- 2 days ago
Trainer Mark Casse might not have won the Belmont Stakes, but his runners turned out to provide the stable with an excellent Belmont Stakes weekend, winning three Grade I stakes races with Classic Q, Counting Stars, and Nitrogen. Casse appears on this week's TDN Writers' Room to discuss the weekend and where his runners will head next. Elsewhere on the podcast, which is presented by Keeneland, hosts Bill Finley, Randy Moss, and Zoe Cadman review the weekend in general, and discuss why none of them picked the Belmont winner--Golden Tempo
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00:00:18Welcome to another edition of the TDN Writers' Rule, a post-Belmont Stakes edition.
00:00:23My name is Bill Finley.
00:00:24I'm a correspondent for the Thoroughbred Daily News.
00:00:26And you're damn right, I'm wearing my Bookum Dano t-shirt today, and I don't want to hear any flack
00:00:33from anybody about it.
00:00:37I'm Randy Moss with NBC Sports.
00:00:39I don't have a Bookum Dano t-shirt, but I've got an NBC Sports hat, an NBC Sports shirt.
00:00:44So I'm flying the colors of my employer.
00:00:48Zoe Katman with First TV and First Racing.
00:00:51I've got a nice cup of tea.
00:00:52Bill, you look sharp.
00:00:53You got a haircut.
00:00:54I like it.
00:00:55Yes, I did.
00:00:55I got a nice haircut just so I could look good for the show today, because that's how much I
00:01:00care about the TDN Writers.
00:01:02So did I.
00:01:05Well, anyways, guys, another Belmont Stakes in the books.
00:01:08The Triple Crown is over after the long run, and obviously we have a star among the three-year-olds
00:01:14in Golden Tempo.
00:01:16But I've got to tell you, it wasn't just us.
00:01:18It was pretty much everybody kind of overlooked this horse in the Belmont Stakes.
00:01:23And I think there was good reason to do so.
00:01:25And the pace scenario and the meltdown in the Kentucky Derby we talked about, and there probably wouldn't be much
00:01:31pace in the Belmont Stakes.
00:01:33Well, I still believed all that.
00:01:36But at the end of the day, my conclusion, Zoe Katman, is Golden Tempo is just really good, at least
00:01:43to me, a better horse than I had thought.
00:01:46He certainly is, and you are quite correct.
00:01:49Everybody, including us, did overlook Golden Tempo.
00:01:53And that's the problem with horse players.
00:01:55We tend to overthink things.
00:01:57He's a very good horse, and he seems to be getting better.
00:02:01Sometimes you've just got to go with who you feel is the best horse.
00:02:04And, you know, it's like Bob Baffert said with the Derby winner, the Derby winner coming back in the Preakness,
00:02:12right, because he was still all for the two weeks in between.
00:02:14He said why he always had so much success winning the Preakness with the Derby winner, because ordinarily it is
00:02:22the best horse that wins the Derby.
00:02:24So wheeling the best horse back in two weeks, in this case, five weeks, gives you the same result.
00:02:31The best horse wins, and I believe that's what we saw with Golden Tempo.
00:02:35He's a big baby, Huey.
00:02:37He always has been.
00:02:38And incrementally, he is moving forward with each and every jump, getting bigger and stronger and better and more attuned
00:02:47with racing.
00:02:47He took the kick back.
00:02:49He looked like a panda when he got back to the winner's circle once they took those blinkers off him,
00:02:54because he had a clean face and just these two, like, brown panda eyes where, you know, the mud got
00:03:00in the goggles.
00:03:01There was a deluge right when the gates opened.
00:03:03He was a terrific racehorse.
00:03:05He is a terrific racehorse.
00:03:07It was a great race.
00:03:08Hats off to Cherie DeVoe and her team for getting him tip-top on the day.
00:03:14Um, he's definitely thrown his hat in the ring for champion three-year-old without a shadow of a doubt,
00:03:21and I look forward to seeing him in the Jim Dandy and the Travers throughout the rest of the summer.
00:03:27Yeah.
00:03:28Look, there was a good reason why he was overlooked in the betting.
00:03:32Uh, seven times out of ten, maybe.
00:03:36Maybe that's an exaggeration, but that's my opinion.
00:03:38When you have a horse that wins the Kentucky Derby like he won it with the kind of pace that
00:03:44he got that is a confirmed deep closer that you know is going to be trailing the field, and now
00:03:50you switch to a race with very little early pace on what was a speed-favoring racetrack, he's supposed to
00:03:57be overlooked.
00:03:58I think if you hooked up Cherie DeVoe to a lie detector test before the race, she would have thought
00:04:05that Golden Temple would run well, but probably wouldn't win if they ran the first half mile in 48 seconds
00:04:11like they did, and yet here he comes, you know, blazing through the lane just like he did in the
00:04:16Derby.
00:04:17It probably helped his cause, I think, uh, the, uh, fairly heavy rain that they got right before and during
00:04:25the running of the race.
00:04:27The track had been pretty speed-biased, and it may have taken some of the speed edge off of the
00:04:33racetrack, but still, I mean, Golden Tempo is the best three-year-old in America, and watching that race reminded
00:04:40me of Wayne Lucas, and back in the days before Wayne was the, uh, was everybody's favorite grandfather, and he
00:04:49used, and he used to love to razz the media.
00:04:52One of the things that Wayne would always say to the media, people have opinions, horses have the answers, and
00:04:59the answer to the Triple Crown this year is that Golden Tempo is clearly the best horse.
00:05:06Like, Renegade had no excuse.
00:05:07Renegade had a really good trip.
00:05:09He really did.
00:05:10Um, and one interesting part of the race that I, that I thought watching it, and then watching it from
00:05:16the drone replay, and John Velasquez referenced this, Velasquez was on commandment, and they were moving side-by-side around
00:05:26the second turn, and Johnny did everything he could do to race-ride Golden Tempo and push him down behind
00:05:35Renegade when they got to about the 5-16th pole.
00:05:39And Jose Ortiz, and Jose Ortiz on Golden Tempo muscled his way out.
00:05:44Johnny didn't have enough horse to get three-quarters of a length in front of Golden Tempo and sort of
00:05:49hurried him over and stick him behind Renegade, so Jose was able to muscle his way out, and they were
00:05:55shoulder-to-shoulder leaning on each other coming to the quarter pole, but Golden Tempo made his room, and the
00:06:02rest of it was Belmont State's history.
00:06:04So, Randy, what do we do about commandment next time we watch him train in the morning?
00:06:12We don't watch him train.
00:06:13I thought about that, too, Zoe.
00:06:15I thought about that, too.
00:06:16We don't watch him in the morning.
00:06:18He ran really good.
00:06:19Look, I, I still do not think, I still do not like the way he was coming up to the
00:06:24Kentucky Derby, but, in the morning.
00:06:26But, having said that, I think the lesson learned here, for me at least, is that if Brad Cox is
00:06:34going to bring this horse back in five weeks and is going to bring this horse back in the Belmont
00:06:38Stakes, the horse is fine, and the horse is doing well.
00:06:41So, and he ran well, didn't he?
00:06:42Really well.
00:06:43He ran huge.
00:06:44He really did.
00:06:45Really good.
00:06:46He's a good horse.
00:06:47So, anyways, it's way too early to make any decisions about this, but if the year ended today, I think
00:06:57we have a horse of the year in Golden Tempo.
00:07:00Nysos, which we'll talk about later, is certainly in the running.
00:07:03I think Sherry DeVoe, we talked about all the accomplishments she's had being the first female to win the Kentucky
00:07:10Derby.
00:07:10Now, the first female to win two-thirds of the Triple Crown.
00:07:15Obviously, Jenna Antonucci won the Belmont Stakes before.
00:07:19But, it'll be interesting to see how this all works out.
00:07:23But, if Golden Tempo wins the Travers and the Jim Dandy, he's done what Sovereignty did last year to win
00:07:31Horse of the Year.
00:07:32And, Randy, I kind of think, again, it's a long way to go, but could we see the first female
00:07:38Eclipse Award-winning trainer?
00:07:40It's entirely possible.
00:07:42I mean, look at Englishman as well.
00:07:43Right.
00:07:44Right.
00:07:45I mean, he ran like he could be the best sprinter in America.
00:07:48Yeah, if the voting were held today, there's no doubt about it.
00:07:51I think Sherry DeVoe would win it.
00:07:52But, like you say, we've still got a half a year left to go.
00:07:56Safi Joseph is having a fantastic year.
00:07:58If Wiedabario beats Sovereignty again in the Stephen Foster and all the rest of the competition, and Safi continues his
00:08:05role, he would be a candidate.
00:08:07Brad Cox is sitting atop the earnings list right now.
00:08:10Mark Cassie's having a great first half of the year so far.
00:08:14We saw that this week at Saratoga.
00:08:15So there's no shortage of candidates in the usual suspects as well, other than Brad Cox, you know, Chad Brown,
00:08:22et cetera.
00:08:22But, yeah, I mean, Sherry is really clicking on all cylinders right now and well-deserved because everyone knew even
00:08:29before this year that she was a real up-and-coming trainer.
00:08:32Zoe, any thoughts about Sherry DeVoe?
00:08:34Well, I'd say yes, definitely.
00:08:38Vote for her, for sure.
00:08:39And, I mean, honestly, you can say what you want about Wiedabario and he'd have to do something big in
00:08:45the Classic.
00:08:45But for the Eclipse Award voting for not only horse but also trainer, the Derby and the Belmont and the
00:08:54Travers and perhaps the Classic has to take precedent over just about every other race there is.
00:08:59So the fact that she's already knocked two of those out and she's going to get a couple more grade
00:09:04ones with the Englishman, yeah, for sure, absolutely.
00:09:08Well, we'll keep an eye on that.
00:09:10So this was the last ever Belmont Stakes at Saratoga and returns to its home in the new Belmont Park
00:09:16next year.
00:09:17And I got to tell you, I mean, to have the Belmont, I didn't go to any of the three.
00:09:22I don't know if any of our team did.
00:09:25But to have the Belmont Stakes at Saratoga was a really neat experience and I'm sure everybody enjoyed it.
00:09:30But you know what?
00:09:31I'm looking forward to it, Randy, returning to Belmont Park.
00:09:34I'm returning to a mile and a half.
00:09:36This is really what it belongs.
00:09:38It's the test.
00:09:39I don't think it's the test of the champion at a mile and a quarter.
00:09:44And we're going to have a beautiful new racetrack.
00:09:47And I'm really looking forward to, you know, hats off to Saratoga, hats off to Naira for putting together a
00:09:52great show for three years.
00:09:54But time has come.
00:09:55Let's move it back to Belmont Park.
00:09:57And I'm really looking forward to that.
00:09:59Yeah.
00:09:59And thanks to Belmont and Cherie DeVoe, we don't we managed to escape the asterisks, the deadly asterisks in the
00:10:08Triple Crown.
00:10:09Now that both Sovereignty and Golden Tempo, who may have been worthy Triple Crown winners, will just go in history
00:10:18as Derby slash Belmont winners.
00:10:20But, yeah, I'm looking forward to it as well.
00:10:22Just not only getting back to, you know, the mile and a half and the traditional Belmont Stakes distance, but
00:10:28the brand new Belmont Park.
00:10:30Fox gave us a really nice look, a really nice glimpse at the new Belmont Park as part of their
00:10:35Belmont telecast.
00:10:37And it looks spectacular.
00:10:38It looks really good.
00:10:40When are they supposed to start?
00:10:42September, October?
00:10:43September.
00:10:44They're going to start, I believe it's September 19th.
00:10:47Don't hold me to that.
00:10:48But it's a Friday and the opening day will open with the Jockey Club Gold Cup on a Friday to
00:10:55kick off the new Belmont Park in September.
00:10:58Will it be ready?
00:10:59It doesn't look nowhere near ready.
00:11:01They'll get it ready.
00:11:02They'll get it ready, I'm sure.
00:11:04So they better.
00:11:05I'm watching Lucy.
00:11:06She's wearing such a cute little red and white jumper.
00:11:09Did you dress her today, Randy?
00:11:12She's been wearing that lately.
00:11:13She really likes it.
00:11:14So there you go.
00:11:15It's pink.
00:11:17Oh, pink.
00:11:18Did you pick that out for her?
00:11:19It's pink.
00:11:20Yes, I did.
00:11:21Ordered it off of Amazon.
00:11:22Yes, I did.
00:11:24So just one more thing before we turn our attention to, and maybe he said it out of frustration because
00:11:30I'm sure Todd Pletcher expected better from Renegade.
00:11:33But you have a quote from a trainer saying, well, five weeks wasn't enough time in between races.
00:11:40I was like, oh, my God.
00:11:44You know, where are we going from here?
00:11:46Are we going to start talking about needing eight weeks between races?
00:11:50You know, I guess Todd was frustrated.
00:11:54Maybe he didn't feel like he had the horse ready.
00:11:58Jeremy Plonk, who's a great handicapper, made a very good observation that Renegade only had two workouts in between the
00:12:06Derby and Preakness, which is not really Todd's style.
00:12:08He always gives him, excuse me, between the Derby and the Belmont, he always gives him three.
00:12:12But I just, you know, when someone says, oh, boy, five weeks isn't enough, I'm like, oh, geez, enough of
00:12:22this stuff.
00:12:23Five weeks better be enough or else we're really going to be in trouble if these guys start talking about
00:12:27we need six, seven weeks between the triple crown races.
00:12:31This is part of why Todd Pletcher is a Hall of Famer, because he knows his horses.
00:12:36Yes.
00:12:36Now, having seen that horse in the flesh, he's not big in stature.
00:12:41Todd alluded to that when we had him on.
00:12:43He's not like this big, robust horse.
00:12:46And the Derby probably just knocked him sideways.
00:12:49And yes, he probably needs longer than five weeks.
00:12:52He probably should have skipped it altogether.
00:12:54But horses we've seen time and time again will fool you into thinking they're doing well.
00:12:59And that's probably why he only gave him two works to try and freshen him up, maybe put a bit
00:13:04of weight on him.
00:13:05And, yeah, he needed more time.
00:13:08And, you know, good for him.
00:13:10It may have been tongue-in-cheek when he said that, but, you know, deep down, he probably knows it.
00:13:16I bet it wasn't tongue-in-cheek.
00:13:17You know, I mean, we didn't do the Belmont.
00:13:19Obviously, Fox did the Belmont.
00:13:20But if we had, we would have spent some time with Todd Pletcher beforehand.
00:13:25And he's pretty straightforward about things like that.
00:13:27And I could totally see Todd saying, you know, in a perfect world, I wish I had more than five
00:13:33weeks for the Belmont.
00:13:35But, you know, you've got to run.
00:13:36It's the Belmont Stakes.
00:13:37You know, we've done very well in the past Derby to Belmont.
00:13:41But, yeah, it doesn't shock me the way he ran that he would say that.
00:13:45Can you say that again in a little deeper voice like Todd?
00:13:52I'm not very good at impressions.
00:13:55All right.
00:13:56But when we say five weeks isn't enough, I just wonder where the hell are we going with this stuff?
00:14:01But anyways, who am I to doubt Todd Pletcher?
00:14:04He is a Hall of Famer.
00:14:05And perhaps another week or two was what he needed with his horse.
00:14:09And he does know his horse.
00:14:10All right.
00:14:10So we are going to take a break.
00:14:12We're going to hear from Keeneland.
00:14:13And when we come back, we're also going to hear from before we come back, we're going to have the
00:14:19fastest horse of the week.
00:14:20Then our Gainsaway guest of the week, Mark Cassie.
00:14:23What a week he had at Saratoga winning three grade one stakes races.
00:14:26Stay with us.
00:14:27Do you want to remind you that each and every week the TDN Writer's Room is brought to you by
00:14:32Keeneland?
00:14:33Congratulations to the three Keeneland September grads who won grade one races on Belmont Stakes Day.
00:14:39They were Deterministic, a $625,000 2022 grad in the grade one Manhattan, going back to back in the grade
00:14:48one Manhattan.
00:14:49Then there was the fabulous Englishman, a $400,000 2024 graduate in the grade one Woody Stevens.
00:14:57He was absolutely sensational.
00:14:59And then finally Classic Q, a $40,000 2023 graduate in the grade one Just a Game Stakes.
00:15:06Find your next grade one winner and many more at this year's September sale, which begins on Monday, September the
00:15:1314th.
00:15:15We do this so your granddaughter can work on a farm someday.
00:15:20So the stands will still be packed in 50 years.
00:15:25That's why we come to work every day.
00:15:27Obsess over every single detail.
00:15:32Because the story of racing is written one moment at a time.
00:15:36And the future of our industry deserves nothing less.
00:15:42Keeneland.
00:15:42Every moment matters.
00:15:45Our fastest horse of the week brought to you as always by the Fast Sires at Windstar Farm.
00:15:50And this week our spotlight is on Two Philz, who was my guy as a three-year-old racehorse.
00:15:55One of the highlights every year of the Fasic Tipton July yearling sale are the new Sires.
00:16:01And the catalog for that sale is just out.
00:16:04And Two Philz has 10 first crop yearlings in that catalog more than any other Sires.
00:16:11That's typically an indication that the Sires are forward or precocious types, which is exactly what you would expect from
00:16:18Two Philz.
00:16:19After all, he won two stakes races and a graded stakes as a two-year-old just like his Sires,
00:16:26hard spun.
00:16:27And both were runners-up in the Kentucky Derby.
00:16:30Two Philz did it with the buyer's speed figure of 105, which has held up very well over the last
00:16:36couple of decades.
00:16:37So check out those yearlings.
00:16:38Buy Two Philz in the Fasic Tipton July catalog.
00:16:42And remember, Two Philz stands at Windstar for a fee of only $7,500.
00:16:49Our fastest horse of the week, if you've been keeping up at all with what happened at Saratoga last weekend,
00:16:54it's pretty obvious, and we'll talk about this more in detail.
00:16:58But the Woody Stevens winner on the undercard at the Belmont Stakes, talk about precocious.
00:17:04How about Englishman, who just ran away from crude velocity, turned the tables on the Pat Day Mile winner at
00:17:11Churchill Downs on the Kentucky Derby undercard.
00:17:13And Englishman not only was tremendously impressive visually, my gosh, was he ever impressive by the clock.
00:17:21Buyer's speed figure 115, the highest buyer for any horse so far in a calendar year 2026.
00:17:29Englishman, our fastest horse of the week.
00:17:36Welcome to now the Gainsway Guest of the Week and its Hall of Fame trainer, dual Hall of Fame trainer,
00:17:41Mark Cassie.
00:17:42And the big story in Saratoga, of course, among trainers was Cherie DeVoe winning the Belmont Stakes.
00:17:48But let's not overlook what Mark Cassie did, winning three grade ones during the Belmont Festival in one of the
00:17:56greatest runs that I'm sure he's had over a five-day period.
00:17:59Mark, you've won so many big races and, you know, won triple crown races.
00:18:03You've done so much in your career.
00:18:05How would this rank, though, winning three grade one races in Saratoga?
00:18:09It's got to be pretty special.
00:18:11Yeah, I don't I don't I don't know that anything ranks with this.
00:18:15You know, it was it was amazing.
00:18:18A couple of days.
00:18:21And your background at Saratoga, you talked about that a little bit, you know,
00:18:26in retrospect, after winning those three grade ones about your childhood with your father.
00:18:32Tell us a little bit about that.
00:18:34Yeah, it's emotional.
00:18:36You know, I've been coming to Saratoga since I was a little boy.
00:18:40I was telling someone that they wrote an article about me in the Daily Racing Forum.
00:18:48When I was like 10 or 11, they said, if you see a young boy hitchhiking on the side of
00:18:54the thruway, pick him up.
00:18:56He's trying to make it to Saratoga.
00:18:59So, yeah.
00:19:00Some of my fondest moments.
00:19:04In life, as far as horse racing goes.
00:19:08We're at Saratoga with my father.
00:19:10You know, I was there when Onion beat Secretariat.
00:19:16Wow.
00:19:17I used to be out there and I'd be one of those little boys chasing the jockeys and getting them
00:19:25to sign autographs.
00:19:29So, if you ever told me that I was going to win three grade ones on a weekend at Saratoga,
00:19:38I don't, you can't even, you can't even dream that up.
00:19:43You know, after counting stars won, I was really apprehensive because I was like, surely the racing gods aren't going
00:19:52to let us win two in one day.
00:19:55But they did.
00:19:57We had won two.
00:19:58You know, we won a stake.
00:20:00It wasn't as big, but a couple of days earlier as well with Mibago.
00:20:05So, it was a good, it was a good meet.
00:20:10So, Mark, let's look at what was obviously the highlight of your three days was nitrogen just obliterating the competition
00:20:17in the Ogden Phipps.
00:20:18And two-part question.
00:20:19First of all, she didn't run poorly in her earlier two races or prior two races.
00:20:24But she did get beat, and the bar is set very high for her because she's a champion.
00:20:29Were you a little bit worried about her at all, worried that maybe she hadn't come back as strong as
00:20:33a four-year-old as she was as a three-year-old?
00:20:36No, I, you know, I think Randy and I have had this conversation on a couple times.
00:20:42I told Randy after when she won the Bay of Cola, I thought it was the best performance maybe of
00:20:47her career.
00:20:47So, everybody was kind of down on her, but I wasn't.
00:20:51You know, she ran a 97.
00:20:53She earned a 97 buyer for her.
00:20:58That's a personal joke from Randy and I.
00:21:01But, you know, in the Bay of Cola.
00:21:04And the more and more it was the Zuri.
00:21:07She just could not handle the track.
00:21:09I know she had handled the slot previously, but she didn't handle it.
00:21:15You know, Jose, who knows her so well, came back and said he's never felt her so exhausted.
00:21:22And then her next race, which was the Apple Blossom, she ran a good – she ran a race.
00:21:30The other filly freaked.
00:21:31And as I thought, the two fillies that beat her in the Zuri, she trounced.
00:21:38So, you know, she deserves – it's interesting.
00:21:42You won't see too many horses that you look down their PPs and they have nothing but graded stakes.
00:21:48I mean, in their last 12 starts.
00:21:51So, I was just so happy with the way she was training.
00:21:55And Jose rode Mibago for me, I think it was on Wednesday.
00:22:02And I said, wait till you see the big mayor.
00:22:05I said, she is ready like I've never seen her before.
00:22:11And I sat and I thought she just was amazing.
00:22:17And, you know, I changed – we changed things up a little bit.
00:22:21I seldom ever give instructions.
00:22:24Usually, it's good luck and be safe.
00:22:29And Jose came into the paddock.
00:22:33And I said, Jose, I think we're going to be on the lead.
00:22:37And he said, no, the one's going to show speed and then the outside horse.
00:22:43I said, I don't want you to – when she wants to go, you let her go.
00:22:50If they want to beat her, then let them come after her.
00:22:54And if you watched about the last two minutes before the race, everybody was walking around with their ponies except
00:23:03her.
00:23:05Jose was warming her up and he had her ready.
00:23:08And I think maybe – maybe, you know, maybe we've been doing this all wrong.
00:23:16She has a tremendous turn of foot.
00:23:20If you watch when she ran in the spinster, there were some fast horses.
00:23:24Even in the Breeders' Cup, they were rolling.
00:23:28And you can see Jose just sitting there.
00:23:32I think maybe you just go with her.
00:23:35And if they want to try to run with her, fine.
00:23:39But it's not going to happen.
00:23:41And that's why she ran so fast.
00:23:43She just has this high cruising speed and she can go.
00:23:48And we know, you know, previously, you're sitting there, you're sitting on her rating.
00:23:54She doesn't have a quick turn of foot.
00:23:56In fact, on more than one occasion, when I see Jose ask her to run, she kind of – it's
00:24:04like hitting the gas pedal and not getting anything right away.
00:24:09And I've seen her do that a couple times.
00:24:12So, people ask me, what was the big turnaround?
00:24:15One, I think she's on top of her game.
00:24:17She looks magnificent.
00:24:19She is so happy.
00:24:21But I think the change in strategy was a big part of it.
00:24:26She got a 113 buyer speed figure for that win.
00:24:29The inside joke that Mark was referring to a second ago.
00:24:33So, Mark and I exchanged quite a few text messages and phone calls about buyer speed figures.
00:24:39Mark's not only a good handicapper, he's quite the student of speed figures.
00:24:44And he can actually look at a day and predict with a great deal of accuracy what the buyer speed
00:24:52figure is going to wind up being.
00:24:54And at one point, Mark said, well, you gave this horse a 96.
00:24:59And I said, no, no, no, no, no.
00:25:00I didn't give the horse anything.
00:25:03The horse earned a 96.
00:25:06And so, Mark's had a laugh about that a few times.
00:25:09So, from that point on, I always say he earned 113 buyers.
00:25:17Randy didn't give him 113 – give her 113 buyer.
00:25:21But, yeah, him and I'll go – I remember at Oakland, we had a horse.
00:25:30He ran really fast and got a big number.
00:25:32And then he came back and ran really slow.
00:25:35And I remember talking to Randy and saying, he goes, I don't know that – the number didn't come back
00:25:43very good.
00:25:43I said, no, it didn't.
00:25:46And you know what?
00:25:47The number didn't lie.
00:25:49It was right.
00:25:51It was right.
00:25:53So, yeah, I have fun trying to predict.
00:25:56Now, I have to be honest.
00:25:59I had a tough time with nitrogen, trying to figure out what she was going to get.
00:26:07I knew it was going to be big, but I didn't know, you know, how big.
00:26:11And the thing about nitrogen winning was there were a lot of people taking shots at me about running her
00:26:21on the dirt versus the grass.
00:26:24And the thing that sold me that made me believe that she's truly a good dirt horse was when she
00:26:33won the Wonder again, even though it was a three-horse field.
00:26:37It wasn't about what she beat.
00:26:39She ran the race prior to the Met Mile.
00:26:42And she ran one-fifth of a second slower than the older males ran the Met Mile.
00:26:47The same day, one race, she was the previous race before the Met Mile.
00:26:54And if you watch her, she galloped the last quarter of a mile.
00:26:59She wasn't even trying.
00:27:00And I knew that at that point in time that she was a serious dirt horse.
00:27:09And, but yeah, I still, I read, I read Matt Burner said, Burner said, I've never liked her on the
00:27:19dirt.
00:27:20And I was, after the race, I said, I wonder if he likes her now.
00:27:26So, your other grade one winners that you had over the weekend were Classic Q in the Just a Game
00:27:32and Counting Stars in the Acorn.
00:27:33And I know from talking to you about both Phillies over the last few months, there have been some challenges.
00:27:40Frustrations might be a little bit of a harsh word.
00:27:43But let's talk about Classic Q for a second.
00:27:46I know there have been challenges in trying to figure out her temperament.
00:27:50You know, how to keep her from getting set off.
00:27:54What her best running style is.
00:27:57At one point, it looked like maybe a come from behind running style might be okay for her.
00:28:01Now, not so much.
00:28:02So, talk a little bit about the challenges there and the flyover in the paddock before the Just a Game.
00:28:08How much do you think that'll cost me to get another flyover?
00:28:12So, you know, Randy, I've always said, in fact, if you go and you look at my Hall of Fame
00:28:19plaque,
00:28:20it says training horses is like putting a puzzle together.
00:28:25You have to keep trying the pieces until you figure out how they fit.
00:28:29I've tried a lot of different pieces and puzzles with her.
00:28:34You know, I thought for a while, I thought her best race early on was a race allowance race that
00:28:41she won at Churchill.
00:28:46She settled that day and came with a big run.
00:28:49And I thought she was very impressive.
00:28:51In fact, I think you and I may have talked about that one.
00:28:54I don't know who does Churchill, who does the buyer numbers?
00:28:58Andy.
00:28:59Andy.
00:29:00Andy Byer.
00:29:01I remember me telling you that I think Andy missed it there big time.
00:29:07And but I thought her number was much better than what she ran that day.
00:29:12So I tried that for a little while.
00:29:14And guess what?
00:29:15It didn't work.
00:29:17And I tell you, Johnny's made a big she's very tough.
00:29:21She's very tough to ride because if she breaks a little slow and if you ask her to go, it's
00:29:28over.
00:29:29So you've got to let her break, let her sit for a minute and she'll take off herself.
00:29:34And Johnny knows her very well.
00:29:36So as far as the flyover, they were coming, I think they're telling me there was an inquiry
00:29:43that raced before.
00:29:44So the the flyover came a little late.
00:29:48Well, it came when we were entering the paddock and she did her own flyover.
00:29:54She I mean, she came off.
00:29:57In fact, Sheree walked by me and I didn't have any idea.
00:30:02I didn't see it.
00:30:02She goes, you might want to check her hind shoes.
00:30:04They may be gone.
00:30:06So, uh, then it just got her really riled up and she was fired up and she's usually
00:30:13she's gotten as she's gotten older, a little more common, but she wasn't.
00:30:18And then she was freezing on the track and I'm like, you know, I was, I just didn't expect
00:30:26that kind of effort after because she used a lot of her energy, but she ran well.
00:30:32Um, Mark, she ran an excellent race and she's one of those mayors that obviously the mile
00:30:38is her best distance.
00:30:40So for the Breeders' Cup for fillies and mayors, there's not a perfect fit.
00:30:44Could she be a Breeders' Cup mile horse?
00:30:46No, I, well, we're going to find out because we're going to run her in the, the, uh, four
00:30:53star Dave and, um, we'll find out she's going to have to pick up her game.
00:30:58Uh, I've been very fortunate.
00:31:00I've won the four star Dave a couple of times with fillies.
00:31:03I think this fillies is talented as that's that stormy was.
00:31:08So we'll see, but she's going to have targets on her back now.
00:31:11And then also some of the serious, uh, milers have a lot of speed.
00:31:16So we'll say one thing about it.
00:31:19If you run with her, you won't be around at the end.
00:31:22Now she may not be, but you know, you would pay a price for doing that.
00:31:27So to answer your question, Bill, the only way I see her making the Breeders' Cup would
00:31:32be, you know, a huge performance in the four star Dave, but not, you'll see her back in
00:31:38Kentucky downs running for a couple of million dollars, probably going six and a half.
00:31:43So, and in turning the tables on, uh, always a runner and meaning in the acorn counting
00:31:49stars, certainly tossed her head into the ring for the three-year-old Philly, uh, divisional
00:31:54championship with a pretty decisive win.
00:31:57And it's not like classic Q exactly, but there were a couple of moments in counting stars
00:32:02career that really had you scratching your head when she would just be out of nowhere,
00:32:07like the race at Oakland, was it the Martha Washington where she's just a complete no-show
00:32:12for no reason?
00:32:14Well, the only, yeah, really for no reason, Randy, the only thing we did have some bad
00:32:20weather and she missed some training as did everybody else.
00:32:24I don't know if that affected her or not, but I will say this.
00:32:28Um, I, I really, Francisco did a wonderful job with her and that day he said, he asked
00:32:37her two or three times to go and she said, no.
00:32:41And he said, I better take care of her.
00:32:44And that's why she got beat the way, you know, he said, cause she's very eager to please.
00:32:49And when he asked her to go and she didn't, he asked her again and she didn't, he goes,
00:32:56something's wrong.
00:32:57Turned out she was absolutely fine.
00:33:00You know, funny thing about her is I, I don't even remember the last time I nominated a Philly
00:33:07to the triple crown, but that's what I thought of her.
00:33:10Um, in fact, going to the, uh, Derby week, we had like 15 horses and I did an interview
00:33:18somewhere and said, if you only won one race this week, which race would it be?
00:33:23And I said, the Oaks, the counting stars.
00:33:28And then, um, another kind of story, uh, about three or four days after the Derby,
00:33:34fate 30 at night.
00:33:36And I get a call from IRAD.
00:33:38I said, what's he calling me?
00:33:40Four, you know, but him and I are close.
00:33:43He goes, I, Mark, I want to ride silent tactic in the Preakness.
00:33:48I said, well, if we run him in the Preakness, you can ride him, but I want you to ride
00:33:53counting
00:33:54stars in the A chord.
00:33:56And that's how it, yeah.
00:33:58So he, he said to me after the race, you were right.
00:34:02You want, I needed to write counting stars.
00:34:04She was pretty impressive because things didn't go.
00:34:07So she, she can get a little, now as she's grown up, she's gotten better, but she can
00:34:14get a little intimidated inside.
00:34:16And I think that probably got her a little trouble in the Oaks.
00:34:20She did save some ground, but she couldn't get clear sailing until very late in the race.
00:34:26And, you know, uh, when I read came to the paddock, he goes, I said, I think you might
00:34:33be on the lead.
00:34:33And he said, maybe, um, but I know one thing I'm going to get her in clear sailing.
00:34:41And, and that's what he did.
00:34:42He ended up, we got outrun a little bit, uh, McPeak decided to send his filly to the lead
00:34:48and kind of, so we went to plan B, but, um, she accelerated.
00:34:53I thought she won, you know, with some authority, uh, ran a good, you know, ran a good number.
00:35:00It was, it was real.
00:35:01It wasn't, you know, you, that wasn't a fluke.
00:35:05That's what she is.
00:35:06She is that good.
00:35:09Mark, it's about time that I think you'll be, uh, unveiling your two-year-olds.
00:35:13You're always very strong in that division.
00:35:15How do they look this year?
00:35:16And can you give us a name or two that we should keep an eye on?
00:35:20Um, I think now, look, you never know where the, when the next nitrogen is going to show
00:35:27up or the next classic cue.
00:35:29Um, I would tell you that normally this time of year, I, I would think that I have four
00:35:39or five potential stars, superstars.
00:35:44Again, they don't always work out.
00:35:46I would tell you this year, I have 15 of them.
00:35:50So, wow.
00:35:51Yeah.
00:35:53So we'll see who, who moves to the top.
00:35:56Um, I'm, I'm really, I really like, uh, Voyager.
00:36:02She's in tomorrow at Churchill.
00:36:04Now, always remember, and you, Randy's heard me say it a million times.
00:36:10Um, you know, winning first time out is not ever my goal.
00:36:14If, if it happens, it happens.
00:36:16Um, my friend, Aaron, you go to says Mark trains for a career, not a race.
00:36:21And I actually think maybe not so much early on at this time, but winning first time out
00:36:28is detrimental.
00:36:29Um, I think horses need to learn to, uh, I think they're much better to learn in maiden
00:36:35races.
00:36:36I always tell my riders, I've said this for 25 years with a first time starter.
00:36:42I'd rather be a closing fourth than a dying third.
00:36:45So in other words, we want them to learn to run by horses, right?
00:36:50And, um, so I I'm really high on her.
00:36:54And then we run a horse on Friday, the first flight line, his name's Greenwell.
00:37:02Whoa.
00:37:03Yeah.
00:37:04And, um, I think he's pretty darn good also.
00:37:10So you're telling us not to empty the bankroll on Voyager.
00:37:13Or no, in her debut tomorrow.
00:37:17Okay.
00:37:17You know, the other thing, Randy is I'm always, I want to, they told me yesterday, I was told
00:37:23that there was only, I think five trainers that have won back to back acorns that the,
00:37:29uh, the last one was Bob.
00:37:32And then the, another one was 1964.
00:37:35So I would have been three.
00:37:37So I don't remember that one.
00:37:39And then Ben Jones and a couple others.
00:37:41So I'm, uh, when I have these good horses, I'm thinking about winning the acorn next year
00:37:49for the Oaks.
00:37:51And this, their first race or two, it's not that important to me.
00:37:57One more quick question for me.
00:38:00Okay.
00:38:00Sorry.
00:38:01I was going to say, Alan Jerkins always told me you got to run them five times before you
00:38:05make a decision of what they are.
00:38:09So, uh, silent, so you mentioned silent tactic a minute ago, he's had a couple of breezes
00:38:15now at Saratoga.
00:38:16I think he breezed on Saturday morning.
00:38:17What's the, uh, what's the immediate, uh, itinerary for him, you think?
00:38:22Yeah.
00:38:22Every time I, I, I, I point a race, something goes wrong.
00:38:27Um, so I've been hesitant to say it, but things continue on the way they are.
00:38:34You might see him try the Derby winner and the Jim Dandy.
00:38:37So we'll see.
00:38:39Okay.
00:38:42Very good.
00:38:43Well, Mark, thank you so much for being our Gainesway guest that we can, again, congratulations
00:38:47on a historic run at Saratoga.
00:38:49And that's exciting news that you think you got some superstars among your two-year-olds
00:38:54in your barn.
00:38:54And you're always a great guest.
00:38:56You're always great with your time and we appreciate it so much.
00:38:59Once again, thanks so much for joining us here on the TDN Riders Room podcast.
00:39:03Thanks for having me guys.
00:39:05Mark Cassie, our guest of the week appeared courtesy of Gainesway Farm, home to the stallion
00:39:10McKenzie.
00:39:11McKenzie, the sire of Scottish Lassie.
00:39:14That grade one winner who kicked off her 2026 season in a big way at Saratoga on Sunday.
00:39:20Scottish Lassie won an allowance race by eight and a half lengths.
00:39:25Buyer's speed figure in that race, 99.
00:39:27McKenzie is the sire of 44 winners, including Scottish Lassie in 2026.
00:39:33And McKenzie leads all third crop sires by the cumulative number of grade one winners
00:39:39and performers with three winners and five grade one stakes performers, respectively.
00:39:46McKenzie stands at Gainesway for $75,000.
00:39:50Gainesway, power, passion, performance.
00:39:54McKenzie in a dominant performance.
00:40:04Million two, million two, right there, a million two hundred thousand.
00:40:07Baeza gets his moment in the sun in the Pennsylvania Derby.
00:40:11Chancer, McPatrick wins the champagne impressively.
00:40:14A spectacular display from Scottish Lassie, who's in front by 15 legs.
00:40:24On this week's edition of First Things First, our own Jessica Pfeiffer caught up with trainer
00:40:29Phil D'Amato, who offered a one-two punch in the honeymoon stakes.
00:40:38Well, my daughter Gracie gets her first interview here.
00:40:41We're covering her face.
00:40:42But happy connections with Daria in the grade three honeymoon.
00:40:46Billy, just talk about her trip.
00:40:47It was a very close call for both of your horses here.
00:40:51You know, credit Phil and his team.
00:40:54It was Phil's fault that we ran her back too quickly last time.
00:40:57He'll take full blame for that.
00:40:59And he had her ready to fire today.
00:41:01And the inbox ran a huge race as well.
00:41:03And Kintrigue set the pace.
00:41:04And she really tried hard.
00:41:05So, you know, it's just great to be here.
00:41:08And it's great to be with Gracie.
00:41:10Well, Grandpa, we got to call you Grandpa now.
00:41:12Trainer Phil D'Amato.
00:41:13Just talk about her trip as well as your other entrance in the race.
00:41:16To be honest with you, I was looking at an inbox the whole time.
00:41:19I didn't even see where Daria came from.
00:41:21But I just heard the call late.
00:41:23And then next thing you know, it was a photo finish.
00:41:26So, very exciting.
00:41:27Proud of both those fillies.
00:41:29They've come a long way.
00:41:30Both broke their maidens here.
00:41:32They've developed.
00:41:33And one's a stake winner.
00:41:35And another one's a stake place.
00:41:37So, onwards and upwards.
00:41:38And Del Mar, here we come.
00:41:40Gary, just talk about how fun it is to win with all these people,
00:41:42all your owners, and how important they are to you.
00:41:44With three horses, so many partners showed up to you.
00:41:47Here's Kevin Bogart, one of our great partners.
00:41:49Such a super guy.
00:41:50And to win a race like this for Kevin and all the partners,
00:41:54it really is incredible.
00:41:55Kevin, I think we need to add a new name onto your shirt, right?
00:41:58That's right.
00:41:58Yeah, or two maybe even.
00:42:00How about that?
00:42:01Yeah.
00:42:01Well, congratulations to you guys.
00:42:04Honeymoon Stakes goes to Daria with a close call on the wire.
00:42:11Many thanks to Jess and, of course, her baby Gracie,
00:42:14who was front and center stage there in stepfather and grandfather Phil D'Amato's arms.
00:42:21All right, let's get back to Santa Anita.
00:42:23We do have a special bonus day of racing on Thursday.
00:42:26Stakes action to boot with the Affirm Stakes taking center stage on Thursday.
00:42:30We'll run Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday,
00:42:34the final day of the summer Hollywood Park meeting.
00:42:37We'll be on Sunday, and we'll finish it out strong with the San Juan Capistrano Stakes.
00:42:43Well, the one thing we did get right on the show last week,
00:42:46none of us picked Golden Tempo, and none of us were particularly high on him,
00:42:50but the one thing we did get right was that the Belmont undercard would be fantastic.
00:42:54And boy, did it live up to his billing.
00:42:56There was just one great race after another, and we can start with the Woody Stevens,
00:43:01which was the showdown between Crude Velocity and Englishman.
00:43:04This is one I got wrong as well.
00:43:07In the Pate Mile, Crude Velocity really had Englishman's number.
00:43:11I thought he probably proved he was the better horse,
00:43:14but you certainly have to look differently at that.
00:43:17I don't know why Englishman turned the tables precisely.
00:43:20Maybe it was the difference of the seven furlongs to the one mile,
00:43:23but this was arguably the performance of the day.
00:43:28I wouldn't even say arguably.
00:43:29It was the performance of the day.
00:43:31He blew the doors off.
00:43:33Very, very good horse.
00:43:34The buyer number was off the charts.
00:43:38Three-year-old or not, he's got to be Randy, the best sprinter in the country.
00:43:42Oh, I think he is, based on what we just saw.
00:43:46Yeah, like it was, I think it was, it's easy to say that it was a combination of the cutback
00:43:53from a mile to seven furlongs
00:43:55and what was a very speed-favoring racetrack at that time,
00:43:59which gave him a little bit of an edge over Crude Velocity,
00:44:02who typically doesn't break all that well from the starting gate,
00:44:05certainly not as quickly as Englishman does.
00:44:08But there was even more than that.
00:44:09I mean, Englishman was, it just took us a huge step forward in general, I think,
00:44:15from his race in the Pat Day Mile, where he was the target on the lead in the Pat Day
00:44:20Mile.
00:44:21And in the Woody Stevens, he had a little bit more of a relaxed trip outside of the leader.
00:44:28They went fast, so I don't know how relaxed it was.
00:44:32But he was certainly, Zoe, looked like a bit of a different horse.
00:44:36He broke like he meant business.
00:44:38He broke like a shot.
00:44:40And like you said, Crude Velocity broke like he always breaks, a little bit tardy, got in between horses.
00:44:47Flo did a pretty good job of trying to navigate a clean trip with him.
00:44:50But he broke like a shot, let Solitude go.
00:44:53The fractions were 21, 48, 43, 97, 107.56.
00:44:58Stopped the clock in 1.20 and 2, a new track record with his head bowed.
00:45:03He was absolutely bloody brilliant.
00:45:06I'm not sure there are any more words you could possibly say.
00:45:10He was absolutely fantastic.
00:45:12He's by Maxfield.
00:45:13I'm not sure we ever saw the best of Maxfield, the racetrack.
00:45:17I remember looking at him at Keeneland.
00:45:19He's out of a Spicetown man thinking as a yearling.
00:45:23He's much more compact than Maxfield's usually are.
00:45:26It's all Spicetown.
00:45:28All Spicetown.
00:45:29He's on this compact horse, beautiful mover.
00:45:32Seems now like they stole him for $400,000.
00:45:37His dam, in fact, she was trained by Rudy Rodriguez.
00:45:41She broke her maiden.
00:45:43The second dam, I just looked this up and I'm like, gosh, I wonder why I remembered her name.
00:45:48All due respect.
00:45:49Trained by the late, great Kathy Walsh.
00:45:51I got on her a few times and worked her for Kathy.
00:45:54She ran second in the Santonita Oaks.
00:45:56She wound up being trained by Rick Dutrow when she moved back east, but she was a very, very good
00:46:02filly indeed.
00:46:03So Englishman, just sensational.
00:46:05And he, I think with crude velocity, you have to say he regressed.
00:46:10He's not an overly big statured horse.
00:46:13And that race at Churchill might have just taken the starch out of him.
00:46:18I love Bob's quotes after the race.
00:46:20We will never, ever, ever run against that horse ever again, unless it's around two turns.
00:46:28So I guess we'll see crude velocity in the Haskell probably next time out.
00:46:33This was perfect.
00:46:34Zoe, native of England, declares that Englishman was bloody brilliant.
00:46:40He was, absolutely.
00:46:44Was he 114?
00:46:44The moods wasn't all bad for the Bob Baffert stable because if the Englishman wasn't the best horse of the
00:46:50day,
00:46:50but he could make an argument that Nysos was.
00:46:53The Met Mile was absolutely loaded, as we talked about.
00:46:57And he just went out and won and dominated one of the best fields you could assemble for this race,
00:47:04winning by four.
00:47:05And we were talking about horse of the year earlier.
00:47:08I mean, he's certainly got to be in the conversation, depending on what he does.
00:47:11What a career this horse has had.
00:47:13He's 8 for 10 with two seconds.
00:47:15He's a neck and one length from being undefeated.
00:47:19And he just went out and absolutely pulverized a very, very good field.
00:47:24And what I found was interesting, also Bob's quotes afterwards, he's kind of kept the horse to a mile, mile
00:47:30and a 16th.
00:47:31It says he's going in the Whitney next with him.
00:47:34And if he wins the Whitney, I think that certainly opens up the doors for him to possibly be a
00:47:41Breeders' Cup classic horse.
00:47:43It's fine to win the Breeders' Cup dirt mile, but, you know, that's not what you want to do.
00:47:48And I assume this will be his last race, last year before he goes off to stud.
00:47:53And what a way he could finish off his career.
00:47:55But right now that Met Mile win is the highlight of a horse who has had an absolutely brilliant career,
00:48:03Zoe.
00:48:04Sensational.
00:48:05So 114 for Englishman, right, Randy?
00:48:09115.
00:48:10115 for Englishman.
00:48:11What did Nisos get?
00:48:12109?
00:48:13109.
00:48:14109 for Nisos.
00:48:15And, you know, we talked going into it last week that he was going to need a Hall of Fame
00:48:20ride by Pratt from the rail.
00:48:22And that is exactly what he got.
00:48:25I mean, if you're in a jockey school, you keep that video on your favorites list and play it to
00:48:32every single apprentice jockey there ever is and say, watch this.
00:48:36This is how you become a Hall of Famer.
00:48:39That was about as good as you're going to get.
00:48:41Now, I think Bob was ready for his second heart attack when he saw him take back, like going into
00:48:46the second turn.
00:48:47He's like, oh, Jesus, what the hell's going on now?
00:48:49Because he hadn't had a good day leading up to then.
00:48:52But he broke like he was supposed to for that first half a turn, got him out of trouble.
00:48:58And then he got swarmed.
00:48:59It was speed all day, like you said.
00:49:01And everyone was like, I've got to be on the lead.
00:49:03I've got to be on the lead.
00:49:04So what does Pratt do?
00:49:06He just eases him back.
00:49:07I'm not sure he took him back because the first quarter was 23 and 2.
00:49:11It wasn't that fast.
00:49:13And then they picked it up the second quarter so much so they overtook him and Pratt didn't panic.
00:49:19He just sat there and then came around absolutely brilliant by Pratt.
00:49:24Yeah, it helps if you're well mounted.
00:49:26I'm not going to lie.
00:49:27That definitely helps.
00:49:28He was terrific.
00:49:30You know, you've got to feel for journalism, don't you?
00:49:33What a good horse he is.
00:49:34And he runs his race every single time and just can't quite get it done.
00:49:42I mean, you've really got to feel for him.
00:49:44He's just come along seemingly in the wrong year or two.
00:49:49The real disappointment of the race, I thought, was Knight's Bridge.
00:49:53You know, we all thought when he was beating up on some of those lesser horses at Gulfstream that he
00:49:58was going to be the early met mile favorite
00:50:00and could conceivably be the best older horse in training.
00:50:04And he's been, as they say, he's been found out against the tougher competition in each of his last two
00:50:11starts.
00:50:11And he really had not much of an excuse, I thought, in the met mile.
00:50:15He's just not as good as we thought he was at one point.
00:50:19Randy, you did run second.
00:50:22Beat some pretty good horses.
00:50:24Yeah, but he's not nearly as good as Nysos.
00:50:27Right.
00:50:29All right, so let's turn our attention to the race.
00:50:32I want to talk about the true north as the official, the president of the Bookum Dano fan club.
00:50:39He was fantastic.
00:50:41And how about Frank Miramati's call?
00:50:43Wins with condescending ease.
00:50:45And, you know, he's such a cool horse.
00:50:48And, you know, there was some doubts coming into the race.
00:50:51He says, racing the carter was really not that good for a horse of his stature.
00:50:56He got beat.
00:50:56He got beat by a horse that was one time claimed for $40,000.
00:51:01But Derek Ryan, the trainer before the race, said, I didn't have him ready.
00:51:04I made a mistake.
00:51:05He says, I really honed down him.
00:51:07You'll see the real Bookum Dano.
00:51:09And the race really came down to about the final 60, 70 yards, where at that point he was still
00:51:18length and a half, maybe two lengths off the lead.
00:51:21And then he just put in a spurt.
00:51:24And it wasn't Paco going to the whip 600 times.
00:51:28Paco didn't even go to the whip.
00:51:29If he just put the whip away and he won and got by Ben Tornado in what was a very
00:51:37interesting showdown because of the two horses and sort of a controversial Eclipse Award race last year, I think he
00:51:43proved without a doubt that he was the best horse.
00:51:46And if you read my coverage today in the Thoroughbred Daily News, how cool is this?
00:51:50His next start will be at Monmouth Park on July 17th in the Mr. Prospector Stakes.
00:51:55Why is he running there?
00:51:56Because they're going to showcase him back home in front of the home crowd in Jersey and have a special
00:52:01Bookum Dano day.
00:52:03And you can count on me being there with my Bookum Dano t-shirt cheering him on.
00:52:07So, you know what?
00:52:09Is he the best horse that ever lived?
00:52:12No.
00:52:12But he is so cool, Randy, and so easy to root for.
00:52:16Go ahead, Zoe, before I rain just a little bit on Bill's parade here.
00:52:20I know you're going to rain on this parade.
00:52:21We know.
00:52:22We know.
00:52:23Go ahead, Zoe.
00:52:24Go ahead.
00:52:25Visually great.
00:52:26Very cool.
00:52:27I was delighted.
00:52:28I was so happy Paco didn't pick up the shillelagh because, you know, they were watching.
00:52:33They don't care what he does over there at Monmouth Park, but they're sure as hell going to watch him
00:52:38at Saratoga.
00:52:39So I'm glad he kept both hands on the reins, which was good and great.
00:52:45He was fantastic.
00:52:46And he beat a decent field, fair and square.
00:52:51I'm glad he won.
00:52:53I was rooting for him because of Bill and because of the story and the ownership and being a Jersey
00:52:59bread.
00:52:59And he's just a cool horse to root for.
00:53:01And on Saturday, he was the best horse in that race.
00:53:06No doubt about it.
00:53:07But he shouldn't have won.
00:53:11We talk at length about, you know, how awesome the best riders in America are.
00:53:17Flavian Pratt, Irad Ortiz, Jose Ortiz.
00:53:21The way that track was playing at Saratoga on Saturday, and I think he would probably tell you this today.
00:53:27Irad Ortiz completely blew that race.
00:53:31Ben Tornado outbrakes the field.
00:53:34A long shot named Listen Up Chance throws a fit in the starting gate, brakes slowly.
00:53:39Right?
00:53:40Irad's got the lead all by himself on a supremely fast speed and rail racetrack.
00:53:49And what does Irad do?
00:53:51He keeps Ben Tornado in the four path.
00:53:54For the first eighth of a mile, he had the rail.
00:53:56He could have easily closed off the field, took the best part of the racetrack.
00:54:01Instead, he keeps him three, four paths off the rail and allows that horse Listen Up Chance to scurry through
00:54:07the inside and hook him in extremely fast fractions when he could have closed the door on it.
00:54:13And as it turns out, he's beaten, what, a neck or whatever.
00:54:18The way that racetrack was playing, if Irad did what he should have done and steered the horse to the
00:54:24rail and had the best part of the racetrack and perhaps avoided a head-to-head speed confrontation, he wins
00:54:31the race and book him down to a second.
00:54:33Ah, me, Bill.
00:54:34I'm not buying that.
00:54:36Yeah, I don't buy it for a minute.
00:54:37And by the way, Irad Ortiz Jr. just called.
00:54:41He will not be our guest.
00:54:43Oh, he may be the best jockey in the world.
00:54:47He's a fantastic rider.
00:54:48But even the best jockeys will sometimes have races that they wish they had back.
00:54:54And in hindsight, I think that's one of them.
00:54:58Were you one of those kids when you were three, told your parents, there is no Santa Claus.
00:55:03I don't believe it.
00:55:04Hey, I'm just trying to analyze this thing the best way I can.
00:55:09All right.
00:55:10Mr. Grinch there, Randy Moss.
00:55:12So anyways, all right.
00:55:14The Manhattan was won for the second straight year by deterministic.
00:55:17And what a job Miguel Clement has done since the sad passing of his father.
00:55:21It's the second straight year that this horse has won the race.
00:55:24He came into it with the exact same training pattern, having won the Fort Marcy as a prep.
00:55:30And again, you know, we don't give a lot of love to these, you know, long distance turf horses.
00:55:35But boy, is he very, very good.
00:55:36And, you know, the funny thing was that the both Kendrick Carmouche and Miguel Clement said, we're going to the
00:55:43lead.
00:55:43We're getting the lead.
00:55:44No one's going to go to this.
00:55:45And they didn't get to the lead.
00:55:46They were they were second early.
00:55:47It didn't make any difference.
00:55:49And deterministic wins the Manhattan for the second straight year, Randy.
00:55:54Five straight stakes wins for deterministic.
00:55:58Three of those stakes wins are grade ones, including two Manhattans in a row now.
00:56:04Look, I thought he was he was tremendous.
00:56:07I mean, it was a good field test score and one stripe second and third were the one to finishers
00:56:13in the Pegasus World Cup turf for gray emotion.
00:56:16Test score didn't fire a Churchill, but both of them ran huge and deterministic just was he lived up to
00:56:22his name.
00:56:23I mean, he was the most determined horse in the field, like the recent past performances indicated.
00:56:28And he didn't get off to a great start.
00:56:30Hence, that's why he wasn't on the lead.
00:56:32He took a bit of a stutter step at the start and rhetorical went to the lead, which was just
00:56:37fine.
00:56:38The turf course had played extraordinary quick all week.
00:56:41It was kicking up dust clouds, which I was like, oh, what's going on there?
00:56:45So he was definitely in the right spot, which is close to the front on the turf course.
00:56:51Got a terrific ride by a guy who knows him very, very well in Kendrick Carmouche, who's as good as
00:56:55anyone on the right horse.
00:56:58And, you know, this is a horse who Miguel Clement holds near and dear to his heart.
00:57:02His first grade one winner.
00:57:04It was right after Christophe Pass, deterministic, ran last year in the grade one Manhattan and won.
00:57:10So this is a horse who I think Miguel could probably rightly say is one of his favorites in the
00:57:16barn.
00:57:16He is a cool dude.
00:57:18Now, rhetorical, again, you know, trying to analyze this thing as best we can.
00:57:22Finished fourth, I believe.
00:57:23Had almost exactly the same kind of front-running trip that he had at Churchill Downs in the Turf Classic,
00:57:29where he won and ran a career high, like a 107 buyer's speed figure.
00:57:34He had a bit of a foot problem coming into the Manhattan.
00:57:37I think he ran with an aluminum plate on the bottom of his foot, which couldn't have helped him.
00:57:43I don't think he was quite as good as he was at Churchill Downs.
00:57:48But I have a feeling these two horses will see each other again.
00:57:53We're going to take a break.
00:57:54We're going to hear from our friends at the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association,
00:57:57and we're going to find out what's going on at Santa Anita and who was the work of the week
00:58:02for First TV's work of the week segment.
00:58:04And when we come back, more talk.
00:58:07We're going to talk about another three-year-old who kind of slipped under the radar,
00:58:10but had a big performance on Sunday at Churchill Downs.
00:58:13Stay with us.
00:58:15The TAD and Writer's Room also brought to you by the Pennsylvania Horse Breeders Association, the PHBA.
00:58:21It's that time of year again for Pennsylvania's second annual yearling show.
00:58:28It'll take place on Saturday, June the 20th at the Brandywine Polo Club in Kennett Square from 10 a.m.
00:58:35to 3 p.m.
00:58:36Be there and get a look at next year's PA Bread Champions up close.
00:58:40There will be five judging classes with over $40,000 in prize money up for grabs.
00:58:47And for more information about entering your yearling or just showing up and being there and enjoying the festivities,
00:58:53go to www.pabread.com or, as always, call Brian Sanfortillo at 610-444-1050.
00:59:03The Pennsylvania Breeding Program is the best program in the country.
00:59:07The Stallion Awards, the Owner Bonuses, also the Restrictive Races and the Stakes Races for Pennsylvania Breeds.
00:59:15Last year, 321 Pennsylvania Breeders earned Breeders Awards.
00:59:1922 Pennsylvania Breeders earned over $100,000.
00:59:24We have the best program in the country.
00:59:28Take advantage of the fantastic program that we have.
00:59:31Learn more at pabread.com.
00:59:35Be a smarter bettor with First TV, the best horses.
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00:59:53Everything you need to be informed.
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00:59:59With First TV.
01:00:03The TDN Writer's Room Work of the Week is brought to you by First TV.
01:00:07And look, look who's back on the work tab.
01:00:10It's the puma.
01:00:11I'm sorry, Gustavo.
01:00:12I cannot say puma.
01:00:14You'll remember that his trainer, Gustavo Delgado, scratched him just before the derby for what was supposed to be a
01:00:21swollen leg caused by an infection.
01:00:23Now, here he is back on the work tab for the first time since April the 18th, going an easy
01:00:29four furlongs in 52 and change.
01:00:31I may have been able to go a little bit faster than that, but it is great to see him
01:00:36back on the work tab.
01:00:38The puma.
01:00:40So, all through the three-year-old campaign and all through this podcast, we've been talking about all the best
01:00:45three-year-olds.
01:00:46And there's one that we've kind of forgotten about because after his smashing win in the bluegrass, he didn't run
01:00:50all that well in the Kentucky Derby and didn't come back in the Belmont.
01:00:54But further ado, who, again, is a horse that's been a little bit erratic, came back in the Matt Wynn
01:01:01Stakes on Sunday at Churchill Downs, trained by Brad Cox, made an interesting decision.
01:01:05Could have run him back in the Belmont Stakes, but perhaps he didn't want to run against stable mate to
01:01:10mammon.
01:01:11And it was a pretty good field that he beat it.
01:01:14I mean, it wasn't a Belmont Stakes field.
01:01:15But further ado, I'd have to say Randy is back in the mix of horses you have to consider going
01:01:23forward.
01:01:23I don't know if he's going to Haskell or to the Jim Dandy.
01:01:26It'll probably be one or the other.
01:01:27But further ado, look pretty good winning that race, I thought.
01:01:32Yeah, Cox said afterward that the Haskell would be the race they would most likely point for next.
01:01:37I think he dispelled the notion that he has to have Keeneland to run his A-level race.
01:01:45And even though he disappointed, obviously, in the Kentucky Derby, he was still in the mix at the 316th Bowl
01:01:50at the Derby.
01:01:51He was fighting it out at a mile and a quarter.
01:01:54And he got a really good trip in the mat win, set second right outside the pace setter.
01:02:00And did that sort of same familiar move that we've seen him do before and just cruised by the leader.
01:02:06I thought it was an excellent race.
01:02:07And maybe he'll be a player going forward as well.
01:02:11Very good race.
01:02:12Nice to see these horses bouncing back from the Derby.
01:02:14Because so often, as much as everyone wants to get to the Derby, it's ruined so many good horses.
01:02:20So that was encouraging to see a good win from a good horse.
01:02:25And I mean, let's face it.
01:02:26There are so many three-year-old Derbys throughout the summer that give out a lot of money.
01:02:33You don't have to go to the Haskell.
01:02:34You can go to Pennsylvania.
01:02:36You can go to the West Virginia.
01:02:38You can go to Thistledown.
01:02:39There's Derbys everywhere to win.
01:02:41There's enough to go.
01:02:45The Haskell Derby.
01:02:46So one item before we close up this edition of the Thoroughbred Daily News Writer's Room Podcast.
01:02:54Happened off the track.
01:02:55Remember Maria Burrell?
01:02:56She was the trainer of Run Happy.
01:02:59Actually got fired by Jim McInvale the day after winning the Breeders' Cup Sprint.
01:03:05But she was out of the sport for about nine years and got caught up in a big controversy.
01:03:11Namely, her bunch of horses were found starved on her father's farm.
01:03:17And she kept reapplying for a license, couldn't get a license.
01:03:22And finally, she's not licensed yet, but the hearing officer for the Kentucky, I don't call it the Kentucky Horse
01:03:29Racing Commission.
01:03:30It's got some god-awful name now, the Kentucky Gaming and whatever.
01:03:34came out with a very strongly worded opinion in favor of Maria Burrell, basically telling the Kentucky Racing Commission to
01:03:46give her her license back.
01:03:48Now, the Kentucky Racing Commission doesn't have to do it.
01:03:50But normally, when a hearing officer comes out that strongly, they will do it.
01:03:54And on Twitter and on social media, people were ripping her.
01:03:59This is just terrible.
01:04:00How can they give her a license?
01:04:03But having read – I wrote the story and having read the opinion from the hearing officer,
01:04:10she was completely exonerated when it came to what happened at her father's farm.
01:04:16Now, it's a pretty ugly situation, but if she didn't have anything to do with it, and that's what the
01:04:20authorities and what the legal system said,
01:04:24frankly, I'm okay with giving her her license back because, you know, under the law, Zoe, she didn't do anything
01:04:31wrong.
01:04:32I'm not so sure that she's going to have a great career if and when she gets her license back.
01:04:36She's still got a little bit – people, I think, will still look at this with, you know, some skepticism.
01:04:42But I think this hearing officer was right.
01:04:46Yeah, I can't pretend that I know the full ins and outs of that story.
01:04:51It happened so long ago.
01:04:52But, I mean, that's the point.
01:04:54It happened so long ago.
01:04:55It was her father's farm.
01:04:56If she was exonerated, she's already served nine years.
01:04:59That's long enough.
01:05:00If someone wants to give her horses, good luck.
01:05:02Have at it.
01:05:03Give her the license.
01:05:05And, you know, go on with it as far as I'm concerned.
01:05:09Yeah, that's the bottom line.
01:05:10I mean, I totally agree.
01:05:11Legally, she was exonerated.
01:05:13The commission is the one that chose and appointed the hearing examiner.
01:05:18I think everyone, including the hearing examiner, figured that since the commission had taken kind of a hard-line stance
01:05:25against giving Burrell a license, they had to have an ace in the hole somewhere in their reasoning.
01:05:31And I think the hearing examiner was kind of like, this is it?
01:05:34This is all you got?
01:05:36You know, give her her license, and we'll see what happens.
01:05:39Yeah, I mean, the hearing officer was almost scathing.
01:05:42It was very, very one-sided towards Maria Burrell.
01:05:45And, again, it's an ugly situation.
01:05:48But if she had nothing to do with what her father did, you can't penalize her for her father doing
01:05:53some allegedly pretty awful things.
01:05:56But, anyways.
01:05:57And the TD and Writers Room also brought to you by our longtime friends at West Point Thoroughbreds.
01:06:02What a huge day Friday at Saratoga for West Point.
01:06:06As they got to watch Counting Stars blow away Kentucky Oaks winner, always a runner, and the stretch of the
01:06:13grade one acorn stakes.
01:06:15And because West Point is headquartered at Saratoga, Counting Stars did it before dozens of West Point partners, friends, and
01:06:23supporters all there to experience it together.
01:06:25Some of those partners have been with West Point for decades.
01:06:28Others involved with Counting Stars.
01:06:30It's their very first racehorse, and they all got to share in that very special and rare moment standing in
01:06:38the winner's circle after a grade one win at Saratoga.
01:06:40And the back story, right?
01:06:42Counting Stars, just a $150,000 two-year-old acquisition by West Point's longtime bloodstock agent David N'Gordo.
01:06:50And now, what is she worth?
01:06:52She is a grade one winner with earnings on the racetrack now exceeding $1 million.
01:06:57And it was all done at Saratoga, the headquarters of West Point, making it feel a little bit like a
01:07:03hometown championship.
01:07:07All the thrills.
01:07:11Fraction of the bills.
01:07:16Experience the power of the partnership.
01:07:21Change your life, make new friends, and compete at the highest level of thoroughbred racing.
01:07:29West Point Thoroughbreds, the gold standard in racing partnerships.
01:07:33Visit westpointtv.com.
01:07:41That was a fun show, wrapping up the Belmont Stakes.
01:07:44And we're going to move on now, of course, to the second half of the season.
01:07:48The Jim Dandy, the Haskell, the Travers will be the next big three-year-old races we'll be talking about.
01:07:52Also, lots coming up in the older horse division as well.
01:07:56So, that's a wrap on this week's show.
01:07:58I want to thank our Gainsway Guests of the Week, Mark Cassie.
01:08:01I also want to thank my partners, Zoe Cabman and Randy Moss.
01:08:05Also, the people who work behind the scenes to make this show look so good.
01:08:08That's Sue Finley, Anthony LaRocca, and Aaliyah LaRocca.
01:08:12Katie Petruniak has had the week off, but I'm sure she contributed in her own way.
01:08:16And, once again, thanks, everybody, for listening and tuning in to the TDN Writers' Room Podcast.
01:08:22I've been a Mike Keenan.
01:08:24One more look at that shirt real quick, Bill.
01:08:26One more look at your shirt.
01:08:27There you go.
01:08:28Yeah.
01:08:28There it is.
01:08:29There it is.
01:08:29Our own Remy Balak from the TDN drew this shirt.
01:08:34So, you can see his cartoon in every Friday's TDN.
01:08:38This may have actually been a TDN cartoon.
01:08:40Go get him, Dan-o.
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