16:47I am so confused.
16:47Now I'm a high school dropout.
16:48You 3D-printed soil?
16:50Correct.
16:51And I think it's essential for us to do a demo.
16:54To demonstrate, the first indoor growing unit has lettuce planted in rock wool, the standard
16:59grow media, or material, plants grow in instead of soil.
17:03Now, how does it feel?
17:04Yeah.
17:04Griddle?
17:05Yeah.
17:05Right?
17:06It does.
17:06Do you think that we could, uh, reuse it?
17:08No?
17:09Garbage.
17:09Yep.
17:11And here we have smart soil.
17:13Oh.
17:14Next, Adnan's smart soil, a reusable, low-carbon alternative to rock wool, is the material used
17:20for the second wall of greens.
17:22And instead of rock wool, this actually biodegrades.
17:25Its main constituent is a material called polylactic acid.
17:29So it's completely natural and, uh, derived from plant-based materials.
17:32With a wash, the smart soil can be reused for up to a year.
17:36It's a little more labor-intense than traditional, but it's not that crazy.
17:40Doing this is much better than that.
17:43Correct.
17:44Yeah.
17:44So you can head back into your seat.
17:47So on the left side, you'll see the piece of rock wool.
17:51And I want to show you the test tube of smart soil that's also there as well.
17:54That volume of rock wool, we can do the same amount of work with just 10 to 12 of these
18:00pellets.
18:01Adnan, where'd you go to school?
18:04I went to UFT.
18:05UFT.
18:05I did my undergrad there and I actually invented this during my fourth year as a research project
18:10there.
18:10Do you know you're looking at the chancellor?
18:12I do know.
18:13Do we need to talk anymore?
18:14Do you want to just make an offer now?
18:15Yeah.
18:16And so when you say you're 3D printing soil, it's you're 3D printing the plastic that the
18:21plant is using to, um, secure the seeds and grow from.
18:26Okay.
18:26Are you going to get better produce out of this?
18:28So we also have, uh, proprietary coatings that we put onto it that can actually make it
18:32grow faster.
18:33Hmm.
18:34So you could add nutrients to it as well?
18:36Correct.
18:36Yeah, we can infuse nutrients.
18:39We've also received funding to also get into a biopesticide project, which we will be able
18:45to coat our soil with very specific compounds to keep plants much more healthy in really
18:49stressful conditions.
18:51Adnan, are you a, are you an entrepreneur or a scientist?
18:54I would say both.
18:55Um, so I've been running this company for five years now.
18:58I've raised more than 1.3 million in capital, mainly in non-dilutive.
19:02We plan to take this into market in the consumer market specifically right now.
19:06So you haven't sold this to anybody yet?
19:08We have not sold the soil.
19:10How much do you want to charge consumers?
19:13Rock wool or many of the refill plant pods on the market go for around $2 to $3 per pod.
19:21Okay.
19:21We want to charge around $9.
19:25So this is more expensive.
19:26This is a better version of this, but more expensive.
19:29Ah, yeah.
19:30But that's where the reusability comes into play.
19:32So in one year, you'd be growing about six heads of lettuce based on the time it takes
19:37to harvest, which means you'd be going through six blocks of rock wool.
19:42So essentially you're half the price then, you're trying to say.
19:45Correct.
19:46Right.
19:46Can you sell this not just to the consumer, but also to the big farms?
19:50Yeah.
19:50And we've designed our sort of go-to-market strategy in this way, where it's essential
19:55for us to get this out to consumers first.
19:57I'm going to just push you a little bit about why you want to go to the consumer when you
20:00have a market that would be dying for something that would actually help them.
20:04I mean, the end goal is to be able to take a large global share of the market.
20:10That's the end goal, but the path to get there, the strategy is what we're wondering.
20:15There's different ideas up here, but we're asking, what is your plan?
20:18After doing this business, I do know that getting my product into my customers' hands easily,
20:24which I can do through the consumer market, which is a low-hanging fruit, I'd be able
20:27to get essential feedback.
20:29So Adnan, first of all, you're solving the problem of food insecurity, which is a massive
20:34problem for the world.
20:36I don't think he's solving that problem.
20:38Well, you know, you can say what you want when it's your turn.
20:41So you're a smart guy, but your valuation is not very smart.
20:47I'm going to offer you the $200,000, but I want 33%, right?
20:52So, but I know that there's going to be follow-on capital that you're going to need to do this.
20:57Oh, yeah.
20:57And also, you're going to need my kind of resources, especially the additional resources
21:01from the University of Toronto.
21:03It's a great offer.
21:04It's an offer.
21:06It's an offer.
21:07Is there any other dragons who would like to counteroffer or have another offer?
21:11No?
21:12Well, maybe.
21:13Just hold on.
21:14So, Adnan, I put an offer on a table, right?
21:19And, you know, I'm still waiting.
21:21I feel offended here because none of these people put an offer.
21:25We got five more voices to be heard.
21:26None of these folks put an offer on a table.
21:28I'll hop in.
21:29So, again, I love the idea of less waste.
21:31I mean, we put a lot of that rock well in our walls for insulation with what we do.
21:34But I just think, for me, your costs are too high.
21:38I don't know enough about this area.
21:40And I think the valuation is a little off for my liking.
21:43I'm out.
21:45I love that you are getting the entrepreneurship side and the science side.
21:49I don't think I know enough about the space clearly to be able to properly help.
21:54So, for that reason, I'm out.
21:55Adnan, you get an A for innovation and Canadian innovation.
22:00But for me, you get an F so far in execution and strategy.
22:05I'm out.
22:07This is the space I live, breathe, eat every day.
22:10I'm in the consumer market.
22:12I know almost all of the vertical farms.
22:14I've either looked at investing in them or examined them or have invested in them.
22:19My offer would be $200,000 for 15%.
22:24$200,000 for 15.
22:25Okay, wow.
22:26Trying to take the chancellor out from the knees.
22:31You can compete.
22:33There should be a U of T discount.
22:34I don't like to pretend that I'm an expert in things that I don't know as much about.
22:43So, I'm going to bow out.
22:44Got it.
22:46I know you're looking over here, right?
22:47I know, Chancellor.
22:48So, I am going to take my number down, $200,000 for 20%.
22:52$200,000 for 20%.
22:54Now, Arlene's offer is technically on paper better than mine.
22:59But you know what I can bring to you?
23:01Well, I've invested close to $200 million in the space.
23:05Wow.
23:05So, I think I know this space better than anybody up here does.
23:11Well, Dragons, I will have to take Wes's offer.
23:16Mainly because I've been working with U of T for a very long time and do need the resources.
23:22Done.
23:23Right.
23:23Thank you, Wes.
23:24There you go.
23:24Congrats, guys.
23:25Looking forward to working with you.
23:26Okay.
23:27Take care.
23:27Well done.
23:28Congratulations.
23:29Good luck.
23:29Arlene, let me pitch you another 3D printed soil.
23:33Does the U of T tie-in, will it help them that much?
23:35You can't do anything.
23:36100%.
23:36Just do your chancellor.
23:37You can't make s*** happen for him.
23:39Well, you'll see.
23:52I'm Phil.
23:53I'm Brutal.
23:53I'm Anthony.
23:54I'm Rob.
23:55And we're man-made.
23:56Woo!
23:57In season 17, we went on the den and we were only eight months into our business.
24:03Woo!
24:05Ouch.
24:06Thank goodness it wasn't a full Monty.
24:08Our first product was the Boxer Brief.
24:10Then we had socks, t-shirts, caps.
24:14They feel really good.
24:16Michelle actually challenged us on the unit economics.
24:18$60 average order value.
24:20What's the product cost on that basket?
24:22It's a 25% cost of COGS soda.
24:24You might not be making money on your first order here.
24:27We knew that we had a lot of room to correct it and to really go for the economy as a scale.
24:33And we had a lot to learn still.
24:35We mentioned that we had $380,000 or $400,000 of sales.
24:38What do you think you're going to do next year?
24:40$7.2 million.
24:42$7.2 million.
24:44What?
24:44They all were like, whoa!
24:45$7.000!
24:47Well, not only did we hit it, but we doubled it that year.
24:51And fixed our unit economics.
24:53Big time.
24:55Dragons, then, will be forever stamped in the history of Man-Made.
24:59Wow!
25:00What a line!
25:01What a line!
25:02What a line!
25:03This is nice!
25:05We've known each other since we were little kids, and we all knew we had that entrepreneurial
25:09itch.
25:10And when your back's against the wall and you quit your job, and you have a family, a mortgage,
25:14you only have one shot at this.
25:15When we first started the business, it was really just the four of us.
25:18Since then, we've grown to a team of 70.
25:20We ship across the country, and we have now over 500,000 customers.
25:25All from right here in Canada.
25:27One, two, three, let's go!
25:32And now, with the projections that we have going forward, we know that we need a new space
25:37that's nice and big.
25:38It was really important for us to find something in the Montreal Garment District, and we did.
25:42We're going to have certain sections like customer service, fulfillment, marketing.
25:48You get the idea.
25:49Yeah!
25:50Coming into the 20th season and being part of the Dragons and Alumni honestly means so much
25:55for us because we, as kids, used to watch it and dream of one day being on there.
26:00Truly blessed to build this company with my three best friends, and especially to bring
26:04it to the point where it is right now, and I feel grateful to be doing it with you guys.
26:09Let's build it, baby!
26:10Fire!
26:11Let's build this empire!
26:12Like on the show.
26:13Hey, hey, hey, hey!
26:16Four middle-aged men with bad backs!
26:19Like a bunch of kids.
26:22Next in the den, when I started Dynamic Downsizers, I actually started following Brian Scudamore
26:46and his businesses and just to emulate his style.
26:52Let's see if these downsizers can prove that less really is more.
27:00Hello Dragons, my name is Leanne Macellis.
27:03My company is Dynamic Downsizers and I'm from Markham, Ontario.
27:08My name is Laurie Willison, I'm from Palgrave, Ontario and I am the Operations Manager at
27:13Dynamic Downsizers.
27:14We are here today to ask for $100,000 for 10% equity in my business.
27:21Dragons, seniors are overwhelmed at the thought of leaving the home that they have lived in for 40 plus years.
27:28Dynamic Downsizers are their helping hands.
27:31We downsize, declutter, pack, move and set up their new place.
27:36Our dynamic guarantee is to set them up by the end of their moving day.
27:40Now please, come on in ladies.
27:44As you watch the teamwork, what you're seeing is more than just furniture placement.
27:50Imagine your mother waking up in her home and then at the end of the day arriving at her new retirement suite to open the door and see her bed is made,
27:59her toothbrushes in place, she is ready for the next chapter.
28:03And this is for people moving from their original primary residence into a home.
28:09Yes, exactly.
28:10Now there's lots of full service moving companies out there that will do the packing, the moving, the reset up.
28:16Is this unique just that you're focused strictly on people downsizing and more specifically just seniors?
28:23The uniqueness really comes in because we specialize in helping seniors with cognitive impairments, dementia, Alzheimer's.
28:31We partner with the Alzheimer's Society.
28:33We train them in dementia friendly community training as well as you first training.
28:36The aging demographic seniors is a massive, massive demo and aging in place is one thing.
28:43But as you're saying anyway, with cognitive decline that needs to move into facility is absolutely somewhere we've been looking at seeing what we can do to be a part of the solution.
28:51Whereas our competition may focus more on the physical aspect of the move, we focus on the emotional aspect.
28:56Why did you start this business?
28:58So for me, I started this business right about the same time that my father got diagnosed with vascular dementia.
29:07I'm telling you, I feel that my life has kind of went 360 full circle and this is where I was meant to be.
29:14How long and how much does it take for a typical house, I don't know, 3,000, 4,000 square foot house?
29:19Like how long and how do you charge?
29:21That's not a typical house.
29:23Okay.
29:24The average 4,000 square foot home.
29:26I get getting down from my own house.
29:28There's eight salaries, what do they do with those?
29:30Okay, okay, okay.
29:32How long and how much?
29:34So typical package to move a client into a one bedroom suite, it costs $5,000 for packing and complete setup by the end of the day.
29:43Let's get into numbers a little bit.
29:45Yeah.
29:45When do you start and what's the numbers like, for example, last year, the year before?
29:49So I started this business in November 2018.
29:53Last year in 2024, my numbers were $155,000 growth and I doubled that in one year.
30:00We just finished our year end in February and I was $334,000.
30:04And what's your profits on 334, for example?
30:07My net net was $54,000.
30:10So how many vehicles do you have?
30:12I just have that vehicle.
30:15And do you have any like near term expansion plans?
30:18Oh, well, I hope by the end of May that I will have hired a salesperson.
30:22But I'll be honest with you, I have high school education.
30:27So I feel that I need an investor in order to sort of take it to the next level.
30:34I want to tell you, I've invested in probably 50 founders.
30:39And some of my best founders only have high school education, right?
30:43Do not underestimate that for a second.
30:46I only have a high school education.
30:48I only have a high school education.
30:49I don't even have high school.
30:50I don't even have high school.
30:51There you go.
30:52There you go.
30:53So never, never let that get in the back of your mind that you are not ready or you are
30:58not doing it or you cannot iterate or you cannot build a business.
31:01I do believe in myself.
31:02If I used to competitively dance and I'm telling you, I can compete.
31:06Do you take it to the next, you know, unfortunate level?
31:11Because when, when a, one of our parents passes away, you are dealing with the same issue, which,
31:16but now you're dealing with grief and you've got all of theirs.
31:19They're good.
31:19You know, sorry, I'm going to cry.
31:20How do you deal with that?
31:26Yeah.
31:27We take care of everything and we literally leave the house empty, ready for real estate.
31:32Tell me about your growth plan.
31:34Originally, when I started this business, I believed that franchise was the way to go.
31:39It is so complicated.
31:40We got out of the moving space because there was just too much, the complexity of going
31:45into a big house and trying to estimate how long it'll take and stuff gets broken no matter
31:50how good you are.
31:51I think anything can be franchised, but I think being in business for five profitable, really
31:57strong years would be a good foundational move before you look at franchising.
32:02What are you looking to do with the money?
32:04A hundred K won't go very far.
32:05It won't go very far, but really, how could I come in here asking for $200,000?
32:09But then you are, hey, you did value the company at a million dollars.
32:13It's not worth a million dollars today, but I do hope that somebody sitting here understands
32:20that we are worth investing in.
32:22But we can't value you on a dream and a hope.
32:25I think you're going to have people that will come along and look at your, your franchise
32:30model and they're going to say, well, yes, I could be here and really, you know, connect
32:34people emotionally.
32:36But in reality, my numbers could be a lot better.
32:37If I streamline, I hire movers that are a little bit cheaper and I can make more margin
32:40and you're going to start to lose the quality.
32:42And for that reason, I'm out.
32:44Okay.
32:46So listen, you guys have identified a niche, but you have one vehicle, you know, there's
32:51going to be a lot more than that that you're going to need to be able to expand this into
32:55different markets.
32:56So I'm going to be out because it's just, just too small right now.
33:02Your presentation was flawless, except the part, how you make money and how I make money.
33:09I'm out.
33:11Listen, I, I, my, my mother went through all this.
33:13So that's, that's why I was feeling emotional before, because I understand exactly the pain
33:17that you're talking about and how hard it is to move them into a senior's residence.
33:22But I feel like your business model is wrong.
33:25And I don't know what the business model is.
33:28It's kind of.
33:29It is cumbersome.
33:30I'm sorry, but I'm going to be out.
33:32I'm with Arlene here.
33:35Like Leanne, I would trust you with my family.
33:37I think you understand the mindset and the business.
33:41Right.
33:42How you monetize this and how you scale this is very, very difficult.
33:46I'm out.
33:50Brian.
33:51Okay.
33:52Then there was one.
33:53Yeah.
33:54I've spent a lot of time thinking about the space.
33:56Right.
33:57Like years and years and years going, there is a need.
34:00I think it's up to you to sort of figure out exactly how to make this model work.
34:05And when you do, I do want to talk about franchising.
34:08Okay.
34:09But at this point right now, I'm out.
34:11Well, I'm going to put a lot of thought into that one and then give you a call.
34:15Keep the passion.
34:16Oh, we will.
34:17We'll keep the passion.
34:18Yeah.
34:19There is a business here, though.
34:20There is.
34:21They're not the only ones confused.
34:22It's a massive market.
34:23We've had so many brilliant minds on this.
34:24There's a problem here.
34:25I don't know.
34:26If there's a problem, I don't know.
34:27There's not a solution yet.
34:28There's not a solution yet.
34:29Our leader is dying.
34:30Oh, my gosh.
34:31Do we need to call an ambulance?
34:32Well, if you wanted to see dragons breathe fire, you just helped us with that.
34:45Last in the den.
34:46I feel like I'm about to have a heart attack, but it's okay.
34:59An excited entrepreneur from Toronto hoping her hot product will have the dragons breathing fire.
35:05Hi, dragons.
35:07Welcome to Root Mama, the home of authentic Vietnamese hot sauce that handcraft in Canada using Canadian ingredients.
35:14My name is Viet Anh Nguyen.
35:15I come here asking for $130,000 in exchange of 10% of our equity.
35:20So without further ado, let me introduce you to the family of Root Mama.
35:24Whoa.
35:25Whoa.
35:26Hmm.
35:27Hmm.
35:28So the original one is the rootest of the house.
35:31She made me cry the first time I tried her.
35:34For the fruity flavor, we use the same base.
35:37We just add fruit inside.
35:38So in the way they're carrying on the same DNA, which makes the original one the mom of the house.
35:43And me is the grandma of the brand.
35:45Our mango is our firstborn.
35:49She's the best seller one.
35:50She's just a diva.
35:52And the pineapple one is our middle chow.
35:55Very sweet, but also have a really short temper.
35:59She hit you the first when you try her.
36:01We assume it's just for attention grabbing.
36:04And our passion food one is the youngest one.
36:08She's a little bit westernite.
36:10So she's pearly night with cheese, like a piece of steak.
36:14So without further ado, you can welcome to try them.
36:17Wonderful.
36:18These four flavors come in two sizes and are available online and in stores across Ontario.
36:24Oh.
36:25That's rude.
36:26That's rude, mama.
36:27A rude boy at this.
36:28Whoa.
36:29That was saying to make them.
36:30The pineapple is spicy.
36:31The sauces retail for $10 per small jar and $15 for the large.
36:36Wait, the original didn't taste.
36:37Oh no, there it comes.
36:38Oh yeah.
36:39Oh, it's spicy already.
36:40It's really good, guys.
36:41The pineapple punches you in the face right away.
36:43Right away.
36:44Yeah.
36:45The original takes a minute and then five seconds later punches you in the throat.
36:48Come on.
36:49If you can't take the heat.
36:50Is it really good?
36:51You see me crying right now?
36:52My wife loves spice and she's always trying to like trick me into a bit more.
36:55Yeah.
36:56But this would do the trick because just like you said, it doesn't, aside from the pineapple
37:01that hit me right away, the mango and the passion fruit, I can taste the flavor and it
37:04makes me want to come back some more.
37:05Oh my gosh.
37:06Do we need to call an ambulance?
37:07It's been a while, hasn't it?
37:10Well, if you wanted to see dragons breathe fire, you just helped us with that.
37:13This is it.
37:14Cool.
37:15Guys, everyone's your lightweight.
37:16I love this.
37:17My taste buds are gone.
37:18I love this.
37:19I would eat this every night on my food.
37:21I would have fed this to some of my exes.
37:26Try this, Adi.
37:27What's your passion for hot sauce?
37:29I fell in love immediately with the traditional recipe when I try it.
37:34And when I came to Canada, I couldn't find anything I like.
37:38And it's in stores now, right?
37:40It's in stores.
37:41It's in over 70 stores now.
37:4470 stores.
37:45Wow.
37:46And what are your sales?
37:48Last year with $120,000, and then this year we forecast at $300,000.
37:53On the $120,000, how much did you gross in that?
37:57No, last year we lost $100,000.
38:00The reason behind that is we have two channels that we have to invest at once,
38:05which is retail and e-commerce to catch up with demand.
38:09What was the hustle that you put in to get you there?
38:11So I started the business from scratch.
38:13I don't have family here.
38:14I started the business with $30,000.
38:17Where did you get that from?
38:19My whole savings.
38:20Your entire life savings.
38:22Entire life savings.
38:23Wow.
38:24Yeah.
38:25So back in Vietnam, I have a university degree of finance and banking.
38:30And then when I came to Canada, my experience doesn't transfer.
38:34So I started working in the restaurant as a chef.
38:38I have school, I have three part-time jobs at a time.
38:43Three part-time jobs.
38:44Wow.
38:45When are you going to school?
38:46Oh my goodness.
38:47You're hustling in like the best ways possible.
38:49I love it.
38:50Yeah.
38:51And so talk to, tell us about the name, Rude Mama.
38:53I love the name.
38:54I love it too.
38:55So on the funny note, Rude Mama.
38:58When people ask me like, if I'm the Rude Mama, I get to tell them that I'm only rude when
39:02I'm hungry.
39:03Those are rude on the phone.
39:05And 24-7 no break.
39:07Yeah.
39:08But then on a deeper note, I don't have a supportive family.
39:12And then growing up, if I dare to have a dream, I get called paranoia.
39:17If I dare to speak my mind, I get called rude on manner.
39:22And if I dare to talk back, I get a straight slap in the face.
39:25So I lean on to the image of strong, independent woman that from my boss, from my teacher, from
39:32my best friend, and those, um, the one that shaped my upbringing.
39:37Hmm.
39:38I love that story, because I love how you're making those two words, Rude Mama, mean something
39:42totally different.
39:43Powerful.
39:44Yeah.
39:45Empowering.
39:46How does your family at home feel about you and the business success you've had?
39:50I don't, I haven't told them about that.
39:52You haven't told your family about any of this?
39:54Yeah.
39:55Wow.
39:56I, um, it's a long history of trauma, and so I got connection with them.
40:00Hmm.
40:01Oh, I'm sorry to hear that.
40:02I'm so sorry.
40:03No way.
40:04It happened, but then, uh, it built me stronger.
40:07My dream today is to lay, uh, a strong foundation for, uh, for Rude Mama and-
40:13Legacy.
40:14Yeah, prosperity for, for Canada, which is a country I owe so much to.
40:19Well-behaved women rarely make history.
40:22And every part of the Rude Mama brand and what that embodies for you, I think is like an
40:28amazing story, an amazing mission.
40:30I can't imagine what you've gone through to get to this point.
40:34I think for me, the space is very competitive and I just can't give you the help you need.
40:40So I'm going to be out, but I'm going to be cheering you on.
40:43No way.
40:45And I love you.
40:46I think this isn't a space I have a lot of experience in.
40:48I think, um, especially being at a loss still right now, I know you're on a trajectory and
40:53a path that will, will turn to profit, but I just don't think there's as much I can offer
40:59as they can.
41:00I'm out.
41:01I'll go.
41:02Um, I, you're, you are a survivor.
41:04You really are.
41:05From an investment perspective, you're way too early for me.
41:08Um, and I think the space is very crowded and difficult and, uh, I wish you well, but
41:12I'm going to be out.
41:13No way.
41:14Thank you so much.
41:15Uh, I too am rude when I am hungry.
41:18I think my fellow dragons can, uh, test to that.
41:20She's rude when she's not hungry.
41:21I love it.
41:22Yeah.
41:23Like you figured this out and you haven't had the easiest path, which is actually amazing
41:28in so many ways.
41:29Cause it shows your resilience.
41:30You're still smiling through all of this, not only the questions, but telling your story.
41:34Like it's incredible.
41:36And I am willing to back a founder like you.
41:39I'll offer you 150,000 for 15%.
41:43150,000 for 15%.
41:46Is there any other offer in the den?
41:50I'll go.
41:51Yeah.
41:52I love you.
41:53You are funny.
41:54Your story of how you started with your life savings.
41:56That's how I started my business, but I can't compete with Manjit.
41:59She can turn up the heat on this business and, and really partner with you.
42:04I'm out.
42:05You know, uh, there's a, there's a lot of people going through what you've gone through
42:09and they're embarrassed to tell their stories.
42:11Yeah.
42:12But it's not the end of you.
42:14I need for you to keep telling that story.
42:16And, um, I'm going to be out, but keep at it.
42:20Manjit.
42:21We gotta do.
42:22Can I do a money shot?
42:23Where's the money?
42:24Money shot?
42:25I love her.
42:26She wants it.
42:27She wants it.
42:28She wants it.
42:29We are going to have so much fun together.
42:31Oh!
42:32Money shot!
42:33Wait.
42:34Record this.
42:35That's my TikTok.
42:36Wait.
42:37More money shot.
42:38More money shot.
42:39More money shot.
42:40Get her money shot.
42:41Benji's face is like, what is happening?
42:42Thank you, B.
42:43Don't worry.
42:44Bye.
42:45Bye.
42:46Bye, B.
42:47Congrats.
42:48I know.
42:49Oh my God.
42:50I need somebody to hold my hand.
42:51She's the entrepreneur that I wanted back.
42:52Like, talk about resilience.
42:53For sure.
42:54I got my juice.
42:55This is my dream dragon.
42:56Coming up next week.
42:57Dragon's Den gets into the holiday spirit.
42:58Is this our first holidays together?
42:59Total family Christmas.
43:00Oh, there you go.
43:01Lift her up.
43:02Yeah.
43:03Cheers, dragon.
43:04Cheers.
43:05Cheers.
43:06Cheers.
43:07Cheers.
43:08Cheers.
43:0920 seasons of drinking together.
43:1020.
43:11Cheers.
43:12I saw this when I painted my picture three years ago.
43:14That I knew Toothy was destined to be on Dragon's Den and work with Arlene.
43:21Put some money in your mouth and it happens like a ball.
43:23Put some money in your mouth and it happens like a ball.
43:25years ago that I knew Toothie was destined to be on Dragon's Den and work with Arlene.
43:55I knew Toothie was destined to be on Dragon's Den and work with Arlene.
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