Russia's CopyCop launching hundreds of fake local newspaper websites and feeding them with misinformation

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00:00Deepfake videos where reality is altered but almost impossible to differentiate from the truth.

00:05AI-generated emails that replicate the tone and characteristics of a colleague or close friend

00:10in order to elicit private information.

00:13Social media accounts run by robots that flood feeds with lies

00:17but the roots of which are very deeply buried,

00:19leaving readers lost as to know exactly what's real and what is not.

00:23Our increasingly online world has led to a new war,

00:26one on information with an impact on elections, mental health and even people's bank balances.

00:32It's a battle that the French president has put high on his agenda.

00:35After spending over an hour discussing it with high school students last week,

00:39he's travelling to a local newspaper this Wednesday for a discussion with readers there.

00:43Well, to get more insight on it all, we're joined now by Romain Plonso.

00:46And Mr. Plonso, you work for a company that focuses on reputation monitoring

00:50and the study of online behaviour.

00:53So it's great to have you in studio. Thanks so much for coming in.

00:55And can I start simply by asking you, I mean, we're slightly aware of the danger of social media,

01:00of not knowing where all the information comes,

01:02but what's the biggest danger for us on social media today?

01:06Today, we find a new strategy that is run by our, let's say,

01:13opponents worldwide that are running a proper strategy of misinformation

01:21to impact our behaviours or opinion online.

01:25And we see that something big is happening at the moment.

01:30And that's probably why our president Emmanuel Macron will speak today

01:34at the Depes de Midi and their, like, 200 readers,

01:41to let them know what's going on.

01:42And especially, like, we, as a French, fight against disinformation.

01:50And probably, based on what Élise said, Emmanuel Macron will speak about

01:55how we can better regulate this digital world,

01:58and especially in the context of local elections.

02:00OK, so there's a big question of the laws surrounding our digital world.

02:04Let's get on to that in a minute.

02:05But for the average person at home, I mean, is it simply just dangerous

02:10because we're taking information from sources that we're not fact-checking?

02:15I mean, there's a big distrust in mainstream media.

02:17So people are getting most of their information, their news, if you like, online.

02:22You know, and I guess not fact-checking where it comes from,

02:24is that the main danger that we take it all as truth, in a way?

02:27Absolutely. And if we look at what's happening right now,

02:30we have a concrete example with CopyCop, which is based in Russia,

02:35which is a group that is launching hundreds of fake local newspapers' websites

02:42and feeding them with misinformation of fake news

02:47that are relayed online on social media for virality, of course.

02:51And this strategy is clearly engaged to change our behavior

02:57and to have an impact on the local elections at the end.

03:01So the fact-checking is more and more, of course, important.

03:05Your role as traditional media is major as well.

03:09But we can ask way more to the, like, social medias to moderate their content.

03:17That is something that has been done in the past,

03:20that is less and less done and less and less effective.

03:23AI has a role as well, because AI is helping this organization

03:29to produce more and more content faster.

03:32As soon as one of their websites is disconnected, a new one appears.

03:37So it becomes more and more complicated to regulate that.

03:42And AI has another role, because if you look at the major AIs,

03:47their sources of information are mainly Wikipedia and medias, traditional medias.

03:54So they consider these fake websites as media and, I mean, legitimate sources,

04:01and it impacts their answers.

04:04So one third, if you look at Moldova elections, for instance,

04:09these fake news, fake medias, achieve to bring false information to the AI,

04:17and one third of the answers of these AIs, of LLM, were fake at the end.

04:24Okay, so it does sound like, for the average person,

04:26it's almost impossible to have the time, the resources, the knowledge to fact-check.

04:31We do need these laws to be put in place.

04:32But is there a political will to do that?

04:34I mean, we seem...

04:35Apparently.

04:36So our President Macron will have a speech about that.

04:40We have also Viginium, that is our French agency

04:45that fight against this intelligence and influence online.

04:50They produced the first report for 2024,

04:54highlighting that the 25 operations run in France during that period.

05:02So the first thing is to identify it, highlight it,

05:06and, of course, we have to educate our population,

05:10and that's probably the role of our government,

05:12to better educate the local populations,

05:17to let them know that it's happening,

05:19and how to identify what's the fake news.

05:21Indeed, there was even an EU disinformation task force set up a couple of years ago

05:25to do a similar job.

05:26But the problem really is,

05:28we are seeing heads of state use deepfake videos for their own means,

05:32and it needs to be an internationally-led initiative

05:36for it to have any real effect.

05:37Absolutely.

05:38That's something that is in discussion.

05:41The role of AI is major and has to be regulated at a point.

05:46But let's see what's coming in the coming months.

05:49And again, for people at home,

05:51I mean, also we have to be aware of our own online reputation

05:54and being present in social media.

05:56Where do you think people are on that?

05:58And I mean, is just simply not being on social media

06:00a valid option in today's world?

06:02It depends on what your daily life is.

06:07We were discussing that before that speech.

06:11For some of us, it's major to be online,

06:13to be recognized, and to be heard as well.

06:16If you talk about the new generation,

06:18Gen Z is fully online.

06:21It's the first source of information as well.

06:24So they won't get rid of that.

06:26But of course, you have to be careful about what you are sharing.

06:28We see new AI, such as Sora,

06:31who offer you the possibility to create your own avatar

06:35with your own image, your own voice.

06:38And it can be public.

06:40We saw that with some of influencers

06:42who offer the possibility to create content

06:44based on their own image.

06:46It's a big plus for the virality.

06:49They have been seen everywhere,

06:50even they didn't post anything.

06:53But at the end, you lose the control of your own image

06:56and your own speech, which is a major issue.

06:59So we have to be really, really careful about that

07:01and about what we are doing with our image and speech

07:04and online behavior.

07:06Indeed.

07:07It seems that when it comes to technology

07:09or knowledge for the average person

07:11and the laws seem to be so far behind the development,

07:15I mean, what do you see as the next big risk for us?

07:17And how can we be just that little bit more aware?

07:20There are thousands of risks, to be honest.

07:24If you look at WhatsApp, for instance,

07:27who ask us to share our private conversation

07:31to train their own AI,

07:34it can be highly risky from my point of view.

07:39But all these AI and LLM tools are based on data.

07:44And we have the control of sharing this information or not.

07:49You have to read carefully the rights

07:52that you are giving to this LLM

07:54and be aware of what they are doing behind them.

07:58But maybe explain a bit further,

08:00because we are always told,

08:01be careful of your data.

08:02But a lot of people say,

08:02oh, what does it matter if people know

08:04I'm going X, Y, and Z or doing X, Y, and Z?

08:06And you do have to make the effort

08:08when you're avoiding cookies,

08:10when you're Googling stuff online.

08:11It does take quite a bit of time sometimes.

08:15And you have to click sometimes

08:16on all the little boxes.

08:17How can that data be used against us, basically?

08:21You know, how important are what seem like banal facts?

08:26Let's get back to deep fakes, for instance.

08:30And you, especially as a journalist,

08:33we can use your own image, your own voice,

08:36and make you say the complete opposite

08:39of what you are thinking.

08:41And it can have a major impact on your career

08:45or even more.

08:48So we saw deep fakes that were like,

08:53I mean, pretty obvious and clear,

08:57easy to identify with our president

09:00or influencers, but it's not the case anymore.

09:04With the new release of Sora, once again,

09:09it's almost impossible to identify

09:11that it's a fake, a deep fake.

09:14So be really, really careful

09:16about what you are sharing online

09:18and make sure that you checked

09:20that you are not letting these companies

09:24using your own data.

09:26Okay, Romain, we'll have to leave you there.

09:28We thank you so much for joining us

09:30and bringing us your insight on it.

09:30Thank you for having me.

09:32Such an uncertain world we're entering into.

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