- 2 days ago
🌍 Is it too late to stop climate collapse—or are we just too slow?
In this urgent episode of Tangelic Talks, co-hosts Victoria Cornelio & Jensen Cummings sit down with Dr. Ioannis Tsipouridis, a 45-year renewable energy veteran, to unpack the brutal truth behind fossil fuel subsidies, climate inaction, and the global fight for renewables.
💡 Key Topics:
💸 $7 trillion in fossil fuel subsidies
⚠️ Why the Global South pays the highest price
☀️ Solar energy’s untapped potential in Africa
🌍 Green colonialism & false climate solutions
🎓 Advice for next-gen energy leaders
🧠 Dr. Tsipouridis brings decades of experience from Greece to Kenya, exposing how climate negotiations fail and what real action looks like on the ground.
📌 Timestamps:
00:00–01:02 Too Little, Too Late? A Grim Start to the Climate Reality
01:03–02:52 Meet Dr. Tsipouridis: From Fossil Fuels to Solar Pioneer
02:53–04:46 Why Solar Made Sense in the '70s—and Still Does Today
04:47–07:12 Who’s Holding Us Back? Fossil Fuel Subsidies, Markets & Politics
07:13–09:37 Climate Crisis is Now: COP, 1.5°C, and the Window That’s Closing
09:38–12:00 Wind Energy in Greece & Lessons from the Early Renewable Push
12:01–15:22 Fighting Pseudoscience: Ice Cubes, Misinformation & Lost Trust
15:23–18:13 Kenya & the Global South: Power, Passion, But No Money
18:14–22:03 The 100% Renewable Possibility—Why It’s Logical and Necessary
22:04–29:56 From Just Transition to Loss & Damage: Equity, Justice, and Hope
29:57–30:31 Final Statement and Closing
✨ Explore More:
🌐 Website: www.TangelicLife.org
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tangeliclife/
🐦 Twitter/X: https://x.com/Tangelic_
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tangelic/
👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tangelic.org
💬 Tell us below: Who should be held accountable for climate delays—and how do we break the cycle?
🌱 Love what we do? Help us grow and keep creating impactful content! Support our mission and be part of the change: TangelicLife.org
📲 Don’t forget to Like, Comment & Subscribe for more weekly expert conversations on climate, energy, and equity!
🔖 #TooLittleTooLate #FossilFuelSubsidies #ClimateCollapse #TangelicTalks #GreenwashingExposed #ClimateJusticeNow #ActOnClimate #RenewablesForAfrica #SolarEnergyNow #ClimateTruth #CleanEnergyLeadership #SystemicInjustice #GlobalSouthSolutions #LossAndDamage #GreenColonialism #DrTsipouridis #JustTransition #EnergyEquity #ClimateActionNow #EndFossilWelfare #WindAndSolarNow
In this urgent episode of Tangelic Talks, co-hosts Victoria Cornelio & Jensen Cummings sit down with Dr. Ioannis Tsipouridis, a 45-year renewable energy veteran, to unpack the brutal truth behind fossil fuel subsidies, climate inaction, and the global fight for renewables.
💡 Key Topics:
💸 $7 trillion in fossil fuel subsidies
⚠️ Why the Global South pays the highest price
☀️ Solar energy’s untapped potential in Africa
🌍 Green colonialism & false climate solutions
🎓 Advice for next-gen energy leaders
🧠 Dr. Tsipouridis brings decades of experience from Greece to Kenya, exposing how climate negotiations fail and what real action looks like on the ground.
📌 Timestamps:
00:00–01:02 Too Little, Too Late? A Grim Start to the Climate Reality
01:03–02:52 Meet Dr. Tsipouridis: From Fossil Fuels to Solar Pioneer
02:53–04:46 Why Solar Made Sense in the '70s—and Still Does Today
04:47–07:12 Who’s Holding Us Back? Fossil Fuel Subsidies, Markets & Politics
07:13–09:37 Climate Crisis is Now: COP, 1.5°C, and the Window That’s Closing
09:38–12:00 Wind Energy in Greece & Lessons from the Early Renewable Push
12:01–15:22 Fighting Pseudoscience: Ice Cubes, Misinformation & Lost Trust
15:23–18:13 Kenya & the Global South: Power, Passion, But No Money
18:14–22:03 The 100% Renewable Possibility—Why It’s Logical and Necessary
22:04–29:56 From Just Transition to Loss & Damage: Equity, Justice, and Hope
29:57–30:31 Final Statement and Closing
✨ Explore More:
🌐 Website: www.TangelicLife.org
📸 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tangeliclife/
🐦 Twitter/X: https://x.com/Tangelic_
💼 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tangelic/
👍 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tangelic.org
💬 Tell us below: Who should be held accountable for climate delays—and how do we break the cycle?
🌱 Love what we do? Help us grow and keep creating impactful content! Support our mission and be part of the change: TangelicLife.org
📲 Don’t forget to Like, Comment & Subscribe for more weekly expert conversations on climate, energy, and equity!
🔖 #TooLittleTooLate #FossilFuelSubsidies #ClimateCollapse #TangelicTalks #GreenwashingExposed #ClimateJusticeNow #ActOnClimate #RenewablesForAfrica #SolarEnergyNow #ClimateTruth #CleanEnergyLeadership #SystemicInjustice #GlobalSouthSolutions #LossAndDamage #GreenColonialism #DrTsipouridis #JustTransition #EnergyEquity #ClimateActionNow #EndFossilWelfare #WindAndSolarNow
Category
📚
LearningTranscript
00:00Floods, drought, everything is going to get worse, so it is too little too late, it is too little too late.
00:06We've already, we're losing the battle.
00:09The Global South is still trying to recover from colonization, but colonization has not ended yet.
00:18We haven't moved an inch, more than three quarters of our energy still comes from fossil fuels.
00:30This podcast can set a green, tell me as a suggestion that combines an upbeat and abiding spirit without any background music.
00:37Welcome to Tangelic Talks, your go-to podcast from Tangelic, where we dive into the vibrant world of clean energy, development, sustainability, and climate change in Africa.
00:47We bring you inspiring stories, insightful discussions, and groundbreaking innovations from the continent making waves in the global community.
00:55Tune in and join the conversation toward a brighter, greener future.
00:59Let's get started.
01:03Welcome to Tangelic Talks, a podcast at the intersection of energy, equity, and empowerment with your co-host, Victoria Cornelio, and myself, Jensen Cummings.
01:12In today's episode, we find out if it's too little too late on climate change with Dr. Ionis Tsipuridis.
01:21Dr. Tsipuridis is a pioneer of renewable energy.
01:25He's an activist, a professor, with over 45 years of global experience, from building Greece's first wind and solar installations, to advising climate strategy across sub-Saharan Africa.
01:38A vocal advocate for immediate climate action and fossil fuel phase-out, he currently leads renewable initiatives in Kenya.
01:45Dr. Tsipuridis, thanks for being with us.
01:48Welcome.
01:49My pleasure.
01:50Happy to be here.
01:51All right.
01:52So, there's so many directions we could take this conversation, because 45 years of experience, you've done so much.
01:59You've been at the leading edge for so long.
02:01But I want to maybe go all the way back.
02:03What was the spark that got you interested to getting on this path of renewable energy?
02:08Where did that start for you?
02:10I will attribute it to Greenpeace.
02:13Oh.
02:14There was one of those cartoons by Greenpeace.
02:17I don't know if you've seen it.
02:19I still have it in one of my email accounts.
02:23So, there is this guy sitting behind the desk with a big cigar.
02:27And he says, you want fuel?
02:29We own the wells.
02:30You want nuclear?
02:32We own uranium.
02:33You want solar?
02:35We own...
02:36Solar is not working.
02:38So, that worked for me.
02:42Wow.
02:44So, I decided, yeah.
02:46I'm a chemical engineer.
02:48My first degree is chemical engineering.
02:51And my future was into fossil fuels.
02:55And that was a prospect that I really did not like so much.
03:00So, I was open to stimuli.
03:02I read the book by Schumacher, Small is Beautiful.
03:06I read the book by Alvin Toffler, The Future's Shock.
03:10And then this Greenpeace activist, and that changed my mind.
03:15And then I turned it to solar energy.
03:18I did my PhD in solar energy starting in 1978.
03:21And never looked back at fossil fuels.
03:24And still, I don't want to look at them.
03:27That's amazing.
03:28And that's so formative.
03:30I think it's really hard to pinpoint a time.
03:33And you even have a visual for the time that you changed your mind.
03:37And you chose solar at a time where renewables weren't part of the mainstream conversation.
03:42So, how did you see its potential before most people did?
03:46Well, it's amazing.
03:48People already knew about solar.
03:50I mean, scientists.
03:51They knew the capacity that solar had.
03:54I mean, even then, there was a graphic showing that a dot in the Sahara desert
04:01could satisfy the needs of a planet of 10 billion people with USA consumption.
04:07And that really grabs your imagination.
04:10So, it's okay.
04:11It's there.
04:12We know we cannot take it all at once.
04:14But the potential is there.
04:16So, why not do it?
04:17Yeah.
04:18And I can imagine there were many challenges.
04:20And this still holds true.
04:21The latest narrative from solar is that every one hour, enough energy comes to the planet
04:35to power all our needs for a whole year.
04:39So, the capacity is enormous.
04:40Okay.
04:41So, it's there for everybody.
04:43So, why can't we do it?
04:45Where's the challenge?
04:46What's holding us back?
04:47First of all, technically, we cannot do such a huge monstrosity.
04:51Okay.
04:52We have to go in smaller plans.
04:54We can do it.
04:55What's holding us back?
04:56The market is holding us back.
04:58People like Trump are holding us back.
05:00People who don't like renewables are holding us back.
05:03Fossil fuels are holding us back.
05:06Every year, fossil fuel industries receive subsidies of up to $7 trillion.
05:16Yeah.
05:17And this is not something that's said by activists or anarchists or terrorists.
05:25It's said by the IMF, the horse's mouth.
05:30They say it.
05:31So, if you get on top of your profits, you get $7 trillion in subsidies, would you stop
05:38pumping oil?
05:39Of course, it's drill baby drill.
05:41There's so much money over there.
05:42Yeah.
05:43And to think these companies are basically on welfare and then we turn around and people
05:48who are on welfare are the problem.
05:50But these companies and subsidies are welfare that we're paying for.
05:55I mentioned it in the open.
05:57I said, too little, too late.
05:58Very daunting title of this episode.
06:01But it's something that you said.
06:02So, I'm interested in that because I can tell you still have excitements and optimism,
06:09yet you're also looking through a lens of saying we're doing too little, too late potentially.
06:13So, what are the most urgent actions that we can and should be taking today?
06:18Either from a global policy standpoint, from commerce and business, from subsidies or from an individual?
06:27How do you think about kind of the actions we need to be taking?
06:30The action needed is global.
06:32I mean, we have to stop bringing all the guilt to the individual.
06:37You didn't pick up your Coca-Cola, sorry, I shouldn't say, your soda can and put it in.
06:42No.
06:43No.
06:44No.
06:45The action needed is global.
06:46And fossil fuels have to stop pumping yesterday.
06:51Okay?
06:52The planet has already surpassed the 1.5.
06:56The holy grail of the climate movement, you know, 1.5 limit, we surpassed that.
07:032024, as a year, was above 1.5.
07:07Of course, to really make it, it has to be a 10-year period.
07:112024 was there.
07:13There was a gallop among leading climate scientists, a lot of them.
07:19The majority agreed, they said that the temperature will stop at 2.5 and above.
07:252.5 is hell on Earth.
07:28And we're continuing to pump oil, fossil gas, fossil oil, fossil coal.
07:35We're bringing CO2 trapped in the caves of our planet millions of years ago and we're adding it to the atmosphere.
07:45Carbon dioxide lasts for at least a thousand years.
07:49So we're just adding, nothing is removed.
07:53Yeah.
07:54So CO2 continues to rise, temperature continues to rise.
07:58People in Texas were, I can't really find words to describe what happened in Texas.
08:05Fires in the whole of the Mediterranean, floods, drought, everything is going to get worse.
08:11So it is too little too late.
08:13It is too little too late.
08:15We've already, we're losing the battle.
08:18Unless we act yesterday.
08:20But you see the COP30 is in a few months.
08:24Let's talk again after COP30.
08:26You'll see that the compromises will be made there.
08:29And what do we say to those who argue you can't decouple from fossil fuels?
08:34It's built into our infrastructure at every level.
08:38How do we then flip that switch to renewables when we're not at that scale?
08:42Let's look at it on the technological aspect and not the funding.
08:45Funding is a play game.
08:47They can do it if they want.
08:49This question is valid.
08:51If you ask me this question, today is valid.
08:53We cannot do it tomorrow.
08:54Sure.
08:55But because I'm as old as I look, this question has been thrown at me 40 years ago
09:00and 30 years ago and 20 years ago.
09:03If we had started then, it would have been done by now.
09:07Okay?
09:08So if we start today, it will be done in 10 years.
09:11But if we never start, it will never be done.
09:14The climate crisis is here and is here to stay.
09:18It's not COVID.
09:19We're not waiting for an injection to work it out of our system.
09:24It's going to stay for decades.
09:26The longer we take the measures, the more decades it would last.
09:30Yeah.
09:31You were at COP21.
09:33You mentioned COP30 coming up.
09:36Connect the dots for us.
09:37What happened there?
09:39And especially, you know, the United States not being a part of that conversation.
09:44The conversations that's coming up at COP30, how are you connecting those dots?
09:48What do you see happening?
09:49What has not happened?
09:50What needs to happen coming out of that COP30 conversation?
09:53COP21, as everybody knows, is a really emblematic COP.
09:57It really gave hope.
09:59And it was thanks to Barack.
10:02He really took the lead there.
10:04Let me say that in the previous COP, he failed to see what he should have done.
10:08But he did it in Denmark.
10:10He failed.
10:11But in Paris, he did it.
10:12Great.
10:13If we were, if I could show you a graph, how CO2 keeps increasing with every COP.
10:20It's a decimal.
10:22Nothing changes.
10:24CO2 continues to increase.
10:26Temperature continues to increase.
10:28We go to COPs, we greet each other, we drink our wine.
10:32People, there are scientists who really try their best.
10:35But in every COP, there are more fossil fuel lobbyists than actual delegates.
10:40They're in their thousands, two and three thousands.
10:43They're there to make a dent in people's belief, in people's, how strong they feel about pursuing a cause.
10:53So really, everything is wishful thinking.
10:56Oh, we will, we shall.
10:58We never do.
10:59Okay.
11:00Everything is done too little, too late.
11:03Yeah.
11:04And there's a lot of systemic issues that just cannot, if we were able to tackle them,
11:09we wouldn't be having this conversation right now, right?
11:12We would have solved it by now.
11:14But back in 1991, if that's correct, you co-founded the Wind Energy Association of Greece.
11:20Yes.
11:21And I can imagine you were having a lot of these conversations back then as well.
11:25So what were the biggest challenges and opportunities in advocating for wind power at that time?
11:31Well, we formed the association, but wind power had started already six, seven years before that.
11:38So wind energy was already advancing in Greece.
11:42Yeah.
11:43I was, I was an engineer at the public power corporation of Greece.
11:47We had already installed a number of wind turbines, even small wind parks, we were very proud of.
11:53And so it was actually the events that forced the formation of the association.
11:58It was mostly engineers and scientists from the universities.
12:02It was a great event and we kept it.
12:05We still there.
12:06It's still there.
12:07The association, I'm not there, but the association is there.
12:09The challenges came later when we saw that we cannot really do as much as we wanted.
12:15Bureaucracy and regulations, regulations and bureaucracy, something was always holding back.
12:20They are not going to relinquish the first spot that they have not so easily.
12:27There is a lot of money to be lost.
12:29So they will continue to fight.
12:31So they delayed the development.
12:33So you ask the question, but we cannot really replace fossil fuels tomorrow.
12:38Of course we can.
12:39But if we had started in 1991, today would have been a 100th renewable worth.
12:44It's possible.
12:45Technically it's possible.
12:47And when you're in these rooms and you're having these conversations, how do you keep it together?
12:53Because it sounds really like you have the data, you have the graphs, you have everything.
13:00Everything's there and people are looking you dead in the eyes.
13:04You are professional.
13:05That is exactly what you're talking about saying, oh, no, sorry, we can't do this right now.
13:09Well, you know, it happens.
13:10I mean, I don't want to really use USA examples, but a lot of the people these days talking in USA that really don't know what they're saying, but people believe them.
13:22Okay.
13:23Yeah.
13:24I mean, half of the cabinet is Fox News spokesman.
13:27So, I mean, for crying out loud.
13:29I mean, I saw a video from a congressman who said, what are you talking about melting glaciers?
13:37When my ice cubes melts in my drink, the water does not overflow.
13:42Of course it doesn't.
13:43That's not a glacier.
13:44A glacier is on a mountain.
13:46You can find the video.
13:48I mean, science is missing in the discussion.
13:51It's hearsay, it's fake news, it's influencers, it's social media, social media, social media.
13:59I think science has lost that battle.
14:01Yeah.
14:02He has lost it.
14:03But a lot of people feel put off by science, either by the jargon or it's hard to understand.
14:10The white papers, the concept notes, it's so dry, it's so boring.
14:13So how do we help people come in and actually understand what is being said?
14:18Because there's always, you know, the academic elite and all this stuff.
14:22How do we bring people in?
14:24How do we get them to understand?
14:26That's a good point.
14:27But I think a lot of scientists are doing their best to make it more easily understandable.
14:33You know, the narrative is more simple and more interesting and actually is more scary.
14:41I mean, it is scary nowadays.
14:44The world my children and my grandchildren are going to live in is going to be completely different.
14:50And in the end, there's going to be a social breakdown.
14:54So the video I was watching for preparedness has some valid points.
14:58There will be a social breakdown.
15:01Society cannot withstand all these pressures.
15:04I think the problem is that we have not learned people to love education and to pay attention to education, to love books.
15:10Now, these days, this is totally love.
15:12Nobody reads a book.
15:13I mean, you know, we all have a screen in front of us and we enjoy it.
15:18So...
15:19Yeah.
15:20No, I may sound pessimistic.
15:22I'm not pessimistic.
15:23See the young students here that are so, so passionate, so active.
15:28So, yeah.
15:29Yeah.
15:30Yeah.
15:31And that's something I wanted to get into.
15:32I like your point about, yeah, the white papers might be boring, but if you're interested
15:37and passionate, you will try to read them and understand them, right?
15:40It's a two way street.
15:42Scientists are trying to make it accessible.
15:44We're trying to understand it, but you're at this intersection, right?
15:47You work with students, you're at the university.
15:50How do you communicate to this younger generation?
15:53How do you tell them, from your experiences, how they can break into this sector and maybe,
15:59hopefully, make a difference?
16:01First of all, I talk to them the way I talk to you.
16:04First of all, okay?
16:05Perfect.
16:06Of course, I have presentations with lots of data, lots of...
16:10Science is the only thing we have.
16:12And science does not leave any room for doubt.
16:15Actually, it does, because science never says 100%.
16:17Science says there's 79% possibility this will happen, or 80%, 90%.
16:22Or 39%, but what it says is there, okay?
16:27And, unfortunately, that battle was lost when we failed to teach people to believe in science
16:35and try to understand science.
16:37It's a little late on that, but the new generation, I think, a lot of young people are interested
16:42in what's happening.
16:43They realize that climate crisis is upon them, and they will demand solutions.
16:50And I hope they will demand it sooner rather than later.
16:54Yeah.
16:55And what drove you to Kenya, then?
16:56How come you are teaching there and living there and getting involved in, I would imagine,
17:01the renewable energy sector there?
17:03My fields are renewable energy and climate science, or climate talks.
17:09I was given a contract by a contractor to study the renewable energy market in Sub-Saharan Africa in 2018.
17:22So, I came, I did my study, then COVID came, so they stopped the contract, but I loved the country.
17:31I was, you know, I met the universities, I got the invitation, so I stayed on, so I'm here.
17:37Yeah.
17:38And do you see a different way that people are talking about renewables in, for example,
17:45Sub-Saharan Africa compared to maybe in Greece, in Europe, in the quote-unquote Western world?
17:50Is there a difference in the way we speak about it?
17:53Yes, here they understand better the small applications, the mini-grid, the micro-grid, the rural applications.
18:03Whereas in Europe, we're really looking at the big plants.
18:06Of course, that is a big, big movement with solar, you know, roof solar and all that.
18:12But the market players are looking at big plants.
18:16And we need big plants, there's no question about it.
18:18I mean, we have to be able to cover 100% of the electricity and not only electricity.
18:25Yeah, but we're very far from that.
18:28If I can give you a piece of information here, can I?
18:31Please.
18:32Yes, please.
18:33Okay.
18:34There is an indicator called total final energy consumption.
18:40Total final energy consumption is how much energy the planet, our system,
18:47uses every year and what sources are used for that energy to be produced.
18:54Fifteen years ago, 79% was fossil fuels.
18:59Ten years ago, 80% was fossil fuels.
19:04Two years ago, 79% is still fossil fuels.
19:08We haven't moved an inch.
19:11More than three quarters of our energy still comes from fossil fuels.
19:16So how do you obtain this?
19:18How do you overturn this?
19:20Remember the trillions of subsidies.
19:22Of course.
19:23But what gives you hope to stay in this sector?
19:25Because you've been working in renewables for 45 years.
19:28So what is the thing that keeps telling you it's worth the cost, it's worth doing it?
19:33Do you have any experiences or case studies you can share with us where you've seen the tangible impacts?
19:39Because it's the only logical solution, renewables.
19:42I don't want to sound like a crusader, but it's the only logical solution.
19:46It's the most environmentally friendly.
19:48Everybody has renewables.
19:50You don't need wars to wage wars to secure your sources.
19:57Wind flows over Iran, and after Iran, it flows over Israel, and then it comes down to Kenya.
20:03It's the same.
20:05Everybody has renewable energy.
20:07It's abundant.
20:08It's inexhaustible.
20:09It's cheap.
20:11It's the most environmentally friendly.
20:14The environmental disadvantages are minute, but you need energy.
20:19You have to have something.
20:20It's the only logical solution, and it can give 100%.
20:24It can.
20:25It will.
20:26So isn't that reasonable enough to go after it?
20:30I absolutely love the passion that you have for this.
20:34I can imagine being in one of your lectures like this, feeling inspired and wanting to take up this daunting task.
20:43You mentioned something, kind of the juxtaposition of maybe the approach when it comes to, let's say, the global north versus the global south.
20:53More specifically, we mentioned Europe and talking about Kenya, the rural application.
20:58And I often think that the bigger the vision, the smaller the first step needs to be.
21:03And so there's a little bit of how do we learn from the global south in the global north in the approach of making it very simple, very grassroots, very attainable and achievable on the ground so that that can scale up to the level of being global.
21:21Can we flip that paradigm in some way?
21:22Do you have insights there?
21:24I think this race had started long ago, so we can't really turn it back and start again.
21:31I mean, what you are asking really would mean going back again, especially in Europe that, you know, people are very well aware of what renewables can do.
21:42There are still some people who are fighting it, but the majority, I'm talking about people, not the market.
21:47The market is a completely different space, ecospace.
21:52Yes.
21:53Even in the United States, I mean, take California. California has done amazingly in solar and wind.
22:00They were the leaders, they always were.
22:02So the global south, the global south is still trying to recover from colonization, but colonization has not ended yet.
22:14So the global south is really has the will, has the passion, but it does not have the means to act upon them.
22:21Okay.
22:22Money makes the world go out.
22:24So most of the countries are in debt.
22:29So how can they really dictate their own energy policies if you don't have money?
22:34They have the resources.
22:36The resources are here more than enough, especially Kenya.
22:39It's a paradise of renewable.
22:42Kenya's electricity grid is 95% renewable electricity, 95% renewable.
22:49They have huge geothermal energy, which is amazing.
22:5395% the electricity grid, but heating, cooling and transportation is all fossil fuels.
23:02Yeah, no.
23:03And you're right.
23:04That dependency is still there.
23:05And one of the things we hear a lot is the just transition and that we need to transition slowly.
23:12So we don't leave people behind and the social equity that comes with the just transition and things like that.
23:17What do you, what do you think of that?
23:20Because if it were up to you, we would have started yesterday, right?
23:23How do we make sure that our solutions are also equitable?
23:27The people are already behind.
23:29I mean, we're not going to leave them behind.
23:31They're already far behind.
23:33They were behind.
23:34I think I'll say it again.
23:37Renewables have a democratic character, if I can use that word.
23:41Okay.
23:42You can take a small panel, install it on a rural hat, and the grandfather there can have enough electricity for his television to power even his smartphone and talk to his grandchildren.
23:57It can be that you cannot do that easily with fossil fuels.
24:01Renewables can really bring everybody together.
24:04Okay.
24:05But you need another system.
24:07I mean, I don't want to talk about the market, but the market is really an entity, a state on its own.
24:13Okay.
24:14Yeah, it's a big one.
24:15And we talked about COP earlier.
24:17And this COP is all about climate finances.
24:20And we just talked about how being in debt and all these bonds and things hold you back from being able to do things.
24:27So is there a better finance mechanism that we could be looking at?
24:30Or are we kind of stuck?
24:32Definitely there is.
24:33And that finance mechanism has been in the brewing for 35 years.
24:39I think it was initiated in Los Angeles, but I'm not quite sure of that.
24:46Don't take me for granted.
24:48We're talking about the loss and damage fund.
24:52The loss and damage fund is something simple.
24:55You take a stone, you throw it at my car window, you break it, you have to pay for it.
25:00Right?
25:01Yeah.
25:02So you guys at the Global North create all this havoc with the climate.
25:07I pay for it.
25:08I lose my cattle.
25:09I lose my hat.
25:10I lose my roads.
25:11I lose my cultivation.
25:13Somebody has to pay me.
25:15Yeah.
25:16Nobody in the North accepts liability for those things.
25:19But the movement is growing.
25:21I'm proud to say I'm a member of that Los Angeles collaboration group.
25:25And they have managed to put it on the table.
25:30It's now being discussed officially.
25:34They calculated the amount of money needed is 1.3 trillion.
25:40The developed countries are really scared away from that.
25:45Of course, they have not agreed, but that's where the money comes from for countries in Sub-Saharan Africa.
25:51It can't come from.
25:53Loss and Damage Fund.
25:55Great people working there.
25:56Great people working there.
25:57And it took a lot to operationalize it.
26:00Is that how you say it?
26:01Because I think it was in the works for like 20 years.
26:05And everyone just talking about like, oh, these are just climate reparations.
26:08Why would we do that?
26:09Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
26:10Exactly.
26:11At COP27 in Egypt, it was accepted for discussion in the agenda.
26:16That was the first time it was officially discussed, the COP27.
26:20It's crazy.
26:21That's how advanced we are.
26:25It's finally made it on the docket.
26:28You mentioned at COP how there's so many more lobbyists than there are, you know, attendees, contributors.
26:35And I'm interested.
26:36We've been talking a lot this season, Victoria and I, about greenwashing.
26:39How difficult it is, even at a policy level, to understand what is and is not the reality of this space we're in.
26:48And you get all the way down to the Coca-Cola can, as you mentioned, it's a near impossibility.
26:53And the guilt trip that happens through that entire top-down modality.
26:59And so the greenwashing of it, how do we look at these issues and the potential and the conversations that are happening and know what's real and what's greenwashing?
27:11Well, first of all, washing is a technique used since advertisements were introduced into our lives.
27:24Every company, every supermarket, they live, they breathe and live for our benefit.
27:29They don't sleep at night trying to make things cheaper and better for us.
27:33Okay.
27:34The same is with greenwashing.
27:36A lot of people talk green and they do black.
27:40We know, you know, we can point out and say, you know, name and shame.
27:44We can tell them.
27:45But if you have social media and you have influencers who say, wow, this oil company is doing great.
27:53You know, who is going to listen to granddad?
27:57So, I mean, greenwashing is there.
27:59Greenwashing is definitely there.
28:01It's a very big problem.
28:03It's a very big problem.
28:04Yeah.
28:05We're going to listen to you.
28:06We talk about cool uncle.
28:07We need to have cool grandpa energy where it's not so much about, again, the white paper and everything.
28:14The science is there, but it's about connecting on a human level.
28:17So, again, we appreciate that you find a really good balance between the facts, the science, the data, and the humanistic approach that we need to have to be able to actually get something done.
28:29So we really, really appreciate that from our perspective and especially as we're looking, you know, my children, Victoria's generation.
28:38And I actually feel like we're in good hands sitting next to Victoria for all these episodes and the work that she's doing and even just my children's outlook on the environment is completely different than my millennial generation and the boomer generation.
28:55And so, yeah, we're hopeful.
28:58All right.
28:59Man, it's always never enough time for this video cast portion.
29:02It has to be.
29:03It has to be.
29:04We have no other choice.
29:05We're out of time.
29:06So, and we are out of time for the show as well.
29:09So appreciate all the insights.
29:11Too little, too late, but we still have optimism.
29:14We still have an impact that we can make today, tomorrow, and for the future.
29:21So we really appreciate this conversation.
29:23Again, as always, we're going to stay on.
29:25We're going to learn a little bit more.
29:26We're going to dig into the science a little bit more.
29:29This is a very human conversation and we want it to be such, but we want to learn a little bit more about some of the insights that we can glean from this conversation.
29:37So, as always, go to TangelicLife.org.
29:39Check out the full blog post.
29:41You'll be able to learn even more.
29:43That was it for this episode.
29:44We really appreciate your time.
29:45This is great.
29:46Thank you, Professor.
29:47Thank you so much.
29:48I love the discussion.
29:49I really loved it.
29:50I really loved it.
29:57Let's talk power.
29:58Let's talk change.
30:00From rural lights to brighter days.
30:03Equity rising.
30:05Voices strong.
30:06We're building tomorrow where we all belong.
30:09Tangela talks.
30:10Energy equity.
30:11Pride.
30:12Empowering the world.
30:13Side by side.
30:14A spark becomes a fire.
30:15A vision that's true.
30:16Together we rise.
30:17It starts with you.
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