00:00Now there is a growing belief that possessing nuclear weapons is unavoidable in order to protect countries, said the mayor of Hiroshima.
00:08He went on, this not only nullifies the lessons learned, but also seriously undermines peace building.
00:14His words as exactly 80 years since an atomic bomb was used in war for the first time.
00:20Thousands bowed their heads in prayer.
00:22The city was levelled on August 6th 1945, a uranium bomb killing about 78,000 people instantly.
00:30A total of well over 200,000 by the end of the year in both Hiroshima and Nagasaki put together.
00:36Well, let's hear first of all from the Japanese Prime Minister talking today.
00:45The divisions within the international community over nuclear disarmament are deepening,
00:50and the current security environment is becoming increasingly severe.
00:54However, precisely because of this we will make every effort to realise a world without nuclear war,
01:00and a world without nuclear weapons.
01:02And let's hear as well from one survivor about what happened in the days and weeks after the explosion.
01:10I eventually came to understand that atomic bomb survivors like me were marginalised and seen as different.
01:19For several months after the bomb, it was thought that the contamination was spreading.
01:24A friend, perhaps out of simple curiosity, carelessly asked me,
01:29But you, are you sure you're not contagious?
01:33For me, that question was a real shock.
01:36It really hurt me.
01:38I would care.
01:39I would care.
01:41Joining me now is fellow in the nuclear policy programme at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
01:46and an associate as well with a project on managing the atom at the Harvard Kennedy School's Belfast Centre.
01:51Nikhil Graetsky.
01:52Thanks very much for joining us on the programme today.
01:54We heard that from the Japanese Prime Minister.
01:56We heard as well the mayor of Hiroshima warning about the new proliferation of nuclear weapons,
02:01warning that it really nullifies the lessons learned.
02:04I mean, we really have failed, haven't we, to draw lessons from history?
02:08Well, it seems so, and this has been a long kind of running trend that's actually really come to fruition
02:17since the Russian invasion of Ukraine with the flippant nuclear threats,
02:21but also on the Korean Peninsula with North Korea that is no longer a member of the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty,
02:27and perhaps most recently with the kind of catastrophe that has evolved from Iran's nuclear programme
02:33and the unfolding 12-day war.
02:36So a lot of the memories of the horrors of nuclear war and the horrors of radiation seem to be lost on quite a bit of the leaders today.
02:46I mean, is that simply because they're thinking ahead rather than thinking back?
02:52Well, for some countries, nuclear weapons are seen as a security guarantor.
02:58This is definitely the view of the great powers or the P5, so the US, Russia, China, the UK, France,
03:05these countries that have long-standing relationships with nuclear weapons of five countries that are recognized as nuclear powers.
03:13But there's also a growing number of regional states, and this includes India and Pakistan and North Korea,
03:19and potentially even Iran that see nuclear weapons as kind of this ultimate safety net.
03:24And so that's where I think this kind of disconnect between the horrors of nuclear war emerged,
03:29but also the view that it also provides security.
03:33I mean, initially it was very much, wasn't it, that big arms race between the US and Russia that took up people's minds and people's anxieties, if you like?
03:43Yes, I mean, the kind of arms race between the US and the Soviet Union and subsequently Russia was what also also led to various arms control initiatives, and we see that eroding today.
03:54And this is being compounded by the fact that China's nuclear arsenal is now growing to a size that is roughly bound to be comparable to the US and Russia by 2035.
04:05But this is based on US intelligence assessments.
04:07So this is creating a worrying atmosphere where there's a growth of nuclear weapons, but also the restrictions on these weapons are eroding.
04:16And this kind of the last remaining remnant of arms control, which is the new START agreement, is set to expire in February 2026.
04:25And so after that, essentially, the US and Russia will be unconstrained when it comes to building up their nuclear arsenals.
04:32As the number of countries involved in having nuclear weapons, if you like, continues to spread,
04:38and perhaps some less advanced countries begin to get nuclear weapons, do you have concerns as well over safety, just over nuclear accidents, potentially?
04:47Yes, I mean, this was a large issue, actually, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, where many of the former Soviet successor states had nuclear infrastructure.
04:58And there was a concern about the safety of these facilities, but also the potential for some of this technology and material to get in the arms of non-state actors.
05:08I mean, operating a nuclear arsenal and the kind of facilities involved in this requires quite a bit of safety.
05:15And so one of the concerns, and I think we're seeing this with Iran, is what to do with material that isn't under these kind of stringent controls,
05:23but also safeguards when it comes to civilian, even civilian nuclear energy as well.
05:28We should talk about France particularly as well. We are France 24, after all.
05:32France is obviously a major player, if you like, and France provided with the task, if that's the right word, or asked to step up more and more,
05:42particularly notably with the ongoing war in Ukraine, to protect other European countries, as it is part of Europe as well.
05:49I mean, France has historically had a very interesting relationship when it comes to NATO and also the United States and its nuclear deterrent.
05:57France has had much more of an independent role. And so some of the recent comments from President Macron have indicated that France does see itself as kind of being this European deterrent,
06:09or seeing potentially that evolve into this. But thus far, we have the UK and France have made several statements and also this recent agreement that might see the future leading towards a more independent role for the Europeans when it comes to their deterrent.
06:26Let's end on a more human question, if that's possible. I mean, knowing human nature, is there any way that this can be reversed now, do you think?
06:36Well, the real trouble and the consequences of the creation of the nuclear age or the atomic weapon is that it takes away a sense of humanity because the consequences are so unfathomable.
06:49However, there have been efforts by civil society and also by certain governments to first stall these kind of more dangerous effects of nuclear weapons.
07:00And so perhaps in the future, there will be kind of a galvanizing force that will come together and try to push for more restrictions on nuclear weapons because of the level of destruction that could be incurred because of that.
07:13Thanks again in order to happen.
07:19Thanks.
Comments