- 5 months ago
On Friday's edition of Zolak and Bertrand, with Tim McKone and Paul Perillo, the guys reacted to the Patriots 42-10 defeat at the hands of the NY Giants in the team's final preseason game. While discussing his main takeaways from the game, Perillo explained why both Kyle Dugger and Anfernee Jennings belong on the Patriots final roster.
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00:00The roster cuts have already started after this final preseason game is in the books.
00:05Paul, you are one of very few people across New England that watched that whole game last night.
00:10Did you have any big takeaways from last night?
00:12What was the thing that might have stuck out to you about yesterday?
00:16I mean, a lot of the stuff that people were talking about heading into the game in terms of, like, Kyle Duggar was a big takeaway.
00:23You know, and some of the potential depth pieces, like Cole Strange, I thought, you know, when he played and, more importantly, how he played.
00:34He didn't really play very well.
00:37My big thing with Strange is if you're going to be a backup on the interior, you need to be able to play all three spots.
00:43And he just does not look like he has the ability to play center.
00:47You know, the snaps have been erratic.
00:48He had one last night even that was not accurate.
00:52And he, I thought, struggled just in terms of his assignments.
00:56So, I don't know if you can keep a backup that isn't necessarily versatile enough to play all three of those spots.
01:04You know, they're going to have to figure those things out.
01:06But I will say this about Kyle Duggar.
01:08And I don't really understand exactly what's going on.
01:11I don't know why, you know, the scheme fit is such a problem for him.
01:16And he's one of the best players on the team.
01:20You know, he's one of the – you can't make an argument that he's not one of the 53 best players.
01:26To his credit last night, I'm sure he didn't want to be on the field.
01:30Definitely not.
01:30Right?
01:30Yeah.
01:31He played well.
01:33You know, he's flying around.
01:34He made a couple of big hits in the second half.
01:36He's back deep in, like, that center field kind of role.
01:40I think they were playing quarters and, you know, three deep at times.
01:44You know, he was where he was supposed to be on a couple of deep balls.
01:47And, you know, the interception, obviously, is Jameis being Jameis, throwing the ball to him.
01:53That's about right.
01:5330-30 club.
01:54Yeah.
01:54Right.
01:55But I've seen some veterans in those kinds of spots pout and just mail it in.
02:00He didn't.
02:01He didn't.
02:02So I don't know what that means.
02:03I've never thought that they were going to cut him.
02:06And I still don't think they'll cut him.
02:08I think they're trying to move him.
02:10But I do give him some credit for coming to work last night and playing like a professional.
02:19And I know that sounds like maybe damning with faint praise.
02:22But I don't think everybody does that.
02:25He was out there probably way more players than he wanted to be.
02:31But, you know, he did dominate against lesser competition.
02:34I mean, which is what he should be doing is one, like you said, the best players on the roster.
02:37I also think, like, when you talk about whether or not to keep him, because you're right, he is one of the 53 best players.
02:42No question about it.
02:43And financially, it doesn't make a ton of sense to cut him right now versus keep him on the roster.
02:50I think the – and Zoe talked about this earlier this week.
02:53You know, one of the things that you might point to and say this doesn't make a lot of sense to have him around is if he's in the locker room
02:59and is a guy that was a captain for this defense now in a backup role, what's that dynamic like?
03:04But to your point last night, I think that kind of shows you that maybe that's a guy that would accept that
03:10or at least not make waves in terms of being a distraction in the locker room if you were to keep him on the roster.
03:15Right.
03:15And the other thing would be, you know, you have to be honest with yourself as a coaching staff, too.
03:22You know, I think you're right.
03:24I think Duggar kind of gave you a glimpse to the answer as to how he's going to handle it.
03:28He's going to work as hard as he can to get his spot back.
03:31Like, the players in the locker room will see that.
03:34And they will understand, you know, why is Kyle Duggar not playing again if he should be playing?
03:42Right.
03:42You know, when we were talking on our postgame last night, I just made the comment, like,
03:47can you make an argument that he's not, at minimum, the second-best safety on the team?
03:52You want to say Peppers is better?
03:53I wouldn't.
03:54I think Duggar's a better player than Peppers.
03:55But you want to make an argument that Peppers is a better player?
03:58Fine.
03:59You know, they're very similar kind of guys.
04:01I think Peppers is more physical.
04:03But they both want to play, you know, that box safety kind of role.
04:07You think Peppers is better?
04:08Fine.
04:09You think Jalen Hawkins and Craig Woodson are better than Duggar?
04:13I haven't seen that.
04:15Del Pettis is a better option than Kyle Duggar?
04:18No, that's fair.
04:19I haven't seen that.
04:20So you can want to move on from him because you don't think he's worth the money, and that's fine.
04:24It's your money.
04:25It's not mine.
04:25But I don't think you can make an argument that if he's here and you're paying him, that he shouldn't play.
04:33I don't think you can make a strong argument for a football reason for him not to play.
04:37Duggar, Jennings, Kendrick Bourne, all three of those guys, do you think they're going to be on different rosters by the time Tuesday comes along for the 53-man cutdown?
04:47I think there's some combination.
04:50I don't think all three of those guys will be here, that's for sure.
04:53With Bourne, I wonder if they're going to try to layer in some depth at receiver.
04:58Maybe he opens the season on IR.
04:59We haven't really seen him in, what, three weeks at this point?
05:03You know, more than two weeks anyway.
05:05I think they'll probably try to maybe open it on IR, and that way, you know, he takes September off.
05:14You kind of see where Kyle Williams is and, you know, where, you know, Kayshaun Booty looks, you know, how he looks as, you know, sort of a guy that you're relying on.
05:22Right.
05:23You know, Matt Collins.
05:24Those guys are all working out.
05:27Maybe, you know, you just leave them on IR or you look to move them at that point or something like that.
05:32I don't know.
05:35Anthony Jennings is kind of similar to me to Duggar.
05:38Now, I think Duggar's a better player.
05:40But Anthony Jennings, you know, is one of those guys that, you know, the people talk about the scheme fit.
05:45And I agree.
05:46He's not a sort of run-around, sideline-to-sideline kind of guy.
05:52He's a physical, edge-setting, run-stopping, outside linebacker type.
05:57That's what he does well.
05:59If they don't feel like they need that, then that's fine.
06:02But don't get run-on.
06:05Do you know what I'm saying?
06:06Yeah.
06:06Their defense has definitely gotten smaller and more athletic.
06:09I was listening as I was driving home last night when Greg was on.
06:12Greg Bedard was on with Joe and Alex.
06:15And I was listening to a little of the conversation.
06:17I agree 100% with it.
06:19You know, it just, that's what he is.
06:21But they've decided to go a little smaller and a little bit more athletic, a little bit more aggressive defensively.
06:27That makes you a little susceptible to the run, which I'm fine with.
06:31So you might need some guys, hey, you know, stopping the run's been a problem.
06:37Right, we're starting to get gassed a little bit here.
06:39We need to change up personnel a little bit.
06:40And again, I'd have a hard time believing that Anthony Jennings isn't one of your 53 best players.
06:46It's weird, too, because if you read the Andrew Callahan report, and he talks about Duggar and Jennings both being available for trade.
06:54It seemed like those two players were going in different directions after the Minnesota game, where you had Jennings, who started, you know, running with the practice squad, elevating to the twos, where Duggar has sort of dropped to the place where he is right now.
07:10So maybe there is momentum for Jennings.
07:12The other surprise last night, to me, to be honest with you, was the fact that Keon White was out there and getting the amount of playing time that he did last night.
07:20That's another good one.
07:21He's another one that went, he's kind of going the Duggar route.
07:24He started, you know, sort of playing full time.
07:27And the last week, he's been relegated to the twos.
07:31And, you know, on Tuesday's practice, they sort of had, you saw a pretty good line of demarcation.
07:37There was the guys that you didn't expect to play last night were on one field.
07:41And the guys that you figured would be playing were on the other.
07:45Keon White was on the other.
07:46So you knew he was going to play last night.
07:49The other thing that caught in, you know, I don't think he played great either.
07:52I thought he got beat on the edge a few times, you know, in the run game.
07:56I didn't think he stood out.
07:57Let's put it that way.
07:58I thought he would have, you know, he should have been able to, you know, Anthony Jennings, as an example, against Minnesota, is out there playing against inferior players.
08:06And he gets three sacks.
08:07Yeah.
08:07Yep.
08:08I didn't see that from Keon White last night.
08:09Frustrating, by the way, for White, because that's a guy that we came into this year saying that maybe Mike Vrabel is going to unlock all this potential that you see with Keon White.
08:18And it feels like it's really sort of trailed off here over the last couple of weeks.
08:21Yeah.
08:21And, you know, we had a chance to talk to the defensive coaches, I think, on Tuesday.
08:25I think Mike Smith is the outside linebackers, you know, edge.
08:30He works with the edge guys.
08:31And we sort of, I think Phil Perry asked him a question about unlocking.
08:36I think he used that exact term, Tim, that you just did, Keon White.
08:40And he thought that what would be really important was for him to find a home, like one spot.
08:45And, you know, we didn't really follow up with him as to what that spot is.
08:50But he talked a lot about his physicality, his violence.
08:52And you could see it.
08:53He has great play strength.
08:55If, you know, and when he wins, he generally wins with power, Keon White.
09:00So that, to me, lends itself to an interior guy.
09:03Yep.
09:04More so than an edge guy.
09:06So if that's his one spot, you've invested a lot in Christian Barmore and Milton Williams.
09:11If you're having problems against the run, you're going to go to a big run stuffer like Kyrus Tonga.
09:16Yep.
09:19I don't know exactly where Keon White fits.
09:21Because if he's an interior guy, he's probably going to be behind those guys.
09:26So he's another one.
09:28Third year.
09:29Might there be some value to somebody else looking for, you know, a different kind of player?
09:34I think there'll be some interesting decisions to be made between now and Tuesday when they have to get down to 53.
09:40If you had to guess, Duggar, Jennings, or I'll throw Keon White in there.
09:45Which one is the most likely one to not be on the roster at this point next week?
09:50I would probably say Jennings.
09:52I think Duggar's going to be hard to move because of his contract.
09:55And I think White is still too – the potential's still too high, I think, to give up on.
10:03So I would say Jennings, out of those three, would be the most likely not to be on the roster.
10:07You know, White's one of those guys, too, where it just feels like we've been talking about his potential since he came into the league so far.
10:12And you see flashes of it.
10:13But at some point, don't you have to also just sit there and sort of be like, I guess this sort of is what it is when it comes to this player?
10:19And maybe that potential that we think is going to be unlocked just isn't there.
10:24And you have to kind of accept that this guy is sort of the player that he's showing you to be?
10:28Well, for me, I couldn't agree more.
10:30And I think that people looked at him as like this dynamic pass rusher.
10:34And first of all, that's not what he was in college.
10:37And then he has whatever it was against Cincinnati in that opener last year.
10:41I'd want to say like two and a half or three sacks or something like that.
10:44And like, oh, look at this.
10:45Here we go.
10:46Yeah.
10:46But if you went back and watch the plays, he has, again, his traits are strength, power, violence.
10:55He plays with a lot of violence.
10:57That's how he wins.
10:58His sacks generally come late in the down.
11:00You know, it's not like he just, you know, beats a guy off the edge and he's in in a blink.
11:05Yeah.
11:06Quarterbacks under an avalanche.
11:07He wins with power and persistence.
11:10So, you know, the quarterback holding the ball a little bit, you know, maybe he gets a couple of sacks.
11:15The ball's coming out because the secondary is not holding up.
11:18That's, you know, he's not going to be the guy to affect the passer.
11:22So if you're looking for a 20 sack, a 15 sack guy, I don't think Keon White's your guy.
11:27But if you're looking for a guy who can contribute as an occasional pocket collapser, who, you know, can be a little versatile and do some things.
11:36He's very athletic, sideline to sideline, running down screens and things like that.
11:40I think he has potential to help.
11:45You know, people can contribute a lot.
11:48I think he's going to look into it in his eyes.
11:50He's going to lose the dog.
11:51So definitely he.
11:52We've got attention.
11:53You know, probably the guy wanted to have, you know, are doing everything you think.
11:56But he's going through and not only with him twice as much.
11:58But everybody is pushing for the most.
12:00And I'm hoping that the guy keeps his deceit.
12:03And I think there's some good news lately.
12:05And I think he just does have three messages.
12:06If he doesn't like that, he doesn't have to have that nices and bads.
12:08So we can at least do something.
12:10Because I'm getting everything done.
12:10So I almost always try to keep him doing it out.