My Friends Are Better Than Yours Featuring Molaundo Jones

bigced

Molaundo is a marketing strategist working at the intersections of art, entrepreneurship, and education. He currently serves as Associate Director of Content Marketing at Morehouse College.  As a marketing coach and consultant, Molaundo has led workshops for thousands of artists and coached hundreds of individuals with institutions including New York Foundation for the Arts, Creative Capital, and Queens Council on the Arts. His book Art & Algorithms: Marketing Strategies and Tools for Artists offers artists and creative entrepreneurs best practices in marketing designed to grow their audiences and careers, drawing from decades of experience working with artists and cultural institutions.     Molaundo has worked with several mission-driven cultural organizations, including Flushing Town Hall, Art21, Black Girl Ventures Foundation, Fractured Atlas, and the NYC Arts in Education Roundtable. He has also served on grant panels for the NYC Department of Cultural Affairs, Museum of Arts & Design, and Brooklyn Arts Council. As Founder of The Clever Agency, he has partnered with global clients on marketing projects and has served as President of the Board of Fourth Arts Block (FABnyc) since 2021. He holds a BA in Marketing from Morehouse College and an MFA in Fine Arts from the School of Visual Arts.  Connect with BIG CED:  https://www.youtube.com/@bigced328?sub_confirmation=1 https://www.instagram.com/bigced328/  https://www.facebook.com/bigced328  https://x.com/bigced  https://bsky.app/profile/bigced328.bsky.social  https://www.linkedin.com/in/bigced/  https://www.twitch.tv/bigced328  https://www.dailymotion.com/bigced https://rumble.com/user/bigced328  https://open.spotify.com/show/35yBW0BTd4c7HvCnh9dVXz?si=HvZeE8RfTJGH6YjvHBiYzg&nd=1&dlsi=a147a471e6ab4c5c  https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-industry-cosign/id1638654676  https://www.iheart.com/podcast/269-the-industry-cosign-105171601/  https://theindustrycosign.com/

Transcript

00:00:00once again people this is big said then it's your cosign um back at it thanks for tuning in and um

00:00:18for those that are tuning in for the first time this is my friends are better than yours

00:00:23and the purpose of this platform is that i've been doing this thing for years and

00:00:27i'm getting sick of you know talking to celebrities and people i really don't know i care about

00:00:32i shouldn't say that lord forgive me but i have like some dope friends and as as some of you who've

00:00:38seen this before or who know me knows i have a lot of great friends doing great things so i started

00:00:43this platform my friends are better than yours because one my friends are better than yours you

00:00:47know even if you're my friend my friends are still better than yours but anyway today we have um a

00:00:53young man he's not that young but a young man who's doing his thing um and we're going to speak

00:01:00about we're going to try to get through the many things he's done because he's done so

00:01:04so much over the years sorry i don't position myself i have valando jones the clever agency

00:01:11um people have told me before i i should like do a bio intro this is my show i'm gonna do what i want so

00:01:18during the course of the show you're gonna find out about you know what he does and who he is anyway so

00:01:21and plus the bios in the in the um in the bio section when you look at the section on you know

00:01:27youtube or facebook wherever you look at it but anyway um milando jones is here welcome to my friends

00:01:37are better than yours glad to have you here and um before we actually start um why don't you

00:01:44i would say well reintroduce yourself since i kind of introduced you already and just give the people a

00:01:49brief synopsis of who you are and what you do and then we'll take it from there yes yes milando jones

00:01:58i am an artist educator entrepreneur career marketer and i've recently added author to my multi-hyphenate

00:02:09i'm originally from new york um and i've worked largely in the arts and education sectors

00:02:16cool oops i just okay there we go sorry some people who watch it they know that sometimes i'm

00:02:25doing like 17 different things because i'm just trying to make myself look like i know what i'm

00:02:29talking about and um you know so i have my notes and stuff like that but i can't remember i can't

00:02:35remember exactly how we met i just know that we met and it was like many years ago and you know it was

00:02:42an instant connection and i i've always appreciated you know hanging out with you are by just being

00:02:47around you and and many things i believe it was a brooke stevenson connection right you met through

00:02:54the homie brooke stevenson i think it was that i don't hear you you're in the grill village events

00:02:59back i can't wait can't hear you again oh you know what no no i did that it's my fault again excuse me

00:03:06people it's one of those days for me personally so excuse me um would you say they probably heard

00:03:11you but i didn't hear you so it was brooke stevenson right i'm saying it was definitely through brooke

00:03:16stevenson and it was at one of your negril village events for sure yes for those who don't know i i

00:03:23used to do parties i was at the grill village for 14 years doing networking and industry parties for

00:03:29you know the elites of the industry and also brooke stevenson um rest in peace was um one of the

00:03:41original i had three people there was three people that started the industry co-sign myself brooke

00:03:47stevenson and tim moore um brooke and tim are no longer with us so i'm the lone the sole survivor

00:03:56but brooke was um what was the very first person that when me and tim started the site brooke was a

00:04:01very first person that i reached out to to actually be involved with the site to write but i was like

00:04:06you know what i want you to be a part of this and um so that's my little ode to brooke stevenson

00:04:13detroit native and um yeah like i said that's how we met but you just recently okay so i'm gonna get

00:04:20right into it because we're gonna have a discussion about like so many things you've done but i know

00:04:24you've just recently and coincidentally i reached out to you at a time when you literally just

00:04:30released a book the funny thing is i had no clue but i was reaching out to you because you know i

00:04:36know you and i feature you on my site before and things of that nature and like as i like go through

00:04:42my rolodex or i don't even think people don't use rolodex anymore i just age myself i you know when

00:04:48i come across either somebody's um profile on linkedin facebook or if i just happen to think of

00:04:53somebody i reach out and like when i reach out to you i saw that you had written actually after i

00:04:59reached out to you then i saw you wrote a book and i'm like oh this is good timing either that or you

00:05:04just ignored me previously but we'll get into that another time but um tell us what the book actually

00:05:10you know what i'm actually because even though i've never done this before i'm trying to be better

00:05:16i'm going to wait hold up i think this is it hold up

00:05:23i can't hear excitement in doing so but you have a book um what's the book the name of the book the

00:05:37reason you wrote the book and what can people who purchase a book get from it yes yes so the book is

00:05:45art and algorithms marketing strategies and tools for artists um i wrote the book because i have

00:05:53worked in marketing like i said my entire career but i've also worked in professional development

00:06:00now probably for about half of my career starting with queen's council on the arts so in new york city

00:06:07every borough has its own arts council so i used to manage the professional development programs for

00:06:13artists at qca and that's when i started working with artists doing group workshops on marketing

00:06:20and grant writing and then over the years i transitioned into doing one-on-one coaching

00:06:26largely with nifa new york foundation for the arts so i've been their primary marketing coach

00:06:33probably for about five years now um so i've done a ton of one-on-one coaching sessions with artists

00:06:40from across all disciplines so visual artists musicians dancers actors writers etc i've done a

00:06:48ton of group workshops with them as well and i've also coached the grantees of the creative capital

00:06:55foundation which is a national foundation that gives grants to emerging artists and so through all of

00:07:02these experiences doing pd with artists i started to learn like what threads ran through all of those

00:07:11artists careers when it came to their needs to market themselves their frustrations with marketing

00:07:17themselves the things that were like the most challenging things for them to figure out when it

00:07:22comes to marketing i myself am an artist as well i haven't practiced um commercially as an artist in a long

00:07:31time but um i went to undergrad for business grad school for fine art and i was out in the streets

00:07:37of nyc making my bones as a painter for a long time so even though i'm working on the business side of

00:07:44art i also understand the struggles of what it means to be an artist especially in the new york city market

00:07:53an environment and so i wrote this book to create very accessible simple best practices and to provide

00:08:03some scenarios and tools and case studies to help artists break through the frustration of marketing

00:08:12themselves and figuring out how this whole world works like most artists just want to create the work

00:08:18they don't want to spend too much time promoting or marketing the work so yeah my goal with this book

00:08:24was to like really simplify some processes and give some tips and tools to artists to execute to help get

00:08:32their work out there okay congratulations on the um publishing of the book itself and um i was quite

00:08:42surprised because but well i didn't know about it so of course that's what's that's why i was surprised but um

00:08:49i as far as an artist like how did you get into becoming an artist because i know that when when

00:08:55we when we are doing things for either our careers or even for our leisure like there's always a

00:09:00backstory because like everyone doesn't have the same beginning so what led you to becoming an artist

00:09:07before you took on the role of a marketer yeah well yeah yeah no i've been an artist my whole life

00:09:14like i was you know i was born an artist um so i've done it my whole life but i didn't really know

00:09:20artists like that growing up like professional artists so i never took it that serious and you know

00:09:26i grew up you know kind of poor and so my whole thing was like well i'm not going to go to school for

00:09:31art because i already do this and let me get a background that will allow me to sort of prosper

00:09:36that's why i ended up going into business and studying marketing but it was years after you know

00:09:42going through college and graduating and having my first job after college i was out in the midwest in

00:09:48the middle of nowhere um for the first time you know being a city kid most of my life and so i was

00:09:54kind of like losing my mind a little bit and then my mom was like well why don't you get back into your

00:09:59art and like maybe that'll help so i started like painting kind of as art therapy at first um and then

00:10:06it just took on legs and became something that i started like doing and having shows and doing

00:10:12commissions for people and then i decided to try to do it seriously and apply to grad school

00:10:19and i ended up getting accepted into the mfa fine arts program at sva in new york that's the school

00:10:25of visual arts um and yeah and i just you know spent a lot of time doing commissions having shows

00:10:32lots of group shows a couple solo shows and yeah it was um it was a wild time you know it was great i

00:10:39probably wasn't the the the healthiest of artists you know i was like a vampire life kind of guy you

00:10:45know i'm going to the studio at 9 p.m leaving at 3 4 in the morning um but i i do miss those days

00:10:52sometimes for sure yeah how does how does your artistry or the art that you've done in the past

00:11:00how did it prepare you to become um an entrepreneur in the space that you're in now because there's always

00:11:07parallels how did how did or what did you take from being an artist that you've used successfully

00:11:13for you know your your business and we're about to go into the clever agency like after you responses

00:11:19because i've i just realized that we we didn't touch on the clever agency for people to understand

00:11:24like why it would be a correlation actually you know what before you even respond to that

00:11:29why don't you explain what the clever agency is how long it's been around like the the the

00:11:33the you know the the meat and bones of it so that way let's say meat and bones well anyway oh and

00:11:39then we'll tackle that question so that way it can kind of correlate and people can understand

00:11:44why i asked that question yes sir yes sir um so the clever agency is a marketing consultancy that i

00:11:50started back in 2011 late 2011 really launched in 2012 and i started it with a few friends of mine

00:12:00brooke stevenson who we mentioned earlier charles vincent burwell ramon de los santos and james sasser

00:12:07and the whole thing at that point in time when i started clever was most of my career at that

00:12:13point was working in the non-profit sector so one i wanted to start a for-profit venture

00:12:20and then two i just wanted to really do some cool things some fun things with my friends all of whom

00:12:27were artists as well like all of these guys whether these guys are writers designers musicians and so

00:12:33i figured we could pull our talents our experiences and our connections and create something that we

00:12:40could build together and like actually have fun doing you know like when you have when you're out

00:12:45there trying to pay your bills you do what you got to do you might not necessarily like the work all

00:12:50the time or even the people that you work with but you know the bills got to get paid so clever was my

00:12:57sort of escapism from the work that i had to do and my opportunity to do work that i wanted to do with

00:13:05the homies so what's the clever agency um i know that it's a well-rounded agency but what is i don't

00:13:13want to say focus but what is the purpose of the agency and who does it apply to when it comes to doing

00:13:20business with yes yes um so we're a full service agency i'd say for most of the formative years of

00:13:27the majority of the time that clever has been around our bread and butter really was or has been content

00:13:34creation so lots of photo lots of video web development we've all still helped to host events

00:13:42but in years past we've sort of pivoted more in the strategy and research realms so we still will do

00:13:52production and offer production services but now we're more you know trying to serve companies by

00:13:59offering them expertise from like a bird's eye view to help them troubleshoot organizational issues

00:14:05especially when it comes to their marketing and communications okay so so let's go back rewinds um

00:14:14in case you forgot the original question because i think i forgot oh how has your art how has your

00:14:19artwork or how has your um your art artistry and your art mindset um helped you or lead to the the clever

00:14:29agency or how has it helped you something along those lines yeah no i mean well it actually goes

00:14:37back all the way to my undergrad years um i attended morehouse college in atlanta georgia um and my

00:14:45choice of uh a major so like i said i wasn't going to like major in art because i was like how do i make

00:14:53money from art at the time i didn't get it but my whole thing at that point in time was like all right

00:14:58if i'm going to study business because i also knew that i had to i've always had an entrepreneurial spirit

00:15:05my mom um is a bit of an entrepreneur and instilled that in me so i was like i should also learn business

00:15:11so that one day when i start my own business i know you know all of the best practices but in my

00:15:17selection of marketing i chose marketing because it is the most creative discipline of business

00:15:27administration at least in my opinion and so so yeah so my artistry even informed me choosing to be

00:15:34a marketer and then when it came to the formation of the clever agency and even just my career path

00:15:42working largely with arts organizations and artists um it was just the natural fusion of

00:15:50those worlds like of art and business and marketing um so yeah so for me it's been awesome to be able to

00:15:59actually use all of the things that i've learned over the years in terms of this you know education

00:16:05that i paid for and all of the pd that i've done because i know a lot of people don't don't get to

00:16:10actually use you know the degrees that they studied for and whatnot so i feel super honored to be able to do

00:16:17that and and yeah i feel like even though now i work more on the business side than the fine art side

00:16:26because i work with so many artists um i feel as grounded in the world of the arts as i do in business

00:16:35okay it's funny because i actually um featured you in black enterprise five years ago that was awesome

00:16:43and yes and it's so funny because i look i'm just looking at it now um i just lost my space which i

00:16:53always do because there was a question that i had asked you wait as you were talking i saw it and then

00:17:01of course i lost it so excuse me for being how i am today okay i think well you um

00:17:13i had asked is there any trend or idea you see emerging soon and you're responsible i think

00:17:18the impact of covert 19 has pushed creatives to think about the way that technology can be used

00:17:23to get their work out there how to quite frankly survive when your work is dependent on being

00:17:28physically present with others i also think it's still just beginning of the evolution of smart

00:17:33technology voice marketing and artificial intelligence and marketing and sales and that

00:17:39most creators have barely scratched the surfaces they use i don't even remember saying that that's

00:17:43crazy and it's funny that you know and basically you were right and um you know and it's funny because

00:17:52like when we are looking towards the future you know sometimes we don't always get it but there's

00:17:57always the you know something in the back of the mind that especially with the work you're doing that you

00:18:01have an idea of what is going on based on your experience like so what do you have to say now that

00:18:06you've heard that you know your words from five years ago yeah it's it's kind of wild man um i mean

00:18:14because i even think back you know you know talking about aging ourselves like i when i first started

00:18:21in marketing there was no social media you know and most of my marketing work was print right and so

00:18:28now what 26 years later everything's digital there's still print of course will always be around to some

00:18:36degree but the focus in terms of most companies resources is digital and you know you look at the

00:18:43the prevalence of social media and now how like you know your social media presence partly defines who

00:18:50you are as a human being insane that's an insane concept when you think about it right um and now

00:18:57we're looking at the advancement of ai and artificial intelligence and how quickly the technology has like

00:19:04scaled and and improved and yeah especially in the artist community most artists um feel justifiably so

00:19:14to some extent that artificial intelligence is a major threat to their careers right and so yeah it's

00:19:23it's a wild time to be alive it's interesting to hear that quote um come back to me because even in my

00:19:30book i have a chapter um it's one of the shorter chapters in my book but um it's all about artificial

00:19:38intelligence and trying to have an impact on the shift of artists mindsets when it comes to ai

00:19:47and what i mean by that is yes there are a lot of uh potentially sinister sides of artificial intelligence

00:19:55that we're going to encounter but there's no putting the genie back in the bottle right

00:20:03this is the wave of the future and so what i encourage artists to do in the book is to actually

00:20:10learn as much as they can about artificial intelligence to explore and learn tools that they can

00:20:17leverage to actually help amplify their work or improve their workflow processes for themselves or with

00:20:24their teams so that they don't actually uh they don't find that artificial intelligence is as much as a

00:20:35disadvantage to them as it is a benefit to what they're doing and it's funny because um i'm whenever

00:20:43i think of artificial intelligence even today i still think of the terminator in irobot and and i tell

00:20:50people that i've been so i'm not going to say i've been anti-artificial intelligence but i haven't

00:20:57embraced it and i literally had a conversation yesterday i spoke to um a filmmaker yesterday

00:21:04etiquette um torrence about artificial intelligence um because i didn't even remember that response

00:21:13that you gave when it pertained to artificial intelligence but i had a conversation with 19 keys

00:21:20about two three years ago for black enterprise as well where he was definitely champion

00:21:26artificial intelligence and my whole thought process has always been especially when you see the

00:21:32negative aspects or at least when i see the negative aspects of artificial intelligence you know these

00:21:39machines and computers learning us and then taking over and i'm still scared of that because like i said

00:21:44anytime i bring it up i see um arnold schwarzenegger they're trying to save the you know humankind

00:21:53what you made me think of sorry to cut you off there's um an excerpt from an episode of math hopper's my

00:22:02expert opinion with 19 keys where he like really drills down on artificial intelligence and things to explore that i

00:22:11think is really great for you know your audience who might be interested in ai that's a really great

00:22:16conversation folks at youtube i'm 90 sure that um he we probably have the same conversation and actually

00:22:23he appeared on my podcast as well um so i'm going to look at i'm going to listen to it again because we

00:22:29we spoke for about an hour or so so i know he dropped some gems and the funny thing is that i'm 90 sure

00:22:36that it's probably along the same things because i don't know when the math hopper um have met matt

00:22:41hoffer interview dropped or how this year or late last year so they may have evolved from like i said

00:22:49two three years ago when he first spoke about it but there was an intensive conversation because i'm

00:22:54sitting there like nah son i'm not doing it but then the chat pt gpt comes out then all of this now

00:23:04apple has apple intelligence microsoft has microsoft copilot and everything is using artificial

00:23:11intelligence now my question to you when it comes to that because now it's literally like it's been

00:23:16here and it's not going anywhere and i i know i know how to ask 19 keys specifically i'm like well what

00:23:23about the people that use it for nefarious reasons people that's trying to get ahead without actually

00:23:29doing it um i guess it's along the same lines of like the i don't want to concentrate on the

00:23:36negative aspects of it but i know that i have to look at the positive aspects of it but what do you

00:23:43say to people like me who see artificial intelligence not as a tool not as a hindrance but um as a way of

00:23:54cheating and when i say cheating i mean for people who use it to try to get ahead of others and not

00:24:01necessarily using whatever intelligence or intelligence whatever they have or creative expression because

00:24:08like i said my views are changing towards that because of the conversations i've been having

00:24:12recently right and as i said i wouldn't i wasn't even anticipating this until i read that but let's

00:24:19stay on that because i want to hear your thoughts because i'm pretty sure in your dealings like that

00:24:24does come up or it it may have been used or whatever so what do you say to somebody like me that's like

00:24:30okay well like like why should i deal with artificial intelligence from a negative not another negative

00:24:38from um from a standpoint of i'm doing well without it right right right okay well first off let me just

00:24:47say your views are people who are currently view ai in that way it's like uh a hack that people are using

00:24:54to cheat their way through the system it's a hundred percent valid and yes people are using it to cheat

00:25:00that's just a fact it's just what it is um but what i'll say is like one just in abstract

00:25:08with any tool you can use it for good or bad a hammer you can use it to hammer a nail or you can

00:25:15you know hit somebody in the head with it right um so that's one thing but on the other side to be a little

00:25:21more uh nuanced about it um artificial intelligence is prevalent in so many ways

00:25:30right that you might not or the average person might not think about so for example right now

00:25:38chat gpt is probably the most ubiquitous ai tool right but for me as a marketer especially on the

00:25:46social media side artificial intelligence is prevalent in all of these digital marketing

00:25:52platforms it has been for like a decade and if you're not thinking about it through that lens i get why

00:25:59you know it would it wouldn't make the most sense but like things like um when you send an email out

00:26:06and you're using the time optimization schedule and tools that's ai you know when you post an ad on

00:26:13facebook and it sends it to the right people the lookalike oh that's ai you know what i mean so especially as a

00:26:21marketer so if i had to like break myself up into parts um as an artist i understand the threat to

00:26:28artists especially if you're like a filmmaker you know the filmmakers are about to be in some deep

00:26:35doo-doo in the coming years with the advancement and voice prompted you know films but if you're a

00:26:41marketer or or if you're any kind of and work in any discipline and you're using digital marketing tools

00:26:48ai is embedded in all of it and so there's no way around it and so that's where i say on the positive

00:26:55side if you learn some of these tools it can help you expand your brand reach it can help you like get

00:27:04in front of audiences that you wouldn't have gotten in front of using your own brain because you can't

00:27:09really outthink or outpace the speed of artificial intelligence so that's what i'd say like regardless

00:27:16of your discipline if you learn the tools so you can amplify the work that you're doing

00:27:23i think that's the positive side of ai i i've got it and i've had to like when i when i spoke to

00:27:30advocate yesterday he actually gave me a suggestion i'm like i never thought about that because um

00:27:36even when i do like like if i do a summary of my interviews it's like i can act like he explained

00:27:44he's like you can put the transcript into and they can write up i'm like see i didn't think about that

00:27:50because like i said and that is beneficial because as opposed to me having to read and listen to

00:27:55everything and if it's an hour i mean that's an hour plus because i'm gonna have to stop and you

00:27:59know whatever and it's going to be 30 seconds yeah so it's like i'm like okay well i guess that does

00:28:06make sense and then i have to think about it i'm like i've been using gps for years gps is artificial

00:28:11intelligence so it's like like like you said so now i have to alter my way of thinking when it comes to

00:28:18because like i said in the back of my mind like the the the robots and and the terminator are like

00:28:26looking at me like yeah we waiting for you we waiting for you and i haven't i haven't gotten

00:28:30over that yet but the more conversations i have and now today talking to you um and i'm glad that i

00:28:37did look back at the article and saw that because i wasn't thinking about it but now that i'm thinking

00:28:43about it it does make sense but like i said but my experience when when people have used artificial

00:28:50intelligence is to cheat the system and i never want to be you i i don't want anybody viewing me

00:28:55like or questioning i've even seen um like when you do certain things and you're filling out paperwork

00:29:02it asks you did you use any artificial intelligence while filling this out and things of that nature

00:29:09and i'm like wow like it's so ingrained where we you have to ask now and even when i post on youtube

00:29:16it asks like i forgot the exact question but it loses that where it's like well did you like basically

00:29:21like did you get any help doing this or is there anything in your video that was generated not by you

00:29:29and i'm like so we like we're there and it's like we're not getting anything away from it but

00:29:34now i have a different mindset going forward where now i can utilize this for my benefit and it's not

00:29:41cheating because if it's helping me get to my destination quicker just like gps because you

00:29:47know we came up in a time where there's actual physical maps like my parents used to drive down

00:29:51south we'd have physical maps and if you missed that exit you'd have to map your way back to get back

00:29:58online now it's like gps the gps does it for you it's like you missed that exit idiot get back on this

00:30:04and do this you know so it's like now i i have to look at it in that way and i'm glad like i said

00:30:09we're having this conversation i want to circle back a little to social media as well because we both came

00:30:16up at a time where social media was just getting there and now social media just like artificial

00:30:22intelligence is a fabric of our life yeah i mean and i know that of course social media has helped

00:30:28you in your work because social media has helped me in my work because i i'm a natural promoter i used

00:30:33to do parties i i got on facebook and um twitter strictly to promote my parties and my articles when

00:30:42i started writing for the industry co-sign so what um social media like i said i know it helped you but

00:30:52if you take away social media how did the job get done in these times and i know that it's kind of a

00:30:58difficult question because we've been surrounded with social media for so many years but i also think

00:31:04that like we've come from a time where i used to produce i used to produce music so when i started

00:31:11producing we had to go out and buy the reels we had to book the studio times we had to rehearse

00:31:16because i was involved in r&b rehearse before we even stepped into the studio now you need a phone

00:31:23some equipment that you can download and you can have a song on the radio literally within an hour

00:31:28so like what are your thoughts on the the social media being an advantage for your work as well as is

00:31:37there any hindrance to it as well because i do also know that there are things in social media that can

00:31:42work against us because of social media yeah absolutely i know it's a loaded question so i

00:31:49apologize these questions come up as i'm talking so so you're talking to somebody who's like um you know

00:31:56an anti-social media social media marketer right so what i what i mean by that is like i'm super private

00:32:03like you know i don't put a lot of my personal life out there like you ain't gonna see pictures

00:32:08of my family i'm kind of weird like that but my day job requires me to know all of the ins and outs

00:32:15of social media and what works and what does not work and so using social for business and for work

00:32:23purposes primarily um it's such a game changer right because you can reach so many people with your brand

00:32:31or with the work or products or services that you're trying to get out there there's never been

00:32:37uh a system like it in history right and especially if you're uh an aspiring entrepreneur there's never

00:32:47been a better time in history to inexpensively or even with no money now because you can create mock-ups

00:32:55online of your products and just put it out there so you can literally go in with little to no money

00:33:00and you can leverage social media to create a booming empire these days so that's something that

00:33:09you know i think about it sometimes and of course you know hindsight's 20 20 but i think about the

00:33:14hustle of like our generation and then like previous generations like if we had the same mindset that we

00:33:21have now and but we had social media back then we'd probably all be like billionaires now right now you

00:33:29know the worth the work ethic and ideas about work and things have changed i think a lot for the

00:33:34better with the newer generations but they don't necessarily have the same work ethic or hunger that

00:33:40we used to have so i feel like even though there's a ton of people making so much money off of social

00:33:46people still aren't even fully leveraging social media the way they could to their advancement and it's

00:33:54because and i think i alluded to this earlier so much now of social media is about you as a person

00:34:02like you know you're like you're not even fully a person if you're not on social media like you almost

00:34:08don't exist if you're not on social media and so because of that so many people fold in their self-esteem

00:34:18with social media and how people receive them or perceive them on social media so that's the

00:34:26negative part that i don't rock with at all like my self-worth is not hinged upon my social media

00:34:33followers or how many likes i got and all that but you have these young people coming up where their

00:34:40social media persona is one in the same with their actual self capital s on the self right so that's

00:34:48where i think um there's the most downside and negativity where you have a lot of the newer

00:34:55generations who were born and raised on social media who how they feel about themselves are tied

00:35:05into how they're received on social and that's kind of messed up yeah and and it's sad because as you

00:35:12said i mean it's been reported suicides and attempted suicides because of and it has to do with cyber

00:35:19bullying because that's a different subject or itself but the fact that you know i have my i have

00:35:24i've had my profile up for over a month and i only have two followers as opposed to somebody who isn't as

00:35:31intelligent or looks as good has a million followers and then it does work on the psyche because

00:35:36i've had conversations with people it's like ah well i don't do that because this that and the other and i'm

00:35:41like i'm glad i don't have that mindset because like my i don't have a million followers but you

00:35:47know i i've reached a million people i mean like through whatever means i have but as you stated i'm

00:35:53not basing my worth on what my online persona is because i think that we all even if we act like we don't

00:36:02well i shouldn't say we meaning like everyone but collectively for people who are online on a regular

00:36:08basis where you know we based our i guess everything based on all our persona we present

00:36:15now it's funny i say that because i'm cedric thornton but i also go by big said but i always tell people

00:36:22there's a difference between cedric thornton and big said but big said was you know who i'm still

00:36:29it's still one of the same but um i view big set as somebody who's

00:36:34outgoing and does this thing and promote parties and do this many things a people person but cedric

00:36:40is more laid back because it's like there are times where i don't want to deal with people there are

00:36:44times where i don't want my camera and even when i used to do interviews back in the publication i used

00:36:48to work at there were times i would do interviews with celebrities and i would be off camera when

00:36:53everybody's trying to be on camera with the celebrities and i'm like listen this is their time even with

00:36:58this particular um platform like it's not about me because there are times where i'll have my hair

00:37:04out or whenever and i don't care how i look in that aspect because my thing is it's about milando right

00:37:10now so you know my focus here my purpose here is to make sure that i get people to know and learn

00:37:17milando is not how good i look or how my face is or no now of course i'm not going to come out here

00:37:24looking like i just came up the street like you know but um i say all that to say that it is kind

00:37:30of like sad that especially with the kids coming up today where everything is based on what people

00:37:37do online and even like there are kids out there who are getting killed because they're putting up a

00:37:43persona of being some street guy knowing damn well that they're not in the streets but then when they're

00:37:47approached in the street then the the success of what they presented becomes their failure right so

00:37:55i definitely agree with what you're saying when it comes to that aspect so yeah and one thing i like

00:38:00to tell artists all the time when i'm workshopping or doing one-on-ones with them is like to not get

00:38:06caught up in the numbers on social right because you i mean you've been in this business for a long time

00:38:13there we we both know a lot of broke and struggling influencers right they got the numbers but it's

00:38:20not reflecting in their bank accounts so i like to let artists know like when you're marketing yourself

00:38:26like really focus in on your target audience and the people that support you it doesn't matter if you

00:38:32have a hundred followers or ten thousand followers what really matters most is your conversion right so

00:38:39those hundred followers you have if you have an event or you're you're trying to sell tickets are

00:38:44they going to show up are they going to buy tickets if not what does it matter how many followers you

00:38:49have right and it's so funny you said it because i've said to people i'm like if i have an audience

00:38:55of a hundred and fifteen buy the product but i have an audience for a hundred thousand and nobody buys

00:39:01it like does it does it really matter at the end of the day because you know and especially if you

00:39:06have an audience that actually wants to hear you or see you and and and i stress that to people like

00:39:12you know because i have conversations with people as well actually you just went into something when

00:39:16you said you were speaking to people um because that's one of the things i had written down as far

00:39:20as you doing panels and things of that nature like um how did it feel when you are able to help people

00:39:28through the knowledge you've gained over the years the experience you've gotten and able to pass it on

00:39:34to people um whether it's online whether it's through your book or at um panels and things of

00:39:41that nature like what what what goes through your mind when you're actually giving game to people in

00:39:47order to help them are they coming to you for for the keys to try to be successful and the only reason

00:39:54i said to try to be successful because we all can be successful but there's always different levels so

00:39:58when i say try i don't want to make it seem as if if you're not successful like if i'm not successful

00:40:03like milando does that mean i'm not successful and that's not really the case so that's why i i phrase

00:40:09it the way i phrase it so excuse me for saying it like that yeah success is means it has a different

00:40:14meaning to all of us based on our life goals and stuff right um but yeah man i feel great doing this

00:40:22work i think um it makes me think about so i have a mentor um dr dale allender um he's at sacramento

00:40:30state university um lifelong educator um earlier in my career as a marketer he really encouraged me

00:40:37and pushed me to get into education and consider teaching and i always kind of resisted it um i don't

00:40:44know what the stigma was about being a teacher you know is in my mind or whatever i guess because we

00:40:49always hear about teachers being overworked and underpaid um but it feels great to be in this

00:40:55space where i am an educator now um because i've been doing this so long it comes second nature to me

00:41:04right so it's like i do have moments of challenge when i'm coaching and artists will bring up something

00:41:11that i hadn't thought about or they'll ask me a new question like oh i love that because it helps to

00:41:15stretch me but for the most part i've been doing this so long i've seen almost all of it like

00:41:21there's not too much in marketing or in the arts that i haven't experienced so it feels great for me

00:41:27to help dispel some of the mysteries for artists um and to help to help them struggle less with learning

00:41:36the things like fast tracking them giving them best practices that took me years to learn i love

00:41:42shortening the amount of time it takes for people to figure things out and um especially like when

00:41:50i'm with when i'm talking with younger artists um i always like to think about it like i'm a time

00:41:58traveler and if i were to like come back and give some game to my younger self and i only had a little

00:42:06bit of time to do it what am i going to drop on you before i gotta leave you know so yeah i love

00:42:12uh educating people on how to market themselves um whether in person virtually and through the book

00:42:20and i hope that shines through when i'm working with folks no doubt and it's funny it's um i'm glad

00:42:28just earlier when you said artists i'm glad that you mentioned like um writers and just anybody because

00:42:35like people have the misconception that artists are just you know just draw or whatever where you know

00:42:41i'm an artist you know as a writer and um but i do have a question when it comes to art because

00:42:47you've also curated and to give the people that may may have that may be may not have the exact

00:42:55definition of curation what does it mean to curate you know either an exhibit or a show or performance

00:43:03whatever and um i know you've done it before like and what do you get out of it when you do curate

00:43:11whatever it is when it comes to the actual art that you're working with or dealing with yeah so um

00:43:18curation is essentially when a person selects certain artists or certain works of art or certain types of

00:43:28works of art to display exhibit write about or speak about right and i think most curators

00:43:39i'm not a career curator even though i've curated you have some people where they are curators capital

00:43:45c that's what they do for a living most curators are interested either in a specific type of work

00:43:53a specific period of work um a specific um theme of work and sometimes all of the above

00:44:02right um and i think what folks get out of it is basically

00:44:09having an opportunity to explore your passions through curating different works of art you know if

00:44:18i had to like make it make sense in the most universal way i can think of it's like if you had

00:44:24to create a playlist of your favorite songs for someone or in our day if you had to make a mixtape

00:44:29for somebody right that's your curating art you know and so and there's like a joy that comes in

00:44:36it's like oh i love this song and then you have the songs like okay let me put it in this order because

00:44:41i want it to flow like this that's essentially what curators do even for visual art as well um so yeah

00:44:47curating is fun i've done it a few times and it's always great to see it come together um and usually

00:44:56sometimes you have curators that will curate a show solo but a lot of times curators are working

00:45:03in partnership either with other curators or the gallery owners um so it's also like cool to like

00:45:10share your curatorial mind and vision with others and get their feedback and bounce off people creatively

00:45:16when you're putting together um experiences artistic experiences for people that's what you're doing

00:45:22as a curator you're creating an artistic experience um and so it's always like a great feeling to to

00:45:29participate in something like that i just learned a new word curatorial i never knew that that i never

00:45:38heard anyone use that so that sounds like oh i'm gonna i'm gonna do a mixtape and call myself a

00:45:44curator cutatory you'll get it you'll get it exactly um oh what do you feel um actually i want to go i

00:45:56want to go back to your book and i want to ask because i know people have different time tables are

00:46:03are when it comes to writing how long did it take you to write your book and when you were writing it

00:46:09i know that there are people that have written books based on what they're doing in the time allotted

00:46:20or they just laser focus what was your experience when you did write the book how long did it take

00:46:25you to write it and like did you literally did you have to take time off like mentally to actually

00:46:31write the book or was it something that was done over time where you would just add add and then put it

00:46:36all together so i'd say it took me just over a year technically to write the book um i started

00:46:45writing the book right after i lost this job unexpectedly that i had so it essentially freed up

00:46:51a lot of time for me to put the book um and it all it was also a very grounding thing for me um because

00:47:00when i lost that job i was kind of like all right trying to figure out my next move and then it was like

00:47:05well i always wanted to write a book and now i have the time to do it so i could focus this energy

00:47:10and this sort of like you know insecurity i was dealing with at the time i could kind of push it

00:47:15to the back of my mind and focus on something creative um and i'd say for the most part

00:47:23the way i constructed it was i started with the foundation of um there's this core presentation on

00:47:31marketing for artists that i've done for years now with new york foundation for the arts so i started

00:47:37with that as like almost like an outline for the book um and then i fleshed it out from there and um

00:47:45just in terms of putting it together i had never done long form writing you know most of my career i

00:47:50of course as a marketer i'm doing a lot of writing but writing as a marketer is very different from long

00:47:56form writing so i did a lot of studying on youtube i watched a lot of writers i watched a lot of

00:48:02independent publishers because i also said to myself um i didn't want to go like the amazon route

00:48:09i didn't want to necessarily pursue like a book deal and you know when you're talking about being a

00:48:14marketer in the arts field you're talking about super niche right i'm a niche within a niche within a niche

00:48:21and so i knew my audience wasn't necessarily the widest audience and in writing the book also and i

00:48:28might be jumping around a little bit um i didn't write the book with the expectation of being a new

00:48:34york times bestseller or getting rich off of the book i knew that it would have a reach too because that

00:48:43when i first started writing and i was like do i not talk target artists so i can make it as wide of a

00:48:49reach and make it as attractive to as many people as possible because the best practices in it can

00:48:55apply to anyone but then i said you know what i've worked the majority of my career in the arts let me

00:49:00lean into the niche and serve this audience that i've been serving through the work all this time

00:49:06and so in writing the book i really wanted to focus on helping artists and my other sort of goal

00:49:12was to more deeply establish myself as an expert in marketing in this niche right um so yeah uh and

00:49:22i'd say like it wasn't like a smooth year and change where i just wrote straight through and put it

00:49:28together you know because life be life and so i had all kinds of things happening um that broke up the

00:49:35experience of writing it but whenever i could dedicate the time to it i just jump back in

00:49:41and then i'd say lastly um i soft launched the book at the face-to-face conference this year which is um

00:49:50one of the largest conferences for arts educators in new york city it's hosted by the new york city arts

00:49:56and education roundtable uptown at the cuny school where you go to learn how to be an arts educator arts

00:50:03teacher um and so i had that as like a deadline right so i'd say that last three months before

00:50:11the conference started that's when i really like zoned in i wasn't going out exactly exactly and so

00:50:18it was like one of those things too where it was like dang this this is probably going to like not be

00:50:24like the most coherent you know you know you start you know getting self-conscious and insecure

00:50:29yeah and then i said to myself you know what it might not be perfect some of my writer friends

00:50:35might even think it's trash but i'm putting this book out on deadline for better or worse

00:50:40i can come back and clean it up in additional editions if i want but i'm this is going to be in

00:50:46print by the time this event launches and and it did and that's where we are congratulations on the

00:50:55success of you know finishing the book and then actually putting it out but under there's always

00:51:00stages and like i said just being around knowing that your intent could be something and then life

00:51:04just says not yet you know so so congratulations on that and and i know it's still early but do you

00:51:12have plans on doing another book and and the reason why i ask that question is because there are people

00:51:17that's like i'm good uh you know this is that and you know i don't know if you've thought or or

00:51:23there's anything else left that you would want to do you know when it comes to writing a book yeah

00:51:29well i'm not um i won't say like it's just i have a sense of urgency about it because i don't yeah but

00:51:35i do see myself um writing again one i think there are opportunities to do say maybe every five years

00:51:45an updated edition of the same book because the technology is changing like rapid fire nowadays

00:51:51it's insane so that's sort of like an intention we'll see how it plays out to like every several

00:51:59years to do an updated edition based on new technologies and new realities on the ground

00:52:06um and then i'd say the last thing is um one thing that i'll present on in my workshops or in my one-on-one

00:52:15coaching sessions that i don't include in the book that i'm thinking about writing around is pr you

00:52:22know public relations you know it's something you know all artists want to know i like how do i get

00:52:27more press about my work um and even though it is a a sub discipline of marketing it's a thing fully into

00:52:36itself that i felt like i couldn't do it justice baking it into this book so there may be some opportunity

00:52:43there in the future it could be like a datum but um i i've actually i mean people have actually um

00:52:51suggested that i write books and i i tell people well in in all actuality i i'm pretty sure that i

00:52:59will and the funny thing is that when when i use the excuse of not having time people call

00:53:05bullshit because it's like you know even a paragraph even a paragraph every couple of weeks can actually

00:53:13be like even a short book within a year you know in theory so but um there were there were probably

00:53:21two or three things that i would write if i were to i already have a title and i try not to say too

00:53:27often because somebody might try and steal it but um the title of a book based on like what i've done

00:53:34specifically in the career within the entertainment industry the um the attempted assassination of big

00:53:41said and um great title the reason why and and for me what people don't understand well of course you

00:53:50understand actually that people don't understand but people on the outside don't understand that

00:53:54you are faced with challenges almost on a daily basis in theory um where you know you doubt yourself

00:54:02like or obstacles are placed in front of you and you're always trying to figure out what you need

00:54:07to do in order to not even succeed but to continue because those are two different roads succeeding

00:54:13but also continuing doing what you're doing on your road to success right and and i know that's not

00:54:20just um correlated to just our industry that's general but especially in the industry where it's so

00:54:28elevated and so publicly you know glorified that i think that added pressure you know doctors do and

00:54:37are more important than what i do but their careers are not put up on a pedestal like my career might be

00:54:42because i cover a celebrity or i cover in a war show when a doctor is actually saving and extending lives

00:54:48so that's what i mean when i say that but the reason why i'm like to attempt assassination because

00:54:53those type of things kill a lot of people and i mean metaphorically of course so it's like but i want

00:55:01people to look and see that what i've done and of course talk about a lot of things that would have

00:55:08and have killed other people and they're directed to do something within the entertainment business

00:55:15where they either quit or they got stopped and then they they couldn't go on i have so many hills and

00:55:23mountains and hideaways and things of that nature that i think that i can give people some good advice

00:55:31and suggestions when it comes to overcoming things because i've been through a lot and even though i'm

00:55:36always smiling and people think that i'm i'm always good it's like in theory i'm always good because

00:55:41there's always people doing bad but at the same time that doesn't mean it's easy and i want people

00:55:46to realize that just because it's not easy and you know we hear that it's a cliche it's not going to

00:55:51be easy so but the thing is not many people give examples unless it's publicly known or like they have

00:56:00to and i just want to like i said so when i thought of that name i'm like that would be perfect for that

00:56:05and i also want to write a book about staying relevant in anything you do because for me it's never

00:56:11been about making the most money because if that's the case i failed miserably but to me it's about

00:56:17staying relevant because um even when i took a step back i was still able to do whatever i wanted to

00:56:24do within the industry and i'm still able to do and um people have to realize that sometimes especially

00:56:30with ai social media the changing technology you've got to find a way to stay relevant and you know even

00:56:37though i haven't embraced artificial intelligence i'm still relevant in a way where i still have an

00:56:44audience and and like i told you before we started filming some people actually listen to me i don't

00:56:50need all people to listen to me but some people actually listen to me and i think that um that's

00:56:56a skill set in itself because i know a lot of people who are definitely more intelligent more talented

00:57:02um but this is something that didn't keep them and i like it to the the entrepreneur who can't function

00:57:10in a company in a structured corporate company and can't really do much but when they go on their own

00:57:17they thrive so much in the opposite where you have somebody who's risen the ladder in in their companies

00:57:24when they go off their own they can't do it and people don't understand that like different skill sets

00:57:30is what makes things happen as opposed to anybody following the same rule because like in the

00:57:35corporate world i'm never going to i'm not i'm going to say i'm never going to do good but i'm

00:57:40not going to do i'm not going to do it in a way that somebody i may be poor to or maybe working with

00:57:45me may want me to do it because i'm always going to think differently and i think that's that's what set

00:57:50me aside from anybody else that's basically done anything and i think we also have that mindset as far

00:57:55as what we do but people also get caught up in having to replicate the success of somebody else

00:58:01i don't think there's anything wrong with replicating it but you have to do in a way where it works for

00:58:05you because what works for milando is not going to work for for cedric and vice versa and once we

00:58:11realize that because like i said i should be richer but i don't look at it that way i really don't because

00:58:16like i said i'm still able to do things because i i've known a lot of people who are making six figures

00:58:22that can't even bag groceries today right you know for whatever reason so yeah but i hear you um

00:58:29i do appreciate your time i want to know i know you're you're about to work on something if i'm

00:58:35correct um well you have like a it's a lot going on right now um but i recently started serving as

00:58:46associate director of content marketing for morehouse college my alma mater um and what that means is

00:58:52i'm basically managing a really talented crew of creators in the department to produce all of

00:59:00morehouse's social media content um so as an alumnus i'm um very honored to do this and super excited i

00:59:08just started that um and just came in before commencement weekend we had dr cornell west ava duvernay

00:59:14um so yeah so far so good um and i'm also in the process of developing a social media of course for

00:59:23artists for the rutgers university mason gross school of the arts so super excited about that too i'm about

00:59:30to add professor to my multi-hyphenate um so yeah good things good things there are a couple other

00:59:37things brewing but um maybe we'll see that for the next conversation yeah definitely and this is one

00:59:44of the reasons why like i just felt i needed to talk to you because like even not knowing like i said

00:59:49what you were doing i'm like he's doing something or if he's not doing something he's about to do

00:59:54something so you know and like i said you know i visited you know when you had the agency out in jersey

01:00:01city you know i've seen your work you know we you know done things together so i do appreciate the

01:00:07things that you've done and what you're bringing to not only the marketing field but to the world in

01:00:12general because um you know people people thrive off of what other work other people do that they can

01:00:20benefit from and of course that can go anywhere as far as benefiting because listening to you it's

01:00:26beneficial because like i said i know that um now with the artificial intelligence like i said people

01:00:32have been like go ahead go ahead i'm like i don't know like you know trying to push me in the water and

01:00:36i can't swim but like i said just hearing different aspects of it and talking more about it and like i

01:00:41said it was unexpected because if i didn't look at the old article that wouldn't have been a question

01:00:46so and like i said and just to get your thoughts on it because like i said um i think it is important

01:00:52when even if we're experts at what we do to hear different views even if they even if they don't

01:00:58agree because at least for me i get a different aspect that i could probably use for my advantage

01:01:04even if it's negative so i know what not to do as opposed to everybody trying to do what somebody did

01:01:11and then the next thing you know like you missed the point because there's something you could have done

01:01:17that everyone else didn't do that would have put you on top and you know but um the

01:01:22clever agency milando i just want to like i'm trying to look over my notes to see if like

01:01:27i've you know covered everything that i needed to ask or just um oh actually you know what i see

01:01:34something that i did mr that i think is it's a good question being that you've been involved in

01:01:40marketing for so many years and even doing the art what do you feel is the most effective now like i said

01:01:47it might it might be an unfair question but i'm going to ask you anyway what do you

01:01:52think is the most effective tool for marketing ah yeah that's a tough one man um um well what i'd have

01:02:03to say is if i had to just choose one email email all day um even though social media is the most

01:02:14prevalent tool folks are using um email is still one of the most impactful marketing tools you can use

01:02:23i'd say even for my first print run of the book the majority of the books i sold was direct to consumer

01:02:31via email right you know social media you have no power over your audience if the if the platform shuts

01:02:39down all those thousands of followers you had they're gone right but the folks whose emails

01:02:44that you have where you can directly communicate with them that's real power that's power that's

01:02:50sustainable over the long haul so i'm always telling artists and emerging entrepreneurs like don't sleep

01:02:58on email like if you don't have a newsletter even if it's just a quarterly one once every four

01:03:05three four months or whatever have email in the mix and don't just lean solely on social media to

01:03:11market yourself yeah it's funny you say that because i don't know if you remember but at the

01:03:16time i had like one of the strongest or best email lists that that was my first form of marketing

01:03:22outside of just me being out and about and i just gave up on it and i could just imagine if i had

01:03:28kept up at it um what if any it would have led me as far as the marketing aspects because as you stated

01:03:36i've had i've had an aol account for lord knows how many years i still had that email yeah so when

01:03:43people are saying that they're trying to get in touch with me i'm like if you had any of my email

01:03:47addresses in theory you're still in touch with me because i got like about 15 email addresses right

01:03:53right yes people might not be on social media all the time they might cancel their accounts but

01:03:58people aren't like really getting rid of their emails too fast you can get on your phone so it's

01:04:03not as if like they have to log in or get into a platform and like i still have my hotmail account

01:04:10my aol account you know i mean of course the emails i have for my for my sites of course makes

01:04:16sense for you to have but the fact that i still have a hotmail and aol that i still use and yahoo

01:04:22um and i never just got rid of it because i've always said to myself that even if people don't

01:04:26really use those but if somebody is trying to get in touch with me it can't they still can you know

01:04:33in theory so i just you know i'm glad you said that um is there anything else that you have um oh

01:04:40contact information social media like how can people reach out to you if they're want to yeah so

01:04:46there's my website milando.com m-o-l-a-u-n-d-o.com there's the cleveragency.com you can also purchase

01:04:54the book in both places um and the only social media platform that i really use these days is

01:05:00instagram and it's the clever agency on instagram cool um and i i i could add on that you know anyway

01:05:10um but i do appreciate the time good luck with any and everything you do and oh one last question

01:05:15yes sir one last question what suggestion or advice would you give to anybody who wants to pursue their

01:05:21passion and become an entrepreneur learn everything you can about the product or service that you're

01:05:34trying to sell like become a master of that thing right you don't have to know everything about

01:05:40everything but know everything about that product or service that's where your your confidence will

01:05:46come from from and your ability to communicate about your product or service um and your ability

01:05:53and it'll improve your ability to sell and to to get your brand out there yeah just study study study

01:06:01watch all the youtube videos read all the articles read all the books and become a master in the

01:06:07thing that it is you're trying to sell cool once again thank you i appreciate your time your words

01:06:16i appreciate it we'll definitely connect in in future somewhere i might go to morehouse and watch you

01:06:24work or whatever something but um once again this is a big sad industry co-sign my friends are better than

01:06:32yours and if you don't think so i welcome you to invite me to see your friends and i will prove you wrong

01:06:42till the next time once again the industry co-sign out and thank you once again for tuning in

01:06:54the next time once again all right all right all right all right all right all right all right all right

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