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Check out the the T-Mobile 'Inside The Locker Zoom' with Tommy Greene, and Mickey Morandini, Mike Missanelli. The guys break down current Phillies stats and trends, along with great storytelling from the 1993 Phils era.
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00:00All right, welcome everybody and welcome to Inside the Locker Zoom featuring two great
00:07members of the 1993 National League Championship team, the Philadelphia Phillies. We have Mickey
00:13Morandini and Tommy Green and some wonderful folks joining us thanks to our friends at T-Mobile,
00:19your ticket to the Phillies with America's largest 5G network. Now we're going to do this
00:25is when it's basically an open forum. Everybody that's on the chat can ask questions to Mickey
00:30and Tommy. I have some thoughts of my own. We'll talk about the team this year. We'll talk about
00:35their team in the past. So is everybody ready to go? I'm ready. Rock and roll. All right, let's
00:42first start out with getting opinions from the great Tommy and Mickey on this year's team and
00:48where the Phillies stand right now. It's an expanded playoff. It's a weird year, of course,
00:53and the Phillies look good early on at 9-10 and then they slump a little bit and then they come
00:58back. What do you see you guys right now with their future? I mean, I look at it right now. It's about
01:06health. They got to get healthy quick. I mean, but everybody needs to step up and, you know, it's
01:15just like Girardi said, you know, everybody is next up, next in line. We need help. You know,
01:20they got to come in and do the job. People from, you know, they bring him up from the
01:25squad in Lehigh Valley. They got to come in to do the job until we can get some of these
01:33guys back. You know, hopefully we can stay healthy.
01:35Let me ask you about the situation starting pitcher. I mean, you know how valuable that
01:39is and the Phillies looked like they were okay from one to three and then Howard gave
01:43them a little help. So right now, it's a tenuous situation. You got Nola and then you really
01:47don't know what you got. Wheeler's got the fingernail problem. Arietta pulled the hamstring
01:51the other night. Howard's now probably shut down for the rest of the season.
01:56Eppelin has been kind of waning a little bit. Do they have enough starting pitching to get
02:00this thing done?
02:02The way I'm looking at right now, no. You know, unless some of these guys miraculously
02:06get healthy and, you know, but I mean, I was counting on, I thought Arietta was the big
02:11guy, you know, counting because I was already chewing Nola and Wheeler in.
02:17But Arietta was the big guy I thought that needed to step up and be consistent. It had
02:25to be great. You needed to be consistent. That third guy is huge. You know, when you're
02:31talking about giving your team of three guys, you win three out of five all the time, you're
02:36making headway. You know, and that's sort of what we did back in 93. I mean, we'd never
02:41had more than two guys going bad at one time, it seemed like. If we were, the other three
02:46we're dealing with pitching well, then give us a chance to win. And that's what, that's
02:50what bottom line it comes down to. They, people got to come in and, you know, do the job now.
02:56Vince Velasquez, he's got, I mean, he's, to me, I think he's on his last leg a little
03:01bit, you know, because they're giving him chance after chance after chance. It's time
03:05to put up or shut up. Mickey, let me ask you, Tommy, of course, that especially applies
03:11in three starters when they get to a playoff situation. Right now, they don't have three
03:15reliable. Mick, when you look at their offense, they've been able to score some runs. But
03:19lately, the big guys now have kind of shut down a little bit. And we know what's happening
03:24with Maurice Hoskins, whether he might be out for the rest of the season. And Harper is in a
03:28major slump right now. And they're going, like, they're taking them out of the lineup.
03:32They're VH'ing them, the rest of them. When you look at players, you've seen players over
03:37a long period of a season. Does he look like he's hurting right now?
03:41Yeah, I've had that question asked a few times. There may be some health issues with him. I
03:47know he's hit the fence a few times and done some things. I mean, he plays hard, obviously,
03:52and he's been playing every day, but he just doesn't look the same. But he's going to have
03:59to play well if they're going to get into the playoffs. Because, you know, with Hoskins
04:04out, you know, hopefully Riomuto gets back in a day or two. But they need those big guys
04:09in the middle to carry this lineup. And, you know, we need Kingery to start hitting. The
04:15bottom of the order has been pretty good with Haisley and Quinn's had some nice moments.
04:20But we need a healthy and productive Bryce Harper if we're going to move forward with this
04:26team, no question about it.
04:27All right, I welcome all the folks. Also, one, a spot in the Zoom chat. If you guys
04:33have a question, just chime in and the Zoom will pick you up. Let me talk a little bit
04:40about Boehm, Alec Boehm, who he's reluctant to bring up, thinking that maybe he wasn't
04:45ready. But he seems to be a guy who understands how to hit up here. What have both you guys
04:51have seen with Alec Boehm?
04:53I tell you what, I've seen exactly what I needed to see. I mean, the guy's come up and done the
04:56job. I mean, he uses, I mean, he goes to all fields. And he's done an adequate job
05:02defensive-wide. He can move him. He's playing a good job at first replacing Hoskins right
05:07now. But he's showing me he's ready to play. I mean, that's, I didn't know why they hesitated,
05:12you know, to bring him up. Even think about it. Because I thought he was ready to begin
05:16with. He can hit.
05:17Yeah. Mickey, when you look at the way he's hit, you obviously came up from a minor league
05:22background and you had hit major league pitching. What has surprised you most about his ability
05:28to adapt to major league pitching?
05:29Well, I'm very impressed with his calmness. He seems like not very rattled out there, which
05:34is, you know, unlike a rookie. But for a big guy, his swing is very compact. It's very
05:40quick, very short ball. And that's why he's having success. And anytime you have a short
05:46swing and you use the entire field, there's not going to be a lot of weaknesses in your
05:50swing. So I think that's part of the reason Kings can't figure him out and figure out ways
05:54to get him out because he's got such a short swing. He uses the entire field. Occasionally,
06:00he'll show a little pop right now. And, you know, for about a week there, he really carried
06:06this team with some big hits late in the game to win games. So, obviously, he's going to
06:11have to continue to produce the way he's been playing.
06:16Mickey, let me ask you about that short swing because he looks like he's a big strapping
06:20kid who looks like he's got some power. The short swing, they may like to get a little
06:25more home run production out of him. Will he have to change that as he adapts to this
06:30league and change that short swing up a little bit and get more of a power swing?
06:34How can he hit in 320? You know, for me, I'm not as concerned with hitting home runs as
06:39just being an RBI guy and driving in runs. I don't care how you're doing it as long as
06:44you're driving in runs. And, you know, I don't know what he's hitting right now, but
06:47I know for about a week ago, he was in about 430 with guys in scoring positions. So, as long
06:53as he's continuing to do that, I'm going to be honest with you.
06:58Yeah, I got you.
07:00Let me add. I want to add to that as a pitcher on the side of what I look and see as a pitcher
07:06pitching to this guy. And Mickey hit it on the head. That short, compact swing, he can
07:11stay inside of it, use all fields. And I don't think there's nothing that needs to be done
07:18other than he just keeps doing his work and working during the offseason when he gets a
07:23full offseason. And he keeps maturing and getting stronger. That's all he needs. He's
07:28got that big frame to put stuff on. He can put on 10, 15 pounds of muscle and not even
07:34know it. And that's a huge, huge thing. I mean, he's a guy that drives pitchers nuts.
07:41I mean, those guys, I love the guy with a big, powerful swing. Those guys, to me, are
07:45more outs than others. That guy's not an out as much as the other guys are because he's
07:50willing to do the same, compact and short to it. And when he gets a little stronger,
07:53he's going to run into it and it's going to carry. It's going to go.
07:56As a pitcher, obviously, young kids come up, they don't get really a book on them. They
08:01don't get their weaknesses. As a pitcher, what would you attack? What do you think the
08:07rest of the league is looking at to attack him?
08:10Well, I mean, I know the way I went about things a little bit when you had a guy come up
08:15I would always come out early and watch guys if I hadn't seen them, if they were
08:20working, taking extra BP, see what they're working on. With that type of stroke that
08:25he's got, I mean, I'm going to challenge him in and see if he can do it to let him
08:28know. I've got to let him know I'm going to come in. I can come in on him and that
08:34he just can't look in one area to attack me. And I think that's the key to pitching
08:38a little bit. You've got to know how to pitch in. It takes time, you guys, to learn how to
08:45pitch in, I think. And then, I mean, to get these guys to notice things, to get them to
08:50open up the outside part of the plate to let them know they can't have both sides of the
08:54plate. And, you know, it's that cat and mouse. One day, I mean, he's going to struggle a little
08:58bit. As long as you mix your pitches up, that's the way I would attack him. And it's
09:02all about your mistakes. If I throw a ball in a good area where I want to throw it, I got
09:07a chance to get him out. And if he gets a base hit, you tip your hat to him. Now, if you hang
09:11one over the middle plate, you're going to get your running in, backing up bases. You
09:15know, you should get hit. But that's the game of baseball. Sometimes, I mean, I've thrown
09:18balls right down the middle to guys. And I'm asking, how did they miss that guy? I could
09:21hit that. But they did. And they pop it up for a swing and miss it. But that's just, I
09:27mean, that's the nature of the beast.
09:29All right. We have a question from Matthew, who is on the Zoom chat for Mickey or Tommy.
09:34Matt, you want to give you a question live or you want me to read it? Is Matt on the call?
09:39Yeah, there's Matt. Yeah, you can read it. You can read it.
09:42All right. So, Matt's question is, what do you guys, what do you think the Phillies need
09:47to do with Real Muto? And why is this contract situation lingering on?
09:54Well, it lingered on because of COVID for a while. We didn't know if we were going to have
09:59a season and he was going to be a free agent. And we didn't know what was going to happen.
10:05And then all of a sudden, he's hotter than heck. But, you know, you only hit free agency
10:11once pretty much in your career, one big time. This is his opportunity. So, he really has
10:17nothing to gain now. Signing right now. So, he may as well just play it out. Let the bidding
10:23begin. And, you know, the Phillies are probably end up going to have to overpay for him now.
10:29But I can't see them letting him walk. I mean, we see what Sixto's been doing down in Miami.
10:35And we need to have something here, you know, because of the trade. So, they're going to have
10:44to sign him. But I'm sure JT's counting the money up in his head. That's for sure.
10:49Oh, he's definitely driving that Ferrari right now. He's in the driver's seat, as far as that's
10:54concerned. I think. But just, hey, we want that guy to stay healthy. You know, I wanted
10:59to see him play. So, it's like, you know, the little nagging stuff. But COVID affected
11:04a lot of things. I thought they might have, might have could have gotten something, or
11:09trying to do something a little sooner. But, you know, with all this stuff happening, Mickey
11:14hit it on the head with being, you know, they're going to let it play. He's let it play
11:17out and test it, you know.
11:20Let's explore this a little bit. Because, you know, I've been told from some people that
11:23he is pretty perturbed by their lack of wanting to talk about the contract. They really haven't
11:30been talking to his agent at all. And that's not sitting well. Now, I think the Phillies
11:34taking this gamble here, thinking that the money for him as a catcher was not going to be out
11:41there to the extent that he wanted. So, that was a gamble. But now, the landscape has changed
11:47a little bit with the two New York teams. Because you've got the Yankees now, Gary Sanchez flopping
11:51all around down there. And you've got the Mets with this new owner who's a zillionaire.
11:56So, have they played this the wrong way? Because now, his price, if the Phillies are
12:00going to, I mean, they may have to go to $25 million a year to keep this guy.
12:05Well, that's what I heard, Nick. Yeah.
12:08Oh, it's looking that way. And they need catching up in New York. We know that. Especially the
12:14Mets. I mean, their catching has been abysmal. So, I don't know if JT's a New York kind of
12:20guy or not. But, you know, when you're getting paid, you know, $25 million a year, I guess
12:24you can learn to love New York. That's for sure. But, obviously, they're going to way
12:29overpay than what they would have paid him, say, you know, six months ago. That's for sure.
12:34Yeah.
12:34All right. Let's go back in time a little bit. Because, obviously, you guys played for one
12:39of the teams that the city loves and always will brand there and connected with people.
12:45So, the 1993 Phillies, the question I have for both of you guys is, what made you guys
12:53click like you did? And you clicked early that season. It wasn't like it, you know, it came
12:58out of nowhere. You guys, from spring training on, the way you started the season, seemed to
13:04have a special win. Try to explain that to us.
13:07What do you think? Mick, you want to go first with me?
13:09I'm going to bring – I always bring up your story, Tommy, in spring training.
13:13The first – and Tommy tells his story great, but I'll just do it real quickly.
13:17We had a big brawl against the Cardinals. And it really brought the team together, both
13:21pitchers and position players. And we really bonded from that point on. It was a huge brawl,
13:26guys getting thrown at in the head and things like that. And Tommy was on the mound at the time.
13:31So, he obviously can relive it pretty vaguely, or pretty good like it happened
13:38yesterday. Right, Tommy?
13:39Oh, yeah. I remember.
13:43So, give me the details, Tommy. What happened?
13:45All right. Yeah, it was obviously – you know, and the year before, Dave Hollins had
13:53been hit like 40 times or something like that. It was something ridiculous he'd been.
13:57But David doesn't move. He's like the stone man. He's in the box. He ain't moving.
14:02Well, we were facing the out of an Osborne, left-handed pitcher. And Dave's a switch
14:08hitter, so he switches over to the right side. He gets two strikes on him. He's 0-2.
14:14And this is the first time I've ever seen David on his back. I mean, he was on his back.
14:20There's a ball right up here in his ear hole. I mean, his neck. All right.
14:23He had to get out of the way. And he went down on his back. And the first thing I did
14:30was I looked at him right, and Dutch was sitting about a guy – it was a guy in between me
14:34and Dutch. I leaned back and looked at Dutch. He said, first guy. I said, you got it.
14:40And I went out there, and I was getting loose. You know what I said? I didn't even know who
14:45was coming up. It didn't really matter. You know? I mean, you know, I was going to attack
14:50the way I was going to pitch anyway. But it so happened to work out, it worked out to
14:56be the perfect scenario. Who was up to bat? Donovan Osborne, the pitcher.
15:01He's a left-handed batter. Dutch sits on the inside corner, not to be so obvious about it
15:07to the umpire. And gives me – he didn't give me the middle finger, but he sat down to one
15:13the inside. And Donovan was as far away from home play. His toes were in the box. That was it. His
15:22heels were outside the box. He knew – I mean, he wasn't taking a chance, but it didn't matter.
15:27I hit him – I hit him as good as you could possibly hit him. In the right way. I didn't
15:32throw it his head. I hit him right underneath his elbow and hit right in his rib cage right there
15:37and went straight down. The ball didn't leave the batter's box. I threw it as hard as I could
15:41and it got him good. And he walked – he was hurting going down to first and I was
15:49amped up and I walked the next guy. He started walking to second base and he didn't make it
15:55to second base. He crumbled. They had to come get him. They got him off. Put a runner in
16:01for him. I get a double play ball in the strikeout and get out of the inning. And the next time
16:05up, I get up. I'm facing a left-hander. They throw at me four times and missed me all four
16:12times down here in the right – you know, in the good area. And then the next time up,
16:16I faced another left-hander and this guy threw one over my head. And I ducked and I looked
16:22over – I looked over at the dugout where – because during spring training, the coaches
16:26and stuff stood outside the dugout a lot back then. And it was – who was managing?
16:33Sean. Joe Torrey and the pitching coach Red. We called him Old Red. He was – you know,
16:41Old Red Ass is what he was. And I looked at them. I said, if he hits me in my head, I'm
16:47coming there. You better handle it. You know? I mean, I'm a freaking pitcher. I hit their
16:53guy in the right way. You know? The next pitch he threw me, I hit a double off the
16:58freaking wall. And then I pitched seven minutes. Didn't give up any runs. That was
17:03my day to go up to 100 pitches. Interviewing the dugout. Had my back to the field. But
17:08the TV was up in the corner of the dugout in that little – that stadium. And Ricky
17:12Jordan come up and they hit Ricky. Ricky charged the mound. I threw the stuff down. There
17:18we go. Out on the field. And I mean, that's the way that game went and started. But
17:23you know, you hit about, you know, in spring training how this team gelled. And
17:27Mickey could vouch for all the guys that, you know, Lee Thomas and them did a great
17:31job of bringing in some guys that spring. Veteran guys. And we had good – we had a
17:37good mix of young guys there. And obviously veteran guys that were there too. But the
17:44personalities and off the bat, everybody clicked. And that spring training was one of the
17:52best spring training as far as just me gelling together. And I think – and that was just
17:56one of the games that made a difference. I think it was, you know, kind of bonded us
18:00even more. Because we were – I was told flat out by Dave Hollins before that game, you
18:05know, he said, Tommy, you were hurt a little bit last year. Do you want – yeah. I said,
18:09but I got a problem with as many times – many times I got hit last year and nobody
18:13taking up for me. He said, I know I got no issues with you. I knew you were hurt a lot.
18:16But he said, I'm just letting you know, do you want me in your corner or you don't?
18:21And that's all I needed to hear from David Hollins.
18:24I don't want that guy about a foxhole.
18:26It's really funny. You don't hear a lot of the way – that kind of ball today.
18:31But that's what kind of gilded you guys. You guys were all tough guys that cared about
18:38the game playing it the right way and playing it hard. And that was a big edge for you guys.
18:43Yeah, that was – I mean, that was just – it was a great story. Something I think
18:47needed to happen for a lot of us. I mean, it needed for me to happen. I mean, you got
18:51to go out there with a little bit of attitude, you know, and play. And I think that's what
18:55we had a little bit – Atlanta Braves had swagger. They expect they dressed to the part,
19:02you know, they wear the suits on the road. Yeah, they told – I don't think I saw
19:07Williams on the road. He wore – he always carried it over his arm. You know, we had to
19:13story one. You never saw him do things. We had – we had an attitude a little bit.
19:18Nothing bad, but, you know, we're going to play the game hard and the right way.
19:22And if you don't like it, that's all right. We don't beat you on the field. We'll kick
19:25your ass in the parking lot. You know, type attitude.
19:28Mickey, that's just me.
19:31Go ahead.
19:33We had the best clubhouse leader ever in Darren Dalton. Every player in that locker room had
19:39respect for him. And when you have a unity like that, and you can look at a guy like
19:43that to be your leader, I mean, he really brought us together as a team. He really did.
19:49And let's – talk about the offensive part, because, you know, you guys were a very good
19:53offensive team. A lot of people, I think, don't realize how good the pitching staff was
19:57that year. But what made you guys good offensively? You saw a ton of pitches. You wore pitches
20:02out. And it started from the top. I mean, you know, Dykstra would see a lot of pitches.
20:08But all you guys were like that, working counts and getting really good pitches to hit.
20:13Did you kind of glom onto that from all these guys like Kruk and Dykstra and all these guys
20:19that would see a lot of pitches? Is that how it shaped your at-bats also?
20:23I just think that was the philosophy of the team, and that's the type of hitting team we were.
20:28We liked to see pitches. We waited for fastballs up out over the zone. We had four guys walk
20:34over 100 times that year, I believe. And obviously, Lenny had an MVP year.
20:39But, you know, to have a year like we had, you have to have guys have career years.
20:44You know, Lenny had a career year. Dutch had a career year.
20:47Holland's had a career year. Schilling, Tommy had a career year.
20:52Ben Revere had a career year. I mean, we had guys have career years.
20:55But, you know, we won all kind of different ways. We won with homers. We won with speed.
21:00We won with defense. We won with pitching. We did the little things to help teams win.
21:06Yeah, Tommy, 16-4 that year, 3.42 ERA, 200 innings, 167.
21:12Mickey brought up Darren Dalton, Tommy. I know he's near and dear to all of us,
21:16especially here at the radio station doing the show with it all really well.
21:19And I know you have a really special bond with Dutch. Talk about that a little bit,
21:25the major impact he had on your life.
21:27Well, I'll tell you what, I can't explain it, I mean, enough. I can't tell the story enough.
21:32But, I mean, obviously, starting out with baseball, what he did as a professional,
21:38you know, on my professional side of things, for helping me grow and grow up as a pitcher,
21:43he challenged me, being that leader he was in the clubhouse.
21:46And, you know, me and Shield were younger. He challenged us to be better, you know,
21:52each time and try to do. I mean, you can't do nothing about your health a lot of times,
21:57but he made me a better pitcher to understand. I mean, I got a chance to play with Dutch,
22:03you know, when I came over in 92, when my last year was in 95, and it was a pleasure playing with him.
22:10I got to know Dutch more so after my career, obviously, and when he retired and stuff, we got closer,
22:19especially when I, he ended up running into my current wife now, up here near where we live,
22:28at Nebraska Steakhouse, went out at a function.
22:30And the way I tell the story is, my wife, I met my wife now, back in 1986.
22:38She was on spring break from her sinus, and I was in my first spring training.
22:42Her name is Wendy Darling. I was a big Peter Pan guy, Walt Disney, so that helped, I mean,
22:47we all remembered each other. It was 12 girls from her sinus, and a day's in,
22:52and that's where the Braves housed 130 minor league guys, the same hotel. So we met,
22:58so they got, she's got pictures of all us when we were young, and we were 18, 19 years old.
23:04And so that's when we first met, but she run into them at a function up here,
23:08and she went and asked Dutch about me, function, and he told her what was going on in my life,
23:19because I'd just lost my first wife to cancer. And she was, I mean, and it devastated her,
23:24because she knew we were the same age. She knows she must have been younger.
23:28And, but my thought was, you know, when I always tell the story is,
23:33what woman on the face of the planet goes up to Darren Dalton and asks about another dude?
23:40And I'm like, what is that? You know, I told that to my wife. I said, what were you thinking anyway?
23:45And, but no, she'd come back later. And, I mean, you know, Darren, Darren's got this side to him.
23:52I mean, he, I call it a sixth sense a little bit. I called it, that's what I called it.
23:56He saw something in her. He knew where I was at in my life, and she was telling me a little bit about her life.
24:03And, and at the end of the night, she came up, gave the card, said,
24:06you remember me by my maiden name, Wendy Darling. And here, here's my number.
24:11And he, and she touched him and he said, here's my, and he took the card and said, oh, wait a minute.
24:14Took out his phone, wrote my number down, gave it to her. And we don't give out numbers like that.
24:20So, he said, you tell Tommy, you text Tommy, tell him I told you to.
24:24Changed my life. He changed my life that night.
24:27I mean, and in a way I said it before he did, he saved my life, you know,
24:30because I couldn't be happier and in a better place now than I've ever been.
24:34So, that's how he gave my life.
24:36Yeah, great story. We have a question from Chuck for you, Tommy.
24:39And it's, Chuck says, I watched every pitch from you over the years.
24:45And your no-hitter in 1991 against the Expos was amazing to see.
24:49Was that the ultimate highlight of your baseball career?
24:52Or, you know, was there another one that stands out more than that?
24:56Oh, okay.
24:57I get this asked quite a bit.
25:01I'm going to tell you two reasons I'm going to say that.
25:08Ninety-three.
25:09For us to get to the pennant, the path, the whole course of the year was the highlight forever.
25:18I mean, probably the highlight the whole year.
25:21How many things have to go right for you to get that spot?
25:25And that was the last year you had to win your division card after that.
25:30You know, it wasn't no getting in.
25:31You had to win.
25:32And that's what was so special about that year.
25:35But I tell a story about the no-hitter a little bit.
25:39But people don't know because I was in the minor leagues.
25:42But I had three in the minor leagues.
25:44I had two outs, two strikes on the last guy and lost all three of them.
25:47A ball, double-A, triple-A.
25:51So I'd been to the last part and been to that part.
25:53Nothing in the big leagues like that.
25:55But I was happy I got that one there.
25:58But the game that really, I mean, you know, means so much to it was five days later.
26:06I threw the no-hitter.
26:06That was great.
26:07It changes your life.
26:08It changed.
26:08I mean, people remember that.
26:11But five days later, I pitched against the same team in Philly.
26:14They got another look at me.
26:16You know, I give up two hits in the first and one in the sixth.
26:19And I pitched a three-hit shutout.
26:22Three-hit shutout and didn't walk nobody in this.
26:24It was a validation game.
26:26And that meant more to me than, I mean, it was just invalidating things.
26:32I mean, they got four more looks at me, the same lineup,
26:34and they really didn't do nothing.
26:36Guys, let me ask you this question.
26:37It was asked by one of the guys on the Zoom chat.
26:40And it's about Curt Schilling.
26:42You can't find a player that evokes more mixed feelings, I think,
26:45in this town than Curt Schilling because, on one hand,
26:48he was just a killer when you gave him the ball to win a game.
26:51And now, I mean, he's kind of taking his life in a different direction.
26:55He's made a lot of enemies.
26:56So, the question is, was he – the question actually is,
27:01was he as much of an asshole in the locker room as I think he was?
27:07Now, I know him in a different direction.
27:09You guys know him in a different direction.
27:10But when you brought about Darren talking to you and talking to Curt,
27:13he talked to you guys a different way.
27:16What was the dynamic with Schilling in that locker room?
27:20Oh, I mean, being a pitcher, I mean, guys that know me,
27:25if you can't get along with me, you don't get along with nobody.
27:28You know, you just don't want to push me to corner
27:29and push them buttons too often to make me come out of that corner.
27:32But Schilling, me and him had a good relationship.
27:38We were able to talk.
27:40Schilling, if he got out of line or was going the other way,
27:43there was one guy in that clubhouse that got his attention, really, too,
27:47really, if you ask me.
27:49Danny Jackson would get him.
27:51But Dutch would, you know, because, I mean, you look at that team.
27:57We weren't a media-based team.
27:59You know, we didn't go hunting to be out there, you know,
28:03on the radio and go do different things.
28:05We weren't that type.
28:07Now, Schilling was.
28:09And that's where I think it kind of crossed some hairs, you know,
28:14got tangled up a little bit with some of the guys.
28:17You know, they didn't want to run in this trap too much, you know,
28:19because what happens in the clubhouse stays in the clubhouse type thing.
28:23Yeah, Mickey, you probably do.
28:24That's just what I feel in it, you know.
28:26Yeah.
28:27Yeah.
28:29You obviously had a social relationship with him for a lot of years.
28:33So, in a clubhouse, I guess he could be kind of bratty,
28:38and he did absorb a lot more attention than Tommy says the players were willing
28:42to go.
28:44You understand him, right?
28:46What is he?
28:47He's a sarcastic, opinionated person.
28:50But that drove him.
28:52I mean, that's what made him so good was his desire to be great,
28:56his desire to go out there and pitch nine innings and pitch complete games.
29:00And no one watched more video or prepared more for a game or start than Kurt Schilling.
29:08He was on that video every day for hours and hours,
29:13and he knew every pitch that he wanted to throw to every batter in every situation.
29:18And, you know, I know Kurt takes a lot of flack for being a bad teammate,
29:22but I'll tell you what.
29:23He was one hell of a pitcher, and he prepared to be a – you know,
29:27his job was to go out and do exactly what he did.
29:31He was sarcastic in the clubhouse.
29:34Sometimes, yes, he was an ass.
29:36But I'll tell you what, I'll take him on my team anytime.
29:41Oh, yeah.
29:41What was the making?
29:42Did you ever hear what – I can't remember what you – one of the GMs.
29:48It was Ed Wade.
29:49Ed Wade said.
29:50Ed Wade said.
29:51I mean, what was Kurt Schilling.
29:54He said when he pitched, he was a horse, and when he did pitch, he was a horse's ass.
29:58Yes.
29:58That's what he said.
30:00Yeah.
30:02But you're right.
30:02If you're a player behind him, and whether you like him or not,
30:05you knew you were going to get an effort.
30:08You know, that Braves series, for example, when you guys beat the Braves,
30:12he answered the bell.
30:13And so if you're a player, it's kind of a comfort zone to play behind him.
30:18Right, Nick?
30:18Oh, absolutely.
30:19He's fun to watch.
30:21He's fun to play behind him because he spots that 95-mile-an-hour fastball,
30:25the split finger drop, you know, three feet.
30:29He had a nasty slider.
30:31He knew how to pitch inside.
30:32But the one thing he did to perfection is he could paint that outside corn
30:37with the best of them, with the best of them.
30:40Yeah.
30:41Yep.
30:42One of the best big-game pitchers – one of the best big-game pitchers you're ever going to see.
30:46I mean, he's one of those guys you want to have the ball when it's a big game.
30:50I'm going to ask you this question about a manager because we get through various stages here.
30:55And, like, Charlie Manuel was a perfect manager for that particular team in 2008
30:59that won the championship.
31:00Fregosi was probably a perfect manager for his guys in 93.
31:05Tell me why.
31:05Do you see the guys on that team with the different personalities?
31:11Bye.
31:13So what does a manager have to do to read his club?
31:16What was it?
31:17Some of the people – the papers in Atlanta, a bunch of gypsy champs and thieves is what we were.
31:22You know, that's what they said we were.
31:24You know, but he was one of the best that I think with the personality of getting, you know,
31:28to communicate with the different people.
31:30He knew how to do that.
31:31But it was – I mean, I never had a manager like that.
31:35And I played for Bobby, too.
31:37And Bobby – Bobby was good, but Fregosi was the best at that.
31:40And no one being able to get – and get through to his guys to get him to play.
31:46You know?
31:46And how would he do that?
31:48He would just read your personality, whether you needed a kick in the butt or be left alone?
31:53Well, I'll tell you what.
31:54Fregosi was good.
31:55I mean, he was honest.
31:57He was straightforward.
31:58He didn't sugarcoat it, you know.
31:59And his tone, the way he talked to you.
32:02He didn't talk at you.
32:04He talked – he just – you know, he talked with you, you know.
32:07And when he's getting a point across, I know with me, you know, being a younger guy,
32:12he had me – when he first took over, I mean, he was young coming up in there, you know.
32:16And it's about, you know, challenging your young guys to be better sometimes, you know,
32:22not without hurting their feelings too much.
32:24But sometimes you need to be taken up by the collar sometimes.
32:28And I think he had a good core of coaches around him for that too.
32:32One of the guys in particular, I think, what Fregosi did so well,
32:36they had there was John Vukovic.
32:38I miss that.
32:39I miss that.
32:39I miss both of them dearly.
32:41But John really, really made a difference in me.
32:43He helped me grow up to be a man, really, on the baseball field and challenged me.
32:47Because he wasn't going to let me go down that other road.
32:50You think you're – when you're going good, you think you're bigger than the game itself.
32:53He said, that wasn't going to fly with John Vukovic.
32:56And he said, I love you too much with that.
32:58And he said, man, you're going to go to war.
32:59That's what he told me.
33:01He jumped me pretty good.
33:03So, that made – and I love the man for it.
33:05You know, you look back and look at the things that changed you a little bit.
33:08That was one of the – one of the men that changed you, along with Fregosi.
33:12Let's talk about both of your paths to get to that 93 team.
33:15And Mickey came – obviously, he came through the system.
33:18And that really wasn't a system team as much as they – a collection of guys
33:24that Lee Thomas went out and got.
33:25So, when you got up to the Phillies from the minor leagues and you looked at that team,
33:31what was your impression of what was going to happen?
33:34Because 92 was a bad year.
33:36All of a sudden, 93 comes around.
33:38You get these guys.
33:39Nobody has any idea how you guys are going to gel and play.
33:42It turned out everybody had their best season.
33:44They came together.
33:44But when you're coming up through that system –
33:48what kind of nation did you think you were joining, Nick?
33:52One that hadn't won in a while, for sure.
33:55I mean – but, you know, when you're a young player in the minor leagues,
34:00you're just trying to go out and make an impression.
34:03That's your big – your big thing.
34:05You just want to get to the big leagues.
34:06I don't think you're really concerned with, is the team good, is the team bad.
34:11You just want to get to the big leagues and stay there.
34:13And I was pretty fortunate.
34:15I got to the big leagues in just over two years.
34:18And the Phillies had traded Tommy Herr in September and out of the September call-up.
34:23But it was – I loved – you know, I hated the Phillies growing up
34:28because I grew up in Pittsburgh.
34:29I was a huge Pirates fan.
34:31You know how the Phillies went at it in the 70s and 80s.
34:34They couldn't stand each other.
34:35But, you know, I couldn't be happier with this organization.
34:40And for me, the biggest part of this organization was Dave Montgomery.
34:44He had a huge impact on my life.
34:47He still does.
34:48And we miss him every day.
34:50But he really taught me a lot of things about the Philly way
34:53and taught about, you know, giving back to the community, you know,
34:58dealing with the media, all kind of different things.
35:00And this is a great organization because of him.
35:04All right, the people that are on the Zoom chat, if you have a question,
35:07feel free to speak up or you can type your question in.
35:11Tommy, your path to the Phillies that year, kind of interesting
35:14because you were obviously a highly tallied prospect with the Braves.
35:18And you came here kind of on a – after being injured,
35:23and this was a chance to resuscitate your career.
35:26Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you came as a player to be named
35:29in the – when they got Dale Murphy from the Braves.
35:32You came along that year, right?
35:34Am I right about that?
35:35That's what you said.
35:36I was the guy to be named later.
35:37You were the guy to be named later with the acquisition of Dale Murphy.
35:41But you were a highly tallied prospect, if not for the injury.
35:46So you came here.
35:47It was kind of a new lease on life for you as a pitcher here.
35:50How did you put that together?
35:52You were finally healthy, and what turned it around for you?
35:56I'll tell you, it comes from the Braves organization, and I'd like that.
35:59I mean, obviously, the Braves organization is a great organization too.
36:03They draft some good athletes.
36:05I mean, not just in general, but, I mean, pitchers they do draft,
36:09it seems to be they're good athletes, all-around athletes.
36:12You know, they can handle the bat.
36:14They can do the little things and being a National League pitcher.
36:19But you find yourself sometimes – you know, I was drafted out of high school.
36:23I was a first-round pick.
36:24So people sort of mature, I guess, the way I look at it,
36:29I look at it at different rates a little bit.
36:32Physically, I was a man.
36:34Mentally, I was a little maybe slower developing.
36:38And what I needed to do to play at that high level,
36:43you can sometimes see the attitude in me now when I start talking about pitching
36:47and stuff, I didn't have that, you know, at the beginning.
36:51I was more, you know, humble, didn't want to step on nobody's, you know,
36:54shoes or hit anybody type thing.
36:57You know, even though I had a pretty good arm and got drafted where I did,
37:01I had to learn to pitch with that little, you know, vinegar in me.
37:05And it took a little bit to get that.
37:08And when I got it finally, it was – I was on the verge –
37:12you know, I was on the verge of being out, you know, with the Braves.
37:15And that's what sort of happened a little bit.
37:17I read the writing on the wall.
37:19And it changed me.
37:21I was – I mature – it helped me mature.
37:24And also, I got what I needed about that situation to get that little bit of
37:30vinegar in me and use it in the right way.
37:34Not outwardly, but use it, you know, to attack the hitters with
37:39and use that aggression, you know, that I needed to get because I didn't pitch
37:43with that.
37:43So, you hear guys talk about, you know, when they – you know, turning on the switch
37:47and when they crossed the white lines, it was sort of like that a little bit.
37:53You know, because that's what I needed was a little bit of vinegar in me
37:56and pitch like that.
37:58So, when I got traded, it was just at the right time because we – you know,
38:02look at the Braves organization.
38:03We had a boatload of guys.
38:05You know, you had Smoltz and Glavins and Pete Smith and Avery and Merker
38:09and, you know, a lot of guys with great arms, you know,
38:12and along with Zane Smith and stuff that were there at the time that we got the –
38:17you know, that was – I was sort of getting pushed back a little bit
38:20because I wasn't necessarily pitching the greatest.
38:22But I still had, I think, ability.
38:24That's why, you know, sometimes a new lease on life or a change in scenery
38:29is a good thing because I believed I could do it
38:33and the Braves wanted me to pitch one way with a breaking ball
38:36and I felt like I needed to do it another way.
38:39And I finally told them, I'm going to do it my way.
38:41And it wasn't – you know, a month later I was traded.
38:43You know, but it was – but it was the best decision I ever made.
38:47I manned up and I said, I'm going to throw this.
38:50You know, this is the breaking ball I'm going to throw.
38:52And I felt, you know, throwing it between a curveball and a slider,
38:55I wanted to throw a slider because I could throw it behind an account for a strike
38:59and I had just learned it.
39:00So it was getting better.
39:02And I had more confidence in it than I had a curveball I've been trying to throw
39:06for three years or four years.
39:08You know, so I took it upon myself to do that.
39:11And I tell you what, it was the best decision I ever made
39:13because I ended up – my curveball got better from it.
39:15I didn't – you know, because I had another breaking ball.
39:20And, you know, I got a new lease on life.
39:23And my attitude was right when I come over here.
39:25So I got a chance to pitch.
39:27You know, you should get your foot in it.
39:29When they say that door opened, don't let it shut.
39:31Stick your foot in it.
39:32And that's exactly what I did.
39:33All right, we have a couple questions from the people on the Zoom chat here.
39:36Of course, the Zoom chat is courtesy of T-Mobile,
39:40your ticket to the Phillies with America's largest 5G network.
39:44First question from Mike.
39:45Mike, at what point – Mike's asked, at what point did you guys know
39:50that you were going to be a playoff contender in 1993?
39:53You already told the spring training story.
39:54The season started out, and you guys were on a pretty good run,
39:58starting out in Houston.
39:59When – exactly – at what point of the season did you think you guys
40:03were a playoff contender and maybe a World Series contender?
40:06For me, there were two games.
40:08We went out on the West Coast in May, and we played the Padres and Dodgers.
40:12And the last game of the series to get the Padres,
40:15Milt Thompson leaps over the fence to save a grand slam.
40:18We end up winning that game.
40:19And then this night, I dived for a ball up the middle that Sharperson hit.
40:25It kept double up Mike Piazza at second base with Mitch on the hill,
40:29and we win that game.
40:30So it was back-to-back games.
40:31We probably should have lost and ended up winning.
40:35And I think it was like 35-12 or something like that, 35.
40:41I don't even know the exact numbers.
40:42But from that point on, I knew that we had a really good team.
40:45It was going to be a special team because when you're winning games like that,
40:49you know good is happening.
40:52And, you know, the dunking grand slam off of Lee Smith.
40:55Oh, that's amazing.
40:56The Brian Hickerson game against the Giants at home,
40:59and we're down 7-0, and Wes Jamerland hits an absolute P-rod at his face,
41:04and he just sticks his glove up and stabs it, and he stares into the dugout
41:07and slams the ball down in front of us.
41:09And we come back and win that game.
41:11I mean, when you're winning games like that,
41:13you know it's going to be a special season.
41:14So, Tommy, how about you?
41:16When did you feel that that was going to happen?
41:20Oh, man.
41:24Probably after the All-Star break.
41:27I mean, I look back.
41:28I mean, you start in that September push.
41:30There was a series late with the – because I know it's like throwing a no-hitter.
41:35I mean, it's not over to Tushy Sings, man.
41:38You can have two strikes on the last batter, and you can give up a hit.
41:41But there was a series with Montreal, and they were making a run at us.
41:45You know, it was – I can't remember if it was late August or 1st of September.
41:49Mick, I don't know if you remember that.
41:51It was early September.
41:52We had a big game up there like that, a series up in Montreal,
41:57and they were making a push.
41:58They got within like three games or so, I think.
42:01And we had a game up there where – I mean, Mitch ended up coming in late in the game.
42:07I know.
42:08I was starting it.
42:09I started and went into the eighth and had two – I gave up two broken bat hits
42:14with one out and had like a 12-pitching bat against Will Cordero,
42:20and he ended up hitting a three-run homer off of me to make it 5-4.
42:25And it was the loudest place I think I'd ever heard.
42:28You know, it had like 54,000 people in there of all places in Montreal
42:33because they had the top on it.
42:36And it was the loudest place I'd ever heard.
42:39And Mitch come in in the ninth and abruptly does a Mitch – basically a Mitch thing.
42:44Bases loaded.
42:46Bases loaded, nobody out.
42:47Bases loaded, you know, walks – I mean, he gives up a hit, walks a couple –
42:50hits a guy, walks a guy or something like that.
42:53Bases loaded.
42:54It's a pop-up to the infield, strikeout, you know, whatever,
42:58and it gets out of the bases loaded jam.
43:00We win 5-4.
43:01You know, to separate and give us that another game separate.
43:04To me, I mean, because that's the way I look at it.
43:06I didn't count my chicken before the head, but I knew we had a special club.
43:10But I thought that was really there at the end, that push,
43:13that winning a game like that.
43:15But, you know, it's what Mitch did all – I mean, he did a lot in his career.
43:20I mean, not just that year, but in general.
43:23I mean, it was never over.
43:25I mean, it looked like they were going to score to tie it and possibly win it.
43:29But we win anyway.
43:30Mitch had that knack about it, you know.
43:32All right.
43:33So, we have Jeremy on Zoom, speaking of Mitch,
43:36who wants to ask the question that you guys all read,
43:38and we all remember, and it was the horror moment.
43:43So, the question is, what was your reaction when he chose Mitch
43:49to go into that game six in the National League Championship Series?
43:55He'd done it all year.
43:56So, there was no reaction.
43:59That's what got us there.
44:01And that's what we were going to go with.
44:03And, you know, you can look back in the baseball season.
44:09And if Roger Mason stays in that game and gives up a three-run home run,
44:13everybody's going to say, well, how can you not bring in Mitch there?
44:15So, I'm not going to go there.
44:17It is what it is.
44:21He just happened to make a bad pitch.
44:23He made a pitch.
44:24He wanted to go up and away, and it went down and in, and it happened.
44:28So, yeah, I guess the question is, since we all knew he was kind of running
44:35out of, it was like a battery running out of energy at that particular time,
44:39didn't have the same velocity.
44:41And so, I guess the second-guessing comes from, well,
44:45he just wasn't Mitch at that point.
44:47So, I mean, you look at, look at today's game, look at, you know,
44:52look at the pitching staff that they have now, just in a regular year.
44:56They're carrying a 13-man staff, right, Mick?
44:59Yeah, at least.
45:00Back then, we carried 10.
45:03Five starters, five relievers.
45:06You know, so that bullpen, those guys in the bullpen down there,
45:10a lot of times they're getting up.
45:13A lot of more appearances and stuff like that.
45:15Mitch, I mean, it wasn't just Mitch that was running on low fuel, you know,
45:19down there.
45:20But it's not about how good you are when you're at your best.
45:22It's how can you survive and get by when you're not.
45:25It's like your golf game, you know.
45:28I mean, if you hit it down the middle and on the green,
45:30five people in the cup every time, hey, the game's pretty easy.
45:33It's when you do it the other way, can you survive.
45:36It's the same way in baseball.
45:37Yeah, I pretty much do the way you first described it.
45:40Yeah.
45:42It's an easy game.
45:43All right.
45:44So, do we have any – we're good?
45:47All right.
45:47Listen, this has been fun, man.
45:49I love it.
45:50Thanks, you guys.
45:51Thanks to Tommy Green and Mickey Mordini for doing this for us.
45:56And I hope everybody that was on the Zoom chat enjoyed it.
45:59And thanks to our friends at T-Mobile, your ticket to the Philippines,
46:02to America's largest 5G network.
46:04Thanks, guys.
46:04We really appreciate it.
46:05Thanks, Chris.
46:06Enjoyed it.
46:06Enjoyed it.
46:08All right, guys.
46:08Have a good night, everybody.
46:09Have a good night.
46:09Have a good night.
46:09Have a good night.
46:09Have a good night.
46:13Have a good night.
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