- 4 months ago
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00:00:00Welcome to The Football Show on PLZ Soccer YouTube channel. I'm Peter Martin, Gordon Parks and Alison McConnell here with me on the show today.
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00:01:10So, Premier Sports Cup takes the main focus of our attention as ever.
00:01:17We tend to, Alison, before we talk about this, and somebody will mention it, we tend to change our backdrop just to try and make Partsy look great.
00:01:26We're changing it on a weekly basis now.
00:01:28We're changing it to compliment our guests.
00:01:29Yes, I don't think there's been a backdrop invented to achieve that goal.
00:01:33It was Partsy's Demands, purple M&Ms and a change of backdrop.
00:01:37Silver hair looks great with his background.
00:01:41So, give us your thoughts on the Premier Sports Cup and, of course, all the noise that surrounds Scottish football.
00:01:46It's never too far away from controversy.
00:01:48We'd love to hear from you on that as well.
00:01:50Patrick Thistle against Celtic.
00:01:52And Brendan Rodgers came out, and this is what he had to say ahead of the game with regards to the crisis that's going on.
00:01:59Well, this is not a crisis, according to Brendan.
00:02:02There is the noise that Celtic is in crisis.
00:02:04It absolutely is not.
00:02:06But we're not at our best, but everything that is happening is natural with the changes we made and with the players adapting and coming in late.
00:02:15Our duty is to make sure we still win games and the players are doing that.
00:02:19You can see that togetherness is there.
00:02:21Ultimately, you want that within every sector of the club.
00:02:24But the supporters know that they are there to support the team.
00:02:29Well, with that in mind, I think he's absolutely right.
00:02:34I don't think the club is in crisis.
00:02:36It's certainly soulless.
00:02:38I think the board is more intent in cashing in rather than connecting with the supporters.
00:02:43And I think the board certainly don't share communication, strategy or indeed the ambition of the supporters at the moment.
00:02:52I think there's a real disconnect.
00:02:53I think the mid-music at Celtic was always defined by Europe.
00:02:58And I think the wind came out at the sails far too early.
00:03:02Exiting the Champions League is a crisis for a club that should be pushing beyond.
00:03:07And there's a sense of deflation because the glass ceiling that they were going to hopefully put their head through hasn't materialised.
00:03:15And I think Celtic fans have reached a point where they have an appetite now, a desire, a hunger.
00:03:24Domestically, it's not satisfying.
00:03:26And Brendan's right.
00:03:28Domestically, there's no crisis.
00:03:29They'll probably punch their weight in the Europa League.
00:03:32But I think there's a disconnect between the fans and the board because they made the fatal mistake, as they do season after season,
00:03:40by not really putting their foot down financially and making sure that Champions League would be an ambition that they could go and surpass what they achieved last season.
00:03:49So crisis or no crisis, Brendan can say what he wants and he is right.
00:03:54But the fans know.
00:03:57And Brendan knows the fans know.
00:03:59Yeah, it's always interesting.
00:04:02He can't resist in the comments there.
00:04:04I mean, he can't resist.
00:04:06You've got to read between the lines with Brendan.
00:04:09He can't resist the fact that he's got to emphasise to everybody.
00:04:11And by the way, the players come in late.
00:04:13Yeah, I think there was a point to be made in that.
00:04:17I didn't have time to work with these players and get them to jail quickly.
00:04:21I think that was a frustration over the course of the window.
00:04:24And I think it was a frustration that was evident in various comments that were leading up.
00:04:29To those final frantic days of the window as Celtic toiled to get anyone in.
00:04:35And we know the background to it.
00:04:36We know that Maida was desperate to go, had a move lined up and was unable to follow through on it because Celtic hadn't got reinforcements in quickly enough.
00:04:46We saw it even in January.
00:04:47It's not entirely new.
00:04:48We saw it in January.
00:04:49The weekend that Keogh was going, we heard Brendan Rodgers saying, he's not going.
00:04:53You know, I'm getting someone.
00:04:54I expect someone to come in.
00:04:56Do you sympathise though?
00:04:57I mean, the pure economics and reality that Celtic faces, if they have to go and spend to bring the quality of a player in that the fans are demanding,
00:05:05they're not going to get them early.
00:05:07Because they don't come in early.
00:05:08They've got to be satisfied they're going to a Champions League club.
00:05:11But if you're really talking about the money really now that Celtic needs to spend to get to that different level, they're not going to spend it.
00:05:17So again, Brendan is working within a system that will never satisfy what his ambitions are.
00:05:25And it's a perennial thing.
00:05:29It's not going to be solved.
00:05:30I think with smarter recruitment, you could solve it in part.
00:05:33They're never going to say, we're going to go out and sign someone prime, 27, 28 years old,
00:05:40who will have a multitude of offers on the table, who will be able to command a really vast salary.
00:05:45Is that not why then you get any actual, out of the bargain basement?
00:05:50It's a desperate, another frantic, get someone in, face name.
00:05:52Yeah, but I think everybody accepts, certainly over the course of the last week,
00:05:57everybody has talked about it ad nauseum about the failings of the Celtic board.
00:06:04The measure of discontent is the protests that go on that surround Celtic
00:06:12and the desire for the fans to get that communication.
00:06:15But when you go back to a football game, suddenly it's all about Brendan trying to quell, quash, diminish that unrest by winning games.
00:06:25Then, a couple of weeks from now, maybe getting a win in the Europa League.
00:06:29All of these things are how he can slowly but surely quieten down the noise.
00:06:37It increases even more when you get to a situation where it doesn't go according to plan.
00:06:44Or, indeed, if the board continues its stance of saying, we'll just keep quiet until they go away.
00:06:49You know, so that's the way this thing's going.
00:06:53There's no point in us going back over all the failings of them not getting to the Champions League.
00:06:58They're now facing, how do they deal with it?
00:07:00Is it as big a crisis as Hugh Scott says here?
00:07:03You know, they're all talking about this is a crisis.
00:07:05And Hugh, who regularly contributes, says,
00:07:08I've got a laugh, what's happening at Celtic is a crisis.
00:07:10Now, at my team, Rangers, he says, that's more critical.
00:07:14And that's the nature of it.
00:07:15Yeah, if you were to compare the two clubs just now, they're in vastly different states.
00:07:22And their frustrations and gripes are regarding different decisions and processes.
00:07:27But what you mentioned there about the noise quieting if Brendan Rodgers wins games of football,
00:07:32that's not exclusive to Celtic.
00:07:34That's true of any club.
00:07:36If you can get it right on the part, if you're winning games, clocking up points,
00:07:40everything else tends to come down significantly in tone and temperature.
00:07:45If you're winning games, people forgive so much.
00:07:48The classic case in point is going up Connick Hill on Monday and going for a dip in Lockholm.
00:07:53And if you're a winning manager who does it, the perception of that is that you're innovative and modern
00:07:58and to be applauded for trying new things.
00:08:01It's just, it's about the optics of things at points.
00:08:05Alison, your expertise within the politics itself is quite extensive, right?
00:08:10You've worked close with that for a long time.
00:08:13Is it not the case that there's a culture just now that some fans just will not be happy regardless?
00:08:19They just don't feel as though they're getting enough?
00:08:21I think there's a discord.
00:08:22I think there's just a, what has become an historic discord now between the board and the support.
00:08:29And you have the support who believe that they'll have a board who have betrayed the soul of the club.
00:08:33Whether or not you buy into that or you think it is, the perception is that they are so far removed
00:08:39with the political ethos of what was traditionally Celtic.
00:08:44Is it undercurrent of so much of that?
00:08:46But that's come back to Peter's point.
00:08:49That's come back 15 years, 20 years.
00:08:52You've worked in that environment.
00:08:53You've worked alongside Celtic.
00:08:55And you know that it has never changed.
00:08:58It's just heightened now.
00:08:59This is a culture of complaint.
00:09:01No, but the problem, I don't agree with you on that.
00:09:03I'll tell you why.
00:09:04Because there's a, in a democracy, there's, you get every right to voice your displeasure.
00:09:12If a company you work for, if a team you support, if any organisation you feel is not stepping
00:09:20up to the plate, conducting itself in a way that you're making a contribution to, and you've
00:09:25got a voice.
00:09:26I think the Celtic fans and Rangers fans, and any fans of any club, have every right, whether
00:09:32it's season in, season out, to voice their displeasure.
00:09:35It's something that's happening.
00:09:36You know, the two issues, and we'll talk about Russell Martin in a moment, but the two issues
00:09:42are quite simply, firstly for Celtic, you know, the pain, I'll tell you what the pain
00:09:48is, the pain is last night, and the night before, because the Celtic fans are watching
00:09:52Europe's elite, playing on the highest stage, getting all the media coverage you could possibly
00:10:00think of, the world's greatest players, and they're not there.
00:10:04And they think they should be there.
00:10:05And whether they're at a level that's good enough, or not, they think they should be
00:10:11dining at that table, partially, because they've not been going out with the money and
00:10:15buying burgers.
00:10:16They've been giving their hard-end cash and saying, we deserve at least a sniff of the
00:10:21steak.
00:10:22They're deluding themselves.
00:10:24There has to be a sense of reality.
00:10:26The teams that you're talking about, that played last night, are on a different stratosphere
00:10:29financially.
00:10:30No, but they can still dine at the table.
00:10:31They've done great, like last season, they gave a wee appetiser of what they can achieve,
00:10:36and sometimes that can be dangerous in sport, because then you raise the expectations, and
00:10:41it can't be matched to reality.
00:10:42There's no crime for ambition.
00:10:44Name me a club that played, you will name a few, right, but the majority that are playing
00:10:49at the top table last night and the night before, pedigree football clubs that pay pedigree
00:10:55wages.
00:10:55Yeah, but what I'm saying to you is, you are portraying it as if, well, it's just for
00:11:01the really, really rich and the famous.
00:11:03All you other poppers can go and play in the Diddy competitions.
00:11:07Where have you been?
00:11:08You don't have the ambition.
00:11:08Where have you been?
00:11:09That's the football world.
00:11:10No, but the point is, still, there are people in clubs that have ambitions, that want to
00:11:17try and get there, that want to try and do that.
00:11:19If that was the case, Porto shouldn't have bothered turning up in 2004.
00:11:22Again, we go back to budgets, Porto are spending far more than Celtic, and you get what you
00:11:27pay for eventually.
00:11:28In 2004, Porto were a club that were then an ace of getting beaten by Celtic in 2003,
00:11:35the year before.
00:11:35The point is, it's not a crime to have ambition.
00:11:40It's not a situation where you say, well, this is a members club, and you have to have
00:11:44your multi-millionaires at the back, and you can't come in.
00:11:48They're not saying they're going to win, and they're going to beat a Barcelona.
00:11:51They're saying, this is the competition, we think we should be there, we think we should
00:11:58beat Kyra Almaty, we've got every right to think we should be there.
00:12:03We haven't asked you to spend £20 million on one player of your £100 million that we've
00:12:09given you for your third strip, which is completely and utterly immense.
00:12:14This is what the point is.
00:12:15Get them to the game, get them into the competition, we expect that.
00:12:20That's not a crime.
00:12:21I said beforehand, that's a crisis, because the expectation levels are such, of course
00:12:26you should have beat Kyra, of course that demand should have been fulfilled, but then
00:12:32beyond that, unless you're spending that £20 million, it's a pipe dream.
00:12:37I still don't agree with you.
00:12:41Okay.
00:12:42Because at the end of the day, I think you've got every right to actually want to go to
00:12:45the game, you want to play in that competition.
00:12:48I think that's where the discord comes.
00:12:51I think the Celtic fans and the Rangers fans, they may well have heightened expectation, but
00:12:59they've got every right to think, come on, you can beat Kyra Almaty, we wanted to play
00:13:04in the games last night.
00:13:05We might get cuffed, we might get a few spankings along the way, but you might get a situation
00:13:09where I can take my son, I can take my daughter, I can take my wife, or my wife can take my
00:13:15husband, and they can go to Europe and say, by the way, look at the Allianz Arena, look
00:13:19at this game, great football, it's a memory.
00:13:22They want memories, that's what the game's about.
00:13:24It's not about some elite club with gold cards that Partsley wants everybody into who's got
00:13:29millions.
00:13:30There's truth here in both of these arguments, and both can be right at the same time, believe
00:13:34it or not.
00:13:35So, yes, you are correct, you are correct in saying I'm getting my CV off to the UN when
00:13:42we finish, but yeah, you are entirely correct to say that Celtic fans historically regard
00:13:47themselves as being able to compete with Europe's elite.
00:13:50It's celebrated, 1967 is celebrated throughout the club and it always has been, it's on the
00:13:57jerseys, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:13:59Celtic fans believe that they belong at that top table.
00:14:02They should have had enough this season to get there.
00:14:05I think there's a convenient gelling over almost that that team really should have had
00:14:11enough to beat Kyra Almaty.
00:14:14It was inexcusable, the performance was abject, not to score a goal across that length of time.
00:14:20I think in different circumstances it would have brought and invited much more scrutiny
00:14:24than what it did.
00:14:25However, also you can see why the board are also thinking, we can't say that we're going
00:14:32to commit to a specific level of spending on individual players to chase this dream of
00:14:39European competition and European football because it takes you down a road that's dangerous
00:14:43now.
00:14:43Peter, you held court there for quite a while, let someone else speak.
00:14:48Thanks Alice.
00:14:48You referenced there 2003 and 2004 and you said Celtic took Porto within a whisker of winning
00:14:57the UEFA Cup in 2003.
00:15:00That was a Celtic team that had a lot of money spent on it.
00:15:03It was unsustainable for the club to continue in that trajectory.
00:15:09I know a lot of people actually criticise me sometimes for maybe sometimes butting in
00:15:15and again I apologise for butting in.
00:15:17We've had that argument over two weeks and I still vehemently disagree with you.
00:15:22Just basically because that's the great thing about having a programme where you can have
00:15:26that opinion.
00:15:27I vehemently disagree with you because quite simply we've had the whole 2003 money reign
00:15:34it in.
00:15:35This is a club with a hundred million in the bank and the fans want communication and the
00:15:40communication they want is to say we're not happy with your strategy which is you wait
00:15:45to the last minute to sign players when you could go out and do what many, many clubs do
00:15:50and get half decent players in to get Celtic past the likes of a pub team like Carrot Almaty.
00:15:58I don't think there's...
00:15:59You're reading a line from the boardroom which is basically we can't spend this, we don't
00:16:05want to break UEFA rules on the money we're taking in and the money we should be spending.
00:16:09All of it is a smokescreen.
00:16:11They've got a hundred million pounds.
00:16:13The next board AGM will be an absolute hoot.
00:16:18They've got a lot of money.
00:16:19No Celtic fan in their right mind is saying spend 10, 15, 20 million, go and get a Chris
00:16:25Sutton or a Neil Lennon and the like but there are good players out there that you can buy
00:16:29for a certain price and you can actually allow the manager, Brendan Rodgers, to have the same
00:16:38ambitions that some of the fans do.
00:16:40Just load, give me a chance, you know, give me a chance to do something and give me some
00:16:47half decent players.
00:16:48He asked for two or three, what he got was seven projects which he didn't sign.
00:16:53I had to rub my eyes and go and check with the Hearts communications chief and say is it
00:16:58really two million euros that you spent on one player?
00:17:00Which is absolutely off the chart for me, for a club like Hearts to go and spend that.
00:17:06Speak to Hearts fans about what their expectations are.
00:17:09I mean that is a massive outlay for a club and it's, the fans are getting what they wanted
00:17:13then right, multi-million pound players, player.
00:17:17Their expectations, do you think it's to go and win the league?
00:17:21Well, can I ask you something, how many Hearts fans do you know?
00:17:24Do you know a lot of them?
00:17:25I speak to them all the time, I'm around them, you know what their expectations are,
00:17:31you know what the Hearts expectations are.
00:17:33Let's go to Tynecastle and take a few scalps and by the way, we don't think we're going
00:17:39to win the league in ten years, although Tony Bloom does, but let's go along for the ride
00:17:43on this.
00:17:44Let's not think we're going to be spending three and fours and five millions, let's buy
00:17:49into your Jamestown analytics and have a dream.
00:17:51If you don't have dreams, Parsi, there's no point in living.
00:17:55That's what they're going, they're going to Tynecastle and they're saying to themselves,
00:17:58by the way, we went to Ibrox last week and we beat them and it was absolutely magnificent
00:18:02and the thousand fans that were there went home and went, oh, what a day out we had.
00:18:05We sang, we noised up their fans, we won 2-0, we went back, we had a pint at the, what
00:18:12do you call it, the Tynecastle Arms and we absolutely sang the Hearts song till about
00:18:17half two in the morning and then we headed off to piano, the piano bar, fingers, until
00:18:22half six and then we thought to ourselves, wait a minute, there's a pub open in Leith,
00:18:25it starts at six o'clock, we'll fire down there as well and then hopefully by the time
00:18:29we get back round we'll head to the Rutland, we'll go to Buster Browns.
00:18:32Parsi, people can dream and what we don't need is quashed by people who are reading off
00:18:38a boardroom and a pile of pish.
00:18:40I think a lot of what you're saying is how I was saying this stuff, I don't think it
00:18:42represents the reality of modern football at the moment where, sadly, it's a closed shop.
00:18:49By the way, the other thing I think, and Brendan deserves tremendous credit for it, is the
00:18:54one thing that a lot of people, you know, maybe forget and it's the human element of this
00:19:01and I have, again, with the balance, offered the fact that I don't think Michael Nicholson,
00:19:06Peter Lowell or indeed Dermot Desmond or indeed Patrick Stewart should suffer vitriolic abuse
00:19:15in any capacity.
00:19:17You've got the right to say, look, we want change, we're not happy, the Rangers fans have
00:19:20got every right to do that and they will do that this weekend ahead of the Hibs game.
00:19:26But even Brendan Rodgers has come out and said, look, there needs to be more respect towards
00:19:30Russell Martin and I think you share that view because your involvement and engagement
00:19:35with him in a professional capacity has been cordial and you see a different side to him
00:19:41that maybe the fans are not seeing at the moment.
00:19:45Or should they just say, look, we're just saying we're not happy with the way he's going
00:19:49about his business?
00:19:50Yeah, listen, I think there's an inevitability where he finds himself and the fact he's not
00:19:56been able to buy a win so far in the league, I think you know what's coming.
00:20:00There is an avalanche of criticism coming your way.
00:20:04On a human level, when you see a manager standing on the touchline last weekend and an entire
00:20:10stadium is chanting what we all know was sung, I think you can empathise at how lonely a position
00:20:19that must be.
00:20:20I also think though there is a perception among Rangers fans that he's arrogant.
00:20:25I don't see it.
00:20:26I don't, I find him really personable.
00:20:30That's all by the by.
00:20:31It doesn't matter though.
00:20:32It doesn't matter how we find him and how, you know, amenable he is to deal with and I
00:20:38think he is and I think he comes across as very likeable.
00:20:41The bottom line is he's going to be judged on his teams and his teams are just falling
00:20:46short on every level.
00:20:47He presents himself in a way that Rangers fans just at the moment, I'm just not going
00:20:51to accept because they want a beleaguered figure.
00:20:53They want somebody that looks as if the anxiety and the troubles are all on his shoulders.
00:20:59Deadbeat.
00:21:00They want a deadbeat guy and they want him gone.
00:21:03But I'm like you.
00:21:03I mean, I've dealt with Russell a lot over the years.
00:21:06His best pal is a good friend of mine so I've had access to him.
00:21:09He's a brilliant guy.
00:21:11He won't be caring.
00:21:13And I think his answer about they don't know me.
00:21:15We'll mention the word karma.
00:21:18You're not going to interfere with Russell Martin's karma by booing him and telling him
00:21:21that he's getting sacked tomorrow morning.
00:21:23He's not that kind of, he doesn't have the make-up for that.
00:21:26He's also getting a hefty wedge when it eventually happens, which is going to be very soon.
00:21:31I have to say, Crows are allowed to chant really within reason what they want.
00:21:36And Russell Getty is part of the course for a guy that's struggled as badly as he has
00:21:41and it's happened time eternal.
00:21:43Yeah.
00:21:44The other thing that Brendan Rodgers mentioned, which was quite interesting because we all
00:21:47offer an opinion.
00:21:49Some don't like it.
00:21:49I mean, Brian says, Peter, my dream is for PLZ to stop all the anti-Celtic chat.
00:21:54Brian, you're living in cloud cuckoo land.
00:21:57This is not the anti-Celtic chat.
00:21:58This is the Celtic fans voicing their displeasure towards the board.
00:22:02Have you been on another planet?
00:22:04Have you missed this?
00:22:05This is led by every Celtic supporters association you could think of.
00:22:12And the other thing, which again, we do offer opinions.
00:22:14Some you like, some you don't.
00:22:16Brendan Rodgers has mentioned that he thinks, you know, some of the managers, assistants
00:22:22that have been criticising Russell Martin, I don't think he's too happy.
00:22:28It was one of those classic, what I call Brendan, just throws it in there and gets you to join
00:22:32the dots, but he was fairly critical of people who are now in punditry who were in that dugout
00:22:38not so long ago at Ibrox, who are now offering their tuppence work on something that Brendan
00:22:44says they weren't able to do.
00:22:46Yeah, I think what he said, he said he had a moral issue with people passing comment on
00:22:51his tactical failures when they couldn't get a tune out of him very recently either.
00:22:56So you can make an inference there about who might be in question.
00:22:59Yeah, of course, the big job this weekend is for Partey Thistle to try and upset the
00:23:05apple cart as well.
00:23:07It's a cup game, it's a one-off, you know the old clichés.
00:23:09Mark Wilson knows exactly what it's like to play for Celtic and he certainly knows what
00:23:15the fans are demanding.
00:23:16I mean, every supporter group wants control on the pitch.
00:23:19You should sign this one, you shouldn't have signed that one.
00:23:22Celtic have got a very good structure in place and have done for a number of years.
00:23:26And I get frustration going into the Champions League, but you can be sure that they've got
00:23:34a bench full of quality, starting a living full of quality, that can compete and probably
00:23:40should win domestically year on year.
00:23:44So it'll be incredibly difficult for us to deal with that firepower.
00:23:47But, of course, Celtic fans demand the highest and I've been there, I've seen it, I understand
00:23:54what they're going through, but I don't think it'll affect the players that are on the pitch.
00:23:58Yeah, fairly sane words from Mark, very level-headed guy.
00:24:03He's doing, I think he's doing really well with Partey Thistle.
00:24:06I didn't expect him to be where they are at the moment.
00:24:09Been to watch him a few times.
00:24:10I think he comes across really well, really articulate, understands the social media within
00:24:15the club.
00:24:16I know that he lets the cameras take him on the pitch to film the warm-up before the
00:24:20game, which is quite in it.
00:24:21He's quite fearless, he leaves himself open to a lot.
00:24:25Partey Thistle are a good side.
00:24:27They've got people like Tony Watt, who brought a real hunger, he looks fit, he looks as if
00:24:35he's got a real goal threat about him.
00:24:36They play with wide men, they play with an energy.
00:24:41They've actually got a kid in the middle of the park that was at Celtic, he was a young
00:24:45boy, went to Belgium and came back, who was exceptional in the two games that I've watched
00:24:50him play, I can't remember his name.
00:24:53They've got good, honest, defensive qualities, a decent keeper.
00:24:59Biggest problem they've got, I think, is the pitch is immaculate.
00:25:02Celtic will go there and love, because the trip to Partey Thistle.
00:25:06Isn't the same when the pitch is great.
00:25:08Yeah, okay, he knows he's on.
00:25:11It is a free hit.
00:25:14All he needs is his team to try and make it as difficult as possible for Celtic.
00:25:22We always talk about these little moments in a cup game where something has to go his
00:25:28way, big time.
00:25:29Yeah, I think Celtic still look vulnerable at points within games.
00:25:34I think they still look defensively vulnerable.
00:25:37I think they look quite staid at points.
00:25:40I think they got away with one at Rugby Park last weekend, that late penalty, just getting
00:25:45them out of jail.
00:25:46I think you can see it's been disjointed in moments.
00:25:50It's not entirely all clicking.
00:25:52It's not fast.
00:25:53There's not been an intensity or a tempo to performances, which, of course, was a hallmark
00:25:59of Brendan Norder's team.
00:26:00These really fast, powerful, aggressive teams.
00:26:03I don't think...
00:26:04I think Celtic definitely look a weaker side than what they were this time last year.
00:26:09I think Mark Wilson will feel confident of going and saying, go and see what you can do.
00:26:12Yes, if you watch them play, 20-what drifts and drops into the hole, but they've got
00:26:16Aidan Fitzpatrick on the left, Steve Lawless sometimes on the right.
00:26:18They do play, they make the pitch big.
00:26:20They're going to have to revert to some kind of more structure.
00:26:23They don't give Celtic as much space.
00:26:25And how does he manage to do that and tinker with it without taking the flow?
00:26:29Because if you watch Partick domestically, they're on the front foot and they go early
00:26:33at you.
00:26:34Okay, 3-1 Celtic.
00:26:364-0.
00:26:37I want to say 2-0 Celtic.
00:26:392-0.
00:26:40Rangers against Hibbs.
00:26:41Should he be worried that Andrew Cavanagh's come in on a private jet?
00:26:46Is that just basically, you know, the bell is tolling, it's just getting louder?
00:26:52I come back to the point about Russell Martin.
00:26:54It's why Rangers fans have got an even greater bone of contention, because he's not exhibiting
00:26:58these.
00:26:59His hair's not starting to fall out.
00:27:00In fact, it's getting thicker.
00:27:02He won't be worried.
00:27:03He's pragmatic.
00:27:05He knows the game.
00:27:07He knows the way it works.
00:27:08If he fails, I don't think he'll be losing any sleep over a private jet arriving for
00:27:12America.
00:27:12Yeah.
00:27:14Raskin's back in the squad.
00:27:15Does that help that he's maybe been able to smooth things over?
00:27:18This is quite a controversial take on it.
00:27:19I know it bucks the trend of really, because he obviously makes the team better, but I think
00:27:23he's been a poisonous element within that dressing room.
00:27:26And Russell had an opportunity to make his presence felt and show exactly what was going
00:27:33on and who's taking the lead.
00:27:35I don't know how that works now.
00:27:37And I think if I was Russell Martin, banishment to a degree would have been a better policy.
00:27:43Well, again, that's why I love having you on.
00:27:46Partially, I disagree with you, because a manager's job is to manage the side, to work
00:27:52out how you can get results that keep the fans happy, but also deliver your ambitions.
00:27:58Sometimes you have to back people that you don't necessarily like, because they're there
00:28:03to fulfil a role and they're well paid to fulfil it.
00:28:06But that in itself would have been cutting off his nose to spide his face.
00:28:10That's the phrase that I was just about to say.
00:28:11I don't think it does anyone any good to have arguably your best midfielder from last season
00:28:17not involved for the next couple of months, because there's no exit strategy now.
00:28:22So you know he's there at least until January.
00:28:24I think the adult thing to do is to say, we have to find a way.
00:28:29I think he made his point.
00:28:30I think he put down his marker.
00:28:33I think the expulsion from the squad for a while and then coming back into it, I think
00:28:38you make your point.
00:28:39I think he's flexed a bit of muscle to say, I'm the guy here that calls the shots.
00:28:44I am assuming there'll have been an apology or something along the way for Raskin to come
00:28:49back in, but I think it's a sensible course of action.
00:28:53I think if he goes down the road that you're going on, I think it just becomes in danger
00:28:58then of infiltrating the club at every level, all the time.
00:29:02Every press conference you're asked about it.
00:29:05Every single defeat, oh, you know, where's Raskin?
00:29:08Or your fans singing his name when he's not involved and it's not going well on the pitch.
00:29:13I think he's dealt with it.
00:29:14And I think the sensible thing to do is to move on and bring him back into the fold.
00:29:19Yeah.
00:29:19One thing that's not going to move on is the criticism from the Rangers supporters, because
00:29:23they've organised at half past four, they're going to be there, they're obviously calling
00:29:27for the head of Russell Martin and the chief executive, Patrick Stewart, to go.
00:29:32The Rangers manager says, you know, people will be highly critical, they've every right
00:29:37to do so, he can't control it.
00:29:40Listening to someone tell me the team doesn't look like it's coached is difficult, because
00:29:45I think the one thing that we've always had with any of our teams is they have a certain
00:29:49way of doing things, whether you believe in it or you like it or not, they definitely
00:29:52look a certain way, which takes a lot of time on the training pitch.
00:29:56So we'll get there with this team.
00:29:59The fans, protests and stuff, I can't control at all.
00:30:02So I don't spend any time.
00:30:07I have to respect it.
00:30:08I have to understand their frustration and their annoyance, but I feel every bit of it
00:30:12as well.
00:30:13But I do think it's an amazing opportunity for us as a team to come through this period
00:30:16and to grow through it and to be so strong from it.
00:30:20And hopefully at that point, then everyone will come together and we just need to win
00:30:22football matches.
00:30:23So the protests and stuff like that, I can't take it personally because I don't know any
00:30:26of them.
00:30:26They don't know me and they don't know how hard we're working.
00:30:30But I think the people inside the building, I feel incredibly well supported.
00:30:32The players, the staff, ownership.
00:30:36And as long as that continues, then it'll be fine.
00:30:38Yeah.
00:30:39And I think that's perfectly acceptable.
00:30:42I think one comment here is this will be Martin's 13th game in charge.
00:30:4913 games in charge.
00:30:52And this is where we are in 2025.
00:30:54All hells let loose.
00:30:56They're absolutely calling for his head.
00:31:00And I think sometimes, and I'm amazed he actually quoted it there, but I don't know who it was
00:31:05that said it, but for people to turn around and say that the team doesn't look coached is
00:31:09just ignorant.
00:31:10It's a cheap shot and it's an airing of a personal grievance.
00:31:15Here's what I could have won.
00:31:16Never won.
00:31:18And listen, I'm all for if that's his opinion and it's a genuine opinion and it's hard to
00:31:26argue with that characterisation of the way the team are playing.
00:31:30It isn't looking as if it's got a structure.
00:31:32It isn't looking as if there's a real methodology that he promised to bring to the club.
00:31:37So there's certainly a point.
00:31:39He's rustled Russell's feathers, so to speak.
00:31:43You can coach Parsi.
00:31:45You might not get the outcome that you want, but to suggest that he doesn't coach them is
00:31:50a nonsense.
00:31:51No, he's definitely got, that's one of the few times you actually hear Russell, there's
00:31:57a bit of degree of real disappointment.
00:32:01Russell doesn't go much beyond that kind of emotion level.
00:32:05Do you criticise the individual for making the point?
00:32:07He's entitled his opinion.
00:32:09And it's hard to not find reason in that argument.
00:32:13They don't look like a well-coached team.
00:32:14Do you think they do?
00:32:15Well, I think I would say that it's not that they don't look like a well-coached team.
00:32:20I think that they haven't embraced the style that he wants to play.
00:32:24And I don't think the Raskin situation has helped.
00:32:27And I also think the other thing that is key to this, now remember this is the 13th game
00:32:32in charge.
00:32:34And I talk about this for every manager.
00:32:36You've got to give him a chance to get the team that he wants out in the park.
00:32:40And this is a team that he's inherited that are a bunch in the last 12 months and before
00:32:47that, before and after Steven Gerrard.
00:32:50This is a team of losers.
00:32:51This is a team that don't know how to win.
00:32:53This is a team of players who can't actually provide what the Rangers fans want to see.
00:32:58There are some players there that are not fit to wear the Rangers jersey.
00:33:01And he's had to change that.
00:33:03And this is his 13th game in charge.
00:33:05Yeah, I think there has been a perennial accusation of the mental frailties within that Rangers
00:33:11team time and time again that they've been subjected to it.
00:33:14He has spent a lot of money.
00:33:15He's brought in a lot of players over the course of the summer.
00:33:19They recruited early, recruited well in terms of getting players into certain positions and
00:33:26doing it quickly.
00:33:27But it is still very early.
00:33:29The big issue is that there isn't really any evidence of improvement.
00:33:34What can you point to to say you can hang your hat on that getting better or there are
00:33:39pockets of games where you think there is encouragement to be found?
00:33:43That's the problem.
00:33:44Here's an insight into that argument that you're making.
00:33:48Barry Ferguson got the job at Clyde.
00:33:50I spoke to him on the phone extensively.
00:33:53He told me he was going to go and play properly and make sure that he did it the right way and
00:33:57bring footballers in, recruit players and play for the back.
00:33:59I said, Barry, go and find the biggest midfielders that you can find.
00:34:04Get your keeper to launch it long.
00:34:06Play through your midfield by getting it over and getting midfielders knocking it on and
00:34:10playing off second balls.
00:34:11Otherwise, you'll get hunted quickly because you don't play football in that league the
00:34:15way that you want to.
00:34:16It might sound ideal to you, but it's not going to work.
00:34:19He brought in footballers and it never worked.
00:34:22Rangers, at the moment, need to adapt a different strategy.
00:34:27Graham Sweeney has always said you must go and turn teams quickly, put the ball in behind,
00:34:31be physical early on and win the battle.
00:34:34Rangers' biggest problem at the moment is they're vulnerable, they're fragile, they have
00:34:38anxiety, they're scared.
00:34:39What's the antidote to that is everyone can be strong in battle and put the ball beyond
00:34:45and turn teams around quickly.
00:34:47Playing in front, it just encourages teams to go and do the damage that they're doing.
00:34:51Yeah, the other unfortunate thing, and I think it goes back to what you said, and rightly
00:34:56so, Alison, is it hasn't gelled in that short space of time and sometimes if it doesn't
00:35:04gel and you've got the demands of a fan base that wants to win the league, there's where
00:35:09the expectation and the reality, you've got to try and balance that and get the team to
00:35:13perform quickly.
00:35:14And the thing that I think is really damning of Russell Martin is that Derek McInnes has
00:35:21been able to, Jens Berthel Asgau has been able to again and get a style.
00:35:27The identity rule.
00:35:28Yeah, you can see what they're trying to do.
00:35:30Hibs, again, David Gray, when they were all calling for his head, he just remained resolute
00:35:37to what he tried to do, the players that he wanted to play for him, and there was a style
00:35:41about them and there was an organised strategy, structure about them.
00:35:47You could see it.
00:35:48This season, in a very short space of time, you can see it with Motherwell, they're a joy
00:35:52to watch.
00:35:53You can see it with Hibs and Harse.
00:35:56The managers have been able to implement a style and a structure and they know what they've
00:36:02got to do and I don't think some of the Rangers players have been able to embrace that and
00:36:07that's been another element that's annoyed a lot of Rangers fans.
00:36:11Yeah, and I think that was a point that was actually made at the now infamous press conference
00:36:16last Saturday in the wake of that Hearts defeat.
00:36:18I think one of the bloggers actually made that point when he said, you know, it's going
00:36:23to take time and he said, well, Hearts haven't had time or words to that effect.
00:36:27So I think that does add to frustration that it's not coming together quickly and it's not
00:36:32even that it's not coming together quickly, it's that you're not seeing signs of it even
00:36:37coming together.
00:36:37You're not even getting a flash or maybe 10-15 minutes sustained, maybe at the start
00:36:42of a game or at the start of a second period where you can see this is the shape and this
00:36:48is the identity of this team and then they lose their way a bit.
00:36:52It's just, it all looks very disjointed at points and I think the big problem now is you're
00:36:58nine points behind Hearts.
00:37:00Now, we've spoken about it, I think Rangers will be second, I think they will clock back
00:37:05but it is a significant chasm to already be eaten into and I think this season Rangers
00:37:12fans would probably have accepted not winning the league but they wanted it to be competitive,
00:37:17they wanted to see a challenge, they wanted to see a team, a team that was capable of building
00:37:23for that future.
00:37:24Yeah, Alison in football, team, right, that's why I think he's taking a gamble bringing Raskin
00:37:28back in because he's not in that ethic, that team ethic at the moment from what I can gather
00:37:34but Hearts, Hearts are balanced, they've got brave, they've got all different kind of dimensions
00:37:41that make a good team, they've got good types, they've got consistent Craig Halketts, they've
00:37:47got structure, they've got attack and flair, everybody knows they want to go and please
00:37:52their manager.
00:37:53At Rangers there's a complete paralysis of that.
00:37:56Isn't it interesting, this is a heart side as well, last year were a lot of the nucleus
00:38:00and spine of that current team who had an abject campaign last year.
00:38:05Stephen Naismith was at nine games he got at the start of the campaign before he was out of
00:38:10a job and they were languishing at the bottom half of the table, there's a core player still
00:38:15there.
00:38:15Yeah but a manager, a manager and a good manager can somehow take players that have been performing
00:38:21and then engage them again, re-energise them and then give them a specific, footballers
00:38:28like, a specific simple project, this is what I want you to do, a message, they don't want
00:38:34it muddled in their head and some managers are able to do it, Brendan Rodgers is great at
00:38:38that, making players better players, he's got that ability for whatever Jens Bertha
00:38:43Lascaux has done, he gave them a clear message in the Netherlands and every Motherwell player
00:38:48I speak to said, we knew what the plan was and how we were going to fit into it, so there's
00:38:53a clear message.
00:38:54By the way, and I also want to read out a couple of things, Hugh Burns makes a great
00:38:59point, Motherwell have nae won a game Peter says Hugh, Hugh you're absolutely right and
00:39:04I accept that Motherwell's expectations as a fan base is totally different from Rangers,
00:39:09you're right but what they do have is a strategy that everybody understands, a type of football
00:39:17that is very easy on the eye and the fans are embracing it, they're enjoying it and Jens
00:39:23Bertha Lascaux has said that they will get better and you've got a fan base that likes what
00:39:28they see, the Rangers fans don't like what they see at the moment.
00:39:31No, and there's either one or two ways that footballers perform for a manager, they either
00:39:36fear the manager and they go and deliver because they don't want the wrath or they want to please
00:39:40him because he's so engaging and he's been so good to them and they want to go and please.
00:39:45Also Martin falls between both stools, I don't think he's a fearsome manager and an aggressive
00:39:49kind of type and I don't think he's cultivating that kind of, I think, who can cultivate an
00:39:56atmosphere in that Rangers respiration room but I don't think he's that kind of Derek
00:39:59McKinnis type who has that ability to make you feel as if Brendan Rodgers makes players
00:40:06feel better than they are and gives them instruction which is simple. I think the biggest problem
00:40:10with Russell is he complicates things, he's got a philosophy which is bamboozling at the
00:40:16moment and he can't get it across. Motherwell, on the other hand, managed to do it quickly.
00:40:21I don't know the personality of the manager but he's doing one or two things. Coaching
00:40:24him well but he's either making his players what he plays him or he's got a hard edge.
00:40:29Well here's a bit, we were about to give our predictions but of course for the Hibs fans,
00:40:34I was speaking to a number of Hibs fans and there's a great, there's a really good feel-good
00:40:41factor around the club. There's a, you know, they released our 150th anniversary shirt,
00:40:47everybody's embracing it, sold out within 10 minutes, you know, everybody's singing Sunshine
00:40:52and Leaf, everybody. And over and above that...
00:40:56Can you elaborate on that please, Paul?
00:40:57No, I won't, I'll leave it till somebody eventually outlines it over the next couple of days.
00:41:02But the upshot of it all is, the mood in the camp is good as Kerry Pollock will now translate
00:41:11to you.
00:41:12Good afternoon here at the Habernian Training Centre today. David Gray has been looking ahead
00:41:17to his side's meeting with Rangers in the Premier Sports Cup quarterfinal that takes place
00:41:21at Ibrox tomorrow night at quarter to six. And with fond memories at the National Stadium
00:41:25himself, David Gray wants his players to believe they can do that as well.
00:41:29When you come to a club like Hibs, there is a genuine opportunity to try and win something
00:41:35and at this moment in time we're three games away from winning a trophy, one game away from
00:41:38a semi-final regardless of the opposition and it's up to us to try and, you know, take
00:41:42as much as we can and go there with a game plan to try and get in the next round.
00:41:45With the pressures mounting on Rangers boss Russell Martin as the games come in thick and fast
00:41:50and results not going their way, David Gray says he certainly shares sympathy with the
00:41:54Gers boss.
00:41:54I think it's always challenging even when, you know, it's a very different pressure but
00:42:01the pressure's on every single week. It's what we sign up to as managers rather than,
00:42:05you know, when you might work in business, whatever line you work in, sometimes it's
00:42:08quarterly you get your results, yearly, whatever that looks like, we get our result every week
00:42:11once a week at quarter to five and you've either been really good or really poor and
00:42:14that's the nature of the beast and what we sign up to every single week. It's also why,
00:42:19certainly what I do, I enjoy the pressure, I enjoy the thrill that comes with that. But
00:42:26it is, it can be challenging, it can be tough on personal life as well and you never really
00:42:30want it to affect that as long as it stays professional and everybody's, you know, trying
00:42:34to do the right things. You can always be respectful of that because everyone, in football
00:42:39everybody's got an opinion and everyone's got the way in which they believe it should
00:42:41be done and I'm sure Russell's got his beliefs in the way he wants it to be moving forward
00:42:45and how he believes he can turn it around.
00:42:46It all takes place tomorrow evening at Ibrox. Just one team can go through to the all-important
00:42:51semi-finals at Hampden Park. Just who will it be? Kick-off is at 5.45pm.
00:42:57David Gray is probably best placed to know the pressures of, you know, maybe, not as many
00:43:07fans as, not a percentage as many Hibs fans who were unhappy with him. They were carrying
00:43:12him a lot of slack and the board, I think, favoured sticking with him because they'd
00:43:17been sacking that many managers before him too quickly. But he eventually turned it around,
00:43:21they stuck with him, they've backed him with players and some of his players are good to
00:43:25watch.
00:43:26Great. Lazarus story. I mean, really, it's a testimony to patience. I think at the right
00:43:33time, Hibs had to show patience because the revolving door for managers was extreme. But
00:43:38you're right, capital clubs, we're talking about positive things. We're talking about
00:43:42an exciting, expansive Hearts team that are spending money. We're now talking about a
00:43:46Hibs team that are spending money. The sum of all parts, we're going back to it, two good
00:43:51teams. The balance is there. Good types, atmosphere, the character. We work around the clubs, we can
00:43:56feel it. Conversely, you can feel it when you go to Ebrox. Opposite, it matters. And I think
00:44:03the chemistry at both clubs, which is critical to good players as well, is great.
00:44:08And they've got a good bench as well. They've got a solid bench that they can make changes
00:44:12and make a difference in a game.
00:44:13I think both do. I think both Hearts and Hibs have been pretty strong. I think you've
00:44:16seen that over the last couple of weeks, being able to bring players on that then influence
00:44:20the outcome of a game. It just gives you that depth. It also gives you scope to change
00:44:24it slightly and change how you want to go about it, particularly in moments of adversity.
00:44:29But I think this is quite an interesting test for Hibs tomorrow. I think I've been impressed
00:44:34by them this season.
00:44:36You're about to get into your roughy-ism now, aren't you? Go on.
00:44:39I actually don't know. And that's a really honest opinion. I don't know how this one
00:44:44goes tomorrow. In some ways, I'm inclined to think that Rangers won it because they have
00:44:50to because of just where the club is and the atmosphere around it.
00:44:56Is that your gut feeling?
00:44:56But I wonder if it has the opposite effect. I wonder if actually you have these players
00:45:01who have been notoriously inhibited by that kind of atmosphere and that Hibs scent blood
00:45:07and they go and they just get the win. And actually, I think I'm going to go for a Hibs
00:45:11win.
00:45:12Wow.
00:45:13Wow.
00:45:13I think Hibs.
00:45:16I didn't expect that, were we?
00:45:17Last weekend when Russell Martin acknowledged that there is an anxiety at points within some
00:45:24of his players playing at Ibrox, I think the atmosphere could be toxic from the get-go
00:45:30tomorrow. Even long before a ball is kicked, I think it could be pretty ugly.
00:45:35Michael Taylor has just actually highlighted the scoreline that I think it's going to
00:45:39be. Rangers won Hibs 2.
00:45:44You make a great point for the scoreline that you've predicted, but I think law of averages
00:45:48comes out into play at some point and self-preservation within a Rangers dressing room who realise rock
00:45:54bottom has arrived. It can only get better, surely. And that law of averages, players that
00:46:00should be able to go and turn up and perform to a greater level, far greater level,
00:46:05I just think I can't even envisage the atmosphere at Ibrox if they lose. So for that reason
00:46:11alone, I think Rangers will win.
00:46:12I think that atmosphere is prevalent though, even before kick-off.
00:46:16I know, listen, there's no sense to that, there's no logic to what I've just said, but
00:46:18that's where they are Rangers at the moment.
00:46:21Yeah.
00:46:21There's been no logic to your punditry on this programme today.
00:46:26Punditry?
00:46:26It's gone from one extreme to the other and now he picks Rangers to win. You couldn't
00:46:32make it up with him. But yeah, listen, that's the joy of it all.
00:46:36Put it this way, if I'm in that Rangers dressing room tomorrow and I'm sitting there and I'm
00:46:39on the money I'm on and I realise that this is, all eyes are on us, personally, that self-preservation
00:46:46kicks in and I want to go and go listen. I know it's dross, but I'm going to go and show
00:46:51myself. It has to be this weekend.
00:46:54Yeah. Well, Hugh Scott, I think, who, you know, Hugh and many others on our live feed
00:47:00offer balance, you know, an opinion on these things. And he says, 2-1 Rangers for me, Peter.
00:47:10This is the time to stand up and show why you're at Rangers in the first place. And I think that's
00:47:15something, logically, that every fan will be looking at and saying, you know, this is
00:47:21the time to understand what it's like.
00:47:23I think that was the point of Monday's exercise. See that, like, going for a swim in Loch
00:47:28Holland after the hike. I think that's the whole point of it, to say, this is really uncomfortable.
00:47:32But you actually can come out of it. You know, you can stand together with your teammates
00:47:37and feel discomfort. He used the word pain in the press conference. I told him, you know,
00:47:42we're all going to feel a bit of pain here. I don't know if that's the message. You've
00:47:47had the moment. Like, you're experiencing what you're about to experience when you walk
00:47:51out that tunnel. Also, we spoke about it at the start of the week. You're going to have
00:47:55this protest and the dressing rooms are right at the front. The players are getting changed
00:48:00and ready to go out for a warm-up and you are going to hear every single word and every
00:48:04shout and every chant before you go and start to concentrate on a massive game that's coming
00:48:10up. So there's no hiding place for it. So I think Monday's exercise was all about prepare
00:48:14to be uncomfortable.
00:48:16I remember being at Easter Road and Pat Fenlon was under pressure. They'd lost game after
00:48:19game. He might have been there. It was a Wednesday night. Habs got beat and the fans were demanding
00:48:23Pat leave. And Derek McGregor, colleague from The Sun, one of the greatest moments of post-match
00:48:29press conferences, asked Pat, the fans are demanding your head, Pat, are you going to leave?
00:48:34They were calling for you to get sacked. He says, I never heard them. He says, I was just
00:48:39concentrating on the game. Derek pointed to the window. There was a mass protest down
00:48:43the stairs. He shouted, can you hear them now, Pat? What I'm saying is, Hartz wasn't a
00:48:51shock. It wasn't a shock. But even if you've got no association with Rangers, just from a
00:48:56purely sadomasochistic point of view, if you hear that Habs have won at the weekend, it's
00:49:02an intake of Bresnail. Wow.
00:49:04Yeah, absolutely. So you're Rangers 2-1 Hibs?
00:49:10Yeah, I think 2-1 now. I think there's one goal in it.
00:49:13Okay. Aberdeen against Motherwell, if we're talking about managers that are under pressure,
00:49:19is Jimmy Tallinn under pressure?
00:49:21Huge. Huge. I just think, again, he has to bear his fangs. He's just got to show that
00:49:27levels of expectation are far greater than what they're delivering. They've spent money
00:49:31again. His recruitment for me is too Scandinavian. And I just don't think, despite he was a messiah
00:49:43for how many months, and I just think he's fallen down a hole. They won the Scottish Cup,
00:49:48it gave him another, I mean, a jag of euphoria. But it's been temporary, and I think he's struggling
00:49:57to keep his head above water.
00:50:01To Scandinavian, he's certainly looking to some of the Scots to try and switch that. Stuart
00:50:06Armstrong, you know, and Kevin Nisbet as well.
00:50:10The problem is he needs these guys to get up to speed quickly. They've obviously missed
00:50:15pre-seasons and haven't come in fully match fit. I think he needs these guys to be hitting
00:50:20the ground running, and it's clearly taking time. He's spent a lot of money over the summer.
00:50:24A lot of players coming in. For me, he's definitely under pressure.
00:50:29Two brilliant signings, though. I mean, it's like, I'd hate his guide to signing players.
00:50:33Sure, Armstrong and Kevin Nisbet are going to make you a better team. Something Rangers
00:50:37haven't managed to fathom yet, right? But two good players.
00:50:41Aye, I fancy Motherwell.
00:50:42Well, do you want me to tell you something, Ali? I mean, I know this is the great joy
00:50:47of this programme. By the way, I have to read this line out before we hear from Jens
00:50:51Bertha Laskow. And it's basically from a person whose handle is Jinky, so I think you know
00:50:59where his allegiances lie. But it's a good one, and it certainly sums up the programme today.
00:51:05Partsley has spent the whole show trying to out-stare Ali.
00:51:12Can you say that again, please?
00:51:14It's almost that look of disbelief as each one of us opens our gob.
00:51:19It was the three-minute silence when I said something about 20 minutes ago.
00:51:23Yeah, yeah.
00:51:24And Hugh Burns has actually really kind of summed it all up. And believe me, I'm not getting
00:51:28political, or in any way ridiculing anybody who votes for a particular party. But you can
00:51:35understand where Hugh Burns is coming from with the slant on his humour, as I read out,
00:51:40Partsley votes reform. So, as you can see, people have got brilliant opinions on everybody.
00:51:48And by the way, reform could be in that person's eye, you know, a sensible approach from yourself,
00:51:53slightly radical.
00:51:54So what's your problem with reform?
00:51:55Exactly. That's why I'm saying to you, you see how I tried to balance it out there without
00:51:59everybody getting a baseball bat. It reminds me of the, and I apologise to anybody under 40,
00:52:06but it reminds me, our feed is like the classic cartoon, my favourite cartoon of all time is
00:52:12Foghorn or Leghorn, when eventually the dog's lead is so short that eventually he just scelps
00:52:18him with a baseball bat. And that's what this programme is all about. And with that in mind,
00:52:25Aberdeen have got it tough at Pataudry because Motherwell, I accept, as many have pointed out,
00:52:33they haven't won a game, but boy, they've been really good to watch. And if some of those draws
00:52:38had turned into the odd victory here and there, as any manager will tell you, and they should have
00:52:44had a few, Jens Bertha Laska reckons they could have been higher up the league.
00:52:48We feel that we are taking good steps in our game and we know that we are really, really hard to beat.
00:52:56We haven't lost a game for, I can't remember how long. And everyone has that feeling that we are so close,
00:53:06and it's not just a feeling that we are really, really close to winning our games. We are just two
00:53:13actions, not just phases or moments, two actions away from being third in the league.
00:53:17Well, there's a shout, isn't it? Two actions away from being third in the league. I'll tell you what,
00:53:24I mean, honestly, if you're 3-0 up against Hart, you need to shut it out.
00:53:27Yeah, absolutely. I think every manager could have moments like that where you go back and
00:53:31reference ifs and buts and we'd be here apart from that. But I think he needs to work out a way
00:53:37that gets him over the line in games. That 3-0-1 is a classic case in point. I think I've seen
00:53:44Motherwell twice this season. They've been good to watch. I've enjoyed watching them. Defensively
00:53:51vulnerable. Yeah. I don't know of you. I mean, I haven't turned into the all singing, dancing,
00:53:58Clara and Amber fan, but it sounds as if I am. I've loved watching them. Yeah. I feel like my auntie's
00:54:05granny's uncle kind of statement. Yes. But we'll forgive him that. If they're serving a product which is
00:54:12going to let fans go away, having watched a game that's going to be a joy to watch, they have been.
00:54:18And I hear that his training sessions are so intense and it's all about switching play and
00:54:22moving the ball quickly and his players are obviously relating to what he's trying to tell them to do.
00:54:27Yeah. Brilliant. Jock Steen and Jock Wallace and
00:54:31Bob Paisley, Bill Shankly, Sir Matt Busby, you can go through the whole lot of them.
00:54:37Never ask a player to do something that he's not capable of doing. And he's got a group of players
00:54:45that are buying into it and the majority of them are capable of doing what he wants.
00:54:49It's a simple game. It's a simple game if you can put them in a system that suits. Jim McLean is
00:54:55the master of it and encourage players to play to their strengths. And I think as soon as you complicate
00:55:00things for players, some things have knocked them off kilter. Listen, I disagree with you actually,
00:55:08I think that Aberdeen won. But again, it's purely low of averages, right? You can't keep losing games
00:55:13at home. But Motherwell need more punch. They need to deliver on that play and that's what he's missing.
00:55:21Okay. What's your prediction?
00:55:22Aberdeen 1-0. 2-1 Motherwell.
00:55:252-1 Motherwell.
00:55:26Yeah. It's a great show today, isn't it? Honestly. I mean, it's great.
00:55:29There's absolutely no logic in these predictions whatsoever.
00:55:31Yeah. No, there is a bit of logic. The logic is that you, I'll tell you why I disagree with you
00:55:36on that line. The logic is, I was going to say, the logic is, and with every fan who watches football,
00:55:43the logic is that you let your eyes be your judge. And then you form an opinion based on regularly
00:55:51watching a team play. So there is a, there is a logic to it. And the logic is as well,
00:55:57which I think is in defense of Aberdeen, and it backs up what you're saying is that I've spoken
00:56:02to so many Aberdeen fans who said, listen, see in the last couple of weeks, they haven't got the
00:56:06results, but they've, they've tried to play football. There's been times when they've been
00:56:10absolutely dominating games, a red card against Falkirk, you know, at times when the three or
00:56:15four chances and constant possession, they just haven't been able to turn it into goals.
00:56:20So your opinion that they might do it is absolutely fully justified. And lots of Aberdeen fans are on
00:56:27here just saying that, but, but obviously I'm looking, I'm saying to myself, wow, it's a
00:56:34motherwell for me, you know, and you're, you're backing it, whether we're right or not, we'll find
00:56:38out. Kelly St Myrne, obviously it's taking place, we don't want the programme to be dated too much.
00:56:42But Kelly St Myrne, Stuart Kettlewell backed up what he was talking about with that penalty that
00:56:48he just did not see at Celtic last week.
00:56:50I didn't see them. People always like to tell you good news. So I got my conclusion in the whole
00:56:59thing, hopefully to try and wrap it up, was that the VAR official seen the incident, told the referee
00:57:06to come over to the screen. The referee seen the incident several times and deemed it a penalty.
00:57:12There was a very prompt statement after it. There was a quick statement after it, which feels a
00:57:18wee bit unusual, because I think there's a lot of games that probably wouldn't be the case. I could
00:57:21be wrong on that. And that almost seemed to double down on it being the correct decision. Where I go
00:57:27now is, and my conclusion that I draw under it is, we see an awful lot of penalties and a lot that
00:57:32people are going to be really, really frustrated by. And this is where I now do sit. So you talk
00:57:37about having that conversation the Monday after the game, now where I'll sit and everything I'll
00:57:41question is, if those incidents aren't giving us penalties, then that one was wrong.
00:57:45Yeah, you understand why he's miffed. I'm just amazed he managed to get through that in 30 seconds,
00:57:50usually 15 minutes, do you know what I mean? Yeah, but he's good. I like him.
00:57:54I like him. Has he got a point? Yes, he has. Listen, he always talks sense. He voices his
00:58:02grievances and he does it in a very kind of measured way, which I applaud, and a lot of lessons to be
00:58:07learned from his approach. Yeah, and of course, you'll hear now from Stephen Robinson, because he's
00:58:13been getting it in the neck. Of course, Chris Sutton has been very vocal, and many a manager can
00:58:20handle criticism. Stephen is certainly one who looks on it and is fairly balanced in his reply.
00:58:28I didn't see them. People always like to tell you good news, so I got told some of it, but
00:58:34listen, everyone's got an opinion and everyone's entitled to it. I don't actually care. To be
00:58:39honest, I'm very confident in what I do. You don't get 400 league games if you don't know what
00:58:44you're doing, and yeah, everyone's entitled to their opinion, so that's it. Listen, everyone's
00:58:52entitled to their opinion, so that's what people are paying for, to try and stay relevant, and it
00:58:57doesn't bother me too much, to be honest. Yeah, okay. It was a penalty. Can I have agreed on that?
00:59:03No. No, we're not, but that's another program. No. Okay. You're not. Not for me. You thought it
00:59:10was a penalty. Okay. Try not to outstare her. Cara was out there to look ahead to Dundee Livingston.
00:59:16Despite the quarterfinals of the Premier Sports Cup taking place this weekend, there's still
00:59:20Scottish Premiership action as Livingston take on Dundee at Dent's Park, and speaking today, David
00:59:26Martintale spoke about his side and the belief that they can take from a point at the weekend,
00:59:29but insisted that full focus is on Livingston, and not the opposition they face.
00:59:34This season, I'm going to make sure I stick to my guns, and I'm not going to fall back into
00:59:40looking on the opposition too much. I want to focus on us as a group. I trust the changing room.
00:59:46I trust the staff. I trust myself. I want to focus on what we can bring to the game,
00:59:50opposed to what the opponent can bring to the game. He was also asked for his opinion on the VAR
00:59:55controversies that took place at Kilmarnock this weekend, and this is what the Livingston
00:59:59boss had to say.
01:00:00I said, I don't think it's a pen, I don't think it should be a pen, but my interpretation of the
01:00:06law was it probably could be a pen, just because it was going on target. But again, I'll be really
01:00:12honest, I'm kind of, sometimes you think you know the rules, and you don't know the rules,
01:00:17because I think there's such a big grey area at times. So, aye, that's kind of where I am.
01:00:23I'd be devastated if it happened against me. I'd be claiming for it if it happened for me.
01:00:31But I don't think the type of incidents should be penalty kicks.
01:00:35It's a 3pm kick-off then on Saturday, as David Martindale and Steven Presley slide
01:00:40go head-to-head in the Scottish Premiership, and PLZ Talk will be there to have you covered,
01:00:44so make sure that you follow us on all of our social media channels.
01:00:47Yeah, so that's the only league game. We're running right out of time, Parsi, so I'm going
01:00:53to go for Dundee to win.
01:00:54I'm happy with that, I'm happy with that.
01:00:57Yeah, you're going for Dundee to get the win. Ali?
01:01:00One each.
01:01:01One each. Okay, it's been an interesting programme, lots to talk about and thoroughly enjoyed it.
01:01:08Thank you to so many of you, in fact, for your opinions as well. Some obviously enjoying the chat,
01:01:16of course it's been a day of people staring at each other and also shouting and disagreeing
01:01:21with each other, but that's what Scottish football is all about. Don't forget to hit
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01:02:09and if you download the app, it's all at your fingertips. Thanks to Partsey, thanks to Alison
01:02:13McConnell and from myself, Peter Martin. Thank you to you for listening and watching.
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