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00:00If everything were perfect, Mason Miller would get out in the market, which I'm not real strong
00:06believer in. I'm not a strong believer he's going to get out. But that Mason Miller gets out in the
00:11marketplace and the Yankees do everything they can to win for him. And if they do, I think it means
00:19what they'll have left to use from their farm system is to get more secondary bats,
00:24to try to raise the floor of the offense. Hello and welcome to the Pinstripe Post. My name is Ryan
00:38Sampson, but he's the star of the show, Joel Sherman. Today is Monday, July 27th. Joel, since the last
00:43time we spoke to you, the Yankees took two out of three versus the Phillies over the weekend. They
00:46dropped last night, the third game of the set. But they are now three games back in the AL East
00:51as
00:51the Rays won three straight. We're learning more and more about this trade deadline. Who's
00:58emerging as potential sellers, buyers, as more baseball is being played. We're going to dive
01:03into the Cody Bellinger injury today and how that affects this team. And I'm curious to hear your
01:07thoughts about all of that before we get to any of that, as always, on a Monday morning. How are
01:12you
01:12doing today, sir? Good. Was that the Met game yesterday? You know, you do see how sensitive this
01:19time of year is. I'm not sure I have an accurate count. I think there were six major league scouts
01:26at the Met game yesterday. I'm not positive. You know, guys slipped by. You know, I've been around
01:31a long time. I know what most guys look like. I think there were six. And, you know, like on
01:36one
01:36hand, it was a good day for the Mets, right? Like Brooks Raley, who they'll almost certainly trade,
01:41you know, came in and did great. I thought Luis Robert took a good at-bat to draw a walk
01:46in a
01:46pinch hit situation. Tyrone Taylor, who, you know, maybe they'll get like a low AR, like,
01:52you know, whatever you get for Tyrone Taylor. But I think somebody will take him. He's been
01:56great since he came off the injured list on June 28th. He's a good guy in the clubhouse. He could
02:00play all three outfield positions. And he's hitting in a way that he really, like, it's probably fool's
02:06gold, but he's hit great since he's come off. You know, Luke Weaver got a shutout inning in part
02:13because he made one of the most athletic players you'll ever see a pitcher make. But the guy
02:17everybody came to see was Freddy Peralta. And Freddy Peralta didn't pitch well again. And, you know,
02:23like, what do you make of this? The Mets are almost, like, again, almost forced to trade him in the
02:28next. And now it's a week. You and I are doing this on Monday. It's about 10 o'clock in
02:33the morning
02:33when we're doing this. So it's a, it's a two, eight, uh, seven days and eight hours, eight hours
02:40from, from, from the deadline. And so I know teams are still jockeying, you know, for who are we? What
02:48are we? What are the packages? But like, like, you just see how sensitive it is. Like the Tigers
02:52lost two of three over the weekend to the Royals, to the Royals who are a clear seller. There's a
02:58moment
02:58where the Tigers feel like at least we're going to take two out of three, if not sweep and put
03:02our,
03:03they were one of the teams that have played the best since the beginning of June. And now they
03:07fall back again. And, you know, probably from 20,000 feet, the right thing to do is trade Tarek
03:12Scooble. But how about up close when you're still only like three, four games out of a, you know,
03:17a playoff spot and you have Scooble. So you see how sensitive it all is. Uh, and you know, to
03:23your
03:23point, one day you're like, at least if you're the Yankees, we have Cody Bellinger. And then at least
03:30through the deadline, you do not. And, uh, you know, there's still no exact word on Stanton.
03:36They're still obviously the most important, no exact word on judge. There's still no exact word
03:41on Rodon. These are all valuable guys for the Yankees to make what I feel like is probably in
03:48their thought, what needs to happen now, which is have a good trade deadline, get healthy. And like
03:54last season, storm late August and September and see if, you know, the Rays have really surprised
04:01everyone this year with how, I don't think they surprised them. They thought they were going to
04:05be really good last year and they weren't. I think that this is the version of the team they thought
04:09they were going to have last year. Um, and so, uh, I think you've got to treat the Rays as
04:16a team that
04:16is going to be aggressive at this deadline and get to at least 90 wins. And the Yankees better figure
04:22out a way to get more than that. And maybe a lot more than that, the way the Rays are
04:26playing.
04:26And by the way, the Red Sox are playing. And so, uh, that was a long winded way of saying
04:31it's an
04:31interesting week and there's not going to be a ton of sleep during the week. No, I'm sure not. Uh,
04:36lots of caffeine for Joel and myself as well, but, uh, exactly. Yeah. I got mine right here too, buddy.
04:43Look, uh, so I, I, I am interested because right. Like it was a positive weekend in terms of you
04:50took
04:50two out of three versus the Phillies team. You know, you would think that they're potentially
04:53a playoff team and the NL is stronger than the AL. So, and there were two improbable wins. You
04:57could call them too. I mean, they were close games. Friday night's game, one, nothing. Camp
05:01Schleller pitches an absolute gem and they, it was nails and grits. It felt like a playoff game,
05:05Joel. And I was watching that one Friday night, Saturday, again, close game, you know, and they,
05:10they win again, but the Bellinger news, it feels like it put a little bit of damper on what you
05:16got
05:16out of this weekend because let's face it. You just said it. Bellinger judge stand. Joel,
05:24that's your three, four, five hitters that are out now with injury. And it puts more pressure.
05:29I would throw in. Can I say that I would throw in Rodan because while your hitters are out,
05:34the Yankees won on Friday and Saturday because they didn't give up run. Yeah. And you're in a period
05:39right now where you're going to have to win low scoring games. You saw Will Warren, let a game get
05:45away
05:45and the Yankees couldn't win that game. And so, and you see what happens is when a game gets away,
05:53that's when he brings in, you know, Boone like knows that he doesn't have enough offense now to
05:58chase it with his best relievers and doesn't want to burn them out. And like, even when he gets to
06:03six, three, he has to live with, and by the way, that was as good as the balls pitched all
06:08year in a
06:09actual close game. Probably he, he got to live another day with Duvall, but then, you know,
06:14Volpe makes a terrible error to open things up, uh, in the next inning. Uh, and Yarborough, uh, you
06:20know, again, who I think has a not 0% chance of not being on the team on August 4th.
06:25I think they're
06:26going to add relievers. I think they're going to try and, and look, he might make it through August
06:30third, uh, because they have Clark Schmidt coming back. They hope at some point Rodan,
06:35and they could always decide later on, uh, you know, to let their long guy go. I do think they
06:41want to get to 13 pitchers. They trust, uh, it's one of the things you're seeing with the Dodgers a
06:46little bit. If you've watched the Dodgers, uh, Dave Roberts used the term yesterday and I'm going
06:51to mess it up. He just, in some ways he said his, his confidence tree has never had as many
06:56branches
06:57when it comes to his bullpen. Uh, and, uh, I think the Yankees are at four and a half relievers.
07:05They really believe in, depending on what you think of Tim Hill. And I still think they believe
07:10in Tim Hill to the extent that he's never going to be afraid and you're going to have to hit
07:14the
07:14ball to score off of him, you know, no strikeouts, but no walks. And you got to put the ball
07:19in play.
07:19And often it's on the ground. It's not been the best version of Tim Hill, but they got four guys.
07:24They're pretty confident about when a guy goes in, when they get Rodon back, does Warren go into
07:30the bullpen and they hope uses power arm to help there? Does Schmidt come back and help them there?
07:37So, uh, I think they want to add at least one and probably two to kind of get to the
07:41point where
07:42they have 13. They really believe in, uh, for the, for the play, for the stretch run in the playoffs.
07:48And that's how they're Ryan just now. That's how they're going to have to win games.
07:51Yes. They are. Forgive me for not knowing. I'm going to look it up after this. Cause I'm going
07:56to write about it a little for, uh, sports plus tomorrow. Uh, I think the Yankees are in a period
08:01where 32 and again, please don't hold me to this, but I think I'm pretty close. I think 32 of
08:06their
08:06last 34 games, they've scored five runs or fewer. They are giving no margin for error at all to their
08:14pitching staff. I mean, they're at zero. Now the good news is that Cole's looking better and better.
08:21Freed his look is back and looked good. Uh, Schlittler is right there with Dylan Cease is
08:28probably the AL Cy Young favorites. Uh, so you've got those three weathers had a good game this last
08:34game after not starting great. The guy Warren has regressed where lefties are beating them up badly
08:40again. You know, can he get it back together? I don't know. Um, but it's going to be replaced by
08:47Rodon at some point you hope, and they're going to have five guys probably going round and round.
08:53They have pretty high level of confidence in a strong bullpen that I think they'll augment in
08:58the next seven days. Uh, can they survive in advance until Bellinger judge Stanton and whoever
09:06bat or two, they potentially add in the next seven days comes to make this a better group? Because
09:13this is, you could no longer say they're in a bad period. Like this is now, uh, over a month
09:21of just inability to deliver runs. And sometimes it's strange because the Yankees still hit home
09:28runs and they steal bases though. Not as frequently in both in recent times, they should score more runs.
09:37They don't, there's not, I'll go back. There's not enough batting average in their lineup. There's
09:42too much dead, dead spots at the bottom. Uh, I think they have too many utility guys are playing,
09:47but that's what happens when you lose your front line is you have this. And, uh, look,
09:54one of the guys they were really counting on was Rosario against lefties. And that's gone really bad.
10:00And I think, you know, what I feel about the play about the person, right? Right. I think you said
10:05he
10:06works hard. He works his tail off and he's a great teammate. And I think hell has helped Dominguez
10:11kind of mature for whatever level of player getting out of Dominguez. I think Rosario gets an assist
10:16there. I think they've got to upgrade like, like until judge comes back, can it, can I, uh, this is
10:24going
10:24to get a little long where there's okay. If I think I, I offer the two ways the Yankees could
10:29go in the
10:29next week. Yeah. I think, well, this, this ties, this ties to what you're saying though. I think
10:34before, before you talk about this, Joel, the setup here is it ties into the fact that without judge
10:40and now Bellinger and Stan, there's more pressure on that offense and they need, I think the Yankees
10:45and you recognize there's a need to get more there for the lineup. And this is, this is what you're
10:51saying. They need to do pretty much. So I, so I think that there's probably when you think about,
10:57you know, they're a team that has heavily used the depth of their farm system over,
11:02especially the last four or five years to go get things. And so they still have stuff down there.
11:07And these are the Yankees and Brian Cashman has shown he'll make a bunch of trades, I think in
11:11the next seven days, uh, to try to address the areas of need. Um, but I think the two ways
11:20they could
11:20go, my sense from talking to people is if everything were perfect, Mason Miller would
11:27get out in the market, which I'm not real strong believer in. I'm not a strong believer. He's going
11:34to get out, but that Mason Miller gets out in the marketplace and the Yankees do everything they can
11:41to win for him. And if they do, I think it means what they'll have left to use from their
11:47farm system
11:48is to get more secondary bats to try to raise the floor of the offense. Like, can you get a
11:54better
11:54version of Rosario? Can you get a better backup catcher? Can you like, like, I think you raise the
12:01floor of the offense and hope that with the better run prevention, which gets even better with Miller,
12:06you hold on until Bellinger judge and they hope Stanton come back as best as possible. I think
12:13without Miller, they would then use their better prospects to see is Zach Netto really available.
12:22I mean, really available, like not just something like I've heard from people who've talked to the
12:26angels that he's available. You know what I mean? It's like available, like, but he's not somebody
12:35they have to move this second to maximize him. They can wait till the off season if they really want
12:40to
12:40do it and do it, but they can do it now. And I think that Netto's a guy who, uh,
12:46I think depending
12:47on who you talk to, like, there's a lot of people who've been, the angels have fired a lot of
12:52people
12:52over the last five years. So you could find a lot of ex angels who have jobs elsewhere and ask
12:58them
12:58questions. And they're like, I know you don't like Zach Netto's defense, but I'm telling you,
13:03if he went to a contender, it would get his attention and it would be better. And I'm like,
13:08you sure? And they're like, well, you're never sure. But they said he's in a place where winning
13:13is just not happening. And that he would be a guy who would rise to the moment in a winning
13:18situation. Woody, I don't know the end. I like, like, I don't know the player well enough. That's
13:24why I asked the questions of people. So that Hunter Goodman's defense is a real concern, especially his
13:32framing. Uh, the Yankees have been at the forefront and maybe the best team at teaching it. Can you,
13:41can you make bad acceptable? And is he worthwhile to give up a big package for, because the one thing
13:48you would get with Goodman, if you went in that direction, say is he could catch, but also while
13:54Stanton and Judge are out, he could DH when Wells is catching. Like you would actually use him as a
14:01DH.
14:02He can play a little first base and in Yankee stadium, could he stand in right field? Well,
14:08hell they had Stanton stand in right field. So, so I think he could do a little of that because
14:12I think
14:13at this point there's a beggars choosers thing. They need more offense, no doubt about it. So those
14:19are like big bats that could go. I think, I think on the last show I suggested if I were
14:26you, if I
14:26were a Yankee fan or any Yankee fan, I'd root for the Yankees to win and the twins to lose.
14:31You know,
14:31what hasn't happened? The twins aren't losing. And, and by the way, one of the reasons they're not
14:36losing is Jeffers is really hitting right off the IL, right from the handmade surgery. And so it does
14:42still lend the question. Does Toronto does, um, uh, Minnesota still believe, Hey, got Alex Jackson.
14:50We got Victor Caratini. Jeffers is a walkier guy. We don't have to quit on this race. We still have
14:57two catchers that are okay. Can we take Jeffers and get stuff for the future? Plus perhaps a bullpen
15:04arm or two to just make it better this year. So like, I just don't think there's a bunch of
15:10moving
15:10parts, uh, that are here, but I think the two roads Ryan are if Miller is available, they'll really go
15:18for him. And that's where they'll invest their cap, their main capital. If they could get it.
15:26If not, I would say they'll try to get good relievers. Maybe even Adrian more home does do the
15:33Padres do a, a, Hey, we're not conceding, but we have to use something from our bullpen to get
15:41a starting pitcher, deeper lineup, whatever, and turn more a hone into it. In which case can the
15:48Yankees do more a hone and a batter too, or two good relievers and better bats. I think that they're
15:56willing to expend significant capital at this deadline, uh, to try to get the things they want.
16:05This has not been a good week for the, for having the market get deeper. Like if you're doing a
16:13market
16:13watch of, Hey, did the Minnesota, did the twins have a five game losing streak? They did not. And
16:19the one team that had a bad weekend, I'm not saying the Yankees won't listen on Tarek Skubel because like
16:26you know, what if they say like, we really love Ryan Weathers and we'll take two prospects. Like,
16:31like you got to at least listen to the art of what, what it is. Um, but the Yankees, one
16:38area of not
16:39need is the rotation, like the top of the rotation. Of course you'd take, you'd go get Tarek Skubel if
16:46you could, but, but I do think you generally at this time of year, uh, if you go look at
16:51his history and
16:52there's a lot of three decades of history, Brian Cashman is a literalist. If he needs a right-hand
16:57hitter, he goes and gets a right-hand hitter. If he needs a third baseman, he goes and gets a
17:01third
17:01baseman. If he needs relieving, he doesn't play the, well, I'll do this and then we'll do that. And
17:05then we'll do, I think he's mainly like Dave Dombrowski's like this, like the Phillies need a depth
17:11starter of reliever who could pitch in the last nine outs of the game and a right-hand hitting outfield
17:16bat. I bet you they get those three things because Dave Dombrowski is a literalist who goes
17:20for it. Yeah. Look, Joel, uh, is, those are two interesting scenarios. And I, and I think even
17:26for you now that the, the Padres are sitting at 53 and 53, it's, it feels very much in the
17:32unknown
17:32of whether or not Preller wants to deal Mason Miller. And I don't think he's going to openly
17:37declare that right to the media or anyone, but because like, look, if, if, why don't we, one of the
17:43things you always have to do, I always encourage people again, like yourself who are Yankee fans or
17:48Met fans or whatever is, don't put yourself in the seat of the general manager of the team you care
17:54about. Put yourself in the other seat, right? You're sitting with Mason Miller. He's the best
17:59closer in the world at a time. You know, there's good ones, Duran, Varlin, et cetera. David Bednar's
18:05pitched great. Miller is the best Miller and, and he's a cheat code in the post season, right? Like,
18:12like as big a thing as you can have in the post season is the games you should win after
18:17seven
18:17innings, you win. Uh, and he is a lockdown guy, but, uh, I don't think his value goes down one
18:27piece
18:27if you wait till the off season, right? Like it isn't as opposed to Mora hone, who's a free agent
18:33at the end of the year. Like you either trade him or you don't, or by the way, you keep
18:38them and he's
18:38really good and you go for it. Right. But this is the last time you could turn him into capital.
18:43And not only do I think this is not the last time you could turn Miller into capital. I don't
18:48think
18:48it changes the package all that much at a time where Preller with new ownership might be having
18:56to show, Hey, you should keep me in the job at a time where they're still drawing over 3 million
19:02people. And you know what those 3 million people don't want is them to trade Mason Miller. Uh, you
19:08have a veteran clubhouse with big contracts like this, not, there might not be some shots with these
19:13guys. I just think everything points to Preller, not trading Miller unless it is such a, how do I not
19:23do this? Right. But I think he's going to get that offer in the off season. And so I think
19:30he,
19:30I I'm always surprised at this time of year. I bet you two guys get traded that we never saw
19:38coming
19:40because here's, here's the thing. And I know this will get aggregated. So I'll try my hardest to say,
19:44don't aggregate this. I, I don't believe for one second, this player is being traded.
19:49I don't believe it, but I always play the game of if I were Brian Cashman, if I were David
19:56Stearns,
19:57if I were AJ Bell, I'm trying to put myself in their seat. So I know what questions to ask
20:01and
20:01what calls to make. And I would call the Cincinnati Reds and say, Hey, how many things would we have
20:12to
20:12put together to get Sal Stewart? And I think the Reds would say you can't. And, but, but it would
20:20be a call I would make because Stewart to me is a guy like he's a little rough at third.
20:28I get it.
20:29But right now you put him at third and eventually Goldschmidt is gone after the season. You put him
20:34at first, Stanton's gone probably like one more season, maybe not even that. Rice becomes your DH.
20:39Now you're building. Now you have Stewart and Rice. You're building around with the back end,
20:45the judges prime. Like I think the Yankees, like, like that's why Goodman, if you think the bat is
20:52real and you think you could really improve his catching to the point where it's passable,
20:58the game has changed a lot. But one of the reasons the Yankees and Mets played in the world series
21:05in
21:062000 was no catchers could hit, but Mike Pagliazza and Jorge Posada could hit. And do you know what
21:13nobody ever said? There go two good catchers. Now the game has changed so much with framing and game
21:19calling and ABS and how, how teams do game planning and individual plans for each hitter. And the pitching
21:29is so much tougher to just catch because of the shapes and movements and velocity. I don't think you
21:35could live with a bad catcher now. I don't think you could live with a bad catcher. So the question
21:39is, can you make somebody league average at the skill the Yankees care about the most, which is
21:47for that position, which is framing because he's not good at it. Tyler Stevenson, who might be a
21:53secondary choice by all the public metrics is not good at it. Do you think your catching guys can very
21:59quickly make a guy who's not good, slightly below average to get the offense? I think it's an
22:08important question. I'm sure Yankees are a good organization. I'm sure they've asked that question
22:13internally because I think that if they can't get Miller, one of the things they should be thinking
22:19about is not just an offensive player who gets them through the rest of the year, which they desperately
22:24need. But can they get another young guy where they're like him, Goodman and Rice, plus whatever
22:32judge has left, which maybe is another three or four good. I mean, judge wasn't slowing down before
22:36he got hurt. If he stayed healthy, if he never has that dive, he's probably the front runner for the
22:42MVP again, because he's Aaron judge. But you have to begin to prepare for he's 35. There's going to be
22:50a
22:50moment where the production dims that, you know, so let me ask you a question, Joe, because I think
22:56it's an interesting point of thought with the long-term view, right? The long-term planning that
23:02you could think about. Is there any, with the doubt of the off season of there being baseball next year,
23:08would that put any like doubt into those type of conversations being had from Cashman's field?
23:15You mean about acquiring a guy in the off season?
23:18Yeah. Acquiring a player long-term like that, that you're talking about.
23:22I think it's the right question, Ryan. I would remember that you can do business, let's assume the worst,
23:31which I think, I think is a hundred percent of the people will tell you we're going to have a
23:35lockout
23:36on December 1st. You could still do business through November 30th. And if you remember last time, like,
23:43the Rangers signed Marcus Simeon and Corey Seager before the lockout. So I expect that especially
23:51a couple of big guys are going to go down early, though it's a terrible free agency for position
23:56players coming up. But like, I think that there is going to be action before November 30th. And
24:04let's be frank. GMs are not going to stop GMing, even when they're told not to. And so will GMA
24:15call
24:16up GMB when you, by the way, there's nothing else going on and say, Hey man, when this thing ends,
24:23if I offered you blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I think that there'll be, and there'll then be
24:29another three weeks of spring, hurry up spring training to get ready for whenever we play your
24:34season. Look, let's be hopeful. Let's hope it gets settled. We play 162 game season. I'm very doubtful
24:40about all of it, Ryan, but like, you know, it is what it is. Yeah. Uh, so, so I think,
24:47but, but,
24:48but, but, but, but to your point, I'm not throwing away this season. I think the Yankees because of
24:55their rotation and because of what they could do with their, their bullpen, as far as like
24:59loading it up with starters who don't stay in the rotation, whatever they do with the deadline,
25:04plus, you know, Bednar and Hedrick and Blackburn and Cruz, uh, they're going to have a puncher's
25:11chance in the post season. So you don't want to throw away this season, but I, but if you remember
25:17at the deadline last year, a lot of the trades that were made were for players who had more service
25:22time. Again, whatever you think of Jake Bird, Duvall, McMahon, Caballero, those were guys who had
25:30continuing service time this year. Yes. And that was valuable to the Yankees at the moment they made
25:37the trade, uh, cause they knew they'd need them for more than just 2026, uh, 2025. Uh, I think,
25:45I don't think they'll turn away from Luis Arise because Luis Arise batting average would really help
25:51this team. Uh, I still say, I'm not sure there's a place to play them unless you really want to
25:56get
25:56bad at third base, uh, with jazz Chisholm back there. Um, well, so let me, can I ask you a
26:03question
26:03about the jazz thing? It seems like he's kind of, cause we saw over the weekend, he only played once
26:07and I know they face lefties, but he's kind of turned himself into a, just because of how bad of
26:13a year he's having into a platoon player right now versus righty, righty pitch.
26:16Fortunately, it's the same side of the platoon as Arise. But I guess my question is Arise can
26:22hit lefty on lefty, right? Like you could play. Well, then you're just replacing Chisholm. In
26:26other words, like, are you saying you're turning Chisholm into a second base only bench? I can
26:32hardly think of anything that you would want on the bench less than that. There's a single position
26:37guy. So that's why I think I said on the last show, uh, I would not avoid Arise, but I
26:45have to know
26:46I have a place to park Chisholm, uh, as part of a multi-move thing. And I think that's a
26:54little
26:54tougher because whatever negativity you are feeling towards Chisholm, oh, he's not hitting lefties.
27:03His attention span could come and go like, it isn't like the league is blind to it. And so, uh,
27:10I,
27:11I never, again, I'm in the never say never business, but, uh, we don't see three team and
27:19four team trades as often as you and I might be able to make one up because that trades are
27:24hard,
27:24just me and you to do the, I'm going to trade my second baseman here. So I can open up
27:30a place to
27:30acquire the second baseman there possible, but difficult. Yeah, sure is Joel. That second scenario
27:37you laid out there though, is very fascinating. And it's because of how little batting is available
27:44on the market currently. And, and I wonder, would they make that big swing? Like you're saying,
27:49no pun intended, but for that bat. And it hurts a little bit when Shay Langoliers goes down possibly
27:55for the year two, which lessens the market for another big bat at the catcher spot. So I wonder
28:01like, is Goodman that big enough a bat? Like you could trust him to, to be a real impact for
28:07you
28:07here in New York. Uh, and the netto one is very interesting because then that makes me ask you,
28:12does that mean that Lombard doesn't get the call up if they were to get someone like a Zach Netto
28:17and would he potentially go back in a trade for something else?
28:21Look, I, I always want to be careful with the Lombard thing. I have of all, I am of the
28:28belief
28:28that if your choices remain Caballero and Volpe, then I would think seriously about Caballero in
28:36August at some point. And I guess somebody may, I wish I could give the credit. Uh, it's a rule
28:41I
28:41should understand better. I guess if you wait to August 15th, you know, there's certain benefits as
28:47far as rookie status for the next year that, that continues, et cetera. But, um, uh,
28:56I do not think the Yankees are as gung ho to bring Lombard up as their fan bases. I feel
29:05like they,
29:06they are very concerned about screwing with what they feel is a natural gestation period for what a
29:13prospect should go through. That was slowed down for a few weeks by a hand injury recently.
29:19And I know even very, very pro Lombard people in the organization who are like, cool your jets.
29:31The best thing for him would be to come to spring training next year with us having left the spot
29:37open to try to win the job. The second best is let's see it in September. So I'm not, I'm
29:44not ruling
29:45out August. I'm not ruling out August 4th. Like who knows how desperate the Yankees are, you know,
29:50if Caballero or, um, Volpe get nicked up, you know, like you're going to have to bring up a shortstop,
29:57but I think that they, they're trying to take a deep breath and be level-headed about a prospect
30:03they love, uh, and not rush it, uh, at a time where there's some stressors outside the organization
30:13pushing for them to do it. And I would point out, it's probably a lot of like when it's fan
30:19voices,
30:19it's probably a lot of the same people who were screaming for Volpe, right? It's probably a lot
30:24of the same people who were screaming for Spencer Jones. It was probably a lot of the same people
30:27who were screaming for Jason Dominguez. Like the backup quarterback is undefeated. Uh, he's always
30:34going to be better than your starter, unless you have four guys. And so we always think the guy
30:39who's off screen, who we've never seen play is going to be better than the people who are on screen.
30:43So you've got to be careful about that. But again, having said it, if I am, I've seen George Lombard
30:49play a little bit in spring training. So I have to trust the scouts who watch him, who I believe
30:55in
30:55most, my handful of guys who I've talked to for years and they're convinced he can play defense,
31:01run the bases, take a good at bat, but maybe not a great at bat right now. Uh, the problem
31:08is the
31:08Yankees kind of need the bats right now. They, that's, that's the, that, that's the tricky thing.
31:14And I think they really need it. I think they really need, I think they need to, I think even
31:18with
31:19Judge Stanton and Bellinger, they need to at least raise the floor of the thing. And as I
31:25become more dubious that Miller is going to get out in the marketplace, I think that they have to
31:33at least in, you know, like, look, I don't think that the, I don't think the Astros would have
31:39dealt with them either, but the Astros have started to win and their general manager, Dana Brown came
31:45publicly and said, we are not selling. But like, like if they had had a bad week, someone like
31:50Isak Paredes, somebody like Jeremy Pena, like this all would have, it's been a bad week for the,
31:56for the sellers in the marketplace, because those, a lot of the teams in the middle have either just
32:03stayed there or maybe even incrementally improve their shot. And none of those teams, a lot of those
32:08teams are built the mindset. So what I would find interesting, I think the mindset of the Minnesota
32:15Twins, and I want to be clear about this, baseball front office, not their ownership, would probably
32:21be to sell Jeffers. I'm not sure that their owner is going to allow it. I don't think anybody in
32:28the
32:28Padre or Astro organization wants to sell for one second. Like they would have to be faced with,
32:35hey man, you have no alternative. You're 12 under, you're like, but that isn't what's happened in this
32:43recent period. They've played better. It makes sense, Joel. Uh, and, and, and, you know, like
32:49it's just as I'm thinking about it, you know, who's played badly, the Marlins. Yeah. Like, can you
32:55go to the Marlins and say for, and, and again, this is where I'm always worried about being
33:02aggregated. I don't think they'll trade these guys. I don't think they'll trade these guys. I don't
33:06think they'll trade these guys. But do you ask about Otto Lopez? Do you ask about Xavier Edwards?
33:11Do you ask about those kinds of guys to say, well, if you move it, we'll give you an A
33:18plus
33:19return at a time. Maybe you're still building and you've had a bad moment. I don't think they'll
33:24get moved, but I do think the Yankees are in a place where for the, for the, for this moment
33:31and
33:31the near future, asking about the best prospects who, who, who you, I would have to hear it from
33:39Peter Bendix. Hey, you know, like, let me hear it. You're not trading them. I would have to hear it
33:46from Nick crawl of the reds. Let me hear it. You're not no good because I won't waste my time,
33:52but, but, but a hundred percent, right? Like I can't twist your arm a little bit if I put ABCD
33:57and
33:57E in this, right? Right. No. Okay. But I think this is a moment. And by the way, I bet
34:03you the
34:03Yankees have done it. Sure. I bet you the Dodgers have done it. I bet you the Rays have done
34:07it. I bet
34:07you the Brewers have done it. I bet it just, why wouldn't you, if I've thought of it and I'm
34:12not
34:13running a front office, I think everyone, I think these guys are in contact because of this a lot
34:19more than they ever were in the past where I could, you could do, Hey, Peter Bendix, just to hit
34:24you
34:24with a concept. Just want to be positive here. These guys available at all under, like, if I'm willing
34:31to go sky high, no, thanks. Have a good trade deadline, you know? So I assume that everybody is
34:39asking for everybody's best. And you know what you're waiting to hear from the, if you're a team
34:44like the Yankees, Brewers, Rays, Dodgers, there's somebody go, huh? Uh, sure. What are you talking
34:50about? Yeah. Cause you, you know, what, what, what it's the opening of the door. It's like, just the
34:56door has been cracked open a little bit here. You know, we're going to do a show. I assume either
35:01Monday night or Tuesday morning next week. And we will have two people. We were surprised got
35:07traded, right? Like we'll go, Oh, I didn't see it. And all we've been doing for two months is
35:13imagining this marketplace. And still there'll be the moment where we're like, Oh, like, like the
35:20first trade that was made of some significance was Curtis Mead for Connolly early. Yeah. Like,
35:26all right. Like those were not names we were throwing around and like, like, and, and I'll throw
35:30this out there. Think about what the Red Sox had to give up a good young controllable starter
35:37to get a right hand, how bad right hand hitting is in the sport right now. Controllable right hand
35:43hitting. They gave up and, and remember Paul Toboni who runs the nationals drafted Connolly early. So
35:50he knows it. And you could say whatever you want about Craig Breslow. I would say the one thing he
35:56knows for sure is pitching. Look at the pitching is put together in Boston. So like, it's interesting.
36:02He gave them up a guy who knows him, got them. And a guy who got designated for assignment in
36:08March
36:08was traded for him. And because he's had a good couple of months. So if that's the price tag on
36:14Curtis Mead off of what have, he had always been a promising player who had never lived up to his
36:20promise. Now he's living up to his promise for a few months. And by the way, he doesn't bring
36:25defensive value. Really? I mean, he, you put him out in the field, but he's not good because the
36:29right hand bat is so desired. So when you start thinking, if you're you or a Yankee fan, Hey,
36:36that right hand bat, keep doing cha-ching for what it's going to cost you in the market. But what
36:42Hunter
36:42Goodman, that right hand, that right-handed bat, that Neto, that right-handed bat, which comes attached
36:49to a shortstop, which comes attached to a catcher, which comes attached to multiple years of club
36:54control for both guys, especially Goodman. So yeah, you know, it's a, you're, you're not wrong,
37:00Joel. And that that's exactly what I thought when I saw that trade come through and I'm like, wow,
37:04that was a steep price. I thought Connelly early was a very good player, a pitcher. He's a very good
37:08pitcher. And I'm like, I'm surprised he's going for Curtis Mead. And it's like pitch against the
37:11Yankees a few times. He's pretty good. Yeah. So look, I think it's, it's so fascinating the names that
37:19you throw out there and, and like where your thoughts are and like how, where they could
37:23potentially attack this thing that the bottom line though, is Joel, they need some of these guys to
37:28perform better. And I think one of them I'm a little concerned about again is Trent Christian
37:33was over this, this weekend. He's going through it a little bit. Uh, I just, I remember the Dodgers
37:38play obviously from the previous series, the weekend prior, uh, and, and, and puts more pressure on a
37:45guy like Ben Rice, who I, I feel like he's having a great year and, and we're all focused on
37:50how do
37:50they improve? How do they improve? One of the young bats that they have has been so damn good for
37:54them,
37:54but it's tough for him to carry this entire lineup right now. Solo act. Now the, the, the Grishams
38:00at bats have gone the wrong way. Uh, not good because I think last week I mentioned a coach said
38:08to me,
38:08the only two guys who take, who drag it bats deep and do well is, um, are Grisham and, um,
38:15and Rice.
38:17And so when it, now you're down to Rice and Ballinger, it started to hit again. Yes. You know,
38:24which was the other thing is, and, and you see, and get big hits like, you know, which is what
38:29you
38:29want out of them. And now he's going to be gone at least 10 days. Is it somewhat encouraging that
38:33he,
38:33you know, there's video of him doing agility drills the day after he gets put on the IL that maybe
38:38it's, you know, a shorter period than say Grisham's hamstring, which was like, what, like a month.
38:44Yeah. Uh, Grisham was out. Uh, but also I, I, I go back to this, a period where, when you're
38:52going
38:52to hit this badly, all the other stuff has to be so buttoned up. And like Grisham's route to open
39:00the game on Trey Turner's triple. Yes. It's just like, it's just not acceptable. It's just not
39:07acceptable. It's, it's again, it looks, you looked cool, man. What can I say? You were cruising. You
39:13look good. You didn't stop the ball from getting to the wall. It was not, I do not believe that's
39:19full speed to go get the ball. I don't think it's a good angle. I don't think it's full speed.
39:23And it's the first play of the game. What would I have to do to get your attention? This is
39:27what I go
39:28back to. It's, it's him not scoring on the play like a two weeks ago. Like, what would I have
39:33to
39:33do to get your attention? Like, have you noticed judge isn't around? Have you noticed Stan's not
39:39around now? Bellinger's not around. Like we need you, man. And need is more than get hits in the
39:44batter's box. Need is how are you playing? How are you playing? Because every run the Yankees give up
39:52is precious. A couple of more runs on Friday or Saturday allowed and they get swept. They do not
39:59have enough offense to cover for other things right now. So this is a moment you just can't
40:06give it away. And you've got to be sharp on the bases. You have to be sharp in the field.
40:12By the way,
40:13that should be 162 games. But if I don't have your attention for 162, can I at least get it
40:18right now?
40:19Yeah. Yeah. How about his, uh, his partner in the outfield there, Jason Dominguez in the seventh
40:25inning on Friday night, that throw to home. I don't know, Joe, like I know we've talked about
40:31his defense and how bad it's been this year. I've seen, feel like some incremental improvements over
40:36the last month and he's been better at the play. He's playing. Right. So therefore, you know,
40:42like I think he gets to look, I think the hope for him was always major league average defense and
40:48above average offense. Forget that he's nicknamed the Martian and go from there. Uh, there still
40:54is not enough defense and there's still not enough offense. Like they need, he's another guy. Look,
41:00he's going to get, he is full runway now. Like you want to show that you should be playing.
41:06Let's not talk about it as theory anymore. This guy's been hitting three, four or five in the lineup.
41:11Yeah. And he's playing every day. Lefty righty. They're not holding them out against lefty. They're
41:16not in a position to do it. They have key right hand hitters out of the lineup. He's going to
41:22play.
41:23So like, it's no longer a theory. He's going to get hundreds of at-bats of runway before this is
41:29all done. I assume Spencer Jones is just about to get runway here. It doesn't have to be theory
41:37anymore. Like they value. This is something that has come up a lot on the show in three years we've
41:44done this, Ryan, which is value is not only the output, but when you provide output, which is why
41:52I don't believe in the bullshit, completely analytic MVP argument about, well, just look at the numbers.
42:00I'm like, yeah, like this guy produced the numbers for a team that was never in the race. Like when
42:04was
42:05this, when were these numbers produced? Like it's, it's, I, I did it. I, I talked about it with David
42:13Stearns. I wrote about it. I've talked about it. David Stearns at one of his press conferences,
42:18like maybe two, three weeks ago said at the end of the year, Bo Bichette's going to have Bo Bichette
42:24numbers. And I'm like, yeah, but who cares when the Mets needed Bo Bichette for their season,
42:29not to spin out of control. Bo Bichette wasn't good. Like, like, okay, he's going to hit 300 the
42:37rest of the year. He might as well do that on Mars. You know what I mean? It's like, it's
42:43when
42:44you're performing, like a home run at one, one is different from a homer at seven, one.
42:50That's the Devers thing. That's just the reality of it. Yeah. It's the Raphael Devers thing you were
42:57talking about a week ago about how he's providing it until the middle of May, you know, and then all
43:04of a sudden he woke up and yeah. Uh, Joel, before we wrap, I want to wrap up here, but
43:11I want to get
43:11your thoughts, uh, just because look, you've been doing this for a while and I don't mean that is an
43:16insult. I mean, that is in a valuable, insightful way. Uh, I think a lot of fans are always interested
43:22in your insights, but for you personally, uh, is there anything that you can think of when you're
43:28thinking about this time of year with the deadline, like as a reporter, how difficult it could be to
43:33dig through the quote unquote bullshit of people talking to you or the real valuable insight you can
43:39get from, from baseball people when you do have conversations with them, how is that struggle or,
43:44or maybe not struggle? Maybe it's a challenge that you accept. How do you go through that every
43:48day now in this time period with the week to go before the deadline? So I would say maybe,
43:55maybe, maybe it's the blessing of being around a while and having relationships. I, I think I deal
44:00with less out and out lies and bullshit at this time of year and just more of, I'm not going
44:05to talk to
44:06you, which I appreciate. I don't want to be lied to. I don't want to be misled because again,
44:12I'm not collecting the information to hoard it. I'm trying to disseminate it to fans, to people,
44:20you know, our readers at the post, uh, people who watch me in a MLB network to people who watch
44:26this
44:27or listen to the podcast that I do with Johnny Heyman. Like, like the idea is like, we have a
44:32similar goal in some ways when I'm talking to you, we want to make the fans care about this
44:38and we want to make them smarter fans, more knowledgeable, know things. If you lie to me,
44:45I'm going to end up telling them an untruth. Like I, when I catch a guy in a lie, that's
44:51what I tell
44:52them. And then I stopped talking to them. I say like, fuck you. I'm done with you. Right. Because
44:57like, like, well, I'm trying to Ryan, because we move fast and there's always a little bit of a fog
45:04of
45:05news. Like you do get things wrong, but you never should ever get anything wrong purposefully.
45:10Like I've made mistakes and I will tell a guy, like, I am writing. Like one of the things I
45:17say
45:18all the time is I'm writing about this. Sure. Like you could decide not to help me, but I am
45:22writing
45:23about it. And I don't want to have it wrong. If you'd like to help me shape it, to be
45:29able to give
45:29to the fan base as good information as you can within the parameters that you feel you could
45:36talk to me, please do that. Because like, I could only be knowledgeable. I'm not in any of the 30
45:42offices who are making these deals like you are. And so I'm none of the agents, you know, if you're
45:50an agent and all you're trying to do is okie doke me to get your player to a better spot.
45:55Like, all right.
45:56Like, I appreciate that you're doing your job. Do you have no respect for my job? Do you have no
46:00respect for the fan base? Like, I get it, but like, this isn't the last client you're going to ever
46:06have. And hopefully this isn't the last phone call we're ever going to have. Like, let's not screw
46:10around with each other. Right. That's, that's, that's how I feel. Now, do I still get bullshitted?
46:15Of course, like it's part of the game. I wish, I think it happens less.
46:19Yes. Uh, I think there, there is a, such a better understanding. I think I could be wrong
46:29about this, but I think there's such a better understanding of like the players who could
46:33and should be available, the teams who could and should get those players, uh, that it's,
46:41and, and yet we'll be surprised. As I say, by Monday, six o'clock, we'll have a couple that
46:45go, wow. Didn't see that one coming. So I think we begin this thing as early as say May where
46:51we're
46:52like, Oh, team, this team isn't very good. And they have Tarek Skubal. This team isn't very good.
46:58And they have Mason Miller. This team isn't. So it's like, Oh, if you were a detective, you already
47:05know, like who has a pretty good chance to have like committed the crime. Right. Like, cause you,
47:11all we're doing is detective work, right. Trying to put the clues together to figure out how to
47:18solve this thing. So, uh, yeah, I think there's less of it. Right. And I do, I hope that's about
47:25relationships and that people trust me and know that I'll take good care of information and do the
47:31best I can with it. But, uh, I just also think just some things are more obvious than they've ever
47:38been front offices are sharp. I know people won't believe this, but like, so when I was a beat
47:45writer, late eighties, early nineties, I recognize like, Oh, you know, the Yankees aren't really going
47:50to help me with things that to maybe know what's going on with the Yankees. I have to call other
47:55people and be like, Oh, like, Oh, you know, the Yankees need a third baseman. And I would like,
48:01you know, like no internet, go down baseball, you know, uh, like the USA today, baseball stats,
48:08like, okay. Third baseman who could be available. Oh, this team's third baseman. They're a losing
48:13team. He's going to be a free agent or he's making too much money. And I would call some of
48:17these. Now, some guys were very sharp even then, but some people would say, Oh, the Yankees need a
48:22third baseman or like, who do they have? And I'm like, how do, how do I know more than you?
48:28Yeah. And that was, that's in the last four decades. Yeah. Right. And that doesn't happen
48:34anymore. Like even the worst front office now, I think is better than most of the best ones back
48:42then. Like they're just sharper. They, they, they see things three and four D like from a lot of ways
48:49they're there. Like, I think the average fan, and by the way, the average reporter would be shocked
48:57at how much information is gathered at this time of year, like medical, psychological background,
49:06family, you know, like, like these are big decisions. Like if the Yankees are going to include,
49:12say Dax Kilby in a trade or George Lombard Jr. in a trade, or like, like future value is a
49:19term
49:19that every baseball fan should understand. Like there is a number placed. It's usually a, a, a dollar
49:27amount placed on every player. Dax Kilby future value is 55 million, 60, but whatever number they
49:37come up with, they're trying to make sure every team is trying to make sure I get at least 60
49:42back.
49:42Every team is trying to make sure they get $70 million in value and they get what excess value,
49:47which is why they're saying, Oh, add that extra guy from a ball in the trade, because he's a lottery
49:52ticket. We have our variable is he could be worth nothing, or he could be worth $70 million because
49:59of his talent, right? Like if you traded for Cam Schlittler last spring, not this spring training
50:04and spring training 2025. Sure. Like, like you went to the Yankees and said, we'll, we will trade
50:10you this very good player for Cam Schlittler. The Yankees probably would have done it if a team had
50:15Cam Schlittler might be worth zero, but we're seeing a progression here where maybe he's worth a hundred
50:19million dollars. Maybe he's worth more. And so that's part of what's going on here. And teams are
50:25very, the most sophisticated teams are like, I will say that before it's all said and done,
50:34maybe at, after retirement, I might beg a front office. I really respect and say, can I embed,
50:41I don't want to report about it, but I'd like to see, I've reported on this for a long time.
50:46I'd like
50:46to see it fully function. Like, I'd like to see how the meal is completely made because I think I
50:53have
50:54clues, but even somebody who's doing this every day, I don't think I fully appreciate. I that's
50:59wrong word. I appreciate it. I think guys are working incredibly hard. I don't think I fully
51:02know how many different levels they're working on things. Biomechanics, like is a big thing now,
51:11right? Like, Oh, we're going to, we're about to give up Dax Kilby for this pitcher. What do our
51:16biomechanics guys say about his likelihood of sustaining the rest of this season next year,
51:22et cetera. So I just think there's things that are going on at a very sophisticated high level
51:28at this time of year. And, you know, and you still get it wrong. You still could acquire Jake
51:34Byrd and he just can't pitch here. Like, and I bet you the Yankees did incredible homework on him.
51:39Incredible. And, you know, you think, you think you got it and you don't.
51:46Joel, future value, present value. You give it to us all. We appreciate you, man. Thank you as
51:51always for making some time, especially during this busy time of year. We're looking forward
51:54to your coverage throughout the week. And we're looking forward to catching up with you again
51:58next time. And as always, thank you, Joel.
52:02No, I really appreciate doing it. And I appreciate everybody who watches. I know it's a time of year.
52:07This is Yankee specific where Yankee fans are just, I'm sure, updating social media over and over and
52:13over again between now and next Monday. And trust me, I understand that I have this job because
52:19people care this much about it. And hopefully we'll do a good job of covering it all week so
52:23that fans enjoy it. Joel, you're the man. Thank you, buddy. Thank you, Ryan.
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