- 18 hours ago
It's Grand Final week in Super League and episode six of the Serious About Rugby League Show is here. Will Jackson, Sam Cook, Sam Brocksom and Peter Smith look ahead to Hull KR v Wigan Warriors at Old Trafford this weekend and discuss the semi-finals, whether Paul Wellens deserves to keep his job, Hull KR's selection dilemma and more.
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00:00Hello and welcome along to the Serious About Rugby League show. I'm Will Jackson. Joining
00:11me is Peter Smith of the Yorkshire Evening Post and we've got Sam Cooke and Sam Broxon
00:17of Serious About Rugby League. I'm happy to say that we've reached Grand Final week now.
00:23Hull K.I. will be taking on Wigan Warriors at Old Trafford on Saturday night. It's been
00:28a long haul season but these are Super League's two best teams you'd think. Replay of last
00:35year's event as well. It's going to be an absolute cracker. Just before we look ahead to that
00:42game, we'll just look back at the weekend's action then. So starting with Wigan, we've
00:48got Wigan Warriors 18, Lee Leopard 6 at the Brick Community Stadium. Lee were on top for
00:56the first half of that game but an error from Bailey Hodgson sort of provided the first
01:04chance for Bevan French to score and Edwin Apapé's penalty, Needler's penalty, provided a platform
01:11to get a second just before half-time and from there it was a bit of a defensive masterclass
01:16in the second half, wasn't it, Sam Cooke? Yeah, I think Wigan just was just dominant in
01:24that second half defensively. Lee troubled them but not really. And the thing is, Wigan
01:30hadn't actually troubled Lee that much. They just kind of got opened up on a couple of
01:35little, just errors. I think there's a stat around that, is it about one play of the
01:42ball in the 20 in the first half Wigan had? And yet they scored 14 points. And I think
01:48that's probably why they're a team who win Grand Finals the winter off, is they don't
01:53have to be in the game. But when a moment presents itself, they just switch on and they execute
01:58it. And I think that's what makes them so dangerous. I mean, I'm not, they weren't at
02:04their best, but it's because Lee prevented them from being at their best. Yet they still
02:08found ways to score points and then defended brilliantly. So I think there's a real task
02:13for Hulker next week if they're to get revenge for last year.
02:18Yeah, just, I mean, personally, just the way they defended in that second half has slowed
02:21the rook speed down completely. Obviously, Lee are dependent on that rook speed to get really
02:25anything going at all. Pete, that Jai Smith, Jai Fields, sorry, he's not a bad player, is
02:32he?
02:34Yeah, you'd say probably the second best fullback in the competition after Lucky Miller. Seriously,
02:42no, I mean, Wenfield, who I would imagine will probably get Man of Steel now with Wigan
02:51reaching the grand final. Wenfield and French are in the team. Wigan are just too good. They're
02:58the best team in the comp by far, in my opinion. I know they finished second to Hulker, but they
03:05had a long spell without French and they weren't as dominant. But when those two are together,
03:11it's going to take a very, very good team to beat them. And I think they'll have too much
03:16on the day for Hulker. I'd imagine it will be pretty similar to the league game. I can
03:23see Wigan sort of absorbing a lot of pressure and countering and taking their chances when
03:29they come. It should be an interesting contest. But Wigan have just looked at a different class
03:38over the last few weeks of the season and during the playoffs. And it's hard to see them getting
03:44beaten, I think, particularly on Old Trafford, which is their stage.
03:48Yeah. How big was that tackle on Alan Trout as well towards the end of the game there?
03:54Well, it's just, that's them, isn't it? I mean, they don't give an inch. They never stop.
04:01They're relentless and they've got big plays in them, both defensively and on attack. And
04:06it's big plays that win matches. They're just a really good side when it comes to,
04:13it comes to games, big games, playoffs and cup games generally. Obviously, they had a poor
04:20challenge cup this year crashing out to Hul. But yeah, they're a quality side and a champion
04:28side. And they showed those attributes against Lee, I think, who've had a fantastic season.
04:33I don't think Lee have got anything to approach themselves about, not on the field anyway.
04:39They, to finish third and to get to that stage was a fantastic achievement for them at this
04:46very early stage in their Super League development. But they came up against an extremely good
04:52side. And I don't think there are too many teams over the Super League era who would beat
04:57Wigan in the current form. I think they're that good.
05:00Yeah, Sambi, just a word on Lee. Obviously, incremental improvements now since they've come
05:07up into the Super League. Will they be better for the experience of losing another semi-final
05:13at Wigan?
05:18Yeah, look, they've had, obviously, the Challenge Cup win in 2023. And they've had that big moment,
05:23but they are still very new to being in finals and things like that. So I think just getting that big
05:29match experience, especially against Wigan, who will probably go on to win it, will stand them in
05:34good stead. Like I say, they keep improving. And if they do continue on that trajectory, you know,
05:40who knows, maybe next year is their time for a grand final.
05:42Yeah, so Saturday it was Hull KR 20, St Helens 12. All the pre-match talk was about Hull KR being
05:51tired, gassed, worn out after a long old season of dominating, but they showed absolutely no signs
05:57of that in the first half. I mean, two tries, two controversial tries, possibly forward passes, but
06:05Sam C, Robles were just too good on Saturday, weren't they?
06:09Yeah, I think they really got into the grind straight away. I think similar, almost similar
06:15to what Lee did against Wakefield in the first round of the playoffs. They just, they just
06:19choked St Helens. And I think the fact that St Helens don't have that kicking game to sort
06:25of regain territory as well, just fed into that for KR. I'm not sure. There was long periods
06:30where you weren't even looking to that side of the field. It was all concentrated. And it did
06:37remind me of the intensity of Hull KR of sort of mid-season, when they were just absolutely
06:42monster in teams. And I think Willie Peters has obviously mentioned, or he's kind of reacted
06:48to questions about tiredness. He's kind of shut them down. He's accepted that his team has
06:52been tired and needed the break, but also sort of said, well, look, just watch us. And I think
06:57that performance, particularly in the first half, 12-0, like you said, the tries were maybe a bit
07:03iffy, but 12-0 didn't reflect the dominance. They could have had more. And I think second
07:08half just maybe got a little bit nervy. But I think overall, it's a performance that they'll
07:14be very pleased with to take into a game against Wigan. Whereas I think recent performances
07:20that have been not happy with it whatsoever.
07:23Yeah, just say St Helens asked questions in the second half. We've got two tries on a run,
07:28Dion Crossan and Harry Robertson late on. Do you think almost that's a perfect way to go
07:32into the grand final, having weathered that St Helens storm a little bit?
07:37Yeah, I think it's, they just know that they're going to, they know they're going to have to
07:42execute the chances like Wigan did. And I think it comes down to that more than, I think they'll
07:48back the defence. I think it's just, can they score points against that Wigan team? That's
07:53the question. Because defensively, they've been one of the best in the competition and they
08:00they are quite relentless with that. And it is very structured, but Wigan don't necessarily
08:05play with structure. They'll play a bit off the cuff and they will just punish you in moments.
08:09And it's where the Hull KR can avoid being punished and then also find a way to punish
08:15Wigan, which is a lot harder said than done.
08:17Yeah, Pete, how do we reflect on St Helens' season, how that's come to an end?
08:24Well, they're going to be disappointed, aren't they, with fifth and not reaching a major final
08:33because they have high standards. I think, considering all the injuries they've had and
08:37the disruption, I don't think they've had a bad season at all. They qualified for the
08:44playoffs. They got to a semi-final and they created the moment of the season with the
08:51win at Leeds in the elimination playoff. I think they've obviously got issues. No one
08:59thinks that Paul Wellens is going to be coached next season. There are question marks over his
09:07team selection, particularly in the halves. But, you know, most teams would settle for a
09:13season like that, wouldn't they? But I suppose when you're a club that is used to winning trophies,
09:19it's a disappointment if you don't do that. I think Paul Wellens has come in for some undeserved
09:27criticism, really. I think he's done better than people give him credit for, really. I think he's
09:35a better coach than people give him credit for. But I don't think it would be enough to keep him
09:41in a job, unfortunately. I think if you're going to coach St Helens, you have to win trophies. And
09:47obviously he's not done that. So I would expect them to have a different coach next season.
09:54Yeah, as you say, he has had a lot of criticism and he has come under scrutiny a lot this season. And
09:59probably sometimes, rightly so, sometimes he was hard done by. But I know in St Helens,
10:07the expectations are very high. And as you say, he hasn't won a trophy and that is the expectation.
10:12But externally, was the expectation of St Helens to be in the grand final this year? I probably
10:18don't think so. I probably think he's just about hit par in terms of expectations externally.
10:23But from my point of view, I didn't see St Helens reaching a grand final. Sam, is that fair?
10:31Yeah, I think so. I think last year, you look at where they finished. They finished sixth,
10:34didn't they, I think? And they limped into those playoffs and really were a concern. And you look
10:41at what the recruitment was this season. Signed Saylor, Felt and Lewis Murphy. So they've not added
10:47anything to the pack, which is, it is one of their strengths, but you need to build on strengths.
10:53You can't just leave it stagnant. And then obviously, signed Saylor as a six, which I'm not
10:59sure who's responsible for that. I don't think it's solely Paul Wellens. Obviously, there's a lot of
11:02other elements in that recruitment. But signed him as a six, knowing they've got Jack Willsby,
11:07it's not worked. They've had to move that around. Kyle Felt, whilst he's scored a lot of tries,
11:12a lot of them have come against some of the lower league teams. He's, I think he's been fine,
11:16but I don't think that they're going for the NRL to get like a real big player. He's probably
11:21actually helped a lot in the development of players like Harry Robertson. So he's probably
11:24had a bigger impact there than he has on the field. And then Lewis Murphy's just had a torrid year
11:29of injuries, but they probably signed him knowing that he was an injury risk. So I think it's
11:33per recruitment, more than anything. I think Paul Wellens has kind of, like you say,
11:38got par with what he's been given. And I think if you to expect them to finish any higher,
11:45I mean, realistically, no one thought they were going to finish higher than Wigan or Hull KR.
11:50Leeds, obviously, were a project. Lee, kind of like we said, they're increasing a little bit.
11:55So you probably did expect them to finish in between that third, fourth and fifth. And as it happened,
12:00they were close to third. They could have, a couple of results later on in the season,
12:04has gone against them. But I think it's probably as expected. And I don't think Paul Wellens really
12:10can be held that accountable. I think Lee Brees has been born as the attack coach,
12:14and the attack's not fired yet. It's Paul Wellens who seems to cop the flag for that,
12:19which, obviously, yeah, he is the head coach. He makes the calls. But it's not all on Paul Wellens.
12:25And it just seems to be that he's the scapegoat. And I'm not sure why. When you look at what he has
12:33done, he's made a... They were dead and gone after the loss to Leeds in Magic Weekend.
12:40Everyone had completely wrote them off. And I think in the final 10 games of the season,
12:44they've won seven or eight. They carried that form in one of the games of the season. And they've not
12:51been battered by Hulker either. They were asking questions of him. It's just a couple of...
12:56In the middle of that second half, they just made a couple of consecutive errors. And that's not on
13:01Paul Wellens. That's just players making errors. I don't know how this whole season plays out and
13:08he can be the scapegoat. But I think, like you say, the expectations of St Helens are that they win
13:13trophies and having not won trophies for... Well, since his first game in charge in the World
13:18Club Challenge, it looks like it could be the end.
13:22Yeah, I think you're right to point to recruitment as well. And it's a key period now, obviously,
13:26with... I mean, if the reports are correct, Tim Paul Wellens is going. The new head coach,
13:31obviously, but also a handful of players have announced two already, I think. But they need so
13:39much more. Obviously, James Bell's going. Joe Batchelor's going. Margot Knowles is going.
13:43John Benison's going. Two or three of us as well. That's going to be massive, isn't it?
13:49Sambi?
13:51Yeah, I think it is a key period here for St Helens. They need to get this year of recruitment right.
13:58You know, they've signed Jacob Host, I'm presuming to fill the prop... I'm presuming he's a prop,
14:05so I'm presuming he's replacing someone like James Bell in that role. But yeah, I think Margot Knowles
14:12going is the key factor here. They need someone that level of quality to replace him. Especially
14:19with, you know, the other forwards going as well. We don't know what Curtis Sirianen's doing,
14:23Matt Whitley's doing, players like that. Yeah, I think Paul Wellens, he... Well, we've said it all
14:32ready, aren't we? Sorry, my mind's gone blank. Yeah, the forward pack will be a huge transition
14:42next year. They just need to get that bit of recruitment right.
14:48Yeah, and do you think there's a bit of pressure now as well in terms of...
14:53They've left it late, haven't they? In terms of making a decision, getting a new head coach in.
14:58Do you think they should have been wrapped up months ago?
15:02Yeah, I think... I mean, Paul Wellens' interview on Sky said everything, didn't it? The fact that
15:08he wasn't... He refused to comment on whether he had a future, which implies that he hasn't.
15:15You know, if they were sticking with him, you'd have liked to have thought that they'd have
15:18announced it, you know, earlier in the season. Just to set that pressure off him more than anything.
15:23But, yeah.
15:28No, I think they must have known this months ago. I think they just didn't...
15:34They just didn't back him in the market. And then, obviously, the results have not gone
15:39the way they've gone. And I think their mind was made up probably mid-season.
15:44Paul Wellens has been asked in press conference plenty of times, and he's kind of said that he's
15:48comfortable and that the discussions will take place when they're going to take place.
15:52And it almost feels like that's code for the discussions were never going to take place.
15:56Like, I think he's probably known. I think what needs to be said about Paul Wellens is that
16:02every single time he spoke to the media or just conduct himself, it's always with, like,
16:07the utmost dignity. I think he's one of... We mentioned a couple of weeks ago when the
16:11beat Leeds, like, he's one of the good guys in rugby league. And even his post-match presser on
16:15Saturday, I think he was asked about the future. And he kind of says, look, it's not...
16:21I think he said I'm comfortable or whatever. It's not about me. We've got five or six players
16:26who are leaving. And the important part is now that those players get a few days with their teammates
16:31to kind of sign off. And I think that probably shows what sort of bloke he is. He doesn't
16:38like live for the limelight. I think he just is... He's been hard done by, really. But yeah, I think in terms
16:45of what's next, they must have been looking behind the scenes for a new coach. And if they haven't,
16:50then it just screams of more issues at the top, which is, again, where I think the recruitment
16:56issues come from anywhere. Yeah, just moving on and talking about the championship grand final
17:04yesterday. Pete, you were there for us. Tell us what happened.
17:10It was, from a York point of view, a very disappointing day. I think most people would
17:18probably have fancied York to win, but they were beaten by Toulouse 10-8. York actually scored both
17:24the tries in the game. You don't see that very often. They scored two tries, both converted, but
17:29Toulouse came with a game plan and they stuck to it. They took the two points whenever they got
17:35an opportunity. And York gave them too many opportunities. Five penalty goals, kicked by
17:40Jake Shorrocks. And that was just enough to see Toulouse home. It wins them. Obviously, they're the
17:49champions now. And probably more importantly, 0.25, which doesn't sound very much, does it? But a quarter of
17:57an IMG point, which might well swing it for them to get in the top 12 on the club rankings.
18:05And an automatic place in Super League next year. He'd say that they deserve it as champions.
18:13They've had a fantastic season. They finished only two points behind York on the league table. So
18:19they've been right up there all year. They've got a young, exciting squad, who Sylvain Hula has
18:28said after the match, he thinks they're a lot better prepared now for Super League than they were when
18:32they were promoted three years ago. It's just a case of, is the competition going to accept two French
18:41teams in there. I think it'd be great for the sport if Toulouse were promoted. As for York, I still think
18:48York have done enough to earn a Super League place. They've come a long way in 10 years. They don't
18:57announce their tendencies, unfortunately, but there were about 5,000 there yesterday, as far as we can tell.
19:0310 years ago, York were playing out of the Heweth Amateur Club in front of a few hundred. They've
19:09come a long way. They won 20 games before the grand final defeat, 20 games in a row. They'd finished top
19:17of the table, 1895 Cup winners, and they've got some big plans for recruitment. York is a rugby league
19:23city. I think it would enhance Super League. It's a good stadium. It's not the biggest, it's 8,000 capacity,
19:31but there's a tremendous atmosphere. This isn't a dig at any other club, but the atmosphere was
19:38far better than that. Some Super League clubs like, for example, Huddersfield, who were in a big stadium
19:45and getting four or 5,000 people rattling around in it. It's not a good atmosphere, but it was at York
19:51yesterday. They're heading in the right direction. I think they've earned the right to have a crack at
19:56the top flight, but unfortunately for them, on the day when it really mattered in terms of performance,
20:02they just weren't good enough. Too many errors, too ill, too many penalties given away,
20:11and Toulouse deserved the win on the day.
20:15Yeah, Sam C, like what Pete said there, Toulouse seemingly just earning their spot in Super League
20:22now, especially with the 0.25, but they're going to be really hard to ignore, are they?
20:27It seems to be Toulouse and two others, maybe York one of them, and between Bradford and London,
20:33maybe for the last spot.
20:35Yeah, I think one of the reasons, there's lots of reasons behind the move to 14, but one of them was
20:42the genuine fear among some of the club owners that Toulouse would come up on IMG naturally. I don't
20:49think that certain club owners wanted a sixth of the central funding going to France, where they
20:55believe that they don't get anything back, etc., which, I mean, that's a claim to discuss for another
21:00day, but I think that's one of the reasons why 14 was approved, so that their percentage-wise money
21:05wasn't, not as much was going to France. I think, yeah, they were 13th last year, Salford are going to
21:11lose points, Toulouse are going to gain points. It's, unless someone behind makes a big leap,
21:16Toulouse looked to be in the 12, and then, yeah, you've got effectively a three-horse race between
21:21York, Bradford and London, but London are only being considered, obviously, because of Gary
21:26Hetherington and then the Australian involvement. They finished 10th, I think, on the Championship.
21:32The squad at the moment, if you look at it, it's nowhere near Super League. They've said that they're
21:36going to be bringing in some NRL names, etc., but they've got a lot to do, and I think that's kind of
21:42where this whole process is a little bit, I don't want to use the word shady, but it's because it's
21:47behind closed doors in terms of the independent panel, and you're looking at the sustainability,
21:53the finances, and projections. Projections are kind of a little bit hard to really nail down.
22:00It's, there's not really a, there's obviously numbers behind it, but it's kind of like,
22:07we will do this, we will do that, and you're kind of taking promises. Obviously, those promises,
22:12you say, are more reliable, now you've got that Australian backing, but what, you can't put a London
22:18team up that are going to have the squad comparable to what they have now. They need 10, 20, 10, 15 players,
22:26and I mean, Jordan Williams, one of their props is going to Wakefield. I'm sure they'll have other
22:30players picked away as well. So, I think that their challenge is proving that, and then obviously
22:38Bradford's challenge is, it's just the stadium, isn't it? Like, you can't have that in Super League,
22:44but it seems like that potential is going to be the way. So, yeah, I think Toulouse probably,
22:50the winning that makes it really, really hard to deny them. And if you do deny them, it probably,
22:55I think Sylvan Hills said it's now or never, like, what more can they do? So, and he's right.
22:59If they get ignored now, then it looks like there's an agenda there. But I think it is hard to pick
23:06one of the four teams to not be in there. So, it's got all eyes on next week, really, isn't it?
23:15So, I'd guess that it's going to be Toulouse, probably York, and then it's a coin flip between
23:21Bradford and London.
23:21Yeah, we'll find out Thursday, 16th of October, that decision gets announced. Something that did
23:30get announced today was the Australia squad. 24 players, Sambi. Any surprises there?
23:40Yeah, I think the surprise is the amount of backs that are in the team. They've got eight backs and
23:44only 10 forwards, which is a bit strange. They've also come with four, well, five if you include
23:50Ethan Strange, five halves. But I do think Strange will be playing in the centres to cover Staggs and
23:55Shibasaki. But yeah, I mean, they've just, it's a star-studded squad. Anyone that they were going to
24:01pick was going to be, you know, one of the game's best down under. Yeah, I think it will be a really
24:07exciting series. Nathan Cleary will be the key man with Reece Walsh, who obviously had a great
24:14grand final the other day. Yeah, I think Wembley will be a great first test for England.
24:24Yeah, they've got, England will have to, it'll be the strongest test when Sean Wayne's had in his
24:31England career. And yeah, bring it on. Yeah, bring it on. Let's bring on the grand final then.
24:39So on to Saturday's showpiece event. Look, Rovers have been in big games before. They've
24:45won the Challenge Cup. They've won the League Leader Shield. They know they can beat Wigan now,
24:49having done so in August. Sam C, how big is that? It's massive. And I think I've mentioned
24:56like privately to you recently, I think part of the reason for that sort of lull from rounds 23
25:03through 27 was almost the fact that the beating Wigan in round 22, that was building up to that
25:08was so big. And I think the come down after it was kind of hit them hard. They don't have to worry
25:15about any come down after this. This is it. So I think they can take confidence to the fact that
25:23the most recent meeting is one that they won. And then also, I think Willie Peters has said they're
25:29going to do a lot of things different from last year. They've learned lessons. There's been a big
25:34selection hint that it could be Oliver Gilder rather than Jack Broadbent. I think he's referenced him
25:39as a left centre specialist, whereas obviously Broadbent's more versatile. So I think there's
25:46been lessons learned. And whilst obviously Wigan will still be learning and Wigan are still
25:51Wigan. Hull KR have had the best season possible, really, to give themselves the confidence to do
26:00this. So I think, obviously, I mean, they'll probably be in and around again next year, but this feels like
26:06a big opportunity for them. Because losing back to back grand finals to the same team is
26:13it's going to be devastating if it happens. So I think they kind of have to, again, I don't think
26:19they can use that as the motivation. I think Peters has spoke a lot about if you're using revenge as
26:24a motivation, then you're too focused on your opponents and what they're doing as opposed to
26:29what you're doing. And I think that's been like a big principle this year. Focus on yourself and you're on
26:35high standards. And we kind of saw a return of that on Saturday night against St Helens.
26:40And I think if they carry that forward, maybe get a bit of luck, Wigan maybe just aren't as
26:46quite as perfect as they were Friday, then I think Hull KR will, isn't it?
26:51Yeah, just on those changes. So one of them was Hull KR snubbed the walk through last season,
26:57the day before the game. They will be going to Old Trafford on Friday. I mean,
27:03they're going tomorrow as well as part of the media event, but they'll be going on Friday as well
27:06for a training session on the pitch. Another one, I think Willie thought that they were a bit too
27:13touristy last season. A few to myself is being taken. I think you want to see that change as well
27:19this year. Peters has got a bit of a selection dilemma. Mickey McAlaurin wasn't fit this week,
27:25probably will be fit in inverted commas to play this week. I mean, does he come in? Does Jack
27:34Broadbent go out? Personally, I don't think you need Mickey McAlaurin in there. I think Robbers are
27:41astute enough and sound enough, confident enough to play without that experience. But
27:47Pete, do you play Mickey McAlaurin if you're Willie Peters this week, knowing that he's only half fit?
27:54I don't think so. On the one hand, it's all or nothing, isn't it? So you might say,
28:03well, we'll take a risk. But then again, it's a cup final. And playing players who aren't fit in
28:11cup finals rarely works. We all know one big example of that. In 2005, Keith Senior in the
28:21Challenge Cup final for Leeds against Hull. I think you play your players who are fit. And I wouldn't
28:30pick him, no, not unless he's 100%. I know he's sort of a bit of a talisman. He's in a way,
28:39experienced player and coming at the end of his career, it'd be tough to leave him out. But no,
28:45I wouldn't pick him.
28:46Yeah, I mean, there's a room for sentimentality in a game like this. You know, as you say,
28:51it's the end of his career. I mean, if he plays, it will be the last game of his career.
28:57Is there room for any of that sort of sentimentality, Sambi?
29:01I don't actually think it's sentimentality. I mean, they brought in Mickey Mack and they brought
29:08in Jared Warrior Hargreaves for that big game experience. And then to not play him in these
29:12big games, does that not kind of defeat the point? But I think Mickey Mack, I think he will play.
29:19I think just having a centre on, well, a back on the bench in a grand final is a bit ludicrous,
29:25especially when, you know, these type of games are more forward dominators. I think you just need
29:29that extra middle that will do the defensive work for you. And I think Mickey Mack will be
29:35more determined than ever to, you know, to play in that game and to win, because obviously it is
29:39his last game. He's won two Super League titles already. He'll want a third.
29:46Sam C. Sambi thinks he comes in. Who's the man that drops out then? And it also means that
29:53Jess Letton, the Rovers player of the year, best hooker in the league this year, is in the dream team.
29:58It means that he'll be getting 20, 30 minutes less on the pitch.
30:02Yeah, I actually think it's the right way to go. I think if he's, if he's above 75%, I think it's,
30:08it's the place. I think you're only using Mickey Mack for 20 minutes. I think that's it. He's asked to go do
30:1520 more minutes of his, of his career. That's it. And I think it's worth it for him to set the tone. I
30:20probably agree that it's Broadbent or that it's, the bench I think would be, if Macaloram starts,
30:26would be Lytton, Whitbread, luckily. And then you'd probably look at Reece Martin or Batchelor,
30:34whichever second row doesn't start. And I think it's probably, I'd, that's the way I'd go. I look back
30:41to the, I can't, it was an early, it was the early game, which it was the Hulker's first loss when
30:45they lost to Wigan at home. And it's the game where Macaloram gets injured. And for the opening,
30:53Wigan actually took the lead, but they only took the lead after Macaloram goes down with his injury.
30:58And then Zach Eckersley basically pinched the ball and exposes the fact that Macaloram's,
31:03Macaloram comes across the sideline. They have the scrum set and Wigan see that, shift the ball to that
31:08right, where Macaloram's effectively depending on the wing. And he obviously gets skinned by Zach
31:12Eckersley. But the first 20 minutes of that, even though the score was nil-nil, Hulker were well on
31:17top and Macaloram was a big reason for it. You then get obviously Lytton coming on fresh at 20 minute
31:23mark, which potentially is when Wigan might change their hooker as well. I think that's a lift when
31:29Lytton comes on, because like you say, he's been the best hooker in the competition. So bringing him on,
31:34with Mickey Mac having played that final stint of his career, you get the lift there as well.
31:39You also get the big game experience. And another point to note as well is,
31:43if Jared Warrior-Hardgroves gets a ban, we don't know if he will, but if he does,
31:48then Mickey McLauram in that front row, there's your experience. These hooker players are experienced
31:53enough, but he's one of the genuine winners in that team. So I'd probably be saying you start him
31:59regardless. But if JWH is banned, then I think his case strengthens even more. And I think it
32:05probably is Broadbent who's the unlucky man, because Peter has said he wants that specialist
32:10left centre. And if a centre does get injured, he's proved that he's really happy to play James
32:15Batchelor there as well. So I think that's the way that they'll go. But again, there's obviously
32:20fitness tests to be considered. So I guess we'll see.
32:23Yeah, just on JWH, I think I should probably say it's nearly midday as we're recording this,
32:29and we're still waiting for the match review panel to get any sort of, well, I just got
32:36an email then actually, I thought it was then. We're still waiting for the match review panel
32:39to get back to us this afternoon on that. Because it wasn't a penalty in the game, but
32:46John Benison, I mean, he failed the head injury assessment, didn't he?
32:51Okay. Okay. Well, Wigan looking to win their third grand final in a row. Pete, I mean, I asked
33:00the same sort of question about Rovers, but that experience, they just know how to play at this
33:05time of year, don't they? They know how to play at Old Trafford. They've been there and done it.
33:09It's big for them.
33:10Yeah, I was saying earlier, I just think if we're going to not win it
33:21one year, then they won't lose. I don't think they'll lose it at Old Trafford. I think they'll
33:25lose it in one of the games leading up to that. I think they've just got too much know-how and
33:31experience on the big day, a bit like Leeds were sort of a decade ago. They just know how to win
33:40these games. They've got the experience. They've got the know-how that they used to go in there and
33:51and winning games like this. And very, I think it'd be very, very difficult to beat them in a grand
33:58final. They've not conceded a try in either of the last two, remember. I'm just, I'm just not sure
34:06that Hulke are going to score enough points to win the game. I could, I could see it being, I think
34:12it would be a fairly low scoring game, but I, I think that Wigan will, will come out on top. I mean,
34:19I hope, I hope Hulke will win. Cards on the table because A, it'd be nice to see the Yorkshire team
34:27win it and B, we've not had a new winner since 2004 when Leeds won it. Leeds were the last new
34:33team to win the, win the Super League title. When you think that they've won eight grand finals,
34:38it's just, it's been far too long since we had a new name on the, the trophy. So I hope Hulke will
34:45win it, but I just don't think it's going to happen. Yeah. Bevan French without fail always
34:52turns up in the big games as well. I've seen it this season as well. I mean, look at Vegas,
34:56for example. Sambi, that's, that's a, I mean, he scored the try in the, in the last grand final as
35:02well. Sambi, that's going to be, it's going to be a key, key for Wigan, isn't it?
35:08Yeah, I think it is. And I think that puts the pressure on Mikey Lewis. Wigan have got
35:12that talisman that can do it for him. Hulke, I need Mikey Lewis to step up. I think he performed
35:18quite well against Saints, but he'll have to take it that one step further if Hulke
35:23are out to get the win on there next Saturday. Do you think there are still question marks
35:28over him as a big game player? I think so. Yeah. I think there's not been enough games
35:36for me that Lewis has stepped up in. I know he's still only young in his career, but I mean,
35:42he's been around about five years now, but yeah, I think there's not been enough times where he's
35:47shown that class and we know that he is class. It's just doing it when it matters most.
35:50I think that's a valid point. I still question marks about his big game mentality. I mean,
35:57just look at last year's grand final, for example. He had a poor game and Bevan French
36:01right ran straight through him. You know, I thought, well, we're going to go and try and
36:05pick on him defensively. Even on Saturday, he missed a tackle that led to Dion Cross's try.
36:11I think whether Michael Lewis turns up or not, it could be the key factor for Rovers.
36:18It'd be good to see him have a big game, wouldn't it? Just from an England point of view as well,
36:24and go out and show that he can do it on the big stage with the Ashes coming up in a couple of
36:31weeks' time. But yeah, I think there are question marks over him. I don't think there are question
36:38marks over his ability, but there are over, like you say, his big game mentality and his temperament.
36:45So it's a big, it's a really big one for him personally. But Bevan French on the opposite
36:52side has Super League seen many better players than Bevan French over the years. Not sure there's
37:01been too many better than him. He's so important and so influential and he always rises to the big
37:06occasion. So he's sort of the ace in the side for Wigan without a doubt.
37:14Yeah, Sam Seathen, is this a game that's settled by star players?
37:20I think so. I think also it's settled by kicking game. I think Harry Smith was, Harry Smith's
37:25caught, for some reason, Harry Smith was getting some slander on social media on Friday night,
37:32and I thought he was, obviously there's the one, it's the one pass and I think it looks
37:36like he's going to Walters and he misses it and he kicks out on the full. That moment of
37:39panics maybe skewed people's opinions, but I thought Harry Smith's kicking game was unbelievable.
37:44Wigan obviously then, he pins Lee in that first half, which is why they're constantly playing
37:52out of their half and Wigan can capitalise. And then the second half when they've got the lead,
37:57I don't think they were ever going to lose it with Harry Smith. And I think that's something
38:02that Hulk here maybe don't have as well, have quite as much. Jeslitt and Mikey Lewis and even Tyrone
38:07I mean, they all kind of share the kicking duties. But I think their kicking needs to be
38:13near perfect. And I think, so that comes down to all three of those key players.
38:19Because I think Wigan can just, Wigan will match you defensively and they'll, they don't panic.
38:25We referenced a couple of weeks ago, Leeds kind of were trying to force things. Wigan will just wait.
38:31They'll know that you're going to make a mistake. They'll know that they can force a mistake.
38:34Liam Farrell forces that mistake on Bailey Hodgson. Harry Smith's kick forces Edwin
38:39Opape to have his moment where he goes, runs across the line of Bevan French. And then obviously,
38:44they get the penalty and then they score from the kickoff on that one. Wigan will force you to make
38:50mistakes. They don't need to chase a game. Hulk AR need to then counter that by controlling it with
38:56a kicking game, with that fast rook speed that they get from Lytton as well. I think it comes down to
39:03your big men like Lytton, Lewis, May, even like Minchella in the pack, just orchestrating
39:08little things as well. I think Hulk AR need to be near perfect. Whereas I think Wigan can kind of
39:15just wait on field or French, unless obviously we see what we've just said. And Mikey Lewis has
39:21his sort of breakout big game, in which case then it's anyone else to play for.
39:25Yeah. And let's not forget as well that, I mean, history will remember Hulk AR won the
39:31Challenge Cup final, but it wasn't a good performance by Rovers and a better team on that
39:35day would have, would have beaten Hulk AR. So again, the pressure's on them to, to handle that and,
39:41and, and, and, and, you know, respond.
39:44Do you call that?
39:45Who do you call that pressure? Is it more pressure to go and get a treble or is it more pressure to
39:49go and get a three-peat? It's got to be Hulk AR right, hasn't it? Because people are asking the
39:55questions about Hulk AR.
39:56I think the pressure's on Hulk AR, yeah.
39:58And he does.
40:02Yeah, yeah. Come on then. Cards on the table, predictions.
40:05I'll go, I'll go Wigan by 10. I think it's going to be quite a comfortable night for him.
40:14I'll go Wigan sort of 14, 8, 14, 14, 10. I think it's, it's a sort of three to two try
40:22game is in my opinion.
40:27Oh, right. Then, well, I think, all right, I'm going to go 9, 2 to Wigan.
40:33Repeat.
40:34Same as last year.
40:35All right, no, I'll make it 11. Yeah, I'll make it 11. 11, 2, then.
40:43But the one, I don't think, I don't think it'd be a high story.
40:47Yeah?
40:48Yeah, I think Wigan are too strong. I'll go Wigan by one. I'll make it interesting.
40:54Yeah. Right. From one grand final to another, then, just want to touch on the women's grand
41:00final from last night. Sam, have you watched that? Give us a, well, Sam B.
41:05Give us a rundown of what happened.
41:09Yeah. Again, Wigan showed the class as they have done all season. I think Saints definitely
41:15learned from that Challenge Cup final where they were beaten well. I mean, to, I mean,
41:20only losing by four points showed that they were still in the game. I think it was a late
41:26try, kind of. But yeah, I mean, Wigan just capped off their successful season. And I know I kind of
41:33gave Saints a bit of criticism last week, but it still has been a decent season for them. They've
41:39just had that Challenge in Wigan that they hadn't had before. And it's just, there's another big name
41:44on the table now.
41:46All right. That will do us. Thanks for joining us. If you could like this video and subscribe to the
41:54channel, that would be much appreciated. If you are going to the grand final, hope you have a
41:58fantastic time. I hear tickets are flying out. We'll be there. Obviously we'll be building up to it all this week.
42:05I mean, Pete won't be for obvious reasons, but yeah. I mean, if you are going, it'll be a fantastic time.
42:15Thanks for joining us and we'll be here next Monday to dissect the grand final. Thank you very much.
42:27Thanks for joining us. Please like and share, and we'll see you next week.
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