- 6 weeks ago
On Friday's edition of Zolak and Bertrand, the guys reacted to the news of the Dallas Cowboys trading star pass rusher, Micah Parsons, to the Green Bay Packers. The guys then questioned whether or not the Patriots should have gotten involved when it came to trading for the 2x All-Pro.
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00:00Sure enough, they send him to the Green Bay Packers.
00:04What did you make of the trade, Paul?
00:06Stunning. Stunning trade.
00:07And how many times do you see guys like this, you know, these kinds of contracts,
00:13they get stalled, the negotiations are going, and then they stop,
00:16and then there's, you know, the social media stuff happens, you know,
00:20we're scrubbing all this stuff, and then usually they get resolved.
00:23You don't see trades of players of this magnitude at this age.
00:28Especially, especially with the Dallas Cowboys.
00:32I was talking with this about Dundaro.
00:33I don't know if you've been watching the Netflix documentary about the 90s Cowboys.
00:36I just started. I watched the very first one.
00:38But, yeah, I like what I've seen so far.
00:40I mean, Jerry talks about how it's a show, and we've seen it time and time again
00:43with the contract negotiations with Dallas where they get strung out,
00:46and he takes forever, and then all of a sudden they ultimately come to an agreement.
00:50So the fact that Micah Parsons, on top of all this, actually gets dealt from Dallas,
00:54a team that loves the Stars, extra stunning.
00:56Sorry to cut you off. Continue.
00:58No, I totally agree with you.
01:00And that's exactly how I feel about it.
01:02And you just don't see guys of this magnitude at this stage of their careers.
01:07You see some older guys, you know, you move on, and, you know,
01:11like the Belichick adage of, you know, we're going to cut ties maybe a year too early.
01:15We know he's still a good player.
01:17You know, even like Tyreek Hill, you know, when he leaves Kansas City.
01:20Still a good player.
01:21But this guy, what's he, 25?
01:2426 years old.
01:2526?
01:26I mean, he's in the absolute prime of his career.
01:30He's, you know, one of the handful best player.
01:33I mean, what, top 10 player in the league?
01:34Top 5 player in the league?
01:36Certainly top 5 defensive player in the league.
01:39No doubt.
01:40You just don't see guys like this get traded.
01:43You know, and then that's a big-time contract too, you know, from Green Bay.
01:47I think it was like $134 guaranteed, something like that.
01:51$134 guaranteed.
01:52I think $188 overall.
01:54$188 overall.
01:54I'm not talking, you know, just the guarantee part.
01:58You're talking like, you know, like $33, $34 million a year.
02:02That's a ton of money.
02:03Yeah.
02:03You know, over that, you know, a four-year contract.
02:06So, just an absolute stunning deal right on the eve of the season.
02:09Who do you like to deal for more?
02:10Who do you think won this deal, Packers or Cowboys?
02:13So, I would say the Packers.
02:15I think the Packers are a team that's really good.
02:18I don't necessarily think of them as a title contender.
02:21This might be the kind of move that you make that can push you in that direction.
02:26Now, a lot's going to depend on Jordan Love.
02:28We know that.
02:28But the Packers are a really good team that got a lot better with this guy.
02:33So, I would say the Packers won.
02:35Well, the Cowboys have certainly been getting dragged on social media for this move.
02:38And Micah Parsons, obviously the biggest name in this trade.
02:41Like you said, top five player on the defensive side.
02:45Entering his prime.
02:46Not even in his prime at this point.
02:48I'm not going to defend the way that Jerry Jones handled this situation.
02:54I'm not going to defend the way that it all took place or the timing of the deal.
02:57Because you can certainly make the argument that if you wanted to maximize the value, you get this done prior to the draft.
03:03No question.
03:03But overall, when you kind of look at what normally takes place when a team trades multiple first-round picks for a player, very rarely is it a slam dunk for the team that gets that elite player on the other side.
03:20And I wouldn't say it's a slam dunk.
03:21I still think Green Bay get an edge.
03:24But I think that what Jerry Jones is probably thinking is how you are sort of skirting around.
03:30You know, go back to the documentary.
03:32What do you think this is for Jerry Jones?
03:34The Herschel Walker trade 2.0.
03:36Absolutely.
03:36That's what he thinks.
03:37I just don't think they got as many picks.
03:39You know, it's two ones, right?
03:41Yep.
03:42And I'm not saying that's nothing.
03:43I mean, I would have thought if Parsons was going to move, it was going to be multiple first-round picks.
03:47I think we actually talked about this, I think, last Friday, never in my mind that I think it was going to happen.
03:54But, yeah, I mean, I think it's certainly a fair price that Green Bay took.
03:58But now, in order for you to really win this trade, the part of the Herschel Walker deal that people kind of miss is just how good the players were that Dallas drafted, that Jimmy Johnson acquired with those picks.
04:09Paul, I'm so glad you brought this up because this really – and I'm going to go through some of the trades that have happened in recent years.
04:16with multiple first-round picks because it does give you the foundation.
04:20Hell, we even saw this, by the way, with the Boston Celtics when you talk about the trade with the Nets.
04:25Everyone talks about what a slam-dunk trade – and it was.
04:28Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown, the ammunition to go out and get Kyrie Irving for sure.
04:32But the key to that was actually drafting Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum.
04:36Correct.
04:36What if you took Markel Fultz?
04:38We look at that trade completely differently.
04:40To me, the trade is the same, but it's not remembered the way it is if you don't take Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum instead.
04:50You have to nail the picks that were given to you, and you have to actually use that ammunition to lay the foundation.
04:55But what this trade does do for the Dallas Cowboys is give you an opportunity here to lay a foundation moving forward for a team that –
05:03do you think the Cowboys were actually Super Bowl contenders going into this year?
05:07So, no, I would put Dallas in a similar spot as Green Bay.
05:11I think if healthy, and if everything is healthy for Dallas, I think they're a good team.
05:15But, no, I don't look at them as Philadelphia or even Detroit.
05:19I think those teams are ahead of them.
05:20And, you know, I'm going to be curious to see what San Francisco looks like, you know, fully healthy, back whole.
05:28I would put teams like Dallas a notch below that.
05:31But certainly a playoff-worthy team.
05:33So, Bill Barnwell wrote about this trade over on ESPN.com, and he laid out just the financial commitment that you would be making for –
05:44and now, again, this is one where you really – I don't know how much credit you can give Jerry Jones for this
05:49if you are on the side of liking this deal for the Dallas Cowboys because Jerry Jones did think that he had a handshake agreement
05:55with Micah Parsons in April for a contract, right?
05:58So, his initial plan was to bring him back, but essentially, Barnwell writes about how if you were going to make this commitment
06:03with Micah Parsons, you were going to have three players in CeeDee Lamb, Dak Prescott, and Micah Parsons
06:10combining for an average of $141 million per year on your salary cap.
06:16That's three players eating a substantial piece and now trying to build the rest of your roster around those three guys.
06:21Can you actually build a Super Bowl contender?
06:23Now, you can debate whether or not –
06:25Yes. The short answer to that is yes, you can.
06:27It just takes a little creativity, but yes, you can.
06:29And the other part of that, too, I would say is, all right, well, yes, there's a ton of money committed to those three players,
06:34but is Micah Parsons the one of those three players that you would get rid of?
06:37I would argue that you probably would want to move on from another one of those players rather than Micah Parsons.
06:41Either way, what this does do is free up a ton of caps.
06:44So, you not only get the picks, but you also get the ammunition in terms of going out and be able to free up the cap space
06:51to go add other players to your roster.
06:53And the trade that keeps getting brought up with this Micah Parsons trade is the Khalil Mack trade that the Bears did.
07:00I cleaned some of this up because if you actually do the web and try to connect the dots,
07:04you look like the Charlie Day meme where he's got all the strings attached because there's 47 different permutations.
07:09But essentially, Bears received Khalil Mack in a second-round pick, which turned into Cole Komet along with a seventh-rounder.
07:17The Raiders received a 2019 first-round pick, which wound up being Josh Jacobs, a 2020 first-round pick,
07:24which they absolutely blew, and Damon Arnett ended up playing nine games, I think, and then got cut.
07:29And then they had the 81st pick in Brian Edwards.
07:33So, again, you got the ammunition with the two first-round picks, but you didn't follow through.
07:40Does it say how old Khalil Mack was?
07:42He was a year older. He was 27.
07:43Only one year older?
07:44Yeah. But it also freed up a ton of space for them to lay down the foundation in free agency and through trade.
07:50So, with that cap space that they would have had to use for Khalil Mack,
07:54they went out and they traded for Antonio Brown, whoops, Trent Brown, and Tyrell Williams.
08:01So, on paper, what the Raiders thought they were doing was trading Khalil Mack
08:04and bringing in three impact players through free agency and trade for your offense
08:09and drafting two first-round picks that were going to be foundational pieces on offense and defense.
08:15Now, none of those players ended up working out, so this goes back to actually cashing in.
08:21But it does give you the flexibility moving forward to kind of do something different
08:24if you want to go in a different direction.
08:25It does.
08:26And what it kind of reminds me of is a little of Tony's old adage of, you know, the horses and ponies.
08:31I mean, you got Khalil Mack, and the idea is, oh, we'll get three or four good players
08:38instead of the one great one, and we'll be better off.
08:40But it's really hard to do that.
08:42And I think that's the underrated part of what J.B. Johnson did with the Herschel-Walker trade.
08:46No doubt.
08:46And I don't have all the names in front of me, but they really created the foundation,
08:52the nucleus of their Super Bowl teams were drafted in those years with, you know,
08:58the Woodson's and the Maryland's and those guys.
09:00Emmitt Smith, go down the list of all the players they brought in.
09:02That's how they got all of those players was through shrewd drafts in the early 90s.
09:07So, I mean, really what it comes down to, and you go through again,
09:10the most recent trades that have taken, Jamal Adams traded from the Seahawks,
09:14from the Jets, turned into Elijah Barrett-Tucker and Garrett Wilson.
09:18Now, that was a terrible trade.
09:21Seriously.
09:21No, it was.
09:22That was a terrible trade by Seattle the day it was made.
09:24There was nobody that was sitting there saying that Jamal Adams was worth two first-round picks.
09:28The other one, Dolphins, setting Laramie Tunsil to the Texans for two first-round picks.
09:35That wound up turning into Jalen Waddell, Javon Holland, and Tyreek Hill for Miami.
09:42Yeah, I hate the inclusion of the Tyreek Hill part because it's really not the same,
09:47but that's what everybody does.
09:48So, I'll, you know.
09:49I'm surprised you had time this morning to read that Bill Barnwell piece.
09:52You got to carve out a good part of your day if you're going to consistently read Bill.
09:57I was trying to find a paragraph that I could use, and then I bailed.
10:00The guy is incredibly detailed.
10:01Bill Barnwell is my go-to when I want to really sort of—
10:05Fall asleep at night?
10:06No, when I want to really—you know, like, if you have a thing like,
10:10how did Washington get so good from one year to the next, beyond the obvious of Jaden Daniels?
10:17Deep dive.
10:17Bill Barnwell's your guy.
10:19Yeah.
10:19He's going to give you every detail of that.
10:22It's just, you know, I rarely have enough time to read it.
10:25I mean, generally, there are 5,000-word treatises.
10:27This one certainly was as well.
10:29Yeah.
10:29So, we're picking our way through.
10:30But, yeah, we poached that one paragraph for this segment.
10:33617-779-0985.
10:36I will say, Jerry Jones put on a master class press conference last night bringing up this trade.
10:41He also talked about how the teams that were in on this deal were going to have to give up multiple picks,
10:46have the cap space, and a defensive tackle that they would want.
10:50You know what team checks in one of those boxes and all those boxes actually, Paul?
10:54The New England Patriots.
10:55What did you want the Patriots to do here?
10:57Yeah, we'll talk about it.
10:58I don't think the Cowboys got as fleeced as everyone is making it sound like.
11:01I really don't.
11:02I think there is—now, you have to execute for sure,
11:05but it does give you the building blocks moving forward to try to build a foundation around a team
11:09that wasn't a Super Bowl contender, I don't think.
11:12I would agree that I don't think they got fleeced.
11:14I just—I think you don't give away talents in the prime of their career, really, for any prime.
11:20I think you work hard in the draft to get a player like Micah Parsons
11:23and then to deal him for two first-round picks
11:25and hope that you get another Micah Parsons, to me, is kind of spinning your wheels.
11:29So, when you talk about landing spots, because the Cowboys mismanaged it
11:33in terms of training him at this point in the season,
11:35there were very limited teams that add the cap space to actually absorb a Micah Parsons
11:39and also a Michael or Micah.
11:41Is it Michael or Micah?
11:42I made a commitment to Michael this spring.
11:45Jeez, sorry, Jerry.
11:47Micah Parsons.
11:50Patriots are one of them.
11:51Patriots had the cap space to pull this off.
11:53You have the picks.
11:55And the Cowboys also wanted to stop the run, so you needed a defensive tackle,
11:58whether that was Christian Barmore, Milton Williams.
12:01Go down the list.
12:02Would you have made that deal if the Cowboys called you and said,
12:05two first-round picks in Christian Barmore for Micah Parsons,
12:07and you have to pay him and make him the highest-paid, non-defensive player in the league?
12:12So, yeah, I would have, but that's a lot.
12:16That's a lot to give up.
12:18But the whole cap space thing, to me, is secondary to the money.
12:23Like, that's a lot of money.
12:25And not every team is just going to be willing to, you know, I give Green Bay credit.
12:29That's a big contract.
12:29And if it's 130-plus guaranteed, then that's pretty real.
12:34Forget the 188, okay, but I think it's 136 or something guaranteed.
12:40That's a lot of guaranteed money, and not every team would be willing to do that.
12:44I don't know.
12:45Like, do you want to give up those resources in that money?
12:49Well, that makes it a little bit more difficult.
12:51Now, with Barmore, I think Barmore's a terrific player.
12:55He's got a big contract, too.
12:57So you're giving up that contract, which helps you financially if you want to take on the money back.
13:03I think Barmore has some uncertainty around him with, you know, the obvious health situation with his blood clots.
13:10You know, throughout the summer, he was sort of managed, I would say.
13:15He was out there every day.
13:16We saw him every day at practice.
13:17But some days during team periods, he participated.
13:20Some days he didn't.
13:21I think they managed him a little bit.
13:22I don't know if that was because of the blood clots or some other health reason or if they're just trying to make sure that they keep him fresh for the season.
13:31But when Barmore's right, he's a really, really disruptive player.
13:35What are your expectations for him and Williams coming into this year for the Patriots?
13:39I think that that will be a strength in definitely in passing situations.
13:44I'm a little concerned in running situations.
13:47I think they're a little bit undersized, you know, but Milton Williams more so.
13:53I think you can have a guy like Tonga out there probably with them or instead of one of them to kind of, you know, stop on early down, stop the run.
14:02But I think those two guys would be a strength of the defense as 120 million fully guaranteed for the Parsons contracts.
14:08Like you said, that is a 120, 120 fully guaranteed.
14:11That's a lot at signing makes Parsons the highest paid non quarterback in NFL history with this contract gets my by me, Tim.
14:19I knew that was a lot.
14:21So 120 million is a lot.
14:23We'll hit the breaking news sounder coming up in just a bit.
14:25Yes.
14:26But on top of that, you're also giving up the two first round.
14:30It's hard.
14:30That's a lot.
14:31As good as Micah Parsons is, it's going to be hard to live up to that trade from the simple fact of what you're, you're paying him market value.
14:38And on top of that, giving up those assets in the draft, that's a, that's a huge, huge price to pay if you're the, if you're the Packers.
14:45And in that league, there's, I don't know what the percentage is, but there's a significant percentage chance that the player ends up getting hurt and you lose him, you know, as Jerry, you know, pointed out in the off season, you know, how many games he played last year.
15:00Like he's been pretty durable, but you never know when all of a sudden the guy who's been pretty durable misses time.
15:08We go back to the Columac trades, but I had a healthy first year with the Bears and then injuries, he's out the door by year four there.
15:15So again, it's tough to compare, uh, players, but like you said, especially at that position too, you know, we'll see their huge expectations and, and look, a huge swing for the Packers.
15:25Um, I, I like that deal.
15:27I like going all in for it.
15:28I just, I don't think the Cowboys should be getting ripped as badly as they are.
15:32Well, I think that they're getting ripped more so for all the missteps along the way.
15:37It didn't have to come to this.
15:38No, they could have probably gotten something done.
15:41That was a little bit more, um, amenable for both sides and didn't have to get as acrimonious as it did.
15:47And I think Jerry sort of fanned the flames on that.
15:49You know, it's funny.
15:50You were talking about like, is it Michael or Micah?
15:52And you kind of listened to Jerry and you're like, it sounds like an old, you know, like an older man, but like you go back and you watch the documentary and you see his like introductory press conference when he was obviously a much younger man.
16:04And he kind of sounds the same.
16:05He does sound the same.
16:07He was rambling all over the place.
16:08And I'll say this too.
16:10You know, he can get ripped on social media, all that stuff based on what he went through when he first took over the Cowboys.
16:15It is not going to impact him.
16:16They're throwing parades for Tom Landry and he's totally fine with blowing him out and bringing in his guys.
16:21So, no, that's not going to impact his decision making.
16:24That's for sure.
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