- 3 months ago
In this episode of "India First," the big focus is on the incident at the Supreme Court where a 71-year-old lawyer attempted to hurl a shoe at Chief Justice of India BR Gavai.
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00:00Good evening, there was kiosk at the Supreme Court this morning when a 71-year-old lawyer
00:06tried to hurl a shoe at the Chief Justice of India, B.R. Gawai, shouting an insult to Sanatan
00:13will not be tolerated or words to that effect. As the lawyer was taken away by the security,
00:19the Chief Justice of India asked everyone to get back to work and not get distracted.
00:23But the opposition is now targeting the Narendra Modi government and the BJP for what they claim
00:28is a toxic environment that's been created in the country for the past 10 years, where
00:33even the Chief Justice of India is being targeted in his own court.
00:40Supreme shocker in India's top court.
00:48A soul-searing attack on Chief Justice of India.
00:58Attacker cries, stop Sanatan slander.
01:06CGI unfazed, such things don't affect me.
01:15Opposition says, hate by sunk.
01:18BJP assures action, condemns attack.
01:40French flare-up or Vipaksh plot to polarize.
01:58Bulliganism is never acceptable, least of all, in the temple of justice.
02:02But is there merit in the opposition saying that a toxic environment has been created
02:07since Narendra Modi government came to power?
02:11And these self-styled custodians of the Sanatan dharm,
02:14in reflection of the person who hurled or attempted to hurl a shoe at the Chief Justice of India,
02:21these self-styled custodians of Sanatan dharm are now feeling emboldened enough to take law in their own hands.
02:27Do they enjoy overt or covert support despite their actions?
02:33We debate that.
02:33Coming up at 8.30 on India First,
02:36on the eve of the second anniversary of the October 7 terror attack in Israel by Hamas,
02:41Israeli officials and Hamas negotiators are meeting in the Egyptian resort city of Sharm al-Sheikh,
02:46hoping to hammer out a potential ceasefire and the safe return of hostages.
02:52A US team is also in Egypt.
02:54Also coming up, Pakistan's army chief, General Aasem Munir's audacious gamble,
03:00offering the Pasni port in Pakistan to the United States of America after Gwadar to China.
03:07Is he buying protection?
03:08Is Pakistan buying protection against a potential Indian strike,
03:13pawning of Pakistan bit by bit to foreign powers?
03:17We get you that story too.
03:18I'm Gaurav Savan.
03:19As always, let's get started with the headlines on India First.
03:24Bihar Assembly elections to be held in two phases.
03:30Phase 1 elections on the 6th of November for 121 seats.
03:34Remaining 122 seats to vote in Phase 2 on the 11th of November
03:38and the results to be declared on the 14th of November.
03:41Amidst the political uproar over special intensive revision of the voter rollout,
03:53poll body makes it clear,
03:54CEC says process of Pan India SIR process has started
03:59and state-wise dates to be released soon.
04:01Shocking attack on BJP MP and MLA in Bengal, BJP MP Khagain Murmu bleeds after the attack,
04:24stones pelted at BJP lawmakers in Bengal, BJP calls it
04:28Jangal Raj and the TMC and Mamata Banerjee.
04:36Amid debts due to the deluge in Darjeeling, BJP attacks Bengal Chief Minister Mamata Banerjee
04:41for dancing at Kolkata Durga Puja event claims Mamata remorseless
04:47after celebrating tax-funded Poojo.
04:56Social media users target Justice Senthil Kumar in Karoor's stampede case.
05:01Video of Chief Minister Stalin visiting the judge's family emerges.
05:05Social media users allege H.C. judge has DMK ties.
05:17A 71-year-old lawyer attempted to hurl a shoe at the Chief Justice of India,
05:21B.R. Gawai, in the Supreme Court this morning.
05:24The lawyer was escorted out of court by the security
05:27and was heard shouting by several in court
05:30that no insult to Sanatan will be accepted or verged to that effect.
05:36It won't be tolerated.
05:38There has been widespread criticism and condemnation of the incident.
05:41But the opposition united to target the ruling BJP and the Sankh Paripar
05:45for what they claim is the government in the past 10 years
05:49creating a toxic environment where even the Chief Justice of India
05:53is being targeted in his own court.
05:55A shocking bid to attack the Chief Justice of India inside his courtroom.
06:16A lawyer tried to hurl a shoe at the CGI B.R. Gawai.
06:20Moments later, the lawyer Rakesh Kishore was reportedly heard saying,
06:24and I quote, won't tolerate insult of Sanatan Dharm, unquote.
06:30As police and lawyers restrained Rakesh Kishore,
06:33the CGI remained calm, unfazed by the chaos,
06:37simply saying, such things don't impact me.
06:42The attack bid on CGI comes days after his remarks
06:45while dismissing a plea to restore a medieval-era Vishnu statue,
06:50which was allegedly beheaded during the Mughal era.
06:53While refusing the plea, Justice Gawai had quipped
06:56that the petitioner should go and pray to his God for relief.
07:01That comment has sparked outrage among Hindu groups,
07:04prompting protests and demands for an apology.
07:07Chief Justice Gawai later clarified that he respects all religions.
07:11After the bid to attack the CGI,
07:31the Supreme Court's security is now reviewing its protocols.
07:33In a significant update, sources have now told India today
07:39that the CGI has asked officials to not take any action
07:43and ignore the incident.
07:45On one hand, the incident was extremely shocking and unfortunate
07:49and has been condemned by many lawyers and bar associations.
07:53But on the other hand, CGI's calm and composed response
07:57has also drawn praise in the legal circles
08:00for maintaining dignity and restraint inside the courtroom.
08:04Meanwhile, the political crossfire has already begun.
08:08Congress President Malik Arjun Kargay condemned the attack bid,
08:12saying it shows how hate and bigotry have condemned our society.
08:15Kerala Chief Minister Pinaray Vijayan hit out sharply,
08:20calling the incident a reflection of hatred spread by the Sangh Parivar.
08:25He warned against brushing it aside,
08:27saying communal fanaticism exposes the grave danger of divisive politics.
08:45The BGP has condemned the attack.
09:05The incident puts spotlight on a new trend in the digital era.
09:30Judges being targeted for observations made during hearings.
09:37But this time, criticism almost became a physical attack.
09:43Vishtirishti Ojha in Delhi, Bureau Report, India Today.
10:00Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.
10:02Just now, what we see is disproportionate reaction
10:05and completely unwarranted reaction in instances.
10:07These are all discussions that are taking place in courts of law.
10:11Joining me on India first is Adil Singh Goparai,
10:13an advocate and spokesperson of the Congress Party.
10:16Vinit Jindal, again an advocate,
10:17who sought that the Chief Justice of India
10:19not just retract his statement regarding Lord Vishnu in that petition.
10:25And he's joining us on the show.
10:26Professor Dinesh Varshney is a member of the National Executive
10:29of the Communist Party of India.
10:31Ratan Sharada is an author and analyst,
10:33writes on the Rashtriya Swayam Sevak Sangh.
10:35Dushyan Sridhar is a Vedic scholar.
10:38My first question is to India Today's Anisha Mathur,
10:42who tracks the Supreme Court,
10:44was present in court when the initial remarks were also made,
10:48which was said that they've been blown out of proportions
10:51and incorrectly reported in social media.
10:53Anisha, what more do we know about the lawyer
10:57who attempted to hurl a shoe at the Chief Justice of India
11:00and is any action being taken against him?
11:04See, Gaurav, the Bar Council of India has issued a notice.
11:08They've issued a suspension order, in fact.
11:10He, this person, Rakesh Kishore,
11:13who is, according to the IDs that have been provided
11:16to the Supreme Court Bar,
11:18this person was enrolled in 2009 in the Delhi Bar.
11:20He's reportedly been practicing in the Karkar Duma court
11:24and, in fact, is a temporary member of the Supreme Court Bar.
11:27The irony, however, is that I've been trying to speak
11:30to a lot of bar leaders in Karkar Duma, in Delhi and in the SCBA.
11:34Nobody seems to know who he is.
11:36He doesn't seem to have much of a practice.
11:37But he is an enrolled bar member.
11:40What is also important to note is that
11:42the Bar Council of India has suspended him.
11:44He is not, at present, allowed for the next 15 days at least
11:48to practice anywhere, to appear anywhere,
11:50not even to claim himself to be a lawyer.
11:53The Bar Council of Delhi is also expected to file a detailed report
11:57within two days about this particular person.
12:01But if you see what happened today, Gaurav,
12:03it is a shocking incident.
12:05This person is an enrolled lawyer.
12:07He is a bar member.
12:08He walks into the Supreme Court,
12:10into the highest security zone,
12:12in one of the highest security zones in the country,
12:15bends down, takes off his shoe
12:17and tries to hurl it at the dice.
12:19The irony, of course, by the way, Gaurav,
12:21is that he, at the same time,
12:23because he misses, really,
12:25he doesn't actually hit the judges,
12:26then he tells the other judge, Justice Chandran,
12:29that, I'm sorry, my lord,
12:30this was meant for the Chief Justice.
12:32He's very clearly saying in open court
12:34that he was trying to attack the Chief Justice of India.
12:36In that time period, he's, of course,
12:39caught by the security forces,
12:42security personnel, he's taken out.
12:44And while he's being taken out,
12:45he says,
12:46Sanatana, he will not be killed.
12:48So, now, what we're trying to find out, really, Gaurav,
12:51is what motivated this man?
12:53Who is he?
12:54Because nobody in the bar seems to know him.
12:57I, in fact, reached out to the Adhivakta Parishad,
12:59which is the BJP RSS lawyer's wing.
13:02They also don't seem to know him.
13:04Who this person is, where he comes from,
13:07Okay.
13:08We don't seem to know.
13:09But he is somebody who is member of the bar.
13:12Okay.
13:14Virid Jindal, this is unacceptable,
13:16and especially in the temple of justice,
13:18that too from a lawyer,
13:20but respond to the criticism
13:21that this is a toxic environment
13:23that has now engulfed our society
13:25in the past 10 years,
13:27and even lawyers are affected by it.
13:31Look, Gaurav, definitely,
13:32this incident is definitely condemnable,
13:35and nobody is supporting it.
13:37Even being a member of the bar,
13:39being a Sanatani,
13:40I am not supporting it, definitely.
13:42I have straightaway write a letter to CGI,
13:44when I think that the comment
13:46which is made by CGI, it is wrong.
13:48I have straightaway,
13:48that is my constitutional right.
13:50I have done that.
13:51The second point is,
13:52right now, we are talking about the thing,
13:54which is very important.
13:55Now, the political party,
13:57the Congress especially,
13:58is talking about this incident happened
14:00because the ruling party, BJP,
14:02is inciting the people against
14:04the judiciary and other people.
14:07Kindly minded,
14:09the leader of Congress,
14:11Mr. Rahul Gandhi,
14:13every day making very critical remarks,
14:17very objectionable comments
14:18against judiciary,
14:20against election commission,
14:21every time.
14:22Even in Parliament,
14:23three years back,
14:25this Rahul Gandhi
14:26specifically stated that
14:28the courts of India
14:29have been suppressed
14:31the voice of states.
14:32What is that?
14:33So,
14:34these political expectations
14:36and political things,
14:37you can say
14:38that definitely
14:39they are using it.
14:40But,
14:41definitely,
14:42the people have been hurt.
14:43and the way CGI
14:45saying that
14:46we are,
14:47he is respectable,
14:51he is respecting the all religion,
14:53that is definitely,
14:54we are accepting it.
14:55We are accepting his comment.
14:56But,
14:57Let me bring in
14:57Adil Singh Boparai
14:58into this conversation.
15:00Mr. Boparai,
15:01the incident
15:01is being condemned
15:03and must be condemned
15:04by all.
15:04but how is this
15:06a result of
15:07100 years of
15:09RSS hate poison,
15:11corroding minds
15:12and weakening respect
15:13for institutions
15:14as your party leader
15:16Manikam Tagore writes.
15:17Is there a link
15:18between the accused
15:20and the RSS, sir?
15:23Gaurav,
15:24this is a very sad day
15:25for our country.
15:27This is a blot
15:28on our glorious history
15:30and I think
15:31this must be condemned
15:32in the strongest
15:34words possible.
15:36This is not just
15:37an attack
15:38on the judiciary.
15:40I will go one step further.
15:41This is an attack
15:42on our constitutional
15:44scheme of things.
15:46The Honourable Chief Justice,
15:47Justice Gaurav,
15:48is an epitome
15:49of humility,
15:51of grace,
15:53of justness,
15:54of knowledge.
15:57And this kind of
15:58fanaticism
15:59does not bode well
16:00for our country.
16:01As a lawyer,
16:02as a citizen,
16:04I think I am deeply
16:05concerned.
16:06Where are we going
16:07as a society?
16:09This kind of hate
16:10which is inflicted
16:11and which has
16:12engulfed
16:13our body politic.
16:15Where are we going
16:16as a society?
16:16I think it's time
16:17that we must take
16:18stock of what is
16:19happening in this country.
16:21That's point number one.
16:23Point number two,
16:24something which
16:25is very telling
16:26and please correct me
16:28if I am wrong.
16:29Has the Prime Minister
16:30of this country
16:31condemned this incident?
16:33Because perhaps
16:34I haven't read anything.
16:36You are a journalist
16:37so you are of course
16:39glued into
16:40what is happening
16:41every minute.
16:42Could you kindly
16:42tell your viewers
16:43and to the panelists
16:44has the Prime Minister
16:45given out a statement
16:47of condemnation,
16:48Gaurav?
16:49Has the Home Minister
16:50of this country
16:51given out a word
16:52of condemnation?
16:53Has the Law Minister
16:54of this country
16:55condemned this incident?
16:56Gaurav, I am waiting
16:58for your response.
16:59Is there an official
17:00statement by the
17:01Prime Minister
17:02or the Home Minister
17:04or the Law Minister
17:05condemning
17:06this extremely
17:08unfortunate incident?
17:13I think where are we
17:15going as a society?
17:16And let me go
17:17one step further.
17:18It is not just
17:19the BJP.
17:21It is this toxic
17:22environment
17:23which is propelled
17:24by the BJP
17:26and BJP activists
17:27on social media
17:28and it is also
17:31a large section
17:32of the media,
17:34a large section
17:34of the mainstream media
17:36which is injecting
17:37this hate
17:38in our society.
17:39This is the same
17:41hate, Gaurav,
17:42which we saw
17:42in the aftermath
17:43of the independence
17:44of this country
17:45when you had individuals
17:46like Nathuram Gaurse.
17:48This is the same
17:49kind of hate
17:50which is spreading
17:51in our society.
17:52I am deeply
17:53concerned.
17:55Today I am
17:56broken in this country.
17:58Let me bring in
17:59Ratan Sharada
18:00to respond.
18:02The Congress
18:03says this is
18:04a result of
18:05100 years of
18:06RSS hate poison
18:07corroding minds
18:08and weakening
18:09respect for institutions
18:10and Ratan Sharada
18:11how would you
18:12respond to
18:13a lack of response
18:15as the Congress
18:15says from the
18:16government on this
18:18and it's the same
18:19mindset that prevailed
18:21as Adil Singh Bopar
18:22has said
18:23post-independence
18:24and the actions
18:25of Nathuram Gaurse.
18:26Gaurav it is
18:28very easy for
18:29Congress to
18:29make charges
18:30then run away
18:31apologies to the
18:31courts.
18:32It's the regular
18:32habit.
18:34They take action
18:34then they withdraw
18:35the action
18:36claiming that
18:36they have won
18:37victory.
18:37So let me not
18:38go down that
18:39lane.
18:40So Bopar has
18:41been very clever
18:42and very
18:43kind of
18:44arguments
18:44so nobody
18:45can put a
18:46finger on him.
18:47But let me
18:47talk of this
18:48toxic environment
18:49and all that.
18:50In 1947
18:51RSS
18:52fought with
18:53army in
18:53Kashmir
18:54and many
18:54swimsuits
18:55died.
18:56During
18:56partition
18:57swimsuits
18:57died
18:58saving
18:58Hindus
18:59and
18:59Sikhs
19:00and
19:00saving
19:00people
19:01in Sindh,
19:01Punjab,
19:02everywhere
19:02and taking
19:04rehabilitation.
19:05What was the
19:06fallicitation?
19:07They were
19:08oppressed.
19:08They were asked
19:09to shut down
19:10and Gandhi's
19:11assassination gave
19:12them a chance
19:12of banning RSS.
19:14Within one
19:14month the
19:15report was out
19:16by CID that
19:16RSS had no
19:17hand in the
19:18assassination.
19:19Still the
19:20story carried
19:20on.
19:21The charat
19:21carried on
19:22even now
19:23in different
19:23names.
19:24And they
19:25gave us
19:25a constitution.
19:26In any
19:27other nation
19:27such an
19:28organisation
19:28would have
19:28been honoured
19:29that they
19:29have saved
19:29lakhs of
19:30people.
19:30But no,
19:31in our
19:31country they
19:32were called
19:32rioters,
19:32they were
19:33called
19:33communal.
19:35And then
19:35we have
19:36a constitution
19:36which is
19:37heavily loaded
19:37against Hindus
19:38and in
19:39favour of
19:39minorities,
19:40section 25
19:41to 30.
19:41But we
19:42will keep
19:42on saying
19:43it's
19:43secular
19:43constitution.
19:44If it
19:44is,
19:45then why
19:45the laws
19:45are not
19:46equal.
19:46And the
19:47Congress
19:47which has
19:48a story of
19:50making Hindus
19:50as
19:52people,
19:52Hindu
19:53terror,
19:53Saffron
19:53terror,
19:54communal
19:55violence
19:55built with
19:55which went
19:56against Hindus
19:57as a majority
19:58community,
19:59looting
20:00temple funds,
20:02distributing for
20:02government needs,
20:04thousands of
20:04kilograms of
20:05gold melted,
20:06used for
20:07government
20:07purposes,
20:08for non-Hindu
20:09purposes,
20:10all that is
20:10fine.
20:11Sabrimala's
20:12temple door
20:13becomes a brass
20:14door and we
20:15keep quiet.
20:16And the
20:17courts can
20:17say that
20:18you should
20:19go to
20:19Vishnu,
20:20but they
20:20will not
20:20say that
20:22masjid
20:24people under
20:24ASI should
20:25be repaired
20:26without any
20:27call to
20:27the God.
20:28I as a
20:29Hindu condemn
20:29what has
20:30happened because
20:31Hindus carry
20:31the cross of
20:32being
20:33protector of
20:34the constitution,
20:35protector of
20:36the secularism,
20:37but this abuse
20:37of secular
20:38character of
20:39Hindus in
20:40different names
20:40is what
20:41creates this
20:43kind of
20:43environment which
20:44they are
20:45responsible.
20:46It's not
20:46RSS.
20:46RSS is simply
20:47saying we
20:48should not
20:49raise these
20:49kind of
20:50issues, we
20:50should not
20:51create bitterness,
20:52we should
20:52talk to each
20:53other.
20:53It is
20:53Congress which
20:54has continuously
20:55abused RSS
20:56Hindus,
20:57Sanatan is
20:58Zahar,
20:59Malaria,
20:59same Congress
21:00people supported
21:01them, the
21:01misuse of
21:02temple funds,
21:03same Congress
21:03people supported
21:04them, the
21:05laws like this
21:06and that is my
21:06problem.
21:07So despite
21:08the apology
21:09for what has
21:10happened, I
21:11think this
21:12kind of
21:12charges should
21:12be not done
21:13because somebody
21:14lunatic takes
21:15a step but
21:16to bring in
21:17RSS, BJP
21:18without any
21:19shred of
21:20evidence like
21:20it has
21:21happened all
21:22last 80
21:22years, that
21:23should stop
21:23because that
21:24is ultimately
21:24going against
21:25them because
21:26Hindus are fed
21:27up with
21:27kind of abuse
21:28they face
21:28every time for
21:29something when
21:30somebody says
21:31when somebody
21:34says
21:35then you
21:37charge somebody
21:38like
21:38Hunnipur Sharma
21:39as creating
21:40vicious atmosphere,
21:42she is living
21:43under fear of
21:44arms but
21:45nobody else
21:46who created
21:46this kind of
21:47poison is
21:48ever punished
21:49ever taken
21:50up.
21:50Before I
21:51bring in
21:52Professor
21:52Varshney and
21:53Dushal Shnidhar,
21:54I want to
21:55quickly bring in
21:56Anisha Mathur
21:57only on facts
21:58because the
22:00words that were
22:01attributed to the
22:02Honourable Chief
22:03Justice of India
22:03when it came to
22:04that case and
22:06Advocate Jindal,
22:07you may also like
22:07to weigh in after
22:08Anisha, he
22:10didn't utter
22:10those words or
22:11words to that
22:12effect, it was
22:12misinterpreted, he
22:13said and Anisha
22:14you were present
22:15in court that
22:15time.
22:16Yes, let me
22:17just clarify on
22:19air for our
22:19viewers and for
22:20our panelists,
22:21and we have
22:22seen this coming
22:23in after this
22:24was reported
22:26also, I was
22:27attending the
22:28court when this
22:29matter came up,
22:30the council who
22:30mentioned this
22:31matter said it
22:32is a religious
22:32issue, it is
22:33an ASI monument,
22:35the Chief
22:35Justice said it
22:36is an ASI
22:37monument, go to
22:38them, file a
22:38representation
22:39before them,
22:40when the lawyer
22:40refused to back
22:41down, when the
22:42lawyer refused to
22:43withdraw his
22:43petition, that is
22:44when the Chief
22:45Justice said,
22:46well if it is
22:46that important to
22:47you, you can pray
22:48to your God, it
22:49is not within our
22:51power to give you
22:51any relief, that
22:53was misreported in
22:55multiple media
22:57reports and I can
22:58say that with all
22:59sense of
23:00responsibility that
23:00it was misreported
23:01and this is
23:02something that the
23:02SCBA has said
23:03today in its
23:04resolution also, that
23:06there was
23:06misreporting of
23:07what the Chief
23:07Justice said, the
23:09Chief Justice has
23:09not said that I
23:10don't want to
23:11interfere, the
23:12Chief Justice has
23:13not said that I
23:14don't respect
23:14religion, what has
23:15he said, he has
23:16said it is an ASI
23:17protected monument, I
23:19cannot interfere, please
23:20go to them, if it is
23:21so important to you, you
23:22can pray to whoever
23:23you want, it is not
23:24my job, the
23:25problem here is that
23:27we at one point go
23:28to the Supreme
23:29Court for absolutely
23:30everything and then
23:32we also attack the
23:33judges for saying
23:34absolutely anything,
23:35we are living
23:37Gaurav in a situation
23:39where people believe
23:41that just because
23:42they have heard part
23:43of the information
23:44or something has
23:45been tweeted
23:45somewhere, something
23:46has been put on
23:46some social media
23:49handle somewhere,
23:50anybody and everybody
23:52has the right to
23:53escalate the situation
23:54and perhaps that is
23:55why that response
23:56that you know
23:57social media has
23:59become anti-social
24:00before, okay I
24:00have to bring in
24:01Professor Vashni but
24:02go ahead, Adil, please
24:03come next to
24:04Woparai.
24:05Gaurav, I need to
24:06respond to what
24:07Mr. Sharda has
24:08said, the problem
24:09today is that
24:10mediums of
24:11communication are
24:12being used to
24:13brainwash people.
24:15What we are talking
24:16today is an
24:17absolutely terrible
24:19incident on the
24:206th of October
24:212025.
24:23I think this
24:24requires unequivocal
24:25condemnation and
24:27it would have
24:28helped, it would
24:29have helped had
24:29the Prime
24:30Minister of this
24:31country, had the
24:32Home Minister of
24:33this country and
24:34the Law Minister of
24:35this country come
24:36out and stood in
24:37solidarity with the
24:38judiciary because
24:40today every right
24:41thinking individual
24:42who believes in the
24:43rule of law, who
24:44believes in the
24:45constitution, today
24:47stands in unison
24:48with the judiciary.
24:50Sir, that point
24:51you have made
24:51earlier too, if
24:53there is an
24:53additional point
24:54I will come to
24:54you because I
24:54have to bring in
24:55Professor Varshney.
24:56Professor Varshney, I
24:57will take you back
24:57in history for a
24:58moment, you
24:59know there was an
25:00accused called
25:01Mohammed Raisuddin.
25:02Mohammed Raisuddin was
25:03booked under NDPS and
25:05I am taking you back to
25:052016 in the month of
25:07July in Bidari hurled a
25:09shoe at the judge when
25:11his bail was cancelled.
25:12In 2013 May when
25:14Sajjan Kumar was
25:15acquitted in 1984
25:17anti-sikh rights case,
25:18the shoe was hurled at
25:19the Honorable Sessions
25:20judge.
25:20No one that time said
25:21toxic environment, 10
25:23years, BJP government
25:25is doing all of this.
25:26Why this politics
25:28around this step now
25:30in your view, sir?
25:32Look, Gaurab, there
25:33was a condemnation of
25:34those acts also at
25:35that time by all
25:36political parties.
25:38It is not like that
25:39that we have not
25:40condemned.
25:40But today the act is
25:42a result of that
25:44hatred and poisonous
25:47propaganda of BJP,
25:49RSS and their
25:49cronies and their
25:50allotmany sainas which
25:52they protect directly or
25:53indirectly to fend the
25:55communalism in the
25:56country.
25:57And it is a result of
25:58that.
25:59They are propagating not
26:00only communism, they are
26:01propagating the
26:02communism on the basis
26:03of the myth.
26:05There is no credible
26:06evidence that this
26:09headless statue in the
26:11Khajraa have been to
26:12Khajraa twice.
26:13I have seen them
26:14I am a professor of
26:15history.
26:16I know what is
26:16archaeology is.
26:17I know how two statues
26:18are made.
26:19There can be, there are
26:21hundreds of statues in
26:23National Museum, Indoor
26:24Museum, Mathram Museum.
26:25There are so many
26:26museums where the head
26:28is not there or hand is
26:29not there or something
26:30is not there.
26:32So it has become a
26:34tendency of the right
26:35reactionaries and these
26:36RSS cronies and the
26:38BJP cronies to bring one
26:41or the other communal
26:42issues to the court and
26:43take the shelter of the
26:44court.
26:45This attack on CGI is an
26:47attempt of that.
26:48Earlier also, you know,
26:49Nishikand Dubey attacked
26:50the Chief Justice of
26:51India.
26:52Just 15-20 days ago,
26:54one of the chief
26:55advisors of the
26:56Prime Minister of India
26:57has the entire
26:59Supreme Court that they
27:00are the burden, they
27:01are the hindrance towards
27:02the vixen Bharat.
27:05As and when anything
27:07comes against the
27:07government, they
27:08think they did it.
27:09It is an attempt of
27:10those covenant
27:11politics of the BJP
27:12RSS, which is
27:14killing the scientific
27:15temperament.
27:17Every government
27:17should build the
27:18scientific temperament
27:19among the youth,
27:20among the middle
27:21ages, among the
27:21youth.
27:22This advocate is a
27:2371-year-old.
27:25You see, he is not
27:25a young boy.
27:27An advocate is an
27:29academic person.
27:31He is an academic
27:31person.
27:32He is not a street
27:33boy who is fighting
27:34for a water on the
27:35street or fighting
27:36for a ball on the
27:37street or writing
27:38for a...
27:38And he puts item
27:39on the street.
27:40He is a 71-year-old.
27:42Let's bring in
27:42Dushant Shridhar.
27:43Okay, Ratan Shardha
27:44also wants to come in.
27:46Sir, permit me to
27:46bring in Dushant Shridhar.
27:47I am just coming to you,
27:48Mr. Shardha.
27:49Dushant Shridhar, some
27:50see this incident as a
27:53casteist remark against
27:55the Chief Justice of
27:56India.
27:57There are also those
27:58who are linking this
27:59to a brahmanical
28:01mindset to intimidate
28:03the Chief Justice of
28:04India.
28:05Are these, in your
28:05view, very carefully
28:06chosen words?
28:08What do you make of
28:10very senior lawyers
28:12using words like this,
28:14a brahmanical mindset
28:15or a casteist attack
28:16and do you agree,
28:17sir?
28:19Namaskaram, Gaurav,
28:21and namaskaram to
28:22all my fellow
28:23panelists.
28:23I patiently heard
28:25them.
28:25At the outset,
28:27as a Bharatiya,
28:28as a citizen of
28:28India, I absolutely
28:31condemn such a nasty
28:33attack on the
28:34highest court and
28:36that to the
28:36Honourable Chief
28:37Justice of India.
28:38There could be
28:39differences of
28:40opinion, even with
28:41the judge or a
28:42judgment.
28:43But there is a way
28:44where you protest.
28:46There is a manner in
28:47which you say your
28:48resentment.
28:49This, of course, is a
28:50very nasty act.
28:51Whoever has done it,
28:52completely condemnable.
28:55Gaurav, I would just
28:56like to draw your
28:57attention to one
28:58particular aspect.
29:00An attack,
29:01physically, is bad.
29:03An attack which is
29:04vicious in nature and
29:06has many undertones is
29:07also bad.
29:08In the last few
29:09years, I have seen
29:10some members, I am an
29:11apolitical person, but
29:12as a citizen, I see
29:14some statements coming
29:14from the political
29:15circles, raising a
29:17lot of doubt on
29:18judiciary, raising a
29:20lot of doubt on
29:21judiciary and the
29:22judgment, on CBI, on
29:25election commission.
29:26That is equally bad.
29:27See, for example,
29:28Gaurav, if you
29:29remember in 2024, when
29:31the Honourable Chief
29:32Justice of India, then
29:34Chandra Chudji, had
29:35invited the Honourable
29:37Prime Minister of
29:37India to his
29:38Ganapati Pooja in
29:40his house.
29:41There were various
29:42remarks made stating
29:43that this is not
29:45right and this is not
29:46right.
29:46Currently, you see the
29:47Honourable Chief
29:49Minister of Tamil Nadu
29:50attending to the
29:51reception of a judge's
29:54house.
29:54So, is that wrong?
29:56So, attributing and
29:57ascribing mal
29:58intentions to the, on
30:00the judiciary, on the
30:02judges, on the CBI, on
30:04the election commission
30:05is also equally bad.
30:06So, we should take
30:07cognizance of that as
30:08well.
30:09But do you see this as
30:10casteist and
30:11grammatical?
30:11Absolutely not.
30:13Absolutely not.
30:14So, see, if we bring
30:15in the caste angle, then
30:17we will have to bring in
30:18caste angle in every
30:19statement made.
30:20We have to bring
30:21communal angle in
30:22every statement made.
30:23Just now, one of the
30:24members of the panel,
30:25who is from India
30:26today, stated that she
30:28is witness to the fact,
30:30she is witness to the
30:31fact that the statement
30:32made by the Chief
30:33Justice was not of any
30:35evil nature.
30:36It was just made in a
30:37certain context.
30:39So, what if somebody
30:39takes it out of the
30:40context and says he is
30:41attacking Hinduism?
30:43So, the same way is the
30:44statement made by a
30:45member of the advocate
30:47community stating that
30:48it is a Brahminical
30:49mindset.
30:50Why?
30:51Has he gone through the
30:52caste details of the
30:53person who has thrown
30:54the shoe?
30:55Advocate Jindal, the
30:56Supreme Court advocates
30:58on record association
30:59passed a resolution
31:00condemning this
31:01unwarranted and
31:03intemperate gesture of
31:04the adequate in
31:05question.
31:06Your reading of those
31:07who describe this
31:08incident as a
31:09casteist remark or
31:11you know, linking it
31:12to a certain
31:13Brahminical mindset.
31:16Yes, I have
31:17write it on Twitter
31:19recently that I have
31:21again said that if
31:22the statement made by
31:23the Chief Justice of
31:25India at that time,
31:26if it is that,
31:27definitely he said to
31:28say sorry.
31:29So, now I am
31:31attacking by certain
31:32people who belongs to
31:34a certain community.
31:34If I go by that way,
31:37then definitely it is
31:38wrong.
31:38So, I don't think it is
31:40put like that.
31:41It should be stopped.
31:43Definitely,
31:43whosoever, the people
31:45of opposition party on
31:46a regular basis saying
31:48that our judicially
31:49corrupt, our
31:50courts are corrupt,
31:52our election commission
31:53has already been taken
31:54in the hand, playing in
31:56the hands of the
31:56government.
31:57So, what they are
31:58doing?
31:59So, putting allegation
32:00on each other is not
32:01a solution.
32:02The solution is if
32:03the CGI is not saying
32:05a word which is
32:06print in the media,
32:07then definitely he is
32:09passing an order to
32:10take down all the
32:11statement which is
32:12published by the
32:13media people in the
32:15mainstream media that
32:16can be done.
32:17Why not that can be
32:18done if it is not
32:18saying?
32:20Okay.
32:20Anisha wants to come
32:21in and Radhan
32:22Shardar wants to come
32:22in.
32:23Okay, Anisha,
32:23quickly.
32:23Quickly, Anisha,
32:26before I bring in
32:26Mr. Ratan Shardar,
32:27I just have one point
32:29to make here.
32:30The debate that
32:30we are trying to
32:31create is on the
32:34issue that we need
32:36to have some
32:37sort of moderation.
32:38We need to stop
32:39the toxicity that
32:41is there.
32:41We cannot have
32:42somebody throwing
32:43a shoe at the
32:44Chief Justice and
32:45then saying
32:46Sanatan ka
32:47apman kar rahe hai hai.
32:48The problem here,
32:49Gaurav, and for our
32:50panelists, we are
32:51looking at it purely
32:52from a political
32:53perspective.
32:54What we also need to
32:55look at is the fact
32:56that on social media,
32:58on statements that
32:59are being made by
33:00various people and
33:00include, and I
33:01apologize for saying
33:03the next sentence,
33:04by some people on
33:05our panel itself,
33:06why exactly is
33:07everything being
33:08politicized?
33:09Why is it that a
33:10Chief Justice cannot
33:10say, I'm sorry, I
33:11will not hear this
33:12matter, please go
33:13away, without being
33:14attacked on a
33:16communal angle, and
33:17let's be real here,
33:19this man actually
33:20made the statement
33:21in the courtroom
33:23saying, that
33:23Sanatan ka
33:24apman harai hai.
33:25So, somebody has
33:25to answer to that.
33:26Why is it that a
33:28judge refusing to
33:29hear a petition is
33:30being condemned for
33:32attacking a religion?
33:33How is refusing to
33:34hear a petition
33:35attacking a religion?
33:36We need to
33:37balance that.
33:37Mr. Jindal, you
33:38want to quickly
33:38respond before I
33:39bring in Ratan
33:39Sharada and
33:40Adil Singh
33:40Bhopar hai?
33:41Definitely, Gaurav,
33:42I am again saying
33:43if the statement
33:44which is published
33:45by the mainstream
33:46media is not made
33:48by the CGI, that
33:49should be condemned,
33:50that should be
33:50taken back, the
33:51order can be passed,
33:52but nothing has
33:53been done.
33:54If it is so,
33:55definitely the
33:55people has been
33:56hurt, why not?
33:57Can CGI tell the
33:59same thing, same
34:00words for the
34:01other religion?
34:03This is wrong,
34:04and how the CGI says
34:06that, and how the
34:08CGI says, okay, hold
34:10on, I want to bring
34:10him Ratan
34:11Sharada because
34:11time is out of
34:12premium.
34:13I am very sorry
34:14if you say,
34:14okay, Mr. Varshney
34:16wants to come in,
34:17only Mr. Varshney
34:18before I bring in
34:19Adil Singh Bhopar hai.
34:19If you can pass
34:20an order, ask the
34:21ASI, he is defending
34:22his personal type of
34:25mind in his mind
34:26in 71 years
34:27made, that is wrong.
34:29Why has he not
34:29found a scientific
34:30temperament and
34:31understand that myth
34:32cannot be reality?
34:33Ratan Sharada,
34:34respond to the
34:35Congress President
34:36Madhikarjun Khargayi
34:37saying that this
34:37mindless act shows
34:39how hate,
34:40fanaticism and
34:41bigotry has
34:42engulfed our society
34:44in the past
34:45decade.
34:46Gaurav, I
34:48already responded
34:49to what Khargayi
34:50said in the
34:50beginning.
34:50I won't repeat
34:51myself, it's a
34:52waste of time.
34:53For me, more
34:53important is your
34:54correspondent talked
34:55about toxicity.
34:57What is toxicity
34:57when Congress
34:58starts attacking
34:59RSS BJP for
35:00an action of an
35:02aged old man,
35:03loony man onto
35:04RSS that is
35:05creating toxicity
35:06and creating
35:06politics around
35:07it?
35:08Mr. Varshney,
35:08very respected
35:09professor, I love
35:10him, he says that
35:12we should have
35:12scientific temper.
35:14When Saraswati
35:15river was being
35:15searched,
35:16discovered with
35:17scientific evidences,
35:19Congress party
35:19stopped the funding
35:20of that particular
35:21project.
35:21Is that scientific?
35:22When communist
35:23people controlling
35:24the history books,
35:25whitewashed history,
35:26removed many
35:27elements which
35:28show Mughals
35:28in bad light,
35:29invaders in bad
35:30light, that was
35:31scientific?
35:32Where Ramadhi
35:32has broken,
35:33the Ramadhi
35:34decision was...
35:35Sir,
35:35I want to for a
35:37moment stay on
35:38the current incident,
35:39Mr. Sharda and
35:40Mr. Varshney.
35:41I want to bring in
35:42Adil Singh Goparaya,
35:43only Adil Singh Goparaya,
35:44no crosstalk,
35:45please.
35:45Adil Singh Goparaya,
35:47advocate Sanjay
35:48Hedgde, recounts an
35:49incident that
35:50happened before as
35:51well, Chief Justice
35:52of India, Hidayatullah,
35:54again from Nagpur,
35:55he, at one point
35:58of time, had a
35:59shoe thrown at him
36:00by some disgruntled
36:01litigant.
36:02He ordered the
36:02shoe to be returned
36:03to the man, saying
36:04he's already lost the
36:05case, let him not
36:06lose his shoe as
36:07well.
36:07In the current
36:09incident, sir,
36:09I once again come
36:10back, is there any
36:11evidence to link or
36:13to suggest that this
36:14is a casteist remark
36:16against the Chief
36:17Justice of India or a
36:19Brahminical mindset to
36:20intimidate the Chief
36:21Justice of India as
36:23is being alleged or
36:24claimed by very senior
36:25advocates?
36:26Kaurav, I can speak
36:29for my party and I
36:30can speak for myself.
36:32The fringe of the
36:33yesteryears, the
36:35fringe which
36:36extols violence,
36:38hatred, bigotry,
36:40casteism, today has
36:42become mainstream in
36:43this country.
36:44And unfortunately,
36:46you have individuals,
36:47prominent individuals,
36:49who come out to
36:50national television and
36:51try to defend it or in
36:53a fork manner try to
36:54give tacit
36:56approval.
36:57This is this
36:57one, sir.
36:58Okay, I have
36:58breaking news that's
36:59just coming in.
37:01I have breaking news
37:01that's just coming in.
37:03Prime Minister Narendra
37:04Modi has spoken to
37:06the Chief Justice of
37:07India, Justice
37:08B.R. Gawai.
37:10This is information
37:11that's just coming in.
37:12So, the Prime
37:13Minister has spoken to
37:14CJI.
37:15The attack on him
37:16earlier today in the
37:17Supreme Court premises
37:18has angered every
37:20Indian.
37:22There is no place for
37:23such reprehensible
37:25action as this.
37:26society, it is utterly
37:28condemnable, says the
37:31Prime Minister of
37:32India.
37:33I appreciated the
37:34calm displayed by
37:35Justice Gawai in the
37:37face of such a
37:38situation.
37:39It highlights his
37:40commitment to the
37:41values of justice and
37:43strengthening the
37:44spirit of our
37:46constitution.
37:47I once again want to
37:48read out to you what
37:49Prime Minister Narendra
37:50Modi has just put out
37:53on social media
37:54on social media
37:54platform X to say
37:55spoke to Chief Justice
37:56of India, Justice
37:57B.R. Gawaiji.
37:59The attack on him
37:59earlier today in the
38:00Supreme Court premises
38:01has angered every
38:02Indian.
38:02There is no place for
38:03such reprehensible acts
38:05in our society.
38:06It is utterly
38:07condemnable.
38:08condemnable.
38:09I appreciated the
38:10calm displayed by
38:11Justice Gawaiji in the
38:12face of such a
38:14situation.
38:15It highlights his
38:15commitment to the
38:16values of justice and
38:18strengthening the
38:19spirit of our
38:20constitution.
38:22We will continue to
38:23track this story very
38:24closely.
38:24I want to thank all my
38:25guests.
38:27Pakistan's Army Chief
38:28Field Marshal Asim
38:29Munir has offered US
38:30President Donald Trump
38:31a $1.2 billion deal to
38:34build and operate a
38:35deep water port in
38:37Pasni in Baluchistan and
38:40this is barely 70 odd
38:42miles, a little over
38:43100 kilometers from
38:44China's Gwadar port and
38:46very close to India-backed
38:48Jabahar in Iran.
38:50Let me just look at the
38:51great game that's
38:52currently happening and
38:54the audacious bid by
38:56Pakistan's Army Chief
38:57Asim Munir.
38:58So this plan would
38:59allow the United States
39:00to build a civilian
39:01terminal at the
39:03Pasni port in
39:04Pakistan and access
39:06Pakistan's critical
39:07minerals.
39:09But very clearly,
39:11this will have no
39:12Pakistani oversight.
39:14The proposal came
39:16soon after Asim
39:17Munir and Pakistan's
39:18Prime Minister Shabah
39:19Sharif in tow had
39:20that closed-door
39:21meeting with Donald
39:22Trump at the White
39:22House in September
39:23where Pakistan pitched
39:25itself as the gateway
39:26for American trade
39:28and mining interests
39:29and giving them
39:30access even to
39:32Central Asia
39:33through a rail link.
39:35Now there are
39:35viral images that
39:36show Munir gifting
39:38Trump a box of
39:39rare earth minerals,
39:40a move that's being
39:41mocked extensively
39:42online even in
39:44Pakistan.
39:45That Pakistan
39:46Army Chief is like
39:47a salesman who's
39:49pawning ports and
39:51stones like on
39:53OLX.
39:54But there's a bigger
39:55game that's unfolding
39:56behind Pakistan's
39:57Pasni port pitch.
39:59On the 18th of July,
40:00Pakistan, Afghanistan
40:01and Uzbekistan signed
40:02a deal for a
40:03760-kilometer-long
40:05trans-Afghan rail line
40:07that would link
40:08Central Asia to
40:10Pakistan.
40:10Now this $4.8
40:12billion project
40:13aims to cut
40:14transport costs
40:15by 40%
40:16is likely or
40:17expected to be
40:17ready by 2027
40:19should everything
40:20work out.
40:21With a possible
40:21US involvement,
40:23Islamabad actually
40:23hopes to revive
40:24another and receive
40:26another $2.3
40:26billion and revive
40:28that Gwadar
40:29Jacobabad rail line
40:31shelved in
40:322022 since China
40:33refuses to pay for
40:34it.
40:34I quickly want
40:35to bring in
40:36my colleague
40:37Sandeep Unnithan
40:38for more on
40:39this because
40:39this is one
40:41extremely audacious
40:43two is Aasem
40:45Munir not
40:45playing with fire
40:46Gwadar to
40:47China, Pasni to
40:48United States
40:49and that dream
40:50that he's selling
40:51like that salesman
40:53that America can
40:54access Central
40:55Asia.
40:56Absolutely Gaurav
40:56and you know you
40:57have to see the
40:58mindset of dictators
40:59when they take
41:00power in Pakistan
41:01then everything is
41:02up for sale.
41:03You saw that in
41:041963.
41:04when Field Marshal
41:06Ayyub just
41:06transferred 5,000
41:08kilometers of
41:08the Shakskam
41:09Valley to China
41:10and you've seen
41:11various such
41:12transactional
41:13relationships that
41:14Pakistani dictators
41:15have engaged in
41:16and the latest
41:17is of course
41:18Aasem Munir
41:19Field Marshal
41:19Aasem Munir
41:20in 2025
41:21where he's
41:21hawking ports
41:23he's selling
41:23raw materials
41:24minerals
41:25rare earths
41:26all of that
41:26and the latest
41:27of course Gaurav
41:28as you mentioned
41:28is Pasni port
41:29it's not just
41:30the port which
41:31he's offered
41:31to the United States
41:32but it's also
41:33a rail line
41:34which he's offering
41:35for them to build
41:36so that they can
41:37speedily take out
41:38the resources
41:38the raw materials
41:40the minerals
41:40out of Pakistan
41:41now that is a
41:43slate of hand
41:44really because
41:44you have not far
41:46from Pasni
41:46you have Gwadar port
41:47which is completely
41:48defunct
41:49he got the Pakistan
41:51the Pakistan military
41:51got the Chinese
41:52interested in the
41:53CPAC corridor
41:54but that corridor
41:55has failed
41:56it's flopped
41:57the Gwadar port
41:58is completely
41:59defunct
42:01so he is trying
42:02to play another game
42:03by getting the
42:04Americans in
42:04and there's also
42:05another
42:05second story
42:07to this
42:08Gaurav
42:08because Pasni
42:09getting the Americans
42:11into Pasni
42:11is possibly going to
42:12protect the Pakistan
42:14Navy
42:14from possible
42:15annihilation
42:16by the Indian Navy
42:17we saw that
42:18happening during
42:18Operation Sindhur
42:19when the Indian Navy
42:20was at the doorstep
42:21of Karachi
42:22and the Pakistan
42:23Navy was nowhere
42:24in sight
42:24this has made
42:26Pakistan acutely
42:27aware of their
42:28very vulnerable
42:29southern flank
42:30through which it
42:30imports something
42:31like 150,000
42:33barrels of oil
42:34every day
42:34it's very critical
42:35to their survival
42:36they need the
42:37Americans there
42:38in Pasni
42:38to ensure
42:39that they can
42:40be protected
42:41in case of
42:42any military
42:43retaliation
42:44from India
42:45Gaurav
42:45so you know
42:46they're pawning
42:47their borders
42:48their sea borders
42:49just so that
42:50India doesn't
42:51bomb it
42:51Gaurav
42:52being given
42:53to China
42:53earlier
42:54and now
42:54Pasni
42:55being offered
42:55to the United
42:56States of America
42:57I wonder
42:57who gets
42:58Ormara next
42:59but we'll be
42:59tracking that
43:00story
43:00very closely
43:01Sandeep
43:01stay with me
43:02because Pakistan's
43:02frustration
43:03is spilling out
43:04after this
43:05humiliation
43:05during Operation
43:07Sindhur
43:07now days after
43:08General Upendra
43:09Dvivedi
43:10the Chief of the
43:10Army Staff
43:11and Defence Minister
43:12Rajnath Singh
43:13warned
43:14that history
43:15and geography
43:16could change
43:17if Pakistan
43:18continues to
43:19spread terror
43:20Pakistan's
43:21Defence Minister
43:22Khwaja Asif
43:23has issued
43:24another threat
43:25an empty threat
43:26now Khwaja Asif
43:28claims
43:28if war breaks
43:29out again
43:29India will be
43:30buried
43:31under the wreckage
43:32of fighter jets
43:33remember it's the
43:33same Pakistan
43:34that on 10th of May
43:35on a bent knee
43:37was begging for a
43:38ceasefire
43:38and now is
43:39threatening India
43:40once again
43:40now Khwaja Asif
43:41accused India
43:42of raising tensions
43:43to divert attention
43:44from domestic issues
43:45a desperate outburst
43:46after Pakistan's
43:47military
43:48and political
43:49humiliation
43:50we get you more
43:51in this report
43:52Pakistan's tantrums
44:06after Operation
44:07Sindhur
44:08keeps getting
44:09louder
44:09but it is all
44:11smoke
44:11and social media
44:13thunder
44:14days after
44:15India's warning
44:16against any
44:17misadventure
44:18Pakistan's
44:19Defence Minister
44:20Khwaja Asif
44:21went on a rant
44:22on social media
44:23Asif claimed
44:25that if war
44:26comes
44:26India will be
44:27buried under
44:28the wreckage
44:29of its fighter jets
44:30he accused
44:31New Delhi
44:31of making
44:32loud statements
44:33to win back
44:34credibility
44:34and to distract
44:36from problems
44:37at home
44:37this latest
44:39meltdown
44:39follows dire
44:40warnings from
44:41India
44:41from Anupagar
44:43Army Chief General
44:44Upendra Divedi
44:45warned Pakistan
44:46to stop
44:47its sporting terror
44:48or watch
44:48its geography
44:49change
44:5024
44:51rapid signal
44:51judgment
44:52this time
44:53is with
44:53the country
44:53and it will not
44:57keep the truth
44:58in Sindhur 1.0
44:59this time
45:02we will do the
45:03future
45:03and the same
45:05as we can do
45:05that it will
45:06happen
45:06to Pakistan
45:07to think
45:08that it will
45:09be in the
45:10situation
45:10or not
45:11be in the
45:12situation
45:12Defence Minister Rajnath Singh was blunt too
45:16Saying any misadventure in Sir Creek will be met with firm action
45:21Carnard Pakistan's
45:50or brass resorts to chest thumping the man talking tough is the same who had
45:56pointed to social media as proof of a downed jet Indian Air Force chief AP
46:03Singh cut through the fog calling Pakistan's claim manohar
46:07from military embarrassment to political theater Pakistan's loud threats are ringing hollow
46:31India's message is simple stop sponsoring terror or face the consequences
46:37bureau report India today
46:41so when you hear Pakistan's empty threats you wonder if Pakistan has those 2000 kilometer long
46:52long-range missiles that can hit any part of India if they talk about nuclear escalation
46:57if they're talking about burying Indian jets and all of that why didn't they do this on the 10th of May
47:03when Pakistan's DGMO was begging for a ceasefire on a bent knee I spoke to Lieutenant General KJS Dhillon
47:11former Director General of Defense Intelligence Agency for my Chakra View podcast
47:16and he explains why Pakistan can only issue an empty threat and do nothing after Operation Sindhu
47:27is there an apprehension that it could escalate to a full-fledged conventional war so far you were
47:35able to control it in 88 days could it escalate could it become unlimited you know like Russia Ukraine war
47:41is on for three years Israel and Hamas has been on for practically two years there may be temporary
47:48peace but that conflict situation still remains is there an apprehension that that could destabilize
47:53our economy that's his mentality see firstly two three points to raise that I'll cover one by one
48:04firstly what army chief said in operation 2.0 we will not show the restraint which we showed in
48:10operation 1.0 we showed a restraint in spite of being in a winning position in spite of our economy
48:16supporting us in spite of our military might supporting us we showed responsibility as a nuclear
48:21responsible nuclear state now if Pakistan does it again it has been told in no unclear terms
48:27this time we will not show restraint this time we'll employ all our military might all our nation's might
48:34the comprehensive national power will be applied against the enemy to get the best results now having
48:40said that the point which you're making okay Russia Ukraine war is going for so long and
48:47Hamas Israel war Iran Israel war is about the conflict going for so long from our point of view there is
48:55something called war fighting stamina the war fighting stamina roughly means the capability of a nation
49:02to fight a war not only the military stamina there's economic stamina there's a diplomatic stamina there's a
49:08political will that also has a stamina and as a nation how long can we say no right or wrong we will
49:15fight this war so India's war fighting stamina purely from the political will point of view from the
49:22military point of view military might point of view and economic backing point of view our war fighting
49:28stamina is n number times higher than Pakistan so moment the war extends beyond four or five days
49:35with each passing day Pakistan will keep becoming weaker and weaker militarily and economically whereas our
49:41war fighting stamina
49:48and news just coming in delegations of the hamas of israel government and the united states are meeting
49:55at egyptian resort of sharm al-sheikh these are indirect talks on us president donald trump's 20 point proposal
50:03to end the war in gaza these discussions are being brokered by egypt now they come at a time when all
50:12sides are very divided on very key issues hostage release is the biggest issue because that has to be
50:19step one according to president trump hamas has agreed in principle to a structured exchange under the trump
50:26plan but insist that certain field conditions have to be met before the hostages are released i quickly want
50:32to bring in india today's foreign affairs editor geeta mohan for more on this uh sandeep unitan stays with me
50:37on this uh geeta talks have just started what's expected indirect talks are brokered by or mediated by
50:46egypt and uh the united states of america uh the delegations are there uh the first conversation and
50:54the more the the the priority that uh the focus is going to be on uh where the prioritizing hostage
51:01release so qatari and egyptian delegations are mediating talks between uh the hamas and the israeli
51:08delegation to ensure that there is a system in place for hostage release there are other areas also
51:14that the hamas will be putting forth in terms of uh what they agree with what they don't uh they are
51:20have been reluctant in giving up arms completely but that's the conditionality you're talking about
51:25that certainly is a condition where the hamas will have to give up arms so we'll have to wait and see
51:30how this entire this conversation uh pans out for both sides but for now focus and priority on hostage
51:37release because sandeep the disarmament uh clause that that geeta also refers to uh is a huge
51:44sticking a sticking issue uh the plan requires hamas to completely disarm but israel can continue to
51:51carry out its operations uh till hamas is either completely removed from there as a governing entity
51:57or even as a body that exists there hamas can have no role in the governance of gaza in future is hamas
52:03agreeable to all of this and other interlocutors agreeable to all these points well gaurav as you
52:08mentioned hamas is to step down from running the uh gaza strip what's left of it and they're supposed
52:14to hand over all the uh you know administration to the palestinian authority which will then administer
52:20the gaza strip and slowly supervise the withdrawal of israeli forces in a step-by-step manner till the
52:27time that there are no israeli troops uh left in the gaza strip but you know the sticky point as you and
52:33geeta mentioned are going to be those hostages it's nearly the second anniversary in a few hours from now it's
52:38going to be the second anniversary of the grab of those hostages something like 48 hostages are
52:44still unaccounted for only about 20 of them are believed to be alive and the thing is that if hamas
52:51it's literally the only shield that hamas has left gaurav to protect them from israeli retaliation the
52:57minute hamas lets go of those hostages they know that the full force of israel is going to come down
53:03on them and that is the reason why they've been holding on to them uh precisely the reason why
53:08hostages were taken in the first place nearly two years back it was to protect hamas from annihilation
53:13by the israeli military and so that is going to be the biggest uh sticking point really in what we're
53:18going to be seeing in the negotiations and sharmal sheikh uh gaurav those the fate of the hostages both
53:24dead and uh living in fact those who are dead uh in many instances they don't even know where the
53:30bodies are buried there's so much rubble all over but we'll be tracking that story very closely uh
53:35sandeep and gita for the moment many thanks for joining me the plan section of israeli withdrawal
53:39that's three-phase withdrawal uh is also a sticking point but there is no timeline on the withdrawal
53:46of the israeli forces there's more breaking news that's coming in and this is coming in from the
53:51prime minister's office big story coming in
53:54prime minister narendra modhi has condemned the attack on bjp leaders in bengal the prime minister
54:04has just said the manner in which our party colleagues including a sitting member of parliament
54:10and a member of the legislative assembly were attacked in west bengal for serving the people
54:16in the flood affected areas affected by floods and landslides is outright appalling it highlights the
54:25insensitivity of the trinamool congress as well as the absolutely pathetic law and order situation in
54:32the state i wish the west bengal government and the trinamool congress were more focused on helping
54:39people rather than indulging in violence in such a challenging situation i call upon bjp karekartas
54:47to continue working among the people and assess assist the ongoing rescue operations this is what
54:55prime minister narendra modhi has just put out on social media platform x hitting out at the west
55:01bengal government and the trinamool congress for the manner in which bjp leaders and mp and mla
55:08were targeted by the tmc we'll be tracking that story very closely but that is all i have time for
55:13on india first this evening many thanks for watching news and updates continue on india today
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