🌊 What happens when long-standing climate patterns suddenly collapse?
In this episode of Tangelic Talks, co-hosts Victoria Cornelio and Andres Tamez unpack two underreported but critical climate stories shaping our future:
1️⃣ Panama’s vanishing upwelling — For the first time in 40 years, this crucial ocean cycle in the Gulf of Panama has stopped, disrupting phytoplankton blooms, threatening coral reefs, and endangering fish populations that millions rely on.
2️⃣ The ICJ’s groundbreaking climate ruling — The International Court of Justice has declared that every nation has a legal obligation to prevent climate harm, regardless of treaty participation. Could this open the door for lawsuits against polluting countries and corporations?
🎙️ Episode Highlights:
🌊 Ocean disruption & the collapse of Panama’s fisheries system
💨 How shifting wind patterns reveal global climate instability
⚖️ Nations suing for climate damages — the ICJ’s game-changing opinion
🌱 Could this ruling finally drive corporate climate accountability?
🏝️ What it means for vulnerable nations on the frontlines of sea-level rise
💬 Why international law could become a new weapon for climate justice
✨ Explore More:
🌐 Website: www.TangelicLife.org
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tangeliclife/
🐦 Twitter/X: https://x.com/Tangelic_
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tangelic/
👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tangelic.org
💬 Join the Conversation: Do you think international law can finally hold polluters accountable? 🌍⚖️ And what should be done to protect communities at risk from sudden climate anomalies like Panama’s? Drop your thoughts below 👇
✨ Exclusive Content:
📽️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@tangeliclife/podcasts
🌐 Website: https://tangeliclife.org/tangelic-talks-podcast/
🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Tp4UAU4FmUmKS4md9orvi
🎧 Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tangelic-talks/id1789613381
✅ Don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe — your support helps us amplify voices at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment. 🌍✨
🌱 Love what we do? Support our mission and be part of the change: TangelicLife.org
🔖 #TangelicTalks #ClimateAnomalies #OceanCrisis #PanamaUpwelling #FisheriesAtRisk #CoralReefProtection #ClimateJustice #ICJRuling #InternationalLawForClimate #LossAndDamage #CorporateAccountability #ClimateLitigation #GlobalClimateJustice #SeaLevelRise #ClimateVulnerability #ClimateActionNow #OceansAndClimate #HumanRightsAndClimate #CommunityResilience
In this episode of Tangelic Talks, co-hosts Victoria Cornelio and Andres Tamez unpack two underreported but critical climate stories shaping our future:
1️⃣ Panama’s vanishing upwelling — For the first time in 40 years, this crucial ocean cycle in the Gulf of Panama has stopped, disrupting phytoplankton blooms, threatening coral reefs, and endangering fish populations that millions rely on.
2️⃣ The ICJ’s groundbreaking climate ruling — The International Court of Justice has declared that every nation has a legal obligation to prevent climate harm, regardless of treaty participation. Could this open the door for lawsuits against polluting countries and corporations?
🎙️ Episode Highlights:
🌊 Ocean disruption & the collapse of Panama’s fisheries system
💨 How shifting wind patterns reveal global climate instability
⚖️ Nations suing for climate damages — the ICJ’s game-changing opinion
🌱 Could this ruling finally drive corporate climate accountability?
🏝️ What it means for vulnerable nations on the frontlines of sea-level rise
💬 Why international law could become a new weapon for climate justice
✨ Explore More:
🌐 Website: www.TangelicLife.org
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tangeliclife/
🐦 Twitter/X: https://x.com/Tangelic_
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tangelic/
👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tangelic.org
💬 Join the Conversation: Do you think international law can finally hold polluters accountable? 🌍⚖️ And what should be done to protect communities at risk from sudden climate anomalies like Panama’s? Drop your thoughts below 👇
✨ Exclusive Content:
📽️ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@tangeliclife/podcasts
🌐 Website: https://tangeliclife.org/tangelic-talks-podcast/
🎧 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/1Tp4UAU4FmUmKS4md9orvi
🎧 Apple Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/tangelic-talks/id1789613381
✅ Don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe — your support helps us amplify voices at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment. 🌍✨
🌱 Love what we do? Support our mission and be part of the change: TangelicLife.org
🔖 #TangelicTalks #ClimateAnomalies #OceanCrisis #PanamaUpwelling #FisheriesAtRisk #CoralReefProtection #ClimateJustice #ICJRuling #InternationalLawForClimate #LossAndDamage #CorporateAccountability #ClimateLitigation #GlobalClimateJustice #SeaLevelRise #ClimateVulnerability #ClimateActionNow #OceansAndClimate #HumanRightsAndClimate #CommunityResilience
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00What happened is that the International Court of Justice issued an unanimous advisory opinion
00:06stating that every country has a binding legal obligation to prevent significant harm to the
00:13climate system, whether or not they've signed specific climate treaties. I think it's something
00:19climate anomalies are something that we've been warned about for so long. And they look very
00:25different depending on the context, right? Like a really different kind of natural disaster
00:32that a region used to not experience. They're experiencing it now. That's a bit more, I guess,
00:37tangible. A phenomenon that happens in the Gulf of Panama, which involves, basically involves
00:45wind. I believe it's wind pushing hot water down and by turn cold water up, right? And it's really
00:54important for the, for the ecology of the Gulf.
01:13Welcome to Tangelic Talks, a podcast at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment
01:20with your co-hosts, Victoria Cornelio and Andres Thomas. In this episode of what is happening
01:25right now, we've got some news for you that we just think you should know what's happening,
01:32especially in the climate space that tends to be undercovered in the news. So this is a quick
01:37bite-sized video. On the blog, you'll find all our resources and references to where we're getting
01:43the news from and some commentary on what we think about it. So make sure to check that out at
01:49angeliclife.org. Andres, kick us off. What is happening right now? So there's a lot of news and
01:56it was hard to choose something because there's a lot going on, but I thought I'd go with something
02:00that just caught my eye and I was like, that's pretty interesting. So there is a, there is a phenomenon
02:06that happens in the, in the Gulf of Panama, which involves, basically involves wind. I believe it's
02:14wind pushing hot water down and by, by, by turn, cold water up. Right. And it's really important for
02:22the, for the ecology of the Gulf. And that has been a pattern for 40 years and it stopped this year
02:30for now. So that means that the areas around there have to get ready and not basically seeing
02:40if this resumes next year, if this resumes in some way and all that will depend on how we're going to
02:48have to treat the fishes of, of, of that, of that place. The coral reefs will be affected. It will,
02:57it will harshly affect the fishing industry. Uh, which is, which is the big thing that I was
03:02thinking about because, you know, fishing is such a huge part of the economy in a lot of places.
03:09And I imagine the Gulf of Panama, it's, it's very similar. Right. And so this will affect spawning
03:14rates because what the main thing it affects is the spot is the, um, Oh, what are they called?
03:19The blooms of, of, uh, plankton, phytoplankton. Oh, right. And so without those blooms, you don't
03:26have the food necessary for huge blooms and other fish species that eat the plankton or the ones that
03:34eat the, that eat the plankton. And so we, uh, you know, depending on how long this phenomenon
03:40continues and it could cause a, cause a crash in the species populations and the species that people
03:47depend on to make money and eat and all that stuff. Uh, so that's, and is this the first time
03:52it's happened? This is the first time it's happened. So the pattern, the pattern has been going on for
03:5740 years. I'm not exactly sure if before those 40 years, uh, it was different or it just started
04:03being recorded, uh, around 40 years ago, but this has been a pattern year to year. And right now it is
04:10the first year for that to, to, to cease. Just, it's just, so I believe it's a 20, 20 degree
04:16differential in the, in surface water temperatures and Jesus Christ. Yeah. Yeah. Fahrenheit. But I
04:23think, I believe Fahrenheit, Fahrenheit and Celsius are the same difference per degree. It's the same,
04:28right? Uh, so yeah, it's, it's really, really bad. Now that's, that's 20 degrees at the most,
04:36right. At the most extreme, but it's, it's usually more than 10. And so that is a huge
04:41temperature, uh, temperature differential, especially for the oceans and species that
04:45live in water, super sensitive to temperature. Uh, so yeah, that, that's something that caught
04:51my eye and I was like, well, do they have any theories of why this happened? So not, not a theory,
05:00like, you know, it was, it was more or less like, well, this is happening. We'll see what happens
05:06next year. Right. Okay. So they just observed it. Cause 20 Fahrenheit is like, I think 0.6 or
05:16something like that Celsius, which is quite a lot. It's almost a whole Celsius change.
05:21Yeah. Like it's, it's, uh, it's pretty big. It's pretty big. And wow. Couple of, just a couple
05:29of degrees Celsius affects, can affect species that live in water. So this is, yeah. Well,
05:35if we turn that into the human side, it's the same thing. Like we've been avoiding
05:391.5. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Absolutely. It's a lot. And is it affecting the
05:45whole region then? So all the countries that are close to the Panama Canal? Yeah.
05:51Well, this will affect the, the, the, cause like, cause fish, fish really spawn in
05:56like a very small section. Coral regions is in a very small section of the ocean.
06:00Most of it is just, it's just empty with plankton rolling along or different, uh, different types
06:08of like, uh, um, uh, what are they called? Like not, not the jellyfish, but the other
06:13ones, I forget their name, but whatever. And so, yeah, this, this could affect the entire
06:19region. Uh, if, but it's, it's all depending, like from what all, a lot of what I see, they're
06:26like, we could say what's going on. We're not 100% sure. Right. Because you could, you
06:32could say it's definitely global warming probably has something to do with it. Right. Climate
06:37change has something to do with it. The winds have a big, big thing to do with it. I was
06:42reading the article and it talked about how the wind, the wind is, uh, resting a lot more,
06:49right. The, the Northern winds that they get is like, it's CC a lot more. And so that's affecting
06:55it. And there was another thing about the wind that was affecting it as well. Uh, another
06:59statistic about it, but I don't remember what it was. And so all of this is, is all of this
07:05like, uh, leads to the same conclusion, like different temperature, different, uh, different
07:10degree of nutrients in the water for the species to eat different, uh, different spawning for
07:16plankton and then so on and so on. And chain reaction, right. Uh, the butterfly effect or whatever.
07:21Uh, so that's, that's, that's, that's really intense. Yeah. I can imagine it also going
07:29to affect migration, like, you know, migration of the species there, which might be a bigger
07:37issue. Like, will they try again next year or are they just going to change routes? Not
07:42sure how animals work in that sense, but right. If there's nothing to eat in this whole, like
07:46trajectory of the migration, will they avoid that route? Uh, exactly. I don't know how
07:52quick adaptation is. Right. Right. Uh, I, I don't know either. They're saying that they
07:58might have to just switch the, the types of fish that are fished and stuff like that.
08:03So like people are on the lookout. It's something to be aware of, I guess, and see if the pattern
08:11Yeah. Hopefully it's like a one-off thing that just happened this year, which has been a really
08:16out of pocket year for lack of a better word. It's been a strange year. Yeah. That's so weird.
08:23Well, if you are a marine biologist or someone that understands these kinds of things, please
08:27reach out to us. We'd love to get more into what this means and also what it means. You said that
08:32the winds are more stagnant, right? What does this mean for renewable energy in the, in the form of
08:38wind farms and things like that? So if you know any of these topics, reach out to us, uh, podcast
08:44at tangeliclife.org and we'd love to have you on. Yes. Yes. Cause this is like a thing called upwelling
08:50or like the, the cold, the cold water moves upwards and stuff like that. Like this is something
08:55completely beyond my expert expertise that caught my eye. And that's the whole point of the segment,
08:59right? Like, see, talk about it. And then hopefully we'll get someone on that actually
09:04knows what they're talking about. Exactly. Yeah. But it is important to know what's happening
09:08because it is, I think it's something climate anomalies are something that we've been warned
09:14about for so long and they look very different depending on the context, right? Like a really
09:21different kind of natural disaster that a region used to not experience. They're experiencing it now.
09:27That's a bit more, I guess, tangible. It's more visual, but these kinds of things are things
09:32that happen kind of in their own silo. So they're really hard to pinpoint. One of the things that I,
09:37that I think like this was hard to pinpoint is like people are like, this is one of the most stable
09:43things that has been happening year to year when it comes to, when it comes to just like these, uh,
09:48these, these movements of water and the movements of air. And so right now people are just sort of like,
09:53well, who knows, who knows that will happen next year. Hopefully. Um, yeah, no, it's a weird one.
10:03Yeah. Yeah. I think these are the kinds of natural incidents that we keep hearing are going to happen,
10:10but right under our noses. Yes, absolutely. That's pretty scary. Well, it's a good news that nations
10:16can now sue each other for climate damages. So basically what happened is that the international
10:25court of justice issued an unanimous advisory opinion stating that every country has a binding
10:32legal obligation to prevent significant harm to the climate system, whether or not they've signed
10:39specific climate treaties. So Kyoto out of the water, Paris out of the water, it doesn't matter
10:47if you've signed it or not. If you're failing to act on greenhouse gas emissions, it might be considered
10:55institutionally a wrong act and you might get prosecuted by the ICJ as a nation.
11:01So what, what is the, what the damages would be, um, I imagine it'd be like some sort of economical
11:08compensation that, that would go directly towards alleviating this. I would, I would think.
11:14Well, so they haven't said how they're actually going to handle it. This is an opinion.
11:18So the ICJ, unless you bring a case to them, they can't really act on it. So it's not legally binding,
11:24but it carries substantial political and moral force, potentially laying the groundwork for future
11:29interstate climate litigation. Cause you can pinpoint, for example, the, if you have a country
11:36or various countries in a region that share a river and you can track the pollution of that river to
11:42one specific country, then you can bring in a lawsuit against that country because they're harming this
11:48river that you all use. That that's interesting because I've seen, I've seen like the graph of
11:53like contamination from the, from China and Russia and how an airstream carries it basically from
11:59there to the United States. Right. And so could that, might that be something that, that we don't know.
12:06It's going to be, it's going to be really interesting to see how this is used going into the future.
12:10Now we have to keep an eye on it. And something I'm really interested in is that the responsibility
12:16is also going to include the actions of private companies operating within the nation's jurisdiction.
12:21Good. So that might put some companies, hopefully improving their ESGs and CSR work.
12:29Yeah. Yeah. Because we could get prosecuted.
12:32Get them in hot water a little bit and see how they, see how that, see how that goes.
12:38Yeah. And there's something in climate, just climate discourse in general,
12:43that's called the common, but differentiated responsibility. This came in during the Kyoto
12:47protocols. And it's basically like, we all have a common responsibility to do better for the climate,
12:54but differentiated responsibility, right? Some countries have more responsibility than others.
13:00The way to know that is semantics, really. Like if you are a country that has polluted for years,
13:08do you have more responsibility because you kickstarted this or are you a country that pollutes a lot now?
13:13So you have more responsibility. It's hard to pinpoint what that is. I think these kinds of
13:20legislations at an international level help us figure that out. Right. So if you can take a nation
13:27to court, now you have to actually create a case of why they are responsible for the thing you're taking
13:34them to. Right. Which is something we haven't been able to do before. I'm just a bit worried.
13:38Name it. Name the thing that is happening and why. Why it's bad. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah.
13:46It's very interesting. And I think because the ICJ deals with a lot of human rights issues.
13:53So I am particularly excited because I'm a social person. So if we can track climate change issues,
14:01pollution issues to harm on individuals and communities, then we can take it to the ICJ
14:09because there's a violation of human rights happening because say the quality of air is
14:15so bad that people are dying from lung diseases and respiratory health complications and these kinds
14:21of things. That's an actual case that you can bring up now. Yes. Yeah.
14:25Mm hmm. Yeah. OK. So that's really exciting. And so it's it's it's so these these would be
14:32international or could it be like within like if there's a certain group affected inside of a nation,
14:39I imagine there's other mechanisms for that. Right. Right. So that's the thing. So the ICJ is
14:44international, but I think opening it up to the fact that nations could sue each other means that
14:49locals can sue their own nation. Right. OK. Right. Because that's like a class action. Yes.
14:56And also I would imagine it extends to private companies in that sense. So countries now are not
15:02only responsible for their own emissions, but also regulating corporate emissions, which creates a new
15:08avenue for targeting producers indirectly. Because if you are going to operate within a certain
15:15jurisdiction, you're going to have to follow this because now there's the liability that you might
15:21be taken to the ICJ. Right. Right. OK. Which is quite interesting. That's interesting. I hope it's
15:28used as a tool for good. Right. Because like you're saying, like if if it's used by especially if it's
15:33used by people who are being affected, then it's it's it's great that you can have this the backing of
15:38something that is big and legitimate. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And you see a lot in academic literature
15:46talks about ecocide and it's really hard to pinpoint what counts as ecocide. So it's basically
15:52genocide, but for the environment, you know, ecological genocide. And it's hard to pinpoint who's
15:59responsible for that. Right. Because you have communities that still cut down trees because
16:04they need it for wood fire and for powering up different things in their in their communities.
16:11Right. But they have completely deforested the whole area. So is that ecocide? It's a hard one.
16:21Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you could say it's ecocide, but out of necessity, you could say that.
16:26Right. Exactly. And I think that's where people get a little where it gets a bit sticky when we talk
16:33about actual legal litigation around climate change, because some of the climate harms we are
16:40doing are out of necessity. Some of them are unbeknownst to us. So you might some new research
16:47might come out that this thing we did five years ago is actually really bad. So then can you get
16:52persecuted in hindsight? Hmm. Right. And how how do you know that the people that did it didn't know
17:00that this was a possibility? Ah, right. Because a lot of projects are, oh, there's a percentage
17:06that this could happen, but we've done all the things for it not to happen. And then it happens.
17:10And it's like, well, but we didn't mean for it to happen. Does that count in climate litigation?
17:15The fact that you didn't intend for something to go wrong? Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of conversations
17:20around, you know, the semantics around it and everything. But I think it's a big step because
17:25as climate change keeps moving down in the priorities of the national agenda,
17:30I think bringing it into an international framework that can actually get prosecuted,
17:35prosecuted, sorry, could be a way forward for international cooperation, which we are severely
17:41lacking. Yeah, that is in the climate. That is true. Right. I feel like I feel like I'm not a huge
17:48like fan of like international institutions, but like something for the legal framework and something
17:53that is that is there to basically to to help the people at the lowest at the lowest right at the
18:01lowest common denominator. I think that's never a bad thing, really. Yeah. And I want to see how this
18:08is going to be used. Like, I want to see what's what's going to be the first thing that happens with this.
18:13Me too. I want to see how it pans out because there's also because it's an advisory guidance
18:19and it's not enforceable necessarily. What I presume will happen is that it's likely going to inform
18:25national and regional climate litigation. So bringing it back down to Canada regions to
18:32their country because of X, Y and Z. But it also makes climate science legally actionable because a lot
18:39of times climate science is just stats that we see in our reports. So if scientists said that this was
18:45going to happen and it's happened, we might be able to prosecute a couple of people. You know,
18:52if we had to stay under 1.5 and we can track it back to this nation or this company were part of the
18:59reason we couldn't get there, they might be in a bit of hot water. Maybe if we could actually trace it
19:04back to them, which is exactly. And I think that's where it gets muddy, but hopefully we'll figure out
19:12how it's going to look. I will follow this very closely because I'm really interested in how it's
19:16going to work.
19:17Yeah, send me updates. I want to know about this.
19:19I will do. Yeah. And there's also the other thing that it's talked about in COP at the Conference of
19:25the Parties. It's talked about in terms of the adaptation fund, that countries that are already
19:30facing loss and damage, like low lying islands, the Maldives are a good example of that.
19:37Pirabadi, Tuvalu, they may now have some legal ways to demand compensation and adaptation support.
19:43Right, right. Because if you are an island nation that is suffering from high levels of sea rise
19:52and you're losing territory and you can trace that back to X, Y, or Z, then that might be a new way to
19:59demand compensation and adaptation. Right. Especially since we've been so slow at operationalizing
20:06the funds that we have for climate adaptation at an international scale. Absolutely. And the idea
20:12that it could be, the compensation could be, hey, you're going to help us with the infrastructure
20:17to adapt instead of like maybe necessarily some monetary thing is actually, you know,
20:22that the more action and less money there is to direct money, right? It makes it slightly less
20:29corrupt, right? It makes everything slightly less corrupt. Exactly.
20:33So that, that's, that's pretty cool. I think, I think that if this can be used to help,
20:38to help, uh, the adaptation towards these, these, these things that are happening, then,
20:45but that, that, that is going to, this example that you've gave is going to be a hard one because
20:49who, who is your, who are you going to direct that, that, who are you going to levy the,
20:53the blame towards for that? Yeah, that's her next. Ooh.
20:57Ooh. I think that's her next thing to figure out. Yeah. You know, now, now the ICJ has said
21:03there's a framework. So how do we use it? Who do we use it for? And also, again, this is something
21:09I've said a couple of times on this podcast. Humans are so good at coming up with good tools
21:15and it's just about how we use them. Yeah. You know, this sounds like a great idea. We've had a lot
21:19of great ideas that have turned out to be quite murky. So I want to hold out hope that this is a good
21:24idea that you can't really weaponize. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, because there is so much
21:33that goes behind being able to bring a case to the ICJ. Right. Do you know that I want to think
21:42it's a harder process to corrupt at least, you know, I think the last thing that was brought to
21:47the ICJ in recent months was, um, from South Africa about what's happening in Israel and Palestine.
21:54Oh, okay. Because human rights violations and everything with what's happening with the
21:59conflict. Yes, yes. You can't just like, think of it and just go, you know, and knock at their doors.
22:05There's, there's a law that goes into it. And most times, it's not just one country doing it. So I want
22:11to think if countries agree on something, it's so in the United Nations, the Security Council is
22:18probably the only organism that can do things that are legally binding, and the ICJ. So I want to hold
22:27out hope, guys, I want to be a little hopeful. So this is this is basically extending one of the two
22:32tools that actually seems to be effective, and do something. Because a lot because like you say,
22:37like, yeah, a lot of these are a lot of the international organizations just sort of exist as a
22:42is a moral. Hmm. Hmm. Yeah, well, they exist to really strongly encourage us to do the right
22:50thing. And that's basically what this is. You know, the ICJ is strongly encouraging that you do these
22:56things. But it's strongly encouraging it. So you don't get, you know, prosecuted.
23:04So, okay, so is there like, would there be like a statute of limitations on this? Because I could
23:09see, like, if you're in an island that's losing territory, right, a coast that's losing territory,
23:13it's like, well, everyone that participated, everybody that was heavily into the the industrial
23:18revolution, should the should compensate us. That would be, that would be, I, I don't even,
23:26I don't even know if I think they should win that lawsuit. I just think it's interesting.
23:31You know, I just think it's an interesting thought. Well, that's the thing. It gets hard.
23:34Climate reparations are really hard. There is some, it's a similar conversation to reparations
23:39on other atrocities that have happened around the world. And those can be traced to actual
23:45people. Climate change can't necessarily. What I do worry about with the statute of limitation
23:51is that point about harm. If a project is carried out or an action is done and we find out later
23:59that it did harm, can you still prosecute that? Yes, exactly. How many years into the future can
24:07you prosecute it in hindsight? Right. And we, we know, we know that, we know that, that companies
24:12do it sometimes knowing the risks and knowing the downsides of it, and they still do it and, and
24:19countries do it as well. Right. They, they, they just don't, don't care, especially countries that are
24:24more, um, tend more towards national control of things. So yeah. But there's also the other side
24:31with countries that don't necessarily have, or organizations that don't necessarily have
24:36the research and the data. Yeah. Right. So you can, you could literally just make a mistake,
24:42but does that absolve you from the mistake you've done? I think part of it, part of the equation has to
24:48be capability to, to even do anything about it. Right. Yeah. If they don't have the resources to
24:55not contaminate and they also don't have the resources to compensate you, then sorry, but
25:02you're sort of out of luck. Yeah. And it's one of those, I can imagine some of these cases to start
25:09with might just be to set an example. I can imagine it'll be something that is used just to show like,
25:14Hey, even if this lawsuit isn't won, we were making an example out of this situation. You know,
25:22I think it's something friends of the earth and client earth are two really good organizations
25:28that I absolutely adore. And even if they don't win a case, they're raising awareness about there
25:34is this issue that has a legal basis to be fought on. Yeah. Right. Winning it is like the last stretch,
25:40but the whole process of battling it and creating the case and going to court and debating it, that
25:47whole process creates awareness around an issue. Yep. Buzz. Winning it is just a cherry on top a lot of
25:55times, especially in climate litigation. It can, it can get murky quickly. Yeah. So maybe this is a new
26:02awareness racing moment. Hopefully, hopefully it's something it's a, hopefully it is something,
26:07you know, it's not, it's something. Exactly. Hopefully. Well, any final remarks?
26:15What a year. What a year it's been. What a year. I'm so sorry guys. We are a lot lower energy today.
26:24It's just, it's a news episode. The news are a bit crazy in climate and outside. Um, we just hope
26:30everyone's well and taking care of yourselves and our next episode is actually going to be really fun
26:37and really upbeat. So you are going to thank us for this chill one this week. Yeah. And it was a chill
26:44episode. I think it's a chill episode. We're just chatting. We're doing the proper podcast. Yeah.
26:50This is what podcasters do. They just chat, they hit record and have a chat for more of this.
26:55Yeah. Well, our next episode will be a deep dive. And if you have any ideas of things we should deep
27:07dive into, send us, send it our way again, podcast at tangeliclife.org. Also on our webpage,
27:13you'll be able to find the resources from all these news, some of our comments and points that we've
27:19discussed today. Tangeliclife.org slash Tangelic Talks. And we'll catch you guys on the next one.
27:25Toodles.
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