- 6 months ago
Congress leader Rahul Gandhi has dropped another vote chori charge on the Election Commission, claiming centralised software used to delete voters in Karnataka's Aland assembly segment ahead of the 2023 polls.
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00:00Good evening, hello and welcome. You're with the news today, your prime time destination news, newsmakers, talking points.
00:07It's Thursday night. This is where you'll get all the days, big stories, and we've got plenty of special guests on the show tonight.
00:15Rahul Gandhi has just doubled down on his vote chori charge, targeting the election commission.
00:21We'll try and decode what Rahul Gandhi is saying. Also, we'll decode the Saudi Arabia-Pakistan military pact.
00:32What does it mean for India's security concerns?
00:36Plenty on the show tonight, but first as always, it's time for the Nine Headlines at Nine.
00:42Rahul Gandhi, the Congress leader, drops another vote chori charge on the election commission,
00:48now claims centralized software used to delete voters in a Karnataka constituencies, add them in Maharashtra.
00:57EC hits back, says they had filed the original FIR to probe irregularities, denies that mass deletions had taken place.
01:10Relief for Gautam Adani in the Hindenburg case.
01:13SEBI gives a clean chit to the corporate group, says no violations were found.
01:19Adani seeks an apology from those spreading false narratives.
01:27U.S. President Donald Trump says he's spoken to Prime Minister Modi and wished him a very happy birthday,
01:34but justifies the additional tariffs on India for purchasing Russian oil.
01:39Saudi Arabia signs an important strategic mutual defense deal with Pakistan.
01:49MEA says carefully examining the impact is committed to protecting India's interests.
01:58Police run over a man in Delhi during late night patrolling.
02:01Two policemen suspended, constable driving a PCR van arrested.
02:06Locals say the cops were drunk.
02:11The Kerala High Court orders a vigilance inquiry into the unexplained loss of 4.54 kg gold in 2019.
02:18From the idols at the Shabarimala Temple,
02:21asked Chief Vigilance and Security Officer to file a report in three weeks.
02:27Families of Air India crash victims sue the manufacturer of flu fuel switches.
02:32Lawsuit filed in a Delaware court claims crash happened due to faulty switches.
02:40Amidst the controversy over Vishnu remark,
02:44Chief Justice of India Gawai says he was misquoted,
02:47respects all religions.
02:48Lawyers write an open letter to CGI and had asked him to withdraw the statement.
02:52Top 2 streak ends for India's golden boy Neeraj Chopra,
03:00the world, the Olympic javelin winner.
03:04His world champion title defense ends in disappointment
03:07after he's eliminated from the World Athletic Championship final.
03:10The story that we are breaking right at the very top tonight,
03:25the SEBI has given, the Securities Exchange,
03:29Bureau of India has given a clean chit to the Adani group.
03:33Clean chit to the Adani group in the Hindenburg case,
03:36remember where there were charges being made against Adani
03:40of several irregularities and corruption.
03:44SEBI says there's been no violation by the Adani group.
03:47Dautam Adani in his first response has welcomed the SEBI findings
03:51and said that those who targeted his group should be giving an apology.
03:55I'm joined by Chetan Bhutani from Business Today.
03:59Chetan, this is of course something that's been going on for two years.
04:03There were allegations of serious irregularities,
04:06monies being parked in foreign offshore accounts,
04:08insider trading and worse.
04:10Is this a complete clean chit now?
04:13Is it a complete closure of this entire investigation?
04:17Well, that's right, Rajdeep.
04:18It's a complete closure for the Adani group
04:20and of course for the Adani group chairman Gautam Adani
04:22where market regulator SEBI has given a complete clean chit to the group.
04:27In fact, in two orders separately issued by the market regulator,
04:30it has stated that the explosive allegations of insider trading,
04:33market manipulation and violations of public shareholding rules
04:36collapsed under scrutiny.
04:38In fact, Rajdeep, very interestingly, the regulator made it clear
04:41that none of the charges in the show cause notice could be proved.
04:44It also confirmed that there was no violation of the SEBI Act
04:46concerning fraudulent or unfair trade practices.
04:49Now going back to January 2023,
04:53when the Hindenburg Research accused the Adani group
04:55for allegedly conducting the biggest corporate fraud in the history
04:58of using three companies to inflate shares
05:01and of course create offshore accounts for funding.
05:04So clearly, all in all, great news coming in for the Adani group
05:07and of course for the chairman, Gautam Adani as well.
05:10Okay, so major relief there for the Gautam Adani group
05:13or the Adani group and for its chief promoter,
05:17Gautam Adani, SEBI's clean chit in that case.
05:20Okay, let's turn talking about Gautam Adani
05:24to someone who's targeted Gautam Adani now for several years,
05:27Rahul Gandhi, who today escalated his allegations of vote chori
05:32or vote theft against the election commission.
05:36Gandhi today alleged a large-scale deliberate deletion
05:39of voters from electoral rolls across the country
05:43using, he said, a centralized software system.
05:46He repeated his claim that communities known to support the opposition
05:50were systematically targeted
05:52using a constituency in Karnataka to prove his point.
05:56The election commission was quick to respond,
05:58rejecting the allegations, calling them incorrect and baseless.
06:03Tonight, it's Rahul Gandhi versus the election commission.
06:07Once again, that's our top story.
06:12Lok Sabha leader of opposition Rahul Gandhi
06:15escalated vote chori charges further.
06:19Thursday, he alleged a large-scale deliberate deletion of voters
06:23from electoral rolls across the country.
06:27In support, he presented Karnataka's Aland constituency
06:30as a case study.
06:32The LOP claimed that there was a bid
06:34to delete over 6,000 votes in the constituency.
06:39As evidence, Rahul Gandhi cited three examples.
06:42The Congress leader alleged that someone created fake logins
06:47in a voter named Goda Bai's name to delete 12 voters.
06:52And this was done using mobile numbers from different states.
06:55He played out a soundbite of Goda Bai,
06:58claiming she wasn't aware of this.
06:59Rahul Gandhi said that the identity of a voter named Surya Kant
07:14was used to delete 12 voters in 14 minutes.
07:17Surya Kant and one of the targeted voters,
07:20Bhavita Chaudhary, was brought on stage.
07:22And this third piece of evidence, Rahul Gandhi cited,
07:40how two applications were allegedly filed and submitted
07:44in 36 seconds by a person claiming to be Nagraj.
07:48Rahul Gandhi said,
08:18that after NFIR was filed in Karnataka in February 2023,
08:23the case was handed over to the CID.
08:26Over the next 18 months,
08:28the CID sent 18 requests to the Election Commission
08:31seeking technical details,
08:33including destination IPs, device ports and OTP trails.
08:38But there was no reply.
08:39The Karnataka Chief Electoral Officer
08:41also followed up the matter multiple times.
08:44The leader of opposition claimed that only partial data was finally shared in August 2023
08:50and he described them as insufficient.
08:55While this is going on,
08:58the CEC of Karnataka
08:59writes to the Election Commission in Delhi
09:04and says there is a matter.
09:06Now, this is absolute solid proof
09:10that Gyanesh Kumar
09:12is protecting the people who are doing this.
09:16The Election Commission strongly rejected the allegations,
09:21calling them incorrect and baseless.
09:23It said no deletions can happen without due process or a hearing
09:28and that public users cannot delete votes online.
09:32On social media, in its defense,
09:34the Election Commission posted a fact-check of Alant constituency of Karnataka.
09:39BJP hit back with counter-accusations.
09:41This is a question.
10:11Earlier this month,
10:23after wrapping up his voter adhikariyatra,
10:26Rahul Gandhi had promised
10:27to soon drop a hydrogen bomb
10:30of irrefutable evidence of vote theft.
10:33On Thursday, he clarified that this was not that H-bomb,
10:37but a preview,
10:38escalating his vote-chory allegations notch by notch.
10:43Bureau Report, India Today.
10:45And joining me now is the first of my special guests,
10:53N. Gopal Swami, his former Chief Election Commissioner.
10:56Appreciate your joining us, Mr. Gopal Swami.
10:59Let's cut the chase, go straight to the big question.
11:01Rahul Gandhi, in his press conference today,
11:03went a step further in targeting the Chief Election Commissioner,
11:07claiming that there has been widespread deletion and addition of voters
11:11using a centralized software,
11:14using phones outside a particular state,
11:17and then claiming that the CEC protected those so-called vote chores,
11:22even though there was an inquiry being carried out by the Karnataka CID.
11:27How do you respond when Rahul Gandhi makes these kind of allegations
11:31against the Chief Election Commissioner,
11:33that he's protecting vote chores?
11:35I thought the Election Commission has already responded to it, already.
11:47I just saw that below.
11:49I mean, in your channel itself, I saw that information.
11:52They have said that the case was actually initiated
11:54by the Election Commission officials in Karnataka,
11:58in that particular district.
11:59And then it was handed over to the CID by the officers there.
12:06And whatever information they asked for has been given to them.
12:09Sir, but there will be those who will say
12:11that's a very routine response that we handed over the case to the CID.
12:15Because the fact is, Rahul Gandhi claims
12:17that the Karnataka CID has since written on 18 occasions
12:21to the Chief Election Commissioner,
12:23or the Election Commission,
12:25asking for specific additional information
12:28that would help them nail,
12:30they claim, those who are behind this
12:32attempt to infiltrate the roles,
12:34but they've been stonewalled on each occasion
12:37by the Election Commission.
12:44I don't think that is quite correct,
12:46in the sense that, you know,
12:47the information which was asked for has been fully given.
12:50So, in fact, my information is that the I.O. has changed.
12:54The I.O. is now asking for some other information,
12:56but they will, of course, in due course,
12:57they will give it.
12:59So, 18 months and 18 letters,
13:02let's not go by that number,
13:05because information was given immediately in 2023 itself.
13:09Okay.
13:10And thereafter, very recently,
13:13the I.O. has changed in this particular case,
13:15and he is wanting to investigate
13:16in a different fashion altogether.
13:18So, that's fine, because after all,
13:20the case has been filed
13:20by the Election Commission itself.
13:22So, there is no reason
13:23why they should not share information.
13:25They have already shared,
13:27and if this additional information
13:28is something which is available with them,
13:29they will certainly share it.
13:31But, Mr. Gopal Swami,
13:32Rahul Gandhi has also,
13:34in that press conference today,
13:35given and named specific individuals,
13:37some of whom are present,
13:39who claimed that their names were misused
13:41by filing these applications for deletion
13:45to delete the names of their own neighbours
13:47in the Alland Assembly Constituency,
13:50numbering to more than 6,000.
13:52Such applications were filed,
13:53some at 4 a.m. in the morning.
13:54Let me, let me, yeah.
13:59But, but it is also mentioned there
14:01in the reports,
14:02I mean, of the Hindu,
14:05or the 5th of September,
14:07that the neighbours said
14:08we have never made it.
14:10And thereafter,
14:11my information is also that
14:12some people have been apprehended
14:14and their inquiry is going on.
14:15This is my information.
14:16Maybe, I mean,
14:17this information is secondhand.
14:20It's not come from
14:21the Election Commission sources,
14:22but somebody else.
14:24Therefore,
14:24I am not fully wanting to stand by that.
14:26But my information is also,
14:28they have apprehended some people.
14:29But incidentally,
14:30this confirmed information is
14:32that the IO changed
14:34and the new IO has asked
14:36for additional information,
14:37which, of course,
14:37the commission will give.
14:38Because, after all,
14:39it is a commission
14:40which started the case.
14:41And one more thing
14:42I must add here.
14:44Immediately in 2023 itself,
14:46after looking at
14:47this particular attempt,
14:49the commission made one change
14:50in its approach
14:52to such online requests,
14:54that it has now restricted it
14:56to only six numbers.
14:58I mean,
14:58you can't make
14:59more than six requests
15:00from one and the same IP.
15:02Before that,
15:03there was no such restriction
15:04and therefore,
15:05a very large number
15:06was made from a few numbers.
15:07Now that restriction
15:08has also been placed
15:09in order to ensure.
15:10But one thing
15:11I wanted to make
15:12to all the viewers
15:14very clear,
15:15notwithstanding anything
15:17you make a request online,
15:19no online request
15:22is acted upon
15:23without field verification.
15:25That's very important.
15:26Without field verification.
15:28In fact,
15:28the field verification
15:29in this particular case
15:30revealed that
15:31there was something wrong.
15:33In fact,
15:33one of the BLOs
15:34got the message
15:36about removal
15:37of some name
15:37from somebody
15:38and she checked up
15:40and found that
15:40it was not correct
15:41and therefore,
15:42she then started
15:43looking at all these.
15:44Meanwhile,
15:45the central office
15:47from Karnataka itself,
15:49they immediately instructed
15:52that all these
15:53are coming.
15:54You better watch out
15:55and therefore,
15:56all this was done
15:58by the election commission
15:59officials
16:00in the field
16:01and it is the
16:03election commission
16:04officials in Karnataka
16:05who went
16:05and complained,
16:07who gave the complaint.
16:09In fact,
16:09my information
16:10is that
16:10very high-level meeting
16:11very high-level meetings
16:14were held
16:14by the CEO
16:16of Karnataka
16:17along with
16:18the IGA
16:18and other
16:19senior officials
16:19of the police department
16:21way back in
16:222023 itself.
16:23Sir,
16:24the original complaint
16:25was made by
16:26a Congress candidate
16:27in February 2023
16:28but what you are saying
16:29is that
16:29the EC initiated
16:30based on that complaint
16:32an inquiry
16:34and therefore
16:36cannot be held
16:37responsible
16:38or guilty
16:38of trying to
16:40hide
16:40the vote-chori.
16:42Are you therefore
16:42telling me on the show
16:43tonight that Rahul Gandhi's
16:45allegations are baseless,
16:46the EC has nothing
16:47to hide
16:48and if they have
16:49nothing to hide,
16:50is that what you are
16:51claiming,
16:52that they have
16:52nothing to hide?
16:53Doot ka doot,
16:54paani ka paani?
16:54Absolutely,
16:57you can't put it
16:59I mean,
16:59you put it
17:00in term terminology
17:02which even I
17:03could not have
17:04said.
17:06Are you therefore
17:07saying Mr. Gopal Sami
17:08that there should be
17:09no inquiry at all?
17:11Because remember
17:12Rahul Gandhi
17:13is referring to
17:14allegations
17:15that he is now
17:16making that there is
17:16a constituency
17:17in Maharashtra
17:17where additions
17:18were made
17:19misusing a
17:20centralized software.
17:22Are you saying
17:23that the EC
17:23should not
17:24order an
17:24independent inquiry
17:26that this one
17:27EC press note
17:28is enough
17:28and the fact
17:29that they
17:29filed an
17:30FR in February
17:312023 is enough,
17:32sir?
17:35You are
17:36putting words
17:37in the memoir.
17:38I never said that.
17:39Since the
17:40case is being
17:41investigated already,
17:42where is the
17:42question of
17:43not inquiring
17:44into it at all?
17:45The case is being
17:45investigated by
17:46the Karnataka
17:47Police, CID.
17:48That's what it is
17:49and the new
17:50IO who has
17:50come,
17:51he has said
17:51that you give
17:52me additional
17:52information.
17:54Sir,
17:54but if it
17:55is happening
17:56in one
17:56constituency
17:57in Karnataka
17:58that led
17:58to people
17:59getting apprehended
18:00that there
18:00was the
18:01very fact
18:02that there
18:02was an
18:03attempt made
18:04through online
18:05to delete
18:06voters
18:07illegitimately,
18:08it could be
18:09happening across
18:10the country.
18:11Therefore,
18:11does this not
18:12need Mr.
18:13Gopal
18:14Sami a wider
18:14investigation,
18:15sir?
18:15If it had
18:20happened elsewhere,
18:21it would have
18:22come out like
18:22this.
18:23Because,
18:24as I'll
18:25repeat it
18:26again,
18:27no change
18:28in the
18:28electoral
18:29roll is
18:29made,
18:30either for
18:30deletion or
18:31for inclusion
18:32or for
18:33change in
18:33the address,
18:34but without
18:35any field
18:36verification at
18:37all.
18:38So,
18:38there is no
18:38question of
18:39it escaping
18:39any official
18:41of the
18:41election
18:42commission.
18:42You see,
19:04the point is,
19:04who made
19:05the allegation
19:05first?
19:06He must
19:06think it
19:07over.
19:09Without
19:09making,
19:10I mean,
19:10making such
19:11personal
19:11attacks is
19:11very unfortunate
19:12and when
19:14you make
19:15the allegation,
19:16somebody who
19:17is subject
19:17to the
19:18allegation
19:18has to
19:18reply.
19:20But is
19:21it not
19:21important for
19:22Gyanesh Kumar
19:23maybe to
19:24call Rahul
19:24Gandhi,
19:25he's after
19:25all the
19:25leader of
19:26the opposition,
19:26have a
19:27closed-door
19:27meeting and
19:28address each
19:29and every
19:29concern,
19:30all of
19:30this playing
19:31out in
19:31this public
19:32domain in
19:33the manner
19:33that it
19:33is,
19:34will it
19:34not create
19:35a situation
19:35where EC's
19:36reputation and
19:37credibility at
19:38some stage
19:39takes a
19:39hit?
19:42My dear
19:45sir,
19:46I'm sorry
19:46to say
19:47this,
19:47it seems
19:48that the
19:48effort is
19:49for doing
19:50this.
19:51That's what
19:51it seems
19:52to me.
19:53If the
19:53idea was to
19:56find out
19:57what it is,
19:58either on
19:59his invitation,
20:01I remember
20:02somewhere he's
20:03mentioning that
20:03he did
20:04invites,
20:05okay,
20:05if on his
20:06invitation,
20:07or you
20:07could write
20:08a letter
20:08saying that
20:08I have
20:09very serious
20:09things to
20:10discuss,
20:11I will
20:11come over.
20:12Who said
20:13no?
20:14Nobody will
20:14say no.
20:14No,
20:15election
20:15commission
20:16officials have
20:16never said
20:17for any
20:18party,
20:18any
20:19representative
20:19coming and
20:20meeting them
20:20and discussing
20:21issues with
20:21them.
20:22Sir,
20:22from what I
20:23gather,
20:23you're giving
20:24a complete
20:25clean shit
20:25to the
20:26election
20:26commission.
20:26Are you
20:27telling me
20:27today there
20:28is absolutely
20:28no reason
20:29to believe
20:29that the
20:30election
20:30voter rolls
20:31in this
20:31country are
20:32contaminated
20:33in any
20:34manner with
20:35deletions and
20:36additions being
20:37made in a
20:38possibly illegal
20:39manner?
20:42No,
20:43again,
20:43let me tell
20:44you one thing.
20:46The election
20:46rolls,
20:47there will be
20:47mistakes always.
20:49Not today,
20:50this is nothing
20:50new.
20:51Way back in
20:521983,
20:54there was a
20:54court case
20:55filed in
20:55Bengal.
20:55No election
20:57should be
20:57held because
20:57election electoral
20:59rolls have
20:59contained mistakes.
21:01The Supreme
21:01Court said
21:02no electoral
21:03roll will be
21:04perfect 100%,
21:05therefore mistakes
21:06will be there
21:06and that's not
21:07the reason why
21:07elections should
21:08be postponed.
21:09So mistakes
21:09will be there.
21:10I'm taking only
21:11one small
21:11example.
21:12If you don't
21:13make correction
21:14every day,
21:16there will be
21:16at least five
21:17instances,
21:18I mean,
21:18if you take
21:19one polling
21:20station,
21:20at least two
21:21or three
21:21instances either
21:22of death or
21:22of shifting or
21:24of some other
21:24requirement.
21:25will be there.
21:26So,
21:27to say that
21:28electoral rolls
21:28will be at
21:29all given
21:29points of
21:30time 100%
21:30correct,
21:31it's not true
21:32at all.
21:32It can never
21:33be made that
21:35way at all.
21:36Mistakes will
21:36be there.
21:37The question
21:37is whether the
21:39mistakes are
21:39deliberately done
21:41by the election
21:41commission or
21:42papered over or
21:43the mistakes are
21:45there and they
21:45have never made
21:46any attempt to
21:46find out.
21:47In fact,
21:47the SIR in
21:48Bihar is to
21:49correct all those
21:50mistakes.
21:50You know,
21:52it's interesting
21:52you mentioned
21:53the SIR of
21:53the special
21:54intensive revision
21:55in Bihar,
21:55sir.
21:56Do you believe
21:56that the SIR
21:57is a genuine
21:58exercise to
21:59purify the
21:59electoral rolls
22:00or is it an
22:01exercise as
22:01alleged by the
22:02opposition to
22:03exclude those,
22:05to exclude
22:05several bona fide
22:06voters, end up
22:07disenfranchising
22:09them in the
22:09manner it's
22:10taking place?
22:11Absolutely
22:17false
22:18allegation.
22:18Let me make
22:19one thing clear
22:20here.
22:21Way back in
22:212007, before
22:23the elections in
22:24UPE, we did
22:25a thorough
22:27house-to-house
22:27check.
22:28We found
22:29out 52, we
22:30deleted 52
22:31lakh entries
22:32and 25 lakh
22:34entries newly
22:34made.
22:35Same thing
22:36happened in
22:37Karnataka in
22:372007-2008,
22:39before the 2008
22:40elections.
22:40A very large
22:41number of
22:41corrections had
22:42to be made
22:42because the
22:44thing was not
22:45kept up to
22:45date.
22:46It cannot be.
22:47I mean, it's
22:47not possible to
22:48do it every
22:49day, every
22:50second day.
22:51In fact, there
22:52was one
22:53instance I
22:53found that in
22:54few districts
22:55in Karnataka,
22:56there were no
22:58deaths at all
22:58reported for
22:59almost a year.
23:00So I asked
23:01them jokingly
23:02saying that they
23:02must be eating
23:03something special
23:04because there
23:05are no deaths
23:05at all.
23:06So mistakes
23:06will be there.
23:08The effort
23:08in
23:09Bihar is
23:12something similar
23:13to what was
23:13done in
23:142007 in
23:15UP, 2008
23:16there also
23:18we found
23:18people who
23:20were missing
23:20in the sense
23:21that they are
23:22not anymore
23:23living there.
23:24People who are
23:24dead still
23:25continued on
23:26the electoral
23:26roll, people
23:27who have
23:27shifted
23:28continued on
23:28the electoral
23:29roll.
23:29So these
23:30issues will
23:32be there in
23:32a country
23:33like ours.
23:34If you
23:34don't make
23:35any correction
23:36year to
23:37year, there
23:38will be at
23:38least 7-8%
23:39difference in
23:40the electoral
23:40roll.
23:43So if you
23:44don't make it
23:45for a couple
23:45of years,
23:46there will be
23:47at least 20-25%
23:48difference.
23:48you don't
23:51think that this
23:52exercise is being
23:53done in
23:53haste on the
23:55eve of an
23:55election in
23:56Bihar, that
23:57it should be
23:57done in a
23:57more transparent
23:58manner, taking
23:59all stakeholders
24:00into confidence.
24:01Otherwise, these
24:01allegations will
24:02continue, sir.
24:03It is always
24:08done on the
24:09eve of the
24:09election.
24:11It is being
24:12done in a
24:16transparent manner
24:16at least.
24:17We used to go
24:18from house to
24:18house checking
24:19up.
24:19Here, they
24:20gave a list
24:21to each
24:22household saying
24:22that in your
24:23house there are
24:24four voters,
24:24here is four
24:25sheets of paper,
24:26fill it and
24:27return back.
24:28So if the
24:28thing that when
24:29it comes back,
24:30only three people
24:31sign and return,
24:32third person is
24:32not there.
24:33So they have
24:34gone one step
24:34further in
24:35ensuring that
24:37there is, you
24:38know, there is
24:38transparency and
24:42not the way we
24:43did it 20 years
24:44ago.
24:4420 years ago,
24:45we were, I
24:46mean, the
24:47BLOs will go
24:47with a list and
24:48check in each
24:49house.
24:49Here, a sheet of
24:50paper was given
24:51to each of the
24:52voters in a
24:53particular
24:53address and
24:55they were asked
24:56to sign and
24:56return.
24:57If the person
24:59is not there,
24:59it will not be
25:00signed, it will
25:00be returned and
25:01the BLO makes
25:02the note saying
25:02that there is no
25:03such person.
25:03So where is
25:04the question of
25:05mistake being
25:06there or deliberate
25:07deletion being
25:08there?
25:09Sir, because the
25:10truth is anomalies
25:11are coming out,
25:11sir.
25:12Our reporters and
25:12several other
25:13media outfits have
25:14reported how
25:15people who are
25:16reportedly alive are
25:17being declared
25:17dead during the
25:18SIR.
25:19mistakes, mistakes,
25:24mistakes, yeah,
25:25mistakes can be
25:26there, but not
25:2765 lakhs, not
25:297.5 lakhs.
25:32So let us look at
25:34things in the
25:34perspective.
25:35I mean, if there
25:36are 10, 20, 30,
25:3740 mistakes, it
25:38doesn't mean that
25:3965 lakhs deletion
25:40is totally wrong.
25:41If 65 lakh people
25:43have not replied to
25:45the piece of paper
25:46given and the BLO
25:48makes a note saying
25:49that I have
25:49visited, this paper
25:50has not been
25:51returned or this
25:52paper has been
25:52returned without
25:53signature, means
25:53that the person
25:54is not there.
25:54Okay, that's a
25:57very strong
25:57impassioned
25:58defense you've
25:58given of the
25:59EC, Mr. Gopal
26:00Swami, I
26:01appreciate you
26:02joining us.
26:03We've heard one
26:03side of the
26:04story, let's get
26:04the other side.
26:05I've also earlier
26:06spoken to
26:06Yogendra Yadav,
26:07co-founder of
26:08Swaraj India,
26:09who's really, in
26:10a sense, leading
26:10the campaign against
26:13the way the EC is
26:14conducting itself.
26:15Appreciate you're
26:16joining us.
26:16We just had
26:17former CEC
26:18Gopal Swami
26:19defending the
26:19election commission
26:20saying Rahul
26:21Gandhi's allegations
26:22baseless, unfounded,
26:23EC has nothing to
26:24hide when it
26:25comes to deletion
26:26and addition of
26:27voters following
26:28due process.
26:28How do you
26:29respond?
26:32Rastip, I have
26:33not heard Mr.
26:34Gopal Swami, but
26:35I did take a look
26:36at the election
26:36commission's response
26:38and it reminded me
26:39of a joke.
26:41A judge asked
26:42someone who was
26:43accused of
26:44assaulting someone
26:44else, what do
26:46you have to say
26:46in your defense?
26:47He said, milord,
26:48two things.
26:48Number one, I was
26:50not in town that
26:51day.
26:51Here is my proof.
26:52I was in some
26:52other town.
26:53And number
26:54two, he said,
26:56but sir, he
26:56hit me first.
26:58This is exactly
27:00what the election
27:00commission's response
27:01amounts to.
27:03What is the election
27:03commission saying?
27:04It's saying, A,
27:06it is impossible
27:08to do any
27:09deletion through
27:10any online
27:10mechanism.
27:12And two, we
27:14had filed FIR
27:15in any case.
27:16Why did you
27:17file FIR if
27:18there was nothing
27:19that could be
27:20done?
27:21The simple
27:22fact remains
27:22that yes, there
27:25is a process of
27:25deletion.
27:27Yes, you can
27:27make an online
27:28application.
27:30Yes, all this
27:30forgery was about
27:32online application
27:33which seems to be
27:34generated through
27:35a software.
27:36Yes, the election
27:37commission had
27:38taken cognizance of
27:39those objections.
27:40And yes, they
27:41had actually started
27:42the process of
27:43deletion by sending
27:44notices.
27:45This is when
27:46someone discovered,
27:48someone got a
27:49notice because I
27:49spoke to Mr.
27:50B.R.
27:50partner to
27:51understand the
27:51entire story.
27:53So one person in
27:53a village got a
27:54notice that your
27:55name is to be
27:55deleted.
27:56Mr. So-and-so has
27:57objected.
27:58Mr. So-and-so used
27:59to live in front of
28:00his house.
28:00He went there and
28:01said, why have you
28:02objected to my
28:02name?
28:03The person said,
28:04but I've never
28:04objected to your
28:05name.
28:05How would I object
28:06to your name?
28:08This is when they
28:09realized the fraud.
28:11The fraud was
28:11detected before the
28:13election.
28:13And yes,
28:14election commission
28:15has filed an
28:17FIR, the
28:18concerned official
28:19filed an FIR.
28:21The allegation is
28:22not that 6,000
28:24votes were
28:24deleted.
28:25The allegation
28:26is that these
28:28votes were about
28:29to be deleted,
28:31that the entire
28:32activity was
28:33fraudulent, and
28:34that the election
28:35commission is
28:36refusing to
28:37cooperate in the
28:38inquiry being done
28:40by CID
28:40Karnataka.
28:42Election commission
28:43is refusing to
28:44diverge the
28:45destination IP,
28:47OTP numbers
28:48through which all
28:49these things were
28:50done, and
28:51anything which
28:52would help enable
28:53them to track the
28:54device through which
28:55this fraudulence took
28:56place.
28:57If Mr. Gopal
28:58Sami has given a
28:59response to that,
29:00then I'm not aware
29:01of it.
29:01But election commission
29:02hasn't given a
29:03response.
29:03I'll tell you what,
29:06sir, both Mr.
29:07Gopal Sami and the
29:09election commission in
29:09the press statement
29:10they gave are
29:11emphasizing that they
29:13filed an FIR based on
29:14the charges which
29:15today Rahul Gandhi is
29:16putting up in February
29:182023, that they took
29:20cognizance of the
29:21complaint.
29:21They are the ones who
29:22made an on-field
29:23verification and many of
29:25those deletions which
29:26had been wrongly done
29:27were removed based on
29:29the fact they claim that
29:30online applications are
29:31not enough for deletions
29:33and they instead want
29:34to be commended for
29:35preventing a fraud from
29:37taking place.
29:38But Rahul Gandhi has
29:38chosen to target the
29:40EC, they say, by
29:41claiming the EC is
29:42protecting vote
29:42choring or the vote
29:44chores.
29:47That's the funny thing
29:49about it, Rahul,
29:49Rajti.
29:51Just to get the story
29:52right, it is Mr.
29:53B.R.
29:54Patil, the Congress
29:55candidate, who detected
29:56the fraud.
29:57He approached the
29:58election officer and
30:00election officer was
30:01quite upright.
30:02The election officer
30:03did what was required
30:04because Mr.
30:05B.R.
30:05Patil said, here are
30:07these 6,000 people who
30:08are about to be
30:09deleted.
30:10Please make physical
30:11inquiries.
30:12The inquiries were
30:13made.
30:14The application was
30:16found to be fraudulent
30:17and therefore those names
30:19were not deleted.
30:20But that is not what
30:21Rahul Gandhi is saying.
30:22Rahul Gandhi is not
30:23saying 6,000 votes were
30:24deleted.
30:25Rahul Gandhi is saying
30:27that when an FIR was
30:29filed, after which the
30:32CID Karnataka started an
30:34investigation, and CID
30:36Karnataka has written 18
30:38times to the election
30:39commission to say, please
30:42help us locate the
30:43device.
30:44Please share the following
30:45information, which only you
30:47have.
30:48I'm not an IT expert, but CID
30:50has written to them 18
30:51times.
30:52The question that election
30:53commission should be
30:54answering is not whether
30:57automatic deletion was
30:58possible.
30:59Of course, automatic
31:00deletion doesn't take
31:01place.
31:01Who's saying that?
31:02Why are you responding to
31:02questions that have not
31:03been asked?
31:04The election commission
31:05should be responding to
31:06the Fed as to why is it
31:08that it has not responded
31:10those 18 times.
31:11And, all right, forget the
31:1318 times.
31:14Why doesn't the election
31:14commission this evening
31:16diverge those details so
31:17that we can find out where
31:19this was done from?
31:20Rahul Gandhi, this is a very
31:21serious matter, you must
31:23have seen, in every
31:24single booth because the
31:25rule is that only someone
31:27from that booth can
31:28object.
31:29So, what the software has
31:31done is to pick number
31:32one from the electoral
31:33roll of each of these
31:34booths and filed
31:36applications on that
31:37behalf.
31:38So, the suspicion now is
31:40not just Alan.
31:41The suspicion is that
31:42something like this may
31:44have been successfully
31:45carried out in so many
31:47other places.
31:48The suspicion is that
31:50someone sitting somewhere
31:51was running a factory of
31:53fraud.
31:54That is what election
31:55commission should be
31:56responding to.
31:57Sir, Yogendra Yadav,
31:59election commission is
32:01claiming that they have
32:03actually given all the
32:05details to the Karnataka
32:07investigators when this
32:09complaint was originally
32:11made.
32:11Now, there is a fresh I.O.,
32:13a fresh investigating
32:14officer who in the last
32:16year has been asking for a
32:18fresh list of documents and
32:20questions.
32:22So, what the EC is saying
32:24is that wherever something
32:27is shown to them that there
32:30is irregularities, they are
32:31acting, they acted in 2023,
32:33but you can't expect them to
32:35respond to each and every
32:36request for fresh documents.
32:38If the election commission has
32:45nothing to hide, why are they
32:47speaking through the sources?
32:49Why can't the election
32:50commission speak in response to
32:53this?
32:54Surely they have something to
32:55hide.
32:55That's why they're hiding behind
32:56sources.
32:57Number two, it's not just the CID.
33:00These letters have been written
33:02by the CEO of Karnataka, the chief
33:05election officer who works under
33:07the election commission.
33:09These are requests from that
33:10side as well.
33:12And why can't the election
33:13commission say, all right, this
33:15is our answer.
33:17So, today Rahul Gandhi has made
33:18the response, has made
33:19accusations.
33:21Election commission within an
33:22hour comes with a response.
33:24Lovely.
33:25Why can't you within not one
33:27hour, within five hours, now
33:29this is more than five hours,
33:31it's sort of one full day.
33:32Why can't the election
33:33commission give responses to
33:35these questions?
33:36The questions are quite clear.
33:38Give us the IP, the destination
33:41IP.
33:43Number two, location of the
33:45device, the name, number, and
33:47location of the device.
33:48Number three, OTP mechanism
33:50through which the fraud was
33:51committed.
33:52Election commission can say,
33:53sorry, we don't have this
33:55information.
33:56Or it can say, we have it, but
33:58we won't give it.
33:59Or it can say, here is the
34:01information, take it.
34:03The election commission must
34:04respond.
34:06Sir, you keep saying, you keep
34:08saying, Yogendra Yadav, election
34:10commission must respond.
34:11Now, can the election commission,
34:14does it have to do a point by
34:15point rebuttal every time Rahul
34:17Gandhi speaks?
34:18Or is it better to now,
34:19a omnibus inquiry, at the end of
34:22which, within a fixed time frame,
34:25we will know where we stand?
34:27Otherwise, this tutu mehmeh is going
34:29to continue and only erode public
34:31trust and faith in institutions.
34:33Would you accept a time-bound
34:35inquiry now ordered by the EC
34:36itself?
34:41Rajdeep, election commission surely
34:43has the time to respond to Rahul
34:45Gandhi, which they have.
34:46So either they must be so busy that
34:48they cannot respond to him.
34:50And if this is a leader of the
34:51opposition in the country, so you
34:53have the time to give a five-point
34:54response and you don't have the time
34:56to give the information that is
34:57being demanded.
34:58And this is not the one case, Rajdeep.
34:59This is happening in case after case
35:01after case.
35:03Rahul Gandhi says in Mahadevapura,
35:05here is an evidence of one lakh
35:06fraud, possibly fraudulent voters.
35:08Election commission says, you must
35:10file an affidavit.
35:12Akhilesh Yadav says, I have filed
35:1318,000 affidavits.
35:15Was something done there?
35:17In the election commission says, you
35:19have filed all these objections after
35:21the election.
35:21We don't take it seriously.
35:23In Panwale, he had filed this
35:25objection before the election.
35:2785,000 suspected duplicates name.
35:29Did you take any action?
35:32And in the ongoing SIR in Bihar,
35:35why are you not disclosing the names
35:38of the people who have been given
35:39notices?
35:40So time and again, election
35:42commission puts the onus on people
35:45like us on the ground, people like
35:47Rahul Gandhi on the opposition.
35:49You come up with evidence which
35:51incidentally lies in my pocket.
35:53How can you do that?
35:54This is a joke.
35:55This is ridiculous.
35:57And I'm very sad to say when you
35:58said in the beginning,
35:59Yogen Jadav is leading a campaign.
36:02Rajdeep, I have admired this institution.
36:06I have defended this institution
36:08all over the world.
36:09And as any Indian, I have saluted
36:12this institution.
36:13And I feel very, very sad that we
36:15have to speak like this about this
36:16institution.
36:17I really, really hope that the election
36:20commission of India starts behaving
36:22like a constitutional authority.
36:24But you see, is the solution then
36:28to go to the Supreme Court
36:30as you and others did
36:31for the SIR exercise
36:33and then ask questions
36:35this time on the electoral rolls,
36:37perhaps get some kind of a mandamus
36:38order from the court
36:39because otherwise
36:40we are caught in this constant.
36:42You said this,
36:43he said this,
36:44the EC,
36:45you know, the
36:45as I call it,
36:47is it better now to have a
36:48Supreme Court monitored inquiry
36:50in your view?
36:50If it's a one-time
36:57ordered inquiry
36:58which is widespread,
37:00possibly yes.
37:01But let us remember
37:02the court,
37:03Supreme Court
37:04or any other court
37:05is after all
37:06a third umpire.
37:07You cannot take
37:08every no-ball
37:08and every white ball
37:09to a third umpire.
37:10A third umpire steps in
37:12once in a while.
37:13And if everyone assumes
37:15that the two umpires
37:16who are on the field
37:18are actually not umpires
37:19but part of the team,
37:20then what is left
37:22in the game?
37:22So I'm actually very sad.
37:24I don't want Judiciary
37:26to step in everything.
37:28I really want
37:29the election commission.
37:30I mean,
37:31the field umpires
37:32cannot be replaced.
37:33Field umpires
37:34have to behave
37:35like field umpires.
37:37And if they continue
37:38to do what they are doing,
37:40I really don't see
37:41an endgame
37:42to what's happening here.
37:43I'm actually very sad.
37:45I'm very apprehensive.
37:48And I would really,
37:49I mean,
37:49I don't want the court
37:51to lead everything
37:52in this country.
37:53You cannot ask the court
37:54to do the job
37:55of every other institution
37:56of this country.
37:58But is the answer there,
38:00is the answer,
38:01Yogendra Yadav,
38:02as the EC seems to suggest,
38:03look,
38:03we are going in for now
38:04a nationwide
38:05special intensive revision,
38:07a nationwide SIR exercise.
38:09We'll put in checks
38:10and balances.
38:11Are the anomalies
38:12that you and others
38:13have found in BR
38:14enough to suggest
38:15that there is something rotten
38:16even in the SIR exercise?
38:18Or are you willing
38:19to give them a benefit
38:20of the doubt
38:21as they go across
38:21the country saying,
38:22we are purifying the roles.
38:24We will ensure
38:24there are no wrongful
38:26deletions, additions.
38:27We want to be transparent.
38:29Are you willing
38:29to give them
38:29the benefit of doubt?
38:30Rajdeep,
38:35I'm willing
38:35to not only
38:37give benefit of doubt,
38:38I would actually say
38:39it is election commission's
38:40duty and their right
38:42to clean the electoral rolls.
38:44However,
38:44what is called SIR
38:45is not a solution.
38:47It's a problem.
38:48Just to give you
38:48one single instance,
38:50the election commission
38:51in its own rules
38:52says that if there is
38:53one household
38:54where more than
38:5510 electors exist,
38:57then there's something
38:58suspicious or funny
38:59about it.
39:00please go and verify it.
39:01Now,
39:02election commission
39:02has conducted this SIR
39:04which is supposed
39:05to be that lovely exercise
39:06where everything
39:07has been proved.
39:08Do you know
39:09the number of households
39:10in Bihar
39:12after the SIR
39:14has been done
39:15where there are
39:16more than 10 voters
39:18in a single house?
39:20Rajdeep,
39:21the number is
39:2116,90,000 households
39:25and the number of voters
39:27in those households
39:28is 2 crores
39:3078,00,000,000.
39:31Is this cleaning
39:33and pruning
39:33of electoral rolls?
39:35Have things got better
39:36or have things got worse?
39:39May I simply suggest
39:40that the election commission
39:41could please do
39:43old-style intensive revision
39:45which is to say
39:46ask the BLO
39:48to go from house to house.
39:50Ask them to make inquiries.
39:52No need to get them
39:53to fill any form.
39:55No need to ask
39:56for any document
39:57unless there is
39:58a special suspicion
39:59about someone.
40:00Just go house to house
40:02good old-style enumeration
40:04just as the census
40:05of India does
40:06about which there is
40:06not much of a controversy.
40:08Just do that
40:09and to begin with
40:10if election commission
40:11really is serious
40:12about checking
40:13what they have done
40:14in SIR,
40:14may I suggest
40:16that election commission
40:17can ask a government agency
40:18ask the NSSO
40:20of India National Sample Survey
40:21to conduct
40:23a 1% sample check
40:24of the accuracy
40:25of the electoral rolls
40:27in Bihar
40:28after the SIR.
40:29The nation
40:30will get to know
40:31the truth.
40:32May I in conclusion
40:34ask you a political question?
40:36There are those
40:36who say the opposition,
40:38the Congress in particular
40:39are simply changing
40:40the goalposts.
40:41For a long time
40:42they said something
40:43is wrong with EVMs.
40:44Now they have turned
40:45to electoral rolls.
40:46The truth according to them
40:47is the Congress
40:48and opposition
40:48is not good enough
40:49to win elections.
40:50Why are you blaming
40:51the EC
40:52for your own weaknesses
40:53and faults?
40:54Look,
40:58the fight
40:59between the ruling party
41:00and the opposition
41:01will go on.
41:02I don't expect
41:03opposition to praise
41:04the ruling party.
41:04I don't expect
41:05the ruling party
41:06to praise the opposition.
41:08The trouble is
41:09about the umpire.
41:10What is the umpire doing?
41:11If you suspect
41:12that an umpire
41:13is doing multiple
41:14kinds of problems
41:16then can you say
41:17that no,
41:18please bring
41:18only one complaint.
41:19No, don't bring
41:20three complaints.
41:21If you suspect
41:22that the game
41:23is being
41:23manipulated
41:24at multiple levels,
41:26obviously different
41:27kinds of complaints
41:28would come.
41:29Initially in Mahadevapura
41:30the complaint
41:31was about
41:31suspected inclusion.
41:33In Alanda
41:33the complaint
41:34is about
41:35suspected deletion.
41:37There are malpractices.
41:38As many malpractices
41:39as you see,
41:41you would have
41:41as many complaints.
41:43And why is it
41:44that the BJP
41:45is responding
41:46on behalf
41:46of the election commission?
41:47Why doesn't
41:48the election commission
41:49respond?
41:50Why is it
41:51that it is,
41:51you know,
41:52it should be a match
41:52between two teams?
41:54Why is it
41:55that the umpires
41:56are looking
41:56like part
41:57of a team?
42:00Yogendra Yadav,
42:01for joining me
42:01and telling me
42:02why you believe
42:03the EC
42:03has much
42:04to answer for,
42:06I appreciate
42:06you joining us.
42:07Two sides
42:08of the story,
42:09no noise,
42:10information.
42:11Good to have that.
42:12Yogendra Yadav
42:13and N. Gopal Sami,
42:14giving two sides
42:15of that big story.
42:15Let's turn
42:16to our other
42:17big story
42:17I want to focus
42:18on tonight
42:18because it's
42:19an international
42:20story where
42:20Saudi Arabia
42:21and Pakistan
42:22today inked
42:23a major
42:24mutual defense
42:26pact
42:26and say they
42:27will now treat
42:28an attack
42:29on each other
42:30as an attack
42:31on both countries.
42:33Saudi Arabia's
42:34crown prince
42:35Mohammed bin Salman
42:36and Pakistan's
42:37Prime Minister
42:37Shabas Sharif
42:39sealing that
42:39important deal
42:40in Riyadh
42:41with Pakistan's
42:42Army Chief
42:42Asim Munir
42:43also present.
42:45Under this deal,
42:46any aggression
42:46against either country
42:47will be treated
42:48as an act of
42:49aggression
42:50against both.
42:51Where does this
42:52leave India?
42:54Does this now
42:55formally legalize
42:56the use of
42:56Pakistani nuclear
42:57weapons to defend
42:58the Saudi kingdom?
43:00And how does
43:01India react
43:02and how should
43:03India react
43:04to this new
43:05equation?
43:07Joining me now
43:08is someone
43:09who is seen
43:09widely as India's
43:10expert when it
43:11comes to Saudi
43:12Arabia,
43:12Talmiz Ahmed,
43:13former envoy
43:14to Saudi Arabia
43:15joins me.
43:16Mr. Ahmed,
43:17thanks for
43:17joining me.
43:18How do you see
43:19this new agreement,
43:20a strategic
43:21mutual defense
43:22agreement signed
43:23by Pakistan
43:24and Saudi Arabia
43:25under which
43:26the two sides
43:27now say
43:27an attack
43:28on either
43:28of them
43:29would be
43:30considered
43:30an aggression
43:31against both?
43:36This agreement
43:37is a very
43:38quick response
43:41to Israel's
43:43attack upon
43:44Doha.
43:45With that
43:46attack,
43:47Israel had
43:48proclaimed
43:48that every
43:50space
43:51in West
43:52Asia,
43:53including the
43:54royal families
43:55and their
43:56military facilities
43:58were now
43:59within the
44:00Israeli target
44:01zone.
44:03Israel had
44:03rejected
44:04also any
44:07restraint
44:07caused by
44:09the United
44:10States security
44:11arrangements
44:12with these
44:13Gulf countries
44:13over the
44:14last 50 years.
44:15obviously
44:16with the
44:17breakdown
44:17of the
44:18security
44:18order
44:19all across
44:20the region,
44:21there is a
44:22need,
44:22the region
44:23has felt
44:23that there is
44:25a need to
44:25build up
44:26a new
44:27security
44:27arrangement.
44:29So Saudi
44:29Arabia has
44:30gone back
44:31to its
44:32traditional
44:32military
44:33partner,
44:34Pakistan,
44:34and has
44:35very quickly
44:36signed a
44:38military agreement
44:39with them,
44:39a defense
44:40agreement with
44:41them.
44:41This is
44:41the
44:41background.
44:42But Talmi
44:43Zayman,
44:44yes,
44:44Israel targeted
44:45Doha and
44:46that might be
44:46the immediate
44:47reason for
44:47this kind
44:48of fact,
44:49but the
44:49fact also
44:50is there
44:50was a
44:50skirmish
44:51between
44:51India,
44:52a war
44:52between
44:52India and
44:53Pakistan
44:53only in
44:54May,
44:54Operation
44:55Sindhuur.
44:55God forbid
44:56if there
44:57was to be
44:57another terror
44:58attack and
44:59India was
44:59to declare
45:00war on
45:00Pakistan,
45:02Saudi
45:02Arabia under
45:03this agreement
45:03would see it
45:04as a war
45:05against Saudi
45:06Arabia itself.
45:06Am I
45:07right?
45:07I don't
45:11believe that
45:12that aspect
45:13should give
45:15us sleepless
45:15nights.
45:16I do not
45:17envisage any
45:18scenario in
45:20which Saudi
45:21Arabia will
45:22stand side
45:23by side with
45:24Pakistan on
45:25the battlefield
45:26against India.
45:27Such a
45:28scenario is
45:29not feasible
45:30and I don't
45:31think that it
45:32has got any
45:33unique value.
45:35We are looking
45:36at it from the
45:37perspective
45:37relating to
45:38Delhi.
45:39But I
45:39think this
45:40language relates
45:41it's a very
45:41general language
45:43and it is
45:44used very
45:45frequently in
45:46such defense
45:47agreements.
45:48It is there
45:48in all the
45:49NATO agreements
45:50but I don't
45:51believe that
45:52here we
45:53need to have
45:55any special
45:55worries in
45:56this regard.
45:57So are you
45:58saying sir
45:58that India
45:59can have
46:00completely
46:00independent
46:01strategic
46:01relations with
46:02Riyadh
46:03independent of
46:04this defense
46:05pact that
46:06Saudi Arabia
46:07has struck
46:07with Pakistan
46:08you can
46:09have two
46:09independent
46:10lines in
46:11a way.
46:16India
46:16already has
46:17a strategic
46:18partnership
46:19agreement with
46:19Saudi Arabia.
46:21It goes
46:22back to
46:222010 when
46:24Dr.
46:24Manmohan Singh
46:25had visited
46:26Riyadh and
46:27it is enshrined
46:28in the Riyadh
46:29declaration.
46:30Since then
46:30due to the
46:31efforts of
46:32Prime Minister
46:33Narendra
46:33Narendra
46:33Modi the
46:35strategic content
46:36has been
46:36given far
46:37greater substance.
46:39We have
46:39dialogue
46:40platforms at
46:41the apex
46:42level, at
46:43the level of
46:43national security
46:44advisor, at
46:45the level of
46:46external affairs
46:47minister and
46:48we have a
46:48very thriving
46:49joint commission.
46:51India's
46:51approach to
46:52the region
46:52is bilateral.
46:55Therefore we
46:55have very
46:56substantial ties,
46:58indeed strategic
46:59ties with all
47:00the countries of
47:01the region, but
47:02we are not
47:03involved with
47:04the region's
47:04security.
47:05We have not
47:06so far taken
47:07a serious
47:09regional perspective
47:10as far as
47:11security is
47:12concerned.
47:13Therefore, as
47:14far as we are
47:15concerned, we
47:15have a very
47:16similar arrangement
47:17with the
47:18Saudis, though
47:19obviously India
47:20does not
47:21involve itself
47:22with any
47:23security role
47:25as far as
47:26the region is
47:27concerned.
47:27Pakistan has a
47:28very different
47:29approach, which
47:30is why
47:30Saudi relations
47:31with India
47:32and Saudi
47:33relations with
47:34Pakistan are
47:35completely
47:35different.
47:36As far as we
47:38are concerned,
47:39Saudi Arabia
47:39looks at us
47:40as an energy
47:42partner, economic
47:43partner, logistical
47:44connectivity
47:45partner, and we
47:46have a substantial
47:47community, and we
47:49are also
47:49technological
47:50partners.
47:51As far as
47:51Pakistan is
47:52concerned, none
47:53of these matter
47:54to that
47:54relationship.
47:56Pakistan is
47:57crucially a
47:59part of a
47:59defence arrangement
48:00as far as the
48:01kingdom is
48:02concerned, and
48:03this is the
48:03role that it
48:04has played for
48:05the last 60,
48:0670 years.
48:06My final
48:08question, sir,
48:09given what the
48:09uncertainty that
48:10we have seen in
48:11the region, in
48:12West Asia,
48:14Netanyahu and
48:16the Israelis
48:16striking at
48:18different countries
48:19around them,
48:20the fact what
48:21happened in Doha
48:22a few days ago,
48:24do you believe
48:24that this
48:25agreement will
48:25only widen the
48:26sense of
48:27instability in
48:28the region,
48:29could lead to
48:29Pakistan getting
48:30involved more
48:32and more in
48:33the Middle East,
48:34and where does
48:34it leave the
48:35US and China?
48:38These are very
48:39legitimate concerns.
48:41The reason is
48:43in turmoil, and
48:45this is
48:45overwhelmingly due
48:46to the absence
48:47of any strategic
48:48vision or purpose
48:49in Tel Aviv.
48:51Israel is
48:52now just
48:53involved with
48:54mass murder
48:55as an end
48:56in itself.
48:57There is no
48:57strategic purpose
48:59as far as
49:00their actions
49:00are concerned.
49:01Their prime
49:02minister wishes
49:03to prolong the
49:04conflict as
49:05much as
49:05possible.
49:06The world's
49:07peace process
49:08and ceasefire
49:09are totally
49:10anathema to
49:11him because
49:11they could
49:12open up
49:13serious inquiries
49:14into his
49:15own conduct,
49:16both with
49:16regard to
49:17corruption and
49:18with regard to
49:19the responsibility
49:20for the
49:217th October
49:22attack.
49:23Therefore,
49:23for him,
49:24these are just
49:25attacks which
49:25will continue.
49:26He has also
49:27found that
49:28the Americans
49:29have no
49:30interest or
49:31capacity to
49:32restrain him.
49:33We had all
49:34imagined that
49:35Secretary of
49:36State Rubio,
49:37when he had
49:37gone across to
49:38Tel Aviv and
49:39Jerusalem, he
49:41would counsel
49:42restraint.
49:43On the contrary,
49:44he has done
49:45no such thing.
49:46He has voiced
49:47total support
49:48for Netanyahu
49:49as far as
49:50Hamas is
49:50concerned, as
49:51far as
49:51Gaza is
49:52concerned, and
49:53indeed, there
49:54is no
49:54indication that
49:55the Americans
49:56have any
49:56concern about
49:58the mass
49:58murder and
49:59genocide that
50:00is being
50:00perpetrated by
50:01Israel.
50:02Therefore, the
50:02rest of the
50:03region has
50:04to now
50:05develop
50:05alternative
50:07security
50:08arrangements that
50:10are credible.
50:11I think there
50:12will be a
50:12churn.
50:13There will be
50:14lots of
50:14discussion in
50:17this regard.
50:18Many countries
50:18that have been
50:19subordinate to
50:20the American
50:21strategic
50:22architecture will
50:24now be
50:25rebuilding new
50:26arrangements among
50:27themselves.
50:28Therefore, you
50:29will see a lot
50:30of activity
50:31taking place.
50:32These are very
50:33early days.
50:34We cannot
50:34necessarily study
50:36the implications
50:36of each and
50:37every event.
50:38For example,
50:39where the
50:39Pakistan-Saudi
50:40agreement is
50:41concerned, we
50:42have still to
50:43see what are
50:44the details.
50:46This is a
50:47very quick
50:48statement of
50:49mutual solidarity.
50:51But what are
50:51the details?
50:52What is the
50:52role that is
50:53envisaged for
50:54Pakistan?
50:55And in what
50:56situation will
50:59its troops be
50:59engaged?
51:01Will there be
51:02major exercises
51:03that will bring
51:04their armed
51:04forces together?
51:06Will this
51:06agreement only
51:07confine itself
51:08to Saudi
51:09Arabia?
51:09Will other
51:10GCC countries
51:11also become
51:11partners?
51:12All of these
51:13are not known
51:14to us.
51:15Above all,
51:15we don't
51:16know what
51:16is the
51:17role of
51:17China.
51:18China is
51:18a very
51:19major economic
51:20and defense
51:21partner as
51:22far as
51:22Pakistan is
51:23concerned and
51:24as far as
51:25Saudi Arabia
51:25is concerned.
51:26Surely there
51:27could be a
51:28triangular
51:28arrangement between
51:30them for
51:30mutual benefit.
51:32All of these
51:32are matters that
51:33we will be
51:34looking at in
51:35the coming
51:35weeks.
51:36As of now,
51:37the region is
51:38in churn,
51:39lot of
51:39uncertainty
51:40directly due
51:42to the
51:43mishaps
51:43emanating
51:45from Tel
51:45Aviv on
51:46the one
51:46hand and
51:47Washington
51:47on the
51:48other.
51:49You know,
51:50Talmi Zayman,
51:50for giving us
51:51that big picture
51:52so comprehensively,
51:54I really
51:54appreciate you
51:55joining me
51:56here.
51:57A horrific
51:57accident has
51:58come to
51:59light from
51:59the national
52:00capital last
52:01night where
52:02an accident
52:02claimed the
52:03life of a
52:04disabled man.
52:05What's
52:05shocking is
52:06this precious
52:06life was
52:07claimed by
52:08those who
52:08are meant
52:08to protect
52:09us.
52:09a police
52:10van hit
52:11a man
52:11on the
52:11roadside
52:12leading to
52:13his death
52:13on the
52:13spot.
52:14What happens
52:15when protectors
52:16go out of
52:16control?
52:17Take a look
52:18at tonight's
52:19special story.
52:31Delhi's killer
52:31road striking
52:32again.
52:33A disabled
52:34man crushed
52:35to death by
52:36a Delhi
52:36police PCR
52:37van.
52:37The Delhi
52:39police vehicle
52:39smashed into
52:40his family
52:41owned roadside
52:41stall.
52:43A life
52:43cut shot
52:44by those
52:45meant to
52:45protect.
52:47Images
52:47from the
52:48moment after
52:48the crash
52:49show the
52:49locals
52:50confronting
52:50the two
52:51cops who
52:51were in
52:51the vehicle.
52:58The Delhi
52:58police claimed
52:59that the
52:59driver hit
53:00the accelerator
53:00by mistake.
53:02The van
53:02driver lost
53:03control,
53:04killing the
53:04bystander by
53:05the name of
53:05Ganga Ram.
53:06But eyewitnesses
53:07allege
53:08otherwise.
53:09They say
53:09the policemen
53:10were drunk.
53:11police
53:16in the
53:16car.
53:17Delhi police suspended both men in uniform, Constable Khimesh who was driving and an ASI
53:45who was accompanying them.
53:48This is the bi-lane where a PCR van comes and the tire evidence, the mark of the tire is
53:56very much visible on the bi-lane and it ramps into the tea stall out there where Ganga Ram
54:01Tiwari, possibly in his early 50s, was sleeping and he died on the very spot.
54:07FSL has already taken the samples from the spot.
54:10The Delhi police senior officials had come to meet the relatives of the person who has
54:16died in this accident saying that they will be providing all possible financial support
54:21to the family and action will be taken against the culprits after a proper investigation.
54:27An FIR has been registered.
54:30The crime team and the Delhi police are probing the case.
54:33But the question remains, who takes responsibility when protectors turn killers?
54:40With Amit Bhardwaj, Bureau Report, India Today.
54:45I'm afraid that's all that we could pack in on the news today tonight.
54:52Thanks very much for watching.
54:54Stay well.
54:55Stay safe.
54:56Good night.
54:57Shubratri.
54:58Jai Hind.
54:59Namaskar.
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