Translating Vision into Action: Theo Minné on Innovation, Leadership & Building Africa’s Energy Future | Tangelic Talks S03E09

Name: Translating Vision into Action: Theo Minné on Innovation, Leadership & Building Africa’s Energy Future | Tangelic Talks S03E09
Uploaded: 2025-10-15T07:31:37+00:00
Duration: 32 min 3 s
Channel: Tangelic Life

Tangelic Life

💡 How do you turn a bold vision into lasting impact?

In this powerful episode of Tangelic Talks, co-hosts Victoria Cornelio and Andres Tamez sit down with Theo Minné, a telecom and infrastructure veteran with over three decades of experience building systems across Africa — from mobile networks in the 1990s to today’s clean energy transformation.

Theo shares his journey from the deserts of Namibia to leading sustainable infrastructure projects that power communities and drive innovation. With decades of experience at ABB, Ericsson, and Tangelic, he explains how systems thinking, inclusive leadership, and impact-driven investment can shape Africa’s energy future.

🎙️ In This Episode:
🌍 Turning complex ideas into scalable solutions
⚙️ What telecom taught Africa about clean energy
💰 The rise of conscious capital and ethical investment
🚧 Navigating logistical and political challenges
🤝 Building trust through local community partnerships
⚡ Anchor clients, distributed value chains, and resilience
🧭 Leadership, grit, and staying consistent in uncertainty
💬 How Africa can build innovation for its people, not around them

🔹 About Our Guest: Theo Minné is a veteran engineer and business leader with 30+ years of experience across telecom, energy, and infrastructure in Africa. As a systems thinker, he focuses on translating complex ideas into grounded, actionable impact that empowers local communities.

📌 Timestamps:
00:00–01:28 Incremental Steps: How to Tackle Big Problems Piece by Piece
01:29–02:57 Meet Theo Minne: Turning Vision into Action Across Africa
02:58–04:46 From Apprentice to Telecom Pioneer: The Early Career Journey
04:47–06:41 Evolution of Telecom: Complexity, Costs & the Human Factor
06:42–09:03 Conscious Capital: Rethinking Finance for Real Impact
09:04–11:53 Generational Shifts: Youth, Innovation & New Capital Models
11:54–14:42 The Promise and Peril of AI: Innovation, Risk & the Future of Work
14:43–18:13 Systems Thinking: Simplifying Complexity Without Losing Depth
18:14–24:05 Scaling Challenges in Africa: Logistics, Access & Rural Realities
24:06–29:46 Leadership Lessons: Persistence, Mentorship & Building with Vision
29:47–31:29 Final Reflections and Closing Outro

✨ Explore More:
🌐 Website: www.TangelicLife.org
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tangeliclife/
🐦 Twitter/X: https://x.com/Tangelic_
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tangelic/
👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tangelic.org

💬 Join the Conversation: What does “translating vision into action” mean to you? Comment below 👇

✅ Follow Tangelic Talks for more conversations on energy, equity, innovation, and empowerment.

🌱 Support our mission: TangelicLife.org

🔖 #TangelicTalks #EnergyInnovation #AfricaRising #CleanEnergyAfrica #LeadershipInAction #SustainableInfrastructure #ClimateLeadership #ImpactInvestment #ConsciousCapital #SystemsThinking #EnergyAccess #TelecomToTech #OffGridEnergy #InclusiveDevelopment #RenewableFuture

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Learning

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00:00There's a very old saying that says, how do you eat an elephant piece by piece?

00:04And it's the same in the business world.

00:05How do you deal with something that you want to scale that's complex?

00:08You start off somewhere, right?

00:10And you take incremental steps because if we assume that we're going to immediately

00:14roll out to thousands of houses or households, then we'll be heading for a hiding.

00:20So you have to build a systematic approach.

00:24It is definitely the newer generation is driving some of the change

00:27because they look at things differently than the old traditional ways.

00:31Give you an example.

00:32In South Africa, we have a very conservative approach to capital,

00:37moving capital, moving capital into projects, incredibly risk averse.

00:41The important thing that I've learned in life is we sometimes want to make everything as complex as possible

00:47because we believe that complexity speaks to our brilliance in a way.

00:57Tell me as a suggestion that combines an upbeat and abiding spirit without any micro music.

01:03Welcome to Tangelic Talks, your go-to podcast from Tangelic,

01:07where we dive into the vibrant world of clean energy, development, sustainability, and climate change in Africa.

01:13We bring you inspiring stories, insightful discussions, and groundbreaking innovations

01:18from the continent-making waves in the global community.

01:21Tune in and join the conversation toward a brighter, greener future.

01:25Let's get started.

01:27Welcome to Tangelic Talks, a podcast at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment

01:34with your co-hosts, Victoria Cornelio and Andres Thames.

01:37In today's episode, we're talking to Theo Mene on translating vision into action.

01:41Theo, can you tell us a little bit more about who you are

01:44and how you're going to help us understand a little bit more of this thing?

01:47We all have great ideas.

01:49Not all of us know how to execute them.

01:51Yeah, thank you so much.

01:52I'm very, very happy to be on your podcast.

01:55I'm very excited with the work that Tangelic is doing and to be part of that.

02:00Every week, I'm super impressed by the team.

02:02So, it's really fantastic to be part of this team.

02:07And the work that you and Andres is doing is also really fantastic.

02:10So, well done to you guys as well.

02:12Yeah, I think it's really interesting to take a plan, to take a vision and put it into practice.

02:21And most especially, you know, in Africa.

02:25And it sounds like maybe a little bit of a cliche, but it's really a difficult region to work within.

02:31You have to respect the countries that you work within, but you also have to respect the challenges that you will face.

02:39And I've worked in more structured countries and I've worked in very poor African countries.

02:45I've worked everything in between.

02:47And you learn a lot by working in these countries.

02:51You learn about the culture, but you also learn how to adapt and to innovate, strangely enough.

02:55So, it's really, it's been a long road.

03:00I think the first time I worked outside South Africa was 1994.

03:06I went to Namibia.

03:08We did some microwave links there.

03:11And there you're working in the desert, right?

03:13So, that's a different experience.

03:15And how did this journey begin for you?

03:18So, how did you get into this line of work?

03:20Strangely enough, I started my electronic apprenticeship

03:23at the joint venture between Alcatel, the French company,

03:27and a local technical company or tech company, Altec, which is called Alcatel Altec.

03:31I started as an electronic apprentice.

03:33I started building electronic text equipment for a production line for BMW.

03:40And shortly after, mobile telecoms came into South Africa.

03:44And at this point, they needed a lot of people.

03:47And it sounded interesting.

03:48And I said, okay, I'll move over to the new division.

03:50And, I mean, there I've stayed in mobile telecoms for many, many years.

03:55So, my introduction into that was really when I was still very young,

04:00in the early part of my professional career.

04:03And it's been a roller coaster, you know, because it's a fast pace,

04:08a lot of risk, a lot of danger.

04:11The stuff that we had to do at a fast pace was really risky.

04:15And, you know, so it was almost like an addiction.

04:19It was an industry that it takes time to get used to.

04:24And not everybody can cope with it.

04:25But once you're in, you know, you just want more of it.

04:30Yeah.

04:31And I can imagine...

04:31Is it the challenges that are attractive?

04:34Is that the addiction?

04:35Just like, I want to keep on getting past these hurdles.

04:41I mean, in the early days, what was really interesting is there was no cell phone networks, right?

04:48So, you had to build multiple sites in different locations without a cell phone.

04:53Because we are so used to it nowadays.

04:56It's unthinkable that we don't have, you know, the ability to pick up your phone

05:01and immediately phone someone.

05:02In those days, you couldn't.

05:03If you had a problem, you had to solve it.

05:07Or if you wanted to phone your boss, you have to drive to the nearest town

05:10and then find a place to phone him.

05:12So, it was so cool.

05:14But we work at heights.

05:16We work with civil works.

05:18We work with electrical works.

05:19Everything was combined into this single point, you know,

05:23as rolling out this infrastructure.

05:24All these different aspects were combined into this single space.

05:28And it was far space.

05:30I mean, we worked very long hours.

05:32A lot of times, seven days a week.

05:33We worked nonstop, you know.

05:34So, it was, you get into that mode.

05:37And then when things slow down, you get a little bit frustrated

05:39because you're so used to getting, you know, just going, going, going, going, you know.

05:44But it was a lot of fun.

05:45I think it became more fun when we worked in Africa.

05:48Because all of a sudden, in the early days, when we built telco networks in Africa,

05:53man, it was such a challenge.

05:54Even to get cement was a challenge.

05:57Gosh.

05:57Right?

05:59Yeah.

06:00Even to get clean water to build.

06:02It was a challenge.

06:03So, it was, it's a lot of fun.

06:05You learn a lot.

06:06Yeah.

06:06And I can imagine with so many years in the industry, like you just said,

06:09one of the challenges was that you couldn't just phone someone up.

06:12What is the biggest challenge now in this day and age that you kind of come across?

06:17I think the telco networks now have become much more complex

06:21because as they added technology layers, these things become much more complex.

06:25So, your skillset change and how to maintain these networks.

06:29But equally, I think what's also happened in the industry, which is a massive challenge,

06:33is that the price for certain services were suppressed.

06:38Year after year, you had price erosion.

06:40Even though a lot of your input cost is inflation-related, and some of these things are macroeconomic-related,

06:50like field prices and things like that.

06:52So, you would find those two things, two opposing forces.

06:55The one is the market wants to push the price down, and the other side, your input cost is higher.

06:59And I think that's a big challenge.

07:01So, that inevitably means you have to hire, when I say cheaper labor, it always sounds terrible,

07:07but lower-cost labor, you know.

07:10And I think that's the biggest challenge that you would find.

07:13Yeah.

07:14And then I can imagine then scaling that up.

07:17Something we talk about on the podcast a lot is like,

07:20oh, yeah, you have a really good idea, but where's the funding?

07:22How do we get this to happen?

07:24So, have you seen any innovations in financing or business models that you believe are promising?

07:29Yeah, I mean, Africa is going through a really interesting phase now when it comes to innovative finance.

07:36It's a term that's been, I say thrown around, but it's been used a lot.

07:41And it's not only that it's impact finance, but it's conscious finance.

07:49And more and more, private equity and family offices are looking at that type of model, which is interesting.

07:56It's not a traditional way of looking at finance.

07:59It's not just about your IRR or your ROI.

08:03It's also about the impact, the lasting impact it can make, the changes that it can bring.

08:10And we are seeing more people looking into that.

08:13Saying that, it's also interesting to note that Africa has received over the years billions and billions and billions for investment in infrastructure and the likes.

08:24So, you've seen a huge amount of investment, right?

08:28But what is unfortunate, not a lot of that investment translate to really changing the life of rural communities and poor people.

08:38Yeah.

08:38And it's not to say that it's corrupt.

08:40It's not.

08:41Because if you build a port, the rural community won't really benefit from any of the economic activity there.

08:46It's too far removed from them, right?

08:49So, a lot of those practical things, when you look at those investments moving into Africa, didn't really reach the communities for good reason.

08:57But I think that's something that I hope that conscious capital will be activated more and more so that the way they look at their returns, the way they look at their financial risk changes to the extent where those communities can first unlock the suppressed demand and grow from that new demand.

09:21And then have the ability to bring the money back into circulation, you know?

09:26Right.

09:27That seems to be a theme, almost a generational thing, right?

09:31Like, my generation is a lot more jaded on the ROI model or viewing everything as an ROI thing.

09:39Not only are they jaded on it, they don't like it.

09:43So, like, it seems like the future is some sort of change is happening.

09:47And do you think that – do you see that in the newer generation or is it just a trend in the industry as a whole?

09:52I think it is definitely the newer generation is driving some of the change because they look at things differently than the old traditional ways.

10:01I'll give you an example.

10:01In South Africa, we have a very conservative approach to capital, moving capital, moving capital into projects, incredibly risk-averse, even to the point when the 2008 financial crisis hit the U.S.

10:16and that spilled over into many other regions across the world.

10:19South Africa was affected, but not a lot because our whole financial system is so risk-averse.

10:26But what we have seen now the last decade with the young people coming in, driving innovation, especially as it relates to tech innovation and especially as it relates to AI innovation, things are changing.

10:38The way capital is moving into these things, into these think tanks and incubators are quite different than what it was a decade ago.

10:44So, I think the youth is now, in a sort of a way, pressuring the system a bit, you know, the conservative system to say, hey, hold on, you've got to do something here.

10:56And which is good.

10:57I think it's great.

10:58And we need that, you know.

11:00I think you need both, to be brutally honest.

11:02You need to be grounded, but you need that innovation drive as well.

11:06You can't have either or, you know.

11:08Yeah.

11:08And I think that's something you see when, for example, I work with a lot of senior people who are very well-versed, years of experience, but they've tried everything up to now.

11:17And in their heads, there's a lot of thinking of, well, there's, we've tried that already.

11:22We can't do that.

11:23Or there's new barriers, which to me are helpful.

11:25So then when my idea comes through, I'm like, I'm taking into account these things that you've already said don't work.

11:32And let's reshape them because there's a new, you know, this might work this time.

11:36Do you think that's kind of how innovation goes?

11:38So you take the context and work around these ideas, or does a new idea have to come in every time?

11:45I think it's both, really, to be honest.

11:48I think sometimes you can innovate on what's there, and sometimes you can, like a visionary, innovate something that's not there.

11:55And I think a very good example, and we always use this example as South Africans because we like to brag about Elon Musk.

12:02And Elon Musk is typically one of those that saw something that others didn't see possible, right?

12:10And so you would have always, you would have both.

12:12I think if you look at the way medical innovation, medical technology innovation happened over the years,

12:18that's a good example of something that's evolved and evolved consistently, innovate, innovate, but innovate on top of what's there.

12:25You know what is working because you can't take a chance of someone's life on brand new tech.

12:30So you'd rather innovate on something that's really tried and tested and trying to improve it.

12:35And out of that sometimes come new stuff.

12:37But I think AI, and I've read an article last week about the amount of new billionaires in the U.S. that's come into play the last year,

12:47and a lot of that stuff is AI-driven.

12:50And there, innovation is like, it's almost out in the ether, right?

12:54It's unbelievable what you can do with AI and the applications that come from that.

13:00So there you're going to find brand-spanking new innovation that's going to just blow our minds, you know?

13:06Yeah.

13:06And a lot of these technologies, do you think they enable us to do the thing we were already going to do?

13:13Or is it also a vehicle for us to think about new things that we can do now that this technology is available?

13:20I'm slightly, I'm excited about AI, but I'm also scared of AI.

13:25I think it's, and the reason for that is, I think some of the jobs that people have come accustomed to

13:32and have built the whole sort of career on will be under threat, right?

13:38I think that's the one thing that we have to deal with in this new era of AI.

13:44On the other side, it improves a lot, right?

13:47It allows us to access information and models and all sorts of things that we would otherwise not have been able to do it ourselves.

13:58So you would find people will innovate more from AI, use AI as a way to innovate and to improve their life.

14:07But I think you're going to, there will be people that will be badly affected.

14:10It has to be.

14:11There's no other way.

14:13Yeah.

14:13I also feel like one of the big problems with it is the jumping the gun, right?

14:19The bubble as it sorts that comes out from the arrival of AI and how they, all these big companies are so quick to try and replace people.

14:30And then they regret it when the AI does something that it's going to happen.

14:36These big mistakes that it makes because it's not ready yet, right?

14:40I think like in the future, it's going to be a fantastic, right now it's a fantastic tool.

14:46In the future, it's going to be something that lets us do new things.

14:49But I really, I really think that it's too soon.

14:54It's too soon for a lot of the, a lot of the sci-fi ideas that these, that a lot of people think it can do.

15:02True.

15:03Yeah.

15:04Absolutely spot on.

15:05And I think this is, this is going to be a massive learning curve.

15:09Not only for us as individuals, but for big corporations.

15:11And they're going to be willing to gamble with billions in the process, right?

15:17Yeah.

15:18Unfortunately, it is, it is an industry that, that has to be shaped like that because you can't really box it too much.

15:24If you box it, you're going to limit it.

15:26So how do you manage this, this, this almost boundaryless system in a way?

15:35You know, how do you manage that effectively?

15:38It's going to look, I think we'll see some brilliant people coming out of this and we will say, wow, you know, this was really fantastic.

15:45What they saw in the future with AI, because I must be honest with you, what I think AI can do is probably scratching the surface, you know, to a micron level.

15:55You know, I think really it's, it's, it's that impressive, right?

15:58Yeah, it's untapped.

16:00And then I guess that brings us nicely into systems thinking, which is something that you employ in the way that you create and design ideas.

16:08How, can you explain what that is and how that shapes your perspective around complex environments or the complex environments you're working in?

16:16Yeah, I think the important thing that I've learned in life is we sometimes want to make everything as complex as possible because we believe that complexity speaks to our brilliance in a way.

16:28But, you know, but what I've learned is it, whatever, however complex a situation is, you have to bring it to a level that's simplistic in implementation.

16:37Because what you don't want is to burden the people that, that has to implement that you are going to task of the implementation to burden them with an enormous amount of complexity.

16:50I'll give you one example.

16:51I moved into a new role at ABB and it was actually just the first time in my life I moved into a business development role, which is really where my passion started.

17:01You know, the first eight years was more in the field and more construction and project management.

17:05But when I started at ABB, it was first sailed, but then it moved into business development.

17:12And in this process, they asked us to look at one specific process.

17:19How could we automate that?

17:21And I thought, man, this is my chance.

17:22I'm going to shine like a star.

17:24And I made something so complex and I felt so proud of it.

17:29And the people from head office in Zurich, they were evaluating this thing.

17:34And, and the comment that came back is, no, man, this is, this is technically correct, but it's so complex and it will take forever for people to implement.

17:43And that's the key thing, right?

17:44We can make things as thorough as possible and as complex as possible, but it will take forever for people to then follow those steps.

17:51So you have to, you have to deal with complexity and by putting it on the blueprint, what do we ultimately want to achieve?

17:58Right.

17:59How do we do that in the most effective way, considering our main goals?

18:04In other words, if profitability is a goal or if speed is a goal or if, or if quality is a goal, whatever those goals are, we define and we say, what's the best way to achieve this, the most efficient way for everybody?

18:17Not only for, for myself, but for the people who actually have to go and do the work in the field.

18:21Right.

18:23So you've got to, you've got to take those complex things and then break it down into practical, small things and then simplify it.

18:30Right.

18:31And I think that's something a lot of people struggle with of simplifying without dumbing it down.

18:35Right.

18:36Because how do you balance that of this is a simple way of doing it, but I'm not just being condescending and telling it to you like a toddler?

18:44Well, sometimes you have to, right?

18:47I think sometimes being that simplistic is really, really helpful.

18:51I constantly do that.

18:54Even if I'm in more complex conversations, I'm trying to just make it practical.

18:59And you will probably hear that a lot when I, when I speak in the meetings that we have, I will say, look, I'm just really pragmatic.

19:05I want to be practical.

19:06Let's just try to make this very practical.

19:08And I do that for a reason because, and then this is going to sound terrible, but I don't mean it like that.

19:13We don't need a lot of fluff when we have to deal with real world stuff.

19:17We need practical, simple solutions.

19:20And if there's a shortfall in what we are proposing, then we'll, we'll, we'll know soon enough.

19:25You know, if it's too mundane in, in, in our thinking, we'll know because you're going to implement it.

19:30And then you're going to realize, all right, I have missed a step.

19:33We maybe just have to add this additional step.

19:35And that happens a lot.

19:36Honestly, I can tell you, and we've worked on projects where we started, let's say the first 50 sites.

19:42We iron this thing out, you know, how do we deal with the first 50?

19:45Then we scale that to 500 sites.

19:48And then you realize, okay, hold on a sec.

19:50I have to add another step, but I can reduce this step.

19:53There's always that process innovation to, to, to make sure you can scale because scaling is unbelievably complex and especially in Africa.

20:00Yeah. And is that because it's very context-based or what's, what's that challenge when it comes to scaling?

20:07I think for Africa, logistics is one of the key things, right?

20:13Just moving stuff to where it needs to go is sometimes it will take a huge amount of the time in your time plan.

20:22Logistics will take a lot of that.

20:23Then you have to plan around it.

20:25And of course, then you have to deal with the weather because if it rains, you can't access a road for a week.

20:29You can't get there, you know?

20:31And I've, I've had it.

20:32When I worked in Rwanda, where we had from Kigali, the capital down south to, to, to the southern tip there by Lake Kivu.

20:44If, if there's a, there's a place where you drive through the, the jungle, right?

20:48And it's beautiful.

20:49It's absolutely stunning.

20:51And then it, and it goes into the mountains.

20:53But if it rains, there are massive rock slides.

20:55Then in other words, you will drive five hours to get there only to realize the road is closed.

21:01Then you have to drive five hours back, right?

21:04And it's a very dangerous road.

21:05And then you got to wait until someone tells you the road is open.

21:09And that could be a week.

21:10That could be a month.

21:12So logistics is, is the biggest risk to, to, to make sure you can scale, right?

21:19And that's, that's the big challenge, especially rural communities, especially rural communities.

21:23Yeah.

21:24And it's so important because of what you were saying that a lot of the innovation is happening in urban settings and rural communities.

21:31Can't really access that.

21:32So when you scale into rural or off-grid communities, what's the goal there?

21:38Why are you scaling that way?

21:40I think we're scaling into the rural communities because that's firstly where a big need is, right?

21:44And I think that's, that's something that we want to see economically change for those rural communities.

21:52We want to see, like, you know, we want to see more women partaking in economic activities.

21:59In other words, not just collecting wood or water, but actually get involved with agro process in some way or another and make sure that that output can reach a market somewhere.

22:10And they can earn a living, a different type of living.

22:13So our challenge, I think, is Tangelic would be, how do we scale into areas that don't have a lot of the infrastructure that you typically would find in Accra, right?

22:26And in the capital of Toronto, things that you take for granted in Accra, you would not be able to find up north.

22:32I'll give you another example.

22:35When we worked in the DRC, right, and we had to move material around and, and cement and, you know, pieces of steel and stuff.

22:46We would, we would ship them into, it's not Lubumbashi, it's the other one, Kinshasa.

22:52We would, we would ship them into Kinshasa.

22:54Then we would hire an Antonov plane, a Russian plane.

22:59We would, we would fly it to the, to the area where it's safest enough for them to land close to that village where we need to build that tower, right?

23:07But we still can't get there.

23:08Then we offload all the stuff.

23:09We put it onto boats.

23:11We then go up river, right, with the stuff.

23:14And then ultimately we get to close to the village, but it's not quite there.

23:18Then guides with mopeds are waiting and we're taking small piece by piece with mopeds and we're driving it to the site, right?

23:24And that's how we move material.

23:26So I think those type of challenges that we will find going north into Ghana, they will be there, right?

23:34If we want to do.

23:34It's sort of like you have to make sure everything else is efficient because this definitely won't be.

23:39This is one part of the process.

23:41It just cannot be.

23:43Yeah, exactly.

23:44And you know, the sad, the sad part of that equation is that it means the cost per unit is much higher to build there than in Accra.

23:52But then you're building it for those who are really poor.

23:56And that's really sad.

23:57You know, it's a reality, but it's sad because it means whatever you can put into the ground in Accra will be probably 30% less in cost than if I do it in the northern part of Ghana.

24:09You know, that's going to be the big challenge.

24:11That's why the way we combine our solutions, the way we put our solutions together needs to be really effective.

24:16It's one of those situations where the ones you want to reach, the ones you want your product to reach the most or the hardest to reach, but you have to reach them.

24:24That's the whole point of the project or whatever you're doing.

24:29That's right.

24:30That's absolutely spot on.

24:32Yeah, it's a hard one to walk.

24:33And then because they are so off-grid, these communities, right, how do we then balance high-level corporate institutional partners and working with them while also ensuring that communities remain empowered and central to the project design?

24:48Because like Andres said, the point is for them to access this, right?

24:51Yeah, I mean, this is where you've got to be so innovative commercially, right?

24:56And when I say commercially, I mean all the way from the cost of the system, the longevity of the system, because there's initial capital cost, but there's an ongoing operational cost as well, which is quite important to note, especially in Africa, because it's higher as a percentage of your capex.

25:14But you also have to be innovative in the types of funding that you can apply to it, right?

25:19And then you have to be innovative in the revenue streams that you unlock, because that's the only way, if these communities have something that on a daily basis really generates money for them, then it's something they will continue to do.

25:33And if they continue to do it, then we'll be continuing to receive some benefits from that on our side.

25:42And that means that the investors that got involved initially will also benefit from that.

25:46That's why it's important to lock all three of those things in.

25:50It's not either or.

25:51If one leg doesn't work, then the thing will screech to an halt, you know?

25:56Yeah.

25:57Wow.

25:58Okay.

25:59I guess that's where the system thinking comes in, right?

26:01It's very complex, but we've got to make it as simple as possible, as straightforward as possible.

26:06And then how do you communicate that to the workforce?

26:08How do you tell the people you're working with, this is the game plan, this is what we're doing?

26:13I always believe that you have to align everybody first and foremost behind the strong vision, which I think Justin has done really well, right?

26:21And I think that that is the most important thing.

26:24And don't muddy the water with the vision.

26:28Don't try to add too many things.

26:30I think that's the first thing.

26:30Just keep the vision clear and simple.

26:32Let people get behind it, because they will be energized to get behind it.

26:36And then, of course, it's a step-by-step approach.

26:39You know, there's a very old saying that says, how do you eat an elephant piece by piece?

26:44And it's the same in the business world.

26:45How do you deal with something that you want to scale that's complex?

26:48You start off somewhere, right?

26:50And you take incremental steps, because if we assume that we're going to immediately roll out to thousands of houses or households, then we'll be heading for a hiding.

27:00So, you have to build a systematic approach, step-by-step.

27:04We'll do 95 houses, guys.

27:06Let's do our lessons learned.

27:07How did we do?

27:08Where did we?

27:09Didn't do so well.

27:10Right.

27:10How do we improve?

27:11Let's do the next one and the next one.

27:12And this is how we build a huge amount of infrastructure in Africa.

27:15It's exactly that.

27:16We started off with a small pocket.

27:19Let's say in the DRC, we would build sites in Kinshasa first.

27:23Get to know the policies.

27:24Get to know the tax laws.

27:25Get to know regulation.

27:26Get to know the logistics.

27:27Get to know stuff.

27:29And this is the same approach that we'll do with our workforce.

27:32It's to say, we're only going to do this now, right?

27:34So, let's focus only on this.

27:35I know we have a big plan.

27:36That's a vision.

27:37No, no.

27:37Settle down.

27:38We're only focusing on this now.

27:40And I think that's what we – that's our role as well, all of us at Angelic.

27:45It's our role to always pull back to something that's simplistic.

27:48Because I think sometimes the people get so excited about the vision and then, you know,

27:53make it so – want to make it so complex.

27:54So, we have the responsibility.

27:56And I do it constantly with Justin and Jess.

27:59And I say, guys, hold on a sec.

28:00Let's just settle this thing down.

28:01Let's understand a little bit better.

28:02And I do that because I want that same mindset on their part as leaders of the – of Angelic

28:10to then, you know, also make sure that they translate that back to the workforce from their side as well.

28:15Yeah.

28:16And then, in your experience, you know, so many years in all these roles that you've had,

28:22what is the defining leadership lesson that you've learned in driving complex execution?

28:28Well, I almost drink a lot.

28:33No, I'm kidding.

28:33No, I think it – I think you've got to just keep at it, right?

28:38The most important thing that we've learned in Africa is we've had so many setbacks.

28:44I mean, some of the projects we worked on, we could only do the work if the UN Army protected us because we worked in dangerous areas.

28:51But we would have never built those sites if we gave up, right?

28:55So I think the most important thing – I know it's cliche, but it's so true.

28:58And I've lived this many times.

29:00There are many things that we can deal with complexity and put a system in place and so on.

29:05But our grit to drive it through, our consistency, our effort, our non-stop effort, that's the winning recipe, really.

29:13And that's the most important thing.

29:15You know, I've worked on big projects, I've secured big projects for ABB and Ericsson, but I've worked on small projects that were disasters, but they were equally important in the process, right, is to drive through there, because you learn a lot, you know.

29:31Yes, to keep at it.

29:33And it's really hard to keep at it when, you know, all these challenges come up and when everyone feels a bit hopeless sometimes.

29:38So, what advice would you give someone who is embarking on this journey to make their vision practical and have impact?

29:46I think you need – if you're just starting this thing up, let's say you're starting something up yourself, right?

29:51I think you need to find a good mentor, right?

29:54I think that helps a lot, someone to ground you.

29:57If you're in an organization that's starting up, like typically Tangelic, I think the most important thing that we have is each other at this point.

30:06And to be open and honest with one another.

30:08I had a call with someone yesterday, I won't mention her name.

30:11She asked me, she said, look, I've received this, but I'm not sure how to tackle this.

30:15And I said, okay, but you – just be really pragmatic and be honest to yourself.

30:18And then honest to the person that gave you this instruction.

30:21If you don't believe there's something that can be done here, then be open and honest.

30:25I can't find the link here.

30:28And that's the important thing for us.

30:30In the future, you know, when we scale and we deal with a lot of complexity, then we have the bonds.

30:37We have the transparency between us so that we can deal with things.

30:41The last thing we want as Tangelic is that all of us sit in our little corner and we start badmouthing this one and we, like, don't want to do this anymore.

30:49The organization will implode, to be honest.

30:52Yeah, it's that thing that the workforce kind of makes the organization.

30:57And you and so many leadership roles have probably seen how true that is.

31:02We're going to ask you more about this on the blog section.

31:06Thank you so much for being here, Theo.

31:07We're going to stay on for a couple more minutes to get you guys some really juicy insights from Theo's amazing career that you can find on the blog at TangelicLife.org.

31:17This was Theo Manet translating vision into action.

31:21We'll see you guys on the next one.

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