Dialog ASEAN25: Power plays in ASEAN’s backyard and beyond

AWANI

Join Nailah Huda with Elina Noor, Datuk Dr Ilango Karuppannan, and Chhay Lim as they unpack key takeaways from the 47th Asean Summit.

Transcript

00:00This is Dialogue ASEAN 25 with me, Naila Huda.

00:12And the 47th ASEAN Summit in Kuala Lumpur has been anything but ordinary.

00:16Marked by a landmark ceasefire deal between Thailand and Cambodia,

00:20President Trump's return to the ASEAN stage,

00:23renewed trade deals and an 11th member to the bloc.

00:27At the same time, the region faces growing uncertainty,

00:31shrinking space for neutrality and potentially new opportunities for alternative alliances.

00:37In this hour on Dialogue ASEAN 25, we'll unpack what all this means,

00:41not just for ASEAN's diplomacy and trade,

00:44but more importantly for its ability to stay united and relevant in an increasingly divided world.

00:49And so to help me unpack some of these key questions we have joining us today,

00:54Alina Noor, Senior Fellow of the Asia Program at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace,

00:59Dato Dr Ilanggo Karupanen, Founder of YouTube channel Diplomatify,

01:03and also Adjunct Senior Fellow at the SRIS, Nanyang Technological University, Singapore,

01:08and also Adjunct Professor at University of Malaya and Taylor's University.

01:12And joining us, Chai Lim, Deputy Director, Centre for Southeast Asian Studies, Royal University of Phnom Penh.

01:18Thank you so much to all our panellists for joining us today.

01:22Firstly, maybe we can start off with Alina, just some of your overall thoughts,

01:26key takeaways from the 47th ASEAN Summit.

01:30Do you see it as a diplomatic success, a balancing act, or perhaps even a missed opportunity?

01:36Alina?

01:36So I know there's been some controversy about how the ASEAN Summit went,

01:43but I think if we were to look at it purely from an objectively diplomatic standpoint,

01:47Malaysians have a lot to be proud of.

01:49The fact that there were these achievements that you just mentioned, Naila,

01:53Timor-Leste was included as the 11th member of ASEAN,

01:57the KL Peace Accord that I'm sure we'll go into,

01:59and the fact that there were no hitches to President Trump's visit,

02:05that might be a bit of a low baseline,

02:08but the fact that everything went smoothly and there were all these other deals

02:11that were signed on the margins of the ASEAN Summit a few days,

02:16I think was really quite a success for Malaysia,

02:20given the unpredictability of how it could all have gone.

02:24Dato' Ilangu, your thoughts overall on the summit?

02:27Yeah, I'm taking the longer view, you know,

02:31because I was in charge of the ASEAN Summit tree in 2005 when we were checked.

02:36At that time, we had two landmark documents,

02:38the ASEAN Charter and the ECC Summit,

02:40which was inaugurated at that time.

02:42So looking back now, I would have to say that this was a successful summit.

02:46The optics were fantastic.

02:48There were no hiccups.

02:50Like Alina said, Trump's visit went well.

02:53The signing of the peace deal, admission of Timor-Leste,

02:56all together put, you know,

02:58I think it makes for a good, successful Summit 2025.

03:04Chai Lim, everyone is rather optimistic about the summit.

03:07What are your thoughts?

03:09Thank you very much for having me.

03:11It's my great honour to sit with the fellow eminent experts here in this discussion.

03:15I think it quite contrasts to the outsider view that,

03:19I mean, the outsider criticism on the ASEAN ability

03:23and its power to bring to an end to the conflict and other regional problems.

03:30Of course, there's been a lot of frustration on ASEAN limited role.

03:35But I think we must give the credit to ASEAN,

03:38especially the chair of ASEAN this year,

03:40in showing that ASEAN is still relevant in cleaning our own house, right?

03:46Especially the problems.

03:47The high-profile one was the sign of the peace at once between Cambodia and Thailand,

03:53and with the presence of the President Donald Trump,

03:58though with the external powers engagement like the United States.

04:01But that was achieved also through ASEAN collective process

04:04that we, which we should give credits to the chair of ASEAN this year.

04:09And it also acquired support from the fellow members.

04:13So I think it would be very important to view it as a success of Malaysia as the chair

04:19and also ASEAN as a whole that we still care about the, you know,

04:24the internal problems and that ability to bring this kind of,

04:29this escalation of the conflict.

04:31Just, I would not view it as a final end of the border conflict

04:36because this is a more complex process between the two countries.

04:41But at least there's a clear sign of this de-escalation of the tension

04:47following the ceasefire that achieved earlier months.

04:52Chai, if you could elaborate a little bit more on these peace accords.

04:55As you said, it's not the final end.

04:57It's a start of de-escalation.

05:00What would it take to build on these peace accords

05:02to actually maintain peace in the long run?

05:06I would use two key terms.

05:07First of all, it's a relief.

05:09Second key term is a reminder.

05:11A relief is because for the first time, you know,

05:14after the five days of fighting,

05:17I finally choose the negotiation over escalation

05:19following the spirit in Kuala Lumpur

05:21that they signed a ceasefire agreement with both, you know,

05:24like China presence and the United States presence.

05:28But the reminder is that, well, like I said,

05:31it's because those of us who live through the legacy

05:35of the regional conflict know how fragile peace can be

05:38when it depends only on pepper.

05:41So it's still wait and see how the, you know,

05:45the strict and full implementation of the conflicting party

05:49go with this kind of de-escalation agreement

05:52that we just achieved.

05:53And at the same time, it's also remind us that, you know,

05:57ASEAN alone probably is a bit challenging

05:59in bringing to a really this kind of historic peace accord.

06:05But as you can see that this continuing push of Donald Trump

06:09and even push away the Chinese president at the end,

06:12he requested for the ceremony that has only Donald Trump present

06:17without the Chinese president.

06:18That's also a reminder for Southeast Asians

06:20that the U.S. engagement in the region

06:22is quite welcomed by all of the member states,

06:26but it's also closely watched.

06:28I don't think we have like fully trust

06:30for the consistent commitment

06:31by just seeing that he has a tendency

06:34in the ASEAN summit, not because of, you know,

06:37the strong and consistent commitment to the region,

06:39but perhaps some might view it as, you know,

06:41this kind of leverage using his trade policy

06:45and other economic coercion as a leverage

06:48to achieve a certain goal of Donald Trump

06:50and a certain goal of the United States as a whole.

06:53And just to add a quick point that it is also,

06:57you know, it's not a final settlement

06:59of the border conflict per se,

07:01but it requires a longer process

07:03of more institutional mechanisms

07:06and legitimate and minding agreement

07:07than the two countries can agree

07:10to bring an end to the border conflict.

07:11A lot of key points there.

07:15Dato' Ilanggo, your thoughts on this.

07:17Apart from the U.S.'s involvement,

07:19perhaps we can look first at ASEAN.

07:21Do you think this marks a new level of credibility

07:24for ASEAN's conflict resolution mechanisms?

07:28Well, I think it's what we call

07:31restoration of ASEAN's image in some ways

07:34because as Chai had intimated earlier,

07:38for the longest time, you know,

07:39people, when they refer to ASEAN,

07:41they talk, they refer to it as a talk shop,

07:44you know, unable to, you know,

07:46manage your own affairs and things like that.

07:49So this piece, what do you call,

07:51ceasefire at least,

07:53is a sign that ASEAN is not only,

07:56you know, is able to manage its own affairs,

07:59but it also demonstrates that

08:00there is centrality of ASEAN in Southeast Asia.

08:03It's real and it's not an imagined kind of a thing.

08:06But having said that, you know,

08:09my thoughts are ASEAN was originally conceived

08:12as an organization of conflict avoidance.

08:16You know, we did not envisage,

08:20or the organization was not created

08:22to deal with crisis and conflicts.

08:26Therefore, it did not have instruments

08:28to deal with them in an explicit manner.

08:31It had instruments to dissuade conflict.

08:33It had instruments to encourage people

08:35to live nicely together.

08:37So therefore, you had things like

08:39the Treaty of Amity and Cooperation

08:40and all that.

08:42But I think now it's, you know,

08:44we have passed so many decades.

08:46It's time for ASEAN to, you know,

08:48set in place its own, you know,

08:50conflict resolution mechanisms.

08:52Of course, under the TAC,

08:53you have this, you know,

08:55the contracting parties,

08:57high level engagement,

08:59all those kind of things.

08:59But I think, you know,

09:01they have not been able to be put

09:03into operation for several reasons.

09:05Now, with this hindsight of having

09:07dealt with Cambodia, Thailand,

09:09I think the next step conversation,

09:12at least the senior official minister,

09:13should be setting up some kind

09:15of a peace resolution kind of instrument,

09:18number one.

09:18Number two, I've also argued

09:21for a very long time

09:22that ASEAN should look at

09:24having its own peacekeeping abilities,

09:27not necessarily an intrusive thing,

09:29you know.

09:29You see, ASEAN member countries,

09:31most of us have peacekeeping experience

09:33dealing as members in the UN

09:35peacekeeping efforts.

09:37When I was ambassador in Beirut,

09:39there were three ASEAN countries

09:40which had peacekeeping forces in Beirut,

09:43Malaysia, Indonesia, and Cambodia,

09:44a very small contingent,

09:46and Brunei was embedded

09:47into the Malaysian Multicapitalian.

09:49So, it wouldn't take too long

09:52to call ourselves

09:53an ASEAN peacekeeping force.

09:55But, of course, we have to start

09:56modestly, carefully, etc.,

09:59to see where it can be applied.

10:01But the basic point is that

10:03I think ASEAN should now realize

10:06that its original model

10:08of conflict avoidance

10:09is no longer sustainable

10:12because that is where

10:13criticism will come from.

10:15ASEAN now has to work hard

10:18to have its own indigenous

10:19conflict resolution mechanisms

10:21and approaches.

10:23A lot of key points there,

10:25but I do want to hear

10:26Alina's thoughts on this.

10:28To what extent do you think

10:29this was thanks to

10:31or speaks to ASEAN's abilities

10:33in conflict resolution?

10:36Or to what extent do you think

10:38President Trump played

10:40an important role here as well?

10:42It's hard to say

10:43how much of the peace accord

10:45was due to President Trump's

10:47own trade policy

10:49or trade coercion,

10:50as Chai mentioned,

10:51and how much of it

10:52was due to the hard work

10:53of the parties involved themselves.

10:55And I suspect there was

10:57a lot of the latter

10:58going on behind the scenes

11:00because, as we all know,

11:02this principle of non-interference

11:03in ASEAN is adhered to

11:06very, very strongly

11:07regardless of how we may

11:08think of it.

11:10And Malaysia trying to mediate

11:13between both parties,

11:14Cambodia and Thailand,

11:16would have taken

11:16great diplomatic skill

11:18given the sensitivities

11:19of the issue

11:20and how long

11:21these border tensions

11:22have prevailed.

11:24We're talking, you know,

11:25not just a few years ago,

11:27but this has gone on

11:28for a really long time

11:29and it's a very complex issue

11:30predating even ASEAN.

11:33And so did President Trump's

11:37coercive measures

11:39help move the process along?

11:41Probably.

11:42Had he not picked up the phone

11:43to call the leaders

11:44of both Cambodia and Thailand,

11:46then maybe this peace accord

11:48would have taken

11:48a much longer time

11:49to get across the line.

11:51But I think it does

11:54help polish the image

11:55of ASEAN,

11:56as Dr. Ilango mentioned.

11:58The true test, of course,

12:00is what happens

12:01over the next few months

12:02because as Thai Foreign Minister

12:04Anutin himself has said,

12:06this is only the start

12:07and there needs to be

12:08the four conditions met

12:09before there can be

12:11any resumption

12:12of normal Thais.

12:14So we're in for the long haul.

12:15I agree with Chai,

12:16this is only the start.

12:18But for now,

12:20it seems as though

12:20at least from an optical standpoint,

12:23it was a great success

12:26for the peace accord

12:27to even have been signed

12:28in the first place.

12:30Chai, just another point,

12:32I'd like to get your thoughts

12:33on this.

12:34Now that we've seen,

12:36as Alina said,

12:36optically it has worked

12:38in everyone's favour,

12:39especially President Trump

12:41in his efforts

12:41to get a Nobel Peace Prize,

12:43I'm assuming.

12:43Do you think it's time

12:45for now to just

12:46let things run its course

12:48for ASEAN

12:49to handle things

12:50in its own backyard

12:51or should President Trump

12:52and the US and China

12:54remain somewhat involved?

12:58I think now

12:59it's presented

13:00very, you know,

13:01the clear choice

13:02is that ASEAN

13:03need to take

13:05either we will let

13:07the external power

13:08do its own works

13:10and having the region

13:12as the chair spot

13:13to play in the game

13:14or we must take

13:16the leadership

13:16on our own

13:17to once again,

13:19you know,

13:19take the ownership

13:21of the region

13:22ourselves,

13:23clean our own mess,

13:25setting our own agenda

13:26as we have traditionally

13:28been doing so,

13:29what we call

13:30ASEAN centrality

13:31and the regional cohesion

13:32could be more important

13:34than ever

13:35at this challenging time.

13:36I see Malaysia leadership

13:38is a good sign

13:40and setting up

13:41a very good

13:42precedented example

13:43for the following chairs

13:44such as the Philippines

13:45must carry on forward

13:47with this kind of leadership

13:48to strengthen

13:49the regional cohesion

13:50and otherwise

13:53the great power,

13:55we will leave

13:56much larger space

13:57for the great power

13:58intervention.

14:00Trump has shown us

14:01that the US

14:02has shifted

14:02this kind of

14:03traditional strategy.

14:04it's a big shift

14:05in the US strategy

14:06in terms of

14:07being more

14:08what we call

14:09Trumpians.

14:10The intervention

14:10was quite

14:11Trumpian.

14:13It's transactional,

14:14immediate and effective

14:15in pushing

14:16both parties

14:19to agree

14:20with what he wants

14:21and that's quite

14:22achieved what

14:23he's called

14:23the peace,

14:24the labor peace

14:25for himself

14:26but at the same time

14:27the leverage

14:28that the US

14:28is trying to achieve

14:29as you can see

14:30critical minerals agreement

14:31Cambodia

14:32eliminated

14:33100%

14:34tariff

14:34on the US

14:35industrial

14:36and agricultural

14:37goods

14:37this kind of

14:39what he called

14:40effective

14:41and immediate

14:42result

14:42that he's trying

14:43to see.

14:44So again

14:45we must carry

14:46on again

14:47the spirit

14:48that we must

14:49take ownership

14:50of our own

14:51house

14:51and strengthen

14:53the regional

14:53mechanisms

14:54that the regional

14:56cohesion

14:56and centrality

14:57is there.

14:58Alina,

14:59so picking up

15:00on some

15:00of the things

15:01that Chai

15:01mentioned here

15:02about this

15:03big shift

15:03in the US

15:04strategy

15:05and this

15:06Trumpian

15:06strategy

15:07specifically

15:08this approach

15:08and he

15:09mentioned a little

15:10bit about

15:10the trade

15:11deals

15:12being renewed

15:13between Cambodia

15:13and Malaysia

15:14as well

15:15not big wins

15:16for countries

15:17for countries

15:17in Southeast

15:17Asia

15:18how do you

15:19see this

15:19what message

15:20is Washington

15:21trying to

15:22convey here?

15:23I think

15:24Washington's

15:24message is

15:25basically

15:26that you

15:26know

15:26America

15:28is not

15:29very far

15:29away

15:30you know

15:31and not

15:31to put

15:32all your

15:32eggs

15:33in one

15:33basket

15:34that is

15:34to lean

15:34towards

15:35China

15:35I think

15:36basically

15:36that's

15:36the message

15:37that you

15:37want

15:37the second

15:38message

15:38is that

15:39if you

15:41intend

15:41to

15:42move away

15:43and align

15:44yourself

15:44with

15:45China

15:48or others

15:49then we

15:50have means

15:51of

15:51reining

15:52you in

15:53through

15:54this

15:54territory

15:55etc

15:56so I

15:57think

15:57the message

15:57is one

15:58was on

15:59the one

15:59hand

15:59putting out

16:01an olive

16:01branch

16:01saying that

16:02you know

16:02there's

16:03something

16:03that we

16:03can work

16:04together

16:04but on

16:05the other

16:05hand

16:05if you

16:06choose

16:06not to

16:06take

16:06that

16:07branch

16:07or the

16:07hand

16:08that I'm

16:08putting

16:08out

16:08the option

16:10is that

16:10you know

16:11we'll play

16:11in a difficult

16:12game

16:12I think

16:13that's

16:13basically

16:14what

16:14actually

16:14went

16:15here

16:15but

16:15I think

16:16the message

16:16was well

16:16understood

16:17by the

16:17ASEAN

16:18countries

16:18that you

16:19know

16:19because

16:19we have

16:20never

16:21seen

16:21America

16:22as

16:22a problem

16:23you know

16:23we have

16:23always seen

16:24America

16:24as a

16:24partner

16:25and therefore

16:25I think

16:26that explains

16:27why we

16:29decided

16:29or three

16:30of these

16:30countries

16:30decided

16:30to go

16:31with the

16:31trade

16:31deals

16:31I did

16:34throw the

16:35same

16:35question

16:35to

16:35Alina

16:36earlier

16:36so maybe

16:37you like

16:37some of

16:37your

16:38thoughts

16:38on this

16:38as well

16:39do you

16:39think

16:39Trump

16:40is being

16:41strategic

16:41here

16:41what

16:42is

16:42Washington

16:42trying

16:43to

16:43convey

16:43well

16:46we're

16:46recording

16:46this

16:46at a

16:47time

16:47when

16:47President

16:48Xi

16:48and

16:48President

16:49Trump

16:49are

16:49meeting

16:49at this

16:50moment

16:50and

16:50both

16:51of

16:51them

16:51have

16:52expressed

16:52great

16:53friendship

16:53and respect

16:54for each

16:55other

16:55so if

16:56we

16:56did

16:56think

16:56that

16:57there

16:58is

16:58intense

16:59competition

16:59between

17:00the two

17:01superpowers

17:01that intensity

17:03might be

17:03tempered

17:04after this

17:05meeting

17:05what I

17:07do

17:07think

17:08that

17:09Washington

17:09is trying

17:10to convey

17:10is that

17:12Trump

17:14is basically

17:15pro-America

17:17and his

17:18message

17:19to the

17:19region

17:19is

17:20you

17:21are

17:21with

17:22us

17:22or

17:22against

17:23us

17:23essentially

17:23that's

17:24what

17:24it

17:24is

17:24because

17:25he's

17:26honestly

17:27not

17:27really

17:27interested

17:28in whether

17:28this

17:29deal

17:29or

17:30these

17:30deals

17:30ultimately

17:31benefit

17:32ASEAN

17:33countries

17:33or not

17:34and we

17:35had

17:36some

17:37intimation

17:38of that

17:38when he

17:39was in

17:39Japan

17:40and he

17:40talked

17:40about

17:41how

17:41the

17:42world

17:42now

17:42respects

17:43him

17:43the

17:44world

17:44now

17:44respects

17:44the

17:45US

17:45because

17:45he

17:46has

17:46been

17:46extending

17:47this

17:48muscular

17:48approach

17:49to

17:49foreign

17:49policy

17:50and

17:50trade

17:50policy

17:51to

17:51the

17:51rest

17:51of

17:52the

17:52world

17:52and

17:53if

17:53you

17:53look

17:53at

17:53the

17:53language

17:54of

17:55the

17:55text

17:56of

17:56the

17:56joint

17:56statements

17:57between

17:58the

17:58US

17:58and

17:58Cambodia

17:59between

17:59the

17:59US

17:59and

18:00Malaysia

18:00I

18:01think

18:01you

18:01will

18:01see

18:02that

18:02really

18:02the

18:03deals

18:04ultimately

18:05serve

18:05Washington

18:06in the

18:07long run

18:07which

18:08to

18:09Trump's

18:09credit

18:09is what

18:10he

18:10promised

18:11the

18:11United

18:11States

18:12the

18:12test

18:13for

18:13us

18:13is

18:13whether

18:13we

18:14can

18:14carve

18:14out

18:14that

18:15strategic

18:15space

18:16in the

18:16long

18:16term

18:16given

18:17the

18:17deals

18:17that

18:18we

18:18signed

18:18of

18:18course

18:18we

18:19are

18:19still

18:19waiting

18:19for

18:19the

18:20exact

18:20text

18:20from

18:21Thailand

18:21and

18:21Vietnam

18:22but

18:23I

18:23think

18:24what

18:24we

18:24have

18:24seen

18:24so far

18:25from

18:25the

18:25Cambodian

18:26and

18:27Malaysian

18:27deals

18:28is

18:28that

18:28we

18:28might

18:28be

18:29in

18:29for

18:29a

18:29bit

18:29of

18:30a

18:30roller

18:30coaster

18:30ride

18:31over

18:31the

18:32next

18:32few

18:32years

18:32On

18:34that

18:35point

18:35Chai

18:36optically

18:37what

18:38has

18:38the

18:38reception

18:38been

18:39like

18:39among

18:39the

18:39Cambodian

18:40public

18:40now

18:41that

18:41the

18:42text

18:42of

18:43the

18:44trade

18:44deals

18:44are

18:45out

18:45and

18:46that

18:46it

18:46appears

18:47to

18:47be

18:48quite

18:48asymmetrical

18:49between

18:50what

18:50the

18:50US

18:50gets

18:51and

18:51what

18:51Cambodia

18:51gets

18:52because

18:52in

18:52Malaysia

18:52the

18:53reception

18:53has

18:53been

18:54a

18:55little

18:55bit

18:55of

18:56a

18:57shock

18:57given

18:58what

18:59Trump

18:59or

19:00what

19:00his

19:00treatment

19:01has

19:01been

19:01like

19:01so

19:01far

19:02throughout

19:02the

19:02summit

19:03does

19:04this

19:04come

19:04as

19:04a

19:04surprise

19:05to

19:05the

19:05Cambodian

19:06public

19:06Chai

19:07I

19:08think

19:08the

19:09political

19:09context

19:09might

19:10be

19:10different

19:11from

19:11other

19:11Southeast

19:12Asian

19:12countries

19:12given

19:13the

19:13ruling

19:14parties

19:15in

19:16Cambodia

19:16enjoy

19:18overwhelmingly

19:18majority

19:19support

19:19in the

19:20country

19:20and

19:21people

19:22focus

19:22on

19:23how

19:23to

19:23resolve

19:24peacefully

19:25the

19:26border

19:26conflict

19:26with

19:26Thailand

19:27and

19:28they

19:28are

19:28quite

19:28it's

19:29a bit

19:30of

19:31how

19:31to

19:31say

19:31there's

19:32a

19:32sentiment

19:33in

19:33the

19:33country

19:34on

19:35the

19:35day

19:36that

19:36the

19:37peace

19:37accord

19:37was

19:38signed

19:38with

19:38Donald

19:38Trump

19:39peasants

19:39in

19:41the

19:41capital

19:41city

19:42there

19:42was

19:42a

19:42rally

19:43celebrating

19:45with

19:45Donald

19:45Trump

19:46portraits

19:46the

19:47US

19:47flags

19:47and

19:48all

19:48of

19:48that

19:48I

19:50think

19:50this

19:51is

19:51I

19:52think

19:52if

19:53we

19:53from

19:53academic

19:54viewpoint

19:54we

19:55also

19:55understand

19:56the

19:57US

19:57intention

19:58and

19:59the

20:00rationale

20:00of

20:01Trump

20:01pushing

20:02for

20:02this

20:02kind

20:02of

20:03deal

20:03Nobel

20:05Peace

20:05Prize

20:05for

20:06example

20:06economic

20:07leverage

20:07for

20:08example

20:08but

20:10we

20:10need

20:10to

20:10give

20:10credit

20:11to

20:12this

20:12kind

20:13of

20:13pushing

20:13pressure

20:14that

20:14Thailand

20:14agreed

20:15to

20:16end

20:16the

20:16fighting

20:17but

20:18at

20:18the

20:18same

20:18time

20:19I

20:19think

20:20it

20:20serves

20:20somehow

20:21foreign

20:21policy

20:22in the

20:22long run

20:22in terms

20:23of

20:23trying

20:24to be

20:25more

20:26friendly

20:26to

20:26the

20:26United

20:26States

20:27clearing

20:28the

20:28reputation

20:29that

20:29Cambodia

20:30has

20:30been

20:30a

20:30client

20:31state

20:31of

20:31China

20:32as

20:32most

20:32of

20:32the

20:33Western

20:33media

20:33claims

20:34in

20:34the

20:34past

20:35decades

20:35you

20:35know

20:36even

20:36former

20:36Prime

20:37Minister

20:37foreign

20:37policy

20:38doctrine

20:38and

20:38the

20:38current

20:39Prime

20:39Minister

20:39trying

20:40to

20:40clear

20:41that

20:41kind

20:41of

20:41reputation

20:42and

20:42showing

20:42that

20:43we

20:43are

20:43trying

20:43to

20:44be

20:44good

20:44with

20:44both

20:44great

20:45powers

20:45as

20:46you

20:46can

20:46see

20:47the

20:47biggest

20:48result

20:48I

20:48would

20:48say

20:49the

20:50suspension

20:51of

20:51the

20:51Cambodia

20:52US

20:52annual

20:52military

20:53exercise

20:54is

20:54resumed

20:54from

20:55next

20:55year

20:56onwards

20:56and

20:57also

20:57increasing

20:58the

20:58quota

20:58for

20:58military

20:59training

20:59for

20:59Cambodia

21:00to

21:00go

21:00to

21:00the

21:01West

21:01Point

21:01Academy

21:01and

21:03also

21:03working

21:04on

21:04tariff

21:05and

21:05trade

21:05deals

21:05and

21:06stuff

21:06so

21:06I

21:06think

21:07this

21:07is

21:07also

21:07a

21:07sign

21:08to

21:08have

21:09a

21:09sort

21:09of

21:10more

21:10balanced

21:11foreign

21:11policy

21:11in the

21:12long

21:12run

21:12the

21:15balancing

21:15act

21:15between

21:16US

21:16and

21:16China

21:16from

21:17Cambodia

21:17point

21:18of

21:18view

21:18your

21:21thoughts

21:22on

21:22this

21:22the

21:23trade

21:23pact

21:24that's

21:24been

21:24renewed

21:24between

21:25Malaysia

21:25and

21:26Cambodia

21:26of

21:26course

21:26that's

21:27gotten

21:27a lot

21:27of

21:28traction

21:28among

21:29the

21:29Malaysian

21:29public

21:30among

21:30the

21:30media

21:30and

21:31members

21:32of

21:32parliament

21:32as

21:32well

21:32of

21:33course

21:33as

21:33we're

21:33seeing

21:34in

21:35the

21:35parliamentary

21:35sessions

21:36these

21:36days

21:36do

21:37you

21:37think

21:37that

21:38it's

21:38asymmetrical

21:40do

21:40you

21:41think

21:41that

21:41this

21:41is

21:41a

21:41major

21:42loss

21:42or

21:42should

21:42it

21:43have

21:43been

21:43expected

21:44well

21:46a

21:48simple

21:48reading

21:48of

21:48the

21:49text

21:49would

21:50suggest

21:50that

21:50it

21:50is

21:50asymmetrical

21:51like

21:51Alina

21:52mentioned

21:52just

21:52now

21:53but

21:53I

21:54think

21:54the

21:54problem

21:54is

21:54because

21:55our

21:56ministry

21:56of

21:56trade

21:59its

21:59own

21:59version

22:00of

22:00this

22:00entire

22:01agreement

22:01like

22:02the

22:02White

22:03House

22:03has

22:03I

22:04think

22:04we

22:04need

22:04a

22:04similar

22:05version

22:05coming

22:06out

22:06from

22:06Mitty

22:06and

22:07the

22:07longer

22:08it

22:08takes

22:09to

22:09bring

22:10this

22:10out

22:10the

22:11longer

22:11this

22:12kind

22:12of

22:12perceptions

22:12persist

22:13I

22:14know

22:14for

22:14example

22:15within

22:15the

22:15text

22:15at

22:16least

22:16one

22:16or

22:16two

22:16areas

22:17are

22:17not

22:17exactly

22:18as

22:18it

22:18seems

22:19out

22:19there

22:19let's

22:20say

22:20for

22:20example

22:21when

22:22we

22:22talk

22:22about

22:22I

22:23think

22:24there's

22:24a

22:24sub

22:29pharmaceuticals

22:31medical

22:31devices

22:31and

22:32things

22:32like

22:32that

22:32so

22:32it

22:33says

22:34for

22:34example

22:34that

22:35we

22:36should

22:36accept

22:36American

22:37FDA

22:37standards

22:38to

22:39allow

22:39medical

22:39devices

22:40importation

22:41into

22:41Malaysia

22:42without

22:42having to

22:44impose

22:44our own

22:44standards

22:45upon

22:45them

22:45it

22:46looks

22:46like

22:46there's

22:47a

22:47curtailment

22:47of our

22:48sovereignty

22:48there

22:49but

22:49in

22:50reality

22:50Malaysia

22:51has

22:51already

22:52been

22:52using

22:52the

22:52FDA

22:53standards

22:53for

22:54many

22:54years

22:54now

22:55in

22:55terms

22:55of

22:55medical

22:55devices

22:56so

22:56there's

22:56nothing

22:57new

22:57so

22:58I

22:58suspect

22:58there

22:59other

22:59clauses

23:00in

23:00the

23:00entire

23:00agreement

23:01where

23:02we

23:02have

23:02already

23:02been

23:03dealing

23:03with

23:03America

23:04already

23:04there's

23:04nothing

23:04new

23:05there

23:05it's

23:06just

23:06that

23:06it

23:06has

23:06been

23:06now

23:07put

23:07into

23:07the

23:07text

23:08but

23:08the

23:09problem

23:09is

23:09that

23:09when

23:10meeting

23:10does

23:10not

23:10come

23:11out

23:11clearly

23:12explaining

23:13all

23:13this

23:13then

23:14there's

23:14a lot

23:15of

23:15room

23:15for

23:16speculation

23:17accusation

23:19that we

23:19have sold

23:19out

23:19and all

23:20the

23:20things

23:20so

23:21I

23:21think

23:22I

23:22would

23:22reserve

23:22my

23:23comments

23:23at

23:23this

23:23point

23:23I

23:24mean

23:24if

23:25some

23:25people

23:26say

23:26it's

23:26asymmetric

23:26we

23:27will

23:27have

23:27to

23:27let

23:27it

23:27be

23:28that

23:28way

23:28until

23:29we

23:29see

23:29the

23:29final

23:30text

23:30coming

23:30from

23:31meeting

23:31I

23:32mean

23:33I

23:33think

23:33the

23:33enforcement

23:34aspect

23:34of

23:34all

23:35of

23:35this

23:35is

23:35still

23:35unclear

23:36anyway

23:36even

23:37domestically

23:37in the

23:37United

23:38States

23:38there's

23:39been

23:39a bit

23:39of a

23:39back

23:40and

23:40forth

23:40on

23:41how

23:41to

23:41enforce

23:42some

23:42of

23:42what

23:43Trump

23:43is

23:44stating

23:44in

23:45these

23:45trade

23:45deals

23:45but

23:46Elena

23:47just

23:47going

23:47back

23:47to

23:48I

23:49guess

23:49in

23:49the

23:50framework

23:51of

23:51ASEAN

23:51do

23:51you

23:51think

23:52that

23:52this

23:52then

23:53perhaps

23:55signals

23:56to

23:56ASEAN

23:56that

23:57they

23:57should

23:57review

23:58or

23:58somewhat

23:58have

23:59more

24:00negotiations

24:01together

24:02as a

24:03united

24:03front

24:04in

24:04facing

24:05these

24:05trade

24:05deals

24:06and

24:06I

24:07guess

24:07in a

24:08way

24:08to

24:08avoid

24:08bilateral

24:09fragmentation

24:09because

24:10we're

24:10seeing

24:10different

24:11texts

24:12different

24:12deals

24:12come out

24:13for

24:13different

24:13ASEAN

24:14member

24:14states

24:15I

24:16think

24:16ASEAN

24:17collectively

24:17and as

24:18individual

24:18member

24:18states

24:19are

24:19caught

24:19between

24:20a

24:20rock

24:20and

24:20a

24:20hard

24:21place

24:21on

24:21the

24:22one

24:22hand

24:22you

24:22have

24:22this

24:23urgency

24:23of

24:23trying

24:24to

24:24mitigate

24:25some

24:25of

24:26Trump's

24:26tariff

24:27policies

24:27on

24:28the

24:28other

24:28hand

24:29there

24:29has

24:30to

24:30be

24:30some

24:31form

24:31of

24:31strategic

24:32thinking

24:32in

24:32terms

24:32of

24:33diversification

24:33of

24:33markets

24:34which

24:35is

24:35to

24:35ASEAN's

24:35credit

24:36what

24:36it's

24:36trying

24:36to

24:37do

24:37or

24:37what

24:37at

24:37least

24:37the

24:37Malaysian

24:38chair

24:38has

24:38been

24:38trying

24:39to

24:39push

24:47ASEAN

24:47member

24:48states

24:48themselves

24:48but

24:49the

24:49fact

24:49that

24:50there

24:50is

24:50some

24:50of

24:50this

24:51diversification

24:51going

24:52on

24:52again

24:52both

24:53individually

24:53and

24:54collectively

24:54I

24:55think

24:56speaks

24:56quite

24:57a bit

24:57to

24:57ASEAN's

24:58strategic

24:59longer

24:59term

25:00thinking

25:00where

25:02it

25:03faces

25:03difficulties

25:04now

25:04is

25:05trying

25:05to

25:06mitigate

25:07again

25:08some

25:08of the

25:09immediate

25:09and

25:10shorter

25:10term

25:11effects

25:11of

25:12the

25:12Trump

25:12administration's

25:13policies

25:14and so

25:14what we

25:15have

25:15now

25:15are

25:16these

25:16terribly

25:17bitter

25:18low

25:18hanging

25:19fruit

25:19that

25:20we

25:20have

25:20to

25:21pick

25:21and

25:22consume

25:22over

25:23the

25:23next

25:24few

25:24years

25:25at

25:25least

25:25before

25:26we

25:26can

25:26try

25:26to

25:27get

25:27to

25:27some

25:27of

25:28the

25:28sweeter

25:28higher

25:29hanging

25:29fruit

25:30in

25:30the

25:30future

25:31which

25:31may

25:31not

25:31be

25:32part

25:32of

25:32the

25:32US

25:33tree

25:33I

25:33apologize

25:33for

25:34my

25:34terrible

25:34analogy

25:35but

25:35I

25:36think

25:36this

25:36is

25:36where

25:36we

25:36are

25:36at

25:37now

25:37that

25:38we

25:38have

25:39what

25:39we

25:40have

25:40and

25:41we

25:41need

25:42to

25:42have

25:43better

25:43cards

25:44in

25:47the

25:48future

25:48so

25:49we

25:49make

25:49do

25:52with

25:52what

25:52we

25:52have

25:52now

25:53but

25:54over

25:54the

25:55next

25:55few

25:55years

25:55I

25:55hope

25:55that

25:56ASEAN

25:56under

25:56the

25:57chairmanship

25:57of

25:57Philippines

25:58and

25:58Singapore

25:58and

25:59Thailand

25:59later

26:00on

26:00will

26:01continue

26:01the

26:01strategy

26:02of

26:02diversification

26:03because

26:03we

26:04are

26:04no

26:04longer

26:04operating

26:05in

26:06the

26:06order

26:06in

26:06which

26:07we

26:07have

26:07become

26:08accustomed

26:08to

26:17you

26:27pointed

26:27out

26:27a few

26:28crucial

26:29points

26:29there

26:29about

26:29diversification

26:30and

26:31ASEAN

26:31being

26:32in this

26:33place

26:33between

26:33rock

26:35and hard

26:36place

26:36as you

26:36said

26:36but

26:37Chai

26:38you

26:38also

26:38talked

26:39about

26:39this

26:39need

26:39to

26:40balance

26:40between

26:41the

26:41great

26:41powers

26:42and

26:42just

26:43picking

26:43up

26:43on

26:44what

26:44Malaysia's

26:45foreign

26:45minister

26:45say

26:46ASEAN

26:49space

26:49for

26:49neutrality

26:50is

26:50shrinking

26:51Chai

26:52do

26:52you

26:52see

26:52this

26:53happening

26:53I

26:55agree

26:56but

26:57at

26:57the

26:57same

26:58time

26:58the

26:59language

27:00of

27:00haqjing

27:00that

27:01we

27:01have

27:01been

27:01using

27:01for

27:02so

27:02many

27:02times

27:03to

27:03describe

27:03our

27:04choice

27:04is

27:04shrinking

27:05so

27:07it's

27:08a

27:08difficult

27:08time

27:09for

27:10us

27:10in

27:10Cambodia

27:11foreign

27:11policy

27:11doctrine

27:12we

27:12use

27:12the

27:12term

27:13permanent

27:13neutrality

27:14and

27:15that

27:15is

27:15very

27:16difficult

27:17time

27:17to

27:18continue

27:19we

27:19have

27:20not

27:20abandoned

27:20it

27:20but

27:21it's

27:22become

27:22more

27:22challenging

27:23to

27:24execute

27:25this

27:25kind

27:26of

27:26permanent

27:26neutrality

27:27we

27:27need

27:28to

27:28hedge

27:28continue

27:28to

27:29hedge

27:29at

27:29some

27:30points

27:30where

27:31we

27:31need

27:31to

27:31and

27:31where

27:32we

27:32think

27:33that

27:33certain

27:33national

27:34interests

27:34cannot

27:34be

27:35compromised

27:35it

27:36actually

27:36reminds

27:37me

27:37of

27:38the

27:38history

27:38during

27:39the

27:40Cold

27:40War

27:40period

27:40the

27:41Cold

27:41War

27:41patterns

27:42where

27:42the

27:42United

27:42States

27:43using

27:43economic

27:44leverage

27:44to

27:44force

27:45the

27:45alignment

27:45between

27:48mainland

27:49Southeast

27:49Asia

27:49and

27:50maritime

27:50Southeast

27:50Asia

27:51basically

27:51the

27:52communist

27:53bloc

27:53in

27:53mainland

27:53Southeast

27:54Asia

27:54and

27:55capitalist

27:55bloc

27:56in

27:56maritime

27:57Southeast

27:57Asia

27:57but

27:58this

27:58time

27:59it's

27:59similar

27:59approach

28:00of

28:00this

28:01kind

28:01of

28:01Cold

28:01War

28:01pattern

28:02using

28:02economic

28:02leverage

28:03to

28:03force

28:03alignment

28:04but

28:04without

28:04ideological

28:06framework

28:06or long

28:07term

28:07commitment

28:08that

28:08once

28:08accompanies

28:09such

28:10pressure

28:10comparing

28:11to

28:11the

28:11past

28:11time

28:12that

28:13is why

28:14earlier

28:14I said

28:15it's a

28:15reminder

28:16to

28:16consider

28:16and I

28:17think

28:17that's

28:18a lesson

28:18teach

28:19Cambodia

28:19very well

28:20because

28:20we once

28:21be a

28:22very

28:22you know

28:23we were

28:24starting

28:24civil war

28:25out of

28:25being a

28:26proxy

28:26of the

28:26Cold War

28:27it should

28:28continue to

28:29remind the

28:29current leaders

28:30of this

28:30kind of

28:31betrayals

28:32or the

28:32force

28:32alignment

28:33the

28:33consequence

28:34of

28:34small

28:34state

28:34where we

28:35were forced

28:36to choose

28:36so this

28:38is a new

28:39landscape

28:39that we are

28:40trying to

28:40adapt to

28:41and that

28:41is why

28:42the

28:42diversification

28:43economic

28:45diversification

28:46remain a

28:47key pillars

28:47in both

28:48past

28:49administration

28:49and the

28:49current

28:50prime minister

28:50administration

28:51embedded in

28:53economic

28:53diplomacy

28:54and also

28:55the national

28:56development

28:56strategy

28:57where we

28:58cannot rely

28:59on a

28:59certain

29:00powers

29:01basically

29:02this is a

29:02common language

29:03that are

29:03used in

29:04among

29:04Southeast Asian

29:05states

29:05but to

29:06what extent

29:07that we

29:07can achieve

29:07fully this

29:08is quite

29:09a challenging

29:10time for

29:11us to

29:11see

29:12how

29:13this will

29:14be fully

29:15implemented

29:15and

29:17achieve

29:18a certain

29:18diversification

29:19Dato' Ilanggu

29:21do you

29:22agree that

29:22the space

29:23for hedging

29:23is shrinking

29:25and that

29:26ASEAN will

29:26soon be

29:26forced to

29:27pick sides

29:28or do you

29:29think that's

29:30perhaps

29:30antithetical

29:32to ASEAN's

29:33principles

29:33yeah

29:35I'm sorry

29:36I have to

29:36disagree with

29:36the minister

29:37I don't think

29:38the shrinking

29:38at all

29:38in fact

29:39I think

29:40the minister

29:41probably

29:41reflecting

29:42the state

29:43of affairs

29:43before the

29:44summit

29:45took place

29:45I think

29:46post

29:47summit

29:482025

29:48I don't

29:49think that's

29:50anymore

29:50true

29:50the space

29:51in fact

29:52is intact

29:53in fact

29:53I think

29:54it actually

29:54can be

29:55expanded

29:55you see

29:56if ASEAN

29:58considers itself

29:59as an

30:00entity

30:00without agency

30:01then you'll

30:02have this

30:02kind of

30:02problems

30:03that you

30:03can say

30:04things are

30:04shrinking

30:05you've

30:05got no

30:06room for

30:06maneuver

30:07etc

30:07but ASEAN

30:08has agency

30:09we have

30:10proven in

30:11here that

30:11ASEAN

30:11has agency

30:12ASEAN

30:13is a

30:13capable

30:13regional

30:14manager

30:14of affairs

30:15and I

30:15think this

30:16has been

30:16accepted by

30:17America as

30:17well and

30:18by China

30:18too

30:19so now

30:19this is

30:20the time

30:21for ASEAN

30:21to exert

30:22this agency

30:23and deal

30:24with both

30:24these superpowers

30:25we should

30:27explore new

30:27things

30:28perhaps a

30:28new triangular

30:29format

30:30dealing with

30:32America and

30:32China

30:33ASEAN

30:34ASEAN

30:34so far

30:34has only

30:35dealt with

30:35American

30:35China on

30:36a bilateral

30:36basis

30:37ASEAN

30:37and

30:37America

30:38ASEAN

30:38and China

30:39we don't

30:40have a

30:41triangular

30:41relationship

30:42where ASEAN

30:43China and

30:43America

30:43three of us

30:44sit and

30:45talk

30:46that I

30:47think

30:47should be

30:48done

30:48and that

30:49would be

30:49one way

30:49to preserve

30:50if not

30:51expand the

30:51space

30:52so the

30:53short of it

30:53I disagree

30:54with the

30:54minister

30:55but perhaps

30:55he was

30:56describing

30:56something

30:56earlier

30:57I think

30:57the space

30:58is now

30:58better than

30:59ever

30:59Alina

31:01do you

31:02agree

31:02how far

31:03can

31:03ASEAN's

31:04agency

31:04go

31:04I think

31:06two things

31:06can be

31:07true at

31:07once

31:08and if

31:09we look

31:09at the

31:10different

31:10sectors

31:11we'll see

31:12that some

31:12of this

31:13pattern

31:13of

31:14coercion

31:15has in

31:16fact as

31:16Chai

31:17mentioned

31:17been there

31:18for many

31:19many

31:19decades

31:19the concern

31:21that I

31:21have is

31:22that we

31:22may not

31:23be aware

31:23that these

31:24patterns

31:24are continuing

31:25through the

31:26trajectory of

31:27time until

31:27today and

31:27into the

31:28future

31:28and we

31:29may find

31:29ourselves

31:29sleepwalking

31:30into

31:31geopolitical

31:32alignment

31:33inadvertently

31:34I'll give

31:35you an

31:35example

31:35some of

31:36the talk

31:36around

31:36digital

31:37infrastructure

31:37that we're

31:38seeing

31:38even the

31:39text of

31:40the trade

31:40deal

31:40between

31:41Malaysia

31:41and

31:41United

31:42States

31:42seems

31:43to indicate

31:44that

31:44Malaysia

31:45is going

31:45to bind

31:45itself

31:46to the

31:46United

31:46States

31:47and the

31:48United

31:48States

31:48strategic

31:49interests

31:50this

31:50actually

31:51has

31:52been

31:52a

31:53risk

31:54for

31:54at least

31:55two

31:55decades

31:56in this

31:56region

31:56where

31:57when

31:57subsea

31:58data

31:58cables

31:59were

31:59constructed

31:59there

32:00was

32:00a

32:00lot

32:00of

32:01arm

32:02twisting

32:03behind

32:03the

32:03scenes

32:04by

32:04Washington

32:05to

32:06get

32:06countries

32:07in

32:07Southeast

32:08Asia

32:08to align

32:09to its

32:09strategic

32:10interests

32:10we're

32:11seeing

32:11echoes

32:12of this

32:12play out

32:13with

32:13some

32:14of these

32:14digital

32:14agreements

32:15that are

32:15now

32:16being

32:16formed

32:17and

32:18and so

32:18this

32:18is

32:18what

32:18I

32:19meant

32:19by

32:19if

32:19we're

32:20not

32:20careful

32:20we may

32:21find

32:21ourselves

32:22sleepwalking

32:23into

32:23these

32:24alignments

32:24for the

32:25next

32:2520

32:25years

32:26because

32:26we're

32:26talking

32:27about

32:27infrastructure

32:27here

32:28that

32:29said

32:29I do

32:29agree

32:30also

32:30with

32:30Dato

32:31Ilango

32:31that

32:31this

32:32then

32:32gives

32:32us

32:33the

32:33opportunity

32:33to

32:34look

32:34for

32:34different

32:35mechanisms

32:35look

32:36for

32:36different

32:36frameworks

32:37to

32:38enlarge

32:39that

32:39strategic

32:39space

32:40and

32:40agency

32:40that

32:41we

32:41have

32:41we

32:41just

32:41need

32:42to

32:42be

32:42creative

32:42about

32:43it

32:43and

32:43I

32:43think

32:44that

32:44start

32:44has

32:45already

32:45been

32:45set

32:46by

32:46the

32:46Malaysian

32:47chair

32:47this

32:47year

32:48it's

32:48a

32:49matter

32:49of

32:49whether

32:49the

32:50next

32:50few

32:50chairs

32:51are

32:51going

32:51to

32:51be

32:51willing

32:52to

32:52continue

32:52to

32:53preserve

32:53that

32:53space

32:53by

32:54looking

32:54elsewhere

32:55not

32:55just

32:55to

32:56the

32:56US

32:56and

32:56China

32:57as

32:57we

32:57traditionally

32:57have

32:57done

32:58but

32:58perhaps

32:59going

32:59back

33:00to

33:00the

33:00golden

33:01age

33:01of

33:01South-South

33:02cooperation

33:02that

33:03never

33:03really

33:03took

33:03off

33:03but

33:04maybe

33:04it's

33:04time

33:05to

33:05revisit

33:05that

33:06with

33:06partnerships

33:07with

33:08the

33:08African

33:08continent

33:09as well

33:09as

33:09in

33:10Latin

33:10America

33:10Alina

33:12you

33:12pointed

33:12out

33:13something

33:13important

33:14there

33:14about

33:15how

33:15not

33:16just

33:16Malaysia's

33:16chairmanship

33:17but I

33:17think

33:17this

33:18effort

33:18in

33:19trying

33:19to

33:19develop

33:20new

33:23askew

33:27with

33:27Philippines

33:28as

33:29chairman

33:29of

33:30ASEAN

33:30in

33:302026

33:31do you

33:32think

33:32the

33:32alignment

33:33will

33:33perhaps

33:33be

33:33a bit

33:34more

33:34clear

33:34I

33:35don't

33:36want

33:36to

33:36prejudice

33:36the

33:36Philippines

33:37chairmanship

33:37of course

33:38but I

33:38do

33:38think

33:39even

33:39Manila

33:39recognises

33:40the

33:40need

33:41to

33:41be

33:41a

33:41little

33:41more

33:42creative

33:42in

33:42its

33:43geopolitical

33:44engagement

33:45with

33:46the

33:46rest

33:46of

33:46the

33:46world

33:47that

33:47said

33:48this

33:48is

33:48one

33:49of

33:49the

33:49constraints

33:50of

33:50ASEAN

33:50rotating

33:51chairmanship

33:51that

33:52every

33:52year

33:52there

33:53will

33:53be

33:53a

33:53different

33:53set

33:54of

33:54priorities

33:54and

33:55urgencies

33:55that

33:56each

33:56chair

33:56will

33:57take

33:57upon

33:57itself

33:58and

33:58so

33:59I

33:59can

33:59imagine

33:59already

34:00from

34:01President

34:01Marcos'

34:02speech

34:02in KL

34:03that

34:04Manila's

34:05priority

34:06will be

34:07its

34:07maritime

34:08domain

34:08and

34:09the

34:09South

34:09China

34:09Sea

34:10and

34:10so

34:10we'll

34:11probably

34:11expect

34:11that

34:12out

34:12of

34:12the

34:12Philippines

34:12chair

34:13next

34:13year

34:14I

34:14do

34:14hope

34:15that

34:15the

34:15other

34:15ASEAN

34:16member

34:16states

34:16will

34:17continue

34:17pressing

34:17for

34:18this

34:18broader

34:18view

34:19of

34:19how

34:19ASEAN

34:20engages

34:20strategically

34:21with

34:21the

34:21rest

34:22of

34:22the

34:22world

34:22Chai

34:24what

34:24is

34:24your

34:25take

34:25on

34:25this

34:25what

34:26are

34:26some

34:26of

34:26the

34:26challenges

34:27that

34:27we

34:27can

34:27expect

34:27as

34:28Philippines

34:29tries

34:30to

34:30navigate

34:30another

34:31challenging

34:32another

34:32divisive

34:33era

34:33as

34:34chair

34:34of

34:35ASEAN

34:35next

34:35year

34:35I

34:37agree

34:38with

34:38Alina

34:38and

34:39all

34:39that

34:39the

34:41President's

34:42speech

34:42is

34:42not

34:43something

34:44surprising

34:44I

34:45think

34:45perhaps

34:46we

34:46can

34:46anticipate

34:47a

34:47more

34:48assertive

34:48security

34:49issues

34:49that

34:50the

34:50chair

34:50is

34:51trying

34:51to

34:51present

34:51for

34:52the

34:52next

34:52chairmanship

34:53as

34:54we

34:55can

34:55see

34:55there

34:55certain

34:56priorities

34:56of

34:57each

34:57chairman

34:57is

34:58each

34:58year

34:58trying

34:59to

34:59present

35:00in

35:00the

35:00agenda

35:00regarding

35:02what

35:02is

35:03national

35:03interest

35:04at

35:04stake

35:04and

35:04must

35:05carry

35:05on

35:05to

35:06the

35:06table

35:06to

35:06discuss

35:07especially

35:08the

35:08issue

35:08of

35:09the

35:09South

35:09China

35:09Sea

35:09and

35:10therefore

35:11it's

35:12the

35:12divergent

35:12of

35:13interest

35:13must

35:13also

35:14taken

35:14into

35:16account

35:17regarding

35:17the

35:19challenges

35:19on the

35:20table

35:21for

35:21example

35:21the

35:22peace

35:23accord

35:24spirit

35:25must

35:25continue

35:26to be

35:26carried

35:26on

35:27after

35:27signing

35:28in

35:28Kuala Lumpur

35:29and

35:29like I

35:30said

35:30in the

35:31first place

35:31that it

35:32will require

35:32a longer

35:33process

35:33to observe

35:34the

35:34implementation

35:35of the

35:36peace

35:36agreement

35:36and

35:37that is

35:37why

35:38from

35:39Cambodia

35:40leader

35:40point

35:41of

35:41view

35:41they

35:41requested

35:43Anwar

35:44to be

35:44the

35:44mediator

35:45continue

35:45to be

35:45a

35:46mediator

35:46even

35:47next

35:47year

35:47under

35:48the

35:48Philippines

35:48chairmanship

35:49and

35:50that

35:50means

35:51there

35:52will

35:52be

35:53a

35:53diverging

35:53of

35:53interest

35:54among

35:54ASEAN

35:55members

35:55itself

35:56and

35:57that

35:57can

35:57be

35:57one

35:58of

35:58the

35:58challenges

35:58and

35:59also

35:59given

36:00the

36:01new

36:01landscape

36:02that we

36:02just

36:02talked

36:02about

36:03the

36:03geopolitical

36:03alignment

36:04will

36:05require

36:06the

36:06regional

36:07cohesion

36:07under

36:08the

36:08Philippines

36:08chairmanship

36:09that is

36:10why

36:10I

36:10think

36:10it

36:11needs

36:11to

36:11carry

36:12on

36:12the

36:13continued

36:13spirit

36:14that we

36:14just

36:14see

36:15in

36:15Kuala Lumpur

36:16regarding

36:17the

36:17leadership

36:18the

36:18ownership

36:19of

36:19ASEAN's

36:20ability

36:21to carry

36:22on

36:22this

36:22kind

36:22of

36:23convening

36:23power

36:23but

36:24at

36:24the

36:24same

36:24time

36:25promoting

36:25the

36:26regional

36:26cohesion

36:26at

36:27this

36:27challenging

36:28time

36:28Dato'i

36:31Lango

36:31you

36:31started

36:31off

36:32with

36:32a

36:33lot

36:33of

36:33optimism

36:33about

36:34the

36:34summit

36:34and

36:35to

36:36some

36:36extent

36:37Malaysia's

36:38chairmanship

36:38of

36:39ASEAN

36:39and

36:40the

36:41way

36:41it's

36:41navigated

36:42a lot

36:42of

36:42challenges

36:42this

36:43year

36:43what

36:43do

36:43you

36:43think

36:44are

36:44some

36:44of

36:44the

36:44lessons

36:45learned

36:45that

36:46Philippines

36:46should

36:47take

36:47a

36:47note

36:47out

36:48of

36:48Malaysia's

36:48book

36:48well

36:50I

36:51think

36:51there

36:52are

36:52good

36:52things

36:53and

36:53bad

36:53things

36:53as

36:53well

36:54you

36:54know

36:55that

36:56is

36:56number

36:56one

36:56ASEAN

36:58summitry

36:59process

36:59is

36:59very

37:00much

37:00a

37:01leader

37:02led

37:02kind

37:02of

37:02thing

37:02and

37:03this

37:03is

37:03what

37:03Elena

37:04alluded

37:04to

37:04just

37:05now

37:05there

37:06will

37:06be

37:06uneven

37:07approaches

37:08as

37:09the

37:09leaders

37:09take

37:10over

37:10the

37:11chairmanship

37:11so

37:12the

37:13next

37:13leader

37:13obviously

37:14is

37:14going to

37:14be

37:14a

37:14different

37:16kind

37:16of

37:16approach

37:16but

37:17I

37:17think

37:18the

37:18lesson

37:18learned

37:19here

37:19number

37:19one

37:19we

37:21tend

37:22to

37:22look

37:22at

37:22it

37:23somehow

37:23imaginary

37:24view

37:26that

37:26ASEAN

37:27is

37:27some

37:27kind

37:27of

37:27united

37:28bloc

37:28that

37:29we

37:29are

37:29uniform

37:29that

37:29we

37:30are

37:30all

37:30alike

37:30that

37:31is

37:31absolutely

37:31not

37:32true

37:32ASEAN

37:33has

37:33a

37:34lot

37:34of

37:34dividing

37:35factors

37:35inside

37:36the

37:36organization

37:37with

37:38the

37:38assumption

37:40of

37:40the

37:40admission

37:41of

37:41the

37:41previous

37:42four

37:43members

37:43ASEAN

37:44had

37:44already

37:44been

37:45a

37:45two

37:45speed

37:46kind

37:46of

37:46ASEAN

37:46there

37:47was

37:47the

37:47older

37:48members

37:48there

37:48was

37:48one

37:49group

37:49of

37:49countries

37:50and

37:50then

37:51the

37:51newer

37:51members

37:51they

37:52were

37:52somewhat

37:52different

37:53and

37:53this

37:54gives

37:55rise

37:55to

37:55thinking

37:56there

37:56are

37:56two

37:57South

37:57Asia

37:57there

37:58was

37:58an

37:58article

37:58by

37:59Sudhana

37:59Patton

37:59in

38:00foreign

38:00affairs

38:01recently

38:02talking

38:02that

38:02there

38:03are

38:03two

38:03ASEAN

38:03aligned

38:05to

38:05America

38:06and

38:07there

38:07is

38:07another

38:07one

38:08aligned

38:08to

38:08China

38:09that's

38:09actually

38:09a

38:10false

38:10depiction

38:11but

38:11that

38:12false

38:12depiction

38:12comes

38:13from

38:13the

38:13fact

38:13that

38:14ASEAN

38:14has

38:14not

38:15actually

38:15completely

38:16grappled

38:17with

38:17the

38:17fact

38:17that

38:17these

38:18divisions

38:18must

38:19be

38:19bridged

38:20I

38:21remember

38:21when I

38:22was

38:22in

38:22policy

38:23planning

38:23in

38:23Malaysia

38:24in

38:24the

38:24early

38:242000s

38:26we

38:26were

38:27very

38:27much

38:27focused

38:27on

38:28this

38:28initiative

38:28on

38:28ASEAN

38:29integration

38:29we

38:31wanted

38:31to

38:31bring

38:31down

38:32the

38:32gap

38:32between

38:33the

38:33newer

38:33and

38:33older

38:33members

38:34so

38:34that

38:34there

38:35be

38:35more

38:35unity

38:35among

38:35ourselves

38:36today

38:37we

38:37have

38:37admitted

38:37Timor

38:38Leste

38:38and

38:38Timor

38:39Leste

38:39admission

38:39also

38:40brings

38:41in

38:41the

38:41danger

38:41that

38:41ASEAN

38:42might

38:42just

38:42at

38:42three

38:42speeds

38:43and

38:43this

38:45ultimately

38:46is not

38:46going to

38:47be

38:47good

38:47and

38:48I

38:48think

38:48this

38:48is

38:48the

38:48future

38:49the

38:49lesson

38:49that

38:50has

38:50to

38:51be

38:51learned

38:51that

38:52we

38:52need

38:53to

38:53bring

38:53that

38:53gap

38:54within

38:54the

38:55region

38:55closer

38:56which

38:56means

38:57to

38:57say

38:57ASEAN

38:58members

38:58will

38:58have

38:58to

38:58work

38:59together

38:59among

39:00themselves

39:00to

39:00find

39:01ways

39:02of

39:02how

39:02to

39:02do

39:03that

39:03perhaps

39:04help

39:04each

39:04other

39:04but

39:05also

39:06rope

39:06in

39:06the

39:06other

39:06countries

39:11destabilizing

39:14competition

39:15between

39:15America

39:15and

39:16China

39:16why

39:17don't

39:17we

39:17get

39:17all

39:17these

39:18powers

39:18now

39:18to

39:18contribute

39:19to

39:19bridging

39:20the

39:20gap

39:21so

39:21that

39:21the

39:21entire

39:22region

39:22can

39:22be

39:22more

39:23uniform

39:23and

39:24be

39:24less

39:24of a

39:25problem

39:25for

39:25everybody

39:25else

39:26so

39:26I

39:26think

39:26that

39:26is

39:26the

39:27kind

39:27of

39:27thing

39:27that

39:27we

39:27can

39:27do

39:28I

39:28mean

39:28it's

39:28positive

39:28thinking

39:29but

39:29it's

39:30something

39:30that

39:30we

39:30must

39:31be

39:31aware

39:32of

39:32and

39:32take

39:33note

39:33of

39:33and

39:34by

39:34the

39:34before

39:34I

39:35say

39:36end

39:37up

39:37here

39:37I

39:38absolutely

39:39love

39:39Elena's

39:40description

39:40that

39:40we

39:40might

39:41be

39:41slip

39:41walking

39:41into

39:42alignment

39:43I

39:43love

39:44that

39:44phrase

39:44and

39:45I

39:45have

39:46used

39:46that

39:46before

39:46but

39:46thank

39:47you

39:47Elena

39:47for

39:47reminding

39:48me

39:48I

39:50would

39:51much

39:51like

39:52to

39:52see

39:52a

39:52little

39:52bit

39:53of

39:53debate

39:53but

39:53some

39:54agreement

39:54and

39:55some

39:55praise

39:55is

39:56also

39:56good

39:56to

39:56see

39:57quite

39:57rare

39:58but

39:58that's

39:58always

39:59nice

39:59that

40:00does

40:00bring

40:00me

40:00to

40:01my

40:01next

40:01point

40:02speaking

40:03about

40:03this

40:03notion

40:04of

40:04imagined

40:05unity

40:06as

40:06you

40:07pointed

40:07out

40:07I

40:08want

40:09to

40:09shift

40:09gears

40:09a

40:10little

40:10bit

40:10because

40:10that

40:11does

40:11bring

40:11me

40:11to

40:12one

40:12of

40:12my

40:12final

40:12points

40:13about

40:13ASEAN's

40:1411th

40:15member

40:15of

40:15course

40:16a

40:16very

40:16emotional

40:17and

40:17very

40:17historic

40:18memory

40:19created

40:20at the

40:2147th

40:21ASEAN

40:22summit

40:22but

40:23just

40:24to

40:24shift

40:24gears

40:24a

40:24little

40:25bit

40:25just

40:25talking

40:25about

40:26we

40:26have

40:27not

40:27mentioned

40:28Myanmar

40:28here

40:29we

40:30were

40:30talking

40:30about

40:30conflict

40:31resolution

40:32but

40:32Myanmar

40:33is

40:33still

40:34missing

40:34from

40:35the

40:35picture

40:35here

40:35and

40:36I

40:37guess

40:38just

40:39to

40:39point

40:39out

40:39what

40:39Timor-Leste

40:40has

40:40been

40:40doing

40:40before

40:44or

40:44to

40:45becoming

40:45ASEAN's

40:46official

40:4711th

40:47member

40:47it

40:48has

40:48been

40:48a

40:48bit

40:48vocal

40:49in

40:50speaking

40:50out

40:50about

40:51Myanmar

40:51and

40:52now

40:52that

40:52they're

40:53officially

40:53a

40:53member

40:54do

40:54you

40:54think

40:54that

40:55this

40:55changes

40:56things

40:56a

40:56little

40:56bit

40:57Elena

40:57your

40:57thoughts

40:57on

40:58this

40:58if

40:58you've

40:59been

40:59following

41:00what's

41:00happening

41:00with

41:01Myanmar

41:01they did

41:02come

41:02out

41:02with

41:02a

41:03rather

41:03strongly

41:04worded

41:05statement

41:05on

41:06what

41:06they

41:06expect

41:07from

41:07Myanmar

41:07from

41:08the

41:09junta

41:09and

41:10with

41:10the

41:10elections

41:11that

41:11they've

41:11proposed

41:11at the

41:12end

41:12of this

41:12year

41:12do

41:13do

41:13you

41:13think

41:13this

41:14imagined

41:15unity

41:15is

41:16going

41:16to

41:17still

41:17pose

41:17a

41:18challenge

41:18in

41:18how

41:18the

41:19bloc

41:20tries

41:20to

41:20manage

41:21the

41:21Myanmar

41:21conflict

41:22so

41:23I

41:24think

41:24the

41:24latest

41:24news

41:25is

41:25that

41:25the

41:26Myanmar

41:26junta

41:27has

41:27announced

41:27elections

41:28to

41:28take

41:28place

41:28in

41:29January

41:29next

41:29year

41:29and

41:31what

41:31we've

41:31heard

41:31from

41:31the

41:32ASEAN

41:32leaders

41:32from

41:33this

41:33recent

41:33summit

41:34is

41:34that

41:35ASEAN

41:35will

41:35continue

41:35to

41:36hold

41:36to

41:36the

41:37five

41:37point

41:37consensus

41:38framework

41:39I

41:40actually

41:41think

41:41that

41:42that

41:42is

41:42so

41:42far

41:43the

41:43best

41:43diplomatic

41:44framework

41:44on

41:45which

41:45to

41:45proceed

41:46despite

41:46its

41:46shortcomings

41:47and

41:48there

41:48is

41:48wiggle

41:48room

41:49within

41:49the

41:50five

41:50point

41:50consensus

41:51framework

41:51to

41:52call

41:52for

41:53stronger

41:53action

41:54and

41:54to

41:55call

41:55for

41:55more

41:55creative

41:56ways

41:56of

41:56engaging

41:57with

41:57all

41:57the

41:57stakeholders

41:58in

41:58Myanmar

41:59I

42:00actually

42:00have

42:01also

42:01been

42:01on

42:01record

42:02to

42:02call

42:02for

42:03the

42:03suspension

42:03of

42:04Myanmar

42:04until

42:05things

42:07are

42:07somewhat

42:08normal

42:09again

42:09we've

42:11seen

42:11a bit

42:12of

42:12an

42:12erosion

42:12of

42:13that

42:13principle

42:14where

42:15the

42:15military

42:15has

42:16been

42:16invited

42:17to

42:17some

42:17meetings

42:18within

42:18ASEAN

42:19and I

42:19know

42:19that

42:19has

42:20caused

42:20a bit

42:20of

42:20disappointment

42:21among

42:21certain

42:22members

42:22within

42:23ASEAN

42:24and so

42:24this

42:25gets

42:25to your

42:25point

42:26Naila

42:26about

42:27ASEAN

42:27unity

42:28how

42:29there

42:29are

42:29different

42:29approaches

42:30of

42:31different

42:31countries

42:31within

42:32ASEAN

42:32to

42:32dealing

42:33with

42:33Myanmar

42:34and

42:34the

42:35military

42:35and

42:36power

42:36and

42:37it

42:37is

42:37this

42:38separate

42:39set

42:39of

42:40priorities

42:41that

42:41are

42:42reflected

42:43through

42:44these

42:44different

42:44approaches

42:45that I

42:46think

42:46is going

42:46to

42:47continue

42:47to be

42:48a thorn

42:48in the

42:48side

42:49of

42:49actually

42:50moving

42:50the needle

42:50on

42:51Myanmar

42:52question

42:52that

42:53said

42:53I

42:53don't

42:53want

42:54to

42:54be

42:54uncharitable

42:54to

42:55ASEAN

42:55there

42:55is

42:56no

42:56other

42:56organization

42:57or

42:57country

42:58that

42:58has

42:58been

42:58able

42:59to

42:59actually

43:00change

43:01things

43:01on the

43:01ground

43:02in

43:02Myanmar

43:02and

43:03ultimately

43:03that

43:03is

43:04for

43:04the

43:04Myanmar

43:04people

43:05to

43:05do

43:05themselves

43:06what

43:07ASEAN

43:07is

43:07there

43:08is

43:08to

43:08assist

43:09where

43:09it

43:09can

43:10unfortunately

43:11there

43:11are

43:11some

43:12expectations

43:13that

43:14may not

43:14be

43:14quite

43:14realistic

43:15of

43:15ASEAN

43:16and

43:16I

43:16fear

43:17that

43:17this

43:17will

43:17continue

43:18to

43:18erode

43:19some

43:19of

43:19that

43:20unity

43:20within

43:21ASEAN

43:22towards

43:22ASEAN

43:23not just

43:23amongst

43:23member states

43:24but also

43:25on the

43:25ground

43:25in

43:26different

43:26countries

43:26in

43:27ASEAN

43:27where it

43:28matters

43:28most

43:28if

43:29ASEAN

43:29is to

43:29be

43:30people

43:30oriented

43:30and

43:31people

43:31centred

43:31as

43:32it

43:32says

43:33in

43:33almost

43:33all

43:34its

43:34official

43:34documents

43:35then

43:36ASEAN

43:36has to

43:36matter

43:37to

43:37the

43:37people

43:38on

43:38the

43:38ground

43:38Datoq

43:41Lango

43:41your

43:41thoughts

43:41on

43:41this

43:42what

43:42challenge

43:42might

43:43the

43:43Myanmar

43:43conflict

43:44pose

43:44to

43:44ASEAN

43:45in

43:45the

43:45next

43:45year

43:46next

43:47year

43:47you

43:48mean

43:48well

43:49dealing

43:50with

43:51the

43:51I

43:51mean

43:51as

43:52Elena

43:52mentioned

43:52they

43:53have

43:53announced

43:53an

43:53election

43:54ASEAN

43:55has

43:55been

43:55on

43:55record

43:55saying

43:56that

43:56it

43:56does

43:57not

43:58welcome

43:58the

43:58elections

43:59earlier

43:59now

44:00I'm

44:01hearing

44:01different

44:01kind

44:02of

44:02statements

44:03saying

44:04that

44:04ASEAN

44:04might

44:04consider

44:05sending

44:05observers

44:06I

44:07don't

44:07think

44:07that

44:08is

44:08the

44:08right

44:08thing

44:08to

44:08do

44:09but

44:09to

44:11take

44:11the

44:11conversation

44:12a little

44:12bit

44:12broader

44:12I

44:13think

44:13ASEAN

44:15the

44:16Myanmar

44:17file

44:17is

44:18something

44:18that

44:18ASEAN

44:18will

44:19not

44:19be

44:19able

44:19to

44:20manage

44:20the

44:21way

44:21it

44:21is

44:22doing

44:22it

44:22today

44:22that

44:23is

44:23the

44:23model

44:24of

44:24rotating

44:25envoys

44:26every

44:27year

44:27new

44:28chairman

44:29etc

44:29that's

44:30not

44:30going

44:30to

44:30work

44:30we

44:31need

44:31some

44:31sort

44:31of

44:32sub

44:32specialization

44:33within

44:33ASEAN

44:33which

44:34is

44:34why

44:34I

44:34have

44:34been

44:35on

44:35record

44:35calling

44:35for

44:36a

44:36permanent

44:36ASEAN

44:37envoy

44:38on

44:38Myanmar

44:41creating

44:42a

44:42different

44:42kind

44:42of

44:42mechanism

44:43but

44:43that

44:44mechanism

44:44has

44:44real

44:45promise

44:45because

44:46it

44:46means

44:46that

44:47now

44:47that

44:47envoy

44:48is

44:48not

44:48bound

44:49by

44:49the

44:49chair

44:49he

44:50can

44:50stay

44:51on

44:51in

44:51place

44:51for

44:52a

44:52number

44:52of

44:52years

44:52and

44:53that

44:53could

44:54be

44:54created

44:54as

44:55a

44:55special

44:55office

44:56either

44:56Jakarta

44:57or

44:58maybe

44:58in

44:58Bangkok

44:58closer

44:59to

44:59the

44:59ground

44:59manned

45:00by

45:00someone

45:01who's

45:01head

45:01of

45:02the

45:02chair

45:02assisted

45:03by

45:03not

45:04just

45:04ASEAN

45:04nationals

45:05but

45:05because

45:05this

45:11is

45:12actually

45:12an

45:12issue

45:13that

45:13involves

45:14other

45:14countries

45:14as well

45:14there are

45:15places

45:15outside

45:16of

45:16ASEAN

45:17also

45:17involved

45:17and

45:18there

45:18are

45:18experts

45:19who

45:19reside

45:20outside

45:21of

45:21ASEAN

45:21so

45:22I

45:22think

45:22this

45:23office

45:23if

45:24it's

45:24created

45:24and

45:25constituted

45:25should

45:26be

45:26able

45:27to

45:27draw

45:27in

45:27resources

45:28from

45:28elsewhere

45:29in

45:29terms

45:30of

45:30expertise

45:30but

45:31also

45:31be

45:31able

45:32to

45:32be

45:32creative

45:32in

45:33terms

45:33of

45:33engaging

45:33other

45:34partners

45:34that

45:35it

45:35cannot

45:36do

45:36right

45:37now

45:37under

45:38the

45:38current

45:38model

45:38operating

45:39under

45:40the

45:40ASEAN

45:40chair

45:40because

45:41as

45:41you

45:42all

45:42know

45:42the

45:43ASEAN

45:43chair

45:43operates

45:44under

45:44a set

45:45of

45:45restrictions

45:45we have

45:46non-interferers

45:47several other

45:48conditions

45:49attached

45:50to the

45:50way

45:50we can

45:51do

45:51things

45:51but

45:52the

45:52chair

45:52on

45:52his

45:52own

45:53special

45:53envoy

45:54for

45:54Myanmar

45:54can

45:55do

45:55all

45:55of

45:56these

45:56things

45:56and

45:57will

45:59be

45:59freer

45:59to

45:59explore

46:00different

46:00options

46:00we

46:01can

46:01also

46:01rope

46:02in

46:02the

46:02envoys

46:03of

46:03the

46:03UN

46:03of

46:04EU

46:05that

46:06would

46:06also

46:07impose

46:07pressure

46:08UNTA

46:09in

46:10Yangon

46:10that

46:11they

46:12have

46:12to

46:12take

46:12things

46:12seriously

46:13as

46:13it

46:13stands

46:14right

46:14now

46:14there's

46:15very

46:15little

46:16compulsion

46:16on

46:16them

46:16because

46:17they

46:17know

46:17that

46:17every

46:17year

46:17somebody

46:18new

46:18will

46:18come

46:18for

46:19example

46:20I

46:20don't

46:21think

46:22the

46:22same

46:22intensity

46:22on

46:23Myanmar

46:23will be

46:23felt

46:23in

46:24Manila

46:24so

46:25the

46:26short

46:26of

46:26it

46:26I

46:26think

46:27we

46:27need

46:27a

46:27new

46:28approach

46:28the

46:29old

46:29approach

46:29will

46:30get

46:30back

46:30to

46:31the

46:31same

46:31answer

46:32which

46:33is

46:33a

46:34non-solution

46:34you

46:36mentioned

46:36a

46:36little

46:36bit

46:36about

46:37the

46:37Myanmar

46:37elections

46:38and

46:38that

46:38you

46:38rather

46:39disagree

46:39with

46:40it

46:40but

46:40what

46:40do

46:41you

46:41foresee

46:41would

46:41happen

46:42should

46:42Myanmar

46:42proceed

46:43with

46:44the

46:44elections

46:44in

46:44January

46:45and

46:45do

46:45you

46:46think

46:46ASEAN

46:46should

46:47send

46:47in

46:47some

46:48observers

46:49I

46:49think

46:49you

46:49mentioned

46:50that

46:50you

46:50don't

46:50agree

46:51with

46:51that

46:51yeah

46:52I

46:53think

46:53I

46:54feel

46:55that

46:55it's

46:56almost

46:56a

46:56done

46:56deal

46:57Myanmar

46:57is

46:57going

46:58to

46:58go

46:58ahead

46:58with

46:58the

46:58elections

46:59ASEAN

47:04at

47:05the

47:05least

47:06I

47:06think

47:06ASEAN

47:07should

47:07resist

47:07and

47:08not

47:08send

47:08peacekeepers

47:09but

47:10I

47:10think

47:10ASEAN

47:11should

47:11also

47:11send

47:12the

47:12message

47:12right

47:12now

47:12like

47:13Alina

47:13said

47:13I

47:14too

47:14agree

47:14with

47:14the

47:15idea

47:16that

47:16suspension

47:17is

47:17in

47:17order

47:18by

47:18the

47:19way

47:19when

47:19I

47:19drafted

47:20the

47:20rules

47:21for

47:21the

47:21ASEAN

47:21charter

47:21in

47:222005

47:22the

47:23original

47:24draft

47:24that

47:25I

47:25worked

47:25on

47:25had

47:26provision

47:27for

47:27suspension

47:27and

47:28we

47:28were

47:28talking

47:28about

47:29Myanmar

47:29at

47:29the

47:29time

47:29but

47:30subsequently

47:31it was

47:31taken

47:32out

47:32by

47:32the

47:32leaders

47:32when

47:34they

47:34looked

47:35at

47:35it

47:35but

47:35I

47:35think

47:36that

47:36provision

47:36is

47:37important

47:37we

47:38are

47:38not

47:38getting

47:38rid

47:38of

47:38Myanmar

47:39but

47:40Myanmar

47:40has

47:40to

47:40be

47:41told

47:41or

47:41informed

47:42that

47:42there

47:43are

47:43costs

47:45for

47:46if

47:46they

47:46were

47:47to

47:47continue

47:47this

47:47course

47:47of

47:48action

47:48we

47:49have

47:50to

47:50understand

47:50right

47:51now

47:51ASEAN

47:52membership

47:53is a

47:53valuable

47:54thing

47:54for

47:54Myanmar

47:54we

47:56have

47:56to

47:56agree

47:56if

47:57it

47:57wasn't

47:57valuable

47:58Myanmar

47:58would

47:58have

47:58easily

47:59left

47:59the

47:59organization

48:00a long

48:00time

48:00ago

48:00so

48:02it

48:03has

48:03certain

48:04value

48:04because

48:05it

48:05confers

48:06certain

48:07legitimacy

48:07on

48:08Myanmar

48:08so

48:09ASEAN

48:09if

48:10it

48:10was

48:10able

48:10to

48:10say

48:10look

48:11if

48:11you

48:11were

48:11to

48:12go

48:12ahead

48:12with

48:12this

48:12you

48:13are

48:13going

48:13to

48:13be

48:13suspended

48:14that

48:15would

48:15bring

48:16some

48:16serious

48:17consideration

48:18in

48:18Yangon

48:19but

48:20I

48:20think

48:20the

48:20time

48:21is

48:21already

48:21very

48:21short

48:21we

48:22are

48:22talking

48:22about

48:22two

48:23months

48:23time

48:24but

48:24I

48:25am

48:25not

48:25sure

48:25whether

48:26that

48:26is

48:26feasible

48:26but

48:27it's

48:28a

48:28challenge

48:28Now

48:29we

48:29are

48:30coming

48:30towards

48:30the

48:30end

48:30of

48:31our

48:31discussion

48:31and

48:31we've

48:32covered

48:32quite a lot

48:33of ground

48:33we've

48:33talked

48:33about

48:34ASEAN's

48:35attempt

48:35and

48:35ability

48:36to

48:36handle

48:37issues

48:38in

48:38its

48:38own

48:38backyard

48:39as

48:39well

48:39as

48:39beyond

48:40Alina

48:40just

48:41some

48:41of

48:41your

48:41thoughts

48:41on

48:42ASEAN

48:43gaining

48:44more

48:44prominence

48:44on

48:44the

48:45global

48:45stage

48:45and

48:46as

48:47frameworks

48:47of

48:47multilateralism

48:48are

48:49now

48:49facing

48:49issues

48:49of

48:50deficit

48:51of

48:52trust

48:55how

48:55important

48:56do

48:56you

48:56think

48:56is

48:57it

48:57for

48:57ASEAN

48:58to

48:58maintain

49:00its

49:00prominence

49:01or to

49:01stay

49:01relevant

49:02in

49:02this

49:02age

49:03of

49:03multilateralism

49:05not

49:06having

49:07as much

49:07popularity

49:08as

49:08in

49:09the

49:09early

49:092000s

49:10or

49:1090s

49:11ASEAN's

49:13first

49:13constituency

49:13should

49:14be

49:14to

49:15its

49:15people

49:15if

49:16its

49:17pitch

49:17again

49:17is

49:18to

49:18the

49:18people

49:19first

49:19and

49:19foremost

49:19people

49:20oriented

49:20people

49:21centred

49:21then

49:22it

49:23should

49:23serve

49:24the

49:25ASEAN

49:25people

49:26ultimately

49:26well

49:27whether

49:29or not

49:30we

49:30are

49:30popular

49:31amongst

49:31other

49:32powers

49:32is

49:33secondary

49:33should

49:34be

49:34secondary

49:34now

49:36that

49:37is

49:37the

49:37main

49:37challenge

49:38for

49:38ASEAN

49:39moving

49:39forward

49:39it

49:40has

49:40been

49:40the

49:40main

49:41challenge

49:41has

49:42been

49:42the

49:42subject

49:42of

49:43constant

49:43hand

49:43wringing

49:44within

49:44ASEAN

49:45for

49:45a number

49:46of

49:46decades

49:47now

49:47and

49:48we

49:48still

49:48haven't

49:48cracked

49:48that

49:49nut

49:49yet

49:49because

49:50of

49:51how

49:52we

49:52have

49:52had

49:52the

49:53privilege

49:53of

49:53dealing

49:54with

49:54topics

49:55on

49:55a

49:56sectoral

49:57basis

49:57so

49:57we

49:57have

49:57had

49:58the

49:58luxury

49:58of

49:59siloing

49:59the

50:00economic

50:00issues

50:01from

50:02the

50:02political

50:02security

50:03issues

50:03from

50:04the

50:04sociocultural

50:05issues

50:05that is

50:06the

50:06operating

50:07framework

50:08of

50:08ASEAN

50:08itself

50:09there

50:10are

50:10some

50:10cross

50:11pillar

50:11channels

50:11that

50:12have

50:12been

50:12built

50:12over

50:12the

50:13years

50:13but

50:14this

50:14has

50:14been

50:14inadequate

50:14and

50:15it's

50:15going

50:15to

50:15prove

50:16even

50:16more

50:16inadequate

50:16as

50:17the

50:17line

50:18between

50:18particularly

50:19the

50:19economic

50:19and

50:20political

50:20security

50:20pillars

50:21grow

50:22fainter

50:23we're

50:23already

50:24seeing

50:24this

50:24now

50:24and

50:25of course

50:25you've

50:26heard

50:26some

50:26rhetoric

50:26to that

50:27effect

50:27from

50:27the

50:27ASEAN

50:28leaders

50:28in KL

50:29recently

50:30now

50:31what we

50:31do

50:31about

50:32it

50:32is

50:32going

50:32to

50:32be

50:33key

50:33so

50:34for

50:34example

50:34if

50:34we're

50:35talking

50:35about

50:35digital

50:36issues

50:36that

50:37cannot

50:37only

50:37be

50:38led

50:38by

50:38just

50:38the

50:39economic

50:39pillar

50:40alone

50:40moving

50:41forward

50:41the

50:42rationale

50:42has

50:43always

50:43been

50:43that

50:44digital

50:44agreements

50:45anything

50:45to do

50:46with

50:46digitalization

50:47will

50:47be

50:48led

50:48by

50:48the

50:48economic

50:49pillar

50:49because

50:50our

50:50approach

50:51in

50:51the

50:51region

50:52is

50:52to

50:53develop

50:53the

50:55capacity

50:56for

50:56economic

50:57growth

50:57through

50:58digitalization

50:59but

51:00digital

51:00applies

51:01across

51:01the

51:01board

51:02it

51:02is

51:02a

51:03dual

51:03edged

51:04technology

51:05and

51:06so

51:06this

51:06is

51:06how

51:06we

51:07should

51:07be

51:07looking

51:07at

51:08these

51:08issues

51:09i.e.

51:10more

51:10comprehensively

51:11in the

51:11past

51:11we used

51:12to have

51:12this

51:12idea

51:13of

51:13comprehensive

51:13security

51:14within

51:14ASEAN

51:14I think

51:15we should

51:15recall

51:16that

51:16for

51:16a

51:17number

51:17of

51:17other

51:17issues

51:18within

51:18ASEAN

51:18moving

51:19forward

51:19Datoi

51:21Ilango

51:21your final

51:22thoughts

51:22do you

51:22agree

51:23to be

51:24more

51:24people

51:25oriented

51:25to put

51:26the

51:26ASEAN

51:27people

51:27first

51:28as its

51:28constituents

51:29this

51:29is

51:29the

51:29way

51:29for

51:30ASEAN

51:30to

51:31stay

51:31relevant

51:32to

51:32perhaps

51:32even

51:33thwart

51:33criticism

51:35that

51:35it's

51:36toothless

51:37oh yes

51:38I mean

51:38in 2005

51:39when we

51:40were chair

51:40we were

51:41the ones

51:41who coined

51:42the

51:42people

51:43centered

51:43ASEAN

51:44that was

51:45simply

51:45because

51:45the

51:46argument

51:46that

51:46I

51:46made

51:46at

51:46that

51:47time

51:47was

51:47that

51:47when

51:48people

51:48do

51:48not

51:48know

51:49when

51:49your

51:49own

51:49citizens

51:50don't

51:50understand

51:50ASEAN

51:51well

51:51enough

51:52that's

51:53why

51:53there's

51:53very little

51:54support

51:54coming

51:55from

51:55inside

51:55we

51:57know

51:57within

51:58the

51:58CLV

51:58countries

51:59Cambodia

52:00and

52:00Laos

52:00have

52:01the

52:01highest

52:01level

52:01of

52:01understanding

52:02about

52:02ASEAN

52:02but

52:03among

52:03one

52:04of

52:04the

52:04countries

52:04which

52:04are

52:04the

52:04lowest

52:05understanding

52:05about

52:05ASEAN

52:06unfortunately

52:06is

52:06Malaysia

52:07it was

52:08surveyed

52:08done

52:08some

52:09years

52:09ago

52:09I'm

52:10not

52:10sure

52:10things

52:10have

52:10changed

52:11you

52:11know

52:11so

52:12we

52:12too

52:12are

52:13at

52:13fault

52:13for

52:14not

52:14educating

52:15our

52:15own

52:15people

52:16so

52:16efforts

52:17like

52:17what

52:17you're

52:17doing

52:17right

52:18now

52:18is

52:18exactly

52:18right

52:19in

52:19the

52:20ballpark

52:20educating

52:21people

52:22about

52:22ASEAN

52:22everyone

52:23should

52:24understand

52:24why

52:24ASEAN

52:25matters

52:25to

52:26them

52:26as

52:26well

52:26I

52:27mean

52:27the

52:28problem

52:28is

52:28that

52:29policymakers

52:30official

52:31ministers

52:31are

52:32very

52:32poor

52:33communicators

52:33they

52:33are

52:34not

52:34able

52:34to

52:34tell

52:34people

52:35what

52:36it

52:36means

52:36to

52:36them

52:36I

52:37mean

52:37when

52:37we

52:37talk

52:38about

52:38centrality

52:39ASEAN

52:40agreement

52:41the

52:42ordinary

52:42machikya

52:43over there

52:44has

52:44got no

52:44clue

52:45what

52:45it

52:45means

52:45to

52:46them

52:46they

52:47need

52:47to

52:47bring

52:47that

52:47language

52:48straight

52:48down

52:49to

52:49the

52:49bottom

52:49so

52:50that

52:50machikya

52:51and

52:52all

52:53these

52:53people

52:53they

52:53can

52:53understand

52:54oh

52:54this

52:54is

52:54why

52:55ASEAN

52:56is

52:56important

52:56to

52:56them

52:57why

52:58it

52:58is

52:58important

52:58for

52:59them

52:59because

52:59they

52:59can

52:59travel

53:00they

53:00can

53:00do

53:00business

53:01they

53:01can

53:01connect

53:02with

53:02people

53:02and

53:03ultimately

53:04peaceful

53:04region

53:05that

53:06is

53:06the

53:06language

53:06we

53:07need

53:07communicators

53:08ASEAN

53:08needs

53:09to

53:09cultivate

53:10communicators

53:10who

53:11can

53:11bring

53:11it

53:11down

53:11to

53:11the

53:12ground

53:12Malaysia

53:13can

53:13lead

53:13the

53:13way

53:14by

53:14doing

53:14it

53:14inside

53:15our

53:15own

53:15country

53:15first

53:16thank

53:17you

53:17so

53:18much

53:18for

53:18your

53:19final

53:19thoughts

53:19then

53:20hopefully

53:20some

53:21of

53:21what

53:21we've

53:21discussed

53:21today

53:22does

53:22reach

53:23out

53:23to

53:23some

53:23of

53:24the

53:24makkiahs

53:24on

53:24the

53:24streets

53:25thank

53:25you

53:25so

53:25much

53:26Dato'

53:26Ilango

53:26Elina

53:27and

53:28of course

53:28Chai

53:28for

53:29joining

53:29us

53:29earlier

53:30that

53:30is

53:30all

53:30on

53:31Dialogue

53:31ASEAN

53:3125

53:32this

53:32month

53:33just

53:34some

53:34of

53:34the

53:34summaries

53:35or

53:35takeaways

53:36of

53:37the

53:3747th

53:38ASEAN

53:38Summit

53:38of course

53:39a lot

53:39to

53:40look at

53:41not just

53:41in the

53:41past

53:42year

53:42but

53:42for

53:42the

53:42next

53:43year

53:43as

53:43Philippines

53:44take over

53:44as

53:45Chair

53:45of

53:45ASEAN

53:46in

53:462026

53:47thank

53:47you

53:47once

53:47again

53:47to

53:47our

53:47panelists

53:48that's

53:48all

53:48on

53:49Dialogue

53:49ASEAN

53:4925

53:50with

53:50me

53:50Naila

53:50we'll

53:50catch

53:51you

53:51another

53:51time

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