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00:00Right back here on the early line of SportsGrid Network here.
00:03You want to tune in and watch us?
00:05We're on a plethora, a ton of spots here,
00:07and also, more importantly, SportsGrid Radio.
00:09And also go over to the SportsGrid app, download it right now.
00:11You can listen to us live wherever you go, the best app in the business.
00:15But for now, it's on the right side of the show.
00:16We're nearing the hottest topics, including out in Oxnard, California.
00:21Every single day, we are hearing news clippings here of Micah Parsons,
00:25what he's saying, but more importantly, what Jerry Jones is saying here.
00:28And here's Jane Slater of the NFL Network, caught up with Jerry Jones.
00:31I bought the Dallas Cowboys with a handshake.
00:34It took about 30 seconds, and I gave the numbers, shook hands.
00:39The details, we worked out later.
00:42As a matter of fact, one of the details involved a lot of money,
00:45and we had to flip a coin over that.
00:46But the fundamental, I'm buying, and you're going to sell it to me for that range,
00:52that's done, and those are done with eye contact and handshake.
00:55All right, so let's get to the bottom of this.
00:58Right, Joe?
00:59So Jerry, again, spouting nonsense.
01:01So what he's saying is, you know, sometimes these deals don't get done on paper first.
01:05It's a handshake, and you look them in the eye.
01:07Did we not do this back in March when you told us that you were in a meeting room
01:11with Micah Parsons, just you and him, and agreed to details, and away you go?
01:15April, May, June, July, now August.
01:19So apparently, Jerry, that's not how you get deals done.
01:21And again, like, can you hear me back there in the 50s, Jerry?
01:28Like, what year are you living in?
01:30We're not shaking hands and annexing Louisiana here, my friend, okay?
01:35This is a totally different world than 2025.
01:38This is about understanding agents are a part of the game.
01:42They have been for, oh, I don't know, what, three, four decades now?
01:46The fact that you haven't spoken directly with Parsons since this supposed handshake or even
01:52contacted his agent in any way, shape, or form is maybe the most unbelievable thing, and
01:57now he's trying to sell it off like this is how we do it in the NFL.
02:02You haven't done business like that in the NFL in 100 years, Jerry.
02:05Stop it, man.
02:06It's just all nonsense.
02:07I need to understand, and I don't know if we're ever going to get to the bottom of it,
02:12but I do need Micah Parsons to pick up that microphone, get that podcast going, and explain
02:16in detail, like step-by-step, how this is going through, how this is not his fault, and how
02:21they have no idea how the Dallas Cowboys do business.
02:24Because once again, it cannot be about money.
02:28You understand, he's going to make more than anybody else.
02:31Now, here's what I need to hear.
02:33Jerry Jones going like, well, you know, TJ Watt got this deal.
02:36Miles Garrett got this deal.
02:38He wants a 30% increase over those deals.
02:40He says, okay, now that's just a little bit too much.
02:42But usually, when you see the record deals come down, all you do is top it by like a percentage
02:47point, so you are the highest paid player, and that's what you deserve.
02:51So again, Joe, it can't be about the money.
02:54Is it personal feelings at this point?
02:56Does he not like the agent?
02:58Does he not like his own football team?
02:59Because nothing good comes out of this.
03:01And I understand in a couple weeks or a couple days, they're going to shake hands,
03:05say, ah, there's a big to-do about nothing.
03:07We got him signed, and away you go.
03:08But distractions on a football team that's trying to get ready for a new season with a
03:13new head coach is never a recipe for, say, you know what?
03:17That really galvanized us.
03:18That we fought with our best football player for months on end, and that drove us to getting
03:24to the Super Bowl.
03:25Stop it.
03:25It's just amazing to me on how we have such short memories here, because if you look back
03:33in the history of Jerry Junk's, he has done this with just about every franchise important
03:40player when a contract came up.
03:43In fact, I think the only guy he didn't do this with was Troy Aikman, and that's because
03:47Jimmy Johnson probably threatened him to death.
03:50But they did it with Emmitt Smith, right?
03:52Emmitt Smith actually had to sit out two games to show how much, how serious he was.
03:58He did it with CD Land last year.
04:00He's been doing it with Dak Prescott ever since Dak Prescott took over as the starting quarterback.
04:05Now he did it with Ezekiel Elliott.
04:07Now he's doing it with Micah Parsons.
04:09Does anybody else see a track record here?
04:12Is there a trend that you're missing?
04:15This is Jerry Jones.
04:16But the fact that he did this, and now he's trying to sell it as if, you know, we're old
04:22school here in Dallas, and Micah Parsons walked into a meeting and thought you were going to
04:27talk about the leadership in a locker room, and you apparently cut him a contract.
04:31Like, you made some sort of deal without his agent present.
04:35None of it surprises me with Jerry Jones, because he's been doing this for how long now, Donnie?
04:40It seems personal with those, because the first time he's like one of the biggest agents
04:44in the NFL, was like, I don't even, I don't even know his name.
04:47It's like, all right, here we go.
04:48Is this where we're going at this point?
04:49So it'll be interesting.
04:50It will end sooner than later, I do believe.
04:52I think he will be playing against the Philadelphia Eagles on that first Thursday in Philadelphia,
04:56kickoff the NFL season.
04:58It is what it is at this point.
04:59But other business deals going around the NFL getting known here.
05:02How about Roger Goodell said yesterday here, just going over what ESPN now owns the red
05:06zone name and could use it for other sports.
05:09So let me ask you this question.
05:10The red zone for a casual fantasy football fan is fantastic.
05:14You get basically every game, but you get the important parts of the game where you just
05:17want to see touchdowns scored and points scored here.
05:19The red zone being used in other markets, does that just mean like college football?
05:24How would you have a red zone for like college basketball?
05:26Every time a team crossed half court, you got to turn the TV on.
05:29Like, how'd that even go?
05:31They've been talking about that for a while.
05:33That's not new.
05:34They have, it's always been a topic of conversation on how can they work.
05:39A lot more media rights involved in college football than necessarily the NFL, right?
05:45So there's a lot of other, a lot of other obstacles when you start talking about college
05:50basketball and college basketball networks and college football.
05:54But they've been wanting to do some sort of style of the red zone for a while now.
06:00The problem is, do we really trust ESPN to pull all of this off and put it together?
06:07My fear, Donnie, is that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
06:10It ain't broke at the Reds.
06:11They're going to try to fix something and it's not going to go over well.
06:16It's like when you have like somebody has a great restaurant.
06:18You're like, okay, I'm an entrepreneur.
06:20I want to buy this restaurant from the current owner.
06:22And you go, look, I want to buy this, but I still want you to run this.
06:24I don't want to change a single thing.
06:26I'll pay you more money, but I think this investment is great as opposed to I'm going
06:30to buy this great restaurant, change the chef and thank you for your service.
06:33Whoever just owned it here, I'm getting a new manager in here.
06:35And like, man, this just doesn't taste the same.
06:37It just doesn't work.
06:37That's the same thing.
06:38Like red zone is really good.
06:39The way it is by the entity, don't change a single thing about it.
06:44Other than you are listed as the ownership group.
06:46And I think everybody probably will be happy with that.
06:49And it's Roger Goodell also saying that, Hey, we don't compete with major league baseball
06:52in the NBA.
06:52We're competing with Google and Apple here.
06:54We understand that the biggest conglomerate is the NFL right now.
06:57Let's keep it the same.
06:58We don't want a lot of change in the NFL.
07:00It's fine the way it is.
07:01And that also includes the red zone at this point.
07:04Now, a lot more hot topics coming up.
07:06You know, coaches getting to scrums on the field, amazing stuff happening.
07:09It's what we do right here on the Sports Grid Network, keeping you involved on all the
07:14latest topics.
07:14Joe and Erie, Donnie Wrightside.
07:15We'll be back right after this short break for more action.
07:19Right back at it, people.
07:20It's the early line, bright and early on a Thursday here.
07:22We got NFL action tonight, a triple header on the card tonight.
07:26Huge line movements will handicap those games, each and every one of them.
07:29But you know what we like at a training camp?
07:31Like, have you ever played football in your life?
07:33I don't care if it's peewee football.
07:35I don't care if it's middle school football, high school football, college, or professional
07:39ranks here.
07:40Nobody likes to go to camp.
07:42Nobody likes to be sore.
07:43Nobody likes to be tired.
07:44Nobody likes to be 90 degree temperatures.
07:46And you're hitting the same guy every single play.
07:49Fights end up breaking out.
07:50Typically, the scrums happen.
07:52The teams separate themselves.
07:53But every once in a while, you need outside reinforcements.
07:57And there's a tweet yesterday from Zach Cox that says,
07:59Mike Vrabel is bleeding from his face after diving into a pile to try to prevent a fight.
08:04Can't say I've ever seen that before.
08:06The man, you cannot take the football out of this football coach.
08:11Getting down and dirty with the boys.
08:13The boys got to like that, too, right?
08:15Well, like I said, your teams always take on the persona of their head coach, right?
08:21And Vrabel has always been known as a player's coach.
08:26This is a guy that, as a player and a head coach, if you're a player looking at him,
08:31this is a guy that's been in the trenches.
08:33This is a guy that's got more rings than you could ever possibly hope to have on a hand here.
08:39He has been there.
08:40He has done that, and he carries himself like a player still.
08:45He has always been involved in practices and drills and going toe-to-toe with guys.
08:50And football players, they love that mentality.
08:54There is no—the Patriots are not going to be pushed around.
08:57They may not win as many games as you want them to.
09:00But my goodness, every game, win or lose, is going to be a fight when it comes to the Patriots and Vrabel.
09:07So, there's always fights in camp.
09:09And by the way, I always like to go back to the mid-1990s in high school.
09:12I was a senior.
09:13We had a two-platoon football team, which basically meant offense stays on one side, defense stays on one side.
09:18And you're practicing against each other day in and day out.
09:21And they're your friends, too.
09:22But still, it's hot, it's humid.
09:23It's angriness out there.
09:25And we were just doing run drills.
09:26And I'm a wide receiver.
09:27So, my job was to go sort of like tie up the linebacker, maybe scrape off to get to a free safety.
09:33But one of my really good friends was a linebacker.
09:35I'm telling you, Joe, I held that kid every single play.
09:38Because there's no refs in practice.
09:40Of course.
09:40Every play until he basically was swinging on me.
09:43And when he was doing that, I sort of stepped away out.
09:45The offensive line handled their business there.
09:47And I walked back to the huddle with a big smile on my face.
09:49So, just getting under people's skin is the way you do it in camp.
09:53It's always nice to see the coach say,
09:54Hey, you know what?
09:55You don't want to break it up?
09:56I'll break it up right now.
09:57There's your boy DRS holding on every play when there's no referees or wide receiver.
10:01That's the way you get it done here.
10:02But we talk about really good head coaches.
10:04That doesn't always mean coach of the year.
10:06It feels like when you're a coach of the year, Joe,
10:08you can't have too good a football team.
10:10You can't have too bad of a football team.
10:12You can't have high expectations.
10:14You got to overachieve a little bit to get that.
10:16Because otherwise, we would just say,
10:17Okay, Andy Reid's the best coach every single year.
10:19You know, Mike Tomlin's a great coach every single year.
10:21Nick Sirianni's winning Super Bowls.
10:22He's horrible.
10:23You get the point in this, right?
10:24So we look at the props market here.
10:26It's Ben Johnson at plus 650 price in the lead right now.
10:29But we're talking about Mike Vrabel.
10:30He's plus 750.
10:32Liam Cohen at 10 to 1.
10:33Aaron Glenn at 13 to 1.
10:34Pete Carroll 14 to 1.
10:36We say, what are we talking about here?
10:37None of those teams are going to win a Super Bowl,
10:40but yet we have the coaches of the year.
10:41Why?
10:42Because I just explained it to you.
10:43The best coach doesn't win coach of the year.
10:45Make it make sense.
10:46It doesn't.
10:47The coach of the year is from a team with not a lot of expectations,
10:51but overachieves.
10:52Ben Johnson in the lead, Joe.
10:53Do you agree with that?
10:55Well, this is funny, Donnie.
10:57It's a trivia question for everyone watching.
10:59Who was the coach of the year last year?
11:01Exactly.
11:02I can tell you this right now here.
11:04The first five names on that list are all first-year head coaches with those teams.
11:09So, what are the expectations?
11:12So, you're telling me Aaron Glenn, for instance, the Jets head coach.
11:16So, if they win, and what's their win total, Donnie?
11:18We lay a five and a half.
11:20So, if they win eight games, nine games at 13 to 1, I got a pretty good shot of Aaron.
11:25Okay.
11:25So, maybe he doesn't make the playoffs.
11:27He still finishes second to Buffalo.
11:28But he won, you know, three or four more games than he was supposed to.
11:32Is that, like, what is the barometer here for coach of the year?
11:37Because I can't even remember who won it last year, Donnie, if we're being honest.
11:41Like, look at the MVP market, right?
11:44The best football players.
11:45We're not saying, oh, Patrick Mahomes gets lucky.
11:47He's got Andy Reid as a coach.
11:48He's got pretty good wide receivers.
11:49He's got a good running back.
11:50He's got Travis Kelsey at tight end.
11:51Like, we don't look at it that way.
11:52Or Lamar Jackson, ah, he's too good.
11:55Let's move him down.
11:55Like, look at the awards market and how it sets up.
11:58Not the top, Joe.
11:59The bottom.
12:00John Harbaugh, 75 to 1.
12:02They're supposed to win the Super Bowl this year based on the odds market.
12:05You know who's next at 75 to 1?
12:07It's Nick Sirianni.
12:08He's won the two Super Bowls and won a Super Bowl.
12:10Like, he's the second worst coach in the NFL.
12:12How about Andy Reid, 75 to 1.
12:15Maybe one of the best coaches in the history of the sport.
12:17But he's third to the bottom for the awards market for being NFL Coach of the Year.
12:23It's an unbelievable, like, honestly, I think it should go away.
12:26But that just goes to show you, Ben Johnson is the favorite.
12:29John Harbaugh, Nick Sirianni, Andy Reid have no shot to be Coach of the Year this year.
12:34It's awesome stuff here.
12:35It's the way we get down in the early line.
12:37A lot of NFL talk coming your way over this next hour here.
12:40It's just the way we do it.
12:41It feels like it's a football Friday, even though it's a Thursday.
12:43But we've got three big games across the NFL landscape.
12:45It's Joe Ranieri and it's Donnie Wrightside right here on the Sports Grid Network.
12:48But let me ask you this, Joe, here.
12:50We've got some interesting topics to talk about because we're going to get into some things on quarterbacks that are starting,
12:55teams that normally don't play their guys in the preseason, playing their guys in the preseason,
12:59line swings that have been absolutely massive, who's getting that CLV, depending on which way they're going.
13:05So we've got some good topics.
13:06Usually the preseason is really boring, Joe.
13:09Tonight's preseason, it ain't boring at all.
13:13No, it's not.
13:14We have an opportunity to check out some quarterbacks, some new head coaches, where we're going to see,
13:23apparently, Donnie, we're going to see a few more starters for a few more plays than we thought we may,
13:29or at least that we have in years past.
13:32But once they shaved off that final preseason game, now you're running out of opportunities to be able to get your reps in.
13:41So maybe this is a good thing moving forward.
13:45Injuries are injuries.
13:46They're going to happen whether you're playing, practicing, or not.
13:48So I think it's more important for some of these teams tonight to make sure that they get some reps in for some of these starters.
13:57Ah, feeds right into us.
13:58How about a really good fade the public poll?
14:00Ah, fading the public.
14:10It's what we like to do.
14:11Check in with the public each and every time here at the top of the hour.
14:13We want to ask the public where they're going on a question that we have for them.
14:17At SportsGrid on X.
14:19The question we asked today in the poll, Joe, who will start more games for the Colts this season?
14:23There's two options listed.
14:24It's Anthony Richardson and it's Daniel Jones.
14:27Looking at the early topics, Daniel Jones leads the way with about 55% of the early vote.
14:33At this point right now, we're already writing off Anthony Richardson, Joe.
14:38Well, how can you not?
14:40I mean, let's be realistic here.
14:42It's he's going to get an opportunity to beat a starter simply because they invested the draft pick in him that high where they have to win or lose.
14:53They're going to have to give him an opportunity to succeed in some way.
14:57I just don't think he will.
14:59And if not, you got yourself a veteran behind him who has been there, done that.
15:04Nothing more than a glorified backup anyway.
15:07But the fact that that is almost a 50-50 answer there, that tells you everything about the state of the quarterback position for the Indianapolis Colts.
15:15It's actually a great question because there's so many layers to this, right?
15:19It's like, who will start more games for the Colts this season?
15:22I want to let the believe, and I voted for Anthony Richardson because I think the way the Colts want to run their organization is,
15:26yeah, we drafted the guy high, and he's finally going to be a franchise guy, and away we go.
15:30We're going to give him every opportunity that we can.
15:32But also at the same time, Joe, lay this out for me.
15:35Wow, Anthony Richardson looks good for the first two games.
15:37Oh, no, shoulder contusion game number three.
15:39He's out to week number seven, and what's the point of putting him back out there?
15:42And Daniel Jones just by default starts more games.
15:45So I do think the public might be right by saying, look, even though we think it should be Anthony Richardson,
15:49but he hasn't shown any propensity to play well and stay healthy at the same time.
15:54And Daniel Jones has played average at times and has been healthy at times.
16:00Do you see where I'm going with this?
16:02Yeah, yeah.
16:03That's the problem, right?
16:05And that's why this poll is 50-50 here is that both guys have shown maybe a propensity to be a little injury prone at times.
16:14And the fact that we have no clear number one at this point, I think, tells you everything you need to know.
16:21Somebody's going to have to be the starting quarterback.
16:23But how many games are both of these guys going to start this year, Donnie?
16:28If you had to take a guess, is it going to be split down the middle?
16:32Injuries aside, I mean, Anthony Richardson may play the first three or four games, get hurt, and then we got to deal with who?
16:40We got to deal with Danny Dimes until he gets hurt, and then we got to hope we can sign somebody off the scrap heap.
16:45That's the direction Indy is heading, unfortunately.
16:48I think Riley Leonard also broke his hand, so I don't even know how long he's going to be out for this point.
16:52So it is Anthony Richardson and Daniel Jones.
16:54But also understand this.
16:55Like, talking to Daniel Jones' agent, they're probably like, hey, we got a great backup spot for you.
17:00Here's what we need you to do.
17:01We know you're not going to upset the apple cart in our quarterback room.
17:03We want you to push Anthony Richardson to try to make him the best player.
17:06And it turns out if you're the better quarterback, then you'll play.
17:09Hint, hint, we want Anthony Richardson to be that quarterback.
17:12So it would be funny if, like, Daniel Jones was brought in to, like, sort of push Anthony Richardson and just took his job.
17:17We're not talking about, like, Kirk Cousins where he said, okay, line up the reels here.
17:20Wow, he threw for a lot of yards that year.
17:22Boy, he threw for a lot of touchdowns that year.
17:23You won a lot of football games in the NFL.
17:25It's Daniel Jones.
17:26Like, can you imagine Anthony Richardson in two years being out of the NFL and like, hey, man, what happened in the NFL run?
17:32Yeah, man, I just couldn't beat out Anthony or Daniel Jones.
17:36It was just a tough brawl here.
17:37I lost out and I'm out of the NFL.
17:39That can't beat you.
17:40You can't draft this guy in the top five and Daniel Jones come along and beat him out.
17:44You can't have that.
17:45No, no, not with the – Shane Steichen, I think, is a great offensive coordinator.
17:52You know that.
17:53Head coach, I still think he might be limited in say with that front office right now.
17:59So, they're going to make sure that he gets every opportunity here, whether it's good for the team or not.
18:05Now, my hope is that they're going to not ask him to do so much and that let the running game and this defense –
18:13don't forget Lou Anaroma's new defensive coordinator there.
18:17They've kind of upgraded that side of the ball there through the draft and free agency.
18:21So, let's hope that the defense in that division holds up and they don't need Anthony Richardson to throw the ball, you know, 30, 40 times in a game.
18:31Let's have this one out, too, because we just saw a graphic pop up on the screen.
18:35Week one starting odds for quarterbacks.
18:37Throughout the summer, Joe, this was a dead heat.
18:39It's no longer a dead heat.
18:40It's Anthony Richardson minus 350.
18:42If I'm betting on this or I'm the odds maker, I actually think this is correct.
18:46I don't think there's any way, shape, or form if both of these guys are healthy, week one, Anthony Richardson doesn't start.
18:51So, let me ask you this.
18:52If we are going down the stretch, is it a true quarterback competition?
18:56Because unless Anthony Richardson is A, injured, or B, throws like three interceptions every single preseason game,
19:02I would be shocked if he's not the starter in week number one, even, Joe, if he's not the better quarterback in camp right now.
19:10Yeah, I agree, Donnie.
19:12I think he's going to be there regardless.
19:16But the fact that they're not mentioning it now and they're still making it seem as if, you know, we saw the Giants, right?
19:23We saw Dable be like, listen, Dart is not playing.
19:27He's not our starting quarterback.
19:28It's great.
19:28Like, it's been established.
19:29And I think there's something to be said for a locker room who knows who their leader is going to be.
19:34Who's the guy under center?
19:35The sooner you can get to that determination, I think the better off it's going to be for everybody.
19:41But you've got to wonder, does Steichen really believe that's his starting quarterback?
19:45Does he buy it?
19:47I'm telling you right now.
19:48It's a shit like Shane Steichen I do think is a very good offensive coordinator.
19:51But sometimes you just go to a place in a position where you just can't get it right.
19:55And that's always going to be troublesome.
19:56And I don't think they're going to get it right either way.
19:58Like, Daniel Jones isn't leading you to the playoffs.
20:01And quite frankly, I don't think Anthony Richardson is.
20:03So it seems like, hey, Shane Steichen, play Anthony Richardson.
20:06He's going to stink.
20:07You'll end up getting yourself fired.
20:09But we'll try to go for Arch Manning or whoever's in the draft next year if they come out at this point.
20:13So this is a perfect time now to transition over to the game tonight because the Indianapolis Colts are taking on the Baltimore Ravens.
20:19Joe, this line opened up at minus one and a half as a favorite towards the Colts.
20:23We're now seeing at most outlets right now a six and a five and a half at certain places as well.
20:28A total in this game which opened up at 34 and a half and it now sits at 36 and a half.
20:32Why?
20:33The expectation is Anthony Richardson is going to play a quarter and a half with Daniel Jones playing half of a quarter.
20:40So essentially, we're looking at the first half, two guys battling in a quarterback competition.
20:45Now, first I'll ask you, and we'll get after the break here and we'll double down on it.
20:49Do you agree with this line movement?
20:50Because the Ravens, they're known to be butt kickers in the preseason to be nice.
20:56Look at the first half line, Donnie, and I don't tell you everything you need to know.
21:00The Colts have been steamed to over a field goal favorite, three and a half.
21:05So what the books are telling you is that expect more starters, more rotations for the Colts early, and then good luck trying to figure it out late.
21:14More to talk about next, an intriguing game right here on the early line.
21:19We got football Armageddon right now in preseason action, something we don't see all that much, Joe.
21:25And as I watch right now, those one and a half here at the opening number, I now just saw a six and a half crack across DraftKings right now as a favorite towards the Indianapolis Colts.
21:34Now, typically in the preseason, you might say, yeah, Don, of course, like one team has a quarterback battle, which means if you play both of those starters, you have to start them on equal footing, right?
21:42Now, you know, most of the starters are going to play, obviously, with the starting quarterback in the game.
21:46That's Anthony Richardson.
21:47But if Daniel Jones comes in, you can't say, OK, four stringers, guys that won't be here next week, get out there and play with Daniel Jones.
21:53We'll measure up the same.
21:54You have to have some modicum of success for both of these guys and call it legitimate game plan so you can equally evaluate.
22:00Now, understand this, too.
22:01NFL coaches will tell you, Joe Ranieri, they don't put much stock in the preseason games.
22:05You win this in the scrimmages and you win this in daily practices here, not in the game itself, but barring.
22:10It'd be great if you threw three touchdown passes.
22:12It would be terrible if you threw three interceptions.
22:14But here's the issue I have, like, again, with the odds makers.
22:17Baltimore doesn't lose preseason games.
22:20Baltimore usually wins those games.
22:22Baltimore is usually favored in those games.
22:24Baltimore is now getting close to seven.
22:26So my spidey senses are telling me, just on the line alone, you should probably be taking Indy.
22:33But there's that pride in that locker room that you're right.
22:36Once that first half is done and the rest of the guys are out there and the starters aren't in anymore for the Colts, particularly the starting quarterbacks,
22:43there's no saying that Baltimore can't cover this number or win this game outright, right?
22:48Well, you got to look.
22:49We're not going to see Lamar, right?
22:50I think is that fair to say?
22:52If we're going to see him, it's for one snap, one series, and that's it.
22:57So that means we got, what, Cooper Rush and Devin Leary as the backups there for the Baltimore Ravens.
23:04So judging from the line movement here, we believe this true quarterback battle between Anthony Richards and Daniel Jones is probably both of those guys
23:15who have experience, obviously, as NFL quarterbacks, both of those guys are going to be battling.
23:22So I think this line movement is telling you they expect the Colts, especially the quarterback spot, to be much more intense here
23:30and trying to get, you know, show off what they have as opposed to, you know, Leary or whatever Baltimore is going to throw out there in this spot here,
23:41which would be Cooper Rush, who, again, we're talking about a backup battle here.
23:46So if I would do it, I'd bet it early.
23:48I would bet the Colts early over a field goal, by the way.
23:53So I think that's telling you everything you need to know.
23:55Three and a half points the Colts are laying on the road, no less, as a road favorite.
24:01If you're going to give me the half a point, there's probably a reason in the preseason that it's been steamed up to this.
24:06So, yeah, I like the Colts early in this one.
24:11Yeah, I want to see where this goes and that line goes, right?
24:13Because now seeing six and a half crack through, it would be crazy if we saw a seven, like the Baltimore Ravens getting a seven.
24:18It would be one of those, Joe, where the game finishes, you're either saying this, of course Indy was going to win.
24:23Did you see that line against the Baltimore Ravens?
24:25Or, of course, Baltimore is going to cover the seven.
24:28That's what they always do.
24:29So it's almost like that line of demarcation.
24:31It's like, we'll know it at the end of the game.
24:32Like, oh, that was the easiest pick ever.
24:34Either way it goes at this point.
24:36And I said the Philadelphia, because we have even more intrigue as well.
24:39I just told you a line that opened up as a one and a half point favorite for the Colts.
24:42It's now turning into six and a half as a favorite for the Colts as the road team.
24:46The Cincinnati Bengals head to Philadelphia tonight.
24:48Did you know, Joe Renier, the opening lines, minus two and a half as a favorite towards the Philadelphia Eagles.
24:53Across the board right now, five and a half as high as six and a half now, not as a favorite towards the Philadelphia Eagles.
25:00It's the Cincinnati Bengals.
25:01Why?
25:02Because now we're taking a look at Zach Dale, the head coach, telling us,
25:05we've gotten out to slow starts over the past couple of years.
25:07That needs to change.
25:08That doesn't mean Joe Burrow plays all four quarters in the first three preseason games before he takes flight in September.
25:14It just means I'm going to give him a series two or three to see how we get going.
25:17But that's a massive line move against the Philadelphia Eagles.
25:20Are you buying the Bengals?
25:22And also, do you agree that Joe Burrow should be playing at least a few series in preseason game number one?
25:27So, again, we've got back-to-back road teams that have been steamed up beyond recognition, almost a touchdown here.
25:37So, when you look at who's going to play for Cincinnati, all right, Burrow's going to play a couple of snaps.
25:42Great.
25:42Then you got Jake Browning, who was the backup, right, a year ago.
25:45You got Peyton Thorne.
25:47You got Desmond Ritter for the Cincinnati Bengals.
25:50Philadelphia, we know Jalen Hurts likely not to see a whole lot of action.
25:55So, Tanner McGee, Dorian Thompson, Robinson, Kyle McCord.
26:00From an experience standpoint, it certainly feels like Cincinnati's going to have the edge.
26:06However long Burrow plays, once you get past that, you're still talking about guys with snap experience,
26:12and especially Jake Brown being the backup already.
26:15I see why the money is coming in on Cincinnati, but in preseason, when you see that much line movement to a road team,
26:23there's often a reason for it.
26:25That's a good point you bring up, too, because we understand in the preseason,
26:28it's not really about game planning all that much.
26:30Now, you have a couple game plan series because Joe Burrow's not going to go out there and be like,
26:33hey, let's just make stuff up on the fly.
26:35That's how bad things happen.
26:36Same thing with the Indianapolis Colts.
26:38They're not saying, hey, we've got a quarterback battle, no game plan in here.
26:40They're going to have set plays that they want to go over and certainly execute.
26:43But your point on the Philadelphia Eagles, you're not seeing Jalen Hurts tonight.
26:46The one guy that could make a big difference is Tanner McKee.
26:49He's not supposed to play tonight, Joe, which means that first preseason game is usually now worse than the third preseason game.
26:55If you get a lot of Kyle McCord, those are usually your worst case scenarios where a kid fresh out of college,
27:02thrust into starting for an NFL team in preseason game number one,
27:06those usually don't work out all that well unless you're a first-round draft pick,
27:09and typically they don't even start in week number one anyway at this point.
27:12So if you are just getting a lot of Kyle McCord and not like a Tanner McKee,
27:16that could be a big difference.
27:17Doreen Thompson-Robinson probably going to get a look, but more likely you're going to get at least a half out of McCord
27:22going up against a much more vulnerable team in the Eagles going up against the Cincinnati Bengals.
27:27So I like where you're going with this, Erie.
27:29You're just matching quarterbacks.
27:30The advantage tonight, quarterback, it's with the Bengals.
27:33Yep, absolutely.
27:35It's with the Bengals.
27:35And you've already heard the coach tell you there is a sense of urgency this preseason where we have taken and we gave the record yesterday.
27:45I mean, Zach Taylor is just horrific over the last couple of seasons in the preseason, treated it like it didn't matter.
27:52This year it sounds like we're not going to keep doing the same thing.
27:55We're going to mix it up and maybe that'll change their fortunes early on in the season.
28:00Instead of starting 0-4 or 1-3, maybe they can start 3-1 and have a totally different outlook.
28:06Exactly.
28:07Eagles are playing tonight.
28:08You know, I love the Eagles.
28:09I'll be watching, but how long for Elijah Cooks at wideout, Anais Smith, Terrace Marshall, Darius Cooper, Tyler Morin, Giles Jackson.
28:19Like guys I've never even heard of are going to get played tonight.
28:21This is your chance to take that picture on the field, grab a football, sign it yourself, and say, you know what, kids?
28:26I played in an NFL game.
28:28Take a look at this picture.
28:30Show out tonight.
28:30Keep your job a few more days longer.
28:32But sooner than later, those cuts certainly are coming here.
28:35The Pete Carroll Bowl?
28:37What?
28:37Yeah, we're talking about that next right here on the early line.
28:40All right.
28:41Talking some NFL action.
28:42It feels good here.
28:43Week number one of the preseason.
28:44I guess like we have week zero, Joe, in college football, which comes up August 23rd.
28:48I guess week zero was last week in the preseason.
28:51We had the Hall of Fame game, just that extra fourth game for certain teams that get it.
28:54That was the Detroit Lions and the Los Angeles Chargers.
28:57If you ask me, the Chargers are probably saying, you know what, we feel good about that game.
29:01The Lions are like, all right, this is the Super Bowl this week.
29:03Preseason game number two for us.
29:04But again, most teams are only in preseason game number one.
29:07How about Vegas?
29:08And how about Seattle?
29:09How about Seattle saying, all right, well, Pete Carroll's not our coach anymore.
29:12But now Pete Carroll's now the coach in Las Vegas.
29:14And also, a quarterback change here, right?
29:17Geno Smith was in Seattle.
29:19He's no longer in Seattle.
29:19He's the quarterback now for the Las Vegas Raiders at this point.
29:24If we line this one up, also starting as a favorite at minus one and a half for the Seattle Seahawks at home.
29:29It's no longer the case.
29:30We got four and a halves across the board as a favorite towards the Vegas Raiders, Joe Ranieri.
29:35Big line movement here.
29:36Again, another road team, Donnie, that has gotten a whole lot of money.
29:43And when you take a look at the quarterback matchups for this one, right?
29:47We know Sam Donald, the new man in Seattle.
29:51Jalen Milrow is behind him, former Alabama quarterback there.
29:55And then you got Drew Locke.
29:56And on the other side, you got Aiden O'Connell backing up Geno Smith.
30:01You got a rookie in Cam Miller out of North Dakota State.
30:04He is also there.
30:06What you have here is two offenses that are in transition here.
30:11New quarterbacks, new coaches, new OCs.
30:14Yeah, this could be one of the games that might just be like watching paint dry here.
30:21We know Pete Carroll loves to win preseason games.
30:24He had a pretty good record when he was in Seattle.
30:27But neither of these offenses, to me, are well-oiled machines yet.
30:33This could just be one of those games where maybe it's more concentration on the defenses
30:39being ahead of the offenses.
30:41And there could be fewer points in this one.
30:44By the way, we start to get more and more information, different ways to bet prop bets
30:48here in the preseason.
30:49It used to be, Joe, right?
30:50It was like, you have the side, the total, and the book's like, we want nothing to do
30:54with the rest of this game.
30:55You weren't even getting like first quarters, first halfs, or anything like that.
30:58But now I see you can actually bet Raiders team total touchdown passes.
31:02Same thing here with the Las Vegas Raiders.
31:04But also understand this.
31:06Like, this isn't just this game.
31:07The other two games here tonight also have those opportunities.
31:10But now I'm seeing in this player props here, Geno Smith to throw a touchdown pass
31:14on his first offensive drive, plus 410.
31:17Ashton Jainty to score a touchdown on his first offensive drive, plus 410.
31:21So for let them believe that Geno Smith is going to play, and I gave you a free bet.
31:26Let's just say they go down and score a touchdown on that first drive.
31:29Doesn't it feel to you if they get inside the five, they just want to get at the Jainty?
31:33Or Brock Bowers, 10 to 1 price to score a touchdown on the first drive?
31:36I would find it hard to believe that Seattle, defensively, is going to lay down and let their
31:46former quarterback light him up if he's out there in the first series.
31:51I doubt that very much.
31:53Not to mention that you're talking about a big time in McDonald, a big time defensive
31:57guy there in Seattle.
31:59He is not going to watch Geno Smith making them look bad.
32:03So, yeah, I would bet against any sort of success for Geno Smith early in this one.
32:09And you're looking at a high total, Joe, by the way, of 37 and a half in this game.
32:14We usually see these games usually measured in the lower 30s.
32:16So maybe there is a little bit of animosity between these two franchises and certainly
32:20just being competitive, saying, ah, we got Geno.
32:23He's better than what you have now in Sam Darnold.
32:25And one side saying like, well, you're no longer our head coach, so I'm going to show you
32:28why you're no longer our head coach.
32:29We're not supposed to get these storylines in the preseason at all.
32:32But there's a reason why sometimes I feel like these games get set up by the NFL.
32:35Like, ah, who do you want to play first?
32:37Hey, play line of Vegas over there going against Seattle.
32:40We'll just max them up here.
32:41And granted, they're West Coast teams and sort of close to each other few as opposed
32:44to the Seattle Seahawks going down to take on the Miami Dolphins.
32:49But also at the same time, it should be a fun game as it plays out.
32:52If I told you all three games tonight, Joe, from an entertaining perspective for you,
32:57which game would you watch?
32:58Well, I think you got to look at Cincinnati because it's going to be different.
33:04We're actually going to get to see Burrow in this new look offense and see what they've
33:08got.
33:09I don't think this game matters a whole lot to Philadelphia at this point.
33:14But it's going to be interesting to see how long does the starters and Joe Burrow and company,
33:19how many series do they play against Philadelphia?
33:22I think that's going to be interesting.
33:23Yeah, take a look at those first, you know, last week's game, 32, 33 and a half for the
33:28least totals for tonight.
33:29And they all opened up lower than what they currently sit at now.
33:32The Ravens game, 34 and a half now sits at 36 and a half.
33:35You take a look at the Philadelphia Eagles game.
33:37That was 35 and a half now, 37 and a half.
33:39And then you take a look at that Vegas Seattle game was 35 and a half now sitting at 37s
33:44across the betting landscape right now.
33:46Fun night in NFL action, three preseason games and actually some intrigue, which is great
33:51to see really good, really, really good slate of games tonight in the NFL.
33:55We're certainly going to get caught up with that.
33:56It's Donnie right side and it's Joe Renier, but also we'd like to welcome in Cam Stewart
33:59here, Sports Grid's finest right here.
34:01Love the fact he joins us this morning.
34:03We've got a lot to talk about and Cam, we're happy to see you.
34:06Happy to see you and my boy, Joe, the mayor of Miami.
34:09Donnie, always a pleasure.
34:10We have football tonight.
34:12Every day is football day.
34:13We got three exhibition preseason games in the NFL.
34:16We got a Canadian Football League tilt between Babano's Hamilton Tiger Cats and the BC Lions
34:21on SGA night, guys.
34:22They're bringing in Shea Gilgis Alexander, giving him the key to the city.
34:26A big night in the hammer.
34:28These guys like to party to begin with, Donnie.
34:30I think the parade starts at noon.
34:32They're already drunk.
34:33A couple hours anyway.
34:35They'll be fully lit.
34:36Maybe they'll finish the Michelob Lights night on SGA night.
34:39We'll certainly have to find out a little bit later if that takes place.
34:41But Cam, we got some big doings here in preseason NFL action.
34:44We usually don't get intrigued in week number one.
34:47We're hearing coaches talk to us about players playing that normally don't play in the preseason.
34:51Before we get to the individual games, Cam, what do you take out of coaches speak before
34:56heading into preseason action?
34:58Nothing, Donnie.
34:59Honestly, I wish I didn't even read the reports.
35:02It's all lies.
35:03These guys, oh, I'm not playing anybody.
35:05He'll play three series, maybe one.
35:07Anyway, all this is is a smokescreen.
35:09It's kind of like the NFL draft.
35:10Why would you believe anything these guys are saying when they're trying to get leverage?
35:13But I guess in the Indianapolis Colts situation, you have two starting quarterbacks, I put
35:19that in air quotes, in their game against the Baltimore Ravens, a team that is historically
35:23dominated, but not recently, guys.
35:25You know, the last couple of years, what are they, 0-6 these guys in the preseason?
35:28So Harbaugh was the man.
35:30But once he got to that record, it doesn't seem like things are going as well for them.
35:34They're big picture.
35:35There's certain teams with a big picture.
35:36Baltimore, they're thinking big picture.
35:38The Philadelphia Eagles thinking that way.
35:40But the Raiders-Seahawks game, very intriguing.
35:42A lot of very talented rookies on both sides, guys.
35:44And, you know, I'm a big Seahawks fan.
35:46I've been reading the reports.
35:47Horton, the receiver out of Colorado State, is doing special things right now.
35:50And I'll tell you, Pete Carroll, he would love to go into Seattle and beat his old team.
35:54I know it's the preseason, but new era, first game.
35:57He's a rah-rah guy.
35:58But you could have got the Raiders at one and a half.
36:00Do you really want to lay four and a half in a preseason game on the road?
36:03Crazy stuff, guys.
36:04We've never seen numbers like this.
36:06Six and a half for the Colts.
36:07Five and a half for the Bengals.
36:09And four and a half for the Raiders.
36:10Usually these games are closer to pick.
36:12Yeah.
36:13And that's what they opened up, Cam.
36:15But we've got all road teams getting nothing but money all week long and steaming them up to almost key numbers.
36:22I mean, we're talking almost a touchdown here across the board.
36:25And it appears that all of these road teams have maybe taken it a little bit more seriously
36:31than maybe what the home teams are going to be doing here tonight in these games.
36:35Good call, Joe.
36:36And the thing is, I look at Indianapolis in the way, I know you look at quarterback depth,
36:40but Daniel Jones, despite being not a great starter, he's played many games in the league.
36:44And you have Anthony Richardson.
36:46So not just one quarterback, they got two.
36:48So you got to think about this.
36:49And these guys want to put their foot forward.
36:51So I think in six and a half, so many damn points to lay.
36:54Donnie, Joe, I don't know about Joe Burrow.
36:56They're talking three series, maybe one or two.
36:58I don't know if they're going to get there.
36:59Do I want to lay five and a half points with the Bengals?
37:01But then their big thing is, oh, we always get out of the gate slow.
37:04We're the Cincinnati Bengals.
37:05Can't afford to do it now in the preseason.
37:07Bottom line is this.
37:08Don't get Joe Burrow hurt or your season's already dead.
37:10You have one of the worst offensive lines and defense in the National Football League.
37:14So I wouldn't be screwing around with this one.
37:16And guys, I'm going to tell you, I'm taking Seattle.
37:18Earlier, I like the Raiders, but I can't lay four and a half points with a road team in that situation.
37:23I get it.
37:24It's going to be very vanilla.
37:25You're going to see maybe, you know, a lot of Jalen Milrow in this spot.
37:28Hopefully he can do well.
37:29We know he can beat you with his legs, a little bit of Radek with the arm.
37:32That's why he slipped in the draft.
37:34But I got to tell you guys, that's a lot of points to be laying in these games.
37:37I don't know how you and Donnie, how are you and Joe attacking these games?
37:40Because right now, the first thing you do, we had the Chargers in the first game.
37:43I'm looking at dogs going, can I make a case for these dogs?
37:45And I think I can.
37:47The one favorite, I think Indianapolis might actually cover the number.
37:50It's a huge number.
37:51But I think because of the two starting quarterbacks, maybe they get like a 14-point lead in this game and hold on.
37:55But the back door is always open with these big numbers.
37:58It's a very good point you make, Cam, because usually in the preseason, we don't see these bigger numbers.
38:02Like, wow, a 3.5, that's amazing you got that high.
38:04Like, the preseason opener, which was the Hall of Fame game last Thursday night, was a 1.5, 2-point line.
38:09So it's like, all right, if I take the underdog, they probably have to win it outright.
38:12That's not the case here.
38:14You might be getting a touchdown in two of these games, Cam.
38:16You look at that Indianapolis and Baltimore game.
38:19It's not up to 6.5.
38:20There's a chance we crack 7.
38:21Same thing with the Cincinnati Bengals and the Philadelphia Eagles.
38:23And also, we don't know the game script.
38:25And when we talk about these guys are going to get a first half, this quarterback's going to get three series, which is what they're talking about, Joe Burrow.
38:31What happens if Burrow goes out on that first drive, Cam?
38:33Five plays, 52 yards, and a field goal.
38:36He's not coming back out for series number two.
38:38So now you're laying six and a half points.
38:40You got three out of Burrow, which was your big gun.
38:43And they're just like, they could just play and even up the rest of the way here, Cam.
38:46Great point.
38:47Say they don't even score points.
38:48You're getting an inflated line with the Eagles.
38:50Say he goes down the field and they punt.
38:52It's three and out.
38:53Like, it just doesn't work out.
38:54Anything can happen, right?
38:56So I'm with you.
38:56You're getting incredible line value with the Philadelphia Eagles.
38:59I get it.
39:00You know, the Super Bowl champs.
39:01They took Kansas City out to the woodshed.
39:03But it's a preseason game.
39:05We don't know.
39:05Maybe Tanner McKee goes out there and does well.
39:08That's the whole thing.
39:09Betting these games is very, very difficult.
39:11You look for an edge.
39:12And the only thing I look for with Indianapolis is their quarterback depth and guys trying to win jobs.
39:17So they're going to be out a little bit longer.
39:19Maybe they get it done.
39:20But you know what?
39:21I think maybe, guys, would you guys bet all three dogs and hope you go two out of three?
39:25Like, I don't know exactly how to do it.
39:26But for me, the one favorite's Indy.
39:28I'm looking at the Eagles and Seahawks.
39:30Don't, like, love these games.
39:32What do you think about the totals, guys, in any of these games?
39:34Do you see any edges?
39:35Like, the Raiders game is the highest total at 37 and a half.
39:39I know Pete's probably going to want to, you know, take some shots.
39:41One thing Milrow does well, as you guys know, knowing college football as well, he throws a beautiful deep ball.
39:47His other short stuff is not good.
39:49So maybe hitting a couple plays like that, that's a total that I'd maybe look at.
39:53But these are very, very hard games to cap, guys.
39:56Yeah.
39:56How hard was it for the FedEx St. Jude for you to cap, man?
40:01Who did you go with?
40:02Let me guess.
40:02Tell me, is it who I think it is?
40:05Is it Scotty?
40:06No, no.
40:07At plus 280, Joe, you'd have to have me tied up in a basement with a gun and say, bet it.
40:12Lick it, Cameron.
40:13I know, honestly.
40:14I'm like, no, I'm not doing it.
40:15Sir?
40:16Sir?
40:16Are you betting it?
40:17No.
40:17You're betting it.
40:18No, I'm not taking this guy in a tournament that he doesn't need to win under 3-1.
40:21And the way I look at it is, the way the line jumps from him to Xander Shoffley.
40:26So you're telling me, ladies and gentlemen, I can get Xander Shoffley who's in good form
40:30right now at 18-1 or I can get Scotty Scheffler.
40:33I get it.
40:33Scotty Scheffler could win.
40:35But this is also, he's thinking about Eastlake.
40:37That's the big picture.
40:38The top 30 outside of Atlanta.
40:40Just do your thing.
40:41Hell, Rory McIlroy doesn't even show up.
40:43And by the way, I have something to say.
40:45Hey, Mr. PGA, Mr. Liv.
40:47I'm like, how about you just shut the cake hole, go out and show up in a tournament.
40:51You got three damn golf tournaments.
40:52And what?
40:52You're taking a vacation?
40:54Scotty Scheffler showed up.
40:55The rest of these guys showed up.
40:56I'm sorry.
40:57I know everyone loves Rory, but I don't like the way he handled his business here, guys.
41:00That's unacceptable.
41:01And the PGA Tour, this is never going to happen again.
41:03I guarantee you, at knock point, something's going to happen.
41:06Because they look like absolute jumps.
41:08Cam Stewart, bringing the heat here on a Thursday.
41:10Thanks for joining us, Cam.
41:11Love you.
41:12Right here on the Sports Grid Network.
41:13Topics, topics, and more topics.
41:15And sometimes different topics jump in.
41:17We're a live show here.
41:18We like to go on and have some fun and see if some things come up.
41:20We're going to talk a little bit about some action you need to take on the diamond a little
41:23bit later today and also on the gridiron.
41:26But did you see some of the news coming out from an Ian Rappaport tweet this morning, Joe
41:29Ranieri, that says, Arch Manning on his grandson, if he'll declare for the 2026 NFL draft.
41:34He goes, no, he's not going to do that.
41:36He'll be back in Texas.
41:37So let me just ask you this quick question, because I'm sure we'll dilute into this tomorrow
41:41as well.
41:42Is Arch Manning not as good as we thought he is?
41:44And that's why he needs to keep playing college football, because he's not really that good.
41:47He's not ready for the pros.
41:48Make it make sense to me.
41:49Does it make sense?
41:50Listen, his availability for the draft next year, Donnie, is going to be completely contingent
41:56upon what kind of season he has this year.
41:59If he is successful, if Texas is successful, and we're going to learn rather quickly in week
42:05zero, how good this team may be, then there is nothing left for him to come back to the
42:10University of Texas for, unless he falls on his face or gets hurt, then yes, he has the
42:18opportunity to come back and play for another year.
42:20But his availability is all based upon how successful this team is this year.
42:25You remember Matt Leiner, USC quarterback, early 2000s, hot as all can get out here when he was
42:31coming out supposedly as a junior.
42:33And I love college, love the girls, love the party life.
42:36I'm going to take dance class.
42:37I'm going to go back to school.
42:38Yeah, how'd that work out for the rest of your career?
42:40When the iron is hot, you must strike.
42:43Maybe Arch Manning does that.
42:44Maybe he doesn't here.
42:45But you know what?
42:45When the iron's hot, we got to strike too.
42:47Here's bye, bye, bye.
42:48Joe, red hot last week, hot to enter this week, tripped up a little bit last night,
42:58no better chance to get back today.
43:01Is it baseball?
43:01Is it football?
43:02Where are we going tonight?
43:04Oh, well, why not?
43:05Let's go with the NFL preseason here.
43:08Donnie, mix it up a little bit.
43:10I'm going to be looking at the total in the late game with the Raiders and the Seahawks.
43:15And Cam alluded to it that this was one of the highest totals on the board right now
43:21in preseason, which for the most part, we're usually used to low 30s for scores and for
43:27totals.
43:28But I don't get this 37 mark here, given the fact that we don't have a ton of quarterback
43:34depth here with the Raiders.
43:36I mean, you got Aiden O'Connell is behind Geno, but you got the rookie Cam Miller out of North
43:42Dakota State, who is in all likelihood going to get to see a ton of action late in this
43:48game here and explain to me exactly both of these teams, new coaching staff, new offensive
43:55coordinator, new quarterbacks.
43:58I don't see the defenses from what I'm reading and hearing are way ahead of the offenses here.
44:04This is going to be a lot of running with guys like Jalen Milrow, a lot of vanilla play calling,
44:10especially in the second half.
44:13I expect the defenses to be way ahead here.
44:16I like the under here tonight, 37, 37 and a half with the Raiders and the Seahawks.
44:21I am not buying any sort of air raid offense.
44:25It's what got the Seahawks OC fired last year.
44:28They're going to be running a lot in this game here.
44:31And yeah, I think there's some value on the under.
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