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00:00:00My strong, strong suspicion from talking to people with the Yankees, who converse with the Yankees regularly, is, and how Steinbrenner has said this publicly, is he wants to get under $300 million.
00:00:14Hello, welcome to the Pinstripe Post.
00:00:16My name is Ryan Sampson, the host and producer of the show.
00:00:18That's the star of the show, Joel Sherman.
00:00:19Today is Tuesday, November 11th.
00:00:21Joel is taping this from Las Vegas at the GM meetings.
00:00:26We appreciate him, as always, for giving us some time here.
00:00:28You know, this is really the time now after the World Series that Yankees fans relish in and talking about offseason banter, about what exactly this team is going to be doing this offseason, how they're planning to attack the roster construction and what players they could potentially go after, free agents, trades, whatever it may be.
00:00:47And Joel, obviously, is always on top of it and is so great at covering everything that goes on.
00:00:53So I'm going to start off here, just as always.
00:00:54Joel, how are you doing today, sir?
00:00:56I know it's early in the morning for you over there, but how's it going in Las Vegas for you?
00:01:00The problem was it was a late night last night.
00:01:03There is no closing hour in Vegas, and we pushed it a little too far last night.
00:01:10And it's a quick turnaround today to do this and do the other work.
00:01:14The good news is I officiated the wedding of my best friend over the weekend, which was in New Jersey.
00:01:2350 years, my best friend.
00:01:26I got to do Dearly Beloved, which really freezes a room.
00:01:30So I liked it.
00:01:31I'm a ham.
00:01:33And so that was great.
00:01:35And then I stayed in New Jersey overnight, went to Newark, got involved in the government shutdown by sitting on the tarmac for a little over three hours, but eventually got here.
00:01:44So, yeah, general manager's meetings are underway.
00:01:49I doubt we'll hear any big business done here.
00:01:53I think this will be a slow moving, especially free agent market that will really pick up at the winter meetings, which I'm sure we'll do shows from a month from now, which is in the Orlando area.
00:02:04But, yeah, the hot stove has been lit.
00:02:09We're off and running.
00:02:11Listen, Joel Sherman is a man of many talents.
00:02:14Did not have you as an officiant on my bingo card for many talents.
00:02:19Trust me, until I did it, either did I.
00:02:21So, you know, but it was good.
00:02:23Literally, my best friend for 50 years.
00:02:26What's the anxiousness level for you trying to get ready for that, if you don't mind me asking?
00:02:30Not that bad.
00:02:33You know, a lot of reps on doing stuff like this and television.
00:02:37I do have some ham in me.
00:02:38I don't mind an audience.
00:02:41So, and I think life is about the great moments and rising to them a little bit.
00:02:52And I don't mean like as a kind of like bottom of the ninth thing.
00:02:55He, my friend, was marrying a woman we knew growing up.
00:03:01Me, him, and her brother used to play ball together all the time.
00:03:06We played football together, basketball, everything.
00:03:08And they reconnected later in life.
00:03:11So it was two people I've known for a long time.
00:03:14And I was thrilled and honored they asked.
00:03:17And so, you know, like once that happens now, you want to make sure the, probably that it's great.
00:03:25But also I told him, I said, five jokes, less than five minutes.
00:03:28It's your night.
00:03:30Joel Sherman.
00:03:31That is, that's, that's awesome.
00:03:32You get to share that to us, man.
00:03:34I did that.
00:03:35And that's cool that they got to reconnect later in life.
00:03:37Like you said.
00:03:38Yeah, no, really terrific.
00:03:39Really terrific.
00:03:40You know, like one of the theme of the, of, of what I spoke about mainly was that you just, you can't give up in life.
00:03:50You know, you can't give up on, at work.
00:03:53You can't give up at achievement.
00:03:54You can't give up on family.
00:03:55You can't give up on love.
00:03:56You know, like if you're lucky, you'll find it again.
00:03:59And, uh, I'm so thrilled for my friends, especially, you know, my really, really, really good friend whose father worked at the post forever, um, as a photographer, Don Hallisey, who's passed to a great man.
00:04:14Um, so, uh, yeah, you know, like it's just don't give up, you know, you gotta, you gotta keep trying.
00:04:21You can't give up and you have to keep trying just like the Yankees are going to keep trying to improve this roster, Joel Sherman.
00:04:26And, uh, yeah, listen, it starts though, I guess, really at this GM meetings, you know, like you said before though, there's probably not gonna be much coming out of this, but this is where talks really start.
00:04:37And it feels like, you know, the rumor mill really gets churning.
00:04:40So I wanted to try something a little bit different today for this episode and, um, give you a little bit more of like, Hey, this is what fans maybe are asking a lot of, a lot around the rumor mill and on social media and whatnot.
00:04:51I'm going to ask you five questions, five burning questions for the hot stove.
00:04:54The Yankees fans are asking themselves and probably would love to hear your opinion slash take on these things.
00:04:59And I think the biggest question we have to start out with Joel is Cody Bellinger versus Kyle Tucker.
00:05:06Two biggest names you could argue in the free agent market from the outfielder position.
00:05:10Uh, you know, Kyle Tucker, obviously coming from Chicago, he was started out in Houston.
00:05:15He's a big name out there, but then Cody Bellinger, the guy you had, if you traded for him from Chicago and had a great year for the Yankees is now a free agent after he opts out of his deal.
00:05:27Is this a matter of the Yankees are just all focused on Cody Bellinger or should there be a real conversation of, Hey, Kyle Tucker is a little bit younger and maybe you want to give him a bigger deal here and invest in that.
00:05:40So what do you think that strategy looks like right now for the Yankees?
00:05:44Yeah.
00:05:45So I think the answers to probably every question you'll end up asking is going to be unsatisfactory to the large degree of Yankee fans.
00:05:56In part, because we've just begun, um, Brian Cashman addressed reporters right after the season.
00:06:04I don't think he's going to talk to reporters until here, until tomorrow, as you know, from when I do this show, the Yankees are very media unfriendly.
00:06:13They try to limit, uh, you know, uh, the other three sports are all being major sports are all being played.
00:06:21We're here to some degree because we cover the team.
00:06:24That's our responsibility, but it's also for MLB good coverage at a time where they're not playing to, you know, get the hot stove lit and too many executives, too many executives run away from this and don't, uh, don't make themselves easily available to talk at this.
00:06:44The Yankees are unfortunately near the top of the list of, uh, of groups that do it.
00:06:49So I think he has a media availability responsibility mandated tomorrow, American league general managers.
00:06:56We're talking on Tuesday if we need tomorrow, uh, on Wednesday, I would doubt we'll see him, uh, make himself, you know, in the, uh, in, in, in a previous time executives made themselves available to their city's reporters every day in an event like this.
00:07:10Now this is like pulling teeth with people.
00:07:13So anyway, uh, so there's that, uh, he might come out tomorrow and say, whatever in the, the, the, the, the, the thing that I think will disappoint Yankee fans is, and of course, this always people get angry when you, you say it is.
00:07:29I am not Hal Steinbrenner.
00:07:31I'm not Hal Steinbrenner's representative.
00:07:35If, uh, I own the Yankees and I had lots of money, I might do other things.
00:07:40Um, there will, there are people who I trust who tell me that Hal Steinbrenner's Yankees lose money every year and that he wants to bring the payroll down.
00:07:49Now, if, if, if that first part is true, I don't know.
00:07:54They don't open their books.
00:07:55I know the franchise value continues to go up.
00:07:58That's just duh.
00:07:59But my strong, strong suspicion from talking to people with the Yankees who converse with the Yankees regularly is, and, and Hal Steinbrenner has said this publicly is he wants to get under $300 million.
00:08:13He wants to get under $300 million.
00:08:15And again, this is what the owner of the team wants.
00:08:18So, so Ryan, we can do the exercise that you want to do here.
00:08:22Yeah.
00:08:23And I appreciate what fans want to know, but at, at, at, at some point, this isn't what you want.
00:08:30It's what, what is, and I think the goal, and, and, and I'll be happy to answer any question as best as I can.
00:08:38But I think the goal this off season is to try to get under $300 million luxury tax money.
00:08:43I think within that, they'd like to resign Cody Bellinger, add another reliever who can pitch in the final six outs of the game.
00:08:54If that person was left-handed, that would be great.
00:08:57It is very hard to find.
00:08:58I think they'd like to find a complimentary starting pitcher to help them through some injuries early in the season.
00:09:05I think they'd love to flip JC Ascara for a righty version of JC Ascara and, and understand and appreciate.
00:09:13I think they do that having two left-handed hitting catchers and really three left-handed hitting catchers last year didn't work.
00:09:19And I think they'd like to find a complimentary right-handed bat and maybe plus Ahmad Rosario, who they liked a great deal and tried in previous years to get.
00:09:29That all told, I think the Yankees would feel if they got the versions of the players they wanted to, they would feel that's a 90 plus win team and they'd have a shot to line it up and that they could do that in the high 200s.
00:09:43That's my suspicion from, again, it's early in the off season.
00:09:49They keep their cards close to the best.
00:09:52So when it comes to Tucker and Bellinger, they, I think they very much would like Bellinger back.
00:10:02Even as a exercise in unlimited funds, I'm not sure.
00:10:08And I think there's a lot of teams that feel this way, not just the Yankees.
00:10:12I think Kyle Tucker is going to get a contract that at minimum starts it with a three and probably begins with a four as in 400 million something.
00:10:21I think there are teams that even have the money who are, is this really like, are we, are we taking a great complimentary player?
00:10:31And because he's the best player in a market wanting to turn him into a leading man, because I'm not sure even Kyle Tucker, beyond the money, wants to be a leading man.
00:10:40Uh, so, uh, I think even if the Yankees were more evergreen financially, you'd hear them in different markets wanting to spend.
00:10:51I'm not sure Tucker is their guy.
00:10:54I think Bellinger is their guy.
00:10:56And I, and, and, and by the way, you know, Tucker's a good player.
00:11:00I think I did this on a previous show and I'll try to do it quickly again.
00:11:05Uh, I think Kyle Tucker lights up the Christmas tree.
00:11:09That is, uh, a laptop, an analytic laptop, right?
00:11:14He does one executive who had him on his team at some point.
00:11:18When I try to make a case, the case for me quickly has always been, I've covered so many big Yankee Astro series and you will leave a Yankee Astro series going Jose Altuve, man, Cooperstown, Carlos Correa.
00:11:31Great.
00:11:31What a player.
00:11:32You're Don Alvarez, Jeremy Pena, George Springer, like Bregman.
00:11:38I don't ever remember leaving a Yankee Astro series.
00:11:41And there's been a lot of big ones over the last 10 years where I went that thing, Kyle Tucker did.
00:11:47I can't get it out of my head.
00:11:49An executive who had him said, you are underappreciating what it means to be good at everything.
00:11:55And sometimes you don't see it, but at the end of the day, he has a single and a stolen base and a walk and he played good defense and he's a good base runner and he could hit left on left.
00:12:06And he sees a lot of pitches and his point was there's a cumulative thing that does show up in war that you're not appreciating.
00:12:15And I would say even with that, I got it, but that's a co-star.
00:12:20To me, that's a co-star and not a – like we have allowed the marketplace – like Juan Soto somehow, we skipped all the hundreds.
00:12:29We went from like 300 to 700.
00:12:31700.
00:12:32So now it feels like, well, what's a lot less than that?
00:12:35Yeah.
00:12:35Well, 400.
00:12:36And I'm not – like Juan Soto to me is a star.
00:12:41Aaron Judge is a star.
00:12:42Aaron Judge is a star.
00:12:43Right?
00:12:44Like there are – Bobby Witt Jr. is a star.
00:12:47I don't get star out of Kyle Tucker.
00:12:51So if I had the money, I'm not sure that's the player I'd want because I just feel like you watch him and he's OG Ananobi.
00:13:05And like that's really good.
00:13:07He's good at everything, right?
00:13:09Like you watch OG Ananobi play and he's good.
00:13:11But he's not a star.
00:13:12He's not a star, but he's a damn good player that can help you win a lot of games.
00:13:15He's a damn good player.
00:13:15But within the framework of the NBA, he's not at the top of the payroll.
00:13:24And Kyle Tucker, of course, of how free agency works, is about to go to the – near the top of the payroll, especially in guaranteed money.
00:13:31Long term, he's had a couple of injuries.
00:13:33I'm not here to save Hal Steinbrenner's money.
00:13:38If he told me I could spend it, I'm not sure I would spend it on that player.
00:13:42Like I would more be like I'll sign Alex Bregman and trade the current third baseman, right?
00:13:53Because I think Bregman is such a great clubhouse guy.
00:13:57Like he brings so much energy and right-hand bat, which I think they kind of need.
00:14:02And like – and by the way, I don't think they're doing that from my aggregator idiots out there.
00:14:06Which – so I think Bellinger is the key to their offseason.
00:14:15I don't know if – that was long with that.
00:14:16I don't know if I answered your question there.
00:14:18No, you did.
00:14:18But I just think – I think it's going to be kind of like whatever you ask here, Ryan.
00:14:23Yeah, yeah.
00:14:23The answer is going to be I think that there's probably a plan B where they say spend more on a different area if they don't get Bellinger.
00:14:32Okay.
00:14:33But Bellinger is – I'm buying my significant other five Christmas presents.
00:14:38Here's the big one and here's the scarf, the like tickets to the show we want to – whatever.
00:14:46You know what I mean?
00:14:47It's like there's the other four gifts.
00:14:49Yeah.
00:14:49But there's the gift that I give you at the end with the bow.
00:14:52That's Bellinger.
00:14:54Yeah, that makes sense, Joel.
00:14:55I think – and you did answer the question because you're essentially saying, look, the market for Tucker is going to be so high.
00:15:03It doesn't make sense financially for the Yankees to invest in him.
00:15:05I think Yankees fans are asking themselves again like if Bellinger does decide to go back to let's say the Dodgers or signs with the Mets across town or he finds another place to go get that big contract and the Yankees don't meet that asking price.
00:15:16Is there a possibility they would pivot to a guy like Kyle Tucker because you do need to replace that production from Cody Bellinger that you got last year in the outfield?
00:15:24It's a lot.
00:15:25So I think the other thing is could Kyle Tucker play center?
00:15:31He's a very good defender on the corners.
00:15:36I don't – I've never heard he wants to do it or willingly wants to do it.
00:15:41So if the Yankees signed Tucker, does that mean they also have to re-sign Grisham, who I assume – and again, it's an assumption.
00:15:52I don't know.
00:15:53He's probably going to turn down the qualifying offer.
00:15:56This is his one big shot after the 30-plus homers to do a multi-year contract.
00:16:00Do you want to give three at pick the number to Grisham plus what you do to Tucker?
00:16:06Then you've got to trade at minimum Jason Dominguez and maybe Spencer Jones.
00:16:14If not, who's your center fielder?
00:16:16You don't want to move 34-, 35-year-old Aaron Judge back there.
00:16:19Dominguez is in the Dominican Winter League now working on reps in left field, which is good for him.
00:16:26Which he called.
00:16:27Which I said he was going to do.
00:16:30And to try to get better there, Tucker probably becomes your left fielder.
00:16:37You still need a center fielder.
00:16:38And does that mean you're now in the – got to close our eyes and hope that last year wasn't a mirage and sign Trent Grisham for what the market says Trent Grisham will bear?
00:16:48That's a double move also that I'm not sure you want to do.
00:16:55Yeah, no, it's a fair point by you, Joel, if they were to sign a Kyle Tucker.
00:16:59And let me throw in one other thing, Ryan, just so I hope fans see.
00:17:04It's if the Yankees didn't have Giancarlo Stanton, I'd be like, whatever the highest bid is on Kyle Schwarber, you have to be a dollar more.
00:17:17But this isn't a – I don't particularly love the player at the price it would cost for Kyle – for Tucker, the other Kyle.
00:17:26But if you told me, hey, Stanton retired today, he doesn't want to do this anymore, I'd be like, you have to be on the phone and win for Schwarber, who I think would hit 60 homers in his sleep at Yankee Stadium.
00:17:42I – or let's be realistic.
00:17:44He did 50 again.
00:17:47Your clubhouse would always be great because he's such a great leader and he's so serious about the sport.
00:17:54So I hope it's never misinterpreted as I'm like trying to carry water for the owner like here.
00:18:00I'm trying to tell you what I think the owner is trying to do.
00:18:03Yeah, you're being realistic.
00:18:04And within the frame of I'm not a general manager, I play the 31st on TV here, it's a shitty paying job, but I got to tell you what I think about players I watch all the time and where I would do it.
00:18:17Like I think, for example, the Mets should try to sign Bregman and Schwarber and be like, if you think you had clubhouse problems last year, we'll deal with two areas, solidify third base, solidify DH.
00:18:32In that case, letting Alonzo walk would not be as problematic, right?
00:18:37Go and get a real defender at first base then because you just added Schwarber who will more than equal that.
00:18:42And so like this is not an attempt to the spending of anybody, but it is an attempt to say, here's players I like and let's be realistic about what Hal Steinbrenner is going to be able to do.
00:18:56And then if you want to call some talk radio and scream about that he's cheap, go do it.
00:18:59But that is that's going to be like screaming at the rain to stop.
00:19:03It's probably not going to stop it.
00:19:05So, you know, like let's try to like deal with where he's likely taking this.
00:19:11Yeah, it's the financial parameters that you are reporting that he's most likely going to be operating in, right?
00:19:16And that's the reality of it.
00:19:18The financial parameters, it feels like every organization except for the Dodgers and Mets perhaps lives on.
00:19:24Well, I think that's what aggravates a lot of fans, right?
00:19:26Because of everything you laid out before.
00:19:28Because of the cachet, the Yankees, George Steinbrenner Yankee, the money they pull in and all that.
00:19:34You know, it's all that.
00:19:35But I covered George and the idea that George got everybody he went after is a myth also.
00:19:41But look, it still remains the point, though, of the Cody Bellinger versus Kyle Tucker.
00:19:45Cody Bellinger will be a much more reasonable, but it's still going to be an expensive deal.
00:19:49A more reasonable price.
00:19:51Who can, if Spencer Jones isn't ready, and you have to assume that the season is going to, even under the best case scenario, you want to start the season with him at AAA.
00:20:01Let him prove for four or five weeks he deserves to be here.
00:20:04Then have another conversation.
00:20:05See if Dominguez has grown and, you know, if you're comfortable Dominguez, Bellinger, Judge, then it's like, hey, if and when there's an injury, you know, and there probably will be, especially with the DH, right?
00:20:18Like at some point where it's like, okay, now you take those four guys, you move it around with the DH, et cetera.
00:20:23So, but yeah, I think center field should not just be, we do this on this cast a lot, Ryan, where I always encourage fans, go to like fan graphs, call up center fielders, run your finger down the list of center fielders.
00:20:42Tell me the ones that are available.
00:20:44Tell me the price on those because of supply and demand.
00:20:48And like, it's one of the things that's going to knock Bellinger's price up is there's not a lot of people you go, man, I really wish that guy roamed center field for me.
00:20:59Yeah.
00:20:59Yeah.
00:21:00It's, it's not a big, it's not a large market out there for, for center fielders.
00:21:03I do.
00:21:04I am interested though, if, if the Yankees ever were to inquire and send for, it's not unfortunate because John Carlson is still a heck of a baseball player.
00:21:11And I think he had an incredible regular season, got cold in the, in the post season, but Kyle Schwarber would be incredible, especially as a lead off in front of judge there for the Yankees who desperately need a lead off.
00:21:22And any place in the top four, it works.
00:21:27Yeah.
00:21:28Yeah.
00:21:28I think the Yankees are hoping that they have an 80 to 90% version of Schwarber and Ben Rice.
00:21:37I also play first base.
00:21:39I think that they, they, that he fits like that profile.
00:21:43Like, like I, I think on the show last year and I, maybe you looked at me crazy.
00:21:51I said, I think the Yankees think he's the fifth place hitter for a long time.
00:21:54Right.
00:21:55I think I said that on the show before he did it.
00:21:57I said, they love the underlying numbers and they love the player and the makeup.
00:22:02And I think they think he's going to work his ass off to try to be like major league average at first base this off season.
00:22:10And I think they think that there's still even a little more untapped power there.
00:22:16And they think that's 35 plus.
00:22:18Uh, and if it's 35 plus with that profile, it's 85% of Schwarber, right?
00:22:24It's probably going to be like two 50, two 40, two 50, 25% strikeout rate.
00:22:31Like which Schwarber walks like a 10% walk rate and lots of power.
00:22:36A guy who seems a little like Schwarber also not afraid to play in a big moment.
00:22:41No, which is incredibly valuable.
00:22:43So like Willie, will Ben Rice get there or is, will there, we've seen an awful lot of young Yankee players regress over the years.
00:22:51And he's going to have a prominent role going into spring training.
00:22:54Cause I, they might find, try to find somebody who hits right-handed to play some at first base.
00:23:01But I think the plan right now is Ben Rice is the first baseman of the Yankees.
00:23:07Well, to summarize point one and question one from Joel, he thinks the Yankees are more in tune with the Cody Bellinger part of this.
00:23:13Kyle Tucker just doesn't make sense in that, at that price range.
00:23:16That brings me to question two, which you just brought up with Ben Rice.
00:23:19So look, Ben Rice right now is the only first baseman on this roster right now.
00:23:24And like you said, if they can get similar production, like they did last year out of him, that's a, that's a literal, no pun intended, but that's a home run for them.
00:23:32And I think Cashman's also hoping that Ben Rice can develop and take that next step and prove he's not just as flash in the pan, young, young star, young player again,
00:23:40because it hasn't worked out, like you said, with a lot of the young players that come up here and have one great year.
00:23:46And then just all of a sudden fizzle out and they don't have sustained, you know, sustainable success.
00:23:53So do you think that's the right move for the Yankees to bank on Ben Rice being the everyday first baseman?
00:23:59Or is this going to be more of a platoon opportunity for him?
00:24:02Because I'm sure he's going to get some DH run with Stanton not playing every day at DH and you have to put judge in there factor as well.
00:24:09So how do they address the first base position with Ben Rice and whatever else is out there?
00:24:15Yeah, I think they need to find a right hand compliment for him.
00:24:21Um, I do think they're going to be out there on the tightrope because I think that until the July market, probably if Ben Rice is sitting on May 15th,
00:24:36hitting 165 with three homers and striking out 35% of the time, uh, they better have stashed somebody, a triple A who can at least be slightly below major league average.
00:24:48Uh, because I think that this is the plan.
00:24:52They believe in the player, um, and, uh, they're going to go for it.
00:24:57And I think they're going to, to a large extent, give him a shot to show.
00:25:05And I would use Schwarber as the example that like Schwarber does a lot of damage against left hand pitching.
00:25:13I think he was by far the highest left on left Homer guy last year.
00:25:18Uh, and they'll be like, we can live with a two 12 batting average against lefty pitchers.
00:25:26If it's a four 70 slugging percentage against lefty pitchers.
00:25:30And I think he's going to get some run to prove that he is a everyday player against, well, whoever starts now the day Garrett Crochet shows up at, in the Bronx, you probably want to have a right hand hitter who you could put at first base.
00:25:44But, um, I, I, I think this is Ben Rice's job.
00:25:50I think this is Ben Rice's job.
00:25:52And, and I'll say that kid does not lack confidence that he's going to be good at it.
00:25:56Yeah.
00:25:56And I, I wonder, Joel, do you trust Ben Rice defensively every day at, you know, playing that position?
00:26:03So, uh, I don't love it.
00:26:08I would note that the world series was played between Vladimir Guerrero and Freddie Freeman.
00:26:15And that those two guys are brilliant first baseman, uh, and just really create all around baseball players, base runners and hitters and power hitters.
00:26:26They're terrific.
00:26:27And I think we're used to seeing, like, I think the Mets are going through this with Alonzo, which is, it is so hard in this atmosphere when the bats are so hard to find.
00:26:37Are you really going to let the all-time homerun hitter on your team leave not at the end?
00:26:44He broke the team record in arguably his best offensive season or one of the two or three best.
00:26:50I mean, he's a really good offensive player, Pete Alonzo.
00:26:54But if you're the general manager and you use the word run prevention seven times in the first 12 minutes of your season ending press conference, are you telling us something?
00:27:02And I think the Mets are going through this because, uh, like I would even say the final four, Josh Naylor, who is a free agent, is a really good first baseman.
00:27:12The Brewers, whoever they put at first base is generally a good first baseman.
00:27:16So the final four, like, obviously they're there for many more reasons than who plays first base.
00:27:22But I think we always think of, oh, you could put your clod at first base.
00:27:25And I always encourage people and say, watch who touches the ball besides the catcher the most in this game.
00:27:33Like, there's a lot of throws.
00:27:35There's a lot across the diamond.
00:27:38Second, short, third.
00:27:39There's back picks from the catcher.
00:27:41You've got to be athletic and get there.
00:27:42You've got to, the ability for the first baseman to get at least the 3-6 force out at second.
00:27:47Not to mention the 3-6-3 double play, which both Freeman and Guerrero are brilliant at.
00:27:52Yeah.
00:27:53Brilliant.
00:27:54You save pitches from your pitcher.
00:27:57You remove runners from the bases.
00:27:59Like, the ability to do that is great.
00:28:01But I think Ben Rice will work at it.
00:28:04I think he's a worker.
00:28:06And I will, I've brought it up a few times in a few places.
00:28:09I don't think I've ever done it here.
00:28:11And I'll say this.
00:28:13The Dodgers are the Dodgers for a ton of reasons.
00:28:16I've been with them to the end now these last two years.
00:28:20Which means I've been late in October when the workload has been the greatest.
00:28:27And guys are tired.
00:28:29Four and a half hours before every game, Freddie Freeman and Mookie Betts are on the field.
00:28:33Those two guys are going to Cooperstown.
00:28:35And they go to Cooperstown for a lot of reasons.
00:28:38But namely because Freddie Freeman is probably going to have 3,000 hits.
00:28:40And Mookie Betts is this brilliant, brilliant player.
00:28:44They're brilliant.
00:28:45They are on the field working on their defense before batting practice every day.
00:28:52These are players in their 30s.
00:28:53In Freeman's case, now deep into his 30s.
00:28:56Right?
00:28:5635, 36, wherever Freddie's at.
00:28:58And those guys set this example for that entire team about how they're going to work
00:29:05and how they're going to pay attention to detail.
00:29:10And I'll never forget, as a very young reporter, Tom Kelly, the longtime manager of the Twins,
00:29:17who won World Series in 87 and 91.
00:29:19He was very nice to a young reporter.
00:29:22Why, I don't know.
00:29:23But he was very nice to me.
00:29:24And he said something to me once, like, Joel, you know why I have the easiest job in baseball?
00:29:30I said, no, why, Tom?
00:29:31And he said, because Kirby Puckett's my best player and Kirby Puckett's my hardest worker.
00:29:38And he said, you've got to be a real asshole, like, and not work hard on our team.
00:29:43If the guy who's the best player is working the hardest and paying attention to detail.
00:29:48Like, that becomes who you are.
00:29:50And, and, and therefore, can Ben Rice ever become a gold glove?
00:29:56No.
00:29:57Can Ben Rice, who kind of made himself into a passable catcher, make himself into an average first baseman?
00:30:05I think he could be major league average.
00:30:07And if he's major league average, and is 85% of Kyle Schwarber for pre-arbitration prices, that's what allows you to, A, win a lot of games, but then afford the next thing.
00:30:22Right.
00:30:22So, I think it's a big issue for them.
00:30:25Yeah, no, it is, because it's also...
00:30:26And so, that he's really good at this, because, again, to your point, Stanton has got this year and next year before his contract is done.
00:30:35And when he's healthy, he's going to be the DH.
00:30:37And so, there's no place to hide.
00:30:41Again, to go back, it's the Met problem.
00:30:44If you were allowed to play two DHs at a time, and the Mets could convince Soto and Alonzo to both DH, this would be an easy decision for Steve Coney.
00:30:52Go, where do I write the check?
00:30:54I want them both in my order.
00:30:56But the ball is put in play.
00:30:57And one of the reasons the Blue Jays came within a breath of winning the World Series, a breath, is they are really good on defense.
00:31:07I mean, when the ball gets hit, they convert it into outs.
00:31:11And I know what we love is the glitz of, and you better have it in this age where it's hard to hit, but you can't completely ignore the defense.
00:31:21And, like, you know, we saw, like, we'll remember Miguel Rojas' homer to win the World Series.
00:31:29I'll remember him coming off the bench for the last two games and making, like, five unbelievable defensive plays.
00:31:36You know who he reminded me of?
00:31:37I hope we have old Yankee fans on the cast.
00:31:40He reminds me of Luis Soho.
00:31:42Luis Soho could go, like, a month not playing.
00:31:45And trust me, he went a month because those Yankee teams, Joe Torre wrote the same guys in the lineup every day.
00:31:52He wrote the same guys.
00:31:53And then suddenly it would be maybe a tough day game after a night game or somebody had a little twist or turn.
00:31:58And he tapped Luis Soho, who never looked in shape, who looked kind of saggy or whatever.
00:32:03And he just had the greatest hands.
00:32:05And he had the greatest hands a month after not playing a major league games.
00:32:09And then he'd go up and somebody'd throw 95 and he'd go pop, pop into right field.
00:32:14And you'd be like, ask Derek.
00:32:16If you ever have a chance, like, if Derek Jeter's around you, go, Luis Soho, what do you think?
00:32:21He'd go, I can't explain it.
00:32:22It's so hard to hit.
00:32:23And he'd just wake up and go out there and be able to hit a ball.
00:32:26He hadn't hit in a game in a month.
00:32:29And I thought that was impressive by Rojas.
00:32:31He didn't have a hit in a month.
00:32:33He hadn't started a game in 26 days before he started.
00:32:36And he made brilliant defensive plays besides hitting the home run.
00:32:41Some guys have gifted capabilities like that, Joel.
00:32:43And by the way, if he doesn't make the defensive plays, especially the infield didn't play against Isaiah kind of Falefa.
00:32:47They don't win the World Series.
00:32:49Like there's a whole bunch of things.
00:32:50So I just, in this day and age, you've got to be careful about the offense-only player as much as you need the offense in a highly pitching time.
00:33:02God, I said that still good.
00:33:03Well, look, the reason why, again, is a difficult thing to discuss with Ben Rice, too, about the first base part is you're banking on a guy like Austin Wells having a bounce-back year because we have to talk about that catcher position, how that is affected by the Ben Rice playing first base every day.
00:33:20Is you do have three left-handed catchers, technically, if you wanted to keep Ben Rice somewhat in that part of being able to catch as well.
00:33:28You're banking on Austin Wells to be able to not only be a good receiver like he was, you know, last year as a catcher and receiving the ball well and framing well and calling the game with the pitchers.
00:33:39Throwing okay.
00:33:40Throwing okay, too, right?
00:33:41But, like, you need him to be able to hit, right?
00:33:43Like, you need him to be a part of that bottom of the lineup and give you somewhat better production.
00:33:47So, I guess my question is, is it okay to rely on Ascara and Wells as your two catchers?
00:33:54Or do you think about maybe potentially moving Ben Rice as a catcher full-time?
00:33:59I don't know.
00:34:00Like, could you go with another first base option?
00:34:02Like, there's definitely some flexibility there if you wanted to go a different route.
00:34:06I think it's such a great question, Ryan.
00:34:10I think it's the thing about this is, again, we're at a very early point.
00:34:16I bet you that one of the things when and if Brian Cashman talks is I wouldn't be surprised if he defines Rice's role more definitively.
00:34:31And I think because what you – you are going to ask him to play first base a ton.
00:34:37I think you should say to him, you are a first baseman and an emergency catcher.
00:34:44Yep.
00:34:44Like, if you want to do a little training catching, fine.
00:34:47But, like, put your time and effort into becoming major league average at first.
00:34:51Catching has never been more difficult than it is now mentally and physically.
00:34:56Physically, the ball has never been thrown harder with more movement by different shapes and sizes of the pitchers and the pitchers, right?
00:35:05So, it's physically hard to catch.
00:35:08And mentally, you know, like, I came up in a game where it would be like, oh, we're playing the Orioles.
00:35:17You know, you want to go up and in and down and away.
00:35:19On who?
00:35:20On the Orioles.
00:35:22The lineup.
00:35:22Now, it's like the first time around with Gunnar Henderson, here's what we want to do.
00:35:30Here's his red zones, his cool zones, the whole thing.
00:35:33Here's what we'd like to do with Jackson Holiday.
00:35:37You know, and so mentally, I think the game is tougher.
00:35:41I think it's really affected Austin Wells' offense, the burden of it.
00:35:46And so, I would take Ben Rice and go, you're the first baseman and take that off.
00:35:50I think they will probably do that.
00:35:54And again, that's more reporting and hunch.
00:35:59Little reporting, bigger hunch that he has such a burden to become a good first baseman and hit fifth, probably.
00:36:08That's what will happen.
00:36:09I think that they know they got a little too left-handed, unbelievably, after so many years last year.
00:36:16And if they could find the right – I know that this is one of the ones where Yankee fans might go, really?
00:36:22I think that J.C. Esquerra is liked in the industry.
00:36:26Not where you get a big return, but where I think you could probably turn J.C. Esquerra into the right-hand-hitting version of J.C. Esquerra.
00:36:33Like, for a team that's like, oh, we have right-hand-hitting catcher X, we'd like his backup who's going to start 55 games to be a left-hand hitter.
00:36:43We kind of like that profile of J.C. Esquerra.
00:36:46Good back-to-ball, exit velocity, whatever lit up the Christmas tree in the past about this player.
00:36:54And so, I think the Yankees probably can turn him into the right-handed version of him.
00:36:59Again, suspicion as a fact, and that's one of the ways they do it.
00:37:07But Ryan, one of the themes of these casts right up to opening day last year, and I think maybe even a little further,
00:37:15was, you know, the Yankees are kind of beholden to Dominguez, Volpe, Rice, and Wells.
00:37:20And I think we could start it again.
00:37:23Because if the goal is to be 275, 280 million, and win 90-plus games, those guys, or the majority of those guys, have to be good players.
00:37:40Yeah.
00:37:40And I think the Yankees would argue they were some – that Rice was a very good player last year.
00:37:49Wells did the most important thing a catcher could do, which is catch well, and hit home runs.
00:37:55And they feel like there's probably untapped offense, and they're especially batting average, that he could get to.
00:38:01So, I know how polarizing Volpe is.
00:38:05I believe he's going – when he's healthy, he's going to be the shortstop.
00:38:09Again, they're not going to go get another shortstop in this mark.
00:38:12Well, they might get a secondary complementary guy to work with Caballero, but I think Volpe's going to do it.
00:38:18And the one that I'm not positive about is Dominguez because I think under – let's say Trent Grisham does take the qualifying offer and they re-sign Bellinger.
00:38:31I think that they probably feel they can trade Grisham in that situation.
00:38:36Another reason why he probably doesn't take the qualifying offer.
00:38:38It's like, hey, I'm coming back to play for you or I'm not coming back.
00:38:41But in that situation – so, if you're locked into, again, Judge Grisham Bellinger, then does Dominguez become a trade chip or did his value slip last year and you want him to play some more?
00:38:54I think that there's a 20-homer, 25-steal guy in Dominguez.
00:39:03I think he handled his benching incredibly well for a 22-year-old last year.
00:39:08And I think I might have done this on the show before.
00:39:11If I did, I'm sorry, but I'll point it out again.
00:39:15And I think it's a real checkmark for Ahmad Rosario, but it's a specific checkmark I'd give to Dominguez also.
00:39:22Rosario is one of those guys – if you showed up three and a half, four hours before the game, he goes out on the field almost every day to do something.
00:39:30He's a – I knew him when he was a kid with the Mets.
00:39:32Like, he's turned into a really good veteran presence guy besides having a real skill to hit left-handed and handle second and third well and maybe even go to the outfield if you need him.
00:39:43I would dare say he should work some at first base this offseason if the Yankees – because if the Yankees are going to resign him, maybe he's that guy to do it.
00:39:54But if you were there late in the year, Dominguez isn't playing, he was like a puppy dog at three and a half, four hours before the game.
00:40:03Rosario – just where good leadership matters, following Rosario on the field to do extra work every day.
00:40:09And so can I – my suspicion is that Dominguez's baseball instincts are not great and that it will be hard for him to get much better.
00:40:19On the other hand, he does not – did not have a ton of reps as an amateur.
00:40:25You know, he did not have a ton of reps, COVID included and injury included, in the minor leagues.
00:40:30He is doing the right thing this offseason by going and playing winter ball to try to get as many reps in left field and hitting right-handed as possible.
00:40:39Can he, Ben Rice it, and be major league average in a corner outfield position?
00:40:46Major league average.
00:40:48He certainly has the athleticism to do it.
00:40:51And do the Yankees not want to give up on him before seeing a guy get more reps who's 22?
00:41:03He's going to play 23 next year, right, Dominguez?
00:41:06So I think, Ryan, one of the themes when we do shows between now and the first pitch of the 2026 season,
00:41:13which will be beyond us quicker than you think because the offseason always goes way too fast,
00:41:18and is they need these young guys, and maybe we'll include the name Spencer Jones in it.
00:41:24We'll probably include the name Cam Schlittler in it, that what we saw last year needs to be real,
00:41:32that they need Will Warrant to, again, be a workhorse probably,
00:41:36and that they probably need somebody from Carlos Lagrange and Elmer Cruz Rodriguez,
00:41:41one or both of them at some point, to be something Schlittler-like during the course of the season.
00:41:47They are a team that's going to need their feeder system, which I know Yankee fans think is bad,
00:41:56isn't, like actually produces players at a pretty good rate comparatively,
00:42:02especially when you don't draft at the very top of the draft.
00:42:07Everything is by comparison and by reality.
00:42:11They need that feeder system to, again, do a good job because it isn't going to be a Dodger
00:42:19or Steve Cohen situation financially.
00:42:22It will offer a lot, but I think there's not a 0% chance that either,
00:42:33that more likely the Blue Jays, but maybe the Red Sox payroll is very,
00:42:37very similar to the Yankees by the end of this offseason.
00:42:42That's interesting stuff, Joel.
00:42:44And that brings me to the third question.
00:42:47And I wouldn't be surprised if Kyle Tucker was a Blue Jay,
00:42:49which will really piss off Yankee fans.
00:42:52Yeah.
00:42:52I mean, look, we're seeing the rest of the market.
00:42:55We're, the rumor mill is churning that the rest of the AL East is going to be aggressive,
00:43:01but we're seeing that the Yankees just, I don't know about the Rays, but I think that
00:43:06the Red Sox and the Orioles are going to spend more than they traditionally spend,
00:43:11or at least attempt to spend more tradition than they traditionally spend this offseason.
00:43:15I think the Red Sox aren't going to just talk about it this offseason.
00:43:19I think they're going to do everything possible to get a right-hand power bat.
00:43:22If that guy plays first base, I don't think it's going to be Alonzo.
00:43:26That would be fascinating to see him with the green monster.
00:43:28But, you know, I think they really value, they have been a bad defensive team for a while.
00:43:35They got out of Devers.
00:43:37I'm not sure they want, I think they'd like, in a perfect world, a right-hand hitter who
00:43:41can really field that position.
00:43:43Again, good luck finding that in the marketplace.
00:43:46And a kind of high-end starting pitcher to be number two behind Crochet.
00:43:50I think that's what the Red Sox are looking to do this offseason.
00:43:55But I think that the Blue Jays are going to be very aggressive.
00:43:58I think the Red Sox are going to be aggressive.
00:43:59And I think the Orioles, within the parameters that they'll live under, are going to be more
00:44:04aggressive than normal.
00:44:06And we'll see what a new owner in Tampa does, which I think will be spend some, but it's
00:44:13still going to be.
00:44:14Well, it's funny you say those teams are going to be aggressive, but we're talking about
00:44:19what exactly the Yankees are going to be doing.
00:44:21So I think one of the things you just highlighted was they need the young infusion of talent
00:44:26to take a step forward because it doesn't seem like they're going to be as aggressive
00:44:31in the free agent market.
00:44:32But I do want to ask you about this outfield like you just highlighted.
00:44:37Let's say in this world here that I'm laying out for this next question, judges him right.
00:44:43They re-sign Bellinger and Grisham does not come back.
00:44:47He doesn't take the qualifying offer and ends up signing a deal somewhere else that leaves
00:44:51Spencer Jones and Jason Dominguez there.
00:44:55Do you see both of those guys playing significant amount of time in the outfield for the Yankees
00:45:01in that type of scenario?
00:45:03Not to begin the season.
00:45:05I think what would happen in the scenario you just laid out is the Yankees would then
00:45:11through either free agency or trade, try to acquire a right-hand hitting outfielder
00:45:16who has the ability to play center field.
00:45:21Because I think that in the best case scenario, Bellinger wouldn't have to do it every day.
00:45:27And they will probably, again, like to see Dominguez hit against lefty pitching before
00:45:34they decide that that righty hitter will play every time against lefties for Dominguez.
00:45:39Again, if that's the lineup, if Dominguez doesn't get traded, etc.
00:45:42And it's Dominguez Bellinger judge.
00:45:44I think they try to find another right-hand hitter.
00:45:47A year ago, like I'll give a name again, aggregators.
00:45:51I'm giving a name from who I liked a year ago.
00:45:53This guy had a terrible season.
00:45:55Can I say something about the aggregation?
00:45:57Go ahead.
00:45:58Because it caused some consternation.
00:45:59You know me.
00:46:00I'm not online in the way that people are online.
00:46:04So I find out things because they have to swell or whatever.
00:46:09We did a show and whether people know it or not, you and I don't really plan the shows.
00:46:15No.
00:46:15The shows are better.
00:46:16If I'm good at what I do, hopefully you think I'm good at what I do.
00:46:19I've been working and talking to lots of teams and I'm really digging down on the Yankees and
00:46:25Mets.
00:46:26That's my job.
00:46:27Hopefully I'm good at it.
00:46:28And if I can't answer your questions, the post should get somebody else.
00:46:31Like that's how I feel about it.
00:46:33Stop selling yourself off the show.
00:46:35I don't want you gone off the show.
00:46:36But like, you know what I mean?
00:46:38It's like, that's what I feel is I'm thinking about the Mets all the time.
00:46:41I'm thinking about the Yankees all the time.
00:46:42I'm thinking about the whole sport all the time.
00:46:44And like, I think the show is better where we don't overthink it.
00:46:49And you kind of, you represent the fan base and kind of like come in.
00:46:53You asked me last, I think it was the last show we did about Harper.
00:46:57And I said, maybe this isn't verbatim, but you hit me.
00:47:07I wasn't prepared for Bryce Harper.
00:47:09Like we had never talked about it.
00:47:11Yeah, no.
00:47:11And one of the things I actually said was, you said, would you do him for the Yankees?
00:47:18I explained why I didn't think it would work for the Yankees.
00:47:20But then you said, do you, some way you said, do you think he'll be traded?
00:47:23And I said, well, I wouldn't say anybody's 100% not to be traded.
00:47:28So who knows?
00:47:29And that was it.
00:47:30That was it.
00:47:31That was it.
00:47:32That was literally what I said.
00:47:33Somehow that got picked up as MLB insider says, Harper available for trades to the point where I saw Dave Dombrowski, the head of the Phillies yesterday, who I hadn't seen for a while.
00:47:45And again, Ryan, I think you've gotten to know me over the years.
00:47:48So better or worse, I don't go that way when there's a problem.
00:47:51I try to, I've done this business for all in this business a long time.
00:47:55Your reputation means everything.
00:47:56So I went up to him and I essentially said, Dave, I think I caused you some problems.
00:48:02And he said, yes.
00:48:04And I said, did you listen to what I said and not read what an aggregator said what I said?
00:48:11And he said, no.
00:48:12And I said, so I told him, this is what I actually said.
00:48:16And then one aggregator does this.
00:48:20And then the next aggregator tops it, but never goes back and listens to what was said.
00:48:29We had not prepared a show.
00:48:31So you hit me with Harper.
00:48:35The majority of it was like, if he was available, why I think he's a problematic guy to be acquired,
00:48:41his age, his maybe decline, his concern about his contract.
00:48:46Yes.
00:48:46The contract was the big part you hit on that.
00:48:48But all I said was like, like I might say about 99% of players, like, would I be surprised
00:48:55if a player got traded?
00:48:56You name the player.
00:48:58I'd be like, well, I mean, I guess anybody could be traded.
00:49:02Essentially, that's what I said about Bryce Harper.
00:49:04I didn't say he would be traded.
00:49:05I didn't say I hear he's going to be traded.
00:49:08I didn't say I think they should trade him.
00:49:10I'm not even sure that like I use trading as a verb in a sentence.
00:49:16Right?
00:49:16So anyway, this is why I'm so chagrined to talk about things because it's like I stay
00:49:24out of that world because it bothers me so much.
00:49:26But like in this one, it landed in my apartment.
00:49:30I'm dealing with this thing.
00:49:33Then I hear secondhand, like Harper then says, well, they're talking about me being traded.
00:49:37And I'm like, this is wag the dog crazy time.
00:49:40It's crazy out there, Joel.
00:49:42So anyway, so I'm always like worried now about saying, here's an example of a player
00:49:48I think they should be interested in that then gets turned into Yankees interested in or Yankees
00:49:54pursuing.
00:49:55Like they love that verb too.
00:49:57Like Yankees pursuing.
00:49:58Nope.
00:49:59Nope.
00:50:00This is Joel saying what he is.
00:50:02I'm the 31st GM.
00:50:03Yep.
00:50:03And if I ran the zoo, here's some things.
00:50:06So, so a year ago, to me, the perfect player would have been like Lane Thomas.
00:50:11Yeah.
00:50:12Who's a right-hand hitter, very good against lefty pitching, has some post-season experience,
00:50:17can move around the outfield, good base runner, can handle center field adequately.
00:50:23He had a lot of plantar fasciitis problems this year and his performance went way down.
00:50:29He is a free agent this offseason.
00:50:34I don't know what he's like, but if not him, a player like him, but again, I encourage people
00:50:41go run your finger down what that would be.
00:50:45Because I think they need a right-hand hitting outfielder to cover center field.
00:50:52Harrison Bader?
00:50:53But Harrison Bader, in this moment, like, I'm not going to, this will definitely get
00:50:59aggregated.
00:51:00I won't do what it is.
00:51:00I've been surprised what people think the number will be for him.
00:51:06For like, would you think it's like a one-year deal or you think it's maybe like multiple
00:51:09years?
00:51:09No, that's the thing.
00:51:10And I'm not even sure in some situations it's two years.
00:51:13Like, this is a supply-demand issue.
00:51:17We're standing here struggling to come up with who can fill this when he is still a
00:51:23relatively 30-ish, not 35 player.
00:51:27He has a defensive component.
00:51:29He can play center field, though I think he's aged out of being a really top-flight center
00:51:34fielder.
00:51:35He's, I think, an outstanding corner.
00:51:38And he's in a different age when there was a lot of offense in the sport.
00:51:43He might be a three-and-a-half outfielder.
00:51:45But in this sport, I don't think you'll name 30 to 40 outfielders.
00:51:49You'd want more.
00:51:50And so you're not going to get him for fourth outfielder prices or even outfielder prices
00:51:56in this marketplace.
00:51:58I threw him out because I think the Mets need a center fielder.
00:52:01Both New York teams need a center fielder.
00:52:04And I've thrown him out to executives here.
00:52:08And I've been like, really?
00:52:11And so I think he's going to do well.
00:52:14I also think he's going to see.
00:52:19Like, we were talking about this with Grisham.
00:52:22You don't get too many bites at the apple where your desire.
00:52:25Right?
00:52:25If the Yankees non-tender Trent Grisham last offseason, he gets like a one-year $5 to $8
00:52:32million contract someplace.
00:52:34A year later, and this is the thing where it's like, a year ago, we're wondering if we
00:52:40should non-tender you.
00:52:41Now, are you really a $75 million player?
00:52:44Should we believe in all this?
00:52:46You know, a year ago, Harrison Bader is fighting to get a one-year, $5 million-ish contract.
00:52:53A year later, is it too at fill in the blank?
00:52:57Maybe, but for the Yankees, unless you don't sign Bellinger and he is your starting center
00:53:06fielder, then you might have to pay the two or three years for it.
00:53:11Though, I think he's a lot of injury in his profile.
00:53:16And he's got a lot of not top-flight player in his profile.
00:53:24And so he's a real step down.
00:53:27I really think it's one of the reasons Bellinger is going to get paid someplace, maybe with the
00:53:32Yankees, because it's just supply and demand.
00:53:35Yep, and that raises the cost of the player if there's not that much supply for that player
00:53:41or that player profile that you're looking for.
00:53:44All right, so that was question three about Dominguez and Jones, if they could be potentially
00:53:49in the outfield.
00:53:50Question four, Joel, for this five burning questions for the Yankees' hot stove season.
00:53:54Again, Devin Williams and Luke Weaver, both guys, free agents.
00:53:59Edwin Diaz, also a free agent out there.
00:54:02The Yankees only have David Bednar and Tim Hill, guys you could rely on in the bullpen
00:54:06right now in those late innings, you could argue.
00:54:09And we know the wise guy has gone too.
00:54:12And this has put the Yankees' bullpen in question of how are they going to address this.
00:54:17Now, I know you're probably going to say, Ryan, they have found bullpen pieces in any sort
00:54:23of way, guys that you would never even expect to be high leverage guys that turn out to
00:54:27be high leverage guys.
00:54:29Are the Yankees going to be aggressive in the reliever market for one or two relievers
00:54:34to put there behind Bednar to really fortify it?
00:54:39Yeah, I mean, I think you're skimping on Duval as a guy who's pitched late in ball games.
00:54:45And Fernando Cruz is very trusted by the manager and he pitched late in games.
00:54:49He was one of the best strikeout pitchers in baseball.
00:54:51I think they begin this with four guys they believe in.
00:54:54Okay.
00:54:55My suspicion is, again, not knowing anything for sure, but I'm not exactly sure they're
00:55:02going to tender Mark Leiter Jr. a contract.
00:55:04I would suspect that they open up that money.
00:55:07I'm curious if they think Jake Cousins is going to come back from his elbow surgery and be a
00:55:13part of this.
00:55:14So I do think they're going to address the bullpen either through free agency or trades.
00:55:19I think they're going to add at least one guy.
00:55:22If you told me they didn't sign Bellinger, I still think they probably don't go to the
00:55:27top of the market for Diaz because I think that they've had chagrin about being at the
00:55:33top of the market with like Chapman and Britton.
00:55:36And they feel like it's not – so I think – let's again use – I try to make this
00:55:45dispassionate for Yankee fans a little – and the other team I cover all the time is the
00:55:49Mets, right?
00:55:50If you sat David Stearns down and said philosophically walk me through things you believe, I think
00:56:00he'd say you really have to save your big money for starting pitching, catching, short
00:56:07stop, center field, and guys who hit the ball out of the ballpark with a high consistency.
00:56:13And even then, that last part he'd be like, but I'd love if they could really – and third
00:56:18base, and third base.
00:56:20Don't get caught up spending a lot of money on relief pitchers, corner outfielders in
00:56:26first base and DH.
00:56:28Like I think – there's no absolutes in the game.
00:56:31That guy gave $765 million to Juan Soto.
00:56:35But I would say that Juan Soto is a generational player.
00:56:39Like he's among the five most productive 26 and younger players in the history of the
00:56:44game.
00:56:44So I guess if that comes along in another position, you do it.
00:56:48I think if money is an issue, you – and you operate in an analytic era, you don't overspend
00:56:59money in those areas.
00:57:00And so I think the Yankees won't do that because they really did get pretty good closing from
00:57:11Clay Holmes for a long time, who they found at the margins in a trade, from Luke Weaver
00:57:16for a while, who they literally found on waivers, right, from David Bednar, who they made
00:57:22a trade for and isn't making a ton of money.
00:57:25And I think that they don't think this is the area to apply the money.
00:57:30Now, again, if they miss out on Bellinger, could I see a different plan B?
00:57:37Maybe.
00:57:39I actually think – if you told me the Mets could only sign Diaz or Alonzo, I think they
00:57:44have to sign Diaz.
00:57:45Because if you think the Yankees are starting short shrift in the bullpen, and I think they're
00:57:50starting with four pretty good arms in the bullpen, the Mets are starting with – help me
00:57:55here – Brooks Raley.
00:57:57Brooks Raley.
00:57:59Who else?
00:58:00Minter.
00:58:02Minter might not start the season on time.
00:58:03Right.
00:58:04He might not start on time.
00:58:05But, I mean, he's good.
00:58:06Okay.
00:58:06He's good.
00:58:07He's good.
00:58:07They got the two lefties locked out.
00:58:09Yeah.
00:58:10The next guy's helped me here.
00:58:13Right.
00:58:14No, you're not missing anyone.
00:58:16So, like, if you told me that you had more unlimited funds and you were starting with Brooks Raley and
00:58:25crossing your fingers on A.J.
00:58:26Minter, I would make sure I'd sign Edwin Diaz if I were the Mets.
00:58:30Yeah.
00:58:31Like, I feel like that's almost a priority for them.
00:58:34If you told me, like, what's your priority list, him and Alonzo?
00:58:37And I'm not saying don't sign Alonzo.
00:58:40It's Steve Cohen.
00:58:41Do whatever the hell you want.
00:58:43But I actually, if you told me, I only could sign one.
00:58:45I feel like I could find something that puts first base together, especially if you use the whole player and say,
00:58:53there's going to be a little less offense, but we're going to really lock down the position.
00:58:56I think you can do that.
00:58:57I think that can be found in the marketplace.
00:59:00I think the Yankees will add no less than a reliever and probably be very active in that six-year minor league free agent,
00:59:12smaller player market where they seem to find a guy or two over the years and hope they find the next Tim Hill,
00:59:21the next Jake Cousins, the next Ian Hamilton, the next Clay Holmes that they've done over the years.
00:59:28But if you told me they did something smaller for someone they like, why is the guy, again,
00:59:40I have no idea if they're interested in this player, zero, if they're interested in the player.
00:59:46But if you told me they spent two at 20-ish, something like that, on Brad Keller, who just had a very good year for the Cubs.
00:59:54And again, I use him because I've talked to enough executives to know he lights up the Christmas tree.
01:00:01Whatever it is that this group of people like, shape, movement, velocity, whatever it is, he's going to have a bigger –
01:00:10he'll be a guy he's going to sign.
01:00:12Maybe it will be for three years because of it where people are going to go, wait, Brad Keller got what?
01:00:16And I think that they're much more willing to do that.
01:00:22I don't think it's impossible that that's going to be a number in generally the Luke Weaver area where they feel like if they really believe that the late season problems were full-on tipping
01:00:33and they're like, we know Luke can play here and that number is a number that shoehorns into our desires, I don't think it's impossible he comes back, right?
01:00:46So I think they're going to be more in that bucket where it's like a guy who they like on the numbers.
01:00:57But they – I mean, Diaz is probably going to get – does he get less than four at 80?
01:01:03I feel like that's a baseline for him.
01:01:06Yeah.
01:01:06And that's – you know, he's a – and I love the player.
01:01:12And if you deal with Edwin Diaz in the clubhouse, like I hope he comes back.
01:01:15Yeah.
01:01:16Good to deal with.
01:01:17Like so –
01:01:18He's electric stuff.
01:01:20Electric stuff.
01:01:21But it is.
01:01:22He's like accumulating.
01:01:23He's in his 30s now.
01:01:24Yeah.
01:01:25He's a high-velocity guy.
01:01:26What happens if he loses a mile or two during the contract?
01:01:29At most, it's 60 innings.
01:01:32You're paying $20 million plus a year for 60 innings.
01:01:36Now it's 60 incredible innings.
01:01:38And if you don't have it, you really don't have it.
01:01:40It's like having a bad field goal kicker.
01:01:42Like suddenly you've got to win the game with a 44-yard field goal with three seconds left.
01:01:46And you go, shit, we hate that guy.
01:01:49You know?
01:01:51So –
01:01:52By Devin Williams.
01:01:54But I feel very much – yeah, and I think Devin Williams will sign someplace else.
01:01:58Oh, you don't think he's coming back, yeah?
01:02:00Oh, I don't think that this is a marriage that really worked.
01:02:04Oh, so you weren't a believer in the late whatever talk you want to talk about him.
01:02:08I think Devin Williams is a good relief pitcher.
01:02:13Actually better than that.
01:02:14I don't think that this was like a comfortable marriage all year.
01:02:18And I'm just like – they'll be like – yeah.
01:02:22And I think some of these failed relievers this year, like him and Helsley, for example, I think we're going to go, wait, the guy who sucked for the Mets just got what in the free agent market?
01:02:35Oh, yeah, yeah.
01:02:36Because the – like one of the things if you like say read like – you know, Saris does this a lot on the – like the stuff plus, which a lot of front of – like Ryan Helsley is a stuff plus guy.
01:02:49Yeah.
01:02:49And so everyone is going to be like, oh, I can explain.
01:02:51He was tipping with the Mets.
01:02:53We shouldn't put him in a big market like New York.
01:02:55But here in fill in the blank with a lot less population and fewer reporters covering it, look at this stuff plus.
01:03:02It's going to be whatever.
01:03:03And I think – I think he's going to get a good – I mean I don't think he's going to get what he would have gotten a year ago.
01:03:09Again, this is like the perception we were talking about.
01:03:11Trent Grisham a year ago gets this.
01:03:13Today he gets this.
01:03:14Ryan Helsley and Devin Williams, if they're free agents after last season, like we're talking about – and that's a little bit of the danger.
01:03:21It's the most volatile job on the field, and that's another reason why most front officers don't want to give that kind of money.
01:03:29Now, I think Edwin Diaz has probably shown he's resistant to the volatility, that when he's healthy, he's just going to be good.
01:03:36But for how long – and it's 60 innings.
01:03:39It's like how – as great as your field goal kicker is, he doesn't make more – like I was talking about the positions on the baseball field, catcher, starting pitcher, center field, shortstop.
01:03:49But, you know, cornerback – lockdown cornerback, pass rushing defensive end, great elite receiver, quarterback obviously.
01:03:57Like that's where you've got to spend your big money.
01:03:59And I think most teams are like – that version of that in baseball doesn't include closer.
01:04:03Closer is your field goal kicker.
01:04:05Like you want to spend a good amount to make sure you get a guy who can kick the field goal.
01:04:09But as we also see, like those guys, there's a handful of those guys who are good every year.
01:04:15And then there's guys who hit 87% one year and then suddenly are missing all the extra points.
01:04:20Yeah, yeah.
01:04:21And so like I think that there's a similarity to those jobs.
01:04:24Yeah, look.
01:04:24I mean the reason why I ask about the bullpen is because – and I hear you on the four guys that you may – you know, they feel comfortable with.
01:04:30It's also you're asking for David Bednar to now be the full-time closer again next year.
01:04:35But he was good.
01:04:36He was good.
01:04:37No, but again, there's always the possibility of now it's full-time.
01:04:41You're taking on that role with the Yankees.
01:04:42And we know how they've abused closers in the past where they go to them early and often.
01:04:47And they'll get asking for more than three outs.
01:04:49So I just wonder the workload on Bednar, do you want to fortify that position?
01:04:53Because this goes to our fifth and final question, Joel Sherman, the starting rotation.
01:04:58There is a lot of question marks around the starting rotation.
01:05:01And I wonder if one way to pivot about the Yankees offseason is if they do address the bullpen
01:05:06and fortify that even further, you make that starting rotation question marks a little less worrisome.
01:05:12But at the end of the day, Garrett Cole is coming off Tommy John.
01:05:16Clark Schmidt is coming off Tommy John.
01:05:17We're not going to see him until late in the year.
01:05:18Carlos Rodon, we found out, is getting surgery.
01:05:20So he's going to be out for a couple, like a month or so.
01:05:23And let's not forget, Max Freed stayed completely healthy, which is not the norm for him as of late.
01:05:29And you're asking him at age 32 or 31, I believe, to go healthy for the entire year again, be your ace again.
01:05:37And then you're asking for Cam Schlittler to prove that the playoffs wasn't a, you know, wasn't a farce.
01:05:43And that this is going to be reality here for him this year.
01:05:47So, and Luis Hill, we have no idea what could be.
01:05:49And Will Warren was really, really great for 33 starts.
01:05:52And I read your Sports Plus piece.
01:05:53It was awesome laying this all out.
01:05:56How aggressive should they be?
01:05:57MyPost.com.
01:05:58MyPost.com.
01:05:59Go to PostSports Plus.
01:06:00Subscribe.
01:06:01I'll put my kids through college.
01:06:02Come on, man.
01:06:02That's right.
01:06:03That's right.
01:06:03PostSportsPlus.com.
01:06:04Subscribe here.
01:06:06Go read there.
01:06:07Come on.
01:06:08Lots of great information there from Joel Sherman.
01:06:09So, yeah, you kind of hit the thing is, and I recommend it in that piece.
01:06:15Again, if I was the 31st GM or Brian Cashman asked my opinion, which he won't.
01:06:19And I do think they're going to add a starter.
01:06:21Okay.
01:06:22I kind of, my gut feeling is they're not going to add the kind of starter I would add if I were them.
01:06:29Right?
01:06:30I think they're going to add a swing Manny starter to kind of covers, but could go to the pen if they get healthy.
01:06:38Ryan, I was wrong about this last year.
01:06:42I've got to admit it, is I spent a lot of time on this cast talking about what worried me the most about the Yankees was the starting rotation.
01:06:50Yeah.
01:06:51Because it was so thin and fragile and was always one more three-week injury even away from, they might fall out of the playoffs if they got the wrong injury here at the wrong time.
01:07:04And they have a scenario where they could end up with a lot of starting pitching next year.
01:07:10But that is one of the great fallacies of the world is that it's all going to get healthy and kind of come together at the right time.
01:07:19Now, when I've talked to Yankee people, they consistently say that Gary Cole has hit all his benchmarks.
01:07:28And if I gambled, which I don't, and you said, would you gamble on Gary Cole getting back in 14 months or less or more?
01:07:39I would probably say less, right?
01:07:42That's like mid-May.
01:07:45Now, he had surgery, I think it was March 11th.
01:07:47So this would be like May 11th, would be 14 months.
01:07:50Would you go for 14 months or less?
01:07:53I kind of believe in the guy.
01:07:54I believe in the guy knowing his body.
01:07:56I believe in the guy's work ethic.
01:07:58I believe in his ambitions to get to the Hall of Fame and be a historic pitcher.
01:08:02Uh, and so I would, but I think I would say many very positive things about Shane Bieber, who had surgery in April of 2024 and did not pitch in a major league game until late August of this year.
01:08:18Like these are fingerprints.
01:08:20They are not, Hey, you have Tommy John surgery and you could return the, the, the word on Tommy John surgery.
01:08:26Now is if you talk to people in the game, they say you started 12 months, everyone's going to get 12 months.
01:08:31Whether you do the internal brace, whatever the procedure, and then it's, what else do you need beyond 12 months?
01:08:38So that's a thing.
01:08:40Maybe Garrett Cole needs 13 months and he will return.
01:08:45And then the question is like return to what he might not be his full self until 2027.
01:08:51Like, because velocity might come back, but feel or something might not.
01:08:56So you have, have that.
01:08:58Rodan had loose bodies, uh, removed from his elbow.
01:09:01So again, I think the target date is about May 1st for him.
01:09:06Willie, I don't know, but you're going to begin the season down those two guys, you know, a season after free through the most innings of his career and we'll pitch it.
01:09:15I think 32 next year after Schlittler and Warren through the most innings of their professional life, especially Warren went way beyond it.
01:09:22Luis Hill is like a human injury waiting to happen in his career and did not finish the season.
01:09:29Well, like, you know, you could still believe in Luis Hill.
01:09:31So, you know, that's the kind of like group.
01:09:35And I think they feel that Carlos Lagrange and Elma Cruz Rodriguez have a chance to be Schlittler-like and join.
01:09:42But that's a June, July, August thing.
01:09:45They are going to start the season at the end of March.
01:09:49And I think they talk, they're talking about Clark Schmidt second half next year.
01:09:53So let's say August 1st.
01:09:55Again, good luck.
01:09:57You know, that's like 14 months out from surgery, 13, 14 months.
01:10:00We'll see.
01:10:02And I just think in this area, five last year where it was like, well, Stroman never worked and Cole missed the whole year and he'll miss four months.
01:10:13And they just had a lot of shit go right.
01:10:15Warren, who I thought was one of their most valuable players by just making 33 starts, which was tied for the American League.
01:10:23League lead.
01:10:24And then probably 25, 26 of them handed the ball to Boone with a chance for the Yankees to win.
01:10:29Like that was incredibly valuable because if not him, who?
01:10:32Schlittler, I mean, you mentioned the playoffs.
01:10:34Schlittler was a high-end starter from the moment he kind of showed up to the end of the season.
01:10:40Like you want to believe in that.
01:10:41Again, great.
01:10:44You know, Rodon made like 33 starts last year.
01:10:46They're also like they kind of like the amount of starts they got from Freed, Rodon, and Warren, the gift of Schlittler and getting Hill back kind of just in time allowed them to kind of save their season.
01:11:01They did not trade for a starting pitcher in the market at the trade deadline.
01:11:05I think that they've got to go and get a starting pitcher.
01:11:10Yeah.
01:11:11Not a Ryan Yarborough.
01:11:13No.
01:11:13Not a swing guy.
01:11:14You know, the guy who would be perfect for them, again, arbitrator, aggregator schmucks.
01:11:21Don't.
01:11:22I won't stop you.
01:11:24But, like, Clay Holmes is almost the perfect guy for them if you think about it because we just watched him pitch a whole season and be above average as a major league starter at 160 innings.
01:11:36But, you know, if everybody came back, which they won't, but if it did, if they had the pitching miracle and Cole got healthy by May 1st and Rodon was healthy by May 1st and Schmidt came and Elma Cruz Rodriguez was great and they have to maybe figure out and whatever.
01:11:51Cam Schlutler stays healthy and is an ace.
01:11:53Max Brees stays healthy.
01:11:55Right.
01:11:55Like, they all – it all works.
01:11:57Well, you've seen proof of concept because Clay Holmes was a terrific relief pitcher here.
01:12:01So you could put him in the pen.
01:12:02Like, so somebody like him, I don't think the Mets are giving him away by any stretch of the imagination.
01:12:08So – but, like, that's the perfect guy is somebody better than Yarborough who you know could start.
01:12:16And so – but I kind of think they're not.
01:12:18I think this is a place I wouldn't skimp.
01:12:21Yeah.
01:12:21I agree with you.
01:12:22I would address it.
01:12:25And if I'm in a situation where I – like, bless me, if I have to have a sentence during the year where I'm like, I have too much starting pitching, you're not going to have it.
01:12:36And the other thing I'll throw in is the Yankees have to have some arrogance about them.
01:12:42Now, they're in a much tougher situation than the Dodgers.
01:12:45But the arrogance of the Dodgers was we're in the playoffs.
01:12:48And they believed that on March 27th when the season began last year.
01:12:51I think the season began earlier for them because I think they were in Japan.
01:12:54But in March, they're like, we're in the playoffs.
01:12:56I was in their camp in early March.
01:13:00I let Shohei Otani throw a bullpen.
01:13:04Like, if they wanted Shohei Otani to start on opening day, he could have started.
01:13:08Absolutely.
01:13:08I believe that.
01:13:09They were talking about last year when they were running out of pitching in the postseason in 2024 against the Yankees.
01:13:15They were like, can he pitch?
01:13:18So I know he could have pitched to begin the season.
01:13:23They're like, we're in the playoffs.
01:13:25We're probably going to get 100-ish innings out of this guy this year post-Tommy John surgery.
01:13:30The 100 we want includes October.
01:13:33I think the Yankees have to begin with that arrogance about Cole.
01:13:36Could not agree more.
01:13:37Like, make sure the bullets aren't wasted in April, May, and June.
01:13:41No one cares about those months.
01:13:42Well, they do.
01:13:44You can't because I think the AL East is good.
01:13:46But wouldn't you agree with the way that it's gone the last three years for the Yankees team?
01:13:51Four or five, if you want to go about it.
01:13:53They start off hot, but then it becomes this mid-school.
01:13:55But you don't want to start off Cole just for the hell of it now.
01:13:59Because that's why I'm saying I would go get a starting pitcher to avoid Cole and help Cole, which is don't rush.
01:14:09The 120 innings we need begins June 1st, June 15th.
01:14:15So, like, don't rush.
01:14:17We want, like, because, look, if it worked perfect, it never does.
01:14:22But if it worked perfect and you had Cole at his best, Schlittler at his best, Fried at his best, Rodon at his best, Hill at his best, Schmidt at his best, and whichever celebrity guy I just put on their roster at their best, on October 1st, that's how you could win a World Series.
01:14:42That's how you become the Dodgers.
01:14:43Right?
01:14:44So, to me, I would not just do a plug-and-play starting pitcher.
01:14:50Completely agree.
01:14:50I would try in this marketplace.
01:14:53I understand you're not going to go to the very top.
01:14:55And this is not a marketplace where I love the very top.
01:14:58Even Michael King?
01:15:00But I don't think Michael King's at the top.
01:15:02And I like Michael King.
01:15:04Yeah.
01:15:05Here's my Michael King fear is he's not healthy a lot.
01:15:09And am I just doing the same thing where I'm weaving it?
01:15:13I actually think this version of a starting pitcher doesn't have to be – I'd like him to be as good as possible.
01:15:21But can I get a better version of Will Warren?
01:15:24Okay.
01:15:24In other words, I don't know exactly, but somebody who I feel great about every five days will take the ball, will get me 18 outs, and hand the ball to the manager.
01:15:37And even if it's four runs, three runs, because I think they have to – it can't be Marcus Stroman, Carlos Carrasco, Ryan.
01:15:45Like, it's got to be somebody who can go round and round.
01:15:49Now, if it's better, if you make a trade, like you use Dominguez to get a starter you really like, for example, or Spencer Jones to get a starter you really like, that's even better.
01:16:00That's where I want to go with this, Joel.
01:16:02So, I get you.
01:16:04I get you.
01:16:04I would not mess around with this.
01:16:07But you do have the navigation problem of Hill doesn't have options.
01:16:13Schmidt doesn't have options.
01:16:14Schlittler can go down.
01:16:16Schlittler could go down, but like –
01:16:17So, can Warren.
01:16:18What if he's your ace?
01:16:19I know.
01:16:20I know.
01:16:20So, if you don't send him down, you send Will Warren down.
01:16:22Right.
01:16:22But like – and again, I think your biggest problem should be what the numbers are.
01:16:26Yeah, exactly.
01:16:26Like, I don't care if I have too much pitching at that point.
01:16:29Like, it's great.
01:16:29It's a great problem to have.
01:16:31And you almost never – it never works out.
01:16:33Right.
01:16:33Like, you never have it.
01:16:35So, like the Dodgers played it perfectly, right?
01:16:39Because by the beginning of October – but you know what?
01:16:42You shake your head.
01:16:43But that was also their plan in 2024, and it all got hurt.
01:16:47Right.
01:16:47And it wasn't – so, like –
01:16:48I hear you.
01:16:49I'm saying it is the script I would try to follow is the 2025 Dodgers, and that's how
01:16:55hard it is.
01:16:56One year, it worked good for them.
01:16:59They figured out how to win the World Series both years.
01:17:01Yep.
01:17:01But one year, it didn't work, and they nearly lost because they just didn't have any starting
01:17:07pitching.
01:17:07And last year, I think Blake Snell could have come back quicker.
01:17:11I think Glasnow could have come back quicker.
01:17:13And I think the Dodgers are – there's healthy, and there's Dodger healthy.
01:17:19And Dodger healthy is not that you can go back out to the mound and throw 100 pitches.
01:17:26But one, you could throw it at peak performance.
01:17:29And two, we believe we're not pushing you early, and you're not going to be there on
01:17:35October 1st.
01:17:36I think that the way the NL West is set up and the talent of the Dodgers is, they know
01:17:42they're in the playoffs.
01:17:44I don't think the Yankees could take it completely for granted because Toronto's really good.
01:17:48I think Boston's going to be even better next year.
01:17:50I can't believe Baltimore won't be better than last year.
01:17:54Tampa Bay always maps its way to at least 74, 75 wins as a baseline, if not better than
01:17:59that.
01:18:00So as opposed to the Dodgers, I don't think the Yankees could just go, we're in.
01:18:04We'll be Cavalier about it.
01:18:05And that's why I would go get a starting pitcher.
01:18:07That's at least a superior version of Will Warren.
01:18:10And I've got Will Warren at AAA, right, with Cruz Rodriguez, with LaGrange.
01:18:16Yeah, with their young arms.
01:18:17Ultimately, Ben has – maybe with Chase Hampton coming back from his own surgery at some
01:18:23point, with Bryce Cunningham maybe coming up.
01:18:27Like the Yankees have an interesting group of starting pitching in the minors.
01:18:31It's not ready – besides the Schlittler Warren, it's not ready on April 1st.
01:18:37And therefore, you can't just slow play and be like, well, we're going to get all these
01:18:41gifts starting about May 1st with Rodon and Cole.
01:18:44Are you?
01:18:45No, you don't know.
01:18:46I mean, the Guardians thought they were getting Shane Bieber at some point.
01:18:48Yeah.
01:18:49They ended up trading him before he made a start last year.
01:18:52Right?
01:18:53Like these do not come with scripts.
01:18:56No, they don't.
01:18:56And what's fascinating about this, Joel, too, is that – and I'm going to throw – again,
01:19:02aggregators, Joel is not saying this is going to happen or not happen.
01:19:05I'm just throwing this name out here because I get this name in my head.
01:19:09And I'm like, he's out there potentially.
01:19:12And I've heard you talk about him a bunch.
01:19:14He's an ace.
01:19:15Cy Young winner.
01:19:16Tariq Skrubal.
01:19:17He's – I don't know why the Tigers would even do this.
01:19:20But if you –
01:19:21I don't think they're going to do it.
01:19:22If they do it, I don't think the Yankees could win that trade.
01:19:27And that's where I would say like –
01:19:29Because I think you –
01:19:30Tominguez, Jones, Lombard.
01:19:32I throw all those names out there even if it's for a one-year rental.
01:19:34And this is where the Yankees fan is going to argue to us, Joel, and to everyone else
01:19:38and as myself as a Yankee fan.
01:19:40Aaron Judge has maybe one or two more years of like prime.
01:19:43You're hoping that you have one more year of great greatness from him.
01:19:46And I hate that Brian Cashman answered this question like this.
01:19:50What are you talking about?
01:19:51Their pressure of building in Judge's prime window.
01:19:53It's like, well, no, you are trying to win a championship because the pressure is there.
01:19:58And you've come so close and yet you feel so far away right now because like you said,
01:20:02AL East is stacked against you.
01:20:04You have so many holes you're trying to adjust with this team.
01:20:07And the fact that you just laid out brilliantly about this starting pitching for this Yankees team
01:20:11and that you can't rely on Cole and Rodon to start off healthy at the start of next year.
01:20:17If you could get a Tariq Skubal, that would put you in the Dodgers territory of Cole and Rodon
01:20:23take as much time as you want because we have our ace.
01:20:25We have Max Freed as a two.
01:20:26And could you imagine what that rotation would look like if you had Cole and Rodon coming back to that?
01:20:32The possibility is insane there.
01:20:34I actually think if he's available in that way, the Mets can beat that offer.
01:20:41And I think they would.
01:20:41I think the Dodgers could beat that offer.
01:20:43And I think they would.
01:20:44I actually think the Dodgers are in the best position to get them.
01:20:47They have so much pitching depth.
01:20:50Crazy.
01:20:51It's got to be pitching.
01:20:52Like you mentioned Jones and Lombard.
01:20:54I'm not saying, by the way, Lombard's dad is the bench coach in Detroit.
01:20:57I'm not saying that they wouldn't be interested in these players.
01:21:00They might have to include him.
01:21:02But I think the trade for this player has to be, like, you might have to trade Schlittler.
01:21:08Yeah.
01:21:09You okay with that?
01:21:10I am because you're upgrading Schlittler for Skubel.
01:21:12So here's one thing.
01:21:14And we have to cut this.
01:21:16We have to end this.
01:21:17But I would do is, I know how frustrating Yankee fans are about how last season ended.
01:21:23And I know, head-to-head, Toronto outdid the Yankees last year, which is why they won the division and why they beat them.
01:21:33But the gap is not that great.
01:21:35Right?
01:21:36Like, and I think it's one of the reasons, like, the Mariners are going to be aggressive this offseason.
01:21:42I feel like there were, like, almost every team that was in the American League playoffs could have been the Blue Jays last year.
01:21:47I don't feel like there's a dominant team in the league, and the Blue Jays really, in every way, except for the one that counts, beat the Dodgers in the World Series.
01:21:59Like, if it was a boxing match, it's no less than a 10-9 round.
01:22:03It might have been a 10-8 round.
01:22:04They outplayed them in every way and didn't win the World Series.
01:22:06So, I'm, if I'm the Yankees, and I'm a Yankee fan, I would be like, I know there's always envy to, oh, we gotta get this guy.
01:22:15You're not that far away.
01:22:17Like, you're essentially bringing, if you got Bellinger, you're bringing back the core of a team that I think if you played the season 50 times, would have gotten to the World Series in 10 or 12 of them.
01:22:30Like, it's not outlandish.
01:22:33Like, Detroit would have gotten to the World Series in a few of them.
01:22:35Seattle would have gotten to the World Series in a few of them.
01:22:37Boston would have gotten in the World Series in a few of them.
01:22:39The American League, at that very top, didn't have a great team and had a bunch of really good ones.
01:22:45And the Yankees were among the really good ones.
01:22:47And so, I get it.
01:22:50If I'm in charge, I want to add as many great players as possible, and I appreciate that Yankee fans are always like, go get this guy, and go get this guy, and go get this guy.
01:22:59And it's why I began this by, you live in the world that is and not the one you want.
01:23:04And in the one that is, there's going to be a real cap on payroll, and the people in charge who did the Juan Soto trade for a one-year rental, I don't think are ready to do it again.
01:23:19Because, I dare say, if we start from, say, 2021 forward, no team has come close to trading the inventory of young players that the Yankees have.
01:23:31And I think they don't – I think that they're afraid of – if we do Scooble for a year, and then, believe me, if they do, and we're sitting and doing this a year from now, you'll be like, why aren't they giving him $500 million?
01:23:43But I would be like, you know what?
01:24:13If you trade for Scooble, I think you have to be like the Mets and believe we are also going to then – he's a Boris Klein.
01:24:20He's going to get to free agency.
01:24:21There's no preemptive let's do a deal.
01:24:23You've got to believe that you've got a shot, if not a good shot, to keep him.
01:24:29I don't think that the Yankees would.
01:24:31I think that there's other ways.
01:24:33Like, I think, like, at its best, a Cole, Fried, Schlittler, Rodon, Hill, Schmidt group could be a really good starting pitching group to win in the postseason.
01:24:45Ultimately, a lot of bad things happen to the Yankees.
01:24:48If Max Fried pitches well in the postseason, they might have advanced.
01:24:51Right.
01:24:52Like, with everything else.
01:24:53Oh, this, this is Max Fried who's going to finish in the top five for the Cy Young.
01:24:59Like, you know, like he had a bad day and the Yankees got eliminated.
01:25:03I think we think Max Fried is a very good starting pitcher.
01:25:05So, I think, I think they could have a good rotation.
01:25:08I would be very open to, and again, this guy makes 21 a year, but like, and I'm not sure that Minnesota wants to do it, but I like Pablo Lopez.
01:25:20If the medicals are good, he, he had injuries last year, because I believe that Pablo Lopez can start a playoff game.
01:25:27He's not just a plug and play guy.
01:25:30And I really, I like the pitcher.
01:25:33I've only heard unbelievable things about him as a guy, clubhouse, teammate, like all this stuff.
01:25:40By the way, Tarek Skubel, top, top of the line teammate.
01:25:43That's not, I hope nobody takes that wrong.
01:25:44But like, I think that there might be other ways to go.
01:25:48And I don't think the Yankees are going to do that.
01:25:50I don't, because I think they're going to do a, I, my God.
01:25:54Yeah.
01:25:54Without knowing it.
01:25:55Yeah.
01:25:56Because I could, is a plug and play guy.
01:25:59Yeah.
01:25:59And like, there's a, there's a group of former major leaguers who went to Japan, Anthony Kaye, Foster Griffin, Cody Pons, who became good starting pitchers in Japan.
01:26:12They're all coming back.
01:26:15They all are guys you can imagine going into a bullpen if you want.
01:26:19I think that those guys are all going to get signed to major league contracts of various sizes this off season.
01:26:25I have no idea if the Yankees like any of them, but let's pretend they like Anthony Kaye, the former Mets.
01:26:33He was a high draft pick of the Mets.
01:26:36I think he was in the Marcus Stroman trade for them, right?
01:26:40That's right.
01:26:40So if he's a power lefty out of the pen, if he, if, if you, if you get fully healthy.
01:26:49Yeah.
01:26:49Like he could be that.
01:26:50Do they like him?
01:26:51I have no idea.
01:26:52That's not going to stop aggregators here, but I, I have no idea if they like him or not, but I think that's what they're going to end up doing.
01:26:58Yeah.
01:26:58I'll go out a name.
01:26:59Steven Matz.
01:27:01Yeah.
01:27:02Like, could he start for a month and then become your power, you know, a lefty out?
01:27:07Yeah.
01:27:08It's another Marcus Stroman move though.
01:27:10Again, I'm with you on this one.
01:27:13I'm at with you a hundred percent.
01:27:15I might not go to the top of the market, but I would not screw around with a plug and play guy because you don't, you can't win the season in April and May, but you can get into a shitty spot.
01:27:27Like the Orioles did last year, waiting around for like, just delaying until Cole and Rodon come back.
01:27:33We can have setbacks.
01:27:34I would not screw around with it.
01:27:37Ryan, I would go get a story, a real starting pitcher who I believe, because here's the other thing is the four guys I mentioned.
01:27:46If, if, if you had a bet on it, uh, uh, um, freed Hill, Warren Schlittler.
01:27:53One of them is not going to start the season on time.
01:27:56Absolutely.
01:27:56You're already, now you're down to three.
01:27:58Yeah.
01:27:58So I would go get a real guy and then I might get a plug and play guy too.
01:28:03That's what I'm saying.
01:28:03You need at least, I was thinking two starters, Joel, for this off season, Joel Sherman.
01:28:07This was an awesome episode.
01:28:09Thank you for going through the exercise with us for five burning questions for the Yankees hot stove.
01:28:13I know there's a ton of work for you to do here in Las Vegas, um, to, to talk to GMs.
01:28:19I'm sure Brian Cash will have some things to say.
01:28:21Uh, and I know you'll have questions to ask for him and we're looking forward to your coverage throughout.
01:28:25And we're looking forward to the next time we get to catch up with you.
01:28:27But as always, Joel Sherman, we appreciate you.
01:28:29Sorry.
01:28:30I got to run and go do TV.
01:28:31Thanks, Joel.
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