00:00Right, now the Defence Secretary John Healy will tomorrow unveil plans to spend £1.5 billion
00:05on increasing Britain's production of artillery shells and explosives.
00:10Healy will make a big speech tomorrow, which is also expected to, by the way, he will be,
00:15I can't reveal all at the moment because it's embargoed, but there will be a big military
00:18announcement, which at half past ten I'll tell you all about.
00:22But it's expected that plans for six new bomb factories will also be announced as ministers
00:26publish a strategic defence review, and it's understood that the government wants to aim
00:30for an always-on approach to defence, meaning Britain's basically constantly ready for war.
00:36Healy says it's a clear message to Moscow, warning the UK is already under cyber attack
00:40and that the keyboard has become a weapon of war.
00:43Well, I'm delighted to be joined now by Labour peer and former Minister of State Baron Fulkes
00:47of Kumnuk. Lord Fulkes, nice to see you. Good evening.
00:50Hello, Ben. It's really great to be back with you once again.
00:54Thank you. I'm so glad to see you. I enjoyed our skirmish last time.
00:58Right, first of all, what do you make of the defence commitments here from John Healy
01:02and the Labour government? I mean, it looks pretty decent on the surface, right?
01:06They're very good. In fact, the only time that the United Kingdom has come anywhere near 2.5%
01:13expenditure on defence was with the Labour government. So we're getting back up to that
01:18under another Labour government. The Tories cut our expenditure on defence,
01:22although they pretend to be strong on defence. But after what's happened with the Russian invasion
01:28of Ukraine, it's only right that we should be doing this. And we should be making sure that we
01:34can combat attacks from Russia, whether they be cyber attacks or any other kind of attacks,
01:41physical. And of course, the important thing is that we really are making sure that we have these
01:52weapons as a deterrent to make sure that nothing happens. So they don't invade other countries.
01:59Russia doesn't, as it's done in Ukraine.
02:01My only concern is, Lord Fawkes, that the commitment won't take effect until after, what, 2030?
02:07By which point Labour probably, in my book, and you'll disagree, won't be in government.
02:13Oh, we will be in government. The way we're going, we're going to be in government for another...
02:16Exactly. The way you're going.
02:18...another period. But it will take some time. But given the Tories' record, it would have taken
02:22a hell of a lot longer. So we are doing well. And we're going to build up these factories producing
02:28arms throughout the whole of the United Kingdom. And that will create jobs as well as produce the
02:33ammunition. Because our ammunition stocks have gone down as we've supplied more and more
02:38ammunition to help the Ukrainians. And look at that fantastic way in which the Ukrainians
02:44have managed, in the last 24 hours, to deal with these Russian aircraft. Over 40 Russian
02:51aircraft destroyed in a brilliant attack by the Ukrainians. And that shows what can be
02:56done by good operations.
02:59Yeah, extraordinary video. I was reading the Ukrainians smuggled in the drones across the
03:03Russian border in some freight boxes and launched an attack which took out £9 billion worth
03:10or dollars worth of Russian air jets. It's brilliant and they're protecting the country.
03:15That's why it's so important that we protect our country. And we're working close with Ukraine.
03:21Right, let me move on. I want to speak to you about Lord Hermer. He needs to go, doesn't
03:24he? He basically called anybody in this country who wants to deport foreign criminals who shouldn't
03:30be here, paedophiles, drug dealers, whoever. He put them in the same band as 1930s Germany.
03:35Are people who want to deport foreign criminals Nazi, Lord Fox?
03:39No, and he didn't say that. What he said was that just as in Germany in the 1930s, there
03:46was, I think it was Carl Schmitt who suggested that there was a sort of pressure on one side
03:51for powerful government and on the other side, the rule of law. And the rule of law needs to
03:58be taken account of. And he was saying that people who wanted to leave the European Convention
04:03of Human Rights and the Court of Human Rights are doing the same kind of, making the same
04:10kind of argument that people in Germany did in the 1930s.
04:14Do you not agree it's a despicable comparison? He was just smearing millions and millions
04:19of Brits, hard-working, decent, honest Brits.
04:21No, he certainly wasn't.
04:23So you don't think he did anything wrong, Lord Fox?
04:25The only thing he said is he didn't choose his words carefully. He said they were a bit
04:30clumsily chosen. But he's absolutely right. We're looking at the rule of law now in the
04:35Constitution Committee of the House of Lords. And it's very, very important. Do you believe
04:40in the rule of law, Ben?
04:42I believe, I'll tell you what, I believe in the rule of British law. I believe Parliament
04:46is sovereign. And I believe nations should be able to run their own affairs without the
04:50meddling of international courts who nobody knows of. And also, just on Lord Hermit, you
04:56said that it was clumsy, but yet you agree with what he said. How was it clumsy, Lord
05:00Fox, when it was a pre-prepared, pre-written speech that I suspect he probably took a couple
05:04of hours to write and then re-read? You know, he's not an idiot. He's quite an intelligent
05:09guy. And then he delivered it. It wasn't some off-the-cuff remark.
05:15No, and he's apologised for the choice of words. And a lot of people make that. Look,
05:19Liz Truss every day is making a lot of nonsensical speeches.
05:22What's Liz Truss got to do with anything? She should be apologising every day. Boris
05:26Johnson should be apologising every day. Lord Fox, what have they got to do with anything?
05:30They're your friends, Ben. They're your friends. They're not my friends.
05:34Boris Johnson's certainly not my friend. But, Lord Fox, with respect, they've got absolutely
05:38nothing to do with this. This is the Attorney General, Keir Starmer's friend, his bezzy
05:42mate from North London. Keir Starmer, by the way, you want to talk about your party.
05:46Herma calling people Nazis, pretty much. Keir Starmer in January saying anybody... Hang on,
05:50let me finish a second. Keir Starmer in January saying that the Pakistani grooming gang scandal
05:55was a right-wing bandwagon. Then you had the... Who is the MP? Was it Andrew Gwynn up in
05:59Manchester saying he wished his constituents would die because they dared ask about bean
06:03collections? You've got a problem in your party, haven't you, Lord Fox?
06:06No, we certainly haven't. Because your reporting...
06:09That's all fine, is it?
06:11Your reporting is not accurate. I'll ask you a question, Ben. Can I ask you a question?
06:14Yeah. Your favourite party, the Reform UK party... Well, it's not a party, it's a limited company
06:20owned by Nigel Farage. They promised to have a policy on deportation of illegal immigrants
06:26by the end of May. Where is it?
06:29By the end of May? I don't know. I don't work for Reform. I'm not a Reform member.
06:33No, you do. You keep... Farage is one of your presenters, isn't he?
06:39I haven't seen Farage in months. I don't know what he's doing. Gloria De Piero is one of
06:43our presenters, so he's asking me about Labour policy as well.
06:46But you're supposed to be on the ball. You're supposed to know what's happening.
06:49What's happened to... Where is it? I don't know. I don't write Reform policy, Lord Fox.
06:53Come on. No, but you report it. Why don't you challenge? Why don't you get someone from
06:58Reform on and say, look, you promised to have a policy. You're complaining about all these
07:03people coming over in boats, and you've said you're going to show us how to deal with them.
07:07What is their policy on it? It doesn't exist. Lord Fox, with respect to you, you're very
07:11good at deflecting, talking about Liz Truss. I mean, who the hell knows what Liz Truss is
07:15doing these days? She's not in government. Reform aren't in government. Your Prime Minister
07:19constantly takes the mick out of them, saying they can fit their MPs in the back of a Black
07:23London taxi. And Boris Johnson's not in government. You and your party are in government, and your
07:29friend Sir Keir Starmer's making a big mess of it. No, he's not. He's doing a very good
07:33job. An exceptionally good job. Why are his approval rating so low?
07:37He's now respected throughout the world. He and Macron and the Chancellor of Germany
07:44and the leaders from other European countries are doing a fantastic job. And I think it's
07:52recognised. If you look, they were recently produced comparisons of Keir Starmer with every
07:58other leader, Farage. And he was way ahead of Farage, your friend and your presenter on your
08:06programme. My friend. All right, Lord Fox, last question. 1,200 unidentified young men from strange
08:11lands came across the channel yesterday. It's a dismal, shameful record. Up 30%, I think,
08:17year on year. So much for smashing the gangs, eh? Well, that's why I've asked you with a question
08:22earlier that you failed to answer. But reform aren't in government, Lord Fox. No, no, but reformed. Keep
08:27saying. I mean, you know, you're saying... Keir Starmer keeps saying, smash the gangs, smash the
08:32gangs. That's why he got elected. The gangs are smashing us. The migrants are smashing our borders.
08:37So what would you do about it? What would I do about it? Turn them back. Yeah. How would you do
08:41that? Just like Australia did. Speak to Tony Abbott. He actually gave advice to... He was in Number 10 a few
08:46months ago, I think. You put them in seaworthy lifeboat-style vessels and you turn them back.
08:51And I don't give a damn what the French say. And then what happens? The migrants stay in France
08:57and Britain flourishes as a strong, independent nation with strong borders and Brits prosper.
09:03So in 14 years, why did the Tories not do that then? Because they're useless.
09:08Oh, well, you should stand... We agree on that. You should stand... Yes, indeed. You should stand for
09:12Parliament, Ben. You'd make a very good minister. You've got all the answers.
09:16You've got all the answers, haven't you? Well, seemingly. I suppose that's why I'm paid the big bucks.
09:20Well, not really. Just a joke. You are. You are. You've paid a lot. How much are you paid, Ben?
09:24I'd like to know that. I can't tell you that. I bet you've paid a hell of a lot more.
09:27Never enough. Never enough. A hell of a lot more than a Member of Parliament.
09:30Well, probably not as much as your £300 a day that you get in the Lords. I'll tell you that.
09:33Oh, but a great deal more than that. A great deal more than that. I'm sure you do.
09:37All right, Lord Fox. Why don't you tell me? Why don't you... You know how much I get a day.
09:41How much do you get? Well, you're a public servant, Lord Fox. I went through a private broadcaster.
09:45Oh, dear, dear, dear. But we still should know, in the open honesty, if you ask me, Ben, and I ask you, if you're open and honest, you should let us know, shouldn't you?
09:56All right, well, look, make a deal with me. Come back next time and I'll let you know.
10:00Okay, I'll look forward to that. And thank goodness, thank goodness you've got Andy on your programme.
10:05So you've got at least a little bit of balance at last.
10:07Yeah, a little bit. All right. Thanks, Lord Fox. See you soon.
10:10Not at all, Ben. Look forward to the next time.
10:12Yeah, good stuff. Thank you. Right.
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