- 3 months ago
As Bihar gears up for assembly elections, over 1,250 candidates on Friday filed their nomination papers for the 121 seats which go to polls on November 6.
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00:00I
00:30Namaskar. Hello and welcome.
00:47As we head into this Diwali weekend, we have our special roundtable on the battle for Bihar.
00:54That's right. This is the big election of 2025.
01:01The battle lines have been drawn.
01:03The nominations have finally concluded for the first phase after a bitter tug of war between the leading parties and their allies.
01:12And as always, Bihar is the state to watch out for.
01:16It's a political bellwether state where, as we've seen in the past, the state stands at the crossroads of promise and politics,
01:27of old equations shifting and new contenders emerging.
01:32And the big question remains, who's really ready for the big Bihar fight?
01:38That's going to be the focus of our Bihar roundtable.
01:42Before we get into what promises to be a fascinating discussion,
01:47let me introduce our panel of guests who represent every political viewpoint as well as academics and sophologists.
01:56Joining me on the show, Pradeep Bhandari is the national spokesperson of the Bharatiya Janata Party.
02:03Sujata Paul is the national spokesperson of the Congress.
02:06A.K. Bajpayee is national senior vice president and chief spokesperson, Lokjang Chakti.
02:13Sayyad Akram is national spokesperson, RJD, K.C. Tyagi, senior leader of the Janata Dal United.
02:20Manisha Priyam is going to give us an academic perspective from our home state of Bihar.
02:26And Yashwan Deshmukh is founder, C-Voter.
02:29He'll give us all the numbers as they emerge.
02:32We're going to go one question by question and get reactions from all of you.
02:37I would request you to keep your intervention short so that we can get as many comments as possible.
02:44My first big question on the Bihar roundtable.
02:47Is the NDA better prepared than the opposition Mahagadbandan for the Battle of Bihar?
02:54We've seen in the last few days how the Mahagadbandan has struggled to finally get its alliance together in terms of seat sharing.
03:03The NDA was the first of the mark in announcing its seats.
03:07So is the NDA better prepared than the Mahagadbandan?
03:10Or are both sides starting at the same point at the start of this race?
03:15Let me take that question at the very outset to Sujata Paul, National Spokesperson Congress.
03:22Because Sujata Paul, as we've seen in the last few days, it's been a bit of a struggle.
03:27Eventually the Congress putting up its first list late on Thursday night.
03:3348 names.
03:34And the sense one got is that this was going to the wire.
03:38Lots of phone calls between the Congress leadership and the RJD before your alliance was finally cemented in terms of seat share.
03:47Would you concede that the NDA is better prepared?
03:51Certainly not Rajdeep.
03:53And the reason is very clear that we have been in conversation.
03:58There has been dialogue and it is a democratic alliance where we've been discussing what would be the best for the people and what we can offer best to the people.
04:09And therefore, our list came out well in time.
04:13And of course, the difference was not too much between the NDA list and our list.
04:18So I think it really doesn't matter which came first and which came later.
04:22The fact of the matter is that as far as the BJP...
04:25So why did you need these late night...
04:28No, no, one minute.
04:29If all was so smooth, why every night your meetings were going on till 2 a.m. and 3 a.m.?
04:35Could you have been better prepared?
04:38But discussions is what is required.
04:41And last minute discussions are always very, very important because we are faced with an election machinery in the form of the BJP.
04:49Forget the J.D.U.
04:51Because J.D.U., like Mr. J.P. Nata had already said earlier, is going to be finished after these elections, certainly.
04:56But a party which we face and is in front of us, we know clearly that they will go to any extent.
05:05So if our list comes after that, they are the defenders, right?
05:09So if they have to remove an entire cabinet for a cabinet reshuffle, you can understand where they are coming from and they need to threaten people.
05:18We actually need to give the best to the people because the people of Bihar are looking at us.
05:23But haven't you seen the headlines?
05:25The headlines said that the LJP had managed to have a coup within the NDA in terms of seats.
05:32So if this is the language which is being used for the NDA seat chairing entire, you know, project, then I can understand how difficult it is for them.
05:43For us, it was very clear from the beginning.
05:45But yes, till the last minute, we have discussed and put our minds to it.
05:50Right.
05:53OK, I want to bring in the BJP at this moment, Pradeep Bhandari.
05:56Do you want to respond to what we just heard, that the NDA alliance may have come together faster, but that's because you were able to intimidate your allies into submission.
06:09That is where the power of the center, the power of an Amit Shah comes in.
06:13It's not as if the allies were voluntarily agreeing to the kind of seat sharing you've done in Bihar.
06:19Many of them are still complaining privately that they've got too few seats and there are coups within.
06:25And there is discontent within your alliance may not come to the surface because of a fear factor.
06:35Well, at the outset, Rajdeep ji, let me tell you and you can ask your producers to record this clip.
06:39The NDA will get more vote share and seat share than what it got in 2020.
06:43There is organic unity in the NDA with clear leadership of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chief Minister Nitish Kumar defined.
06:49Whereas, if you look at the Mahagadbandhan, it has not been able to declare a seat sharing formula and under pressure, each individual party of Mahagadbandhan is declaring its individual seats.
06:58In fact, Tejasri Yadav campaigned in Delhi for multiple times to meet Rahul Gandhi and Mr. Kharge and neither Mr. Rahul Gandhi nor Mr. Kharge met him.
07:06When Tejasri filed his nomination from Raghupur, there was nobody from the Congress party present.
07:11In fact, nobody from the Congress party, whether it is Rahul Gandhi or Kharge ji, congratulated Tejasri Yadav.
07:16Mukesh Saini spoke about doctors in Delhi, in Mahagadbandhan curing the diseases in Bihar but he camped in Delhi but till date he has not been declared as the official Deputy Chief Minister candidate from the Mahagadbandhan.
07:29So, at each seat what we are getting from the ground is that RJD is fighting against the Congress, the Congress is fighting against RJD and it is aptly clear there is organic unity in the NDA and it is an alliance which has been going on from the last two decades.
07:40We are a much stronger alliance than what we were in 2020 so with LJP coming on our fold.
07:46So, I am completely confident the Congress can live in its Alice in Wonderland but the truth of the matter is Congress has neither defined its face, neither has defined its leadership.
07:54The Congress party's leaders speak openly against the RJD.
07:57In fact, Mr. Papu Yadav yesterday spoke that we will not compromise the self-respect of the Congress party for the RJD and till now even if there are dissenting voices in the Mahagadbandhan, there is no clear leadership.
08:09If I ask you, Rajdeep, who is the clear leadership of Mahagadbandhan?
08:15Pradeep Bhandari, there are dissenting voices, sir, just a minute, there are dissenting voices also within the NDA or not?
08:23Those who are resorting to Sher or Shairi, the Jitin Ram, Majees, the Upendra, Kushwas, they clearly are disgruntled.
08:30It's not all one big happy family.
08:33Why not accept that?
08:34Instead of telling me what's wrong with the Congress, answer clearly whether your alliance is intact or not.
08:41Even Nitish Kumar at the end of the day, you're saying no one went with, no Congress person went with Tejasvi Yadav to file nomination.
08:49Nitish Kumar does not even speak to the press at the moment.
08:52He does not even address a press conference.
08:54So, it's not as if all is a happy family, surely, within your ranks.
08:59I'll answer that.
09:00Well, Rajdeep, Nitish Kumar Ji is busy addressing the people of Bihar.
09:06That's why he comes to power and the NDA comes to power.
09:09He's not like Tejashtri Yadav who will spend a large amount of his time trying to fix what is the problem inside the Mahagadbandhan.
09:15Well, Rajdeep, you spoke about Sher Shairi.
09:17What are the latest statements of all those leaders?
09:20All those leaders, there is a commonality.
09:21All those leaders accept the leadership of Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chief Minister Nitish Kumar.
09:26Does Papu Yadav accept the leadership of Tejashtri Yadav?
09:28Does Krishna Anuvaroor accept the leadership of Tejashtri Yadav?
09:31Will RJD accept a Congress Party candidate as the Mahagadbandhan face?
09:34No.
09:35So, if you look at the Mahagadbandhan, there is neither clear leadership.
09:38There is no official seat sharing which is defined.
09:41Yes, we are one happy family.
09:42In a family, you will have individuals expressing their opinion.
09:46But at the end of the day, everybody knows that the mukhiya of the family is Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Chief Minister Nitish Kumar.
09:51And that is where the organic unity comes into the picture.
09:57Okay, I've heard from the two national parties.
10:00I want to turn to the state parties.
10:01I want to start with you, Syed Akram, national spokesperson, RJD.
10:05Let's be clear.
10:07Your seat sharing has gone to the wire.
10:11As I said, till 2 a.m. in the morning, meetings being held, phone calls between Congress headquarters, RJD.
10:16Now, this happens, I know, before most elections.
10:19But the way it's happened, it clearly doesn't send out the right signals.
10:24Even an official list of which party will contest, how many seats was unclear.
10:29And there's now the possibility of some friendly fights within your alliance.
10:33Even the left parties had first released a list.
10:36Then they took it back.
10:37Do you concede that you all were not as prepared as you should have been in terms of your internal dynamics?
10:44First of all, I would like to say our alliance and all partners are very, very intact.
11:04But we are perfectly fine.
11:07We are moving smoothly.
11:09There is no confusion.
11:10There is no dispute.
11:11There is no any pressure.
11:13More than 100 candidates have filed a nomination.
11:17What is the problem within Bihar election?
11:24The NDA wants us to respond whatever they want, however they want.
11:31Why?
11:32Why we should go with that tradition?
11:37We'll bring a list of the candidates and we'll decide like that.
11:42No, no, I...
11:43We are not under pressure.
11:45NDA is totally under pressure.
11:46Akram Jeev, all is so well.
11:47If all is so well, why is the Congress not projecting Tejasvi Yadav as a chief minister?
11:53You see, Akram Jeev, all is so well.
11:55Why is Tejasvi Yadav not being projected as the leader?
11:59There has been a lot of internal battles within a battle.
12:02There were three seats in particular which the Congress was insisting upon.
12:06RJD was unwilling to give.
12:08Now, all of this could have been settled surely much earlier.
12:11Rajdeep, this is our totally decentralized democratic exercise.
12:20We are not coming from any head, that kind of command, the commander who is sitting in
12:26Delhi and of NDA commander and will decide, they will decide and we will have to accept.
12:33In our party, in our alliance, very, very democratic procedure is there.
12:38Everybody is willing to contest election.
12:43Our number of candidates who want to contest election is a huge number.
12:49We are not in a deficiency of candidates like NDA.
12:53So, that things is coming out.
12:56Today, our nomination is going on.
12:59Yesterday, our nomination filed, a lot of nomination filed.
13:02So, there is nothing like that.
13:05In NDA, there is a problem.
13:07So, you are saying, okay, you are making a good, you are making a point, you are making
13:13the point that you are not a command and control.
13:16I have taken your point.
13:17Sahil Sahib, I have taken your point.
13:19Let me take that to KC Tiaaghi.
13:20Tiaaghi Ji, you have heard, RJD says, unlike the alliance of the NDA, they are not a command
13:27and control structure.
13:29This is saying, in a way, the BJP high command is dictating to the JDU.
13:34Mithi Shkumar is the head, but Chavi is the leader of Amit Shah Ji and NDA.
13:40How much right is it?
13:41Look at it, even in seed distribution, you have been given this time equal number of seeds.
13:46Always, JDU would get more seeds.
13:48Do you believe that the balance of power has shifted now?
13:55Rajdeep Ji, first of all, I want to ask the Congress of our children to this state
14:03of the government, which I want to ask, when they say that NDA Ji has said that the JDU
14:09will be the end of the year.
14:12The big old party of the government and the government of the government of Rajdeep Sardesai
14:16can do this, to be a sense of the government of the government, which means that the government
14:17will not give an opportunity to say that the commitment of the government of the government
14:18can do that.
14:28A, so I want to ask for a need for the residential party.
14:32The third party of the government of the government is not a big deal.
14:35The third party of the government of Rajdeep Sardesai Ji, is a senior player of the government.
14:37you know that we have two days of J.U. and BJP.
14:40our government is not a good day.
14:42Our government is in 1999,
14:46we have been working with BJP.
14:49We were in the first place, George Farnadis,
14:53and Nityish Kumar and Modi have no more than any kind.
14:58We have seen the seat.
15:00We have seen the seat.
15:02We have seen the seat.
15:04We have seen the seat.
15:06We have seen the seat.
15:08We have seen the seat.
15:09But we have not been involved in the issue of leadership.
15:13Nityish Kumar is an undisputed, unchallenged leader of NDA.
15:17And the same thing as they have said.
15:19They have been told by this.
15:21And so, in the past 20-22 years,
15:27there is no shift in balance of power.
15:32So, Kaysi Tiyagi Ji,
15:35you have said that there is no shift in balance of power.
15:38It is not that Nityish Kumar Ji is a chair,
15:41but he is a chair, like I said, BJP is a chair.
15:44We have seen the seat.
15:45We have seen the seat.
15:47We are in friendly party.
15:50And we have not yet.
15:52I remember that you came in a very senior, Dr. Lohia and Dindal upadha that in the 1906-1967
16:00when a congressman was gone, we had two parties.
16:05We were in the jail, in the party, in the party, in the party.
16:09And then later, Lalo Ji's different from the country, in the 1994-1994,
16:15then the party, then the party, the party, and the party, the people,
16:22foreign
16:52let me
17:17let me get that what you have said to A.K. Bajpayee of the Lok Chan Shakti. Let's get it
17:25very clear, A.K. Bajpayee. Chirag Paswan, does he accept Nitish Kumar's leadership fully? In the
17:31past, in the last election in 2020, for example, Chirag Paswan had spoken out against Nitish Kumar
17:37openly. Even now, from time to time, he has spoken about law and order collapsing in Bihar at times.
17:42So, I want to know from you, is for the Lok Chan Shakti party, Nitish Kumar, your leader
17:48or not?
17:50No, no. How Nitish Kumar can be the leader of my party? My party leader is Chirag Paswan.
17:55We are alliance partner in the NDA.
17:57Of your alliance?
17:58Yes.
17:59Of your alliance?
18:00We know the limitation of alliance. We know the boundaries of alliance. And Chirag Paswan
18:06is much better than the other leaders. Because he is facing the situation since 2014.
18:1219 and 24. So, we are functioning within the boundaries of the alliance partner.
18:21We insisted for the development of the Bihar in 2014 and 1924.
18:24You will function?
18:26Again, repeatedly we are doing it. So, where is the question about accepting the leadership?
18:30So, Nitish Kumar is your leader? You have accepted to fight this election under Nitish Kumar's leadership.
18:38Are we clear on that?
18:39Yes, yes. We are willingly accepted that we are fighting the election under the leadership
18:47of the alliance partner. That is Jantadal Yu and that is Nitish Kumar. There is no difference
18:52on it. And as far as the seat-sharing is concerned, that is well done by within the
18:57Okay.
18:58And on the other side, see what they are doing?
19:01Okay.
19:01At three o'clock, the nomination will expire.
19:04Okay. Got it.
19:05Right now, they have not announced your seat-sharing.
19:09I...
19:09Okay. I've taken your point. Let me therefore turn to two big questions from here, which are
19:17to be answered more by academics and sophologists. My second question, is Bihar going to be a battle
19:23of freebies versus tall promises? That's question number two. And linked to that is question number
19:29three, is Bihar a battle of who wins the Mahila and Yuva vote? Once upon a time,
19:35MY was seen as Muslim and Yadav. Is it now seen as Mahila or women and Yuva or youth?
19:41Manisha Priyam, we've listened to the politicians talking about seat-sharing. That's only one aspect.
19:47Now the campaign begins. Is this campaign about the various promises that are being made?
19:51You've got Tejasvi promising one job per family, which comes to 2.7 crore jobs. I don't know where
19:59they'll come from, but you've got the NDA, which has put 10,000 rupees in the pockets of women per
20:05family. Now we don't know how that will affect budgets and whether there'll be an audit of those,
20:11of that money. How do you see it? Is this election about changing Bihar or simply providing freebies
20:17at election time, Manisha Priyam? So, Razdeep, kindly permit me to answer the freebie question
20:27first, but do permit me a small comment on the seat-sharing as I end. On the freebies,
20:33as far as the woman vote is concerned, remember, Nitish Kumar did entrench a solid vote block for
20:41himself from amongst the women of the poor and downtrodden families through a slew of measures.
20:47And these were not freebies. These were deep and developmental. These measures included giving
20:54the girl-child the cycles to go to schools. Bihar roads built by Nitish transformed with girl-childs
21:02given school uniforms. And you could see rural areas, the entrenched mindset that was anti-girls
21:10going to school and going for education was transformed by this visual beyond measure. But
21:16that same Bihar, which invested so much, there were reservations for women, etc. Look at the number of
21:23tickets given to women. And as much as I have heard the history of politics through Honorable
21:29Sri K.C. Tyagi ji, both the socialists and the two socialist formations under Karpuri ji,
21:35and now the NDA need to answer whether a Renu Devi as deputy chief minister was simply representational
21:42and not very different from a Rabdi Devi, who was also representational. So women in top leadership
21:48are not allowed up. They are offering 30%, 1-3% seats to women. Don't try to. Ma'am, in the list,
21:56in the list so far, 13%, 1-3% seats to women is what the NDA is offering.
22:03Top leadership does not go to women, number one. Second, about the UR voter, nearly 30% of the
22:16population is youth. And I am sorry to say that despite all the education revolution, 62% of those
22:25who are finishing their schools and about to go to colleges actually have nowhere to go to and resort
22:32to private coaching and tuition. So it is a state where the youth are simply out on the streets.
22:39The real picture is the coaching and the gully and any amount of saying that this is our Neta
22:45and that is our leader. I don't think the issue is that of
22:49our Neta will become equal to no leadership change if we don't answer the youth question. Tejasvi is
22:59offering job but you rightly pointed out from where all these youth in Khansar, Rehman Guru,
23:06all of them are offering the youth saying,
23:08ticket collector and you have to see the gullies to understand. It is a situation where as if lotteries
23:15are being sold. Samrat Ashok, the emperor is reincarnated in the gully as teaching mathematics
23:22for 500 rupees.
23:25Now I want to conclude by saying that the poor stand, the poor youth stand, hang around in the urban gullies
23:31and run from 5 in the morning preparing for bhartis for government jobs. However, what we see is really
23:39a disappointment in terms of what we've seen, the two alliances, the Mahagatmandan even more than the NDA.
23:46Okay.
23:46Look at the fact that forget other things in North Bihar, even in Ghosi where there is a CPIML sitting
23:53MLA, the RJD wants to have its own candidate. What can explain this? So it's not about just Mukesh
24:00Saini and the posturing and the midnight dramas on the side of the JDU, the issues about the JDU
24:08issuing symbols to places where Chirag Paswan is fighting. Now Hanumanji is going to fight
24:14the socialist chehra of the BJP. That's the tamasha that Biharis are about to see. So therefore,
24:20I believe that this election is about highly...
24:23Okay, I've taken your money.
24:25Not even political parties failing to reach the poor. Yeah.
24:34Okay. So you're saying, you know, in a sense, you're seeing a hyper localized election. Everyone
24:38wants to be a NETA. Everyone wants a ticket, which explains the confusion, but you made good points
24:43on Mahila and Yuva and how they seem to be completely in a way they are talked about at election time,
24:49but the representation isn't there. Yashwan Deshmukh, you're the one who's been also talking
24:54about how the Yuva and the Mahila are going to be key. Are you sticking to that? That if there are two
24:59demographics that will decide this Bihar election, it's that 49-50% Mahila vote and it is the Yuva vote.
25:06Bihar has the largest demographic below 25 in the country in terms of voters. Are these the two key
25:13demographics, particularly with all the freebies and promises being made to attract women and youth?
25:19Sometimes I feel like we do a great disservice to Bihar by looking at the Bihar politics only
25:24through the caste and religion prism. You know, while we all know for sure that there are so many
25:29states, even in south, there's much progress and which are south, the southern states of Tamil Nadu,
25:35which are much more caste driven in their politics rather than just being aiming Bihar. You know,
25:40I have been trying to follow at least the emerging blocs which are kind of voting beyond the caste and
25:49religious arithmetics and certainly the new MY combination seems promising in that way for
25:55different reasons maybe. As Manisha, you just said that and I totally agree with every line that
26:00Manisha has said that, you know, female voters' connection with Nitish Kumar is altogether a different
26:08level. And yes, the Sarkari Naukari matters. The Naukari matters. Sarkari Naukari definitely matters a lot.
26:15So, no matter how impractical the promise may be, there would be a traction for youth,
26:23among the youth for that announcement of Tejasui. So, it is going to be the youth and Mayla equation,
26:29no doubt. Yes, the baseline of the Bihar politics will remain into caste. But sometimes,
26:33you know, people say it's all about arithmetic, Rajdeep. Sometimes people say it's all about
26:39chemistry. Largely, Bihar is more about arithmetic. We have seen in the last 15 years more than in that
26:46way. But chemistry plays its own role. Right. You might find it out of sync. But yeah, I mean,
26:52sometimes, okay, let me try to explain it with an F1 racing team. It's not just the car. You need a good
27:00driver, good champion driver. And you need definitely a very good team in the pit stop to
27:06run this thing. Now, everybody knows what is their role in that F1 thing. You know, as far as NDA is
27:14concerned, I considered BJP as the one which has the car, the organization. And Nitish Kumar is the
27:21seasoned F1 driver. They need that driver. They cannot drive the car, Rajdeep on their own, because BJP does
27:28not have the driver. That's the bottom line, you know. And JTU doesn't have the car, BJP doesn't have
27:34the driver. That's it. Now, if they can manage their pit stop staff, otherwise, it's troublesome.
27:41Okay, I want to turn from there, since we are talking about Yuva, to also reflect on my next big
27:50question. And then I'll bring the other parties in. But there is an X factor in Bihar. And that is
27:56Prashant Kishore. Maybe talked about more in the media, some say, than on the ground. That will be
28:01known only by the results. But my fourth question, is Prashant Kishore in any position to break Bihar's
28:07duopoly. Pavan Verma of the Jan Suraj now joins me. Pavan Verma, we were talking just about Yuva,
28:14the fact that the youth vote is becoming more and more important in a state like Bihar with a large
28:19population. Prashant Kishore seems to be attracting youth, but whether they will vote for him, whether
28:24they will look beyond the prism of caste is uncertain. Do you concede that there are those who believe that
28:30this election of Prashant Kishore is only to try and establish the Jan Suraj as a party in Bihar?
28:38It's not about winning Bihar. It's at least establishing some kind of a presence.
28:47Do you agree with that? Or do you believe Bihar is changing more than we believe in television
28:51studios? Thank you, Rajdeep. Three things. First of all, it's conventional logic that a new
29:00alternative must first just find its place and then be in a position to win. The revolution in
29:09communication has changed all that. Secondly, I think that today the majority of Bihar wants change.
29:23And let me say to you further that if there is one state where change is an imperative, which cuts
29:32across the need for it, cuts across caste, religion, and all subsections of the population, it is Bihar.
29:41Jan Suraj reflects the mood for change of another alternative. So far, it did not exist.
29:51It was the same two coalitions with the same faces, the same politicians who have not delivered what Bihar
29:58wanted in the last 30 years, as the statistics show. So that change is reflected in Jan Suraj,
30:07and it is the majority constituency. Thirdly, as far as the young is concerned, you are aware that
30:14demographically, Bihar is one of the youngest states in the country. And there is a huge aspirational
30:23urge which has been frustrated for three decades by the current governments in power.
30:32And Prashant Kishore himself being young, 47, 48, represents their aspirations the best. As regards
30:42caste, your fourth component of your question, you know, it's a stereotype that Bihar is the only state
30:51where caste has become a stranglehold. I don't believe so. If you go to Tamil Nadu,
30:59you'll find caste. If you go to Andhra, it is Kappus versus Redis. If you go to Karnadak,
31:04Vokkalengas versus Lingayas. Every state has its own caste tapestry. Now, to believe that Bihar will
31:13never be able to emancipate itself from its caste nexus is, I believe, a deliberate stereotype
31:22projected by those who feel that Bihar is incapable of change. Whereas the response to Jan Suraj has
31:30shown that Bihar is keen for change and is waiting for the right opportunity. So we believe that this
31:38time, as Prashant Kishore has said, either what you are saying is true and we will get
31:4610, 20 seats, or we will sweep with 150 seats representing that manifest, palpable desire for
31:55change and a fatigue with the old coalitions.
31:58So you're saying either Arshpar or Farshpar, which is what Prashant Kishore says. Let's take that
32:06forward because I want to, for a moment, look at it and redraw my fifth question. Is Bihar ready for
32:11change? Therefore, that's the, you know, Sujata, let's go to the national parties and then come to the
32:15regional parties first. Sujata Paul, is Bihar ready for change is a question that is being asked that
32:22effectively what the alliance that you present is seen by many as old wine in new bottle. Yes,
32:29you've got a Tejasvi other, but he's the son of Lalu Prasad. He comes with the baggage of the RJD.
32:34The Congress itself is seen as organizationally weak. It also carries a lot of baggage from the past.
32:40Do you concede that you don't offer change in the truest sense? When your leader, for example,
32:45in this case, Tejasvi speaks of providing a job per household that will involve 2.7 crore jobs.
32:51The government cannot provide that. There are only 20 lakh jobs in government today.
32:55So you're not providing substantive change. How does the opposition today represent change,
33:02even if there is anti-incumbency against the current government?
33:07Clearly, when we talk about unemployment, we have a clear vision as to how we are going to give jobs.
33:13And we are not only talking about government jobs. If you remember, in the 2024 Lok Sabha manifest,
33:21we had said that private companies will also be told to make sure that they get interns from the youth
33:29to tackle this very huge problem, which is created by the BJP. Now, the fact is that this time it's a
33:37double-engine, but are they going to be able to give jobs to people? No, clearly not. Because there have
33:44been paper leaks. We have seen it. They have not been able to fill the vacant posts in the government.
33:50And we've seen the kind of corruption there is in this government. Because if you look at the
33:56CAG report of 2024, 70,877 crore rupees vanished, simply under the eyes of the very so-called vigilant
34:05Mr. Nitish Kumar. Clearly, he doesn't know what is happening with him. There were 2,60,000 construction
34:11workers who did not get the funds which were supposed to go to them. Then five out of 11 state universities,
34:19there have been areas of salaries. And there are so many issues which have come to the fore. But when you
34:24talk about women and the youth, what are they looking for? They want stability. There is a
34:31migration problem which is becoming huge and humongous in Bihar. Who is going to tackle that?
34:38And let us not forget that people want change. And this change is certainly going to come even in 2020.
34:45Don't forget that even then, if you remember, the postal ballots were counted last and there were
34:51questions raised on the collectors at that time and we were in the midst of a pandemic.
34:55And the seats, of course...
34:57Ms. Sujata Paul, Ms. Sujata Paul, you need to offer, it's one thing, it's one thing identifying
35:05unemployment is a challenge. The other problem is how do you tackle the problem? BR has some
35:10structural issues it's had to deal with, particularly with job creation. It cannot just be about government
35:16jobs. It's about bringing in investments in BR. And that brings me to Pradeep Bhandari. Pradeep Bhandari,
35:21truth is you have been in power for 20 years. In 20 years, let's be clear, yes,
35:27Neetish Kumar has had significant achievements, no doubt about it. You look at the quality of roads,
35:32they've improved. I know the opposition will look at the bridge collapses, but overall,
35:37anyone who travels to BR has seen a better infrastructure than compared to what it was 20 years ago.
35:43Law and order, particularly in his first term, was significantly improved from the Lalu years. But
35:49you haven't been able to address the real aspirations, especially of the youth.
35:54That remains a weakness, that there is, in a sense, Bihar Badlega, which Niti Kumar spoke about,
36:01that Badlav has not taken place to the extent that was promised. Therefore, there's a gap between
36:06aspirations and the reality. Do you concede that or not? Does the NDA alliance concede
36:14that after 20 years in power, you have not been able to change Bihar's face completely?
36:18Well, Rajdeep, you and various other analysts and the Congress party always believes that in every
36:27successive election and that's the same narrative which is Haryana, Maharashtra or Delhi and the
36:32people of the various states give back the majority to the Bharti Dinta party or the NDA because it's a
36:37pro-incumbency government. So, do not question the wisdom of the people of Bihar or any state when it's
36:43votes in a government for two consecutive decades in an era where global anti-incumbency prevails.
36:48Now, let me go fact by fact because I was listening to analysts. Bihar, at this moment,
36:52is one of the top five growth rates across the country. It is growing at 14% growth rate. For
36:56the first time in the history of Bihar, the manufacturing growth rate has surpassed the
37:00agricultural growth rate. The budget of Bihar has grown by 10x. The Bihar has lifted maximum people
37:05out of poverty. This is not what I am saying. The RBI also says that and various other reports also
37:10says that. Bihar has more than 3,762 registered startups and not even one percentage of those
37:15startups have closed. The 10,000 rupees deposited in 1.20 crore women of Bihar. The very next day,
37:21majority of the women have started local self-employment opportunities. The women of Bihar
37:25are Swavlambi at this moment. Travel in Bihar to know it. Now, the Congress party is giving us
37:29lectures. Let us look at the Congress party's model from where the state where they belong,
37:33which is Karnataka. Youth on street, bus fare hiked by 14%, metro fare hiked by 15%, milk prices hiked by
37:393%, diesel prices hiked by 11%, water rates hiked by 30%. Bangalore has become a place where only
37:45potholes are there. So, the Congress will only promise it's the NDA which delivers.
37:49But the growth rate of Karnataka and... Mr. Prashant Kishore could not even have the courage. Allow me,
37:53allow me, please. Now, one minute. Pradeep Bhandari, the moment you cannot compare Karnataka and Bihar now.
37:58Please. On every growth parameter, Karnataka is way ahead of Bihar and I don't think that's a fair
38:05comparison. Let's compare Bihar from the point of view of other Hindi hardbox states. Rajdeep,
38:13Rajdeep, I am talking about what Congress claimed in Karnataka and what they delivered.
38:19They promised low inflation. Congress has hiked every price related to daily essentials. Youth on
38:24Karnataka are on streets. Even India today covered that story. So, the Congress party will always make
38:28claim. The only thing which the Congress and the RJD can promise is Jangal Raj 2.0. We've seen how
38:33they've given ticket to Shah Putin's son. Now, let me come to Jant Swaraj. Allow me because
38:36there are multiple opposition candidates. Jant Swaraj is saying...
38:39You are given tickets to Anand Mohan's son. No, no. You see, let me tell you...
38:44Every party has given the sons of Bahubani. You are given the ticket to Anand Mohan Singh's son.
38:53Rajdeep, Mr. Nitish Kumar and Prime Minister Narendra Modi's NDA government does not believe in
38:59state patronage to criminals. Have you seen ever where there was a time when Lalu Yadav was in power
39:04and Tejas P. Yadav used to... and the entire RJD was in power where the state used to patronize.
39:09Please look at the statement of Sadhu Yadav. Multiple stories have been done by India today.
39:13In fact, you at that time also used to do certain amount of stories which used to expose the crime
39:18and criminal nexus. Has Mr. Nitish Kumar ever been involved in any place where the state has given
39:22patronage? No. Mr. Nitish Kumar, not a single case of corruption against him in the past two decades
39:27has been proven. So there's a clean government here. If there is a criminal, the state acts
39:31against the criminal. And this is not what I'm saying. When you will go on the ground in Bihar
39:34and vote from the hinterland with a dispassionate mind, you will also see the MY factor, Mahina and
39:38you both are with us. And Bihar has historically always been a state where the youth profile and
39:43the women profile has been higher. And with that, if the BJP and the JDU is coming back to power,
39:47you need to appreciate the fact it's the women and the youth which are voting us for pro-incumbency.
39:52It is not to be a caste arithmetic that an alliance can come back to power for the last two consecutive
39:57decades. And also just 10 seconds, I challenge the Congress spokesperson, she's misquoting my
40:03passion. Let me tell you, I've heard you. I've never said that she wants to be removed. Nitish Kumar
40:07and Prime Minister Narey and the Modi leadership, we'll go on. If she dares to spread a fake news,
40:11we'll find a legal case against the Congress spokesperson. Stop spreading fake news and misquoting our
40:15leaders. I'm telling the Congress spokesperson right out here. Since you are the second,
40:19since you're the second person, just a minute, sir. Since you're the second person, before I come to
40:24Pawan Varma, Sujata Paul, do you have, do you want to give, uh, KC Tia, he also, uh, raised this
40:30question. Can you authenticate this statement? Where is this statement that Nata has made that the JDU
40:35is finished? Please authenticate these statements. Okay. Do you have an authenticated statement that
40:41JP Nata has said that the JDU will be finished? On 31st July 2022? Yes, that's when he was not in your
40:47party man. Let me, let me, uh, so how does that matter? On 6th October, I never said that, uh, uh,
40:55he was, uh, with, uh, ND at that time. 31st July 2022 and 6th October 2023, at a function of the birth
41:04centenary celebrations of, uh, their party patriarchy, uh, uh, Kailash Pati Mishra, uh, what Mr. JP
41:11Nata said was, regional parties are destined to be wiped out. And I'm quoting it from this particular
41:19news item from times of India. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. We've heard both sides. Remember,
41:40Neetish Kumar has changed parties on several occasions. So statements where you stand in
41:46politics depends on where you sit, but Pavan Verma and KC Tyagi have known Nithish Kumar well.
41:51And in many ways, uh, this election is about Nithish Kumar's last stand. Many believe very few
41:56politicians have had the longevity that Nithish Kumar has. Is there somewhere a path between
42:01what I heard from the Congress and the BJP Pavan Verma? Nithish Kumar has in a way contributed to
42:07some important aspects of Bihar story, but over the years, an element of fatigue has set in many
42:15beliefs. Where is the truth? How would you judge Nithish Kumar today? Is he someone who's still
42:21trusted, especially by women voters for what he's done for the Mahila in particular over the years?
42:27For five years, Rajdeep, after 2010, Nithish Kumar was indeed, uh, the most polished product of the
42:37socialist movement, a man of personal integrity, administrative acumen. He was called Sushashun Babu,
42:46and, uh, definitely a person who had a razor sharp mind. The decline in my view, and I have known him
42:54more closely than any of your panelists sitting today. The decline began sometime around 2017,
43:01when like a clumsy trapeze artist, he first suddenly joined the BJP, then joined the RJD, then joined the BJP,
43:10and so on and so forth. A series of acts without, uh, fully explicable reasons, taken suddenly and
43:19overnight, which made him lose credibility. Now on the question of fatigue factor. There is no doubt that
43:27after 15 years of Jangal Raj, in the first term of Nithish Kumar, he brought about very essential
43:36changes, especially relating to the rampant crime under Jangal Raj. But when you judge a leadership of 20
43:47years, uh, objectively, you will have to accept that whatever statistics are being thrown at you,
43:54lies are lies, and statistics are damned lies. Of course, Bihar will show some progress since 2005,
44:01in terms of its budget, in terms of growth. But all these statistics have to be seen comparatively,
44:09in terms of where the nation has reached. What was the budget of India in 2005? The central budget, compare it with now,
44:15it's now today. So Bihar is today, the un, incontrovertible fact is the Bihar is still the poorest and the most
44:25backward state in the country, exactly what it was 30 years ago. One third of its 14 crore population
44:34lives below the poverty line. 50% of the very women who, for whom they claim support, are illiterate. It has the
44:41lowest per capita income, the highest rate of migration outside because of lack of jobs. And,
44:47by the way, at the lower levels and at the top, the level of corruption, which Nitish Kumar would
44:53never have tolerated, has reached a point where, in the absence of his control and supervision of his
45:00cabinet, a cabal of ministers and officers are looting the state.
45:04Okay, you've made your point. I want Kesi Tiaagyi who's also known Nitish Kumar for years.
45:13Nitish Kumar ji, Kesi Tiaagyi ji, do you believe that Nitish Kumar ji is increasing
45:19or you think that it is a pro-incumbency? Pradip Bhandari says that there is a pro-incumbency
45:25factor in BJP. Do you think that it is a pro-incumbency?
45:31I don't know. I want to say something like that.
45:34I want to say something like that. I want to say something like that.
45:38They are both caste in the country. They are caste-ists. They are, they are
45:43caste-ists. Their feudal states, they have level of land reform.
45:49They did not listen to land, their people not speak. They did not speak the same.
45:55in the history of the Bihar, which was the turning point in the history of the Bihar,
46:09which was the backward quota in this country.
46:14This country was the first time of the Bihar, which was the economic weaker section,
46:24which was the first time.
46:26The Bihar has 50% of the Bihar in 2006.
46:32People say that they are now in 2006.
46:39جتنی بھی نگر نگم ہے نگر پالی کا ہے گرام پنچات ہیں اس میں پندرے سال پہلے
46:44آرکشن ہو چکا تھا اور میں آن ریکوڈ کہنا چاہتا ہوں مجبوطی سے کہنا
46:50چاہتا ہوں کہ بہت سارے راج ہیں جہاں ویکر سیکسن کے لوگوں کو نیا
46:55نہیں ملتا ہے بیہار سوسل جسٹس کی جنرم بھومی ہے لیڈ بائی ڈانٹر لہیہ
47:00جیپرکاش نان ان کرپولی تھاکور ان فلوڑڈ بائی نو لیسی پرسندن نتشکمار
47:06himself, many people are against this because of this because of the social justice phenomenon
47:12and the weaker section of the people who want the status of the society, they are crustists.
47:20Those who want to change the system, they are crustists, not the number one.
47:24Okay, I've heard about corruption.
47:28One second.
47:30a minute.
47:31foreign
48:01Can I come in?
48:04Okay, whether corruption is a great leveler is another question.
48:08It isn't, as if corruption has disappeared, certainly in states like Bihar.
48:12And I think KC Tyagi knows that, particularly the low-level corruption and the corruption that continues.
48:17In fact, many believe, and Prashant Kishore has put out certain figures
48:20about the amounts of money that ministers have accumulated in Bihar.
48:24But I have five minutes, and I'm going to get each of my panelists.
48:27But first, I want to come to the RJD.
48:28We spoke about Neetish Kumar.
48:30This is also, just a minute, this is also Lalu Prasad's last battle, many believe.
48:35He's, in fact, probably not going to campaign much, but he remains a face.
48:39Sayyad Akram, jab bhi Lalu ji ki baat ati hai, jungle raj ki baat ati hai, corruption ki baat ati hai.
48:44Kuchhi dindho phele IRTC scam mein unka naam nikla kaha gaya, wo sargana hai, he's the head of this corruption.
48:51Do you accept, jungle raj and corruption are continuing to haunt the RJD.
48:56RJD does not represent change because a lot of voters, the moment they think of the RJD, will remember corruption of the past.
49:03RJD, I hope that no one is going to say.
49:11Just let me make my point.
49:13You're a person of a person who is a person who isprinting you, you're a person who is a person who is a person who is.
50:49No, no, you are live on the show.
50:53No, no, one minute, one minute.
51:02Let me clarify. Put the faders down. Let me clarify. Amit Shah said even today, just a minute, even today when the BJP has more than the JDU, the chief minister of Bihar is Nitish Kumar. He claimed he said that and then said that the decision will be taken by the elected MLAs after the election.
51:22But he did not say that Nitish Kumar will not be the chief minister. In fact, every indication that he gave is Nitish Kumar will continue.
51:29But as I end, I want that one big factor that will prove decisive. Manisha Priyam and Yashvan Deshpook's short comments at the end. If there is one factor you believe Manisha Priyam that will decide Bihar this time, what is that one factor? Each of you gets 30 seconds. You start Manisha first. What is that one factor that you believe will be decisive in Bihar?
51:50Votes of the extremely poor, who also happen to be the extremely backward caste. The whole situation is in a flux and talking about history and Karpoori is not enough. They have to be trusting the offerings that are coming of 10,000 and 1,000 or of jobs on the other side.
52:13Votes of the extremely poor, these youth we talk about are actually young children of very poor migrant laborers. So all the issues are intertwined. And this is the election of the poorest in the world as I see it.
52:30The poorest of the world. Who do the poor wish to vote for? Yashvan Deshpook, what is that one factor? Do you stick to your Mahila factor or is it the Garib factor which cuts across all divides in Bihar?
52:41Well, everything will work. I mean, these all factors work, but my aim or my interest would be in looking at the female turnout, Rajdeep. If the female turnout in Bihar will be less than the male turnout, then Tejasvi Adham is likely to be the chief minister.
52:57If it is at par with the male turnout, it is going to be a clothe contest. But if the female turnout is more than the male turnout, then Nitish Kumar is going to create history.
53:11Pavan Verma, what is that one factor that will decide Bihar? 30 seconds.
53:16Without a doubt, the overwhelming desire in Bihar for change, for moksha from the kind of parties and leaders that have ruled Bihar for 30 years and ruined it.
53:33And this time, the X factor and the deciding factor is the emergence of a third alternative, dynamic, organizationally strong, with a new message for the change of Bihar.
53:47By the way, that affects women, that affects youth, it affects the entire population of Bihar.
53:54If one third of Bihar is below the poverty line, are women not suffering?
53:59Therefore, the clarion call for badlab is what is going to be the most important factor in this election, and that is represented by Jansuraj and Prashant Kishore.
54:13Pradeep Bhaddari, the one factor that you believe will be decisive.
54:16Well, it's a pro-incumbency election with the women of Bihar, the youth of Bihar, and the poor of Bihar, wanting to get back Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Nitish Kumar.
54:28We will get bigger mandate than what we got in 2020.
54:31Mr. Pavan Verma is lying.
54:3340% of people were below the poverty line before we took power.
54:36Now, only 5.9% of people are below the poverty line.
54:40Bihar has lifted maximum people out of the poverty line than any other state.
54:44Mr. Verma, please stop lying.
54:46Okay, the fact at the end of the day is its per capita income still remains among the lowest in the country.
54:55I just want to turn to Sujata Paul.
54:58What is that one factor that you believe Sujata Paul will decide this election?
55:02The youth and the women, they are looking for employment, they are looking for a better life,
55:08and they are looking for somebody who will save them from the rising crime in Bihar.
55:14And it will be the Mahakat Bandar.
55:16Right.
55:19Okay, I'm going to leave it there.
55:21I've given each and every one of you time to speak on various issues concerning Bihar.
55:27It remains one of the most fascinating states in the country when it comes to politics,
55:31because everyone in Bihar has an opinion.
55:34The question is, is Bihar ready for Badlav, as some claim, or is Bihar seeking simply more continuity along with an element of change?
55:46Remember, it's seen two warriors, Nitish Kumar and Lalu Prasad, who've dominated the politics of Bihar for almost three decades now.
55:55The question is, is there space for other voices?
55:57And is a hyper-localized election mean that this isn't about Narendra Modi and Rahul Gandhi, this is about local issues?
56:05That too could be seen in this election.
56:08And then, of course, there's the question of all the freebies, as they are called, or the rave-dee, that have been given before the elections.
56:15Could they prove to be a game-changer?
56:18Either way, as I said at the outset, Bihar remains one of India's political bellwether states.
56:23And we'll track it right through this month here on India Today.
56:27For all our pandas, thank you very much.
56:29I wish you all a very happy Diwali.
56:31Thanks for watching.
56:33Stay well, stay safe.
56:34Have a safe Diwali and a happy one.
56:37Bye for now.
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