00:00Where does this leave Sir Keir Starmer? Why would Trump intervene like this, do you think?
00:03And what would the Prime Minister be thinking tonight, having read this front page?
00:06Firstly, let me say I'm a very strong proponent of free speech.
00:10You know, as Higher Education Minister, I defended the right of the Oxford Union to invite Nick Griffin from the BNP.
00:15So I believe in free and open debate.
00:18I also, with respect to Lucy Connolly, I do feel the sentence was disproportionate.
00:23But we have an independent judiciary in this country.
00:26They've reviewed it and stuck with the decision.
00:28But the idea that Donald Trump is a protector of free speech.
00:34Please look at what is happening in the United States, where he's banning journalists from the White House because they criticise him.
00:41Where legitimate green cardholders are being expelled from the country because they protested over Gaza.
00:49Where an academic with a visa turns up at the border and he's turned away because he's made comments critical online of Donald Trump.
00:56Donald Trump supports free speech when it's on his terms, but not if it's not.
01:01I'd like to address those points.
01:02So banning journalists from the White House press briefing isn't constraining free speech.
01:06It's like blocking somebody on Twitter.
01:08You can block them on Twitter.
01:09You can say what you want.
01:10You're just not invited to the press briefing.
01:12Don't say what you want.
01:12I'm sorry, if this government was banning news outlets from the Downing Street lobby, it would rightly be criticised and castigated.
01:19But that's what Trump is doing.
01:21You know, he only invites journalists.
01:24Why is he intervening now?
01:24I know you don't like Donald Trump.
01:25Why is he intervening with the UK, do you think?
01:27Well, one, he shouldn't be.
01:31This is a State Department statement saying they're monitoring the situation.
01:35I think they've had pressure from some of the far-right activists who are supporting this.
01:40Such as Charlie Kirk.
01:42Yeah.
01:42He's not far-right, by the way.
01:43I would say he's not far-right.
01:44All right, but others.
01:46And therefore, they're putting out a holding statement saying we're monitoring the situation.
01:49What makes far-right?
01:49Bill, am I far-right?
01:51Yeah.
01:51Oh, you're absolutely bonkers.
01:54No, no, I'm not.
01:55I'm far-right?
01:56Yeah, if you look at any classical...
01:57What makes me far-right, Bill?
01:58If you look in any classical political terms, the views you espouse, Adam, are far-right.
02:03You've just lost any credibility you ever had with the viewers.
02:06I'm far-right.
02:07Bill, I thank you.
02:08And this is what the Labour Party...
02:09Every week, you claim that you're a sage of public opinion with your finger on the polls.
02:14Because a few people come into your pub.
02:16Bill, you are deluded.
02:18You are utterly deluded.
02:19No, I think you're the one who's deluded.
02:20The audience are probably screaming at the telly right now.
02:23Bill, the reason why the Labour Party are absolutely tanking in the polls at the moment,
02:27because they have this vision that you have,
02:29that the bell curve of opinion is completely out of whack with reality.
02:33They think that if you care about immigration and you want to stop the votes
02:36and you want to bring down both legal and illegal migration,
02:39that makes you far-right.
02:40When actually, it probably puts you in the middle of the bell curve.
02:42Absolutely not true.
02:44Why am I far-right?
02:45Hold on, Adam.
02:46You keep interrupting, please.
02:47Stop, stop, stop.
02:48Why am I far-right?
02:48Stop.
02:49We can conduct this debate without raising voices and getting shouts here, OK?
02:52I've just been looking for being far-right.
02:54No, no, let's have it out.
02:55So tell me why I'm far-right, Bill.
02:57I agree.
02:58Let's have it out on a sensible level, though.
03:00Chloe, you have just said that the Labour Party is not committed to reducing immigration.
03:05That's not what I said.
03:06You get that.
03:07No, I said that the Labour Party think that...
03:10We had an explicit manifesto commitment to reduce immigration.
03:12The government wants to reduce immigration.
03:15I don't think that they genuinely want to make a concerted effort to do so.
03:18They are starting to wake up to the fact that this nation cares about immigration.
03:22But I think many people in the Labour Party still think that people...
03:26Right, the fact that you've had Labour MPs calling Keir Starmer out and calling him Enoch
03:31Powell for addressing concerns about immigration...
03:34A handful of MPs have done that.
03:35...goes to show that there is an issue with people in the Labour Party having a completely
03:40twisted idea of what makes you far-right and what makes you normal.
03:43There have always been a handful of Labour MPs, Labour activists, who will criticise the
03:49language of the Prime Minister about immigration or the policies to reduce immigration.
03:53Bill, can I say...
03:53But the party is committed to it.
03:55Can I say, when you call people like Adam Brooks far-right...
03:57I mean, far-right are people who have been recently nixed by the NCA for plotting to
04:02blow up mosques and so on with Molotovs or whatever.
04:04Those people are far-right.
04:06Name one of the things I've seen that's far-right.
04:08Having concerns about migration, name something that Adam has done that's far-right, please.
04:13Oh, there's all sorts of things that you...
04:14OK, so the other week, you quoted a statistic saying that 70% of the crimes that are committed
04:21in this country are committed by illegal immigrants.
04:24I didn't say that.
04:24Completely untrue.
04:25That is an absolute lie.
04:26Then go back to the coverage and observe it.
04:28That is an absolute lie.
04:29I've corrected you three or four times and made you look silly on this programme with facts.
04:33Well, likewise.
04:34Right?
04:34So...
04:35I've never said 70% of the crimes.
04:36So what proportion did you say?
04:38I didn't say that, Bill.
04:40Bill, what...
04:41Was it the story about sex offenders, illegal migrants are three and a half times more...
04:47Yeah.
04:48I quoted The Telegraph or something like that.
04:50Are they far-right?
04:51Is reform far-right, Bill?
04:52Yes.
04:53Oh, you're mad.
04:54You're absolutely mad.
04:55So, and your distinction...
04:57There's a distinction between extreme rights and far-right on any classical definition of
05:04the political spectrum, Adam...
05:06So, Bill...
05:06You know, I respect your views, but I disagree with them.
05:08Bill...
05:08But in classical terms, you're on the far-right.
05:10You've just labelled tens of millions of people in this country as far-right if you think
05:13I'm far-right.
05:14So, Bill, the latest poll of polls has reform on 30%.
05:17Are you saying that 30% of the country are far-right?
05:20No.
05:20No, because...
05:21Look, we have a fractured political system at the moment, and you keep talking about reform
05:25surging.
05:26Actually, you know, what the local elections demonstrate and what the polls demonstrate...
05:31No, they don't.
05:32Go back to 1981, and the SDP were at 51% of the polls.
05:36This is not surging.
05:37It's a system that is fracturing.
05:40All right, Bill, can I just clarify?
05:41So, you think Reform UK are far-right, but the millions of people who voted for them
05:45are not?
05:46Absolutely, because people were voting in protest.
05:50It was a protest vote.
05:52And look at the detailed polling evidence from More In Common, where they interviewed people
05:57who'd voted for reform, and their key message for voting reform was, we want to send a message
06:01to the government.
06:02Bill.
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