My Friends Are Better Than Yours Featuring Zulu Williams

bigced

Zulu Williams is currently the Senior Creative Director at Devil-Dog Dungarees, a men’s lifestyle brand known for specializing in denim. Prior to that, over a 16-year tenure at Macy’s Merchandising Group, he held several leadership roles from Design Director to Design Vice President and led teams in Men’s and Kids private brands.  Zulu Williams began writing graffiti in High School, under the moniker, Serge One. Born and raised in Harlem, Zulu witnessed the genesis of Hip Hop first-hand, and his love for the culture led him to co-found PNB Nation, an early, influential New York streetwear brand through which he and his partners sought to express social commentary through design, graphics, and fashion.   PNB Nation was listed as part of the 90’s Brands that Defined the Decade, by Complex (Jan 2022). Originally seen on NYC subway trains in the 80s and large-scale murals throughout the 90s and 2000s, Zulu's graffiti art has been documented in books, From the Platform 2, Tattooed Walls and Graffiti New York. His work has also been featured in the motion pictures New Jersey Drive and Juice.  Connect with BIG CED:  https://www.youtube.com/@bigced328?sub_confirmation=1 https://www.instagram.com/bigced328/  https://www.facebook.com/bigced328  https://x.com/bigced  https://bsky.app/profile/bigced328.bsky.social  https://www.linkedin.com/in/bigced/  https://www.twitch.tv/bigced328  https://www.dailymotion.com/bigced  https://open.spotify.com/show/35yBW0BTd4c7HvCnh9dVXz?si=HvZeE8RfTJGH6YjvHBiYzg&nd=1&dlsi=a147a471e6ab4c5c  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-industry-cosign/id1638654676  https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-the-industry-cosign-105171601/  https://theindustrycosign.com/

Transcript

00:00people's people's people it was good big said back at it the industry co-sign once again

00:15my friends are better than yours i have like somebody that i haven't spoken to in about you

00:20know 94 years um for people tuning in for the first time my name is big said the industry co-sign i've

00:32been um a so-called journalist for the past little years and the reason why i started this platform

00:39specifically is because i have friends who do dope things and i know dope might be outdated but i'm

00:46still going to use dope but people who have done things for years continue doing things that i

00:50have always admired and respect and with some people including today's guests i haven't

00:55literally spoken to in years but um the purpose is like i just want you all to realize that these

01:02people are great people so without saying too much and we can get into it i have zula williams

01:11we actually went to high school together i'm not gonna tell you what year because you know we're

01:16we're both in our 20s so but uh i guess we'll start off by zula just give a little intro and then we'll

01:23just get right into it yeah yeah sure um wow well first of all you know thank you for this man i

01:30really appreciate it when you reached out i was like wow that's a blast from the past like whoa um but

01:37yeah and and and you know trying to remember like the last time we saw each other and it's like

01:44all these chunks of time you know like these 12 year chunks of time that have that have passed

01:52but i mean i i'll just start with that first chunk right so i probably the last time i saw you

01:58uh wow i was probably right out of college and started a early new york uh streetwear brand called pnb

02:06nation and it was uh a shout out to brew and bluster and west and shower and sung and we were just like

02:14friends that went to school together west went to high school with us uh bluster and brew went to the

02:20other art high school they went to art and design and and brew and i actually went to cooper union and

02:25we were just friends that kind of like hung out together and and uh and went to school together and

02:30we went from that to starting a business together and building a brand and we did that for for a big

02:37chunk so that was that first chunk and then after that we went our separate ways and uh the next phase

02:43of my life was corporate i went into corporate i was at uh macy's uh and and in the private private

02:50label set uh section or the arm of the private label armor macy's uh where i did uh i led design teams and

02:57men's and i had different roles everything from i came in as design director and then senior design

03:03director vice president design uh and yeah mostly uh in the men's private label and a little stanton kids

03:13um with the kids brand and then after and now uh i'm just uh you know slightly different rural uh creative

03:20uh senior director uh of uh of a lifestyle a men's lifestyle brand uh a denim brand and so it's a

03:28slightly different still like designing uh the assortment in terms of the in terms of the the the

03:34the clothing but also art directing you know photo shoots for marketing and for the website so so yeah

03:42just stayed in uh you know stayed in the the fashion game now i i want to start off by saying um

03:48um because there's so much that you've done over the years that people who are watching may not

03:56realize it until we talk about it and i'm going to bring this up first because like it was one of

04:03your first things and when it comes to hip-hop everyone knows my history in hip-hop when it comes to hip-hop

04:09a lot of people who started in hip-hop like two months ago um

04:15um didn't really know they didn't know that they were entrepreneurs until they actually started

04:22doing things and you were one of the first people one of the first people i've ever met ever interacted

04:28with that actually had a successful business from the ground up and for those that who are about our age

04:37which is about 22. um if you remember the brand pmb nation

04:46zulu was one of the co-founders of pmb nation and pmb nation like like was like um you know when

04:56you when you think of clothing brands specifically i don't know if y'all ever branded yourself streetwear

05:02but because streetwear was still a new thing you know and it wasn't looked upon as as it is now

05:08but like pmb nation at the time when hip-hop was literally like getting up to the great commercial

05:15status pmb nation was a big thing and i knew i knew the four guys that actually created the clothes

05:23that stand as pmb nation when y'all first ventured into the the entrepreneurial game

05:33under pmb nation did you have did y'all have any idea and this is the funny thing i know that people

05:40always have the goal of being successful but sometimes people either don't think that they

05:45would be as successful or they they feel like they're going to be more than what was your mindset

05:51or what was the mindset of you know your collective when pmb nation was first um started

05:58and two when people started like looking at pmb nation like like i mean y'all were like mentioned

06:04in the same name as like a fool who are called can i or like clothing brands that people like was like

06:11looking to see what they had coming out what was your thought like like i have so many questions but

06:16i'll let you start about like i said the first mindset when y'all first started pmb nation yeah

06:22i mean and you brought up something too about streetwear which is funny because streetwear wasn't even

06:27a term when we first started right that that term didn't even even exist um they didn't really have

06:33a a category for it but i went to uh school thinking that i was going to be a graphic designer right

06:42so i had no fashion background neither did anybody else in pmb um what we were doing we were going

06:48to art school during the day and we were you know coming up with these these sort of like t-shirt

06:54graphic concepts and we would be printing them in the in the uh silk screen department at night

07:00and i think the turning point for me was when we took we would put in a plastic we would go to

07:06delancey street and buy blanks and then we'd print up these shirts and we'd put them in plastic bags

07:10and take them to stores you know around the school and we went to soho and james jebbia had a store

07:16called union in soho and james jebbia of course created went on to create supreme and when we

07:22walked in and we showed him the t-shirts he just he loved them and he bought them outright and we were

07:28doing like consignment with stores and he just bought them up front and he called us like a week later

07:33and he was like look i just sold out when can i get some more and i think that was the turning point

07:38when i kind of shifted um you know my uh you know my career uh trajectory to to the fashion thing

07:47um and you know we had big we had big uh ambitions you know we wanted it to be uh not just a clothing

07:55brand we wanted it to to be a cafe we wanted it to be you know what i mean to be a record store

08:00whatever we we really had these huge sort of ambitions because it was it was more of like a lifestyle

08:07kind of thing that we were we were um you know aiming for or aspiring for um but yeah you know

08:16we didn't you know we were i appreciate the kind words i i feel like we were always sort of like

08:23underground um but um we luckily were picked up by a japanese distributor and i never forget going to

08:32japan and walking in tokyo or walking in osaka and seeing just how big pmv nation was in japan right

08:40so here it was sort of like you know you know like people knew but it was like word of mouth kind of

08:47thing and then we go there and and that's because i'm half japanese that's because my people when they

08:53get into something they really go in and they really obsess on it and hip-hop is no different right

08:59so the japanese djs were crazy like something would drop in new york city and it would just come

09:06out we get on a plane we go there and it would be like no radio play nothing and we walk into a club

09:11and they they would already have it and they would be playing it so yeah i mean they just really go in

09:19right okay um so yeah so that was that was and we all came from graffiti culture so

09:27the train era had ended uh west and i used to paint trains the train era had had had ended

09:34so that idea of seeing your name travel across the the city that that was gone so by doing pmb it was

09:41a way for us to sort of get up right to see our our our hand you know what we what we our fingerprints

09:48still travel around the city but on the backs of people it was like and like i said when when

09:59maybe the last time we we've actually saw each other um i think you had just either graduated from

10:06cooper union or you were like it was i remember i remember the exact date it was may 1st and the reason

10:15why i remember the exact date i don't remember the date but wow the only reason i remember because

10:19the day before my brother's birthday both my brothers and i remember that like um so i know it

10:26was around that time i either either you were graduating you are about to we ran into each other

10:31and it it was like um being like like you know it's like i'm i'm i'm in a video i'm i'm filming a video

10:42like like that would actually kind of change my life in a way where i become recognizable because i'm in

10:49a hip-hop video from mc life and she's bubbling up every first video and this is like her entry point

10:57she already had a single crammed understand but then paper thin put her on a level where she had

11:02a video i'm in the video so like um but not knowing it at that point in time but then remember seeing

11:08you and i forgot where i was going with this but um i think like what was pmb with p the bmb start before

11:18that yeah yeah yeah so yeah that's what i was going so knowing that you had already started that

11:25and remember we went to school with slick rick dana dane mc search carl payne donjay woodfield so

11:34we were like for me i'm like i'm in the midst of people who are celebrities like you know people

11:43that i know and it's different because when you're growing up celebrities are people you're

11:47never going to see or you'll only see from a distance or on a screen only here on the radio so

11:52knowing dana and them started making records and then carl payne is on the cosby show donjay's on the

12:00different things so it's like then when you had your clothing when you had your clothing i'm like yo

12:07this is about to blow up because it was there like you you you always felt like when you know that

12:13something is about to bubble that hasn't bubbled yet and just knowing that you were on a cusp of

12:20like blowing up i'm like yo zulu yo you're doing your thing blah blah blah you know so like just

12:29knowing that like and you've always been cool and we always like we always i guess we always champion

12:35the ones that have always been cool because the the idiots and the dickheads who actually become

12:41famous you're like he's a dick but you're like you know whatever but when there's somebody that you

12:46like honestly have respect for and we graduate the same year so i've always looked at you like like

12:51wow this is like big for somebody else that i know that's doing things in a different genre and like

13:00when when you got to that point like how would how did it feel leaving your apartment or leaving your

13:08house and going out in the streets people not knowing who you are because of course nowadays

13:15we have social media so everyone knows where everyone is but people not knowing who you are but

13:20seeing your clothes or seeing your clothes and videos rappers wearing your clothes and things that

13:25nature how does that make you feel if you're just walking down in the village and you see a pnb nation

13:30t-shirt or a hat or whatever clothing a person had on it was the exact same feeling that's a great

13:36question it was the exact same feeling that i felt as a graffiti writer and seeing my tag on a train

13:42you know what i mean or seeing my tag here and there around the city or traveling around the city

13:47it was that same rush you know what i mean uh but it's funny that's you know that that day i remember

13:54that day when i bumped into you and it's funny that you said that because i had the exact same thing

13:58but about you i was like wow man cedric is in a video he's filming videos he knows mc light like wow

14:06he's doing it you know what i mean and i i definitely walked away feeling feeling envious

14:11uh and like wow look at this dude man that's so funny but yeah no it that's an excellent question

14:19but uh yeah it's that feeling of getting up you know what i mean and and and seeing that i think

14:26if you ask 10 graffiti writers the motivation for writing graffiti probably seven eight of them are

14:33going to say fame you know so that that's that's that feeling of of seeing your name up and my

14:41apologies because i always have things on my list in order but then i never go in order you know

14:49oh it would have made more sense to mention your graffiti before the pmv nation but i was just so

14:56excited about the pmv nation thing that i had to jump right into that but um like you said with graffiti at

15:02that time now we're gonna have some viewers that's not gonna know what graffiti is outside of just

15:07like nasty things on the wall depending on where they grew up at but the time we brought graffiti was

15:12a big thing and and definitely one of the main points of hip-hop because you know there's five

15:18elements and people don't even recognize people recognize the dj people recognize the the break dancing

15:24and the emceeing but the graffiti aspect isn't as it was back then it was very prominent i want to know

15:33like what could you grew up in the lower east side right no harlem okay that's right harlem it was

15:41harlem um you had to wait didn't you have a story there's something about the village that i'm thinking

15:47oh you know what the cooper union i'm stupid yeah yeah well well bluster bluster bluster grew up in

15:52lower east side and then grew um he's from coney island but he he lived in the lower east side

15:59for a while so yeah we were definitely we were definitely we were definitely like sort of like

16:04hanging out and based in the lower east side for sure yeah um now yeah i keep doing that i miss oh

16:11so how did like um you grew up in harlem so hip-hop was around you regardless you know right whether

16:16you took to it or not hip-hop was around you how did you get into graffiti um yeah how did you get

16:24into graffiti and what motivated you to get to a point where and i and like i said we're going to

16:30have some viewers who are not going to understand how graffiti was back in the day to where graffiti

16:36was a thing even though new york wanted to outlaw it and prevent people from starting it but it was

16:42still art how did you get into the art of graffiti so i'm going to date myself so growing up in harlem

16:49near the the train station near where i lived so this is the subway era of graffiti uh so growing up

16:56as a kid in the 70s the train station near my house was the number one train and the number one train

17:03has a rich history of style in terms of graffiti right you had writers like cool 131 chain three

17:12you know part one these are like masters so i was blessed to i feel or lucky to have that train

17:23as the train that my family and i you know would get around you know we didn't have a car obviously so

17:28that was the way we got around the city and just being around all of that art um amazing masterpieces

17:36and product you know you know on the trains by by some of the greatest whoever did it and so maybe

17:43you know at first i wasn't really paying attention and then i started to kind of like study it and then

17:48obviously later on i participated so it was that evolution um and then by the time i got to high

17:54school uh in in the time that i first met you uh i i was at that point i was i was addicted to it and

18:03caught the bug right so the other thing about where i grew up in harlem i grew up uh on 153rd street

18:11um the the mta and then on weekends they they lay up because the on the weekends is the is less

18:20trained so part of their fleet is laid up in between stations they call that the layup it's a parked in

18:26between stations and 10 blocks from my house was the the layout on 145th street so um that was my the trains

18:38were there so your playground that was my playground and uh and luckily um a writer by the name of flight

18:47rest in peace uh he he sort of took me under his wing he was like you know the entree for me to to get

18:55into those yards because he was like kind of the gatekeeper there oh he he knew the gatekeepers there

19:00and and that was my yeah and that and and uh that's how i got into it what what's amazing to me back then

19:08was like graffiti just like emceeing dancing anything else was an art form and not only was it an art form

19:18because what some people didn't realize was that there was like there were like y'all had techniques

19:26with everything you did it wasn't about taking a spray can and just doing this like um from like

19:33knowing people like you and other people that were involved in it like it was like a lesson in

19:40i don't even know how to describe it but it's like the techniques and everything like you if you

19:46if you use this particular service you can't use this type you need this and it's like i was always

19:50amazed because i'm like niggas y'all are just waiting and sit on the wall but it was more than that and

19:57like i said you know years later i'm realizing because what ended up happening is that um

20:04your your art was actually featured and i said art specifically your art was actually featured in

20:10some books and even i think in some movies in a couple movies right yeah yeah yeah yeah tell the

20:17people about that because i'm there but i'm not yeah i i was uh i was lucky uh during my cooper union

20:25years uh i was able to uh i was hired to do all the graffiti in the movie juice and um yeah juice

20:33and and that was a interesting story i had a girlfriend and she lived in this building in harlem and

20:39the director ernest dickerson and um and the production designer this guy named lester cohen

20:45they were knocking on doors looking for apartments you know where they could you know filmed you know

20:51uh some of the scenes and they knocked on her door and she was a you know she was a writer uh she wrote

20:58for like she was a journalist she wrote for like the village voice and and and and stuff like that so

21:03she you know she was on her grind you know she was just trying to make ends meet so her apartment

21:07low story short had no furniture like she had this big two-bedroom apartment you know those big harlem

21:13pre-war apartments yeah and but she had no furniture so it was perfect like they didn't have to like move

21:19anything and then they were looking through her apartment and they were like wow okay boom boom boom

21:24and then i had done a piece of her name and she hung it up on her bedroom uh door and the production

21:30designer lester cohen was like who did that and she was like oh that's my boyfriend and he was like really

21:36give him my card because we need a graffiti writer we want some authentic graffiti in a movie and we

21:40need a graffiti writer to um you know to do it um you know i'd like to meet him and just have him

21:46bring his books so i remember i went down there i remember i walked in it was like that's where they

21:52were doing that casting it was like this office with cubicles or whatever office space and i remember

21:57seeing pop there and uh i think they had just given him the role and then uh yeah the guy you know

22:04interviewed me hired me on the spot he gave me the script and uh i took it home and i'll be honest

22:10man i thought it was terrible i thought i thought i read it i was like wow this is really corny and then

22:17and then um and he was like when he gave me the script he was like on page such and such you know

22:23that's where we think we could do something you know on page this whatever but if you have any other

22:28ideas let me know so i read the script and i had a couple ideas and i pitched it to him the next day

22:34and he was like yeah cool and they they kept them in in the movie so so yeah it was that was uh that

22:40was a really cool experience there's another thing that like everything is rushing to my brain now from

22:46back then graffiti artists actually had catalog like like the the pictures and like where like the

22:55murals and the walls and the subway cars and things of that nature and like i said i can respect that

23:01because it's like you know you want to show off your work and back then that was considered a crime

23:06because you know you're defacing property as far as the city was concerned so for you to like to be

23:11bragging that you did these things on something that you could literally get arrested for was amazing

23:17to me because it also showed the dedication to the art like i said graffiti was never considered art

23:24as a matter of fact when i went to i think it was ah memphis either memphis or yeah memphis they have

23:34streets of nothing but graffiti yeah and um when i went for the first time and we're walking and like

23:43you know because i usually go with some of the tourism more because like you know my job like

23:50tourist boards always contact me to come and write about you know the area so i'm looking around like

23:55yo this looks like a clean new york and they start laughing at me i said y'all don't get it y'all just took me

24:02back like 30 40 years i mean um 10 years off because i'm like when i grew up in new york like our

24:10streets was like this and as great as this looks they started painting over them because they considered

24:17it like like not art and it's like but y'all are glorifying it and it's like i think also in toronto i

24:24think it's wrong that they have something because when i went to toronto i believe it was they had um an

24:29area so to see that within the last three years when york were doing that a couple of years ago

24:39it was amazing to me because now it's still considered art but back then it was you know

24:46i know i went off on a tangent but it's like um no you're right yeah you're right i mean cities like

24:53new orleans and obviously miami i mean there's there's so much there's so much you know uh you

25:00know so so much street art and and graffiti you know going on uh that looks that looks really amazing

25:06and uh yeah i i like you of of course uh when i travel also keep an eye out for that and um

25:14and i think austin too but yeah always always impressed by that but yeah man it's it's uh you

25:22know it's it's come it's come a long way and it's in and not just this country you know um tokyo whatever

25:31you know you you go around the world and and uh yeah it's just it's exploded around the world

25:37isn't it amazing that something that we created when we were young from music to art to anything

25:46in between that was considered either ghetto or not good enough or still being recognized around the

25:54world even today so i find that like you know and to be at the beginning of it like you know

26:01we set the tone even if we didn't start it we carried it on whereas now it's still being carried

26:08on and that's something that we have to like applaud you know like i applaud people like you because

26:14i couldn't even i couldn't even scribble correctly let alone like actually like know how to make

26:23i mean it was just amazing how if i'm walking down the street and i see a war the way the cartoon

26:29characters and this that and in the and sometimes y'all did it under the guise of like

26:35nighttime because you didn't want to get caught yeah you only had several hours to do it but by the

26:41time you finish it looked better than some of the paintings you see in museums across the world and and

26:51this is what i'll tell you about earlier when i was like sometimes i'll go off because i'm not i wasn't

26:55even anticipating this because even though i had the graffiti thing written down i really forgot

27:00because like i said i got caught with the pmb nation but i'm glad we did discuss this because

27:04that is an important part of not only new york but hip-hop and your um your upbringing now what i want to

27:14what i want to ask you is that we went to music we both went to music and art of course i went for music

27:19you went for art what um what led you to music and art my whole family went to music and art my mom went

27:27to music and art uh my aunt went to music and art my uncle um my mother-in-law my father-in-law i mean every

27:35every uh everybody uh sort of went there so it was always you know there but um my uncle uh he i remember

27:47being a small child this is around the time he went to music and art and and uh he had what i

27:54considered the superpower right he could he could draw anything i asked him to draw right so i could say

27:59you know draw a guy with an afro and then with a trench coat and you know with a mouse in his pocket

28:04whatever he could draw anything and it to me that was such a superpower you know what i mean like that was

28:10like magic you know and i i think as it blew my mind you know i just wanted to i i think i made a

28:18conscious decision at that time that whatever i did for my livelihood or whatever i just wanted

28:24it to be something creative so it kind of you know took me down that path of you know art high school

28:31art college and what happened yeah i'm sorry i'm just bothered because both my computers are on do

28:40not disturb and i'm hearing sounds from my computer i'm sorry that kind of threw me off um let let's

28:49go further because i got to re-continue the conversation and we'll be here till next tuesday

28:54and we'll be talking about what you were doing at the age of 23. but um you worked at macy's for

29:01like 70 years um like what was that experience because going from pnb nation when you had you

29:10know when you predated street wear to actually going to a corporate atmosphere um and of course you're

29:17not you're not um doing graffiti right like how how how did actually the two-part question how did um

29:27i'm gonna go back a little further because i i tell people that i think music and art was one of the

29:32best experiences i've ever had in my life not only because of the people that went there but because

29:36of just the experience itself right so how did the experience of music and art um your graffiti

29:43experience and just growing up in new york prepare you to work at a corporate entity that would probably

29:51at the time was probably like looking at street where it looks like ah whatever but then of course

29:58you want to grab the talent from people that's involved yeah i mean um

30:05i don't think it it did well you know that's not true uh i think there was there was a lot of things

30:13that were transferable from from from pmb nation into the into the corporate world uh one of the

30:21things is i i came from an experience where i was an owner right so as an owner you have this attitude

30:28like you know whatever it takes you know you got to get it done and and you really uh internal internalize

30:37everything and and and everything uh you know and you just you you're an owner so everything is like

30:45super super super important you know what i mean uh and and and so i obviously i didn't own macy's but i brought that

30:55ownership kind of attitude with me where um yeah i gotta get this done or i i gotta make this better or this

31:03has to be you know this has to be perfect or whatever you know what i mean so it wasn't like oh it's you know

31:10it's time to go home or or or whatever it's the end of the day kind of thing it was like no this is

31:17uh you know this is something that is is is important you know what i mean and uh something that has to

31:23i have to get right so i think that that was a good transferable skill but i think the big difference

31:29between um you know uh uh between the two uh kind of kind of kind of things is is like when you own

31:39your own business you're wearing many hats right but in a corporate situation it's it's it's kind of

31:46like the opposite where you're kind of focused on a on a role uh you know on a on a specific role and

31:52you have to learn how to work well with other departments and other people and cross-functionally

31:58you know what i mean so um i think that's that's probably the real difference between the two

32:03you know now i want to um go to what what you're doing today um senior creative director

32:13devil dog wait yeah devil dog degrees yeah yeah they're doing that sorry

32:21yeah so back in the private sector and um back into that you know wearing many hats kind of kind of thing

32:29um i i i think at macy's at the end of my tenure at macy's i was becoming more and more of a manager

32:37uh you know as you move up you kind of get further away i feel like from the tactile hands-on

32:43uh creative stuff um i mean you have to be creative but it's in other ways uh so um i wanted to get back

32:51to yeah just just getting i i love i've always had a love for for product development especially in

32:58denim so um uh i wanted to get back to something something like that i was like a at while i was at

33:06macy's i i was you know like a denim nerd and i kind of nerded out on it and uh and i wanted to get

33:13back to that so yeah so it's it's uh you know it's a little different like i said earlier you know it's

33:19it's it's art direction as well uh which is cool and it's anything that's customer facing so all the

33:24marketing and stuff so it's a lot of control and and uh yeah it's it's it's uh it's it's different

33:32because because of that because of all the control so it's great what um when it comes to creative jobs

33:43like in a corporate environment how do you or how are you able to or are able to

33:52fixate your creative impulse with corporate needs

34:00because it's two different things at the end of the day how are you able to continue to keep this

34:06creative but on a corporate level yeah i mean there's there's so much there's a lot of strategy

34:14involved so you have to be creative in that way um in terms of like uh strategizing whether it's the

34:22assortment or strategizing how things are released or how things are are sold or you know the timing

34:28and all of that so there are ways to be creative there um and and then in terms of um you know just

34:36bringing something to the table that maybe they don't know about you know uh you you're the one

34:45i always felt like i was always out there when i was traveling and trend uh you know shopping i was

34:53always out there like cool hunting and i just wanted to bring something to the table that was

34:59cool that maybe they you know hadn't had known about and a lot of the that was about just being

35:07able to influence and and being able to pitch ideas and and uh and that that's one of the experience

35:16that i i really one of the things about the corporate experience that i really liked

35:20was pitching ideas and and and bringing things to the table that you know people didn't know about

35:27and sort of like educating people on certain things that uh that i felt the customer you know really

35:34wanted or it was important to the customer if you could do anything over again when it comes to

35:42pmb nation what would it be and why wow that's a great question

35:48um if i could do anything over the pmb nation whether it be and why

35:58i mean it was it was

36:01it was a it was such a a great time um i think the times that i liked the most about it were the earlier

36:11days of it you know when it was when we were we really didn't know much and we were kind of learning

36:19as we went um i would love to relive that again i don't know if i would i would change anything uh i

36:26just would love to relive that i mean this was before the internet you know what i mean this was like

36:33when we were trying to like figure something out or find something you know you had to look in the

36:39yellow pages and you had to like knock on doors and and pound the pavement and and we were just

36:47you know we had all these concepts you know and you know we had to research them and and and we were

36:54using exacto blades and and rulers and you know i mean and acetate and you know it's just uh it was just

37:04a an amazing time before the internet and i just i would just love to be with that so let's bring

37:17social media and internet 30 years earlier how does pmb function in the social media slash internet world

37:29in a what social media less internet world yeah i mean we had stickers um and they had an upside down

37:40pig on it and they had different neighborhoods like chinatown lower east side of uptown and we would

37:47you know you know smack up 10 stickers a day and hand out 40 and then we would be in neighborhoods we

37:54never been before and we would see the stickers on bodegas and you know it was just like that that sort of

38:00guerrilla marketing and that sort of uh you know what i mean like it was it was just an amazing time

38:08that was our social media yeah being outside and being social around the people street teams exactly

38:18i i always say to people because like um when i speak to people that are um younger than us about like

38:24marketing and promotion and things that make sure how to get the word out you know i used to go parties

38:29and when they were asking me questions about throwing parties like 20 years ago i'm like

38:36you had to be outside literally hours at a time you had to be everywhere where people were

38:43and sometimes the area that people weren't so that way you can get two people to come let alone 100

38:49people and then you had to do it on a consistent basis where that one day you can miss out on such many

38:56opportunities but nowadays you don't even need a computer all you need is a phone internet access

39:03and you can do everything on the phone and it's like i think we we've become our parents and

39:09grandparents when our grandparents would say how they have to walk to school two miles and we get to

39:15take bus and trains you know and i think we're at that age where it's like like i started in the internet

39:22like before people even had computers industry cosign is 21 years old um i used to code in the post

39:30as opposed to just copy paste bang stories up so i i i always say to people like it's just amazing how

39:38what even when i used to produce we said we've had to buy reels we have to like book studio time

39:47like nowadays you just all you need is a phone again send it to your boy he has the music slice

39:54it together dang it could be on spotify in half an hour wow the things that i did it would take months

40:01i could record something tonight then we have to get it mastered mixed and then everything else and

40:07didn't get it put on vinyl then sent to the radio station i'm like yo i mean i i say all that to say

40:12like do you think that if we had the tools that current generation has now for whatever we were doing

40:2130 years ago how do you think it would have played out because i think we thrive on

40:28like getting our hands dirty yeah like today they don't need to get their hands dirty like how do

40:35you think that you know uh i know it's hard to respond because you're never going to know because

40:40you were actually in the mix but what do you think that if you had the same mindset with the capabilities

40:46of today how would you think your your whole career would have ended um not ended um would have been

40:53that's a good question i i don't know i mean i i feel fortunate of of being uh you know coming up

41:02when at the time that i did you know for the reasons that we just talked about um i don't know how we

41:09would have handled you know social media and when i'm sure we would have adapted and figured it out but

41:18it was just something um something i think really cool about the way we came up and yeah and like

41:28the process you just talked about of like getting music out and how long it took and you had to do

41:33this and then you had to do that you know i wouldn't trade uh i'm not you know i wouldn't trade any of

41:40that for the world you know what i mean like the way the way that we did it um i think it it you know

41:48sort of built character and built you know built built us uh to the people that we are

41:57what what's what's what's coming up what's in the future what is zulu working on i would like to work

42:01on that you know you would like to discuss i haven't again i haven't figured it out i haven't

42:08figured it out i'm still working on that that plan i gotta i gotta i gotta figure it out yeah no i

42:15i don't know yet i've been there for years i get it yeah i totally get it yeah but i i do appreciate

42:25you know your time and and you know speaking about your experience and just some of the things that

42:31you've done and continue to do and as i say for me it's like um definitely a thank you for what you've

42:38done and to show my appreciation that you know you you you've been doing your thing and for

42:45so long that you know you're still you know not only just breathing but you're still doing it

42:50and that can be appreciated because especially in our industry whether it's fashion music or

42:55entertainment you know people get burnt out quickly yeah because we've been through so many

43:00iterations of our industries where like we're still around and that's definitely commendable because

43:05lesser people have definitely faltered and just got out of it and i know you can appreciate still

43:12being involved and still having the chance to do something because despite how old you are no

43:18how old we are we can still do things and i think that that's um i think when we were younger we

43:24thought like 50 was like too old to do anything i know now that we're over 50 we're like

43:30i got 20 years left what are you talking about i'm still doing this i'm still doing that and

43:35you know i think i could say that you you and i can can at least say that we don't look our age

43:41because i'm always questioning about my age and i tell people my age look at me like

43:46out of here why would i say i'm older like why right right if i was 13 maybe but come on let's go with it

43:55it no i i appreciate it i really appreciate this subject for real man thanks for reaching out and

44:01uh you know a lot of times you know i'm guilty of not you know reaching out to people so when people

44:07do it to me i really i really appreciate it man uh it's good it's good to see you man it's good to see

44:14you too yeah and for the people watching you see he said cedric he didn't say big sense you know he knows me

44:20they said no no no no no i tell people i love my name i love i love effective motor i mean i gave

44:28myself big said but i always tell people you can tell how long a person knows me from what they call

44:35me so if you call me cedric you know me like you know me because you always knew me as cedric you know

44:42big said came around a little bit later so you know if you're not calling me big said you know and

44:47you're used to calling me cedric i can appreciate that because i'm never going to run away from who

44:51i am or where i come from so please i love subject subject i love you know big said was something i

44:57made up you know so cedric was something that was given to me by my mother i i appreciate that so

45:03but i just want to point it out because i'm so used to like uh people to say either said or big said

45:10where it's like when someone called me cedric i'm like yeah that is my name yes you know

45:14but i i do appreciate your time and um you know much luck in any and everything that you do and

45:22i'm glad that we had this time because um and i told you before we started filming this is still a

45:27chance to catch up and as i stated in the beginning people's like we literally haven't spoken in years

45:33and when i say speak like you know you can send a dm or im or a text and be like hey how you doing

45:39but to really have a conversation is a different thing and that's another reason like when i when

45:44i started this platform i i made sure i reached out to people that i've always respected that i

45:49haven't spoken to in a while because i also feel like you know what better way to catch up than to

45:55catch up in front of people and let people realize like why i feel my friends are better than

46:00yours so um let the people let the people know like how they can get in touch with you if they

46:05have any questions or if they just curious about who you are and things of that nature oh yeah um

46:12you can hit me up on uh you can hit me up on linkedin um i could tell you

46:21do you even have social media i meant to ask you that

46:24i don't really engage some people don't and i get it you know i don't really engage to be honest

46:31i mean yeah um that's why i said that i said to myself i'm like wait a minute

46:37yeah that's a good that's a good way to do it surge numeral one fc yeah you can hit me up on on ig

46:43surge numeral one fc surge one fc that's the best way to do it well like i said i do appreciate

46:50your time and like you know if you ever need me you can always reach back out actually i gotta

46:55slide you my number when we get off this um just so you can have but um like i said i'm glad i reached

47:00out to you and um anybody on linkedin linkedin is definitely a great tool because you know with

47:06linkedin it's mostly business which is what i like about it because everybody's on facebook

47:11instagram and all the other things but for like keeping up with people when it comes to business and

47:17career wise like too many people a lot of people on facebook anymore what i've noticed but um like

47:24i said i'm glad that you know we're both on on linkedin and we reconnected because like i said

47:30um i definitely like enjoyed this and um you know congratulations everything you've done

47:37and if it's if you ever like rehash the pmb nation thing i'll be a spokesperson i wouldn't and i won't

47:48even ask for any money you know i'll hold you to it you know so once again everybody this is big

47:55set in the street code sign my friends are better than yours and if you think that i'm lying show me

48:00your friends and i'll prove you wrong actually i'm going i'll be i'll be i'll go as far as saying that

48:06your friends are probably my friends anyway so you know let's connect once again to the next time

48:13big said thanks to zulu williams peace and people until the next time

48:18big said thanks to zulu williams peace and people until the next time thank you my brother yeah thank you man word

48:31i enjoyed it

48:33yeah

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