- 4 months ago
ASEAN’s influence in the Ukraine conflict and broader global diplomacy is shaped by its non-linear, pragmatic, and consensus-driven approach, reflecting the diversity of its member states’ foreign policy orientations and strategic interests.
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00:00Terima kasih kerana menikmati kami. Ini adalah The Economy with me, Ibrahim Sani.
00:11Saya berada di sidelines di Kuala Lumpur World Trade Center di Kuala Lumpur,
00:15menerima ke-46th General Assembly of the ASEAN Interparlamentary Assembly, or AIPAR.
00:21Ini berkongsi dengan konferenasi-kongsi yang berlaku sepanjang tahun ini.
00:26bersama saya hari ini adalah dua pemerintah parliaments dari Ukraina,
00:32a good friend dari Malaysia, of course.
00:34Di sebelah saya adalah Tamila Tasheva.
00:38She is a member of the parliament of Ukraine.
00:41She is also the head of the subcommittee on the restoration of state authority and local self-government.
00:47And she is also a member of the committee of the organization of state of power,
00:51local government, regional development and urban planning.
00:54And to her left is Alexander Mareshko,
00:57the chairman of the committee of the foreign affairs and interparlimentary ties of the Verkhovna Radha of Ukraine.
01:04He is also a member of parliament and a servant of the people there.
01:08Thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us.
01:11We have covered a few leaders of Ukraine over the past few years,
01:16especially after the Russian aggression has started.
01:19and we also like to take this opportunity to express our thanks to members of the Ukrainian delegates
01:26to come over and have a discussion with us,
01:29not just on the recent developments of your country,
01:33but of course how we can strengthen the ties between Ukraine and ASEAN and of course of Malaysia.
01:37Maybe we can start off with Tamila first.
01:40Being a member of the Tartar background,
01:45how does this play in terms of your relationship with the role that you carry right now
01:52as the head of the committee,
01:55or member of the committee of the local self-government and power?
01:59And what kind of lessons and takings can you get from attending this conference
02:05in the ASEAN Interparlimentary Conference here in KL?
02:08First of all, thank you for inviting.
02:10It's for us an honor to be presented here in Kuala Lumpur and in your TV show.
02:17You absolutely correctly say that I am Crimean Tartar.
02:22I am from a small Muslim community in Ukraine,
02:27originally from Crimea,
02:28which is unfortunately occupied in 2014 by Russia,
02:33and all this aggression started in 2014,
02:37even not in 2020,
02:39too, and unfortunately my community
02:42started to leave a region in Crimea,
02:46different, another country, third countries,
02:48and of course to the mainland of Ukraine.
02:51and that is why we start different actions,
02:55activities around our ethnical minority.
03:03And actually we have a lot of ties
03:06between Malaysia and Eastern Asia countries,
03:13actually because you have also here
03:16a lot of Muslims who live here historically.
03:22And Islam, for example,
03:24in Ukraine, in Crimea precisely,
03:27was from a 13th century.
03:31We have a lot of mosques in our region,
03:33and that is why when we communicate
03:36with our partners and allies from this region,
03:40they really understand us
03:42when we explain that Ukraine
03:44is supporting our minorities,
03:49that we support our Muslim community in Ukraine.
03:52For example, my president, President Zelenskyy,
03:55he, during a few years,
03:57adopted different, very important documents
04:01on the level of the president.
04:03with the support of the ethnic minorities in Ukraine
04:06and religious communities in Ukraine.
04:10He, for example, organized iftars for the Muslim community,
04:14and he prayed and ate during Ramadan time
04:19with the soldiers who are also from the Muslim community.
04:25and that is why we think that we, as a Ukraine,
04:29we are a very tolerant country.
04:31We support all these minorities
04:35and different communities.
04:38What about the process of, say, for instance, higher education?
04:42We've seen a lot of Muslim students from Crimea
04:46also would like to extend their studies here in Malaysia.
04:51Do you think that that would be an angle
04:52to further deepen as well?
04:53Absolutely.
04:54Absolutely.
04:55It's very important.
04:56And actually, last year, our first lady, Olena Zelenskyy,
05:01she established a global coalition of Ukrainian studies
05:05because it's very important to explain
05:08and to understand Ukraine through the Ukrainian lens.
05:11Because during many, many years,
05:14Ukraine was explained by, for example, Slavic studies,
05:22Eastern European studies, but not Ukrainian studies.
05:25that is why our first lady, she established such kind of Ukrainian studies.
05:30And we hope, of course, that in Malaysia, Indonesia,
05:36and in all regions, we could open such kind of studies for Ukraine
05:44with Ukrainian language or, for example, language of indigenous people,
05:48such as Crimean Tatars, for example.
05:51and we have some different discussions with our partners from this region.
05:57And we hope that in the nearest future we open such kind of courses or classes
06:05with the study of history of Ukraine and Crimea, Crimean Tatars,
06:11indigenous studies.
06:12I think it's important to our communication and connection
06:20between our countries.
06:21We'll take a pause on that.
06:23Let's move on to Alexander.
06:26Lest we forget, there is still a war that is ongoing.
06:29Maybe you can brief us or bring up to date in terms of the situation there.
06:33And how does this play in terms of how you are bringing that message across
06:37to the delegates here attending this ASEAN meeting?
06:41Yeah, it's been more than three years, three and a half,
06:45even more years of the full scale Russian aggression.
06:49but the war had started in the year 2014.
06:52So it's been 11 years of the war, brutal war waged by Russia against Ukraine.
06:57Of course, the situation is difficult because Russia has huge resources,
07:03manpower and lots of weaponry.
07:05And it's supported by such countries as, for example, North Korea or Iran
07:11and economically by China.
07:12So we're dealing with a huge coalition of countries fighting against Ukraine and supporting Russia.
07:19But for me, first of all, it's a matter of international law because I'm international lawyer.
07:23It's about a kind of concern for each country, including Malaysia.
07:29We're talking about such sacred principles of international law as principle of sovereignty,
07:33respect for sovereignty, territorial integrity,
07:37non-use of force in international relations.
07:39And no matter how difficult it is for us now, we know that we're fighting for global security.
07:46We're fighting for peace in the world.
07:49and we're fighting for international law.
07:52And I hope that we can rely also on support of your country in this regard.
07:56And of course, Malaysia as well as ASEAN wants to see better resolution in terms of coming up from this.
08:03For both of you, what has been the reception been like, considering that you are now
08:09speaking to a few delegates here, not just from ASEAN but across the world?
08:12The kind of support or the kind of explicit, I guess, notion that they are expressing,
08:22are you, I guess, satisfied with the kind of responses?
08:25Or do you want countries to do a little bit more in terms of finding a more peaceful resolution from this war?
08:33There are different kinds of support, first of all.
08:36We need, for example, military assistance because Russia, each day, each night,
08:42bombards shells Ukrainian citizens, including Ukrainian capital.
08:47Each, virtually each day, we have civilian casualties.
08:50And it's natural that we need, first of all, weapons.
08:54We need air defense systems to protect our civilian population.
08:58And we understand that different countries can provide different kinds of support.
09:02It might be diplomatic support when a country is voting at the General Assembly
09:07or the UN in support in favor of territorial integrity of Ukraine or against Russian aggression.
09:14It's also very, it's immensely important, diplomatic support.
09:18We need economic support, political support, because Russia has destroyed a huge chunk of our economy
09:25and continues to kill us, to destroy us.
09:28That's why each country, including, of course, Malaysia, can do something important, can support us politically.
09:36Even when you raise this issue in your TV program, it's incredibly important
09:41because you make people living in Malaysia aware of what's going on.
09:45You're telling them the truth.
09:47It's important for us because we rely on truth and on international law.
09:55Malaysia might not be too familiar with the ongoing, the current ongoing right now, day to day.
10:02But prior to doing this interview, I asked many of my colleagues about the situation in Ukraine,
10:08whether or not they're familiar.
10:09They are, but not to that extent or detail.
10:12But what they are familiar is President Zelensky's visit to the White House, now twice.
10:17The first one was as bizarre as it gets, I presume, even for Ukrainian delegates as well.
10:25But the second one seems to be a little bit more cordial and seems to see some form of progress.
10:31Do you seek more support from the US, or is it time for us to talk about trying to galvanize
10:37and support from elsewhere across the world, including that of ASEAN?
10:41Yes, thank you. I also answer for your first question actually.
10:46We really absolutely support and really appreciate for all support from this region and from Malaysia
10:56also, of course, and for all resolution which is supported by Malaysia and ASEAN countries.
11:06It's important for Ukraine. We always follow all the situation and all these
11:12voting from your region. It's important for us because now we try to communicate
11:20more than we do it in the past with the region. And we, for example, we now open our embassy in the
11:28Philippines. It's also important for the region because we have in Malaysia and Indonesia. Now we have
11:36in the Philippines before we have in Thailand, of course, our representatives. Of course, also important
11:46to thinking about what has happened after a war actually. And we're interested to cooperate in
11:54in the economic sphere and especially when we say about Malaysia, about medical sphere. For example,
12:01we have, you have in Malaysia really a very strong this sphere of economic economy and we're really
12:10interested for that. Of course, from our side, we also interested too about all these agricultural issues.
12:20Unfortunately, because of a war, because Russia control the Sea of Black Sea and these ports,
12:29which is now closed, they use it to block our grain corridor. With the block, it somehow, because
12:38we destroyed one half part of Russian Black Sea Fleet. But even now it's very complicated. And
12:47and if I answer for your question about our cooperation and support from United States, we really
12:54appreciate the United States that they support us from very beginning, from 2014, of our territorial integrity
13:03and sovereignty. And of course, they give us military support, financial support. Now we have some
13:12complicated issue with military support. But now we are waiting for another packages of military support.
13:22And especially it's important air defense system for Patriots, because you see how in Ukraine now all
13:31this missile attacks against our civil infrastructure. It's really complicated in autumn and in winter, because
13:40they destroyed this infrastructure for Ukraine. And it's for all our people it's a very difficult situation.
13:51Of course, now with the United States we always communication between Ukraine and between United States.
14:03we really appreciate for European Union countries that they actively involved in this communication between
14:11our countries. And of course, we hope that in the nearest future we will have the situation when we
14:22get the ceasefire. What about winter is coming and energy consumption is going to be
14:28soaring. This is the third winter after the war? The fourth winter. What is the situation like when it comes to energy
14:41consumption and energy procurement now that this is the fourth winter? Is it stabilizing? How are you
14:49procuring your energy, especially when it comes to your portfolio of town planning and similar?
14:53Now we have electricity, of course, and just now we don't have a problem such kind of problem. But
15:02because of we have a lack of air defense system and we do not protect the sky, Russia targetly destroyed our civil
15:18infrastructure including electricity. That is why we understand that if they continue to destroy it in the
15:31mid of autumn and in the winter we have a huge problems with electricity for civilians but not only for
15:40else so far economic. What about your view on this topic? Same question to Tanya.
15:49Yeah, the thing is that, for example, two years ago the situation was truly dramatic because we had lots of blackouts
15:57and we had huge problems with electricity with power in virtually all cities of Ukraine including Kyiv which is the capital of Ukraine.
16:05Ukraine. But luckily our ministry of energy, our system, our power grid, we managed to get adapted
16:15to this abnormal situation and we had to be very creative, very ingenious. And last winter it was
16:23pretty much okay in terms of we didn't have many blackouts at that time. But Russia's goal is to break our
16:30will. Our will to resist, to defend our country. Even if it means breaking international law such as
16:37targeting human, sorry, civilian infrastructure for propaganda and for war means. Yeah, absolutely.
16:45Because I'm as an international lawyer I can confirm this that it's to target civilian objects is a war
16:53crime. It's a serious war crime. Russia is doing it deliberately. They want to, they themselves are saying
16:59that they want to bomb us into caves. And that's what they're doing. That's why we call this war
17:05genocidal war. It's colonial war, it's imperialist war, but it's also genocidal. Because when you deliberately
17:11destroy conditions for existence for the whole nation, you are committing a genocide, a crime of genocide.
17:19But I'm hopeful about our engineers, about our specialists who are dealing with our power grid.
17:26and we're ready for the worst case scenario that again, we'll have blackouts. It will be difficult,
17:32especially during winter. You can imagine when you don't have much light and you need electricity
17:38to cook. For example, I have two small children and we had problems with cooking milk, for example,
17:44for children. But we're prepared. And the thing is that no matter how hard Putin, Russia is trying to
17:50destroy us, it only sort of boosts our morale, our determination to resist. Because we know that
17:58we're dealing with a pure evil. We'll take a short break. When we continue on, we'll discuss a little
18:04bit more in terms of how we can build better ties with Ukraine. I will be back after these messages.
18:20things. Thanks for staying on with us. Uh, this is, uh, the economy. Uh, we're taping this, uh,
18:32interview, uh, while attending the 46th, uh, General Assembly of the ASEAN Inter-Parliamentary Assembly,
18:38or AIPA, part of the ASEAN, uh, conversations that's going to take place throughout the year. Uh, with me, uh,
18:44two member of parliaments of Ukraine. Uh, Alexander, let's talk about the, uh, development after the
18:50war, what, uh, your colleague was mentioning earlier, uh, before the break just now. Uh, we want to look
18:55at economic development. We also want to look at, uh, education as part of the main pillars of, uh,
19:01our collaboration between our two countries. Uh, lest we forget that, uh, many of our medical, uh,
19:06doctors here today were trained in Ukraine. Uh, but, uh, because of, uh, the, uh, war, I can confirm
19:12that my colleagues, uh, at the Ministry of Higher Education, uh, has paused sending Malaysian students
19:17there. Uh, these are the things that we want to look at. Yes, you spoke of the Russians want to break
19:23your will, uh, targeting civilian infrastructure and objects, uh, breaking international war and war crimes.
19:30uh, while these issues are being resolved and while the war is still happening, there are a lot
19:36that can be talked about when it comes to what are the possibilities. Breaking a resolve, uh, of the
19:42Ukrainian people means to not talk about the dreams and aspirations of your country. What would be the
19:46long-term planning that you have, uh, that you want to share with the folks here in Malaysia watching
19:51this, uh, uh, conversation of ours? Uh, despite difficult situation, despite the huge damage done by
19:57Russia to our economy, which has exceeded, uh, 500 billion US dollars and is growing, unfortunately.
20:04But despite all these facts, we remain hopeful when we're talking about rebuilding or reconstruction
20:11of our country. We already have held a number of international conferences and lots of investors
20:17have already concrete ideas, concrete projects to help Ukraine. And, uh, when we talk about this,
20:24and not only talk when we're doing this, it gives hope for our people. It boosts our morale.
20:30Uh, it creates very interesting prospects for ours. And, you know, despite difficult conditions of war,
20:37we have to think about future. And, uh, interestingly, uh, we have lots of examples, uh, when some countries,
20:44uh, they have sort of kind of patronage over a certain region in Ukraine. I can give you, um, two examples.
20:52Estonia, uh, one of the regions, uh, Zhitomirsky region or oblasts in Ukraine. Estonian, uh, Estonians help
21:00a lot to develop, uh, economy. They are trying to help to build schools, hospitals, and so on.
21:05Another example is the city, uh, Mykolaiv. Uh, and, uh, Denmark. Denmark helps a lot. They, uh, help, uh,
21:14to do concrete things. For example, to, to rebuild a hospital or, uh, to create something related
21:20to purification of water for people living in this city. So we have these examples and we have,
21:27we have more and more such examples. The, the thing about diplomacy is that, uh, third, uh,
21:36party members or third actors, state actors, they try to be as neutral as possible. And, and such is the
21:44way diplomacy works. But more and more countries are now taking a side. And, and it is taking
21:51Ukrainians' side. Uh, do you see this as a momentum in terms of how this, uh, aggression is going to end
21:58and how you can build your country forward? Do you feel that many more countries need to do a little
22:04bit more in terms of assisting Ukraine, be it military assistance, economic assistance,
22:10uh, human capital assistance, or any sort of idea of how they can, uh, uh, lend the support of, uh,
22:17Ukraine? And do you feel that isolating Russia is the only way forward, uh, in terms of making this,
22:23uh, uh, conflict and, and, and as fast as possible? Yeah. The truth is that we have very clear cut
22:31situation. We have a crime of aggression committed by the aggressor, one state, Russia,
22:37against the victim of the aggression, which is Ukraine. And, uh, you cannot be neutral, uh, before
22:43this crime, uh, because when you help the victim, you are acting in line in support of international
22:50law. Uh, when you support the aggressor by, for example, buying Russian oil and gas and feeding
22:56thereby Russian war machine, you are acting virtually in, in violation of international
23:02legal order, at least. So that's why it's important, uh, to, to keep in mind this, this fact. Uh, and of
23:09course, uh, we want to rely on, on more support, economic support, uh, from different countries,
23:16especially from this strategically important region, uh, for Ukraine, because Asia, uh, plays extremely
23:23important geopolitical role. And this role is growing. And of course, uh, these countries,
23:29by helping the victim of the aggression, they can help to bring peace closer.
23:35And actually, uh, I will add about economical development and, uh, restoration, reconstruction
23:41of Ukraine. Uh, we organize a conference, uh, last, it's in, in, in Rome, in Italy,
23:49with, uh, our allies and actually, uh, who joined this conference, not only, for example, United States
23:58or, uh, European countries, also some countries from, uh, Arab Gulf, for example, Persian Gulf, uh, also
24:07invited and they visit this conference and thinking about, uh, how they could develop this cooperation
24:15between Ukraine and their countries. And we really appreciate for this, uh, support. And I totally
24:22agree that one of the topic of cooperation, it could be education. One, uh, issue I, uh, actually mentioned
24:30this coalition of global coalition of Ukrainian studies, but also it's education, which is a
24:36traditional lecture from, uh, uh, from, uh, your country, uh, from Indonesia, from India, for example, uh, who
24:46all the students studied, uh, in, uh, our medical universities or, for example, uh, also in some technical
24:56universities. And we could also develop this cooperation between our, uh, countries in the future. And also,
25:04of course, we are really interested, uh, for economical, uh, development, uh, because it's,
25:10you have a huge, uh, economy, uh, um, in Malaysia and which, uh, which is, uh, absolutely growing up, uh,
25:18from, uh, year to year. That is why we're really interested in that after a war, uh, we could, uh, cooperate more
25:27closely, but, uh, actually Ukraine do it in a parallel. Uh, at one hand, we very actively, uh,
25:35communicate and involve our allies for the support of Ukraine during a war time. And the second, and
25:42another hand, we're thinking about different projects. And, uh, Mr. Alexander, he's mentioned
25:48about that, uh, what has happened after, uh, war, it's, uh, ending. Yeah. Let's talk about that,
25:55that parallel pathway that we, uh, that, that, that we can expound on. That building of economy,
26:01uh, there's a lot that can be said about, uh, Ukrainians, say, for instance, technology sector,
26:06energy sector. Are these areas going to see, uh, a lot of focus when it comes to rebuilding the
26:13Ukrainian economy? And if so, how does Malaysia or ASEAN countries can participate more, uh, in,
26:19uh, looking into these two areas of growth? Uh, actually, for example, IT sphere, uh, which is, uh,
26:27very actively, uh, developed in, uh, Ukraine now, and especially mill tech technologies. Uh, I know
26:36that many countries from, uh, this region, very interesting, uh, in our seed loans, which is,
26:43uh, uh, uh, very unique for... Sorry, sea drones. Sea drones. Sea drones, yes. Like drones in the ocean or lakes.
26:49Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Okay. And it's interesting technology. Uh, we, um, use it against
26:58Russian Black Sea Fleet. And, uh, for example, in 2023, when we don't have very, um, um, high, you know,
27:08this, um, counter-offensive operation on the land. Yeah. But we have a lot of successes in the sea,
27:16in Sea of Azov and Black Sea. And we really destroyed half of Russian Black Sea Fleet. When you use this sea
27:24drone, uh, in Black Sea or Sea of Azov and destroyed all the very big, uh, ships, military ships of Russia,
27:35you know, that is why, uh, countries from your region, uh, as we understand, as we, as we know,
27:42uh, really interesting, uh, in these technologies, because it's a, it's a future technologies. Uh, we are, uh,
27:48on the, uh, uh, very actively, uh, develop, uh, drawn, uh, technologies. Uh, I can see the application
27:57here in this part of the world because many of our countries, uh, islands and, and ocean, uh, uh,
28:05engulfed. Uh, so definitely I see. And of course, not just military application, but of course, uh,
28:11civilian and economic applications as well. Yes, yes, absolutely. That is why it's, uh, one of the
28:17areas where we could cooperate, uh, and develop our, uh, this, uh, ties and cooperation. Uh, medical
28:24sphere I mentioned, uh, before, and, uh, all, uh, issue which related to, uh, uh, leaky, uh, medicine.
28:34Yeah. Uh, because it's very actively developed in Malaysia and we really also interesting for that.
28:40What about, uh, your, your view on this matter? Yeah, I completely agree because,
28:45you know, first of all, Ukraine is known as a bread basket of Europe and we are one of the biggest
28:50producers of agriculture products. So we can, uh, feed the whole world to put it figuratively. So,
28:57and, uh, we invite investments. Uh, recently we have opened our land market. So, and it became very
29:05lucrative, very attractive for foreign investors. Actually, that was the last part of the conversation
29:09that I want to draw. Investments into Ukraine, both, uh, public investments as well as private,
29:14uh, companies and private investments. And, and where is the trajectory on that?
29:18Uh, well, uh, first of all, of course, uh, lots of, we have lots of interest, lots of potential
29:24investors. Uh, they understand that in conditions of war, it might be problematic, but they're prepared
29:29to come as soon as, uh, there will be peace in Ukraine. So, and due to the war, we have developed
29:36military industrial complex, like sea drones, like all kinds of drones and turned out to be that
29:42even the United States is interested in buying Ukrainian drones. So we, uh, made quite a headway,
29:49uh, well, in difficult conditions because of the war, but you know, we became one of the leaders in
29:54this regard. Uh, Ukraine has huge potential, economic potential, and that's why lots of investors are
30:02interested in Ukraine. And, uh, for example, we can cooperate with Malaysia in terms of microchips.
30:11It's another area because we are talking not only about rebuilding, we are talking about
30:15transformation of our economy to made it, to make it high tech, a cutting edge and to use, uh, the newest
30:22technologies to rebuild our country. And of course, human capital development is actually quite crucial
30:27here. Not just in high tech, uh, high-end technology training, but of course, social studies
30:34as well, uh, such as, um, international law, war crime, uh, international diplomacy, and the like.
30:42That there's a lot that can be used as case study, actual, um, events that are currently ongoing,
30:49how this will, uh, uh, transpire over the next few years, and the decades later on, on, on, on how we
30:55look at, uh, generational improvements and generational suffering that has happened over
31:00the past few years. This definitely would be a critical factor of our countries to actually
31:06collaborate even further, that human capital, uh, uh, development. Where do you see Ukraine and
31:10Malaysia foster our strength here in this regard? Well, um, in all areas, uh, including education,
31:17system of education. I, for example, remember that before the full-scale invasion, you could see,
31:22uh, at our medical schools, at our medical universities, lots of foreign students, many
31:28students, for example, from India, and they were interested in, in this, uh, uh, ecological tourism.
31:34It was extremely popular. People from, uh, Saudi Arabia would come gladly to Ukraine, to western part,
31:41which is very colorful, very picturesque, very beautiful part. They enjoyed, uh, this kind of tourism.
31:48So, um, we have, uh, tremendous prospects. But first of all, of course, we need peace. And, uh,
31:54I believe, uh, that, uh, the fate of humankind depends on Ukraine right now, because it's, it's about,
32:01uh, creating precedent. It can be very, uh, uh, positive or very dangerous precedent. If the aggressor
32:08is not punished, but rewarded with the territorial concessions, it might destroy the whole, uh, security
32:15system, including Asia. It's very dangerous for Asia. Uh, but if we have positive example,
32:21positive, uh, precedent when the violator of international law is not rewarded, but punished,
32:28then, uh, then humankind has future, and there will be more peace and more security all over the world.
32:34and we saw the, sorry. Yes, I will add also, uh, very important this, uh, human to human,
32:41people to people ties. And I remember that during few years in Ukraine, we organized a very important
32:48conference, which is called Crimea, uh, Crimea Global Understanding Ukraine Through the South. Uh,
32:55when we invited to Ukraine, uh, a lot of, uh, different experts from the region, um, and journalists
33:03also, uh, it's more than 40 people from countries of Africa, Asia, Latin America, and from Malaysia,
33:11some participants also. And I hope that this year also, uh, will participate. And I remember, uh, these
33:21discussions, uh, about international law, about our experience, about, for example, our colonial experience
33:28and experience of Asian countries, also colonial experience and past, and we really understand that
33:36we have more, uh, um, more, uh, issues which is unite us than divide it. Yeah. Uh, the next type of
33:47conversation I want to ask is on the Russian resolve. Uh, Alexander, you were mentioning just now
33:51conscriptions from North Korea, from China. Um, what we also understand here in Malaysia is that the
33:58conversation that is currently happening, uh, in Russia is, uh, it, they're getting the wrong kind
34:04of information as well. I'm talking about the Russian population. Where is that situation, uh, at right
34:11now? And do you see that as a, as a resolving situation soon or it's going to exacerbate even further
34:17the situation inside Russia? Well, as far as I know, um, uh, the situation, economic situation in Russia
34:23is getting more and more difficult and, uh, the cracks are showing in the economy. They're starting
34:28to have such phenomena as techflation, for example, and, uh, they, their potential is being exhausted,
34:36uh, by the war. Even though Russia is a big country economically, it used to be, uh, powerful, but
34:42interestingly, it, uh, has already lost its title of great power because, uh, they are unable to destroy
34:50Ukraine to subjugate Ukraine. So they're not, uh, it's, it's a huge geopolitical shift by the way.
34:56Russia is not a great power anymore. Economically, it will be more and more difficult for Russia and
35:02Putin, this is one of the reasons why he doesn't want to stop the war. Because for him to stop the war
35:07means, uh, uh, to get rid of this huge distractor for Russian society. If imagine situation when, uh,
35:15Russia agrees to peace, uh, it will put in great danger Putin stay in power because Russian
35:22population will immediately start paying more attention to internal economic, social, political
35:27problems. And of course, it will create very dangerous situation for Putin. That's why,
35:31unfortunately, he is not interested in peace. And that's why, uh, if we want peace, we need to put
35:37maximum pressure on Putin. And it can be done by all the countries, including Malaysia, of course.
35:43that's why your voice is so important for us. That's why we're talking, uh, that you can also
35:49contribute to bringing peace to Ukraine by exerting maximum pressure on, on the aggressor.
35:55Uh, final question would be on your takeaways from attending this conference at, uh, the ASEAN
36:00Interparliamentary Assembly or IPA. What would be the one or two things that you're looking forward to,
36:05uh, attending this conference and your takeaway so that, uh, we can actually better understand,
36:09uh, your expectations of this conference. Uh, maybe we can start with Tamila.
36:13It's not my first time in Malaysia and in region. Uh, and for me, uh, important to develop this
36:20cooperation between our countries. Uh, you have a brilliant people. It's, uh, we see all this empathy
36:29when we say that we are from Ukraine. And of course, we are really interesting for, uh, economical, uh,
36:36cooperation and development, uh, in the future. But, uh, we understand that even now we could do
36:43something for our closer cooperation, for example, in educational sphere.
36:49Alexander? Uh, the, the reason saying that 19th century was a century of Europe, 20th century
36:56was a century of America, but 21st century, uh, is a century of Asia. So it's also, we can say,
37:03the, the century of ASEAN countries. That's why strategically for us, it's extremely important
37:08region. For me, uh, ASEAN and this Interparliamentary organization is a kind of platform for
37:14communication with the countries, which are members of ASEAN, with the countries,
37:19which have status of observer. So we have lots of bilateral meetings, which help us to understand
37:25each other, which help us to explain, uh, our situation, to attract attention. And, uh, we see
37:32a huge potential in developing relations with the ASEAN countries. First of all, with Malaysia, of course.
37:37that's a fantastic way to end the conversation that just now you just heard Alexander Mahrezko. Uh,
37:44he is, uh, the member of parliament at Ukraine, and of course, the chairman of the committee of foreign
37:49affairs. Uh, and earlier on, you just heard from Tamila Tashiva, uh, the parliamentary,
37:54member of parliament, uh, of Ukraine as well, and the, uh, head of the subcommittee on the restoration
37:59of the state authority and local self-government in Ukraine. Uh, please stay on with us at
38:05Astrawani as we cover a lot more of this, uh, conversation moving forward. But for now,
38:10uh, I'm Brahim Sani signing off for The Economy.
38:35Thank you.
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